For people like me who cant fly the 109..

[BOO]

So... Dynamo and Fall Rot.....no E4s....ya de ya.

Pretty sure its all been said many many times but the absence of the Automatic makes these maps harder no impossible for me to enjoy as an aspiring 109 Hartman (I have an iron cross I cut from the back of a cornflakes packet just waiting).

I cant fight all that well in an E4 so add the clonky prop a management of the E1 and E3 and I'm sooo outclassed that thought of getting tonked sees me considering the ironing pile as an alternative. So yes, Im crap. And yes I'm asking for stuff to make me less crap. The problem compounds when server number are low and TS wingmen are sparse.

Given the imagined timelines there really isn't an argument for excluding E4s (yes I know it wasnt about and the auto is better than it was in real life) when the Reds have the water wings of Constant speed props fitted to their Spits and Hurris. These weren't about either.As I understand it, these were not generally available until the end of June 1940 - some time after these scenarios -

So if the blues cant have the E4 perhaps make the Reds take Mk1s and DH520s.

Thanks for reading


EDIT - just to add that both these maps were favourites of mine when flying red.

[Vlerkies]

Havent flown in eons, really miss it, but when I did even if in an E4 I always used manual prop. Found the auto prop E4 very laggy in it's response to the point that one knew you were loosing out on a little bit of oomff.
You just need 2 buttons on your stick for the prop pitch, and then 'listen' to the engine rpm like it is a car or bike, the tone tells you everything. You dont even have to look at the rpm gauge eventually.
Once you get used to that, before you even get into a manoeuvre you will be almost automatically starting to adjust the pitch accordingly anticipating the engine response, as you would with any vehicle

Requires your constant attention, but becomes second nature soon enough.

E1 is God's machine. The Luftwaffe Hurricane if you will.
:salute:

[BOO]

Havent flown in eons, really miss it, but when I did even if in an E4 I always used manual prop. Found the auto prop E4 very laggy in it's response to the point that one knew you were loosing out on a little bit of oomff.
You just need 2 buttons on your stick for the prop pitch, and then 'listen' to the engine rpm like it is a car or bike, the tone tells you everything. You dont even have to look at the rpm gauge eventually.
Once you get used to that, before you even get into a manoeuvre you will be almost automatically starting to adjust the pitch accordingly anticipating the engine response, as you would with any vehicle

Requires your constant attention, but becomes second nature soon enough.

E1 is God's machine. The Luftwaffe Hurricane if you will.
:salute:

You missed my point Verk - I'm crap :-))))))

I see guys throwin the 109 about like its an F22 but I'm far from that. My hearing is the first to go when the balloon goes up too. I know the Auto gives you less oomph in places but its still a damn sight more oomph than I get trying. I know I'm supposed to be all manual and be some steely eyes uber killer in the 109 but I'm not. And it would still be nice to have the option to just enjoy the game given every map provides the Reds the option of lording it up in the closest thing to a fully automatic plane the game has.

[Vlerkies]

Just a few flights out of the combat zone, online though cause offline the gauges are buggy. Some climbs and dives, rinse and repeat, and listen and watch, its not to hectic but requires more attention.

Don't be to hard on yourself.
The story of the 109 since ever has been handicapped ceiling , nerfed canons and 4.3 flying tinderbox, so the worst you could do is cook the engine yourself. :)
I suspect in the next update canons will be all the rage all of a sudden and 303's not so much.

So when you do get one over the reds its all that much better.
:salute:

[Tibsun]

Engine RPM is #1 priority of all 109's and 110's, you have to look at any of them, it's not like if the E-4 doesn't need attention.

If you're unsure, just reduce throtlle once in a time. It's still just the pitch, if you stay at the same speed, nothing speaks against reducing throttle instead.

[BOO]

Had a night in the Bomber server with the E1 and E4. I like (I think I prefer) the 1 and, yes, the prop management thing is sinking in.

