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View Full Version : Progress Update 01/04/13: Screenies



ATAG_Bliss
Jan-04-2013, 20:28
Hello everyone,

As I alluded to in another post, the main focus of our 1st patch is correcting the flight models that have plagued the sim since it's inception.

As most people know, the sim has had altitude bug in the atmospheric engine since it's release. This made for some obvious flight model problems and effectively made realistic high altitude combat impossible. Well lets just say that the altitude bug is squashed. In doing so, this has created more bugs, which when squashed, created more bugs etc., that required fixing. It's no wonder the dev team couldn't afford to spend months working on these sorts of problems. I would hate to know how many hours of work has been spent correcting the environment in which the planes fly in. There are guys, quite simply, working their asses off to please you, and thankfully, we're lucky to have some amazing programmers.

Needless to say the guys are hard at work on the individual flight models, and soon enough may be available for the beta testers to take the reigns and verify/adjust some final settings. This is good news and a huge hurdle overcome. But that is the main intent with patch 1. Once everyone can breath a sigh of relief then the real fun starts - never ending bug fixing, more bug fixing, content, ?, ?, :D

Please don't ask when this will be ready! It could be 2 weeks. It could be 2 years. But I think everyone will be happy with the final outcome.

Here's a few very much "work in progress" screenies that should wet the appetite.

1349135013511352

Catseye
Jan-04-2013, 20:42
Holy Crap!!!!

ATAG_Deacon
Jan-04-2013, 20:44
Bliss,

Thank you for the update! And many, many heartfelt thanks to the guys doing the grunt work on this! :salute:



~S~

Deacon

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-04-2013, 20:46
What Cats and Deak said! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

:)

Gorgon14
Jan-04-2013, 20:49
Bliss,

Thank you for the update! And many, many heartfelt thanks to the guys doing the grunt work on this! :salute:



~S~

Deacon

Big X2 for sure!

Doc
Jan-04-2013, 21:00
Thank you for the great news Bliss and Co. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

ATAG_Colander
Jan-04-2013, 21:02
By the way, for those wondering....

1353

Mastiff
Jan-04-2013, 21:26
tell all those guys working on this A BIG F'en Thank you!! I knew if this went out 3rd party the more people working on this to raid the bugs. the Community could get it done. :thumbsup:

coolhand3011
Jan-04-2013, 23:52
Awesome work guys, thanks for the update! I only wish I knew how to program or code. I'm really looking forward to what comes of this

Ctrl e
Jan-05-2013, 00:11
Sensational. Super work fellas. Anything the non- computer literate can do to help?

skouras
Jan-05-2013, 02:08
the community will never let this sim to die
in fact will it make it better
a very big salute and thanks guys from Greece...

Chivas
Jan-05-2013, 03:21
Thanks for continuing the work on game engine with so much potential. :thumbsup:

~Salute~
JG27_Chivas

miky
Jan-05-2013, 04:08
It could be 2 weeks.

:) :thumbsup:

Many thanks to all those guys who working on patch 1!

ATAG_Naz
Jan-05-2013, 04:10
Bloody Hell .... Amazing! Thanks guys... I tip my hat to you. :thumbsup:

92Sqn.Strings (GZ-O)
Jan-05-2013, 04:25
much joy in 92Sqn TS

ATAG_Bliss
Jan-05-2013, 04:38
It's pretty at 9km as well :)

1355

ATAG_Septic
Jan-05-2013, 04:42
Thanks for the update Bliss.

This is great news. I'm so very glad that this sim is not yet dead. The server has been very busy recently and I'm sure the optimism created by this fantastic effort is the cause.

Thanks to all of you clever chaps who are putting many precious spare hours into doing the work.


Septic.

Flyingblind
Jan-05-2013, 05:18
That is quite stunning and amazing news. Makes 2013 look very much brighter. Hope it all keeps IC777 on their toes with their new project too. Thanks guys.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-05-2013, 05:36
It's pretty at 9km as well :)

1355

Win!

Lensman
Jan-05-2013, 06:09
Brilliant stuff!

I envy you guys for the 'fun' you must be having...

wish I had the skills to contribute!

Thank you for your hard work.

:)

il_corleone
Jan-05-2013, 06:12
The fun is going to start soon, this is only the begining , Thanks to all guys to made this possible, Hope one day can give you some hugs! Thanks!

Screamadelica
Jan-05-2013, 06:20
Great work. Thank you to everyone who is working on this project. Here's to an amazing 2013! :thumbsup:

Taff In Exile
Jan-05-2013, 07:36
Blimey!! some great work going on it seems behind closed doors, I cant wait to see the fruits of your labour!
Once again ATAG show their true quality, thanks guys :salute:

Ohms
Jan-05-2013, 09:17
All I can say is WOW and thanks guys.:)

Ohmie

Meusli
Jan-05-2013, 09:38
Nice one guys, thank you for sharing and caring.

71st_AH_Vertigo
Jan-05-2013, 10:09
:salute:

I salute you, gentlemen.

This is gonna be awesome!

V

JG52_Krupi
Jan-05-2013, 10:25
Now thats very cool!

:thumbsup:

skouras
Jan-05-2013, 10:35
Hey Krupi what's up buddy nice to see you here..

workky
Jan-05-2013, 10:42
Awesome work
I know how much work this is for someone to do. It consumes most for your time. I for one appreciate your time or whoever is putting the time in on this. I do not fly as much as I would like to, hopefully that will change, but when I do fly, I fly on ATAG. Deacon can be quite persuasive
I am completely amazed that support for this game has been dropped into someone else's lap.

The way I understand it, 777 the makers of whatever that WW1 slight sim is, picked it up. I don't like their stuff too much. I'm glad someone has taken the burden on and decided to do something about it. Maybe we can have the game the way it should have been in the first place.
Appreciate the time and effort, THANKS

Marco
Jan-05-2013, 10:47
I said it in a previous thread, so just to reiterate...Holy Sh*t Guys you are totally amazing!! :stunned:

...and the wire frame of that 'little rowing boat' that ATAG_Colander put up looks most promising. :thumbsup:

I was saddened, like many others, when the plug was pulled on this project. I understand that to get it right would have taken more time, resources and money than was economical considering the current size of the flight sim market. As has been mentioned there were just so many bugs that needed squashing, that I am pleased that there does indeed seem to be a future for this amazing sim. My admiration and thanks to those who are willing to take on this project and and see it through to the end.

A Happy New Year to us all, I just wish I had the talent to assist.

~S~

Geier
Jan-05-2013, 11:17
Hello ! Thx for the great work. Hope Spit's altitude will be the same because irl Bader has flown at 40k.
Also I have a small question. Is it real to turn the graphical gamma to the first patch time.

This is what we have now - ROF hdr horizon and "plastik" gamma style and swampy sea - awful
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5636/17290046.7/0_b3448_6a3eccd4_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734280/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734280/
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4138/17290046.7/0_b344b_2a1b8a66_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734283/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734283/

and what we need
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5634/17290046.7/0_b345c_df286a93_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734300/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734300/
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4132/17290046.7/0_b344c_b4d7019d_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734284/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734284/
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4123/17290046.7/0_b345d_45ff52e8_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734301/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734301/
hey,looks loke real plane and atmosphere

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4130/17290046.7/0_b3458_813adc0a_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734296/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734296/

also there's an awful Spit warn-off texture in stock -
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5644/17290046.7/0_b3449_f5665afe_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734281/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734281/

what is wishful

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4138/17290046.7/0_b344a_7c588f20_XL.jpg (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734282/)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/dogsbody/view/734282/
and even the jacket through the cock is not so disgusting

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-05-2013, 11:17
Ironically, 1C pulling the plug on Clod was probably the best thing that could've happened, IMHO. The ever-growing "Clod-Mod" team are actually fixing the FM's which IC was never able to do after six-odd years of development and 18 months after release. The high-altitude bug followed over from the IL2 1946 and, as has already been pointed out, the 1C devs would never have had the budgeted time to solve and troubleshoot it.

As a virtual Spittie pilot, I'm excited about flying one to specification (or as close to spec as possible). I'm excited about engaging likewise-fixed 109's at high altitudes. Flying the A2A Wings of Power 3 Spitfire has been a real revelation. I'm no big fan of FSX-based sims in general, even after spending muchos dollars on the after-market graphical extras. However, when you apply throttle on take off the A2A Spitfire accelerates and is airborne "before you're really ready" ie. you're hurriedly pulling up your undercarriage before exceeding 160 mph IAS while climbing like crazy -- just as many real BoB pilots have described. Currently, the Clod Spits trundle down the airstrip and take most of the airfield to lift off!

The downside is that I'm still going to get shot down, but I won't have any more excuses! :-)

6BL-Bird-Dog
Jan-05-2013, 12:29
Very impressive work guys,thanks for your time & dedication.I can imagine in the future if you resolve the issues & glaring ommisions since the games release, there might be an increasing renewel interest from the flight simm community in Cliffs of Dover.
This engine still has far more future potential than anything I have seen on the market,it is realy a crying shame that the development team did not have the same faith in the community as many of the community had in them. Well done ,S!

Mission_bug
Jan-05-2013, 15:17
Now those seasonal screens are surely a pleasure to behold, outstanding work there guys, congratulations on your hard work.:thumbsup:

All the best, Pete.:)

14./JG5_Droz
Jan-05-2013, 16:32
I love you guys! AWESOME!

Plt Off JRB Meaker
Jan-05-2013, 17:21
Bliss and team,this is great news,thank you so much for your hard work so far on this project to rectify the FM's,this has made my weekend reading this:thumbsup:

A big Salute to all the team:salute:

II./JG1_Baron
Jan-05-2013, 17:52
Very nice! :nw::flying:

JG52_Krupi
Jan-05-2013, 19:23
Hey Krupi what's up buddy nice to see you here..

Hey dude, not a lot at the moment just got back from hols and found this awesome Happy New Year present from ATAG :D , you?

71st_AH_Eagle
Jan-05-2013, 19:56
Wow...

Wasn't expecting it to happen that quickly but I believe that IL-2 Cliffs of Dover will become the next Falcon 4. Both sims were ahead of their time (Falcon 4 was in devolpment before I was even born) but were quickly disregarded from the publishers and were cut off.

If someone has a way to put music into the game, I'd gladly write some. Just give me some reference music ideas and I'll write somethings and possibly add a tuba solo recording (Ride of the Valkryies anyone?) if I can do it but I'll have to get it prepared again and find a decent audio recorder.

Also, if someone teaches me how to make maps for this game with free programs I came up with what we should do as the next front for this game: The Mediterranean Theater. It pretty much has a little of everything including carrier ops in game but first we need to figure out how to do it. As well, can we make 4 more aircraft in CoD flyable? The Beaufighter, Wellington, Defiant, and Do-17?

Now, where are my dynamic campaign notes for CloD? :-)

Ailantd
Jan-05-2013, 20:48
My question to the people involved in the modding right now is this:

Do you think new fullly functional airplanes with fullly functional cockpits could be introduced in the sim anytime from now, or is it too soon to tell anything about this?
I would consider joining the modding work ( as talented modeler that could make planes and cokpits to the COD standar quality ) IF this point is clear and positive, and the work started here is taken extremely serius.

