Contact spotting

[DUI]

Hi fellow pilots,

Did you ever wonder if you really can see contacts in TFCliffs worse than other pilots? Here is a small single player mission that might help you to find out.
Of course, besides from supporting with monitor calibration (http://bilder.hifi-forum.de/max/599076/gray-values-1920-1080_247121.jpg) (e. g. brightness, contrast, gamma, sharpness) the mission also helps to quickly check if/how SweetFX and other software-based adjustments influence the contact visibility.

Instructions:
1. Download this zip-archive (http://jagdgeschwader4.de/media/kunena/attachments/329/contact-spotting.zip),
2. extract the three files to your missions-directory in "...\Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\missions\Single",
3. start up TFCliffs and choose in "Single Player/Single Mission" the mission "Contact Spotting" *.
4. Directly after you have spawned in the plane (109) pause the game (default: "p") and
5. choose the pre-defined 30° zoom-view (default: "Delete").
6. Now count the contacts that you somehow can see in the area left to your plane's gunsight - as tiny and bright the pixels may be.

In total there are up to 16 contacts (Spitfires) that are positioned in 1 km steps from a distance of 1 km to 16 km.

On my screen I somehow can see 14 of the 16 contacts (see attached image):
http://jagdgeschwader4.de/media/kunena/attachments/329/contact-spotting-dui_2014-11-12.png

In a real flight situation I probably "only" would have some realistic chance to see 11 contacts (meaning contacts up to a distance of 11 km against this bright-blue sky).

So, someone more/less? :D

* Note - thanks to ATAG_Lewis (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13915&p=223368&viewfull=1#post223368): The 109 that you spawn in should be standing on the ground. If you spawn in an already airborne plane you have to adapt your "realism settings":
Before starting the mission go into 'Custom'..then 'Realism Options'....and check All the 'Visual aides' and check 'Mission Take-Off and Landing'...

[vranac]

I haven't tried it live Dui but on my "cheap" IPS monitor I see them all at your screenshot when you pointed them out.

Usually I would think I forgot to clean my monitor and ignore those far away ones :laugh:

There is some advantage with pilots flying with 30"+ TV's from my experience with my friends. Pixels are bigger.
They are those 20/20 vision guys that would spot contacts earlier than others, but that was historically confirmed in memoirs :D

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

I see only 8 (on a 28" Samsung TV). Thanks Dui, might have to tweak my settings.

Might as well compare the TV with my original 23in Acer PC monitor to see if there is much of an adavantage using the TV. :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Colander]

Just an FYI, I had to disable Anti Aliasing as it was killing some of the distant contacts.
You might want to try that too.

[kampf]

Thanks I'll try it. But I found out, and is stated somewhere in the forum too, that using largest fov, instead of default or 30, makes long range dots easier to spot.

[ATAG_((dB))]

I've tried but I can't see any aircraft at all, that weird

[PanTast]

Thanks DUI. Great thing :thumbsup:

On my new LG 34UM65-P I am able to see 14 contacts.

:)

[Silver]

Hi fellow pilots,

Did you ever wonder if you really can see contacts in TFCliffs worse than other pilots? Here is a small single player mission that might help you to find out............the mission also helps to quickly check if/how SweetFX and other software-based adjustments influence the contact visibility...................

................In total there are up to 16 contacts (Spitfires) that are positioned in 1 km steps from a distance of 1 km to 16 km.............


thx for posting this test file :D

It would be useful if people who do this visibility test also state:
- the size of their monitor (brand and model number is also useful)
- the approx distance they have their eyes from the screen during gaming
- that if they dont see some of the more distant dots from their normal viewing/playing distance, that they more closely examine the screen where the know dots should be (if needed with a magnifying glass), to determine if on closer inspection of the screen there is any indication of these same distant spitfire dots

[DUI]

I've tried but I can't see any aircraft at all, that weird

Did you successfully spawn in the (grounded) 109? No planes in the area left of the gunsight?
No matter what the monitor or software settings are, everyone should at least see the 3-5 rather closeby contacts...

Btw: If you are not sure about the results there is an easy way to confirm the displayed contacts: Make a screenshot by pressing the "print"-key on your keyboard. Paste the data into an image program (i. e. Windows Paint, Gimp) and zoom into the new picture. Even those tiny, bright pixels get bigger this way and you should clearly be able to identify them. :photographer:

[OBT~Mikmak]

I count 16 dots (i have modify my icon.rcu with this procedure (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13882&p=151964#post151964)).
With the original "icon.rcu", i can see only 8 dots...

[OBT~Mikmak]

original "icon.rcu" :
http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/17/86/51/08/dot_or10.jpg

modified "icon.rcu" :
http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/17/86/51/08/dot_2510.jpg

[ATAG_((dB))]

Did you successfully spawn in the (grounded) 109? No planes in the area left of the gunsight?
No matter what the monitor or software settings are, everyone should at least see the 3-5 rather closeby contacts...

Btw: If you are not sure about the results there is an easy way to confirm the displayed contacts: Make a screenshot by pressing the "print"-key on your keyboard. Paste the data into an image program (i. e. Windows Paint, Gimp) and zoom into the new picture. Even those tiny, bright pixels get bigger this way and you should clearly be able to identify them. :photographer:

I've spawn in the air with engine running on a 109. As soon as I've spawn I press pause as it is said. I can see any contact. Like you said Imshould at least see a couple one's. I'll try a screen shot tomorrow

[hnbdgr]

Thank you for this. I can see 15-16 when zoomed in at 30 degrees. but lots of them are super faint.

