4K Monitor and flying with a bag over your head

[ATAG_SKUD]

Which is worse?
Now my eyesight isn't the greatest but I've tried the contact spotting mission and if I use a magnifying glass I can see about 11 of the supposed 16 contacts visible.

Sorry for the winge but one thing I would really, really love to see fixed is the contact spotting range be made independent monitor or resolution setting. Chatting with my fellow flyers it seems that they have by and large ditched their fancy 4k monitors for TV monitors or have lowed their resolution down into the teens due to the limited contact viewing range afforded by the 4K monitors. They are calling out contacts over Hawkinge from Deal. For me, at over 4000 meters contacts are absolutely not there.
So how does CLoD translate aircraft into pixels? Does an aircraft at a certain range have a certain pixel count? So big fat, low-rez pixels are 8-10 times the size of my teensy 4K monitor pixels? Seems like a savvy programmer could see what resolution you are running and compensate pixel count so that the image size remained constant for all resolutions if that were the case.
It would be interesting to compare some identical screenshots with monitors of differing resolution.
Seems a shame with the beautiful graphics this game has to offer that you have to turn the resolution all way down to be able to see anything at distance.

Anyway, This fix is on my wishlist for TF 5.0.
Thanks for reading and tolerating my winge....:salute:

[Pans]

I fully support and second this wish should it be within the capabilities of TFS to implement, if only to be able to play the game at a comparably modest 1920x1080!

[Continu0]

I fully support and second this wish should it be within the capabilities of TFS to implement, if only to be able to play the game at a comparably modest 1920x1080!

But at a 1920x1080-resolution, you shouldn't have any problems.... ?

[DerDa]

Don't worry, you are not alone.
(with bad eye-sight and spotting problems :))
I switched to a big TV myself, but with or without it I never saw more than 11 contacts in the spotting mission.

If they are that distant it is less of a problem. I start to worry when Tab-7-1 keeps telling me "Enemy fighters at 2 miles distance" and I just see nice blue sky all around ... for a short while.
But I don' believe this is monitor related :-)

[ATAG_SKUD]

Don't worry, you are not alone.
(with bad eye-sight and spotting problems :))
I switched to a big TV myself, but with or without it I never saw more than 11 contacts in the spotting mission.

If they are that distant it is less of a problem. I start to worry when Tab-7-1 keeps telling me "Enemy fighters at 2 miles distance" and I just see nice blue sky all around ... for a short while.
But I don' believe this is monitor related :-)

Great... now I got you and the wife calling me a blind 'ole fart:grandpa

[Baffin]

I play at 4K on a 55" screen and recognize the shortcomings of small pixel size. The problem is, I refuse to sacrifice the picture quality for a larger initial contact size. I used to play on a high resolution Dell 30" monitor (2560 x 1600) which has a most excellent picture, and a pixel size even smaller than the 4K TV, so when I went to the TV, contacts became easier to pick up. It has to be a matter of personal preference as to which level of detail you will find best.

With all that said, I have a method for optimizing contact recognition, no matter what display you have. This involves the seating distance from the screen. Most of us seniors have "Bit the bullet" and paid for some overpriced reading glasses (with the old-age prescription) for muddling through the morning paper. Some of us have taken this a step further by ordering a diopter adjusted pair of glasses that permit sitting as close as possible to the screen to allow clearly seeing a single pixel. With the right glasses, we can then see the "Grid" that makes up the screen, and therefore clearly see a single pixel sized object. (The smallest possible contact). For example, the distance from screen to eyeball for me is 22 inches...

The constraint on how close you can get to the display is simply physical. How close can the chair move forward and how far can you pull the display screen towards your eyes. Finally, you have to allow for your TrackIR camera mount distance which can prevent really close up distances. Anyway, once you get the closest distance figured out, visit the optometrist with a pair of old frames from the seventies (Really BIG frames) and have him put your prescription with the new distance in those frames. The difference is a pleasant surprise! :dazed!:

EDIT: My first "Close-up" glasses, based on measured distance, were not right. So on the follow-up visit, he had me sit in front of his office computer at my desired distance. He then held up diopter lenses until I saw what I was looking for. Second try glasses are perfect!

[ATAG_SKUD]

I play at 4K on a 55" screen and recognize the shortcomings of small pixel size. The problem is, I refuse to sacrifice the picture quality for a larger initial contact size. I used to play on a high resolution Dell 30" monitor (2560 x 1600) which has a most excellent picture, and a pixel size even smaller than the 4K TV, so when I went to the TV, contacts became easier to pick up. It has to be a matter of personal preference as to which level of detail you will find best.