The same question about maps and other objects.

Thanks

ATAG_Bliss
Jan-05-2013, 21:42
Yes to everything and we are very serious.

Expect a PM.

SlipBall
Jan-06-2013, 02:59
After 3 attempts at this site, I finally found the kitchen...great work guys!!

III/JG53_Don
Jan-06-2013, 06:00
Wow this sounds excellent. Thx for your hard work and dedication!

Just one question: to what degree is it possible to change things in the code? I thought most parts (or at least the basic parts) of CLoD are hardcoded and cant be changed. And now I see a 109 flying in 9.000m :D

Is it possible for you to add a tree collision for example? What is possible with the limited access to the engine and what not?
Anyway your work is much appreciated and like some already stated: 2013 now shines a lot brighter for the sim genre! :thumbsup:

vranac
Jan-06-2013, 06:27
Great stuff :thumbsup:

Thank you very much for your work :nw:

Salmo
Jan-06-2013, 06:44
... <snip> I thought most parts (or at least the basic parts) of CLoD are hardcoded and cant be changed. And now I see a 109 flying in 9.000m <snip> ...

You thought wrong. There are many bug-fixes & improvements coming. :-)

EAF51_Walty
Jan-06-2013, 08:01
These are really great news starting new 2013!
Many thanks to all programmers that do efforts to further develop the most promising WWII simulator.
Waiting for news!

skouras
Jan-06-2013, 09:12
Hey dude, not a lot at the moment just got back from hols and found this awesome Happy New Year present from ATAG :D , you?

waiting to see what these guys is capable of:stunned:

Malc29
Jan-06-2013, 11:07
This is fantastic news and I'm sure something everyone was hoping would happen.

I was just wondering, as the changes will effectively be unoffical mods, how Steam will view it? In the past using modded versions of games has resulted in getting people banned from Steam if they used them online.

As the original developers have officially stated they won't provide further support or development for the game does this remove any risk of such action by Steam, have you already approached them or will it no longer be necessary to play the game via Steam?

I don't want to put a damper on things but it would be a great shame for you to spent the hours you obviously are fixing the game only for Steam to throw cold water on it.

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-06-2013, 11:55
Hi Malc,

Welcome to the forum! :D

I'm not on the mod team, but I can assure you that your concerns were addressed from the onset by the team. I'll leave it to the boffins to better explain this at some point, but other non-Steam measures are being applied to ensure the integrity of the modifications.

In the meantime, I look forward to each little peek that the team provides us as they progress along without fear of that bucket of cold water lurking over the doorway! :thumbsup:

Snapper

thee_oddball
Jan-06-2013, 12:58
I trust in the efforts born of passion over those of profit, congrats to you brave few you happy few who have chosen to wade into the franken code that is CLoD :) . I don't know how i can help but I am willing :) let me know what you need :)

HolyGrail
Jan-06-2013, 13:37
Gotta love squashing bugs ! :D

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac90/HolyGrail_photos/d062.gif

Stirwenn
Jan-06-2013, 13:53
Nice news ! looking forward to fly all the planes at real alt, speed.. etc !

Malc29
Jan-06-2013, 14:49
Hi Malc,

Welcome to the forum! :D

I'm not on the mod team, but I can assure you that your concerns were addressed from the onset by the team. I'll leave it to the boffins to better explain this at some point, but other non-Steam measures are being applied to ensure the integrity of the modifications.

In the meantime, I look forward to each little peek that the team provides us as they progress along without fear of that bucket of cold water lurking over the doorway! :thumbsup:

Snapper

Thank you for the welcome Snapper. This was the response I was hoping for. I too eagerly await the updates!

Malc

ATAG_Bliss
Jan-06-2013, 15:00
This is fantastic news and I'm sure something everyone was hoping would happen.

I was just wondering, as the changes will effectively be unoffical mods, how Steam will view it? In the past using modded versions of games has resulted in getting people banned from Steam if they used them online.

As the original developers have officially stated they won't provide further support or development for the game does this remove any risk of such action by Steam, have you already approached them or will it no longer be necessary to play the game via Steam?

I don't want to put a damper on things but it would be a great shame for you to spent the hours you obviously are fixing the game only for Steam to throw cold water on it.

I think there's a few common misconceptions about steam out there, which is entirely understandable.

Steam, in itself, is nothing more than a digital platform where you can buy titles/games digitally/online. Steam also authenticates/makes sure that you have paid for the game you have in your steam library. Once you have been authenticated your game key is stuck with your steam ID. That's why you could never resell a Steam bought game. Steam also keeps your games up to date, depending on both your steam settings and what the developers have released to the steam platform to do so. The VAC (valve anti-cheat) is a client that checks your game against the official version you are running in the online world only.

But the real kicker is VAC is not only a server side setting - meaning any online server from IL2COD to Counter Strike can choose to turn it on or off. A simple peak into the popular FPS CSS, and you'll notice you can search for "VAC enabled server". Many CSS servers running fantasy maps / or mods not yet approved run online without the protection of VAC.

To give you an idea, for those of us that installed beta patches for IL2COD, those were not official patches. Only once received by steam without automatic updating, did they become official. Think of our patch in the same sense you installed a beta patch from Luthier. There's nothing to worry about.

Tigertooo
Jan-06-2013, 15:12
As a friend of Malc ( we fly in the same Tangmere Wing) i am also very pleased "something" is happening at last.To all possible MOD chaps: take all the time you need, don't rush, take your time. What you chaps are trying to do , or doing as such, is highly appreciated by me to start with, whatever the results may be. Thanks in advance

il_corleone
Jan-06-2013, 15:24
Thanks for the info Bliss, this will calm much people out there.

Plt Off JRB Meaker
Jan-07-2013, 04:31
Wow...

Wasn't expecting it to happen that quickly but I believe that IL-2 Cliffs of Dover will become the next Falcon 4. Both sims were ahead of their time (Falcon 4 was in devolpment before I was even born) but were quickly disregarded from the publishers and were cut off.

If someone has a way to put music into the game, I'd gladly write some. Just give me some reference music ideas and I'll write somethings and possibly add a tuba solo recording (Ride of the Valkryies anyone?) if I can do it but I'll have to get it prepared again and find a decent audio recorder.

Also, if someone teaches me how to make maps for this game with free programs I came up with what we should do as the next front for this game: The Mediterranean Theater. It pretty much has a little of everything including carrier ops in game but first we need to figure out how to do it. As well, can we make 4 more aircraft in CoD flyable? The Beaufighter, Wellington, Defiant, and Do-17?

Now, where are my dynamic campaign notes for CloD? :-)


To have the other non-flyable aircraft made flyable with super hi res cockpits would be a dream come true,I agree,and the thought of a flyable Wellington bomber in the future would really light my candle!.........bring it on guys.
However I can't even think to imagine the hours of work this would take,I heard somewhere the standard COD cockpit takes something like in the excess of six months to complete:ind:

palker
Jan-07-2013, 06:29
Truly great news guys. Thanks for your effort and best off luck in bug squashing. I wish I spent some time behind computer learning some useful skills instead of playing games and browsing forums so I could lend hand to you.
Anyway I do not know if any of you are familiar with Fallout 2 restoration project or The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod for KOTOR 2, but those are also a community projects where dedicated and skilled people like you took amazing games that were released too early and had a lot of unfinished content in them plus lots of bugs and managed to fix most of them. They finished those games instead of original developers who could not do it because of time/money restrictions. It took some time as the latest FO2 RP was released in 2010 while the original game goes back to 1998 while KOTOR 2 was released in 2005 and the mod is still in development.
Since the world did not end in December I hope that this project will turn into something as awesome as the 2 aforementioned mods. I was really disappointed by the fact that the next game in the IL-2 series will not be on this engine as you can just see how much work went to it and how complex and detailed the simulation is.

Malc29
Jan-07-2013, 08:08
I think there's a few common misconceptions about steam out there, which is entirely understandable.

Steam, in itself, is nothing more than a digital platform where you can buy titles/games digitally/online. Steam also authenticates/makes sure that you have paid for the game you have in your steam library. Once you have been authenticated your game key is stuck with your steam ID. That's why you could never resell a Steam bought game. Steam also keeps your games up to date, depending on both your steam settings and what the developers have released to the steam platform to do so. The VAC (valve anti-cheat) is a client that checks your game against the official version you are running in the online world only.

But the real kicker is VAC is not only a server side setting - meaning any online server from IL2COD to Counter Strike can choose to turn it on or off. A simple peak into the popular FPS CSS, and you'll notice you can search for "VAC enabled server". Many CSS servers running fantasy maps / or mods not yet approved run online without the protection of VAC.

To give you an idea, for those of us that installed beta patches for IL2COD, those were not official patches. Only once received by steam without automatic updating, did they become official. Think of our patch in the same sense you installed a beta patch from Luthier. There's nothing to worry about.

Thank you Bliss for your comprehensive response. This is great news and I'm sure will come as great reassurance to anyone with similar concerns. I assume you meant to type VAC IS only a server side setting as that would fit the the following statements? My very best wishes and thanks to you and the development team for picking up the batton.

sfuchs
Jan-07-2013, 08:31
Fantastic news! I thought Cliffs of Dover would remain as it is and so accepted all the little bugs as given things. Great to hear that things are going to change somewhere in the future.

Many thanks to all the people that put their time and efforts to make the simulation better and finally develop it to the simulation it should have been for a while now ... and beyond ...

Mastiff
Jan-07-2013, 09:50
By the way, for those wondering....

1353

I wish I could model that for ya or finish it! that would be a nice addition.

Blitzen
Jan-07-2013, 11:16
Swell- I really want to see progress in this thread!:thumbsup:

thee_oddball
Jan-07-2013, 18:28
By the way, for those wondering....

1353
and I thought I was good with an Etch-A-Sketch :D looks good , how many hours?

buster_dee
Jan-08-2013, 23:46
I don't want to sidetrack this great effort, so don't think there are any thoughts lurking behind my question. Are playable ground objects off the table? I know they cause concern for pilots not wanting "seats" taken up by brats ramming parked a/c with a pink ambulance. I ask because I had started an airflied bus years ago (Dodge VK-62B I think). Modeling "support" ground objects has always interested me. I'm not trained but, apparently, I don't know how to quit either.

III./ZG76_Keller
Jan-08-2013, 23:58
Has anyone stumbled across the "gunner bug" in the bombers?

skouras
Jan-09-2013, 09:48
I don't want to sidetrack this great effort, so don't think there are any thoughts lurking behind my question. Are playable ground objects off the table? I know they cause concern for pilots not wanting "seats" taken up by brats ramming parked a/c with a pink ambulance. I ask because I had started an airflied bus years ago (Dodge VK-62B I think). Modeling "support" ground objects has always interested me. I'm not trained but, apparently, I don't know how to quit either.

that would be great
what a nice feature espesially in multiplayer..
the developers have it almost done as many other features
to pity that they closed the project..