Also - dammit you had to go and remind me of that matte film on my screen, I hate that thing with a passion, wish they made a gloss 120hz monitor :)

[ATAG_((dB))]

13374

This is mine, as you see there is not even one contacts, That not normal because in game I can see, maybe not at 10 km but I can see. You you think it have something to do with my ATI GPU not rendering on that mission?

[SorcererDave]

I've found (weirdly) that completely opposite to other flight sims I've played, in CloD the more zoomed OUT your view is, the easier it is to spot contacts. I've replaced the normal "gunsight view/wide view" zoom setup with a more gradual one like you get in DCS and Rise of Flight, which allows you to zoom all the way out to a slightly silly Quake-esque level of FOV and it's improved my spotting of distant contacts immeasurably.

Can anyone shed any light on why this is? In DCS/RoF/BoS and 1946 it's easier to spot contacts the more you zoom in but in CloD it's all bass-ackwards for some reason. It's insanely hard to spot long range dots when you're zoomed in to the max.

[hnbdgr]

I've found (weirdly) that completely opposite to other flight sims I've played, in CloD the more zoomed OUT your view is, the easier it is to spot contacts. I've replaced the normal "gunsight view/wide view" zoom setup with a more gradual one like you get in DCS and Rise of Flight, which allows you to zoom all the way out to a slightly silly Quake-esque level of FOV and it's improved my spotting of distant contacts immeasurably.

Can anyone shed any light on why this is? In DCS/RoF/BoS and 1946 it's easier to spot contacts the more you zoom in but in CloD it's all bass-ackwards for some reason. It's insanely hard to spot long range dots when you're zoomed in to the max.

It has to do with LOD change at certain zoom levels. Zooming out will enhance (darken) the pixels far out so it's easier to spot them. when you start zooming in, they lighten up until a lod change happens. However contacts that are about 3km and closer (dunno how far the lod change actually occurs) will be easier to spot on 60 and 30 zoom not on widest settings. You're better off checking your six with 60 zoom then 90 or more.

It's a bit annoying as the engine uses a dot system where the others use a different technology. Also it means that at certain zoom levels, contacts against dark backgrounds (especially on morning or evening maps) will "disappear" but zoom in just a bit more and they start rendering properly.

I personally wish there was a way to mount a key to a particular zoom level, like 45 - that seems to be sweet spot for gunnery. if anyone knows let me know!

EDIT: numbers, coming from photography I get these 2 mixed up, 30 degrees in photography is wide. In here it describes the cone, not the focal length - hence it means zoomed.

[DUI]

Thank you for this. I can see 15-16 when zoomed in at 30 degrees.

Do you also use this icon.rcu tweak? If not then it is a new "record" for the default settings. :thumbsup:


However contacts that are about 3km and closer (dunno how far the lod change actually occurs) will be easier to spot on 60 and 30 zoom not on widest settings. You're better off checking your six with 60 zoom then 90 or more.

This is also the way that I try to spot contacts: Flying in 90° view and as soon as I see a contact I zoom-in and try to identify it.
Nevertheless, in the testmission I can see those extremely distant contacts only if I am zoomed-in.


This is mine, as you see there is not even one contacts

As you also mentioned that you are spawning in an already airborne 109: I think you are starting a different mission. In the test mission you should be in a grounded 109 with a turned-off engine.
Maybe, give it another try and download the zip-archive again. :salute:

[ATAG_((dB))]

I did, twice and I am always spawning in the air

[DUI]

In this case I have no clue. There is supposed to be only the one single 109 (the grounded one) in this mission... :getaway:

[Mysticpuma]

I did, twice and I am always spawning in the air

In your 'Realism' options, do you have take off and landing unticked?

[ATAG_Dave]

Thanks for posting this DUI - very interesting

I can see 14 contacts - tho the 14th is extremely faint I can only really see it if I move closer to the screen and I doubt I would see it / notice it in-game

39" LED LCD Sharp 1080p TV (cant remember model number but its a cheap one)
Im sitting 1m from the screen

[ATAG_((dB))]

13 planes that would make sense. Thank you Mysticpuma that was the problem:banghead:

[FZG_Immel]

I can see 11..

and that is going very close to the screen, and from an angle from below.

[ATAG_Colander]

I can see 11..

and that is going very close to the screen, and from an angle from below.

Increase your monitor contrast or gamma.
In my case, I increased the gamma on the nVidia control panel.

[FZG_Immel]

Increase your monitor contrast or gamma.
In my case, I increased the gamma on the nVidia control panel.

I tried. doesnt seem to have any positive effect unfortunately.

[hnbdgr]

Immel is this with the edited RCU file? I have the modified RCU file and can spot almost all of the contacts, though some are very faint. Either way keep the RCU file it doesn't matter that it's server side when MP.

The other thing you need to look at is your NVidia settings (some people claim AF value is important) and conf.ini (or confuser ini? can't remember) There's certain things you can change there like visibility distance etc.

