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View Full Version : Official TFS skin update for TF4.5, July 31 2017. Spitfire, Hurricane, Wellington



major_setback
Jul-31-2017, 09:37
Here are some of the new default skins that we hope to include in TF4.5

Today's update: Spitfire, Hurricane, Wellington.


Shown are some skins with specific codes. These will also be included in TF4.5. These same camouflage colours that can be seen in the screenshots will also be used on the new default skins (note that the Hurricane default skin will have a sky underside, not light-blue/black. There is a screenshot of this below).

Hurricane I DT-H 257 sqn Cotishall 1940.
29775297762977729778
29779

29780297812978229783
2978429785

297862978729780


Default Hurricane:
29788297892979029791
29792


Spitfire: AH-Z

29793297942979529796
29797297982979929800
29793298012979529802
29803


Hurricane KWZ:
29804298052980629807


Hurricane (Joker emblem) Code DX-? Serial nr W9200:
29808298092981029811298202982129822
29812298132981429815
29816298162981729818
29823298242982529826
2982729828
29819

Spitfire, Grey/Green photo recon aircraft (camera non functional, just painted on the skin). There will also be a version without the camera ports and without codes:

2982929830298312983229833



Wellingtons (2 styles of camouflage, straight sided black demarcation with low placement on fuselage, and wavy demarcation higher up).

298342983529836

29837298382983929840
29841298422984329844
29845298452984629847
2984829849


Straight sided camouflage demarcation line (low demarcation placement):

29851298522985329854
29855298562985729858



Team Fusion Simulations

RedToo
Jul-31-2017, 10:52
Great skins. :)

Nice to see J.W.C. Simpson's Hurricane! (DX-?)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/RedToo/large2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RedToo/media/large2.jpg.html)

The story of J.W.C. Simpson's BoB experience (published during the war) is a good read:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/RedToo/JWS.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RedToo/media/JWS.jpg.html)

BOO
Jul-31-2017, 10:57
Lovely Work MS.

ATAG_Vampire
Jul-31-2017, 11:07
Splendid set of skins MS.

Thanks for sharing and cannot wait to fly these. :thumbsup:

o7 :salute:

Blitzen
Jul-31-2017, 11:45
I can hardly wait for the big day toget here esp. with these new skins! I am curious will there be a few new German &/or Italian oes as well?:thumbsup:

DerDa
Jul-31-2017, 11:53
I'm just about to finish a 1:48 Hurri with my markings.
Seems I will have to make a few others as well ...

Woop
Jul-31-2017, 12:31
Great stuff sir! :salute:

Will there still be a grime/dirt/weathering slider for us who like it down and dirty? :whacky4:

ATAG_Flare
Jul-31-2017, 13:13
Nice skins Major Setback!

One thing I noticed though, on the Hurricane KWZ, on one side it says K-WZ and on the other it says KW-Z.

I have another question:

Did the RAF have a standard way of putting the letters on? I've seen a few different layouts in these skins. Most pictures I've seen from WWII show the two squadron letter codes forward of the roundel, and the single ID letter behind. So, if the code was AB-C, it would read AB-C on the left side and C-AB on the right side. CloD does this by default if you put your own markings on, I believe. In your screenshots, Spitfire AZ-H has the squadron code behind the ID letter. Hurricane DT-H reads the same way on both sides, with the ID code behind on the left and in front on the right. Hurricane DX-? has the squadron code behind the roundel on both sides, reading ?-DX on the left and DX-? on the right. Was the RAF really just putting the letters on in so many different ways?

Woop
Jul-31-2017, 14:31
Did the RAF have a standard way of putting the letters on? I've seen a few different layouts in these skins. Most pictures I've seen from WWII show the two squadron letter codes forward of the roundel, and the single ID letter behind. So, if the code was AB-C, it would read AB-C on the left side and C-AB on the right side. CloD does this by default if you put your own markings on, I believe. In your screenshots, Spitfire AZ-H has the squadron code behind the ID letter. Hurricane DT-H reads the same way on both sides, with the ID code behind on the left and in front on the right. Hurricane DX-? has the squadron code behind the roundel on both sides, reading ?-DX on the left and DX-? on the right. Was the RAF really just putting the letters on in so many different ways?

I've been searching about for a concrete answer to this for ages, would be great if someone could shed some light on the issue.

For instance:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/80/37/e0/8037e0a8fbbf83f7115c4b38ffad7dc2.jpg

This is on an early DH so I imagine there were quite a few different phases No.615 went through...

:salute:


EDIT: It seems setback's skin is a MkIIA flown by Eric Carter Z5208 out of Northolt Oct 1940

ATAG_Laser
Jul-31-2017, 14:37
Great skins there Major :thumbsup:

I was pleased to see the Coltishall based Hurricane skin as I was brought up near this famous ( now closed) former RAF base, and as you can see I use the station badge as my avatar.

