Best news!

[MK.Mr.X]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/ :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Deacon]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=36417


More, from Loft:



Administrator

Administrators

4 posts
Posted Today, 07:45
Dear Pilots,

Today we announced a new partnership between 1C and 777 Studios and the next product in the Sturmovik legacy – IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad.

Both 1C and 777 Studios have entered into this arrangement with the best of intentions, which are to make quality combat flight simulation products that you enjoy (Rise of Flight, IL-2 Sturmovik). Both companies share a deep desire to see the flight-simulation genre succeed and thrive. And both companies have already spent millions of dollars and countless sleepless nights trying to make products that the flight-simulation community loves. We believe our past effortsare an indication that our motivations in this genre are sincere and our dedication to this niche of PC gaming has always been and will remain strong.

This development may come as a surprise to some in the community, but we are not here to argue about it.

By combining the best talent, management and technology we feel that it will be easier to overcome the technical, financial and industry related challenges that are unique to the flight-simulation genre. But it’s still not going to be easy and we still need the community’s support. There is no unlimited budget or endless release schedule. We hope that all of the virtual pilots out there in the community understand the challenges we face and will choose to stand with us in this new enterprise and help us make a brighter future for the entire combat flight-simulation genre.

We’re sure you will have questions about the upcoming product.

Warmest Regards,

The Team
IL-2 Sturmovik
Rise of Flight

[335th_GRAthos]

Hurra! :thumbsup:

~S~

[ATAG_Snapper]

Thanks, gentlemen! I merged the threads to keep comments all in one place.

[ATAG_Septic]

Thanks for the News.

I'm saddened though, I just don't enjoy the RoF engine as much. There's something about the space that the Cliffs engine simulates, that along with all the missing depth and complexity.

I've a glimmer of hope for the new product but doubts about my ability to afford to keep up with any released content. Time will tell.

Sceptic, I mean Septic.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

First to pour cold water?

I'd be very concerned about a DX9 engine for a game to be ready for 2014.
If they're going to rely heavily on the current ROF engine and not give it a major upgrade/ overhaul to bring it's functionality more in line with the current CloD engine then I won't be buying.

[ATAG_Bliss]

This is terrible news for MP and the genre. I may try it just to to use the mission builder and see if its the same crap ROF engine that you can't have 100 objects in a mission.

[Tvrdi]

This is terrible news for MP and the genre. I may try it just to to use the mission builder and see if its the same crap ROF engine that you can't have 100 objects in a mission.

Well Bliss, its an air combat sim after all. I too would like to see that limitation from ROF engine - gone. But if we will have WW2 sim which will perform well, with new content, features, collision models for trees, dynamic realist weather, realistic clouds, regular updates etc..Im all for it. After all what we can lose? In fact I think the ROF will be a looser here since I doubt they will join all their efforts on ROF as it is much smaller niche than it is WW2 (means, development will be focused probably mainly on IL2)...

But now you see Ivan was right about the teams merging....and now we know CLOD is dead and no more support for this engine which is sad too....Sure I feel cheated...

Like I said earlier..let us hold our hands in a circle hihi

[ATAG_Bliss]

I think it's time to mod the shit out of this sim. It's obviously on its own and no support whatsoever.

[eekz]

I asked at IL2:BoS official forums about the future of CloD engine and if there is a possibility to pass the engine to a team of enthusiasts like it was done with old Il2 and DT and B6 answered that there are some copyright difficulties and some other moments with that, but he told that they will probably give more information on the future of CloD engine later.

So there is a minor hope that someday CloD can be handled like old Il2.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

I think it's time to mod the shit out of this sim. It's obviously on its own and no support whatsoever.

Yuppity yup!

Provided the Flight Models/ aircraft damage Models get left until last.
I really could not handle all the histrionics that would precede and proceed-from changes to the aircraft....

[vranac]

This is terrible news for MP and the genre. I may try it just to to use the mission builder and see if its the same crap ROF engine that you can't have 100 objects in a mission.


Yes.Very sad.

Nice move from 1C to squeeze some quick money from Il2 Sturmovik brand. And based on the second grade engine.
It is not question of engines,point is in the payment system.

But there is tiny, tiny bit of hope that 1C could release the code.But even if that happens it will be very hard for someone to dig into code from other programmer.
As I heard from trusted source who spoke with developer of another game who had insight in CloD engine,
it is very compilcated, you change one single parametar a bit,everything changes all around.
That is the reason why they had to rewrite gfx engine and we also saw problems when they started tweaking FM.

[Tvrdi]

I think it's time to mod the shit out of this sim. It's obviously on its own and no support whatsoever.

I doubt they will reveal their engine to anyone...


http://jamsidedown.com/files/2012/06/Store-Closing.jpg

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

But there is tiny, tiny bit of hope that 1C could release the code.

It would be in their commercial interests to keep the code. At the purely commercial level, they need to limit the potential for competition. Releasing their code would create, essentially, a free-ware competitor.

[MadTommy]

I think its bloody great news.

I much prefer the 'environment' in RoF to CloD, but prefer the Clod planes & era.. now i get the best of both.

I've used both editors.. and far prefer the RoF one.. the CloD FMB was/is a horrible bug fest.

I also like the RoF marketing model, works well for me.

I think with the teams combined i can only see a vast improvement and a rosy future. Anything is better than what we had.. I'd lost all faith in Maddox Games and their ability to deliver on the CloD engine, good riddance.