EDIT: This is mine





[core]
RandSeed = 0
TexQual=3
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=0
Shadows=1
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
LandShading=2
LandDetails=2
Sky=3
Forest=1
VisibilityDistance=30
LandGeom=2
DrawCollisions=1
Water=-1
Effects=1
EffFlags.Light=1
EffFlags.SpriteRender=0
Grass=3
CordEffect=1
UseFog=0
UseLandCube=1
UseLandConnectedObject=1
LinearObjectManager=1
Roads=1
Sun=1
Clouds=1
EffFlags.LightSpritesProj=1
ShadowMapSize=5
TexFlags.AsyncLoad=1
TexFlags.ShowTexture=0
SimpleMesh.SWTransform=0
SimpleMesh.QuadTreeClip=1
SimpleMesh.InstancingHW=1
EffFlags.LightContextSprites=1
CloudsFlags.Detailed=1
TexFlags.CreateHDR=1
Decals=2
EffFlags.SWLight=0
TexFlags.CockpitOnePass=0
MegaTexture=0
TexFlags.Reflection=0
RenderTargetQual=3
MSAA=2
MeshStatics=0
MeshStaticsDetail=0
SimpleMesh.QTNoCompose=0
MeshFirstLod=0
MeshShowLod=0
SpawnHumans=0
TexFlags.SSAO=0
TexFlags.VSync=1

[FZG_Immel]

Immel is this with the edited RCU file? I have the modified RCU file and can spot almost all of the contacts, though some are very faint. Either way keep the RCU file it doesn't matter that it's server side when MP.

The other thing you need to look at is your NVidia settings (some people claim AF value is important) and conf.ini (or confuser ini? can't remember) There's certain things you can change there like visibility distance etc.

EDIT: This is mine





[core]
RandSeed = 0
TexQual=3
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=0
Shadows=1
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
LandShading=2
LandDetails=2
Sky=3
Forest=1
VisibilityDistance=30
LandGeom=2
DrawCollisions=1
Water=-1
Effects=1
EffFlags.Light=1
EffFlags.SpriteRender=0
Grass=3
CordEffect=1
UseFog=0
UseLandCube=1
UseLandConnectedObject=1
LinearObjectManager=1
Roads=1
Sun=1
Clouds=1
EffFlags.LightSpritesProj=1
ShadowMapSize=5
TexFlags.AsyncLoad=1
TexFlags.ShowTexture=0
SimpleMesh.SWTransform=0
SimpleMesh.QuadTreeClip=1
SimpleMesh.InstancingHW=1
EffFlags.LightContextSprites=1
CloudsFlags.Detailed=1
TexFlags.CreateHDR=1
Decals=2
EffFlags.SWLight=0
TexFlags.CockpitOnePass=0
MegaTexture=0
TexFlags.Reflection=0
RenderTargetQual=3
MSAA=2
MeshStatics=0
MeshStaticsDetail=0
SimpleMesh.QTNoCompose=0
MeshFirstLod=0
MeshShowLod=0
SpawnHumans=0
TexFlags.SSAO=0
TexFlags.VSync=1


nope. without the edited RCU file. RCU files doesnt work online, so I dont care for it.

thanks. will compare the .ini

[FZG_Immel]

Forest=3
VisibilityDistance=64
MeshStatics=1
MeshStaticsDetail=2

I have those. not changing forest, and visiblity distance doesnt seem to have an impact.

what about those 'mesh' ?

[hnbdgr]

nope. without the edited RCU file. RCU files doesnt work online, so I dont care for it.

thanks. will compare the .ini

Well then you need to use the same icon.rcu values that server-side icon.rcu has, even if it's for your offline tests. Colander might know what those are I'm hoping..?

[hnbdgr]

I have those. not changing forest, and visiblity distance doesnt seem to have an impact.

what about those 'mesh' ?

I don't know I reckon those are influenced by graphic options in-game. Can't remember if I changed those manually.

[FZG_Immel]

What monitor do you have DUI ? What about you guys who posted in this thread.

I currently own a samsung syncmaster P2770 but I'm on the verge of buying a new asus VS278Q

[JG4_sKylon]

I can see 14 contacts in this test mission, the last 2 only have size of 1 pixel and grey.
Have set DSR to 2.0x, no AA or any other postprocessing. Brightness, contrast etc all on default at the NVIDIA settings.

Monitor is a 32'' TV, here is a link to the successor of my model: http://www.amazon.de/Toshiba-32L2433DG-LED-Backlight-Fernseher-Hotelmodus-schwarz/dp/B00ICF9A4C/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

[FZG_Immel]

I can see only 11 currently. And at least 5 of them are single grey pixels.

[DUI]

What monitor do you have DUI ?

I have an about three year old 24" LG monitor (LG W2442PA) with a resolution of 1.920x1.080.

I think I already wrote it in the initial post: I do not use any special software settings - just plain AMD driver for my HD6970 with in-game AA activated.

[Holger_081]

I can see 12 contacts; one more when i am nearer to my monitor.
AMD 7970
Acer H274HL 27'' FHD
no sweetfx
AA on

[EAF51/155_TonyRule]

I find the spit easier to spot than 109.

[FZG_Immel]

I find the spit easier to spot than 109.

im pretty sure that at the distance they are hard to see (>7km) the pixel looks the same....

[ATAG_Snapper]

"Whoever saw the enemy first, won."

"Lose sight, lose fight."

I've stickied this thread because, courtesy of DUI (:salute:), we have a simple but ingenious method to determine how effectively our PC/monitor system can spot distant contacts in Cliffs of Dover. I now automatically use DUI's little mission (link and directions in the OP) after I've made ANY video setting changes, be they changes in Nvidia Control Panel, ingame settings, or settings on my TV-monitor. For instance, when I changed my TV's resolution from its native 1920 x 1080p to Nvidia's new down sampling DSR 2.0 33% smoothing, my "dot count" decreased from 14 down to 5!!! Actually, I couldn't see any pixel-dots at all, just the 5 LOD planes of varying sizes (ranges).

In this sim, that equals "dead" IMHO. With DSR activated the terrain and countryside look gorgeous. No wigglies when zoomed out within the cockpit or looking at mid-distant terrain. But for me pretty scenery is too high a price to pay to surrender tactical advantage.

Many thanks to DUI for providing such an easy way to check this vitally important aspect of this sim! :thumbsup:

[Wilhelm]

Aren't there any adjustments that can be made in future updates to help with this? It's not that difficult in real life.

[JG4_sKylon]

"Whoever saw the enemy first, won."

"Lose sight, lose fight."

I've stickied this thread because, courtesy of DUI (:salute:), we have a simple but ingenious method to determine how effectively our PC/monitor system can spot distant contacts in Cliffs of Dover. I now automatically use DUI's little mission (link and directions in the OP) after I've made ANY video setting changes, be they changes in Nvidia Control Panel, ingame settings, or settings on my TV-monitor. For instance, when I changed my TV's resolution from its native 1920 x 1080p to Nvidia's new down sampling DSR 2.0 33% smoothing, my "dot count" decreased from 14 down to 5!!! Actually, I couldn't see any pixel-dots at all, just the 5 LOD planes of varying sizes (ranges).

In this sim, that equals "dead" IMHO. With DSR activated the terrain and countryside look gorgeous. No wigglies when zoomed out within the cockpit or looking at mid-distant terrain. But for me pretty scenery is too high a price to pay to surrender tactical advantage.

Many thanks to DUI for providing such an easy way to check this vitally important aspect of this sim! :thumbsup:


Hey Snapper,

did you check in the TV settings whether it has some "sharpening" function?
At default setting (50%) i seem to lose visibility of 2-3 contacts (not 9 like you which is really strange!), i´ve increased the value then et voilà, i see 14 again.
Check this and vary the TV sharpness and the DSR smoothing to find the sweet spot. Too much sharpen with minimum smoothing does not look good ( halos like in photographs wich are too much sharpened).

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hey Snapper,

did you check in the TV settings whether it has some "sharpening" function?
At default setting (50%) i seem to lose visibility of 2-3 contacts (not 9 like you which is really strange!), i´ve increased the value then et voilà, i see 14 again.
Check this and vary the TV sharpness and the DSR smoothing to find the sweet spot. Too much sharpen with minimum smoothing does not look good ( halos like in photographs wich are too much sharpened).

Good thoughts, Skylon. My TV indeed has a bunch of menu settings, including sharpening, contrast, etc etc. Based on your findings here, perhaps I need to play with these and the DSR settings a little more before writing off DSR as bad for spotting contacts. The search continues....LOL :thumbsup:

[JG4_sKylon]

Snapper,

just for orientation:

in Nvidia control panel i have all post processing off! Setting AA in combination with DSR might influence spotting, at least some reported this.
I did not notice any difference, but you might want to check this also.

Contrast, Brightness and Gamma are all set to 50 in Nvidia control panel. After new installation of OS and graphic driver there was no more need for me to play with them (and i finally see something on "Relinquish" haha).

[FZG_Immel]

"Whoever saw the enemy first, won."

"Lose sight, lose fight."

I've stickied this thread because, courtesy of DUI (:salute:), we have a simple but ingenious method to determine how effectively our PC/monitor system can spot distant contacts in Cliffs of Dover. I now automatically use DUI's little mission (link and directions in the OP) after I've made ANY video setting changes, be they changes in Nvidia Control Panel, ingame settings, or settings on my TV-monitor. For instance, when I changed my TV's resolution from its native 1920 x 1080p to Nvidia's new down sampling DSR 2.0 33% smoothing, my "dot count" decreased from 14 down to 5!!! Actually, I couldn't see any pixel-dots at all, just the 5 LOD planes of varying sizes (ranges).

In this sim, that equals "dead" IMHO. With DSR activated the terrain and countryside look gorgeous. No wigglies when zoomed out within the cockpit or looking at mid-distant terrain. But for me pretty scenery is too high a price to pay to surrender tactical advantage.

Many thanks to DUI for providing such an easy way to check this vitally important aspect of this sim! :thumbsup:

That is why believe the server distance visibility should be increased. It would allow everyone to play with nice graphics, antialiasing, etc. without getting 'blind' and combat ineffective.

If some want to keep playing with ugly graphism to see at 15km instead of 10km, it doesn't matter. 10km is far enough to take defensive actions anyway.

As a side not, I changed my monitor. I bought a asus VS278Q (previously using a samsung syncmaster P2770) and while I don't see much farther away (13dots instead of 11) I can see them much better when they have a ground or water background.

Also, my first sortie on the server, I didn't miss a pass on bandits. Everytime i pressed the trigger hit the plane I was aiming at, and went home with a 4.88 score and 6 confirmed kills, with 3 cannons rounds left in each cannon. (I fire all guns at the same time).

