Very funny if it's true...

[ATAG_Colander]

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/secret-message-found-inside-ww2-bullet-is-the-end-of-a-1682902455

[ATAG_Lewis]

Good find...Fascinating story...

I read somewhere that the 'potato masher' grenade the German infantry had which we see in a lot of movies was not a very destructive grenade...I read that it was more of a flash bang than a grenade made to discombobulate the enemy rather than blow them up...Maybe someone can shed some light on that...It seems strange to make a weapon that does that instead of putting an enemy totally out of action...Is it true?

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

The fact is, in WWII, while there were elite forces, the majority of the German army were not the 'Supermen' they are often portrayed as in modern histories.

Any large drafted organization has its share of 'nincompoops'. ;)

[ATAG_Flare]

Good find...Fascinating story...

I read somewhere that the 'potato masher' grenade the German infantry had which we see in a lot of movies was not a very destructive grenade...I read that it was more of a flash bang than a grenade made to discombobulate the enemy rather than blow them up...Maybe someone can shed some light on that...It seems strange to make a weapon that does that instead of putting an enemy totally out of action...Is it true?

The standard German Stielhandgrenate (Stick hand grenade) was not a fragmentation grenade like the British Mills Bomb or the American Mk. II "Pineapple". The Allied grenades held a smaller amount of explosives, but the metal shell had these little trenches all around it that would break when it exploded, sending the whole shell outwards as small pieces of deadly shrapnel. The shrapnel was what would kill you. The German stick grenade was based on a different principle, it held much more explosive but did not have a fragmentation case, it relied only on the pure concussive blast, which could still kill you for sure. It certainly wasn't ineffective but tests would have to be done to really prove which type of grenade will kill someone better.

It should also be noted that the Germans did eventually add a fragmentation sleeve to the Stielhandgrenate in the M43 model. This would have probably been one of the most deadly infantry grenades of the war because of the large amount of HE plus the frag sleeve. (Apart from anti-tank grenades of course.)

[DerDa]

Good find...Fascinating story...

I read somewhere that the 'potato masher' grenade the German infantry had which we see in a lot of movies was not a very destructive grenade...I read that it was more of a flash bang than a grenade made to discombobulate the enemy rather than blow them up...Maybe someone can shed some light on that...It seems strange to make a weapon that does that instead of putting an enemy totally out of action...Is it true?

No idea about this grenade, but never underestimate psychological effects.
Take the Typhoons for example:
(quote from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Typhoon):
"During the course of the battle, pilots of the 2nd Tactical Air Force and 9th USAAF claimed to have destroyed a combined total of 252 tanks.[40] Only 177 German tanks and assault guns participated in the battle and only 46 were lost – of which nine were verified as destroyed by Typhoons, four percent of the total claimed.[41]"

But:
"The effect on the morale of German troops caught up in a Typhoon RP and cannon attack was decisive, with many tanks and vehicles being abandoned, in spite of superficial damage, such that a signal from the German Army's Chief of Staff stated that the attack had been brought to a standstill by 13:00 '...due to the employment of fighter-bombers by the enemy"

So, a big 'flash, bang' can do the trick.

[TURK_Enlem]

29865

[Kendy for the State]

The fact is, in WWII, while there were elite forces, the majority of the German army were not the 'Supermen' they are often portrayed as in modern histories.

Any large drafted organization has its share of 'nincompoops'. ;)So they had their own "Sad Sack"[emoji768] soldiers too!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

While the Allied grenades did have fragmentation effects, the design of the grenades was not efficient.

Ideally you want the grenade to fragment into a lot of small pieces... because at close ranges a very small fragment can kill you.

In reality, the Allied grenades tended to break into one large piece, and a few small ones... someone who was quite close to the grenade might be missed although the concussive effect would stun someone who is close enough.

The German concept was to stun everyone within range with a large amount of explosive... then you could overrun them before they would recover.

Modern fragmentation grenades have a very thin outer casing which is unimportant as far as fragmentation is concerned, but inside, around the explosive, is a wound coil of thin wire which is pre-notched to allow the instantaneous creation of many fragments. Much more deadly.

There are also pure HE type grenades... including non-lethal types which are used in hostage situations... they will blow out someone's eardrum and stun them severely, but not kill the hostages.