( i am gutted the BoB scenario is dead.. i hope modders can keep it going and improve it)

[ChiefRedCloud]

Jason Williams

Q. Why did 1C choose to partner with 777 Studios?

A. 1C has seen the remarkable quality of ROF and its associated technologies1C also liked 777s ability to be flexible in the marketplace and innovative ideas. 777 Studios has also shown the ability to please its customers and provide excellent communication to the community on development matters.



Q. Why did 777 Studios choose to partner with 1C?

A. 777 Studios decided to work with 1C because they have seen 1Cs dedication to the flight-simulation genre over the years and their willingness to continue to invest in such products when other large publishers do not share the same passion. 1C is known for its dedication to PC hardcore gaming and products like Rig'n'Roll, Space Rangers, Soldiers: Heroes of World War II, Faces of War, Men of War series, Perimeter, Fantasy Wars, Death to Spies, Kings Bounty: The Legend, Kings Bounty: Armored Princess and Kings Bounty: Crossworlds, Off-Road Drive, Real Warfare 2: Northern Crusades, Kings Bounty: Warriors of the North and of course IL-2 Sturmovik series.



Q. What happened to the CLOD development team and the ROF development team?

A. Both teams have been merged into one team (1C Game Studios) that will share one roof and be responsible for both BOS and future ROF development.



Q. Who is managing this new combined development and business team?

A. The former 777 Studios development management team is overseeing the development of both BOS and ROF. Business matters are handled by a joint management team with executives from both companies.



Q. Will ROF development continue and will airplanes and content continue to be made?

A. Yes, ROF development will continue. We are still finishing development of features and content we promised the community earlier in 2012. The Channel Map, two seaplanes and two early-war scouts are still in development and scheduled for release end of 2012 and the beginning of 2013.



Q. Will BOS be based on the Digital Nature engine (777 Studios Technology)?

A. Yes, the Digital Nature engine and associated technologies will be the basis for BOS, but of course work will be done to make it ready for WWII aircraft and other changes to the code will no doubt occur over time. The engine is an ever evolving piece of software.



Q. Why was the Digital Nature engine chosen instead of the CLOD engine?

A. The Digital Nature engine is an advanced game engine that has been developed over several years and powers ROF with great results. Besides being relatively bug free and well-functioning, it has advanced physics, realistic flight-modeling, progressive damage modeling, complex ballistics, detailed environmental modeling, detailed terrain modeling and superb graphics rendering. Above all else it is more modular and flexible than the CLOD engine. It can even support different types of player vehicles from main battle tanks to giant robots. Using the Digital Nature engine will provide users with a well-functioning product at launch that can be brought to market fairly quickly. It can still be further enhanced in the future as needed.



Q. What is the business model for BOS?

A. BOS will have a few different options for new users that will put them in the cockpit and new content added over time after initial launch.The BOS business model will have some similar aspects with ROF, but it will not be identical.



Q. Will you have to pay for new content like airplanes?

A. Of course, additional content once developed will be offered for sale.


Q. Will BOS be classified as an MMO?

A. No, BOS will include both SP and MP game-play options but giving some new unique experiences. We know flight-simmers enjoy both types of game-play.



Q. Will BOS include every imaginable feature and detail the community will want?

A. Unfortunately, no simulation title can have everything the community will want. There is a relatively short window to create and launch BOS. As 777 Studios learned from developing ROF, it is better to start with digestible chunks of features and content that works and add more over time. We also do not want to keep the community waiting for years while we make a large product that may not work as advertised. We prefer to take it one step at a time.



Q. Will content from CLOD be imported and be used in BOS?

A. If any is used, than all previously createdcontent by 1C Company will be used in the future projects with maximum possibilities.


Q. Will BOS install over CLOD as promised by previous management?

A. Sorry it will not, BOS will be based on a completely different engine and be a completely different product line.



http://imageshack.us/a/img441/5968/shake777icy.png

Yes Bliss ..... CloD is officially an Orphan now ...... As you say, MOD the Hell out of it! :thumbsup:

[Catseye]

I think it's time to mod the shit out of this sim. It's obviously on its own and no support whatsoever.

++1

CLOD will be the only BOB sim for the foreseeable future. My hope is that as soon as the new merged group complete their deliberations on what can be ported over, that portions of CLOD be opened up for the modding community.

I can't see any BOB scenario and mid-term European air war being available for at least 5 years.

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Wow,

I did not see this one coming...

I don't see it as a doomsday thing. The RoF engine has a number of features and kinks that weren't fully developed or finished because of the small team size. Hopefully they can dig decent up decent parts of the CloD code and use it to develop the game engine.

I'll be interested to follow this one.

[Arthursmedley]

++1


I can't see any BOB scenario and mid-term European air war being available for at least 5 years.



You are kidding aren't you? Jason is at the controls now. He's interested in making a return on his own investment and that means getting out as much quality content that people want to buy as soon as possible.

What you've got to ask yourself is "What do people who earn their money in dollars, pounds and euros want to fly in a high quality combat sim?"

Thats right; they want Spits, '109's, P-51's, '190, etc, etc.

[Doc]

I'd rather have my nuts squeezed in a vise rather than let 777 touch it.

[Ivank]

Well there you go exactely ... As predicted ! They are now frantically contacting other coders ... because they realise they dont have the manpower to do it in the time frame !

[Doc]

I predict utter failure. A complete meltdown.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I predict utter failure. A complete meltdown.

Yep. I predict a ROF in WWII trim which = a massive let down for MP. We will have a nice 1v1 dogfight game though. Sadly it will cost you a fortune in fuel gauges, ammo, guns, gun sights, compasses, etc.. ROF doesn't even have cock pit damage. They don't even have a trench as an object in the mission builder. Kinda important for WWI don't ya think? This will be an utter failure, but will more than likely play nice. Don't expect it to simulate any part of WWII though. Dogfights in HE111's yippee!

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Nah, it won't be that bad. RoF can handle 75 player servers without lag at the moment. That's better than most games today. I wouldn't be surprised if the engine and interface improve with the boost in manpower.

RoF certainly has some stuff it brings to the table, 3d water, dynamic collision model, atmospheric pressure, turbulence, rain, clouds you can see past 2000m, planes you can see past 1000m, trees you can collide with, Anti-aliasing that works!

RoF recently started to see mods. Modders are starting to work with maps, clouds, 3d objects, and effects.

Worse things could have happened than 777 picking up the project.

Not that anything is going to happen from the get-go. I doubt we'll see anything come of it until after summer.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Nah, it won't be that bad. RoF can handle 75 player servers without lag at the moment. That's better than most games today. I wouldn't be surprised if the engine and interface improve with the boost in manpower.

RoF certainly has some stuff it brings to the table, 3d water, dynamic collision model, atmospheric pressure, turbulence, rain, clouds you can see past 2000m, planes you can see past 1000m, trees you can collide with, Anti-aliasing that works!

RoF recently started to see mods. Modders are starting to work with maps, clouds, 3d objects, and effects.

Worse things could have happened than 777 picking up the project.

Cliffs can handle 125 players with no other objects. The only reason ROF handles those amounts are that they are never in the same spot. Try doing 75 players in ROF in one spot. For a test Squirrel, in ROF, Take 75 humans, (might be able to use AI) and have them all drop bombs at the same time. Watch how fast the game crashes during the explosions. The master browser can only handle requests/information so fast. It overloads, streams too much data and it fails. Then the server fails. All in that order.

I remember having a flyin. We only had 50 people on coms (this was in ROF). And we all decided to drop bombs for a video. We all dove in the same spot one after another and as the bombs started to explode, the game and server simply crashed for all 50 people on the server at the same time. That's not very good considering some WWII fighters could carry almost 50 bombs themselves. I'm not too optimistic about it at all.

I will gladly wait though. But if it's a simply reskinning of the ROF engine, it will be terrible.

[Doc]

I don't know man. Squirrel you've always been an RoF homer. I am just the opposite. I think there isn't anything good going to come of this other than they will try to get the community to accept an inferior WWII sim.

But you don't have near the things going on in RoF as you do this one. Which is why I find most things RoF unappealing in the first place but everyone has their opinion. I own RoF and bought a ton of planes. I bought one recently because I support their and your genre.

But saying that I believe for me this wont even come close to this. Other than you will have a product that will make the average kid happy that wants to make things in a GUI without the codding background. But then again you ain't getting Cliffs.

I don't see any viable WWII sim that touches this unless someone mods the crap out of this one.

And wouldn't that be fun. Competing against a development house like triple 7 with a modded Cliffs that sucks interest away from theirs and ends up threatening them?

Intriguing...

[Dutch]

Bliss, that was then. This is now.

I'm willing to keep an open mind on the thing, but if we take Rise of Flight now, and compare it to Cliffs of Dover I agree completely. But who's to say what'll happen to Rise of Flight before 'early 2014'?

But I don't call it 'Best news', simply because yet again, the Battle of Britain will be shovelled under the carpet. Poor show, old boy. And the idea of flying WWII a/c in the current RoF environment leaves me very cold indeed. But there is the Channel Map to come, which may or may not change people's opinions, maybe even mine.
I'll buy it, and I'll try it out. But it won't be a WWI version of Cliffs, that's for damned sure.

1946 is somehow looking quite attractive today.

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

I still see it as good news. It's better than IL2 vanishing entirely. I also don't see any viable competition. World of War Planes is more of a joke than a sim, and DCS (besides only having one WW2 plane) has no dedicated server software.

I'm definitely up for re-installing 1946 though. I miss the variety of planes that game had to offer. I also just checked and there were 45 people on a server. I would have played it before but I never saw numbers over 20.

[Tvrdi]

Cliffs can handle 125 players with no other objects. The only reason ROF handles those amounts are that they are never in the same spot. Try doing 75 players in ROF in one spot. For a test Squirrel, in ROF, Take 75 humans, (might be able to use AI) and have them all drop bombs at the same time. Watch how fast the game crashes during the explosions. The master browser can only handle requests/information so fast. It overloads, streams too much data and it fails. Then the server fails. All in that order.

I remember having a flyin. We only had 50 people on coms (this was in ROF). And we all decided to drop bombs for a video. We all dove in the same spot one after another and as the bombs started to explode, the game and server simply crashed for all 50 people on the server at the same time. That's not very good considering some WWII fighters could carry almost 50 bombs themselves. I'm not too optimistic about it at all.

I will gladly wait though. But if it's a simply reskinning of the ROF engine, it will be terrible.

Hey Bliss, they will need to recode netcode (for IL2 BOS) or to make master server a goner or make it stronger, whataver...I think they know that there will be more players in MP than it is in ROF....either that or they will join Luthier...

But....I will confess now....damn Im so sad CLOD died...it has/d an advanced FM and DM...nice graphics (which nevertheless needs tuning, tbh), super cockpits..and the theatre of operation which is far more intersting than flying uber Lavockins....Im almost sure, that if we had more luck and somebody else was in the charge of its development....we would now have a super optimized CLOD, with al the content and features (working collision model for trees etc.). But instead of that we hade a damn layer and an incompetent dum*****
BTW, Jason the nervous fisherman said IL2 BOS will be not sooner than 2014. Phew! By then we will all live on a moon...