I think the 1ms makes a huge difference

[Little_D]

Hi gents,

i set my grafik-settings and monitor settings to a new standart, to see the contacts in the posted singleplayer mission.
i can see 12 contacts now, without Track IR, but as soonest i use Track IR i only can see 5 contacts?

is this normal?

and by the way what is DSR?

regards

Little_D

[javelina]

I can manage to see 14, and I think I can see a 15th, almost.

- Currently using a Samsung 39" LED HDTV
- 1920 x 1080 (no DSR, I don't want to loose those "dots").
- nVidia GTX 970
- No SweetFX (running Win 8.1, though SweetFX works fine with DCS + Win8.1) :)
- AA on

[hnbdgr]

Hi gents,

i set my grafik-settings and monitor settings to a new standart, to see the contacts in the posted singleplayer mission.
i can see 12 contacts now, without Track IR, but as soonest i use Track IR i only can see 5 contacts?

is this normal?

and by the way what is DSR?

regards

Little_D

headtracking has absolutely no impact on my graphics. I don't use trackir5 however. Maybe you have sweetfx and bound the same key to start/stop trackir as well as sweetfx?

[trooph]

7 contacts no matter what i do...;/

[hnbdgr]

I think people need to be aware that if that they ought to use the same rcu file as the server uses if they want to check this appropriately. Otherwise if you're checking with default or customized settings you will see not enough dots or all of them which might be unrealistic. Does someone have the values for the server RCU?

EDIT: not URL, RCU. words hard they are

[Silver]

i have just reinstalled CoD, but not added the TF patches yet (have used the official steam updates)

i can only see 5 contacts (one of which is very faint) @ native monitor resolution of 1920 x 1200
if i reduce my resolution to 1024 x 764 i can see 7 contacts
changing the FoV from 30 to 70 or 90 doesnt change the amount of dots i see for the distant aircraft,


PC using a 27' Dell monitor (model 2707WFP with 8 bit S-PVA panel ). an aging 1gb 5770 ati card, with win7 64 bit on a Intel i7-4770K CPU @3.50GHz, with 24 gb system ram)

[Continu0]

i have just reinstalled CoD, but not added the TF patches yet (have used the official steam updates)

i can only see 5 contacts (one of which is very faint) @ native monitor resolution of 1920 x 1200
if i reduce my resolution to 1024 x 764 i can see 7 contacts
changing the FoV from 30 to 70 or 90 doesnt change the amount of dots i see for the distant aircraft,


PC using a 27' Dell monitor (model 2707WFP with 8 bit S-PVA panel ). an aging 1gb 5770 ati card, with win7 64 bit on a Intel i7-4770K CPU @3.50GHz, with 24 gb system ram)

Add the TF-patches and you will probably see improvement. The LOD-Rendering was changed with the patches!

[Mysticpuma]

I honestly thought this was a thread about Team Fusion :)

[ATAG_Snapper]

I honestly thought this was a thread about Team Fusion :)

Moved to the Technical Section.

[Silver]

Add the TF-patches and you will probably see improvement. The LOD-Rendering was changed with the patches!

most of the distant aircraft in this mission file are in the form of Dots, so no LoD models are being used for the smallest most distant dots that are the hardest to see in this visibility test. i am not aware if TF also changed the visibility of distant dots (i remember they worked on correcting errors in LoD models), and worked on the "disapearing aircraft" problem (a bug) where some aircraft suddenly become invisible at certain distances.

i just did a fresh install of vanilla CoD directly from my DVD, but without letting steam update it (on install it shows v 1.0013820). so this is as the game was originally released (including still having its annoying anti epilepsy filter etc)
- i can now see 9 contacts

letting steam update CoD to v 1.1120362 with all the official CoD patches via steam
- i can now only see 5 contacts !!

[Continu0]

and with the tf-patches?

[Silver]

Good thoughts, Skylon. My TV indeed has a bunch of menu settings, including sharpening, contrast, etc etc. Based on your findings here, perhaps I need to play with these and the DSR settings a little more before writing off DSR as bad for spotting contacts. The search continues....LOL :thumbsup:

any comparison of how well we can see these distant aircraft dots has to be with a correctly calibrated monitor, and NOT be determined by how extensive people can artificially distort the normal video on their monitors just so they can see dots better in games like il2/CoD. This means that as a starting point for any comparison of distant dot visibility, our monitors should be setup to produce the most accurate and best possible colors and detail for normal uses (eg, looking at images/photos and video, web and desktop office use, and gaming). :D Ideally for calibration we would all prefer to use hardware calibration (because it is more accurate), but for this you need a specialized piece of hardware that can cost from 300 to 1500$, so software calibration is our baseline. since we only use calibration once when you first buy a new monitor/gfx card to set it up correctly, software calibration is a low cost and easy to use process, and it will allow us to get the most out of our existing hardware with no additional cost. The main adjustments done in this process are normally, gamma (being the least reliable), brightness, contrast, colour, and sharpness. there are free online resources for this.

we need to try and avoid using these video adjustment settings for flightsim gaming that alter/distort "normal settings" just for the single purpose of maximizing how well you can see distant aircraft dots or Lod models in CoD. this will artificially increase what the game is intended to display OR what the human eye would normally see in a similar Real Life situation (presuming the game is correctly programed and has no inbuilt distortions or errors). imho it is much more important we still try and figure out what residual LoD model visibility problems there still are in CoD and make sure dot visibility is not beyond a realistic visibility range, and resolve these "errors" with future TF edits/patches.

for ex, in the early days of the il2 series there were many online stat whores who would radically change their video settings to gain an unfair advantage. the end result was that their idea of fun was to fly around in an ultra low detailed empty landscape, using resolution settings for their monitors that were 1/2 or 1/4 of its native resolution, and use ingame colors which made it look like a fluro post Chernobyl landscape. the end result was that they were chasing aircraft LoD models that looked like flying lego blocks, and distant aircraft dots would be seen as big ugly blobs that stand out as like dogs balls at 4x the distance you would normally perceive them with the human eye !!

is this really the path we want to go down with CoD ? i suspect most CoD enthusiasts that support TF would say no to this.

for the above visibility test file, the ballpark figure of what a human with 20/20 vision could see a small single engine aircraft at under good visibility conditions is probably around 5 km. there could be exceptional circumstances where it might be a little further, eg multiple small aircraft closely clumped together and having sun reflections bounce of them at just the right angles etc, but that should NOT be our reference point of what is "normal" visibility under most conditions. i would sugest that NOT being able to see all the aircraft dots in the test mission file is a good/normal result :thumbsup:

this is of course presuming that our aim with CoD is to SIMULATE what a real ww2 fighter pilot would experience under similar flying/viewing conditions, and accepting that we shouldnt artificially give ourselves 360 degree superman radar vision. not being able to see aircraft from certain distances was just part of the real life experience. obviously this simple visibility test mission file is just the start of inter-player comparison, i just wanted to caution against people trying to see ALL aircraft in that file, some of the more distant dots are in fact beyond what normal human vision can see. the way CoD is programmed right now, imho some of these same dots (up to 5 km) are probably still NOT visible enough when seen against water/ground terrain, and are TO VISIBLE against open blue sky (but reducing this visibility against open blue sky will also make them less visible against terrain/water background so reducing their visibility is probably the least important error)), and most of the dots beyond 5km should simply not be visible at all.

[Vlerkies]

My monitors are calibrated with a Spyder4ELite.

I find little difference between running the game on the monitors native 1920x1080, or stepping it down to 1600x900.
At the lower step it is easier to see contacts over the ground.
For the this test mission it made no difference. I can pretty much see 14-16 contacts, depending on when the mission is paused exactly.

DSR at 2x,,,, lucky if I see 5 or 6.

[hnbdgr]

My monitors are calibrated with a Spyder4ELite.

I find little difference between running the game on the monitors native 1920x1080, or stepping it down to 1600x900.
At the lower step it is easier to see contacts over the ground.
For the this test mission it made no difference. I can pretty much see 14-16 contacts, depending on when the mission is paused exactly.

DSR at 2x,,,, lucky if I see 5 or 6.

Hey I use, SPyder4Elite :) the main purpose of that tool (at least for me) is to give your monitor the a) correct brightness b) correct white point. You can make some adjustments in the software but I use sweetfx to change graphics "on top" of spyder4 calibration. Either way it's a good way to see true colors. The suggested brightness is always very low for me(120cdm?). I leave it around 200cdm

[Vlerkies]

Yeah brightness comes out a bit low for gaming.
I use the spyder to calibrate my monitors for photography editing and also to get them to match.

[Silver]

I find little difference between running the game on the monitors native 1920x1080, or stepping it down to 1600x900.
At the lower step it is easier to see contacts over the ground.

it used to make a significant difference in the earlier il2 series, because distant aircraft dots were made up of a fixed number of pixels. so the larger the pixels would be on your screen (which is dependent on the size and resolution of your monitor), the easier it would be to see the distant aircraft dot.

for ex: a 30' monitor running at 2560 x 1600, you have significant problems spotting the distant aircraft dot (it is nearly invisible)

13728
but if you set that same monitor at 1280 x 800, it is now much easier to spot the distant aircraft dot below you over the snow covered terrain background

13729

this problem was reduced by oleg and luthier in CoD because the issue/problem was repeatedly raised in previous yrs, and it is now much less of a problem (because rather then distant aircraft dots being a fixed 4 pixel size, after the smallest lod model the small aircraft dots mow still keeps reducing in size until it becomes one pixel afaik, and then stays at that size untill it disappears completely (at a predetermined distance, which can be edited in the icons.rcu file).

for those who dont care about the quality and realism of ingame visuals, you could now still artificially increase dot and lod model visibility in CoD by altering your resolution and video settings (but it would look rather ugly).

i am simply cautioning about not trying to distort our normal calibrated video settings to try and artificially improve dot/lod model visibility, but instead first determine how realistically CoD can reproduce what a real ww2 fighter pilot would/could see from his cockpit (and there are some unresolved issues in CoD)

[A.S]

LOD instances and switch ranges:

Coming from others sims and being for 13 years in this bussiness, it appears to me (correct me if i am wrong, although i think i am hitting the nail here), that the
LOD instances and the ranges at which the LODs are switched to the next lower lever or higher are not very wise made in CloD.