Just a shame that the map doesn't extend far enough North for the base to feature in game :salute:

RedToo
Jul-31-2017, 14:58
Did the RAF have a standard way of putting the letters on? I've seen a few different layouts in these skins. Most pictures I've seen from WWII show the two squadron letter codes forward of the roundel, and the single ID letter behind. So, if the code was AB-C, it would read AB-C on the left side and C-AB on the right side. CloD does this by default if you put your own markings on, I believe. In your screenshots, Spitfire AZ-H has the squadron code behind the ID letter. Hurricane DT-H reads the same way on both sides, with the ID code behind on the left and in front on the right. Hurricane DX-? has the squadron code behind the roundel on both sides, reading ?-DX on the left and DX-? on the right. Was the RAF really just putting the letters on in so many different ways?


You have piqued my interest with this! From this thread here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/74535-raf-squadron-serials-ww2/

It seems that there may have been a 'proper' way of painting the serials, but as often with the RAF what happened at squadron level was very laissez-faire!

Edit. This page:

http://www.rafweb.org/Squadrons/Sqn%20Markings/Sqn_codes3.htm

seems to give a rational explanation for the different ways of applying the serials.

Woop
Jul-31-2017, 15:11
You have piqued my interest with this! From this thread here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/74535-raf-squadron-serials-ww2/

It seems that there may have been a 'proper' way of painting the serials, but as often with the RAF what happened at squadron level was very laissez-faire!

Edit. This page:

http://www.rafweb.org/Squadrons/Sqn%20Markings/Sqn_codes3.htm

seems to give a rational explanation for the different ways of applying the serials.

These are a great help, thanks for posting sir! :salute:

major_setback
Jul-31-2017, 15:44
Great stuff sir! :salute:

Will there still be a grime/dirt/weathering slider for us who like it down and dirty? :whacky4:

There shouldn't be any change to the weathering slider.

major_setback
Jul-31-2017, 16:10
I can hardly wait for the big day toget here esp. with these new skins! I am curious will there be a few new German &/or Italian oes as well?:thumbsup:

The switch in focus to TF4.5 only came about recently, around the time that TFS gained access to the source code. Prior to this the main priority of TFS (including skinning) was the forthcoming TF5/desert release. There has been limited time to work on skins for TF4.5 (those with temperate camouflage etc.), and due to this fact there will unfortunately be a limited number of aircraft that receive new skins and new default skins. The allied skins were those in most need of replacement (the Beaufighter at present does not have a default day camouflage scheme), and therefore it is those that have received most attention. However there may be one new Luftwaffe/German skin included in TF4.5.
Please understand that it has been a very rushed process just to produce the skins shown in the recent TF4.5 skin updates.

Cheers, major_setback (TFS)

ATAG_Scones
Aug-01-2017, 08:18
:salute:

Awesome skins, Major_Setback!

I eagerly await the update. :)

Will the recon. aircraft have any guns?

rel4y
Aug-01-2017, 08:48
Doesnt look very rushed to me. Very nice quality major_setback, keep up the good work!

What Id really love to see for 5.0 is some 4K eyecandy skins for the twin engines at least. :recon:

Cybermat47
Aug-01-2017, 09:08
Will there be versions without any markings, so that we can use them with the in-game markings?

Kling
Aug-01-2017, 10:47
The skins are perfect SM!

major_setback
Aug-01-2017, 11:03
Will there be versions without any markings, so that we can use them with the in-game markings?



Thanks everyone for the comments.

Hopefully there will be new default skins for the Spitfire, Hurricane, Wellington, Beaufighter (daytime), and Blenheim (all versions). These will naturally have no markings.
The other main aim is to include all the update skins without any markings or code, for use with in-game national markings and codes.

Space permitting, TF4.5 will also include all of these skins, both with and without my own national markings. Those with my own national markings can be used by players who simply want to add their own codes or logos, and they are intended to be used with in-game markings turned off. In-game national markings are a bit too colourful at the moment, and some people will prefer to turn them off and use their own skins (or adapt the ones provided).

Looking into the future: There are no plans to update the in-game national markings before after TF5, as skinning the desert aircraft for TF5 takes priority, and there is still work that needs doing for that release. For the same reason it is probably unlikely that all of the European default skins will be updated for TF5, though some of them will no doubt be replaced.

Note: someone on another forum pointed out that the code on the port side of the KWZ Hurricane was incorrect, so I will edit the codes on that skin.

