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spacemarx
Aug-27-2017, 05:50
I just cannot seem to figure out how to keep up with the NPCs in the missions.

We take off, they do some circling pattern of the runway usually, then they head to the mission target.
No matter how I approach this, They always tear away from me.

If I take off and keep my throttle and prop pitch at 100%, I might keep up with them, but I'll overheat within minutes.

I just don't understand it. Why are the NPC planes so much faster than mine?

These are just the beginning missions (of the Redux RAF campaign), and I am somewhat familiar with speed and engine management, so please someone tell me what I'm doing wrong!!

spacemarx
Aug-27-2017, 08:05
So I just tested it - with prop pitch at 100%, throttle 110% with boost engaged, I take off right with them, but they just pull over a few minutes. Nothing I do helps. I even pushed it to the point of overheating, and I simply could not catch them.

This is seriously killing this game for me. Please someone help me out. WTF am I doing wrong?

III./ZG76_Saipan
Aug-27-2017, 09:08
AI planes will have perfect trim..are u keeping the bubble perfectly in the middle? play online and see if u have the same issue.

Akula93
Aug-27-2017, 11:07
I just cannot seem to figure out how to keep up with the NPCs in the missions.

We take off, they do some circling pattern of the runway usually, then they head to the mission target.
No matter how I approach this, They always tear away from me.

If I take off and keep my throttle and prop pitch at 100%, I might keep up with them, but I'll overheat within minutes.

I just don't understand it. Why are the NPC planes so much faster than mine?

These are just the beginning missions (of the Redux RAF campaign), and I am somewhat familiar with speed and engine management, so please someone tell me what I'm doing wrong!!

AI dont wory about overheat and engine menagment they have simple flying, so they can fly as fast as airplane is set to do. Maybe they have to big speed on waypoints and they run away from you. You have to open that mission in FMB and check their set speeds and reduce their speeds if its to fast for you. If you wont to play CloD in SP, you have to be do it your self guy most of time, planty strange and buged stuff in SP and AI in this game. Its not hard to work with FMB and as sone you try it you will have better xpiriance in your SP misions when you know how to edit stuff and AI to fit your needs.

spacemarx
Aug-27-2017, 18:34
AI dont wory about overheat and engine menagment they have simple flying, so they can fly as fast as airplane is set to do. Maybe they have to big speed on waypoints and they run away from you. You have to open that mission in FMB and check their set speeds and reduce their speeds if its to fast for you. If you wont to play CloD in SP, you have to be do it your self guy most of time, planty strange and buged stuff in SP and AI in this game. Its not hard to work with FMB and as sone you try it you will have better xpiriance in your SP misions when you know how to edit stuff and AI to fit your needs.

Thanks mate, this sounds like probably what I need to do.

I thought that the REDUX fixed the apparently broken vanilla campaign. I would have thought setting the AI to a realistic skill level would have been part of that.

What is FMB? I looked at the missions files and none are editable with a text editor, so I'm guessing FMB is something else?

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Aug-27-2017, 18:40
What is FMB? I looked at the missions files and none are editable with a text editor, so I'm guessing FMB is something else?

FMB = Acronym of Full Mission Builder ;)

You need to open the mission in it ( path: Main menu --> Extras --> Full mission editor --> Then select open mission\file in the cascade menu of the top left windows that will be displayed after you started the FMB )

https://s26.postimg.org/i81rzj8mh/Cattura_di_schermata_379.png

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Aug-27-2017, 18:49
Added reference image in the post above ;)

spacemarx
Aug-27-2017, 20:45
Wow, okay, this program is a tad confusing.

I think I figured out how to edit non-user created missions, but I'm not sure what I'm doing once I bring it up.

Sorry to be that guy, but where exactly in the editor would I see the AI plane's max speed, etc.?

1lokos
Aug-27-2017, 22:52
Wow, okay, this program is a tad confusing.


Confusing is the way used for edit Campaign missions, FMB don't "see" this missions. :D

spacemarx
Aug-28-2017, 01:27
Well I figured out how to edit the campaign missions, and what I need to edit, more or less.

If I drop the NPCs' skill level in anything, it has no real effect on the issue of them flying ridiculously fast.
If I edit the waypoints, both for the height and speed that the NPCs will be at that destination, I can fix the issue.

This just doesn't seem right to me though. The REDUX of the original RAF is said to be excellent. Among other things, it is meticulously thought out and aimed at making the campaign fun, historical, doable, and in no way broken like the original. This is pretty god damn broken if it takes a computer (autopilot) flooring the engine and having perfect trim just to keep up in the second mission.

Surely all those people who said that this REDUX is so good didn't have to go through and edit every waypoint, of every squadron, of every mission. And no one thought to mention this or post their fix? Really? I find that hard to believe. I must be doing something wrong.

Akula93
Aug-28-2017, 06:01
Lets take that secound mission for example:

From original mission your fligt data:
[BoB_RAF_F_FatCat_Early.03_Way]
TAKEOFF 104695.42 199197.36 0 0
NORMFLY 106987.65 190553.02 1000.00 300.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109375.05 181306.65 2300.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109077.61 175147.78 2300.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 81425.34 168785.32 2300.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 96563.10 164264.12 2300.00 350.00
NORMFLY 88962.20 191317.05 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 98630.54 201405.33 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 103446.20 202126.64 500.00 300.00
LANDING 104441.15 199838.17 500.00 300.00


From redux, same mission:
[BoB_RAF_F_607Sqn_Early.03_Way]
TAKEOFF 104695.42 199197.36 0 0
NORMFLY 106987.65 190553.02 5000.00 300.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109375.05 181306.65 7000.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109077.61 175147.78 7200.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 81425.34 168785.32 7200.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 96563.10 164264.12 7200.00 350.00
NORMFLY 88962.20 191317.05 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 98630.54 201405.33 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 103446.20 202126.64 500.00 300.00
LANDING 104441.15 199838.17 500.00 300.00

You see how its just changed altitudes, and speed is left same 350kmh indicated, what works good on 2300m, human can falow, human cant do on 7000m. AI will go max alowed speed there to try to reach that 350kmh, and you can calculate whats 350kh indicated in true at 7000m thats around 500kmh, and Hurricane cant do that, AI Hurricane is trying to fly at that speed at that altitude so they will do their max, and they can do it easy as AI dont have to be limited by engine menagment and owerheat, and human controled airplane cant to that for long time, just see how autopilot AI controls your airplane.
No mather what you do to your airplane if you dont change that speed set on waypoints you cant fly with them in formation without autopilot AI controling your hurricane.

I cant keep up with them like you cant, they leve me 4-5km behined at point of attack. So i just adjust missions and play normaly or used autopilot untill action.
Why other people have no prob or say its great i dont now, but i have same prob like you if i wont to fly with AI formatons by fully controling my airplane to its maximum.
In SP you can fly how every you wont, so my guess would be people just dont bather falowing AI and have no prob with it, or they put their airplane on autopilot until action (more likely, untick no AI control in realisam to get autopilot alowed in missions) because then you can also advance time and skip boring parts faster, or fly without realisam settings turned on for engines. I can just say what helped me.
Making and testing missions for SP is not easy in any game and it takes long time to get them right so human can do what ai is doing in most situations.

1lokos
Aug-28-2017, 11:24
spacemarx

IL-2 BoS is said that IA use the same Flight Model, engine management...used by players - what tax the CPU and limit number of planes per mission- and so can't do "magic" movements during combat (at some degree).

But there IA has difficult to maintain formation with player, generally lag behind and are able to keep only a loose V formation.

Probable the ideal solution is something between this and IL-2:46, since in CloD IA result inferior of '46.

CloD IA need be redone - and make a good IA take time and programmer skill/knowledge, good IA in flight games take years to be polished, e.g. the ones of BoB:WoV, WOFF, both single player only, so the focus is not "distracted" by multiplayer features. :D

On CloD "defense" can be said that what have kept the game alive after their official "death" was the multiplayer side. Good singleplayer maybe, some day...

spacemarx
Aug-30-2017, 02:46
Lets take that secound mission for example:

From original mission your fligt data:
[BoB_RAF_F_FatCat_Early.03_Way]
TAKEOFF 104695.42 199197.36 0 0
NORMFLY 106987.65 190553.02 1000.00 300.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109375.05 181306.65 2300.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109077.61 175147.78 2300.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 81425.34 168785.32 2300.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 96563.10 164264.12 2300.00 350.00
NORMFLY 88962.20 191317.05 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 98630.54 201405.33 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 103446.20 202126.64 500.00 300.00
LANDING 104441.15 199838.17 500.00 300.00


From redux, same mission:
[BoB_RAF_F_607Sqn_Early.03_Way]
TAKEOFF 104695.42 199197.36 0 0
NORMFLY 106987.65 190553.02 5000.00 300.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109375.05 181306.65 7000.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 109077.61 175147.78 7200.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 81425.34 168785.32 7200.00 350.00
AATTACK_BOMBERS 96563.10 164264.12 7200.00 350.00
NORMFLY 88962.20 191317.05 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 98630.54 201405.33 1000.00 350.00
NORMFLY 103446.20 202126.64 500.00 300.00
LANDING 104441.15 199838.17 500.00 300.00

You see how its just changed altitudes, and speed is left same 350kmh indicated, what works good on 2300m, human can falow, human cant do on 7000m. AI will go max alowed speed there to try to reach that 350kmh, and you can calculate whats 350kh indicated in true at 7000m thats around 500kmh, and Hurricane cant do that, AI Hurricane is trying to fly at that speed at that altitude so they will do their max, and they can do it easy as AI dont have to be limited by engine menagment and owerheat, and human controled airplane cant to that for long time, just see how autopilot AI controls your airplane.
No mather what you do to your airplane if you dont change that speed set on waypoints you cant fly with them in formation without autopilot AI controling your hurricane.

I cant keep up with them like you cant, they leve me 4-5km behined at point of attack. So i just adjust missions and play normaly or used autopilot untill action.
Why other people have no prob or say its great i dont now, but i have same prob like you if i wont to fly with AI formatons by fully controling my airplane to its maximum.
In SP you can fly how every you wont, so my guess would be people just dont bather falowing AI and have no prob with it, or they put their airplane on autopilot until action (more likely, untick no AI control in realisam to get autopilot alowed in missions) because then you can also advance time and skip boring parts faster, or fly without realisam settings turned on for engines. I can just say what helped me.
Making and testing missions for SP is not easy in any game and it takes long time to get them right so human can do what ai is doing in most situations.


Okay, this helped me understand what's going on. Sometimes you just need to be told you're not going crazy. It still seems quite bizarre to me to put in all this effort to rejig the vanilla campaigns, promote it as a rebalanced, unbroken alternative, only to break it by setting the altitude/speed too high. What's the point?

I guess I'll go through and edit them all then. God damn this is going to be time consuming.

I can post my edits when I'm done if someone wants them. I'm surprised someone hasn't made this REDUX playable yet but different priorities I guess.

Cheers for your help.

Buddy
Sep-10-2017, 19:27
Great post!!

I also have experienced persistent inability to keep up with the AI group.

The FMB program sounded very promising but, I cannot find it anywhere on my computer.

My CLOD files are located as follows:

c:/steamvalve/steamapps/common/IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover

I've looked in every folder, no FMB is found. Please help with locating. Is there a way to download the program if I don't have it?

Thanks guys...

Buddy

1lokos
Sep-10-2017, 20:48
I've looked in every folder, no FMB is found.


CloD FMB (Full Mission Builder) is embed on game.

On main menu click in Extras, then Full Mission Builder, load the map and have fun.

You can test missions direct from inside FMB, but is not advised do this many times because cause memory issues, like glowing artifacts, that can be cured re-starting the game.