[Catseye]

You are kidding aren't you? Jason is at the controls now. He's interested in making a return on his own investment and that means getting out as much quality content that people want to buy as soon as possible.

What you've got to ask yourself is "What do people who earn their money in dollars, pounds and euros want to fly in a high quality combat sim?"

Thats right; they want Spits, '109's, P-51's, '190, etc, etc.

I'm serious!
Firstly, your quote above seems to indicate a North American preference for models without empirical data to support it. Don't forget, the US is not the center of the universe. What models Europe and Eastern Europe may desire may not comply with your assumption.

1 yr. to sort out things and get BOS off the ground is optimistic.
Then another year to develop the next scenario - which one?
Somewhere in there is another year to start to get the Pacific Theatre on its way. (Possibly two years here as it seems there are licensing issues by the original aircraft manufacturers.)
Followed by another year to get 1941 to 1945 Europe done.
Five years easily before we get back to the BOB.

I also think that BOB is probably not up front as a scenario as it has been overdone and less likely to attract the Eastern market. I would think that in order to get U.S. sales figures up, that the Pacific War would take priority over the BOB scenario. That is another reason not to see a BOB scenario for at least another five years.

The market, in addition to development complexities will dictate the sequence. I do not see the BOB being the leader at this time.

[Dutch]

Jason Williams just posted this at 1C;

'Let me try to give some context here.

A lot of weird assumptions in this thread, but we expected some blow-back so no worries.

Comparisons to CLOD are natural and we don't expect everyone to love everything we do, but we'll work hard to please as many folks as we can.

Our engine is indeed advanced and does A LOT very well including our ME. The former CLOD team members that have joined us are very impressed with our engine. CLOD may have done some things well, but over many years and many millions of dollars it didn't do everything quite well enough. For you its a hobby and a little bit of money, but for the business interests involved it is their careers, reputation and big money at stake. Decisions to move on and make changes have to be made or it all goes away with no future.

I hope everyone joins our new forum and reads our FAQ. And all this talk about ROF business models and stuff is not accurate for this product. We are proud of what we have accomplished with ROF considering where we started and it has been a blessing to ready us for building a WWII product. As already sated, the business model will not be like CLOD and not exactly like ROF.

So before you condemn us and our engine for trying to make WWII give us some time to do our thing and in the meantime feel free to play CLOD to your heart's content. I'm sorry some of you are disappointed about CLOD development stopping, but it was not our baby, although Loft did oversee the final patch and made sure it was a good one for you. Loft says you're welcome btw.

There is no animosity among the new blended team and they are already working hard on this product together. Give us a chance to earn your business. Overall response has been quite favorable and many long time IL-2 community members have already contacted us wanting to lend a hand with everything from data collecting, model building and mission creation. There is much to be looking forward to.

Just imagine a world of regular content releases, moderately priced, with new planes and theaters on a well-functioning engine with interesting 3rd party content being made. Not since the original IL-2 has anyone even gotten close to this promise. IL-2 was released what over a decade ago? We want to give this to you, but we can only get there if you give us a fair shot and your support. If this fails, I don't see anyone else attempting such a product for a long, long time. Only 1C and 777 are foolish enough to try. Give us some credit for that. There is WT and WOWP coming, but it won't be the same as a Sturmovik product.

That's all I will say in this thread. I will continue to work with everyone in the new IL-2 forum.

Jason'

[ATAG_Bliss]

I wonder if instead of buying streamers maybe we will have to buy magnetos for the planes? Since the regular compass is almost $3. What do you think a fancy electronic gyro compass will cost?

Get out your wallets. Our stuff is good!

[ATAG_Colander]

I don't have ROF so I ask...
"well-functioning engine" ? Is it as bug free as they paint it?

[ATAG_Snapper]

"I'm sorry some of you are disappointed about CLOD development stopping, but it was not our baby, although Loft did oversee the final patch and made sure it was a good one for you. Loft says you're welcome btw."

Hmmmm. Well, thanks for the FM fixes in the "good" last patch, Loft.

[Dutch]

I don't have ROF so I ask...
"well-functioning engine" ? Is it as bug free as they paint it?

Nope, the whole game crashes quite frequently for me, particularly when replaying tracks. It isn't bug-free even now. But as I said before, I'm willing to keep an open mind, but as things stand currently, it would be a worse game than IL2, but it would have cockpit shadows, and no 'Oleg Trees'.

(Keep an open mind Dutch, keep an open mind......)

[ATAG_Bliss]

I don't have ROF so I ask...
"well-functioning engine" ? Is it as bug free as they paint it?

download it. It's free. Then take one look at the ME. Then you'll see. It's a dog fight simulator. The game doesn't even have trenches. We are talking about WW1. People have learned to tone it down. Push it barely and it goes to crap. We usually have more in our server than all of ROF to give u an idea about MP

[Doc]

Don't forget, the US is not the center of the universe.

When did that happen? :doh:

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Salute

If 1C is smart, they will open CoD for modding.

It will be their only flight sim revenue stream till 2014. And the complexity of the engine and graphics model is such that it is unlikely to develop quickly or be real competition for BATTLE OF STALINGRAD.

Besides we all know Flight Simmers will buy everything anyway.

If they open it, there is a read potential for CoD to be fixed to the level it becomes a viable game and good seller.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Salute

I think we will get a reasonably decent product out of Jason.

However it will be a DX9 based engine, and I don't think we will see viable sequel using the same engine.

They will need to start again after BATTLE OF STALINGRAD in my opinion, unless they release a very quick sequel.

The graphics/code will just be too dated.

[ATAG_Colander]

If 1C is smart, they will open CoD for modding.