BH_woodstock
Jan-09-2013, 11:11
THANK YOU ATAG!!
I am so happy you guys have picked up the ball on this.As some of you know i was a bit harsh on the devs at 1C forums due to their lack of dedication and a few other things.if u remember they even stated in a thread that they wont even play the game.(some hated it)I even said they should fly with us on a server for direct feedback and stuff.
In one post i said that "they" NEEDED to ask the community for help and i was sure there were some very smart people that were willing to pitch in and help because of their dedication.If "they" had done that Dover would be king of the skies for many years to come but they would not or could not for what ever reason.I begged them to release content for the community to work on but....
I am sure glad you guys are here doing what you do best and i salute you guys for your hard work.

Do us all a favor and show those clowns what CloD could have been if they didnt bail on it.Make 1C and 777 bow down before you and realize that this community is far better than they thought.
~S~ to ATAG!!!

III./ZG76_Saipan
Jan-09-2013, 12:30
Has anyone stumbled across the "gunner bug" in the bombers?

does Tommy suffer from this also or just the poor soul in the 110?

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-09-2013, 12:34
Thanks for the kind words, Woodstock! :thumbsup:

Basically we're seeking to make Clod the best Battle of Britain experience possible by bringing the software as close to its potential as we can. (I use the term "we" loosely, I am not on the mod team).

We wish the future BoS sim well and hope it succeeds beyond expectations. Their win is a win for the whole flight sim community, especially if it attracts players over from the huge console game market.

Like yourself, I am so excited about the developments with Cliffs of Dover now. Over the past year and a half I admit to being puzzled by decisions made by the 1C dev team and the lack of straightforward communication to the Clod community. I was likewise frustrated and angered by the direction(s) that Clod development seemed to be taking -- to put it mildly. That being said, I understand that there were all kinds of things going on behind the scenes at higher levels which were not exactly helpful in perfecting Clod at the time. That's all water under the bridge now and I only wish the best for the departed 1C dev team and that, as individuals, they find careers that best match their interests.

The future of Cliffs of Dover looks very bright! :)

JG52_Krupi
Jan-09-2013, 13:09
Hmmm, once you guys have shown that you can put a model in the game I will be very tempted to make a Fw-190 I brought a full set of blueprints to make my cockpit so might as well make the whole thing :thumbsup:

:salute:

III./ZG76_Keller
Jan-09-2013, 13:24
does Tommy suffer from this also or just the poor soul in the 110?

I believe that it happens to the blennie gunners as well.

II/JG53_TarJak
Jan-09-2013, 15:25
Has anyone stumbled across the "gunner bug" in the bombers?

If you mean the fact they wont fire until attackers are within 100m or so this can be fixed by changing the convergence to more than 600m. If you mean the bug where if you switch to the gunners seat then back to pilot that he wont fire at all then this is a big that needs fixing.

III./ZG76_Keller
Jan-09-2013, 16:34
If you mean the fact they wont fire until attackers are within 100m or so this can be fixed by changing the convergence to more than 600m.

Interesting, I did not know that.


If you mean the bug where if you switch to the gunners seat then back to pilot that he wont fire at all then this is a big that needs fixing.

In two seat planes this can be resolved by hitting Alt+F2 when you're actually in the gunner's seat. In multi crew planes you can relinquish control to the AI by jumping into the bombadier's spot then back into the pilot's seat. The game will allow you to hold two positions in a plane so as long as one of them is not a gunner the AI will take over again.


I'm talking about the bug where if you're in a gunner position with an enemy on your tail the gun will only fire 2 shots for every 3-4 trigger pulls, reloading is also very slow or it won't reload at all.

=AN=Apache
Jan-09-2013, 17:02
Thank you So much ...
If they need someone to help in textures (Photoshop) can count on me, I am not an expert but I am very interested in helping ...

Thank you again

= AN = Apache

II/JG53_TarJak
Jan-09-2013, 17:35
I'm talking about the bug where if you're in a gunner position with an enemy on your tail the gun will only fire 2 shots for every 3-4 trigger pulls, reloading is also very slow or it won't reload at all.Thanks I didn't know about the Alt-F2 I'll try that and see what happens.
Being a gunner sucks in this game that's true and AFAIK this is a bug.

MajorBorris
Jan-09-2013, 21:31
Thanks Colander:thumbsup:

vranac
Jan-10-2013, 05:53
Interesting, I did not know that.



In two seat planes this can be resolved by hitting Alt+F2 when you're actually in the gunner's seat. In multi crew planes you can relinquish control to the AI by jumping into the bombadier's spot then back into the pilot's seat. The game will allow you to hold two positions in a plane so as long as one of them is not a gunner the AI will take over again.


I'm talking about the bug where if you're in a gunner position with an enemy on your tail the gun will only fire 2 shots for every 3-4 trigger pulls, reloading is also very slow or it won't reload at all.

I think I saw explanation from naryv that assigning shooting button on the keyboard helps.Little inconvenient but it seems that reload is on the same left click.

1lokos
Jan-11-2013, 19:08
I believe that it happens to the blennie gunners as well.
In the Blenheim the gunner MG work well, you can fire continuous, no "freeze", and can move the sight while shooting (first change RMB functions in Controls to eliminate conflict with gunner fire button). Only the reload times last a bit, but I think like as intend to mimic RL.
So apart the IA dont retake controll of gunner in some circunstances, I think that Blenheim gunner are OK.

If I understand correct above tips the sequence for leave gunner station is:
Go to bombardier pos, then for pilot, avoid jump from gunner to pilot, correct?

Gunners is worst in Bf-110 and Ju-88 (think that He-111 are like Blenheim), where you need press fire button "99 times", the MG "freeze"... etc.
Need test this convergence tip. ;)

Sokol1

nacy
Jan-11-2013, 21:06
View Mirror walking 0,39mn 3,16mn.Video (1C) 10/11/2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z469HXN0hlQ

Mod-ATAG yes view mirror?

MadTommy
Jan-12-2013, 06:34
Just wanted to pop in a say a big thank you for the work being put into the game.

I've not played in quite some time.. but it's the work being done here that will make that temporary rather than permanent.

Thank you.

ATAG_Colander
Jan-12-2013, 09:46
I just wanted to pup in here and give a short progress update...

The team has been working hard (as much as real life time permits). We are preparing our first internal test version.
This test version will be tested among the mod group and depending on the findings, could be a step forward towards an initial release candidate.

In other words, we are progressing but no, it will not be in "two weeks for sure" :)

il_corleone
Jan-12-2013, 14:47
I just wanted to pup in here and give a short progress update...

The team has been working hard (as much as real life time permits). We are preparing our first internal test version.
This test version will be tested among the mod group and depending on the findings, could be a step forward towards an initial release candidate.

In other words, we are progressing but no, it will not be in "two weeks for sure" :)

Good luck whit that to the MOD Team, Best of luck, for sure those guys know how to do the things good so i hope you will not encounter much errors, Salute!:thumbsup:

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-12-2013, 15:35
Good luck whit that to the MOD Team, Best of luck, for sure those guys know how to do the things good so i hope you will not encounter much errors, Salute!:thumbsup:


+1

Meusli
Jan-12-2013, 16:06
I just wanted to pup in here and give a short progress update...

The team has been working hard (as much as real life time permits). We are preparing our first internal test version.
This test version will be tested among the mod group and depending on the findings, could be a step forward towards an initial release candidate.

In other words, we are progressing but no, it will not be in "two weeks for sure" :)

So two weeks and a day, cool. :)

Gorgon14
Jan-12-2013, 17:20
:-) THanks!

HurricaneHarvest
Jan-13-2013, 05:48
Thanks all invloved .. hope you can fix the AI .. tired of seeing AI planes continually barrel-roll into the terrain ..

HH.

[URU]Aker
Jan-13-2013, 09:46
I just want to say Thanks to everyone involved:

T H A N K S !!!!!
G R A C I A S !!!!

Super6.1
Jan-13-2013, 10:50
Thanks very for relive the Clod!!!!

Continu0
Jan-14-2013, 16:28
Guess this belongs here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jRAizzRj4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jRAizzRj4

Blitzen
Jan-14-2013, 16:36
:-)
Guess this belongs here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jRAizzRj4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jRAizzRj4

Continu0
Jan-14-2013, 16:48
A short question:

This Video states that the modding shown in the Video is intended for offline-playing (see end of the video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyP2M9YzggA

Will the work that is beeing collectet under ATAG&#180;s roof also be available for online-play? Meaning that we will be able to fly with new flight-models on an ATAG - Server?

Thanks for answering!

HolyGrail
Jan-14-2013, 16:54
Yes , you will get it all , it was meant for both on-line and off-line , I just used off-line term because I am more
off-liner than on-liner but we're all in this together ! :thumbsup:
All work by talented modders is on-line & off-line :)

Continu0
Jan-14-2013, 18:05
Yes , you will get it all , it was meant for both on-line and off-line , I just used off-line term because I am more
off-liner than on-liner but we're all in this together ! :thumbsup:
All work by talented modders is on-line & off-line :)

Yay, good news! Thank you very much, and congratulations: Doing work like this is quite an achievement!

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-14-2013, 18:26
This is good stuff. Thanks for the peek! :thumbsup:

Jaws
Jan-14-2013, 19:43
Great job gents.:thumbsup: There's so much in this game it's just not acceptable to let 1C throw it into the trash bin, in order to secure sales for their eastern front ROF. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Jaws_18/mockface.gif

I have a sugestion. When this game was released, there was so much more meat on it's bones than in the latest versions. The lighting was way more advanced and a lot of effects were very well done. Most of those were trashed in a race for increase FPS. I understand their reason, they had to make a game work for as many computers as possible.
I think there's a lot in the older versions of the game that could be brought back. Obviously, it's not high priority and i understand there are not many people working on this and able to do that, but if there are moders that want to work on some effects and maybe lighting engine, to make a the game look better. There's a lot in the early version that maybe could be used again.
For example I loved the lighting engine, beautiful orange sunrise and sunset and morning mist we had in the early version. It made just flying around so enjoyable. :(


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Jaws_18/shot_20110423_014013.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ncCos.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lKkhZ.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Jaws_18/Screenshot237639.jpg
I'm clueless about this things. It may not be possible, may be too much work or the engine may be changed enough those things can't be brought back. I'm sorry for my uninformed ideas.:wf:

Thank you all involved. you keep this game alive and kept it for a long time. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Jaws_18/bow_down_together-966_zps30c9f5d2.gif

il_corleone
Jan-15-2013, 12:31
Like Jaws said, it would be a nice addon if you guys can bring it someday in a graphics patch for candy only, thanks for the work you are doing, outstanding work, salute!:salute:

Geier
Jan-15-2013, 17:27
I have a sugestion. When this game was released, there was so much more meat on it's bones than in the latest versions. The lighting was way more advanced and a lot of effects were very well done. Most of those were trashed in a race for increase FPS. I understand their reason, they had to make a game work for as many computers as possible.
I think there's a lot in the older versions of the game that could be brought back. Obviously, it's not high priority and i understand there are not many people working on this and able to do that, but if there are moders that want to work on some effects and maybe lighting engine, to make a the game look better. There's a lot in the early version that maybe could be used again.
For example I loved the lighting engine, beautiful orange sunrise and sunset and morning mist we had in the early version. It made just flying around so enjoyable. :(


That's what I'm actually about. Hope the guys will do this

Roblex
Jan-16-2013, 02:38
As someone with a graphics card that barely copes (Nvidia GT 430 1Gb) and no money to upgrade, I am a little worried that too much extra eye-candy will put me out of the future game. Hopefully it will all be removeable via the settings.

Koala63
Jan-16-2013, 02:47
Best of British chaps. First time ever I've been motivated enough by anything to acutally cough up and donate. Sorry environment. Sorry third world. Sorry Sea Shepherd. ATAG just won my $.

Mysticpuma
Jan-16-2013, 05:00
As someone with a graphics card that barely copes (Nvidia GT 430 1Gb) and no money to upgrade, I am a little worried that too much extra eye-candy will put me out of the future game. Hopefully it will all be removeable via the settings.

Hi Roblex.
The work being done on tbe graphics isn't really just about 'candy' as such.

The problem seems to be that behind the 'candy wrapper' are lots of effects that are not visible, useful or in-fact required.

It's like having an amazing beautiful candy wrapper and then once you remove it, there is a big, boring chewy toffee that slows your enjoyment to a halt!

What we are hoping to do is keep the beautiful candy wrapper that you can see and put inside it a small, manageable and less chewy toffee that can be dealt with quickly but have all the flavour of your favourite toffee :)

Okay, enough of the candy analogy!

Basically work will continue to keep and enhance the beauty/candy, while at the same time increasing fps!

Currently there is truly a huge amount of work going on, including internal testing of fm/dm, graphics and much more.

The one thing I will add is that everyone working in the modding forums does actually wantCloD to be the product it promised to be.

Currently that is what we all hope for as work continues ;)

Keep the faith, cheers, MP

ATAG_Septic
Jan-16-2013, 05:55
Hi Roblex.
The work being done on tbe graphics isn't really just about 'candy' as such.

The problem seems to be that behind the 'candy wrapper' are lots of effects that are not visible, useful or in-fact required.

It's like having an amazing beautiful candy wrapper and then once you remove it, there is a big, boring chewy toffee that slows your enjoyment to a halt!

What we are hoping to do is keep the beautiful candy wrapper that you can see and put inside it a small, manageable and less chewy toffee that can be dealt with quickly but have all the flavour of your favourite toffee :)

Okay, enough of the candy analogy!

Basically work will continue to keep and enhance the beauty/candy, while at the same time increasing fps!

Currently there is truly a huge amount of work going on, including internal testing of fm/dm, graphics and much more.

The one thing I will add is that everyone working in the modding forums does actually wantCloD to be the product it promised to be.

Currently that is what we all hope for as work continues ;)

Keep the faith, cheers, MP

Thanks MP, you provide a smile with which to start the day! :)

Septic.

Skoshi_Tiger
Jan-16-2013, 06:59
Just like to add my thanks to the guys involved in this endeavor. Your efforts and devotion to the task of keeping this Cliffs up and running are an inspiration to us all.

Cheers and thanks again!

ATAG_Naz
Jan-16-2013, 07:08
I like Toffee:)

il_corleone
Jan-16-2013, 09:04
Only by seeing the work that achieved these guys whit the ATAG server, scripts etc, and the passion of the people that is working on it, after all, all of these guys are truly sim gamers, so they know the faults and the Brights of the game to work on them, i have faith, just a question, is the stop of developement of Clod the best thing that happened on sim games till the free server of Warbirds? i think this is only the beginning,and you guys are going to deliver good moments for all the guys who play this game, and call new ones,do you know what i think? You have the Spirit of Oleg Maddox and Ilya Shevchenko on you, as i said before, its like the beggining of orignal Il2. Thanks for your work and passion, i hope Oleg and Ilya see this too, they never worked for money, after all if they wanted money they would had brought a fps.they should be very proud of you. the real spirit of work to do the best you can.Thanks

KDN
Jan-16-2013, 09:37
>------0-------<
Thank you!!

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-16-2013, 09:39
I like Toffee:)

nom nom nom

il_corleone
Jan-16-2013, 16:28
I like Toffee:)

And do you like Smoked Toffees too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-0jRAizzRj4

i still have faith in humanity! it reminds me of Crysis 2 smoke effect and whit aument of FPS , my god guys, OMG, Love you all!

Oersted
Jan-16-2013, 17:31
Here's a few very much "work in progress" screenies that should wet the appetite.

1349135013511352

Hey Bliss, fantastic news and great that you work to improve this sim!

Regarding the alpha winter screenies:
1) They are great!
2) One might consider to "dirty" them a bit. This kind of uniform Siberian snow cover would be very unusual for the Channel area. I think a more scruffy-looking grey muddy with dirty snow patches style would be more realistic. Of course the best would be to have BOTH versions of a winter snowscape, to reflect different months of the year!

Thanks for all the work of the modders. If I can in any way help i'd be delighted to. Some quick and dirty movie making perhaps? :-) I have around 1100 subscribers in my youtube channel and 600,000 total visitors, so any movie would get a good viewing...

ATAG_Slipstream
Jan-17-2013, 03:09
Hey Bliss, fantastic news and great that you work to improve this sim!

Regarding the alpha winter screenies:
1) They are great!
2) One might consider to "dirty" them a bit. This kind of uniform Siberian snow cover would be very unusual for the Channel area. I think a more scruffy-looking grey muddy with dirty snow patches style would be more realistic. Of course the best would be to have BOTH versions of a winter snowscape, to reflect different months of the year!


The grey "slushy" snow is usually only where people/vehicles are present, highways, cities etc. The countryside is left untouched and pure white until it melts, then its still patches of white.

This is a snap from a jet http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompeyshoes/3339004907/

I think the texture artist is spot on.

Mastiff
Jan-17-2013, 06:17
The grey "slushy" snow is usually only where people/vehicles are present, highways, cities etc. The countryside is left untouched and pure white until it melts, then its still patches of white.

This is a snap from a jet http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompeyshoes/3339004907/

I think the texture artist is spot on.

wholly crap is that real? that looks exactly like that in Rise Of Flight!

Mastiff
Jan-17-2013, 07:05
has anyone figured out how to make the trees non-fly through?

ATAG_Slipstream
Jan-17-2013, 08:13
wholly crap is that real? that looks exactly like that in Rise Of Flight!

lol yes that's the UK under snow, from the air.

ChiefRedCloud
Jan-17-2013, 13:11
has anyone figured out how to make the trees non-fly through?

I'm only guessing here but what ever is assigned to draw the trees need to also be assigned a collision factor. And as I'm only guessing, I would also guess that is is far from that simple to actualy do something about it. Unless someone has delt with trees and collision factors before, it might take some reverse engineering with a good example to do this.

Continu0
Jan-17-2013, 13:32
They had a Tree-Collision Modell at 1C, but it just killed the fps... So I don&#180;t think we will get that in the near future...

ATAG_Colander
Jan-17-2013, 13:43
Here's the problem the devs had with the trees...
THERE ARE TOO MANY DAMN TREES :)

If you start calculating collisions for every tree in the map, you will need to dedicate 1 CPU just for this.

Now, add to this the fact that some players fly with trees disabled. How do you handle collisions with something they don't see?

There are possible solutions to this and I'm sure the devs knew about them, however, it wasn't their top priority on the list of things to fix for Clod. Sadly, we can only guess if is something that was taken care of on the sequel.

In any case, air combat should be in the air and not under the trees ;)

ATAG_Colander.

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-17-2013, 14:13
Hmmm, perhaps in the main airfields' (both sides') immediate vicinity we could place small cottages or similar small collision objects (that are below treetop level) randomly amongst the trees. :devilish:

:)

ATAG_Septic
Jan-17-2013, 14:22
Hmmm, perhaps in the main airfields' (both sides') immediate vicinity we could place small cottages or similar small collision objects (that are below treetop level) randomly amongst the trees. :devilish:

:)

I've had that very thought too Snapper. Ever since Luthier said it was the sheer number of objects that precluded collisions with trees I've wondered whether there is a simple model, perhaps like the telegraph pole, which could be scattered about forests?

Just one placed at that tree at the end of the runway at Caffiers would add a dimension to the game, I've been through it hundreds of times :)

Septic.

ATAG_Colander
Jan-17-2013, 14:37
I have an idea on how to work around this but it will be further down the line.

Mysticpuma
Jan-17-2013, 15:26
Just give all the trees a - value and put them under the map ;)

add sand

and we can call it, erm....ahhhhhh..... Desert ;)

buster_dee
Jan-17-2013, 19:20
Well, if a simple triangle can be a collision "model," placed horizontally at the object's top (or half height), and if we can live with the crudeness of the collision, maybe the drain on resources can be decreased enough.

thee_oddball
Jan-17-2013, 20:17
For the Collision problems, you need to apply collision to the trees in speed tree, to do that while in speed tree, just click on tools and select the generate collision, then just play with the settings.

is there no way for us to turn collisions on in speedtree's?

Logan
Jan-17-2013, 20:29
Hey, just a thought..I know ya'll are busy fixing CLOD but any chance of maybe adding in the Africa mod in as well? Or would that be on down the road?
A lot of us would like that too :salute:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tugifv2YIw8

Borsch
Jan-18-2013, 11:14
Hey, just a thought..I know ya'll are busy fixing CLOD but any chance of maybe adding in the Africa mod in as well? Or would that be on down the road?
A lot of us would like that too :salute:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tugifv2YIw8

That was not Afrika, it was only a retextured current Clod map.

Oersted
Jan-18-2013, 15:21
Well, if a simple triangle can be a collision "model," placed horizontally at the object's top (or half height), and if we can live with the crudeness of the collision, maybe the drain on resources can be decreased enough.

Or rather, for the big forests, just have one big collision box the size of the forest. Shouldn't be too hard on the computer, as it would basically just be the landscape collision box raised five meters. Similarly a "collision line" for rows of trees...

ChiefRedCloud
Jan-18-2013, 21:05
They had a Tree-Collision Modell at 1C, but it just killed the fps... So I don&#180;t think we will get that in the near future...

Sort of makes you wonder how they have ALL those trees in RoF with collision factors. Although it does get a little creepy watching the trees turn to evidently follow you. How about this to compicate things. Collition factores only previlent when a vehicle is in close proximity. Then you can have ten thousand trees with no collision and only half a dozen when nessiccary?

ATAG_Ribbs
Jan-18-2013, 22:42
That's a good idea Chief! maybe the collision model in the small LOD bubble of the player.
.

Mastiff
Jan-18-2013, 23:13
in our current official version I have noticed the LOD textures of aircraft disappear or Klingon cloaking device enabled from 1.10 km out to 3.0 km

352ndRJ
Jan-22-2013, 17:01
Thank you, I was hoping that the sim community would take the lead on this. So much potential to let it fail, and did I say Thank you.....

RJ

ATAG_Ribbs
Jan-23-2013, 15:41
What about just the trunk of the tree have collision modeled... basically just a pole. Not the whole tree..

Btw good to see you in here Rj.. was gonna post a link to this in our forums also..S!