At close ranges one has the 3D model with the highest details ( polygons if you will ).. but the further out an object is, the lower is the LOD detail (LOD0, LOD1, LOD2, LOD3, LOD4, LOD5 etc).
This ensures, that far away objectives are rendered in less detail, hence saving alot of FPS, BUT, if the ranges (distances) are not "smart" where it switches from LOD1 to LOD2 and so on,
the visibility of distanced aircafts can be very "obscured" against the background. This challange also other sims faced, but i can assure you, that by making this right (experiment with it if it is possible of course) one can achieve great visibility results PLUS FPS savings. I personally worked in this field, but i am not an expert on the data and file structre of CloD, hence no more detailed help from my side unfortunatly (unless i find the muse to rip things apart and look under the hood).

In FalconBMS i.e we have something called "smart scalling". What it does, is that is re-scales objectives to are more natural size on distance without increasing their size out of proportion.
This allows great visibility on 3D objects and finally makes the "hubble telescope zoom FOV" thingy plus the "in real pilots see better excuse" absolete.

cheers.... just sharing thoughts to improve vital parts :)

[TWC_SLAG]

My Bitdefender software said there was malware in the zip file. I know some of these security packs are sometimes overly protective. Has anyone downloaded this zip file and then had a problem with malware?

If not, I want to try it.

Thanks,

badfinger


Hi fellow pilots,

Did you ever wonder if you really can see contacts in TFCliffs worse than other pilots? Here is a small single player mission that might help you to find out.
Of course, besides from supporting with monitor calibration (http://bilder.hifi-forum.de/max/599076/gray-values-1920-1080_247121.jpg) (brightness, contrast, gamma) the mission also helps to quickly check if/how SweetFX and other software-based adjustments influence the contact visibility.

Instructions:
1. Download this zip-archive (http://jagdgeschwader4.de/media/kunena/attachments/329/contact-spotting.zip),
2. extract the three files to your missions-directory in "...\Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\missions\Single",
3. start up TFCliffs and choose in "Single Player/Single Mission" the mission "Contact Spotting".
4. Directly after you have spawned in the plane (109) pause the game (default: "p") and
5. choose the pre-defined 30° zoom-view (default: "Delete").
6. Now count the contacts that you somehow can see in the area left to your plane's gunsight - as tiny and bright the pixel may be.

In total there are up to 16 contacts (Spitfires) that are positioned in 1 km steps from a distance of 1 km to 16 km.

On my screen I can see 14 of the 16 contacts somehow (see attached image):
http://jagdgeschwader4.de/media/kunena/attachments/329/contact-spotting-dui_2014-11-12.png

In a real flight situation I probably "only" would have some realistic chance to see 11 contacts (meaning contacts up to a distance of 11 km against this bright-blue sky).

So, someone more/less? :D

[Kai-61]

Badfinger, I recently downloaded and opened the mission file with no bad effect--computer is still fine. I am using Microsoft Security Essentials and scanned with any positive results.

But to the topic at hand.

I have tested this a bit and find that any sort of AA reduces the ability to see the most distant contacts. I tested DSR (nVidia) in that past, was pleased, but returned to test it more thoroughly. Its big advantage for me is that it greatly reduces all shimmering artifacts and it has a smoothing feature which applies AA more effectively than anything else I've seen. Unfortunately, it renders the most distant contacts nearly invisible and adds a twinkling effect to the more distant contacts.

My best results are simply running at 1080 with no AA.

[ATAG_Lewis]

I can't remember this thread..I must have been away or something...missed the radar...but what a great thread and OP by DUI....Excellent DUI..~S~

[TWC_Pilotlight]

I have a 50 inch 1080p tv set at 1360x768 res. I can't see any of the planes.

:confused!::confused!::confused!::confused!::confu sed!:

[ATAG_((dB))]

Are you in the air when you spawn in pilotlight ?

[Shamrock]

I think people need to be aware that if that they ought to use the same rcu file as the server uses if they want to check this appropriately. Otherwise if you're checking with default or customized settings you will see not enough dots or all of them which might be unrealistic. Does someone have the values for the server RCU?

EDIT: not URL, RCU. words hard they are

What/where is the RCU file ? and what do you modify it to ?

[Hot_Pursuit]

Shamrock, have a look at the second post in this link http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13882&p=151964#post151964

[EAF51_Jimmi]

i have a 1080p ips 27' monitor
in the test i can see 12 contacts...

i have a gtx970 and i'm thinking to go g-sync and get a 2k monitor
looking at this right now...
144hz g-syinc 2k ips monitor
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-XB270HU-bprz-27-inch-Widescreen/dp/B00UPVXDA8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449709068&sr=8-1&keywords=Acer+XB270HU

what i'm wondering...
will i be able to spot smaller dots with a higher resolution monitor???
any experience/suggestion in this regard???

[fly4ever]

Just a quick post indicating the difference of bigger monitors/screens vs smaller ones:

1: GTX960 with 40 inch tv monitor= 5 clearly visible planes plus 9 very clearly visible dots.Inspecting a bit closer another 2 dots visible.
2: GTX960 with 23 inch pc monitor= 5 clearly visible planes only.1 dot when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (10) not visible in any case.
3: GTX980 with 24 Inch pc monitor= 5clearly visible planes plus 2-3 dots when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (8) not visible in any case.

The above experiment conducted with NVIDIA DSR engaged and ClOD resolution setting @2880x1620 in all 3 occasions.
Settings in NVIDIA control panel similar in each case.

It seems that the big difference,especially in very high resolution settings (over 1920x1080) comes with bigger screens,not absolutely with stronger GPU's.Best combination would definitely be a powerful GPU (to nicely handle ultra high resolution settings and everything associated) with a big monitor (to aid in pixel aka contact spotting).