Not going to happen. Opening CLOD for modding would directly compete with the new great next generation sim they just announced.

[Jugdriver]

This is terrible news for MP and the genre.

I agree with you on this Bliss, Bad new indeed.

Seems to me Jason and 777 got one hell of a deal here, they get to use the IL2 brand name (even though it will not be IL2..) slap it on their engine, expand their product offering to WW2 and the only real competition will get buried by 1C, got to hand it to him that's some good negotiating.

For me it is not as much the business model, though I can say I am not enamored with the idea of paying for everything but if it would keep the WW2 genre going I can live with it. My problem is the abandonment of the CoD engine, the potential is there for everyone to see, and even if the engine is flawed to the point that it could not deliver, we all had a glimpse at what we really want. Making new maps and WW2 aircraft for a ROF engine will be a Big step back from even a flawed CoD.


Give us a chance to earn your business

At this point he is really going to have to earn it.

JD
AKA_MattE

[Ivank]

" Loft did oversee the final patch and made sure it was a good one for you. Loft says you're welcome btw."

Total Bullshit !! Self serving p.... ! ..... This from the same guys that denied all of this 777/1C tie up when it was first put up.

Ilya was responsible for getting the final patch out the door and we as the CLOD community shouldn't forget it. He had just been axed but still went the extra mile and got RC2 as final.

[ATAG_Bliss]

" Loft did oversee the final patch and made sure it was a good one for you. Loft says you're welcome btw."

Total Bullshit !! Self serving p.... ! ..... This from the same guys that denied all of this 777/1C tie up when it was first put up.

Ilya was responsible for getting the final patch out the door and we as the CLOD community shouldn't forget it. He had just been axed but still went the extra mile and got RC2 as final.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has been seeing it for years. The only thing Jason cares about is money. This new venture will be an utter shame to the flight simmer. It's like LOFT would have the 1st clue about Clod code. Hell they can't even fix their limited shit game engine. And now it's being pawned onto the masses. I feel sorry for anyone buying into this garbage (ROF making a WWII sim).

[Robo.]

" Loft did oversee the final patch and made sure it was a good one for you. Loft says you're welcome btw."

Total Bullshit !! Self serving p.... ! ..... This from the same guys that denied all of this 777/1C tie up when it was first put up.

Ilya was responsible for getting the final patch out the door and we as the CLOD community shouldn't forget it. He had just been axed but still went the extra mile and got RC2 as final.

Very true, I could not believe it when I read that :D Thank you Ilya.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Very true, I could not believe it when I read that :D Thank you Ilya.

Be prepared for lots of lies from Jason.

[Recoilfx]

Alright, I'll bite. I don't think that Jason has lied. He certainly did not lie when he was calming down the rumors that 777 was bought by 1C. He doesn't tell the whole story, and he doesn't have to, especially when bounded by business negotiations. Luthier functioned the same way trying to sugarcoat situations. I don't blame them both.

It's possible that LOFT did 'oversee' (helped with) the final patch - I never thought it would remotely possible for a 'super hero' from 777 somehow write a patch without being so intimately involved in such short amount of time. Poor choice or word I guess.

We don't need to antagonize. It seems like the transgressors are the bean counters any ways(1C), not the dev teams. My two cents, based on my non-insider knowledge.

[Tvrdi]

Alright, I'll bite. I don't think that Jason has lied. He certainly did not lie when he was calming down the rumors that 777 was bought by 1C. He doesn't tell the whole story, and he doesn't have to, especially when bounded by business negotiations. Luthier functioned the same way trying to sugarcoat situations. I don't blame them both.

It's possible that LOFT did 'oversee' (helped with) the final patch - I never thought it would remotely possible for a 'super hero' from 777 somehow write a patch without being so intimately involved in such short amount of time. Poor choice or word I guess.

We don't need to antagonize. It seems like the transgressors are the bean counters any ways(1C), not the dev teams. My two cents, based on my non-insider knowledge.

Jason lied here and there yes...but in that hes a little baby compared to Luthier...jusy saying hehe

[Tvrdi]

Alright, I'll bite. I don't think that Jason has lied. He certainly did not lie when he was calming down the rumors that 777 was bought by 1C. He doesn't tell the whole story, and he doesn't have to, especially when bounded by business negotiations. Luthier functioned the same way trying to sugarcoat situations. I don't blame them both.

It's possible that LOFT did 'oversee' (helped with) the final patch - I never thought it would remotely possible for a 'super hero' from 777 somehow write a patch without being so intimately involved in such short amount of time. Poor choice or word I guess.

We don't need to antagonize. It seems like the transgressors are the bean counters any ways(1C), not the dev teams. My two cents, based on my non-insider knowledge.

Jason lied here and there yes (last is crap about LOFT as main dude for last CLOD patch)...but in that hes a little baby compared to Luthier...just saying hehe

[Recoilfx]

The lies I'm talking about here are: 1. Denying the rumor that 777 is taken over by 1c and 2. LOFT's involvement. Those are not lies. They are half truths, PR speak. Standard business practices.

1.) 777 is not bought by 1c, they are in partnership.

2.) I'll reinterate again here, it's possible for LOFT to be 'overseeing' (helping with some of the code/debugging/consultation, whatever) AND Luthier working his butt off on the project management side to deliver the last patch. They can both exist in this world...

It's so easy for us to go tribalistic over our games, but remember, it was also Jason defending Luthier when crap was coming down the pipe when CLoD was first released.

Again, based on my non-insider observations..