LG1.Farber
Jan-23-2013, 17:47
Sorry to say it, the Autumn map is not too bad, but the winter map is mainly white with no extra depth like snow. Actually allot of colour still remains. Only colour from vertical objects like tree trunks would be visable, or fences or walls.

Anyway, we only have less than a week of snow of England per year, in the South, even less! You would get 10 times more mileage from patches of frost in fields.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/890269/thumbs/r-SNOW-large570.jpg?4

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50263000/jpg/_50263718_jex_887877_de27-1.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21122026

kopperdrake
Jan-24-2013, 07:14
I'm all for the crude collision for trees. There must be point data of sorts for the placement of the tree models - whether hard-coded or generated on-the-fly by some type of weight-map-ish set up. Rather than trying to make the tree model itself a collision object, a simple radius of effect around the existing point data could suffice. If this radius of effect were raised from the ground to sit within the foliage, then this would prevent taxiing aircraft on the ground colliding with it, but anyone flying in the trees would hit it.

Sure it wouldn't be amazingly accurate so some clipping of tree edges would be survivable, but it would prevent the tactics we see of flying through trees. I'm no programmer, and I have no idea how easy (or, more likely, difficult) it is to get into the engine at that level, but that's how I would look to solve the collision issue. Even better would be a 2-point chain, one at the base of the tree (using the suspected existing point data), the other in the centre of the foliage, offset vertically. This chain would suffice for trunk collision, and the foliage collision would be generated around the highest point in the method mentioned above.

I'm probably talking crap, but that's how I see it in my head.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-24-2013, 08:57
in our current official version I have noticed the LOD textures of aircraft disappear or Klingon cloaking device enabled from 1.10 km out to 3.0 km

The textures do not disappear. What happens is that the dot, which is dark (and contrasts well with the sky/sea, and fairly well against the long-range ground textures), renders down to the aircraft textures, which do not contrast as much with the sky/sea (in the case of the 109s) or the ground (in the case of the RAF aircraft) so, for a moment, until the textures get large enough, your eyes are unable to make them out. This effect /illusion is exacerbated by certain angles to the aircraft being rendered.

This is resolved (for the most part) by increasing the visual contrast, be it with a processing effect (sweet fx, or injectFX) or by adjusting your monitor.

Continu0
Jan-24-2013, 09:13
The textures do not disappear. What happens is that the dot, which is dark (and contrasts well with the sky/sea, and fairly well against the long-range ground textures), renders down to the aircraft textures, which do not contrast as much with the sky/sea (in the case of the 109s) or the ground (in the case of the RAF aircraft) so, for a moment, until the textures get large enough, your eyes are unable to make them out. This effect /illusion is exacerbated by certain angles to the aircraft being rendered.

This is resolved (for the most part) by increasing the visual contrast, be it with a processing effect (sweet fx, or injectFX) or by adjusting your monitor.

I fear I have to differ about that. The missing contrast-Issue is true, but in addition to that, I have the problem that Aircraft disappear at a middle distance where they should definitly be visible.

I sometimes see Spitfires disappear when they are in a 90-degree-turn (against the blue sky), which means I see the aircraft from the top (which is the perspective where the silouette against the sky has the biggest surface and should have the greatest visibility(remember, spit`s are green/brown). As I get closer to the aircraft, it suddenly pops up again...

So this is certainly a bug, which (in my case) seems to appear only under certain circumstances.
Maybe i can record this and show it here...

ATAG_Colander
Jan-24-2013, 11:05
All,

Just want to point out something that might not be so obvious...

Please do not expect every single thing to be fixed on the first release of the Mod. There are a LOT of things in the TO DO list, with different degrees of complexity and time requirements.

Every one in Team Fusion is also a player, we all know of all the issues the game currently has but we also know that not all of them will be an easy fix or even doable in some cases.

Thanks,
ATAG_Colander.

ATAG_Ribbs
Jan-24-2013, 11:18
Thanks Colander for keeping us in check...:salute:

I think we all realize... and expect that not everything will be fixed in the first patch...we are just trying to work on ideas to maybe help out the team. I know that we are eagerly awaiting to see what the team has in store for us. Its a marathon not

a sprint that's for sure. S! to the team for all their efforts to make this game even better.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-24-2013, 11:19
Maybe i can record this and show it here...
I can only advise that you try and get an obvious video of this.

All of the guys I fly with who have previously reported this very issue (including me) have been able to solve it.

LG1.Farber
Jan-24-2013, 11:56
All,

Just want to point out something that might not be so obvious...

Please do not expect every single thing to be fixed on the first release of the Mod. There are a LOT of things in the TO DO list, with different degrees of complexity and time requirements.

Every one in Team Fusion is also a player, we all know of all the issues the game currently has but we also know that not all of them will be an easy fix or even doable in some cases.

Thanks,
ATAG_Colander.

Clearly the easiest and most deserving will be in the first iteration as the Team priortises things, I dont think anyone is expecting a wonder mod straight off the bat. Who is in the team anyway?

Borsch
Jan-24-2013, 12:02
I think that disappearing LODs have something to do with AA (planes wings shimmer and flicker on-off at a distance for example), but there is deper problme as well that goes all the way back to Il2:1946 where LODs were also known for disappearance acts...

Continu0
Jan-24-2013, 13:05
All,

Just want to point out something that might not be so obvious...

Please do not expect every single thing to be fixed on the first release of the Mod. There are a LOT of things in the TO DO list, with different degrees of complexity and time requirements.

Every one in Team Fusion is also a player, we all know of all the issues the game currently has but we also know that not all of them will be an easy fix or even doable in some cases.

Thanks,
ATAG_Colander.

I have great hopes but try to keep expectations low...
Everyone should understand that we only can win: Official support is over, we can&#180;t "await" something. Nothing is garanted, but we can hope...

Geier
Jan-24-2013, 14:49
Don't want to open new thread, but very curious about one thing. We all know that now Spitfire (esp 100 octane - the most effecient in game except 2) did the bad of him online at angels 10 and higher - the water boils too fast and pilot have to push the throttle backwards till 70-50 % to avoid self-damage. The engine works unstable and almost every high altitude flight leads to its failure. Any hope to see improvments in the light of altitude bug fix?

ATAG_Colander
Jan-24-2013, 14:59
Please wait for the mod release.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jan-24-2013, 15:14
Don't want to open new thread, but very curious about one thing. We all know that now Spitfire (esp 100 octane - the most effecient in game except 2) did the bad of him online at angels 10 and higher - the water boils too fast and pilot have to push the throttle backwards till 70-50 % to avoid self-damage. The engine works unstable and almost every high altitude flight leads to its failure. Any hope to see improvments in the light of altitude bug fix?

Salute

We are working on all of the major issues and so far have had very positive results.

However, as Collander says, we have to prioritize and time is a factor.

Perhaps if you looked at the video again, you will have more clues.

In any case, please wait for release and perhaps, updates. :salute:

Logan
Jan-24-2013, 16:55
That was not Afrika, it was only a retextured current Clod map.
Yes, I know. It seems that getting that mapmod and skins is next to impossible. It would be nice to have down the road at some point IMO.

Furious
Jan-24-2013, 17:11
Colander that GIF is horrible, borderline pukesville....:sick:

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-24-2013, 17:17
Colander that GIF is horrible, borderline pukesville....:sick:

Hehehe, I believe that tops out Bliss' and Slipstream's GIF avatar for most annoying. Love it!!!! :thumbsup:

ATAG_Colander
Jan-24-2013, 17:25
Hehehe, I believe that tops out Bliss' and Slipstream's GIF avatar for most annoying. Love it!!!! :thumbsup:

That was the idea. If every one is going to use an annoying avatar, I'll have to follow suit :)


Edit:
And give thanks that this one does not work when scaled. Is not even animated!!!

http://www.theganghut.co.uk/pics/illusion/anomalousmotion.png

ATAG_Slipstream
Jan-24-2013, 18:58
Hehehe, I believe that tops out Bliss' and Slipstream's GIF avatar for most annoying. Love it!!!! :thumbsup:

I think Bliss finds mine very annoying, I'm sure he was hinting at me the other night when suggested another one :D.

But Colander has taken this to a whole new level, that avatar is like watching a horror movie.

ATAG_Bliss
Jan-24-2013, 19:45
I actually thought mine was tasteful. :thumbsup:

ATAG_Slipstream
Jan-24-2013, 19:48
I actually thought mine was tasteful. :thumbsup:

I love your avatar Bliss, its optimistic and positive!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-24-2013, 20:13
I actually thought mine was tasteful. :thumbsup:

It sucks eggs through a vacuum cleaner!!!


Oh wait, that got me in trouble somewhere else in this forum.......

:)

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-24-2013, 20:27
Don't want to open new thread, but very curious about one thing. We all know that now Spitfire (esp 100 octane - the most effecient in game except 2) did the bad of him online at angels 10 and higher - the water boils too fast and pilot have to push the throttle backwards till 70-50 % to avoid self-damage. The engine works unstable and almost every high altitude flight leads to its failure. Any hope to see improvments in the light of altitude bug fix?

Hi Geier,

I agree very much about the current high altitude performance of the Spitfires above 10 angels, especially the Spitfire 1a 100 octane. I fly that model for low altitude missions such as airfield defence -- it is faster and quicker to accelerate than the Spitfire 2a on the deck. However, most of my missions are flown in the Spitfire 2a at altitudes of 20 - 23 angels. It definitely has its problems and lack of performance at these altitudes (especially in the climb getting there). As you expect, we've had to change our engine management and fighting tactics to compensate, but we do usually get our aircraft safely back -- if the Luftwaffe allow us! :D

Please take this as a warm welcome to join us online and on Teamspeak. Any of us will be glad to fly some missions with you and share our techniques back-and-forth over Teamspeak as we fly. At the very worst it'll be fun! Although far from perfect or historic, we'll work with you in extracting the maximum performance out of the Spits as they are now. Hopefully after the Team Fusion Patch #1 we can blow the dust off the 1940 Pilots Notes and fly these crates the way they were meant to be!

Hope to see you online, mate. :thumbsup:

Snapper :salute:

Salmo
Jan-25-2013, 02:06
Don't want to open new thread, but very curious about one thing. We all know that now Spitfire (esp 100 octane - the most effecient in game except 2) did the bad of him online at angels 10 and higher - the water boils too fast and pilot have to push the throttle backwards till 70-50 % to avoid self-damage. The engine works unstable and almost every high altitude flight leads to its failure. Any hope to see improvments in the light of altitude bug fix?

:thumbsup:

NLS61
Jan-25-2013, 02:43
I'm all for the crude collision for trees. There must be point data of sorts for the placement of the tree models - whether hard-coded or generated on-the-fly by some type of weight-map-ish set up. Rather than trying to make the tree model itself a collision object, a simple radius of effect around the existing point data could suffice. If this radius of effect were raised from the ground to sit within the foliage, then this would prevent taxiing aircraft on the ground colliding with it, but anyone flying in the trees would hit it.