The advantage of German hand grenades was they could be thrown a much longer distance by inexperienced soldiers... (although American's with their love of baseball developed techniques which allowed them to throw their grenades quite a distance) the disadvantage of the German type was they were more bulky and fewer of them could be carried.

[ATAG_Pattle]

And from personal experiance, I can tell you that grenades as not the easiest to throw long distance.

Instructors used to make one hold onto them longer then the fuse once you pulled the pin (and made sure that the grenade and pin were in the appropriate hand. Nothing worse than a soldier throwing the pin and hanging onto the grenade.) :doh:

The grip on the grenade was that tight (In the hope you weren't about to go into oblivion) that it hindered the throwing action.

Others could peg the thing a long way. I was more concerned with personal survival. This was all done at the range.

The concussion effect was high and the wave could be seen for a couple of hundred metres at the range.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

I was in the Reserves, but never got to throw a live grenade... had to make do with practice ones. :( Easy to throw those since you can't kill yourself. Accidents with grenades are not a good thing to be a part of... six cadets were killed and many more injured in Quebec about the time I was in the Reserves when an instructor mixed up a live grenade with practice ones and used it to demonstrate what not to do.

My most fun was letting off a Sterling Submachinegun on fully automatic. (yes, that dates me)

At the time Canadians were equipped with FN's with semi-auto fire only... but they were great weapons anyway. But they had the Sterlings for assault weapons and for vehicle drivers.

Also got to use the Lee Enfield in Cadets... was the youngest Cadet to get my Marksman Badge in Canada at the time. (12 years)

Got bored and left when I discovered most of the training involved square bashing in the barracks.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Modern fragmentation grenades have a very thin outer casing which is unimportant as far as fragmentation is concerned, but inside, around the explosive, is a wound coil of thin wire which is pre-notched to allow the instantaneous creation of many fragments. Much more deadly.



If I made a grenade it would not have very much explosive at all... Just enough to send the innards about 2 or 3 feet.

Inside would be a length of pure new wool. with jelly beans threaded onto it. and maybe some soft fruit as well.

BANG !

JoyBomb MkI

It's kinda like a party popper... but with a small meal included.

[ATAG_Highseas]

And from personal experiance, I can tell you that grenades as not the easiest to throw long distance.

Instructors used to make one hold onto them longer then the fuse once you pulled the pin (and made sure that the grenade and pin were in the appropriate hand. Nothing worse than a soldier throwing the pin and hanging onto the grenade.) :doh:

The grip on the grenade was that tight (In the hope you weren't about to go into oblivion) that it hindered the throwing action.

Others could peg the thing a long way. I was more concerned with personal survival. This was all done at the range.

The concussion effect was high and the wave could be seen for a couple of hundred metres at the range.

Yeah.. I imagine the knowledge that you are holding a live bomb would have a colossal effect on your ability to throw.

I'd most likely end up slip-throwing it directly upwards...

:doh:

[ATAG_Pattle]

That vertical number has happened at the range I was at previously. Nil injuries fortunately.

I tried throwing them normaly, but ended up getting more distance with around arm bowling style.

Fun times. I had just turned 18. Buzz. I got to shoot the Australian sub machine gun. We only shot from the hip. Xouldnt hit a barn door with it.

All our kit was old Vietnam War equipment. I reckon the 24 hr rat packs were from that time as well!

[SIA_Sp00k]

The old F1 Pat. Yet they loved them in the jungle. Couldnt see for crap in there anyway so spray and pray. I have a Brit Mills grenade on my desk at work. Real but steamed out and pacified, has a tag on it with the number 1. and "Complaints dept. Take a number" written on its tray. And oldie but a goodie.

[Karaya]

It should also be noted that the Germans did eventually add a fragmentation sleeve to the Stielhandgrenate in the M43 model. This would have probably been one of the most deadly infantry grenades of the war because of the large amount of HE plus the frag sleeve. (Apart from anti-tank grenades of course.)

Starting from 1941 there was an optional cast iron sleeve available that could be attached to any regular Stielhandgranate as well as a similar modification for the Eihandgranate. This added a serious fragmentation effect to the till then blast-only German hand grenades. From what I know the Wehrmacht went for blast-only types of grenades initially as to reduce the chance of harming and injuring or even killing friendly troops.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/collections-display/494664d1365096506-stick-gren-collection-p1010628.jpg

http://www.lexpev.nl/images/m39fragsleeverick.jpg

Another popular field mod was the "Geballte Ladung" which basically consisted of a single Stielhandgranate with several loose warheads attached around it. This was mostly used as an impromptu mean to defeat lightly armored targets or to break through obstacles such as walls and clear paths through barbed wire fences.

https://splatus.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/m24-geballte-ladung.jpg

[Karaya]

If I made a grenade it would not have very much explosive at all... Just enough to send the innards about 2 or 3 feet.