[Tvrdi]

The lies I'm talking about here are: 1. Denying the rumor that 777 is taken over by 1c and 2. LOFT's involvement. Those are not lies. They are half truths, PR speak. Standard business practices.

1.) 777 is not bought by 1c, they are in partnership.

2.) I'll reinterate again here, it's possible for LOFT to be 'overseeing' (helping with some of the code/debugging/consultation, whatever) AND Luthier working his butt off on the project management side to deliver the last patch. They can both exist in this world...

It's so easy for us to go tribalistic over our games, but remember, it was also Jason defending Luthier when crap was coming down the pipe when CLoD was first released.

Again, based on my non-insider observations..

Nobody can beat mr 50% of performance gain..or an anti-epileptic filter crap.....or, "wer on it, just wait a bit more"...or his cynical remarks.....or..or complete silence

Im starting to think sim genre is cursed...

[Recoilfx]

Nobody can beat mr 50% of performance gain..or an epileptic filter crap.....or, "wer on it, just wait a bit more"...or his cynical remarks.....or..or complete silence

Im starting to think sim genre is cursed...

Hehe, I'll defend Luthier here...

All this PR mistake is just a side effect of developers directly communicating with the community. 'Personal updates' are double edged swords. They make users feel more directly involved, but developers don't have a degree in communications. They, like us, are prone to human mistakes. What Luthier did was amature, but very understandable. IMO, he really poured his heart and soul into CloD...

This genre is not cursed, it just doesn't have enough money to attract talents that we wish to have...

[JG52_Krupi]

The lies I'm talking about here are: 1. Denying the rumor that 777 is taken over by 1c and 2. LOFT's involvement. Those are not lies. They are half truths, PR speak. Standard business practices.

1.) 777 is not bought by 1c, they are in partnership.

2.) I'll reinterate again here, it's possible for LOFT to be 'overseeing' (helping with some of the code/debugging/consultation, whatever) AND Luthier working his butt off on the project management side to deliver the last patch. They can both exist in this world...

It's so easy for us to go tribalistic over our games, but remember, it was also Jason defending Luthier when crap was coming down the pipe when CLoD was first released.

Again, based on my non-insider observations..

+1
I am all for given Jason and 777 a chance.

[Tvrdi]

+1
I am all for given Jason and 777 a chance.

Ofcourse. What else we can do since we wont get CLOD engine for moding....Just pray the team will not make a year + pauses in fixing FMs as they did in ROF....

[Ohms]

This has been a very interesting read, what I get from this is WE will have to come up with intersting concepts to keep the Clod flyers together.
Just like SOW have done and our russian friends are trying soon. I have met some great people online flying this game and do not want to loose that.
Atag has kept this game alive along with others and I thank you for that(so does my wife).

Ohmie :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Colander]

This has been a very interesting read, what I get from this is WE will have to come up with intersting concepts to keep the Clod flyers together.
Just like SOW have done and our russian friends are trying soon. I have met some great people online flying this game and do not want to loose that.
Atag has kept this game alive along with others and I thank you for that(so does my wife).

Ohmie :thumbsup:

ATAG: Keeping wives happy since 2011

hahahahahaha :)

[Recoilfx]

My wife knows most you regulars at TS by voice, heh :)

[Tvrdi]

My wife knows most you regulars at TS by voice, heh :)

Hey dude I hope ur not using the voices for some......in house workout......:D

[MadTommy]

I'm finding this thread baffling to say the least.

The disdain for everything RoF and some of the crap being said unfortunately reminds me of the idiots off the CloD forums combined this with the praise for Luthier is bizarre. (he was a walking disaster zone)

I'm not sure what agenda some of you have, but i'd suggest you try and take the positives.. because it is either no further IL2 versions or one run by this new team. That's your choice. Nothing is to be gained by being negative nancies.

Judging it/them at this stage is ridiculous, you have NO idea what will be delivered in 2 years time.

[vranac]

Judging it/them at this stage is ridiculous, you have NO idea what will be delivered in 2 years time.

What they did in last two years?

Selling machine guns, scarfs :)
It is very cold when you are in I-16 in winter time, I'm shure they will provide nice fur coats.

Some of us have idea, they will just pack some of the stuff (3D models allready builded) into their engine and sell it.

[kopperdrake]

I'm finding this thread baffling to say the least.

The disdain for everything RoF and some of the crap being said unfortunately reminds me of the idiots off the CloD forums combined this with the praise for Luthier is bizarre. (he was a walking disaster zone)

I'm not sure what agenda some of you have, but i'd suggest you try and take the positives.. because it is either no further IL2 versions or one run by this new team. That's your choice. Nothing is to be gained by being negative nancies.

Judging it/them at this stage is ridiculous, you have NO idea what will be delivered in 2 years time.

I have to say I'm with you totally MadTommy. I know I'm new to this whole flight sim malarky, and I understand the past methods of development/sales from the 777 crew seems to rankle some, and in their eyes for possibly good reason. But this new team is part them, part the old CloD team, from what we know. Who knows what they may deliver. To gainsay their statements from the outset, to be so negative, is not constructive for the whole genre, in my opinion. Whilst I am new to flight sims, I am not new to life. My own personal stance, and it is one I have lived by to date, is to be happy with what we have - a workable flight sim, a great community, bloody great servers and most importantly of all, the urge to kick the virtual enemy where it hurts and laugh manically afterwards. Leave the developers to do their thing, give constructive input when asked, admit that not everything you like is what everyone else likes. When the final product is released for our collective consumption and it's a heap of steamy stuff, then, and only then, should we complain. And we will complain in a way that hurts the most, we just won't buy it. We'll move on to other flight sims, or other games. We might take up walking the dog with the wife, or grow Dahlias, or scratch our arses to the tune of Colonel Bogey. Who knows. If it's great, then we are all winners. If it's kind of what we wanted, but not totally, then play it for what it is, in the same way we play CloD for what it is.

If it's not Battle of Britain, I won't complain. The world is big enough to have umpteen virtual theatres of war, and I'm sure they all have their subtleties to enjoy.

That's me done on the politics of this whole thing. The plus side is somebody is developing a WW2 flight sim. We might not like it when it arrives, but it'll be more than we'd have if no one develops one.

Bunny

[Tvrdi]

What they did in last two years?

Selling machine guns, scarfs :)

Well...the WW1 niche is VERY small...it was either sell the scarves or close the store...but you know that...I dont like it either but you must know that the time of "one time pay" for sims is over...its a dying genre (hardcore prop sims) and it needs funds on monthly basis to stay alive...

[Doc]

I agree with that. One price for all is over.

[vranac]

Well...the WW1 niche is VERY small...it was either sell the scarves or close the store...but you know that...I dont like it either but you must know that the time of "one time pay" for sims is over...its a dying genre (hardcore prop sims) and it needs funds on monthly basis to stay alive...

I understand that but that is still ridiculous.

But to sell RoF 2 under the name of il2 on outdated dx9 engine that barley can handle 70 pilots online with few objects on the map is even more ridiculous.
And when I saw what Jason said about ground troops, everytihg is clear, "Every our truck have brain..." :)

http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index.php?showtopic=7&page=3#entry959

I never had any interest in RoF but also never had been reading RoF forums and writing bad stuff about that game.
And now its clear that most of the usual whiners on banana and sukhoi forums were from RoF.

I'll just wait till tomorrow to see what BS will Loft sell.

[vranac]

Loft answering the questions:


13) Will there be implemented clickable cockpits (at least partially as in WT)?


No. We create a simulation of air combat (this concept is and attack ground targets). The pilot will only receive critical systems, propeller pitch, boost, altitude control, different mechanization, weapons and more. Procedural training device will not be a game simulator. We would like to return to the original idea of ​​the "IL-2 Sturmovik", because we believe that it was great.

15) Do you plan to schedule cockpits at basic models WT (spit/hur/109)?

No. This you will not see. The reasons are simple. On the creation of one such car takes a year, sometimes more. The popularity of the genre has to be phenomenal to such expenses were justified. If not be careful, the budget end, and with it the end and projects. So it is not too wise use of resources PC, when applied 20 textures, where only three, and to result in serious performance problems. We hope to find a solution.



21) In the CloD we have a rather big enough by today's standards project. What will be transferd in BoS? Model aircraft / ground objects / maps / sounds / algorithms etc?

Only the models and textures.







http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://forum.il2sturmovik.su/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D89&usg=ALkJrhgx8PBbBhFva_DqFx7W1RNrEjsZHA

[Tvrdi]

Loft answering the questions:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://forum.il2sturmovik.su/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D89&usg=ALkJrhgx8PBbBhFva_DqFx7W1RNrEjsZHA

For (mouse) clickable cockpits I dont care (as long as it can be used with mapped buttons and as long as the knobs are moving) Cockpit detail in ROF is good enough for me, far more detailed than in IL2 46...Sure, it lacks DM....DX9 in ROF looks good enough and 70 ppl max on server is not a problem since I doubt we would have much more in any sim after IL2 46 (its cracked, its here for 13 yrs, its old engine which works on ancient PCs, can use hundreds of units etc.).
Sure, would be cool to have DX11 sim with DM for cockpits, which can carry 300 ground units in MP mission bla bla....but for that we need a team which can deliver it in less than 10 yrs, with all the candies, updates and optimisations, features (on example collision model for trees we never got in CLOD!) so ppl with moderate to high end PC systems can play it without issues.
Nobody forces anyone to play what he likes.

[vranac]

For (mouse) clickable cockpits I dont care (as long as it can be used with mapped buttons and as long as the knobs are moving) Cockpit detail in ROF is good enough for me, far more detailed than in IL2 46...Sure, it lacks DM....DX9 in ROF looks good enough and 70 ppl max on server is not a problem since I doubt we would have much more in any sim after IL2 46 (its cracked, its here for 13 yrs, its old engine which works on ancient PCs, can use hundreds of units etc.).
Sure, would be cool to have DX11 sim with DM for cockpits, which can carry 300 ground units in MP mission bla bla....but for that we need a team which can deliver it in less than 10 yrs, with all the candies, updates and optimisations, features (on example collision model for trees we never got in CLOD!) so ppl with moderate to high end PC systems can play it without issues.
Nobody forces anyone to play what he likes.

If that is acceptable for you,enyoy it. For me its not.

Here you have one more answer from Loft which describe what you'll get:


Oniline War, about this - I would like to dream. In the old Il2 [and CloD] it can be done and in the RoF, not even with crutches, well, or if with great imagination and limitations (and years of trying).

You offer dogfight, after all this ... Anything except FM, DM and sales model, you are not different from the Tundra[War thunder] (Im bad in English writing, sorry).

Loft:

In nothing. But maybe that's the key parameters.


Meni se sa konja na magarca ne ide.Makar i polumrtvog. *

*Sorry guys for the foriegn language.It is proverb and translated means
" I don't want to change a horse for a donkey.Even if its halfdead."

[JG52_Krupi]

If that is acceptable for you,enyoy it. For me its not.

Here you have one more answer from Loft which describe what you'll get:




Meni se sa konja na magarca ne ide.Makar i polumrtvog. *

*Sorry guys for the foriegn language.It is proverb and translated means
" I don't want to change a horse for a donkey.Even if its halfdead."