Sure it wouldn't be amazingly accurate so some clipping of tree edges would be survivable, but it would prevent the tactics we see of flying through trees. I'm no programmer, and I have no idea how easy (or, more likely, difficult) it is to get into the engine at that level, but that's how I would look to solve the collision issue. Even better would be a 2-point chain, one at the base of the tree (using the suspected existing point data), the other in the centre of the foliage, offset vertically. This chain would suffice for trunk collision, and the foliage collision would be generated around the highest point in the method mentioned above.

I'm probably talking crap, but that's how I see it in my head.

Hi, i'm no gaming programmer or even close to one , but I do script a lot of flash.
There I do, pun intended, "hittest(s)" on collors could one have a hit test on the brown color in the trees? That single color is probably also in houses and any thing else but I think not the sky?
Could be I'm barking out of my @#$% or just stupid. Yust dont know if something like that is posssible.

SlipBall
Jan-25-2013, 04:11
avatars, this place needs a epilepsy filter :grrr:

VonDepner
Jan-25-2013, 19:28
Thanks guys for all the great work you doing. Hopefully we will get the CoD we all expected when we bought it. You guys are legends:)

Toasted_Toad
Jan-25-2013, 20:40
Most impressed guys, having seen how the "impossible" was done in 1946 I think it shows that that the modders can do amazing things when not tied to time and budget deadlines.

Much appreciations for your time and effort as always.

Cheers

T_T

Oersted
Jan-27-2013, 03:34
Sorry to say it, the Autumn map is not too bad, but the winter map is mainly white with no extra depth like snow. Actually allot of colour still remains. Only colour from vertical objects like tree trunks would be visable, or fences or walls.

Anyway, we only have less than a week of snow of England per year, in the South, even less! You would get 10 times more mileage from patches of frost in fields.

Just checked some historical weather data. Lowestoft Meterological Station (on the East coast) Weather data from the winter of 1940-41:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/lowestoftdata.txt

Year-Month-Max.temp-Min.temp-af(?)-Rain(mm.)-Sun(hours)

1940 10 13.9 7.6 0 37.8 ---
1940 11 10.4 4.4 1 136.7 88.1
1940 12 6.6 1.3 4 46.4 ---
1941 1 2.6 -1.3 18 64.4 42.0
1941 2 5.7 0.2 13 50.8 57.2
1941 3 9.1 1.9 2 55.6 ---

So, in the winter 1940-41 there were plus degrees from October to March, with only one month of Minimum temp. dipping below zero (January with -1.3).

Since -1.3 was the minimum temp of that month I don't think there was any snow to speak of in the winter of the Battle of Britain. Since that is the only winter we an hope to have modelled with the current plane set I would say that it would be more historically correct to make a winter map with just dark and grey fields and trees without leaves. But of course a snowy winter map will be beautiful to fly over! - It just won't belong to the historical simulation.

(PS, not conclusive data, if somebody has anything better I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise!)

LizLemon
Jan-27-2013, 04:24
Just checked some historical weather data. Lowestoft Meterological Station (on the East coast) Weather data from the winter of 1940-41:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/lowestoftdata.txt

Year-Month-Max.temp-Min.temp-af(?)-Rain(mm.)-Sun(hours)

1940 10 13.9 7.6 0 37.8 ---
1940 11 10.4 4.4 1 136.7 88.1
1940 12 6.6 1.3 4 46.4 ---
1941 1 2.6 -1.3 18 64.4 42.0
1941 2 5.7 0.2 13 50.8 57.2
1941 3 9.1 1.9 2 55.6 ---

So, in the winter 1940-41 there were plus degrees from October to March, with only one month of Minimum temp. dipping below zero (January with -1.3).

Since -1.3 was the minimum temp of that month I don't think there was any snow to speak of in the winter of the Battle of Britain. Since that is the only winter we an hope to have modelled with the current plane set I would say that it would be more historically correct to make a winter map with just dark and grey fields and trees without leaves. But of course a snowy winter map will be beautiful to fly over! - It just won't belong to the historical simulation.

(PS, not conclusive data, if somebody has anything better I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise!)

If I'm remembering things right then this issue was already brought up in other discussions. And it turns out that the winter of 40/41 was particularly severe and most of south england was covered with snow.

A quick bit of googling shows that 40-42 were bad winters. I can't find any snowfall records though, so if you or someone else can then that'd be great.

Brigstock
Jan-27-2013, 06:31
Even a bad winter in the south only lasts a week to 2 weeks at most. It snows for a few days, settles, everything grinds to a halt, then we sit out the next few days as it thaws out. Like it's been mentioned earlier for the most part of winter in the south frosty fields is order of the day.

bolox
Jan-27-2013, 07:05
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/archive/monthly-weather-report-1940s

Winter 39-40 was very cold with quite deep snow in places.
Also remember Lowestoft is on the coast and is often a little warmer than areas a few miles inland in winter

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-27-2013, 07:33
See the section 1/4 down this page entitled "snow in Great Britain"
http://www.warchangesclimate.com/c/Three_year_winter_package.html

"stormy weather brought massive snow to south-eastern England, including snowdrifts reaching heights of 15 feet and more"

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-27-2013, 07:37
Winter 1940/1941 Central London: http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/St-Pauls-London-wartime.jpg

1601

ATAG_Septic
Jan-27-2013, 07:43
See the section 1/4 down this page entitled "snow in Great Britain"
http://www.warchangesclimate.com/c/Three_year_winter_package.html

"stormy weather brought massive snow to south-eastern England, including snowdrifts reaching heights of 15 feet and more"

I'm not disputing the research in this interesting essay but whilst the weather may be accurate it must be a debatable hypothesis, battle ships causing climate change?

"Over the Atlantic, warm air clashed with cold air, which was actually colder than usually because of the naval warfare in the North and Baltic Seas".

Fascinating.

Septic.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-27-2013, 07:49
I'm not disputing the research in this interesting essay but whilst the weather may be accurate it must be a debatable hypothesis, battle ships causing climate change?
"Over the Atlantic, warm air clashed with cold air, which was actually colder than usually because of the naval warfare in the North and Baltic Seas".
Fascinating.
Septic.

LOL!
I think the grammar in that phrase needs attention. It is clearly nonsense if interpreted that way. I'd love to know what the author means...

LG1.Farber
Jan-27-2013, 09:10
Just checked some historical weather data. Lowestoft Meterological Station (on the East coast) Weather data from the winter of 1940-41:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/lowestoftdata.txt

Year-Month-Max.temp-Min.temp-af(?)-Rain(mm.)-Sun(hours)

1940 10 13.9 7.6 0 37.8 ---
1940 11 10.4 4.4 1 136.7 88.1
1940 12 6.6 1.3 4 46.4 ---
1941 1 2.6 -1.3 18 64.4 42.0
1941 2 5.7 0.2 13 50.8 57.2
1941 3 9.1 1.9 2 55.6 ---

So, in the winter 1940-41 there were plus degrees from October to March, with only one month of Minimum temp. dipping below zero (January with -1.3).

Since -1.3 was the minimum temp of that month I don't think there was any snow to speak of in the winter of the Battle of Britain. Since that is the only winter we an hope to have modelled with the current plane set I would say that it would be more historically correct to make a winter map with just dark and grey fields and trees without leaves. But of course a snowy winter map will be beautiful to fly over! - It just won't belong to the historical simulation.

(PS, not conclusive data, if somebody has anything better I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise!)

Im sure you could actually look up the actually weather for each day if you really wanted too, they have been recording is since 1800's? January is the month to look at for English snow if anyone is going to look. Uncommonly we have just had snow on the ground for a week but no its all gone.

Battle of Britain was over well before it started getting cold.

Certainly some frosty mornings and yes trees without leaves and more browns that greens would be allot better.

I looked up the met archives, they have not been computerised - you can go and look at th books though!



1940-1942 (Winters): SEVERE WINTERS OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR
1. The three winters of the early war years (1939/40 to 1941/42) were notable for some harsh conditions. In the '39/'40 winter, not only was snow a significant problem, but it contained the longest-lasting RAIN-ICE event (27th January to 3rd February, 1940) known for these islands, with severe transport dislocation, and many injuries on the ice in a large area from north Wales across parts of the south-west Midlands to the southwest and central-southern England. During the same period, a great SNOW storm with a VIOLENT GALE affected southeastern England with snow drifts well above 15 ft. January, 1940, with a CET of minus 1.4degc, was the coldest (to that date) of the century, only later beaten by January 1963(q.v). On January 19th 1942, a great SNOWSTORM affected much of Britain with much dislocation of life. February 1942 was notably COLD - one of the 10 coldest Februarys in the CET series. The severity of these winters caused much hardship, particularly as the convoys across the North Atlantic were being severely interrupted by U-Boat attacks. However, its worth noting that the severe weather affected much of the continent of Europe as well!
2. December 1941 and January 1942 saw the harsh Russian winter weather put paid to the German advance on Moscow. From early in December 1941, TEMPERATURES just outside Moscow were down to (minus)45degC or lower, over a full SNOW cover. The main attack on the capital occurred on 22nd December, but by then conditions for troops were extreme, who lacked proper winter clothing & whose tanks, guns etc., had not been 'winterised'. Military historians suggest that the failure of German High Command to press home the attack on Moscow in the late summer of 1941 was the key error, meaning that major offensive operations had to occur in the depths of the Russian winter. By January, 1942, TEMPERATURES as low as (minus)52degC were being recorded. Estimates are that more German soldiers died from bitter cold than from combat action; however, Soviet losses, both military and civilian, were also high. (Ref.14)
1941 (January):
1. Much SNOW just after mid-month: The first major SNOWSTORM of 1941 occurred between 18th & 20th January: In Scotland & northern England, SNOW fell to a depth of 60cm, with 30 cm in parts of the Midlands. On the evening of the 20th, nearly 45cm fell at Birmingham. At Hoylake (Merseyside), SNOWDRIFTS were up to 3m high. In Scotland, the SNOWSTORMS were especially SEVERE, with parts of Sutherland & Caithness isolated by DRIFTS up to 4.5m. 50cm at Balmoral on the 22nd. BLIZZARD north-east England and southeast Scotland - noted at the time as the 'worst since March 1888'. At Consett, Derbyshire, SNOW DEPTHS of up to 4 feet (120 cm) reported.
1941 (February):
1. 18th to 20th February, 1941: BLIZZARD eastern England/southern Scotland with worst hit area between Tees Side and North Yorkshire. Six trains were buried in DRIFTING SNOW north of Newcastle upon Tyne, with over 1000 people on board. At Durham, snow depth 105cm and at Newcastle upon Tyne 70cm. Sunderland and Durham were completely cut off for a while. Considerable telephonic disruption due wet/freezing snow clinging to overhead telephone lines. (NB: First winter of the 'real' war after the phoney winter 1939/40: food shortages acute.)
1941 (Annual):
1. Although not notably DRY nationally, across the south of England, as evidenced by Southampton (Mayflower Park) figures & remarks from elsewhere, it was a year without excessive rainfall. The annual RAINFALL total at Southampton represented roughly 87% of the long-term mean there and further west, at Poole (Dorset), there were four periods of extended DRY weather, the longest being from 10th June to 10th July, when no measurable rain fell.
Source: http://booty.org.uk/booty.weather/climate/1900_1949.htm#1940_1949

I wouldnt get too excited about the height of snow drifts... Just because some snow piled up at the bottom of a vally to 15 foot doesnt mean England is like Norway or Sweeden...