CloD FMB is easy to use like FMB in il-2:46, basically "point and click", but... :D

Mission events, victories conditions... need scripts in C++. Example:



using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using maddox.game;
using maddox.game.world;
using maddox.GP;

public class Mission : AMission
{
public override void Inited()
{
base.Inited();
this.MissionNumberListener = -1;
}

public override void OnActorDead(int missionNumber, string shortName, AiActor actor, List<DamagerScore> damages)
{
base.OnActorDead(missionNumber, shortName, actor, damages);

if (actor is AiGroundActor)
{ // removed killed cars etc
Timeout((5 * 60), () => // remove actor 5 minutes after killed
{ // remove killed ground actors (cars etc)
if (actor != null & actor is AiGroundActor)
{
(actor as AiGroundActor).Destroy();
}
});
}

if (actor is AiAircraft)
{ // remove killed aircraft
Timeout((10 * 60), () => // remove aircraft 10 minutes after killed
{
if (actor != null & actor is AiAircraft)
{
(actor as AiAircraft).Destroy();
}
});
}
}
}



This script supposedly despawn a AI aircraft after landing, but I never managed to work in my missions... 'cause I am C++ "illiterate". :doh:

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Sep-11-2017, 08:09
This script supposedly despawn a AI aircraft after landing, but I never managed to work in my missions... 'cause I am C++ "illiterate". :doh:

I'm the same here but if you need tips about how to let it work in your missions contact my team mate named Stab I./JG 51 - Gallowitsch because he have implemented it successfully in our custom build training missions so I'm pretty sure that he can help you about this matter. ;)

Akula93
Sep-11-2017, 08:43
One more important thing is that missions you see to edit in FullMissionBuilder, are located in your \Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\missions folder. And not all missions in game are in that folder.
Missions from campaign, training and quick missions you dont see in FMB, and they are located in your Steam\SteamApps\common\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\parts\bob\mission folder. If you wont to edit thouse you need to copy thouse mission files in folders that FMB can see (located in Documents... path), and after you edit them return them back to original location (in Steam... path).

Buddy
Sep-23-2017, 01:48
One more important thing is that missions you see to edit in FullMissionBuilder, are located in your \Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\missions folder. And not all missions in game are in that folder.
Missions from campaign, training and quick missions you dont see in FMB, and they are located in your Steam\SteamApps\common\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\parts\bob\mission folder. If you wont to edit thouse you need to copy thouse mission files in folders that FMB can see (located in Documents... path), and after you edit them return them back to original location (in Steam... path).

Thanks Akula, for finding the quick and training missions. Just what I was looking for!

'Buddy'

spacemarx
Oct-15-2017, 02:28
I only just saw that this thread went active again. Sorry to not offer my assistance, Buddy - have you got it figured out now? I'm happy to help if not.

Currently, I have edited half the missions in the Redux right up to where you transfer to Manston air base to fly spitfires.

My edits - the Redux redux, if you will - do indeed make the missions flyable. I have painstakingly edited every AI aircraft for half the missions, including both enemy and friendly AI, to give them a little more variation (they were too generic), as well as editing the speed and altitudes that the AI will attempt to go.
I am still experimenting with this, but it appears as though the missions with the Hurricane have been set at an altitude that is 1000ft higher than it should be. This is the main culprit for AI getting away from us. The max speeds also come into play, but they are not as straight forward as being, say, 10km/h too fast.

I will keep editing to make it perfect, but real life has stopped work on the redux redux for now.

I am quite happy to upload my edits to this thread or somewhere else on the TF website, if someone just wants to show me how.

I would love it if someone else had a crack at it. The major issue lies with the Hurricane missions. The hardest mission to fix has actually been the second mission... Absolute nightmare getting that right - fix that and you can fix any of them.

And just to be clear, by fix, I mean that I should be able to fly in formation with my squadron, without them either flooring the gas, or flying at such an unrealistically low altitude and low speed that a biplane could keep up.

Anyway, let me know, happy to post my changes!

1lokos
Oct-15-2017, 13:32
I am quite happy to upload my edits to this thread or somewhere else on the TF website, if someone just wants to show me how.



It's easy, just follow instructions in this page:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?categoryid=8

spacemarx
Oct-20-2017, 20:00
It's easy, just follow instructions in this page:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?categoryid=8

Ah, thanks for that Lokos.

I get the feeling that I should talk to the original creators of the redux. If I publish my edits in the downloads section it would look too much like I'm plagiarising. Also, I've only edited some mission files, you would still need the redux install file.

I'm going to get in touch with the authors and I'll post my edits once they say that it's okay.