With all that said, I have a method for optimizing contact recognition, no matter what display you have. This involves the seating distance from the screen. Most of us seniors have "Bit the bullet" and paid for some overpriced reading glasses (with the old-age prescription) for muddling through the morning paper. Some of us have taken this a step further by ordering a diopter adjusted pair of glasses that permit sitting as close as possible to the screen to allow clearly seeing a single pixel. With the right glasses, we can then see the "Grid" that makes up the screen, and therefore clearly see a single pixel sized object. (The smallest possible contact). For example, the distance from screen to eyeball for me is 22 inches...

The constraint on how close you can get to the display is simply physical. How close can the chair move forward and how far can you pull the display screen towards your eyes. Finally, you have to allow for your TrackIR camera mount distance which can prevent really close up distances. Anyway, once you get the closest distance figured out, visit the optometrist with a pair of old frames from the seventies (Really BIG frames) and have him put your prescription with the new distance in those frames. The difference is a pleasant surprise! :dazed!:

EDIT: My first "Close-up" glasses, based on measured distance, were not right. So on the follow-up visit, he had me sit in front of his office computer at my desired distance. He then held up diopter lenses until I saw what I was looking for. Second try glasses are perfect!


I have a 34" Acer Predator and run at 3840 x 2160. I sit at 26" from the end of my beak to the screen. Try the quick mission "Aerial Battle over Dover" in the 109. As you fly over the 88's straight and level look down and to your right- zoomed in and staring. I see 4 inbound Hurris go from nothing to microscopic specs of dust and then less than 5 seconds later at about 2000 m pop into plane looking blobs. These plane looking blobs are about the smallest size I could reasonably be expected to see while scanning for contacts. It amazes me that people can see contacts at 8 or even 10 Km.

I don't wear prescrip glasses- always had good far distance vision. I wear 2.0 readers now cause I'm old and spent too much time playing combat sims:). I think I'll take you up on the advice to get some glasses calibrated for 26". I don't think I can sit any closer than that as its already enough real estate to scan at this distance.
However, this brings us back to my original point... The contact spotting in the game should not be dependent on the monitor and for sure we shouldn't get penalized for enjoying hi-resolution graphics.

[TURK_Enlem]

Did you ever try costum resolutions may suit better to your needs?

It is easy to do via Nvidia Control Panel.

[ATAG_SKUD]

Did you ever try costum resolutions may suit better to your needs?

It is easy to do via Nvidia Control Panel.


Hi Turk
I tried a couple of lower settings but weird things happened like only parts of my plane showed up others were missing.

[TURK_Enlem]

Firstly you should keep 9/16 for new resolutions in NvCP. That is the formula: 9/16 = Height/Width

For example: if you choose height=1620 the width will be 2880 (half point of 4k between 1080p)

Then you should choose this resolution from Cliffs's graphics menu.

It should be OK.

don't pass 60 hz for now..

Have to go... Keep us informed :thumbsup:

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

The game is similar to Il2 1946 which I think is designed for 1024×576ish?

It doesn't render a 3d model at distance, just a 2d pixel. A single pixel at 4k is much harder to spot than 1080p. I remember I originally started playing '46 at 1920x1080 and was frustrated with the game because I could rarely, if ever, spot distant contacts. At least until I was shown the settings, and that it was better to run the game at low res.

I used to bounce around between 1280×720 to 1600x900 to play '46

I find CloD is still pretty good running at 1920x1080, but anything above that makes contacts very hard to spot, because the distant contact icons get very small. I still bounce between 720p and 1080p to play the game.

Hopefully the system is improved with future patches.

I would recommend trying a slightly lower resolution in the mean time. It will make the game much more comfortable to play.

[PreyStalker]

This is a handy little chart for experimenting with screen resolution sizes:


https://pacoup.com/2011/06/12/list-of-true-169-resolutions/

I play using 2048 x 1152 on a 32inch tv and it's my best compromise for quality v contact spotting. Plus, my gpu seems happier when it's working harder.

I can spot faint dots at 14k and it's a huge advantage for my style of fighting...

:devilish:

[ATAG_Highseas]

Which is worse?
Now my eyesight isn't the greatest but I've tried the contact spotting mission and if I use a magnifying glass I can see about 11 of the supposed 16 contacts visible.