Oersted
Jan-27-2013, 10:19
I'm just glad we have gotten this discussion going. So far, info going both ways...

SlipBall
Jan-28-2013, 10:39
At least snow does not seam to flair tempers like FM did...I still question all that testing that was done being accurate, considering the wind's effect in the sim :D

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-28-2013, 11:01
Question away, Slipball, question away. Meanwhile, the work continues......:)

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-28-2013, 11:31
January 8th, 1941:
Newspaper writer seems to think snow was bad enough to cause lull in bombing by Luftwaffe http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/25841764

However, full Diary entries from 92 Sqn based at Biggin Hill in Jan 1941, paints a slightly more mild picture:
1.1.41 Dull with hard frost. No flying took place except one or two short flights by F/L Villa. The move of 92 to Manston has been postponed owing to difficulties with telephone communication from Manston to Biggin.
2.1.41 Another cold day with low cloud. No flying owing to bad weather conditions.
3.1.41 Again no flying except for individual practice flights. The move to Manston is still uncertain. Fl/Lt Wright tried to reach Manston by air but he had to return on account of snow storms and low clouds.
4.1.41 No flying today on account of low cloud. F/O Wright went down to Manston by road to remain there till the Squadron goes.
5.1.41 Bad weather with cold and slight snow. No flying all day. The machines are being run up every so many hours on account of the severe cold.
6.1.41 More snow today and no flying possible. The move to Manston is still postponed owing to the weather.
7.1.41 Dull and slight snow. No flying possible again.
8.1.41 Dull again. Flying impossible owing to low cloud. Orders to prepare to move to Manston tomorrow.
9.1.41 92 Squadron moved to Manston. The weather is bright and clear. 13 machines took off from Biggin Hill at 1145 hours for Manston. The convoy arrived at Manston late at night but the quarters were ready and the airmen were soon in barracks. ~The whole move went well and no hitch of any kind took place. Ft/Sgt Priter remained at Biggin Hill to clear up and was in charge of the rear party.
10.1.41 Another beautiful day of sunshine. All morning was spent inspecting quarters and the general lay out of the station. After lunch the Accounts Officer from Biggin arrived to complete the paying of the Squadron. 92 did its first offensive patrol and escorted bombers returning from France during the morning. This patrol was very satisfactory and 92 contacted the bombers and escorting fighters off the French coast and brought them home. No loss was suffered by us at all.
11.1.41 Dull with low cloud. The Squadron was released all day from 1000 hours. In the afternoon two 109s bombed and machine gunned the aerodrome but did not do any damage except for a small hole in one of the wings of a spitfire which was in the hanger.
12.1.41 Dull again with low cloud. No flying took place in the morning or the rest of the day.
13.1.41 Thick fog all day. No flying possible. The Squadron has now settled down to its new station.
14.1.41 Dull with fog no flying possible.
15.1.41 Bright and clear till about 1000 hours then fog with snow came over making flying impossible for the rest of the day. The C.O left for London.
16.1.41 The C.O. of 92 was presented with the Polish Vertuti Militari the V.C of Poland in London today. The weather at Manston was clear in the morning and a section did a patrol near the base. Cloud came over in the afternoon again.
17.1.41 Bright in the morning but mist came over again in the afternoon. Very little flying took place today.
18.1.41 Dull today with low cloud. A section took off at 1030 hours but had to land on account of the weather which gradually became worse. By noon snow was falling with a high wind. A blizzard was blowing for the rest of the day.
19.1.41 Several inches of snow on the aerodrome making flying impossible till later in the day when several patrols were carried out over the base.
20.1.41 Very wet morning with low cloud and mist. No flying possible all day.
21.1.41 No flying owing to bad weather.
22.1.41 Again no flying owing to bad weather
23.1.41 Clearer today. One sortie went off. P/O Fokes and Sgt. Lloyd damaged Dorier 172 over the Thames.
24.1.41 Low cloud making flying impossible.
25.1.41 Again. No flying owing to low cloud.
26.1.41 Only one sortie has been possible this week as the cloud has been almost down to ground level on the aerodrome.
27.1.41 No flying owing to bad weather
28.1.41 Again no flying clouds low
29.1.41 Mild but low cloud prevents flying again today
30.1.41 Low cloud this morning. No flying possible.
31.1.41 Rain and low cloud preventing all flying today.

Photo from Central London on January 11th 1941 shows little/ no snow at all on that date: http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9357000/9357545.stm

Osprey
Jan-28-2013, 12:15
I know it would be nice to imagine the kinds of snowfalls which mainland Europe get but anybody English who lives here, particularly in the South East, will tell you that Farber is bang on (and he's a northerner!). 'Heavy' snow is about 6 inches, we just had a 'Severe Weather Warning' only 2 weeks ago and about 5 inches fell. On the tops of our hill regions will be double and drift. It stayed for an extraordinary time in the South this time because of a blocking anti-cyclone over Germany etc. Remember, Britain is a maritime climate, we simply don't get the extremes that mainland Europe gets, we get warm air from the gulf stream all year, that typically means too warm for snow in the winter (2-8C) and crappy, rainy, Summers (20-25C). The South East is generally dryer and hotter.

So, order of the day in a Brit winter is typically warm rain (8C) from an Atlantic front or frost (if we have a blocking anti-cyclone over us). 1-3 days of snow per year which typically lasts a few days before it melts where everything stops - especially flight! Any Winter map should have green fields and bare trees, or a strong frost if you want the map cold. Make the trees red/orange like the Apalacians for Oct/Nov if you like. More realistic would be low cloud stopping flight altogether though ;) Sorry to disappoint pstyle but I live here and that's how it is.

And the BoB was over by November of course.


I would prefer the black out to be fixed on the map in Britain when it's dark - it's crazy having the towns lit up - this was strictly enforced by ARP Wardens, Police and Army.

~S~

III./ZG76_Saipan
Jan-28-2013, 12:28
will some some sort of crt or something happen to prevent FM tampering?

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-28-2013, 12:30
Hi Osprey,

Last night I flew the Channel mission with the 3:30 a.m. start time. After warming up I took off from Manston and headed southward towards Folkestone. I noted all buildings/towns were completely blacked out. However, as the sun peeked above the horizon at about 4 a.m., all the houses blazed with light with what I believe is overmodelled reflected sunlight. I noted even the west-facing (ie shaded) windows were alight with equal intensity, which isn't right. The overall effect, though, is as if everyone in town decided to flip on every light in the house. Hopefully this is an effect that can be tweaked downward a bit. (OK...a LOT!).

On the good side, there is now sunlight glinting off distant canopies from aircraft flying co-alt or higher. It is momentary if the plane is maneuvering, prolonged if the aircraft is holding course. Very helpful when trying to spot tiny dots in the early dawn light.

ATAG_Slipstream
Jan-28-2013, 13:51
I live in smack bang in the centre of England and while its true that the winters in recent years have been relatively mild, in the past they have been quite harsh. I remember as a child, my mum dealing with burst indoor pipes, having a pile of snow fall in on her when she opened the door and having to dig her way out. Electricity and telephone outages because heavy snow, and frost on the inside of the windows.

Even the snow recently was thick for a week, and not a sign of anything green. Ofcourse its easy to forget that nowadays we have the climate change issues.

Take a look of these aerial photos of England under snow:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompeyshoes/3339004907/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pompeyshoes/8284667676/in/photostream

or these

1615 1616 1617

I never remember anyone mentioning that we were confined to a three month period either.

~S~

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-28-2013, 13:55
I would prefer the black out to be fixed on the map in Britain when it's dark - it's crazy having the towns lit up - this was strictly enforced by ARP Wardens, Police and Army.
~S~

I would prefer this also.

SlipBall
Jan-28-2013, 17:40
Hi Osprey,

Last night I flew the Channel mission with the 3:30 a.m. start time. After warming up I took off from Manston and headed southward towards Folkestone. I noted all buildings/towns were completely blacked out. However, as the sun peeked above the horizon at about 4 a.m., all the houses blazed with light with what I believe is overmodelled reflected sunlight. I noted even the west-facing (ie shaded) windows were alight with equal intensity, which isn't right. The overall effect, though, is as if everyone in town decided to flip on every light in the house. Hopefully this is an effect that can be tweaked downward a bit. (OK...a LOT!).

On the good side, there is now sunlight glinting off distant canopies from aircraft flying co-alt or higher. It is momentary if the plane is maneuvering, prolonged if the aircraft is holding course. Very helpful when trying to spot tiny dots in the early dawn light.


Yes that is how the homes light themselves in game...one comes on here, then one over there, soon everyone is lite up. Well maybe not everyone :P

LG1.Farber
Jan-28-2013, 17:52
The Blackout in Britian was mandatory before the war began! :idea:

Oersted
Jan-28-2013, 19:18
I would prefer this also.

Definitely +2 here, black-out was strictly enforced, there shouldn't be a single light on houses at night!

ATAG_Colander
Jan-28-2013, 20:30
And... who will fly at that time?
I mean, when an early morning map is in rotation on ATAG, every one waits till the sun comes up before flying :)

thee_oddball
Jan-28-2013, 20:39
And... who will fly at that time?
I mean, when an early morning map is in rotation on ATAG, every one waits till the sun comes up before flying :)

sorry mate...but the REAL men are already in the air:-P we dont need are targeting computers!...we use the force:-)

Skoshi_Tiger
Jan-29-2013, 00:21
sorry mate...but the REAL men are already in the air:-P

Definately! Blenheims own the night!

Pitty finding any of the targets is so hard! :)

vranac
Jan-29-2013, 03:38
Definately! Blenheims own the night!

Pitty finding any of the targets is so hard! :)

Yes. And flak arround them shoots like in bright daylight :shoot::whacky4:

SlipBall
Jan-29-2013, 04:22
The Blackout in Britian was mandatory before the war began! :idea:

I think it is that way in the game, the lights are out during the night. They begin to slowly turn on at about nauticle twilight time, ...I notice that the bathroom light is the first to be turned on in neighborhoods with pub's

kopperdrake
Jan-29-2013, 07:58
Night-time flying in the Blenheim is so much fun - the thrill of taxiing across the airfield, hoping there's nothing between you and the end of the runway. Trying to find the ships purely by the occasional glance of sunlight from their portholes. And the eventual sun-bright flare of a German ship lighting up the sea around it as it burns, before sinking into the deep.

Morning raids are cracking :)

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-29-2013, 08:21
sorry mate...but the REAL men are already in the air:-P we dont need are targeting computers!...we use the force:-)

+1

Manston is the best airfield to launch a Spit or Hurri from - start up, warm up, and roll straight ahead....very little to bump into on take off. :D Just for those who haven't done a 3:30 a.m. mission yet, the last patch DID enforce the blackout. The countryside is discernible but cloaked in darkness. Incoming bombers are difficult to target, but the flak bursts are spectacular. The fireworks display is well worth the trouble, plus the early sunrise is beautifully done and a real pleasure to witness from 10 angels or better. As mentioned, the sun reflection off the building windows are overdone, but also look great from altitude. :thumbsup:

ATAG_Septic
Jan-29-2013, 10:12
+1

Manston is the best airfield to launch a Spit or Hurri from - start up, warm up, and roll straight ahead....very little to bump into on take off. :D Just for those who haven't done a 3:30 a.m. mission yet, the last patch DID enforce the blackout. The countryside is discernible but cloaked in darkness. Incoming bombers are difficult to target, but the flak bursts are spectacular. The fireworks display is well worth the trouble, plus the early sunrise is beautifully done and a real pleasure to witness from 10 angels or better. As mentioned, the sun reflection off the building windows are overdone, but also look great from altitude. :thumbsup:

I agree Snapper.