However

I still think a little auto would be nice to have on all the maps (as a crutch for those of us with less ability) given the Red side have the rotols.

[ATAG_Torian]

One of the difficulties of a full realism flight sim is getting to grips with realistic plane sets. I stand to be corrected but from my limited reading the early Battle of France and BoB 109s were mostly E3s (not sure how prolific E1s were by then).
So when a map maker wants a reasonable degree of historicity for an early phase of the BoF or BoB we get E3s, Hurries and Spit MkIs. I actually like these maps flying either red or blue. Like the rest of the CloD learning curves, fully manual rpm management is pretty steep but is very satisfying once u get a handle on it (after frying 3 or 4 hundred of Daimler Benz's finest). Be sure u can hear ur engine. U will get an ear for when it is winding up and down. Have ur rpm control close to u, preferably on ur stick and get into the habit of keeping an eye on the rpm and temp gauges. All this in the heat of combat is simply practice, practice, practice. If u are diving, wind it down. If u are climbing, wind it up. General prudential rule is prolonged high rpm is bad. Personally I am fairly conservative with ATA (throttle) settings as full throttle is another way push ur engine too hard for too long. After a fight u may want to just check ur 6, not for a bandit but to make sure u ain't venting from both sides. Very frustrating when u have congratulated urself on surviving a difficult fight only to look behind at the steam blowing out ur rads. Stick with it BOO as it has it rewards once u have gone thru the obligatory MEGA frustration.

As a side note there is a passage in a book "Luftwaffe Pilots' Battle of Britain" where a LW pilot describes his misery flying an E4 with the new automated rpm. Evidently there was no option to turn it off and try as he might he couldn't get the speed out of this plane that he needed because the auto management always maintained conservative settings. I think it is fair to say that many who fly E4s use the auto sparingly anyway...freaking useless for takeoff n landing and still no guarantees u won't burn it out even on auto during a fight.

[BOO]

So when a map maker wants a reasonable degree of historicity for an early phase of the BoF or BoB we get E3s, Hurries and Spit MkIs. .

but not Mk1a's and Rotol Hurricanes - all this said, if we took them away there would be A) an outcry and B) a ruined map C) a lot of bruised egos

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

My suggestion, in the case that you are not yet using it, is to use Virtual Cockpit on a second monitor because it helps a lot in keeping more easily an eye on the RPMs\engine management.
In addition if you want to have some training about the early Bf 109 variants engine\RPMs management together feel free to contact me anytime both here or on TeamSpeak3! ;)

We are Luftwaffe pilots we can manage everything...a couple of teabags flying around it's not a big problem!!! :)

[PanTast]

Aside from all the discussion:
both maps are created by Hans Gruber who refuses to let us change the maps. Not even the time of year for a single weekend.

o7

[MightyBouff]

Aside from all the discussion:
both maps are created by Hans Gruber who refuses to let us change the maps. Not even the time of year for a single weekend.

o7

I'm guessing it is a lot of work to make new missions?

I'd love to see airfields go out of action not only because they have been bombed, but because all the planes have been lost in action (the final airfield would have unlimited and could only be bombed). This also allows for limiting the number of types of places which I'd also like to see (though unlimited bombers/heavy fighters) and lots of other features I'm sure others could come up with!

[BOO]

Thank for all you replies, offers and advice.

Ill stick with it.

Learning to stick to an ATA (for the most part) then use the RPM control seems the way forward. Shame the Warthog Throttle uses a piece of broken glass for its china hat! I feel a remapping coming on.

S!

BOO

[Vlerkies]

Thank for all you replies, offers and advice.

Ill stick with it.

Learning to stick to an ATA (for the most part) then use the RPM control seems the way forward. Shame the Warthog Throttle uses a piece of broken glass for its china hat! I feel a remapping coming on.

S!

BOO

On the hog I use the 2 pinky switches on the stick for prop pitch, works a treat and easy to use even in the middle of the action.

