Hurricane - The Real Victor of the Battle of Britain

[ATAG_Vampire]

Interesting article about the Hurricane and its role during the Battle of Britain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5277007/How-rugged-hurricane-masterpiece-strength.html

Nice to see 'Pat' Pattle mentioned along with Douglas Bader in the first diagram.

The new book by Leo McKinstry Victor of the Battle of Britain, which this is taken from, looks interesting and worth a read. :thumbsup:

o7 :salute:

[farley]

Good find Vamps!

So what are the thoughts about this?

If all of the Hurricanes were replaced by Spitfires during The Battle, would the outcome have been different?

Did the Huri win it for the Brits, and would they have been toast if only Spits were involved?

What if there were only Hurricanes flying?

Did the combination of the two fighters make it the best of both worlds?

[ATAG_Lewis]

I think the jury will be out for a long time on those questions...

[DerDa]

Good find Vamps!

So what are the thoughts about this?

If all of the Hurricanes were replaced by Spitfires during The Battle, would the outcome have been different?

Did the Huri win it for the Brits, and would they have been toast if only Spits were involved?

What if there were only Hurricanes flying?

Did the combination of the two fighters make it the best of both worlds?

It's the pilots not the planes that win a fight :)

[ATAG_Highseas]

It's the pilots not the planes that win a fight :)

Damn !

[ATAG_Highseas]

Nice to see 'Pat' Pattle mentioned along with Douglas Badger in the first diagram.



so er... tell me more about Mr Badger...

:coolio:

[DerDa]

Damn !

I know.
It's embarrasing for me as well ...

[ATAG_Ezzie]

<sigh>

Nice to see the Hurri get some recognition but i cant help but feel its another simplistic media article attributing the victory to a single aircraft type.

Its make for boring trainspotter articles for some (not me) but imo the reasons the RAF prevented the Luftwaffe achieving its goals were varied and were more than just one aircraft type. As one example (there are more and everyone prob has their own thoughts and as Lew says the jury will be out for a long time) there is the British IADS-type set up. Britain employed one of the world's earliest examples of an integrated air defence system (IADS) type system which mean they did not have to fly standing patrols in order to attack incoming raids. Without this even had the RAF been totally equipped with Spitfires they probably would have struggled as they prob couldnt have placed defending fighters in the right place at the right time to deal with the raids and would have used up a lot of fuel and pilot fatigue credits in flying these standing patrols. Even with this IADS pilot availability had became critical due to causalities and fatigue by Sep and this would be been magnified and probably occurred much earlier had an IADS type system not been present.

This IADS type system relied on people - command and control, comms technicians, plotters etc etc. And its more than just 'radar won the BoB' as well. Comms infrastructure that had all been developed during the preceding 2 - 4 years based to a large extent on Dowding's vision played a huge role as did the Y service. Prob not an easy story to tell/sell and get people excited compared to the 'Hurricane was the victor' but its a more accurate perspective.

Its seemingly boring to the general media but it was a team effort, rather than just one aircraft type.

Anyway i feel better for the whine - i do like the Hurricane and flew it a lot in the old IL-2 including defending Malta. Burns nicely in-game too....

Ezzie

[ATAG_Vampire]

so er... tell me more about Mr Badger...

:coolio:

Wasn't he a friend of Toady in 'Wind in the Willows' ?

Thank you Seas for pointing that out. Who knows what might happen 'finger trouble' wise if I posted something about Stanford TUCK?!!!!!! :thumbsup:

o7 :salute:

[ATAG_Vampire]

<sigh>

Nice to see the Hurri get some recognition but i cant help but feel its another simplistic media article attributing the victory to a single aircraft type.

Ezzie

I think you are probably right Ezzie.

However to be honest it is nice to see stuff about these wonderful aircraft and what the men that flew them did.

I don't know what it is like in Australia but now there are very few surviving World War 2 veterans left alive and the way history is now taught in schools younger generations have little knowledge of this conflict. So in some way these simplistic media articles do hopefully have some effect.

Reading the book 'Victor of the Battle of Britain' would also perhaps be beneficial as the article was based on the book. I have yet to do that. :thumbsup:

o7 :salute:

[Dai-San]

I love the WWII pilot who was quoted "if I wanted to fly I would pick the Spitfire but if I had to fight I would pick the Hurricane"

[BOO]

Chain Home and piss poor Axis strategies anyone?

[ATAG_Ezzie]

I think you are probably right Ezzie.

However to be honest it is nice to see stuff about these wonderful aircraft and what the men that flew them did.

I don't know what it is like in Australia but now there are very few surviving World War 2 veterans left alive and the way history is now taught in schools younger generations have little knowledge of this conflict. So in some way these simplistic media articles do hopefully have some effect.

Reading the book 'Victor of the Battle of Britain' would also perhaps be beneficial as the article was based on the book. I have yet to do that. :thumbsup:

o7 :salute:

Vanpire,

After a good sleep and a reread of my post im sorry if my post came across as being in any way critical of your post alerting us to the article. That wasnt my intent and im sorry if you took it that way.

Agree its good to see articles like this for all those reasons and trainspotters like me should be thankful that they are still writing stories on this and not nit pick.

When i become a media mogul i will change things though....

Ezzie

[ATAG_Vampire]

It's all cool Ezzie, no probs mate.

I don't rate newspapers or news providers much these days either.

Anything, however small, that relates to things like this is worth a view. Some are of course a lot better than others. :thumbsup:

o7 Vamps :salute:

[lil_head]

They were both great aircraft. The Hurricane is one of the most underatted aircraft of the war. The spit and hurri complemented each other to counter the luftwaffe raids. But probably the real victor of the battle of britain was the change to bomb cities instead of airfields.

[DerDa]

Whatever happened in history, it never had one single reason.
History is much too complex for such simple explanations. It is always lots and lots of things that come together at just the right (or wrong) point of time.

[Chawk]

Hawker Hurricanes are very good planes, but according to the late Wing Commander George C Unwin (Spitfire Ace, Veteran of Operation Dynamo and Battle of Britain)
He claims that and I quote

"If we hadn't have the Spitfire in 1940, then I think it would have been very very bad in fact we would have lost the war I am sure we would." He also said the Spitfire was "the perfect flying machine".

(Source: Jane's WW2 fighters. An old but great video game that came out in 1998)

[No.119_Bruv]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGp4DvFEgh8

mitchell and webb clip, :D

Have to say though whilst I share the above opinions, whenever I find myself in a Hurricane in Clod and the luft boys stick around for a fight it does just fine!

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

Vanpire,

After a good sleep and a reread of my post im sorry if my post came across as being in any way critical of your post alerting us to the article. That wasnt my intent and im sorry if you took it that way.

Agree its good to see articles like this for all those reasons and trainspotters like me should be thankful that they are still writing stories on this and not nit pick.

When i become a media mogul i will change things though....

Ezzie

Don't be upset Ezzie...these articles are only RAF propaganda :):):)