Septic.

Blitzen
Jan-29-2013, 11:28
Working landing lights would be nice...I can't remember if it was third party modders who eventually made them workable in IL-2..Of course they never were available on the 109...:P

ATAG_Deacon
Jan-29-2013, 14:49
+1

Manston is the best airfield to launch a Spit or Hurri from - start up, warm up, and roll straight ahead....very little to bump into on take off. :D Just for those who haven't done a 3:30 a.m. mission yet, the last patch DID enforce the blackout. The countryside is discernible but cloaked in darkness. Incoming bombers are difficult to target, but the flak bursts are spectacular. The fireworks display is well worth the trouble, plus the early sunrise is beautifully done and a real pleasure to witness from 10 angels or better. As mentioned, the sun reflection off the building windows are overdone, but also look great from altitude. :thumbsup:

~S~ Snapper. Agree re: Manston...however if you take a more southerly heading and climb past Lympne, turning towards French Point you can make out the marauders quite easily as they're now silhouetted against the rising sun :devilish:

It's also more difficult for escorts to pick you up in the darkness

ATAG_Colander
Jan-29-2013, 15:33
Hi all,

Just another little screenie. This time the progress about markings on static planes (Works in MP and SP).

1626

Note: No textures where harmed during the taking of this screenshot.

ATAG_Colander.

Continu0
Jan-29-2013, 15:40
Thanks! Everything going well, according to the plan? (if there is any;-)?)

Keep going, and again: Thank you very much!

SlipBall
Jan-29-2013, 16:13
+1..

ATAG_Colander
Jan-29-2013, 16:24
Everything going well, according to the plan? (if there is any;-)?)

The plan is to follow the plan unless there's a new plan that replaces the plan even though there are some things that can't be planned.

Alice
Jan-29-2013, 17:33
The plan is to follow the plan unless there's a new plan that replaces the plan even though there are some things that can't be planned.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhTDNlbsSc

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-29-2013, 18:28
The plan is to follow the plan unless there's a new plan that replaces the plan even though there are some things that can't be planned.

"We will release no patch before its time!" :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpj0t2ozPWY&amp;sns=em

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Jan-30-2013, 05:57
Questions for modders:
1) Will there be any changes to open canopy? Such as increased drag or implementing a slow black-out of canopy is opened above a certain altitude?
2) Any changes to clouds that would improve their FPS impact, make them non-transparent from a distance, or remove the unrealistic prop icing.

Thank you for your efforts.

Oersted
Jan-30-2013, 09:43
Openng or closing the canopy did not change the air pressure in the cockpit.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-30-2013, 09:50
Opening or closing the canopy did not change the air pressure in the cockpit.

Correct as far as I am aware. The spitfires at least until the high altitude variants (Mark 6?) were not pressurised. This is why the pilots wore oxygen masks.

As far as I can tell, at LOW RPM (below 2400) if you open the spitfire canopy you already lose airspeed - but it seems slight, maybe 5 to 10 mph indicated. At higher RPM, the open/closed canopy does not appear to have an effect on airspeed. I am prepared to be contradicted on this, because I did, for a long time, think that there was no effect modeled. I'm now not so convinced.

kopperdrake
Jan-30-2013, 10:14
I have found a difference in airspeed on the Spitfire IIa between a cockpit open or shut, sometimes quite discernible, especially in formation when trying to match others in the same group. However, I can not see the same difference in a Hurricane 100oct, if there is a difference then it is so slight as to be ineffectual.

Osprey
Jan-30-2013, 11:02
I think notafinger's real complaint is not about loss of speed or no hypoxia but the 'sound radar'. In real life pilots flew at many altitudes with open canopies so there is nothing wrong in that.

Fix this problem and you will mysteriously not hear a dickybird about open canopies anymore! ;)

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-30-2013, 11:24
I think notafinger's real complaint is not about loss of speed or no hypoxia but the 'sound radar'. In real life pilots flew at many altitudes with open canopies so there is nothing wrong in that.
Fix this problem and you will mysteriously not hear a dickybird about open canopies anymore! ;)

I agree, sounds radar needs to be fixed/ eliminated. It could be difficult to implement though, whilst still allowing some very loud sounds from nearby to be heard.

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-30-2013, 11:49
Perhaps an interim work around would be to greatly increase the sound of the rushing wind -- with open canopy -- from currently "mildly annoying" to a "dull roar", all but drowning out the sound of your own engine. That should knock out the sound radar issue (which is valid IMHO) in a realistic manner. I can barely hear my Hog's performance pipes at highway speeds of 70 mph because of the wind noise; I can't imagine what 300 mph would be like. The same can be said for most cars when opening the driver-side window. LOUD!!!!

I believe that there are accounts of Hurricane pilots flying with open canopies because of their fear of fire, but with outside temps of -40 F at altitude, I can't imagine that being the norm.

I don't know the Real Life decrease in speed due to extra drag, in sim I've found it to be about -5 mph or so. I rarely fly with canopy open in recent months, other than take offs and landings. Back in the times I did I found that I still got bounced on occasion because it's too easy (for me) to get lulled into a false sense of security. The sound radar wasn't reliable; possibly attacking 109's were chopping throttle on approach, but that is not historically accurate. Nor is it fair to expect an attacking pilot to sacrifice energy by cutting throttle so as not to be heard.

Keeping the canopy closed forces me to clear my six more often, especially if I have no wingmate flying in a combat spread formation with me. Sometimes I've slid the canopy back for a few moments to get a better look at a target, but that's about it. Besides, how often have you found a 109 slightly outside a firing solution that an extra 5 or 10 mph just might close? For me -- lots, it seems. For me, canopy stays closed.

One aspect of damage modelling for the Spits that I hope is resolved, someday, is its nasty habit of shedding control surfaces in a dive at 420 mph, when the Real Life Spit 1a/2a's were cleared for 450 mph. Booming in a Spitfire is so much more rewarding when you can follow up with a zoom! :D

Ohms
Jan-30-2013, 13:21
Slip, think of yourself as a evolved Englishman!

Salute Ohmie:)

ATAG_Slipstream
Jan-30-2013, 13:25
Slip, think of yourself as a evolved Englishman!

Salute Ohmie:)

Comment of the year Ohmie! :thumbsup:

Salute mate!

kopperdrake
Jan-31-2013, 07:39
...the 2ft snowfall in 1982...

2ft! Crikey - we had to use ice picks to get out the house, and built multi-storey igloos in the snow drifts. We rid ourselves of the fridge and freezer, no need for them you see - and the milk was delivered as an icey block rather than in pint bottles - when offered a cup of tea and you were asked 'one lump or two', you had to be careful whether they were talking about sugar or milk! I remember dad one morning mumbling something about 'maybe gone for a while...' before stepping outside. To this day I still wonder what happened to him...

In all honesty, we do remember the extremes far better than the common and mundane. The reality, I fear, is three or four inches of snow, lasting one or two weeks maximum, maybe twice over a winter if it's particularly bad. The rest is a mix of cold frosts, cold rain, a bit of wind, bit of fog and some sunshine. And some cracking sunrise and sunsets :)

Mastiff
Jan-31-2013, 09:21
Hi all,

Just another little screenie. This time the progress about markings on static planes (Works in MP and SP).

1626

Note: No textures where harmed during the taking of this screenshot.

ATAG_Colander.

no one noticed the ME110 missing from that line up ?

LG1.Klein
Jan-31-2013, 09:25
no one noticed the ME110 missing from that line up ?

Just more of the norm. :D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jan-31-2013, 09:52
What we have is the Met Office records plus just about all of the people who live in England saying the same thing, and then there are these example photographs. What you are implying is that this is typical British winter, when it isn't.
I think typical conditions are largely irrelevant. What is more important is: - What WERE the SE-England conditions actually like in January/February 1941. That's the first winter after the BoB and the winter that should be represented in any map. So, if that winter was particularly severe then there is no harm in a map presenting those conditions. If that winter had a max 30cm snowfall in the South-east, then that's all that should be modeled on a map. If there was a 2m dump that took 3 weeks to thaw, then those conditions should be modeled.
We should only default to "typical" conditions in the absence of any historical data about actual conditions.



If I ever see a Channel snow map arrive in COD then I won't bother to build a mission for it because simply put the RAF didn't fly in that weather when it occurred.
Once the snow stopped falling, the RAF flew.
See the 92Sqn Log which details only two days of non flying in the snow storm period in January 1941.

ATAG_Colander
Jan-31-2013, 10:06
no one noticed the ME110 missing from that line up ?

It wasn't done on purpose. There's nothing to hide :D

Osprey
Jan-31-2013, 12:30
Hi Osprey,

Last night I flew the Channel mission with the 3:30 a.m. start time. After warming up I took off from Manston and headed southward towards Folkestone. I noted all buildings/towns were completely blacked out. However, as the sun peeked above the horizon at about 4 a.m., all the houses blazed with light with what I believe is overmodelled reflected sunlight. I noted even the west-facing (ie shaded) windows were alight with equal intensity, which isn't right. The overall effect, though, is as if everyone in town decided to flip on every light in the house. Hopefully this is an effect that can be tweaked downward a bit. (OK...a LOT!).

On the good side, there is now sunlight glinting off distant canopies from aircraft flying co-alt or higher. It is momentary if the plane is maneuvering, prolonged if the aircraft is holding course. Very helpful when trying to spot tiny dots in the early dawn light.

Hi Snapper, I didn't realise that they'd fixed it, I don't get up very early in a virtual morning ;)

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-31-2013, 12:39
Hi Snapper, I didn't realise that they'd fixed it, I don't get up very early in a virtual morning ;)

No worries, mate. Other than a very few intrepid bomber types on both sides, most of us take the 3:30 am start as an excellent time to go for a sandwich or write a short novel. LOL

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-31-2013, 12:45
It wasn't done on purpose. There's nothing to hide :D

It's a conspiracy, I tell you.....AN ANTI-110 CONSPIRACY!!!!!! :devilish:

:-P

StormBat
Jan-31-2013, 20:22
I love this sim flaws and all. knowing that we have some good people working hard, putting in their time and a hell of an effort to bring life back into it. So my hat's off to you. Thanks so very much for all your doing. Now when the hell is it coming out!!! :-P Just Kidding!!! I can wait I can wait I have patience now that I have taken up the Blenheim.

Mastiff
Jan-31-2013, 23:19
It wasn't done on purpose. There's nothing to hide :D

didn't suspect that, I just though you meant to put it in, but forgot and used another ME217?