[BOO]

On the hog I use the 2 pinky switches on the stick for prop pitch, works a treat and easy to use even in the middle of the action.

I swapped the prop to my thumb 4 way (Fwd and bwd) - Why I didn't think of that before I don't know -a lot easier and more instinctive....... second nature?...we not quite... but its coming.

AUTO IS FOR SISSYS!

[MezzA]

glad to hear your getting the most out of it m8 ive always had you down as a good pilot and manual prop pitch is hard at first but vital, now i only blow rads/cease engine if i forget the rads on takeoff
once you think you got the hang of it will continue to give you griff in dogfights esp if your rolling back the power to prevent engine damage, but over time that will become less and less as you learn the limits of the e-1 and 3.
occasionally im surprised how much stress i put on the 109 running at 2500+ rpms with 2/3s rads chasing a hurricane knowing that shes crying out at me as i squeese every ounce of what she can give me.
when you get that feeling you know your on the edge.

*auto is for pilots manual is for aces

[ATAG_Flare]

*auto is for pilots manual is for aces

Guess I'm just a pilot!

I can still fly the E-3 and E-1 but can never seem to keep on top of the RPMs. Always seems a bit too low or too high. I think it would be easier if it had a % thing like the Spit Mk. I (not Ia) or DH5-20 prop. Also on that note it would be nice if the 109 water rad had a % indicator.

[MightyBouff]

I swapped the prop to my thumb 4 way (Fwd and bwd) - Why I didn't think of that before I don't know -a lot easier and more instinctive....... second nature?...we not quite... but its coming.

AUTO IS FOR SISSYS!

I use the little axs on the throttle (right hand side, not sure how best to describe it) for prop pitch, gives me really nice detailed control. Admittedly 50% of the axis is wasted but meh.

[BOO]

I use the little axs on the throttle (right hand side, not sure how best to describe it) for prop pitch, gives me really nice detailed control. Admittedly 50% of the axis is wasted but meh.

I stand to be corrected but in the 109 I don't think that works like on the Spit and Hurri. The range of the RPM control is very large so buttons are the only option. What I seem to remember happening if you assigned an axis to them was that the axis worked at it extremes then cut of as soon as it was moved from them. Its the same for water rad on the 109.

I may be getting it wrong but using what I interpreted Torian as saying (Thanks Mate), I use the ATA (Throttle) as the "Gear" and the rpm control as the fine control. In shallow attacks I don't need to worry about the Throttle and in steeper longer descents to only need to worry about setting the rough position for the throttle ATA for when I start to power on again or cutting it to stop over revs in very fast dives. This seems to be working for me.

@flare - I don't think that the percentage thing would be of much use given it varies so much dependent upon speed, alt and ATA. You only know whats going on from the RPM and sound.

the rad indicator on the wing is a pretty fast reference once you know its size and range although ive found the difference between 1/2 and "just a tick under" half makes a big difference to the temps!.

And I may be a placebo but every 109 is a bit of a dog in comparison to the E1.

[Vlerkies]

And I may be a placebo but every 109 is a bit of a dog in comparison to the E1.

Gods machine I told ye :)
Throttle for main ATA setting, prop pitch was more my gear as speed/AoA changes with minor throttle adjustments.

Its much slower than the E4's but more nimble with lots of ammo. Don't be afraid to squeeze that trigger liberally.
Dual stage trigger setup on the hog, lead with the nose guns (first detent) 2nd detent all guns for when you have them bracketed or at correct convergence. Lots more ammo in the nose.
Now reduce the fuel you carry, especially for those quick and nasty mid channel dust ups, and you will surprise a few Red pilots with your ability to turn with them, at least initially.

Keep your airspeed up, try not let the wingslats deploy in your manoeuvres as it kills your energy, and always try have 1000m spare in case you need to try and dive and run.
From memory 2000-3800m was my preferred sweet spot, higher and the supercharger starts to struggle to keep up, you can see that in the ATA gauge dropping off.

:salute: