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ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Sep-12-2016, 05:08
Are there any good accounts on how some of these large bombing operations looked in WW2?

I've read numerous accounts of He111s or B17's going out by the hundreds to carpet bomb an area, but it sounds like a logistical nightmare trying to taxi, takeoff, form up, formation fly, and land. Especially with the accounts of 500+ planes... I would almost expect they would fly in separate formations or in waves, and have to take off from separate airfields and rendezvous.

I'm just kind of curious. WW2 was fought on a ridiculously large scale that it's difficult to comprehend. (Especially some of the Eastern Front fighting... 3 million men around Kursk... jeeze)

Anyone have some accounts of some of the (seemingly) mundane details of large bombing operations?

ATAG_Ezzie
Sep-12-2016, 06:29
NS,

If you are interested in the intellectual side of the Allied bombing campaign then this book is highly recommended. Explains how Intel etc was used to develop the tgting strategies.

https://www.amazon.com/Targeting-Third-Reich-Intelligence-Campaigns/dp/0700616829

And then read this if interested in the other side of the fence - https://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-Over-Germany-Defense-Reich/dp/1848327412

Ezzie

lil_head
Sep-12-2016, 09:04
I read a book called Lancaster men and it describes most of the raids as a bomber 'stream'. Not a formation as such but they would take off and head for the target from their different aerodromes and converge that way on the target. Raids would come in dribs and drabs over a few hours at varying heights etc. Of course these are mostly night raids.
I don't think they rendezvoued so much. Just took off and flew in the same direction at the designated heights etc

ATAG_Vampire
Sep-12-2016, 09:53
Hi lil_head!

See if you can get your hands on a copy of these.

'The Six Year Offensive - RAF Bomber Command 1939-45' by Ken Delve & Peter Jacobs

'Bomber Squadrons of the RAF and their Aircraft' by Philip J R Moyes. It contains squadron histories, aircraft codes and types, airfield locations etc. etc. Many rare photos as well.

For the USAAF try 'The Mighty Eighth' by Roger R Freeman. Contains an enormous amount of info on the Eighth Air Force, its operations, aircraft makings etc. etc. Also hundreds of photos. :dthumb:

~S~ :salute:

AKA_Knutsac
Sep-12-2016, 17:24
I've got a personal interest in the 303rd Bomb Group and have done a bit of research into a single 8th AF "maximum effort" bombing operation in which they were involved. I've begun summarizing the details of this mission, which may provide an idea of how they were organized...

Over the course of August 15, 1944, the U.S. Eighth Air Force dispatched 932 B-17 and B-24 bombers (and 443 fighter escorts) (in daytime) and the RAF dispatched 985 Lancaster and Halifax bombers and 19 Mosquitos (at night) to attack 20 airfields in Germany, the Netherlands, and Belgium.

ORGANIZATION

The U.S. Eighth Air Force 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Bombardment Divisions (BDs) all participated in this operation. The 1st BD (B-17s) was assigned to attack three Luftwaffe airfields in Germany, one near Cologne and two near Frankfurt. The 2nd BD (B-24s) was tasked with bombing five airfields in northwest Germany, and the 3rd BD (B-17s) was assigned three airfields in northwest Germany and the Netherlands.

The 1st BD was organized into three combat bombardment wings (CBWs) made up of six individual bombardment groups (BGs). The 1st CBW comprised 108 B-17s from the 91st, 381st, and 398th BGs. Their target was Ostheim Airfield near Cologne. The 40th and 41st CBWs were assigned deeper targets near Frankfurt. The 40th CBW comprised 65 B-17s from the 92nd and 306th BGs. Their target was the Eschborn Airfield northwest of Frankfurt. Only one bomb group flew as the 41st CBW; the 303rd BG "Hells Angels" sent 38 B-17s to bomb Wiesbaden Airfield located to the west of Frankfurt.

This was mission 229 for the 303rd BG, and all squadrons participated. The 359th Bombardment Squadron (BS) led the 303rd BG this mission, with the 358th and 360th BSs forming the low and high squadrons, respectively. The 427th BS contributed 10 aircraft to the mission, divided between the lead, high, and low squadrons.

FORMATION

The BGs were each assigned a different base, so all over the East of England the groups assembled. After taking off, each aircraft joined their assigned flight element, then the flight elements assembled into squadron formation. When the three (typically) squadrons were assembled, they joined together in group "box" formation, with a lead squadron, a high squadron, and a low squadron. When the different bomb groups were assembled, they flew carefully planned routes to arrive at a rendezvous point at a specific time and heading. The designated lead bomb group for a CBW would pass over the point first, followed by the other groups in assigned order. This process was repeated as the BGs making up the other CBWs arrived at the rendezvous point at the assigned time. When the assembly process was complete, all assigned CBWs were in trail formation headed toward the continent. This was the "bomber stream". Once over the continent, the various CBWs diverted from the bomber stream at predetermined points and proceeded to their assigned targets. While the individual BSs maintained relatively tight formation, the various CBWs could become stretched out, often with many miles between them. This was problimatic, as at any particular time only one fighter group (FG) was assigned to provide cover for the CBW (a topic worthy its own post).

Pretty dry reading, but I hope it helps describe the complexity of these operations.

Cheers,

AKA Knutsac

HenryLuebberstedt
Sep-13-2016, 05:01
To get a complete picture of bombing operations over germany you should read this book: The Fire by Jörg Friedrich (https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Bombing-Germany-1940-1945/dp/0231133812/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473756293&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fire+friedrich)

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Sep-14-2016, 03:57
Lol not dry at all.

A lot of the books I've read or documentaries I've watched sort of end with the "And this battle had 932 B17s. Now moving on..."

Skipping the absurdly difficult coordination of it all.

I'm going to have to hunt a few of these books down now, thanks for the info!