Inside would be a length of pure new wool. with jelly beans threaded onto it. and maybe some soft fruit as well.

Seems like the optimal equipment for this "historic" battle (from BlackAdder) :thumbsup:


He was hailed as the 'Hero of Mboto Gorge' in 1890, where he had faced "ten thousand Watutsi warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and dry guava halves". He even saved the life of Douglas Haig (later Field Marshal Douglas Haig) when he was nearly killed by a pygmy woman with a sharpened mango.

[DOWNEAST]

Here is one from the "Great War" WWI. Not sure if it is German or Allied. Maybe some one can identify it.

29869

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Here is one from the "Great War" WWI. Not sure if it is German or Allied. Maybe some one can identify it.

29869

Are you sure that is a WWI grenade?

Looks like a shaped charge... like a bazooka/Piat/panzerfaust head.

[DOWNEAST]

Are you sure that is a WWI grenade?

Looks like a shaped charge... like a bazooka/Piat/panzerfaust head.

Buzz - It is 2.25 in. dia by 5 inch overall length. Fits in palm of hand. I obtained many years ago when I bought 1903 Springfield and P14 Enfield (30-06 cal. rifles from the same era). I would like to know more about it. Like to know which side ir was on.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Ok, then perhaps it is a rifle grenade... designed to be fired from a rifle with a special blank cartridge.

[DOWNEAST]

Ok, then perhaps it is a rifle grenade... designed to be fired from a rifle with a special blank cartridge.

Buzzsaw - I think you are correct! After searching around on the web, I now think it is a variant of the G503 rifle CN gas grenade. The impact fuse appears to be the same, only the rifle rod is missing that would screw into the opposite end. Here is a pic of mine showing the impact fuse structure and the rod collar for the opposite end. 29872

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=193062

[ATAG_Snarglepuss]

I was in the Reserves, but never got to throw a live grenade... had to make do with practice ones. :( Easy to throw those since you can't kill yourself. Accidents with grenades are not a good thing to be a part of... six cadets were killed and many more injured in Quebec about the time I was in the Reserves when an instructor mixed up a live grenade with practice ones and used it to demonstrate what not to do.

My most fun was letting off a Sterling Submachinegun on fully automatic. (yes, that dates me)

At the time Canadians were equipped with FN's with semi-auto fire only... but they were great weapons anyway. But they had the Sterlings for assault weapons and for vehicle drivers.

Also got to use the Lee Enfield in Cadets... was the youngest Cadet to get my Marksman Badge in Canada at the time. (12 years)

Got bored and left when I discovered most of the training involved square bashing in the barracks.

We are of a similar vintage Buzz. I remember the grenade accident because I was at CFB Cold Lake at the time.
We were summoned out for a memorial parade. It's been 40 plus years, but a think a service flight with one or more
of the deceased passed through.

The FN C1 A1. the Canadian SMG (Sterling), and the Browning Hi-power were the toys of my miss spent youth.
I was a dainty 18 year old Officer Cadet at the time. Two mags through the FN left a purple bruise on my
shoulder I only discovered lifting a beer in the officers mess that same evening. I remember the idiot proof extensions
along the barrel of the SMG. One up front to keep your finger from drifting over the muzzle and one in back to keep your
pinky finger out of the receiver/ejection port.

Fast forward 6 years and I was a city police constable. I responded to a disturbance call at a downtown bar. We found
that some drunken crazed members of the Princess Pat's from Curry Barracks had tossed one or more Flashbangs they
had smuggled in. When we arrived the smoke and aroma had settled but the place still had waxy yellow paper scattered everywhere.
No one was hurt (save having their ears cleaned out) but one of the barmaids had wet herself.:)

[ATAG_Pattle]

Was that effort in the bar your inspiration for the Snarglebomb??? :-)

[ATAG_Snarglepuss]

Was that effort in the bar your inspiration for the Snarglebomb??? :-)

I'd never considered that.
:glaughter: It may be the 109 drivers wet themselves.:)