Cheers,
major_setback (TFS)

Mysticpuma
Aug-01-2017, 14:13
Hi MS.
Love the skins.
I hope that if there are new default skins (unmarked) that someone in the team is able to work out how to get noseart working correctly and also (crosses fingers) that default markings can be disabled in replays when using custom skins?
You have some great custom skins there but if the default markings still display in replays it'll be a huge shame :(

Cheers, MP

major_setback
Aug-01-2017, 14:26
:salute:

Awesome skins, Major_Setback!

I eagerly await the update. :)

Will the recon. aircraft have any guns?


It will have guns in-game. The recon camera ports are non-functional in-game.

It is an armed low-level recon Spitfire Mk.I (PR.Mk.IG modified from the Mk.I), code ZW-C, from 140 sqn RAF Benson, Oxfordshire, during October/September 1941.

Quote:
'Spitfire P.R. Mk I Type G
The P.R. Type G was intended for low altitude reconnaissance and was the only version of these Mk. I conversions to retain its guns (eight .303 inch Brownings), intended for self-defence but which, no doubt, could also be used in an offensive way. In slightly later terms they would have been categorised as Tactical Reconnaissance aircraft rather than Photo Reconnaissance and would probably have had the F.R. designation like reconnaissance conversions of later Spitfires and Seafires. An extra 29-gallon (132-litre) fuel tank was fitted behind the cockpit; three cameras were fitted, two pointing down from the fuselage underside and one fitted in the radio bay on the left side behind the cockpit pointing backwards and downwards for oblique photography'.
From: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2006/05/stuff_eng_profile_pr_spitfires.htm


Cheers, major_setback

BOO
Aug-01-2017, 15:46
Note: someone on another forum pointed out that the code on the port side of the KWZ Hurricane was incorrect, so I will edit the codes on that skin.

Cheers,
major_setback (TFS)

Everyone's a critic :-)

Woop
Aug-01-2017, 16:10
Hi MS.
Love the skins.
I hope that if there are new default skins (unmarked) that someone in the team is able to work out how to get noseart working correctly and also (crosses fingers) that default markings can be disabled in replays when using custom skins?
You have some great custom skins there but if the default markings still display in replays it'll be a huge shame :(

Cheers, MP

Well said. :salute: Getting the noseart to work correctly would be amazing!

BOO
Aug-01-2017, 16:12
I think Lokos/sokol found the bug for this...

And someone else too

ATAG_Scones
Aug-01-2017, 19:17
It will have guns in-game. The recon camera ports are non-functional in-game.

It is an armed low-level recon Spitfire Mk.I (PR.Mk.IG modified from the Mk.I), code ZW-C, from 140 sqn RAF Benson, Oxfordshire, during October/September 1941.

Quote:
'Spitfire P.R. Mk I Type G
The P.R. Type G was intended for low altitude reconnaissance and was the only version of these Mk. I conversions to retain its guns (eight .303 inch Brownings), intended for self-defence but which, no doubt, could also be used in an offensive way. In slightly later terms they would have been categorised as Tactical Reconnaissance aircraft rather than Photo Reconnaissance and would probably have had the F.R. designation like reconnaissance conversions of later Spitfires and Seafires. An extra 29-gallon (132-litre) fuel tank was fitted behind the cockpit; three cameras were fitted, two pointing down from the fuselage underside and one fitted in the radio bay on the left side behind the cockpit pointing backwards and downwards for oblique photography'.
From: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2006/05/stuff_eng_profile_pr_spitfires.htm


Cheers, major_setback

Thanks MS,

This is very informative. I had no idea that there were tactical as well as photo reconnaissance aircraft. Would the type of missions these were sent on have been of a different nature?

Regards,

'Sconesy

Kai Lae
Aug-01-2017, 19:59
Everyone's a critic :-)

Better correct the first time than needing to be fixed.

major_setback
Aug-02-2017, 03:28
Everyone's a critic :-)


Better correct the first time than needing to be fixed.

Are you a founder member of the BoS forum?

BOO
Aug-02-2017, 03:54
Better correct the first time than needing to be fixed.

Hello Kai - my comment wasn't intended to have a dig at someone pointing out a problem - Sorry if I caused you any offence.

major_setback
Aug-02-2017, 08:51
Hello Kai - my comment wasn't intended to have a dig at someone pointing out a problem - Sorry if I caused you any offence.

No Boo. You don't need to apologise to anybody. I think it's quite obvious his comment was directed to me.

BOO
Aug-02-2017, 12:47
I do notice a certain willingness from some to be sharp (and sometimes very unfair) in their criticism elsewhere. But the names are familiar enough and their comments boringly predictable no matter how clever they try to be in masking their barbs. I hadn't put Kai into this category though and it really was just a throw away quote............ but I'm ignorant to any recent sim world history that may lie beneath.

Enjoy your break!