Sorry for the winge but one thing I would really, really love to see fixed is the contact spotting range be made independent monitor or resolution setting. Chatting with my fellow flyers it seems that they have by and large ditched their fancy 4k monitors for TV monitors or have lowed their resolution down into the teens due to the limited contact viewing range afforded by the 4K monitors. They are calling out contacts over Hawkinge from Deal. For me, at over 4000 meters contacts are absolutely not there.
So how does CLoD translate aircraft into pixels? Does an aircraft at a certain range have a certain pixel count? So big fat, low-rez pixels are 8-10 times the size of my teensy 4K monitor pixels? Seems like a savvy programmer could see what resolution you are running and compensate pixel count so that the image size remained constant for all resolutions if that were the case.
It would be interesting to compare some identical screenshots with monitors of differing resolution.
Seems a shame with the beautiful graphics this game has to offer that you have to turn the resolution all way down to be able to see anything at distance.

Anyway, This fix is on my wishlist for TF 5.0.
Thanks for reading and tolerating my winge....:salute:

I leave my resolution maxed.

No idea if if gives other an advantage, I very much doubt it though as nobody is shooting me down if I cant see them yet.

My main reason though is that I'm damned if im losing all the eye candy to see a dot a few miles earlier. That's what radar is for !


EDIT:

"I very much doubt it though as nobody is shooting me down if I cant see them yet."


Yeah right !!!

Everybody is shooting me down because I cant see them yet !!

what I meant was... "before I could make out their plane if I was looking the right way."

[IIJG27Rich]

Which is worse?
Now my eyesight isn't the greatest but I've tried the contact spotting mission and if I use a magnifying glass I can see about 11 of the supposed 16 contacts visible.

Sorry for the winge but one thing I would really, really love to see fixed is the contact spotting range be made independent monitor or resolution setting. Chatting with my fellow flyers it seems that they have by and large ditched their fancy 4k monitors for TV monitors or have lowed their resolution down into the teens due to the limited contact viewing range afforded by the 4K monitors. They are calling out contacts over Hawkinge from Deal. For me, at over 4000 meters contacts are absolutely not there.
So how does CLoD translate aircraft into pixels? Does an aircraft at a certain range have a certain pixel count? So big fat, low-rez pixels are 8-10 times the size of my teensy 4K monitor pixels? Seems like a savvy programmer could see what resolution you are running and compensate pixel count so that the image size remained constant for all resolutions if that were the case.
It would be interesting to compare some identical screenshots with monitors of differing resolution.
Seems a shame with the beautiful graphics this game has to offer that you have to turn the resolution all way down to be able to see anything at distance.

Anyway, This fix is on my wishlist for TF 5.0.
Thanks for reading and tolerating my winge....:salute:

Skud do what I do..Go up to the dollar store and buy yourself a pair of 100s 200s our what ever it takes glasses. They do wonders for my cheap eyesight :thumbsup: :salute:

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

I have a 19" (that's 482mm) 1440x900 monitor on which I can see contacts with relative ease up to about 11-13km. I still feel like people can see way further than me though...

There's also apparently a few other fixes to contact visibility, like lowering anti-aliasing settings or even turning it off - going from x8 to x2 had a noticeable effect on how far I saw contacts.
One can also mess around with their contrast, brightness and gamma on the monitor settings although i found it only marginally increased visibility.

(Just measured Deal > Hawkinge distance at 21km. That's quite something...)

[Pans]

But at a 1920x1080-resolution, you shouldn't have any problems.... ?

You'd think? I've got a 24" monitor and I can barely see a thing at that resolution. I have to drop the game to 1600x900 to start having a chance.

The point is, the game should ideally work so that it scales contact size to resolution. An acceptably spottable distant contact of 2 pixels on a potato at 1024x768 gives a significant advantage over someone squinting and trying to spot 2 pixels on a 4K monitor.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Salute

Unfortunately we can't change the size of the contacts to scale to your resolution.

It requires too much code work and effort.

If you have a small screen, you will need to run a lower resolution... if you have a large screen, you can run a high resolution.

It's the same dilemma all flight simulation games or tank vs tank games face... do you want the eye candy or the effectiveness. It is particularly difficult in Flight Sims.

But that is exactly the nature of the real combat environment... it was extremely difficult to spot enemy aircraft.

[ATAG_SKUD]

Firstly you should keep 9/16 for new resolutions in NvCP. That is the formula: 9/16 = Height/Width

For example: if you choose height=1620 the width will be 2880 (half point of 4k between 1080p)

Then you should choose this resolution from Cliffs's graphics menu.