Time will tell, vranac.

Personally I hope you are wrong but I have the feeling you are right...

Don't rise to Trvdi trolling, in two years he refused to see what MG and Ilya were given us I doubt he will ever see...

[Tvrdi]

Meni se sa konja na magarca ne ide.Makar i polumrtvog. *

*Sorry guys for the foriegn language.It is proverb and translated means
" I don't want to change a horse for a donkey.Even if its halfdead."

Magare kod mene neće ni da mrdne....a fale mu uši (drveće kao duhovi, jadni oblaci itd..)...zadnji put kad sam igrao tip mi pobježe među drvećem jer ih je isključio a bez njih landscape izgleda loše....


@Krupi - think whataver you want....I never trolled...I said what I like in CLOD and what was a deal braker for me....same with ROF..I said it to Jason also and got banned forever from ROF forum and from core beta team...I was a beta tester in original IL2 btw, for a short period of time and was directly responsible for removing negative G engine cutout in early zero.......have a nice day and I hope you will continue to bash 777 on IL2 BOS forum, in all your bitterness..the question is why your not throwing your bitterness to Luthier instead on poor fisherman and salesman Jason...maybe because Luthier run away without a letter....wait, he typed something short on CLOD forum after we didnt hear a word from him for months....

[JG52_Krupi]

Magare kod mene neće ni da mrdne....a fale mu uši (drveće kao duhovi, jadni oblaci itd..)...zadnji put kad sam igrao tip mi pobježe među drvećem jer ih je isključio a bez njih landscape izgleda loše....


@Krupi - think whataver you want....I never trolled...I said what I like in CLOD and what was a deal braker for me....same with ROF..I said it to Jason also and got banned forever from ROF forum and from core beta team...I was a beta tester in original IL2 btw, for a short period of time and was directly responsible for removing negative G engine cutout in early zero.......have a nice day and I hope you will continue to bash 777 on IL2 BOS forum, in all your bitterness..the question is why your not throwing your bitterness to Luthier instead on poor fisherman and salesman Jason...maybe because Luthier run away without a letter....wait, he typed something short on CLOD forum after we didnt hear a word from him for months....

Your not a Troll? Okay your a deluded troll, if you don't think that what you did on the banana forum or here is trolling then your a spastic, go dribble somewhere else.

[ATAG_Colander]

Please let's try to keep the banana behavior in bananaland.

[ATAG_Septic]

Your not a Troll? Okay your a deluded troll, if you don't think that what you did on the banana forum or here is trolling then your a spastic, go dribble somewhere else.

I haven't bothered to read what led up to this but it's offensive.

[ATAG_Snapper]

I haven't bothered to read what led up to this but it's offensive.

+1

As Colander said, this is banana forum crap. Please either take it to PM, or better yet -- just drop it.

[vranac]

Please calm down all :wf:

There is no trouble at all.

I consider Tvrdi as my friend, and we wasn't insulting each other in any way.

And also Mr Krupi is my friend ( in the steam also )))

And I suppose that all of us on this forum are enjoying flying Clod.

:wf:

[ATAG_Colander]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51soG3w0SzL._SL500_SS500_.jpg

:)

[JG52_Krupi]

Don't expect me to apologize for what I said I will stand by it, due to the constant moaning from some areas we might have taken a HUGE step back in combat flight simulators and those same whiners are now clapping there hands and saying how wonderful it is that we are getting a dumbed down il2 and are telling me to just live with it well they can shove that idea where the sun don't shine. I am willing to give 777 and Jason the chance to produce a good il2 game but it disgusts me to see all these pathetic trolls now fawning at what currently appears to be a huge step back from what Oleg and Ilya imagined there next il2 game to be like.... I really truly hope that the can but only time will tell.

I say what I think needs to be said and since I am not running for any kind of political office here why the hell should I be diplomatic, I will say what I think and if you guys don't like that you best ban me now.

[Tvrdi]

Don't expect me to apologize for what I said I will stand by it, due to the constant moaning from some areas we might have taken a HUGE step back in combat flight simulators and those same whiners are now clapping there hands and saying how wonderful it is that we are getting a dumbed down il2 and are telling me to just live with it well they can shove that idea where the sun don't shine. I am willing to give 777 and Jason the chance to produce a good il2 game but it disgusts me to see all these pathetic trolls now fawning at what currently appears to be a huge step back from what Oleg and Ilya imagined there next il2 game to be like.... I really truly hope that the can but only time will tell.

I say what I think needs to be said and since I am not running for any kind of political office here why the hell should I be diplomatic, I will say what I think and if you guys don't like that you best ban me now.

1) You should stop insulting me now as I never allowed anybody to do this without slaping him on the face...here and in RL...Your obviously frustrated how this went through so vent on somebody else if your disappointed how things evolved....maybe you should mail to Luthier because all the negatives exploded on DISASTEROUS release
2) I dont clapp my hands now, I know what we lost with CLOD...what could be out of it....the problem was, it was a disasterous release...there, the cards started to fall down...plus very poor PR rejected ppl
3) A sim advanced as CLOD demands a huge funding, enormous time for development, capable team and MANAGEMENT, good PR, proper optimisation of the CODE (advanced sim but with realistic expectations due to limited hardware capabilities) and a good hardcore fanbase which will support it.....we didnt have a single thing from this list...
4) I cant call a sim - an hard core sim as long thers no collision model for trees...thast basic...itd a fekin arcade for me....
5) I hope moders will make CLOD what it should be...or close to that
6) over and out