Woop
Aug-02-2017, 13:07
While we are on the topic of skins and markings here is an issue I noticed today, about squadron markings do not suffer from the effects of the weathering slider, thus making them stand out in an odd way.

https://tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/877

May be a feature request though, instead of a bug :S

Artist
Aug-02-2017, 15:48
Feature request or bug is difficult to decide - as the markings are there and the slider is there, I'd say bug...

...but: The real question would be a historical one. That the whole plane was not (re)painted every week or so - and therefore affected by weathering - is probable. But the markings, being so important - were they allowed to weather? Or would they be repainted on regular base?

FightingSteel1
Aug-02-2017, 22:38
Feature request or bug is difficult to decide - as the markings are there and the slider is there, I'd say bug...

...but: The real question would be a historical one. That the whole plane was not (re)painted every week or so - and therefore affected by weathering - is probable. But the markings, being so important - were they allowed to weather? Or would they be repainted on regular base?

Probably depended on the current situation in the field and how well things were going. For example, I don't think this 109G in 1944 had anything repainted for a while.

Blitzen
Aug-02-2017, 23:36
I was told by an ex- luftwaffe pilot that the average life span of a 109 or 190 was shockingly short-something like 9 hours of combat in the late war...:idea:

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-03-2017, 00:28
I was told by an ex- luftwaffe pilot that the average life span of a 109 or 190 was shockingly short-something like 9 hours of combat in the late war...:idea:

It depended on the pilot flying it... although by the end of the war German 109 production actually exceeded the number of available trained pilots, so there was a tendency to discard any aircraft which had any issues.

But also, by the end of the war the Jagdflieger were broken down into a few 'Experten' and a lot of 'Nachwuchs'... (which I think was translated at the time as "new babies") Aces and Noobs... And the life expectancy of a Nachwuch was not very high. So a lot of planes were going out piloted by a Nachwuch on his first or second combat mission... and not coming back.

There was also the fact a lot of the German aircraft were built in cramped dark underground factories with the use of slave labour... and there was a lot of sabotage by those workers.

Screamadelica
Aug-03-2017, 03:46
Great work Major!
The new Hurricane skins look outstanding.
Thank you for all the hard work you have put into TFS 4.5, it looks like it is going to be epic.
Cheers, Scream.

Ghost666
Aug-08-2017, 18:52
It depended on the pilot flying it... although by the end of the war German 109 production actually exceeded the number of available trained pilots, so there was a tendency to discard any aircraft which had any issues.

But also, by the end of the war the Jagdflieger were broken down into a few 'Experten' and a lot of 'Nachwuchs'... (which I think was translated at the time as "new babies") Aces and Noobs... And the life expectancy of a Nachwuch was not very high. So a lot of planes were going out piloted by a Nachwuch on his first or second combat mission... and not coming back.

There was also the fact a lot of the German aircraft were built in cramped dark underground factories with the use of slave labour... and there was a lot of sabotage by those workers.

oh, just like on line. but I think the translation is 'Experten' = ace and 'Nachwuchs' = target.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-08-2017, 20:56
There was another name at the end of the war for the very experienced pilots... "Alte Hasen" or "Old Hares".

This came from a hunting reference... the "old hares" were the hardest to shoot because instantly they spotted a human or a dog, they bounded away and were gone into the underbrush.

At the end of the war there was a lot of criticism of some of the Jagdflieger leadership... the Gruppen and Geschwader commanders... for not taking enough care of their new pilots and only being concerned with saving their own skins.

This was the case even with JG26, the Geschwader with the greatest experience on the West Front and the one with the highest victory total.

This is actually quite understandable if you look at the realities of the veteran German pilots. Most of them had been fighting the entire war, with very little time off, other than when they were wounded, were sent back to Berlin to be decorated, or recovering from a crash or bailout. (which happened a lot) So these guys were essentially operating in a state of PTSD... shell shocked and reacting on their instincts.

The Allies were much smarter in how they handled their veterans... they rotated them out of combat after a certain number of missions, sent them to training establishments to teach new pilots their skills, or promoted them to base commanders etc. The result was the Allied pilot leadership were much more aggressive and eager for combat than the Germans by the end of the war.

Typically the first reaction of an Allied pilot when he saw an enemy aircraft, even if he was flying a Fighter-bomber loaded down with bombracks or rocket racks, was to attack. The British bitched a lot at the end of the war because of all the attacks they had to avoid from Americans aircraft who mis-identified British types and attacked instantly.

By the end of the war, the first reaction of a German pilot when he saw Allied fighter aircraft was to think about getting away. They were there to get kills on bombers, they didn't want to mix it up with the fighters. "Nachwuchs" were advised if they found themselves under attack from Allied fighters... to bail out... even before they took damage. And that happened a lot.

Very different situation than what existed in 1940-42.