It should be OK.

don't pass 60 hz for now..

Have to go... Keep us informed :thumbsup:

I tried exactly half 1920 x 1080 x 60 hz and contact spotting much easier, as expected, but got some horrible tearing across the front windscreen. The monitor is G-synced at 60 hz. I think I'll just hold out hope that someone at TFS is listening and taking note. :nw:
and I'll get some new glasses:-)
and my other solution is to form up with someone that can see!

[TURK_Enlem]

I tried exactly half 1920 x 1080 x 60 hz and contact spotting much easier, as expected, but got some horrible tearing across the front windscreen. The monitor is G-synced at 60 hz. I think I'll just hold out hope that someone at TFS is listening and taking note. :nw:
and I'll get some new glasses:-)
and my other solution is to form up with someone that can see!

I believe that the tearing problem can be solved some way such as: g-sync on/off, Vsync on/off, fast sync, adaptive sync combinations/experimentation. Don't surrender easily. :)

Also proper glasses is wise and necessary way to go...

Good luck...

:salute:

[ATAG_SKUD]

Salute

Unfortunately we can't change the size of the contacts to scale to your resolution.

It requires too much code work and effort.

If you have a small screen, you will need to run a lower resolution... if you have a large screen, you can run a high resolution.

It's the same dilemma all flight simulation games or tank vs tank games face... do you want the eye candy or the effectiveness. It is particularly difficult in Flight Sims.

But that is exactly the nature of the real combat environment... it was extremely difficult to spot enemy aircraft.

Well I'm bummed to hear that. I take it you guys have studied this already.:salute:
Oh well new glasses it is and I think I'll get tab-7-1 macro'd .

[IIJG27Rich]

https://s3-media2.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/91iAe9kyKRJiU6ERavemfg/ls.jpg :salute:


They work

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Salute

Unfortunately we can't change the size of the contacts to scale to your resolution.

It requires too much code work and effort.

If you have a small screen, you will need to run a lower resolution... if you have a large screen, you can run a high resolution.

It's the same dilemma all flight simulation games or tank vs tank games face... do you want the eye candy or the effectiveness. It is particularly difficult in Flight Sims.

But that is exactly the nature of the real combat environment... it was extremely difficult to spot enemy aircraft.

Would it be possible to consider increasing the default dot size to something more reasonably visible on a 1920x1080 resolution? That seems like a fairly standard resolution for most gaming machines if I had to take a guess.

[QB.Creep]

I'm having difficulty spotting enemy plans on my 30" monitor running at 2560x1440. It may have more to do with the fact that I am new CLOD (and flight sims in general). I might try lowering the resolution of the monitor just to give me some help until I'm a little more comfortable with the game. Also considering getting a pair of these and wondering if anyone else uses them for this purpose: https://gunnar.com/product-category/computer-eyewear/

[TURK_Enlem]

You may test (2048x1152) or (2176 x1224) via Nvidia Control panel, and then choose the new resolution from CloD graphics menu.

These glasses are basically for eye strain. I recommend f.lux, a free program: https://justgetflux.com/

:salute:

[davefsgd]

"Seems like a savvy programmer could see what resolution you are running and compensate pixel count so that the image size remained constant for all resolutions if that were the case."



isnt that what they did in il-2 BOS to solve the "low resolution- need to see/identify at long distance" problem?

i might be very wrong, im not a programmer. But the idea seams the same.

[ATAG_Lewis]

I know ATAG_Dave flys with a 50 inch monitor...He's an excellent wingman if you want to know where all the enemy are a 60 seconds before YOU can see it...

Conclusion - Fly real close to Dave

[ATAG_Dave]

I know ATAG_Dave flys with a 50 inch monitor...He's an excellent wingman if you want to know where all the enemy are a 60 seconds before YOU can see it...

Conclusion - Fly real close to Dave

Lewis - Ive told you a million times before - dont exaggerate :)

[ATAG_Highseas]

For me... well....

I want to get the best visuals possible... Its why i got this card in the first place

You wont be shooting at anything unless is totally identifiable... and similarly nobody is going to be shooting back from 1 pixel on the screen range...

They wont be doing that until they are massive obvious plane shapes.

Sure, you may well see the enemy earlier with crummy settings, and that's probably great for tracking them post Tab 7 1.

But....

I don't sweat in out on the "lego block graphics for me please" train.

Screw that.