Reducing ClOD resolution settings back to its native 1920x1080, both GTX960 and GTX980 GPU's (case #2 & 3 from above) showed 5 clearly visible planes plus 5 clearly visible dots and another 2-3 more distant contacts when examined more closely and carefully.Reverting back to 2880x1620 and almost all contacts except the 5 closer planes were gone once more.The guy with the bigger screen maintained the same visual contacts no matter what his resolution setting was.

Cheers,
Nick.

[EAF51_Jimmi]

Just a quick post indicating the difference of bigger monitors/screens vs smaller ones:

1: GTX960 with 40 inch tv monitor= 5 clearly visible planes plus 9 very clearly visible dots.Inspecting a bit closer another 2 dots visible.
2: GTX960 with 23 inch pc monitor= 5 clearly visible planes only.1 dot when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (10) not visible in any case.
3: GTX980 with 24 Inch pc monitor= 5clearly visible planes plus 2-3 dots when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (8) not visible in any case.

The above experiment conducted with NVIDIA DSR engaged and ClOD resolution setting @2880x1620 in all 3 occasions.
Settings in NVIDIA control panel similar in each case.

It seems that the big difference,especially in very high resolution settings (over 1920x1080) comes with bigger screens,not absolutely with stronger GPU's.Best combination would definitely be a powerful GPU (to nicely handle ultra high resolution settings and everything associated) with a big monitor (to aid in pixel aka contact spotting).

Reducing ClOD resolution settings back to its native 1920x1080, both GTX960 and GTX980 GPU's (case #2 & 3 from above) showed 5 clearly visible planes plus 5 clearly visible dots and another 2-3 more distant contacts when examined more closely and carefully.Reverting back to 2880x1620 and almost all contacts except the 5 closer planes were gone once more.The guy with the bigger screen maintained the same visual contacts no matter what his resolution setting was.

Cheers,
Nick.

Ty 4 the update!
Cool info!!

[ATAG_Lewis]

I tried this yesterday and couldn't see a bean....It took me an hour to figure out that my aircraft was airborne and should have been on the airstrip...Only when I saw the icons of the Spits below me did I figure so started the mission again and did this..

dB had the same issue...

Before starting the mission go into 'Custom'..then 'Realism Options'....and check All the 'Visual aides' and check 'Mission Take-Off and Landing'...

DUI.....Can you please add this to your initial post...I think its important to save them a lot of time if their mission is not setup like this when they spawn...

I'll PM you on this too....

[DUI]

Thanks Lewis! This helpful information is added to the original post now! :salute:

[ATAG_Lewis]

Thanks DUI...~S~

[T_O_A_D]

This is a very useful thread. I could see 12 of them, and now 14, by bumping the sharping up a bit, anything over 80% starts looking bad elsewhere in the game though not sure if I can do any better with 1080p 27" monitor and GTX 660 Ti

I'd hazard a guess though a 40" 4K monitor rolled back to 1080 for the game might help, if not possibly the smaller pixels of the 4K screen might make the gauges and stuff smother looking.

One of these days I'm going to drag the case ot the 55" 4k TV to each other and look.


Thanks for posting.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Okey dokey...

Having messed about with A TV and reverted back to my monitor i thought I'd share this in regard to (some if not all?!) Asus screens.

Asus have a setting in the screen settings called "vividpixel"
I guess it's sharpness.... but Asus decided to make it sharpness(tm) and give is a stupid name.

Anyway...

I'm now running (after much messing about) with completely standard settings in the standard profile.

If I set vividpixel to 100% the contacts on the contact spotting mission are sharper. I don't think massively.... but.... they are definately a bit sharper.

If I come out of game and open up say Excel it looks horrid with a sort of faint line around each box... set vivid pixel to 0 and it looks nice again.

The standard setting is 25 by the way.

0% looks good for text baseed applications

100% seems to give the plane contacts that extra little "POP"

Can't see a way to switch easliy beteen these two settings.... but figured I' share none the less.

:salute:

[MightyBouff]

I've been struggling with spotting so thought I'd do this test. Can see 11 contacts so clearly its me, just need to practice!

[Flanker35M]

S!

Ran the test mission on my rig with a 32" Samsung 2K screen. Screen has been calibrated. Game settings almost maxed out, SMAA at Ultra/color, SSAO on. GPU settings application controlled except sharpening at 30%. Saw 16 of 16 contacts. What settings do you recommend to be used for an AMD card for both in game and CP? Thanks in advance :)

EDIT: Saw all the contacts with ease after typed the console command. No need to squint or adjust anything. Is this used on ATAG server too?

[BlacKnight]

S!

Ran the test mission on my rig with a 32" Samsung 2K screen. Screen has been calibrated. Game settings almost maxed out, SMAA at Ultra/color, SSAO on. GPU settings application controlled except sharpening at 30%. Saw 16 of 16 contacts. What settings do you recommend to be used for an AMD card for both in game and CP? Thanks in advance :)

EDIT: Saw all the contacts with ease after typed the console command. No need to squint or adjust anything. Is this used on ATAG server too?

I fly on a Samsung 40in 4096X2160- in conf.ini make sure MESHShowLoad=1, are you playing online or offline? second is then setting up your MP odt for offline and the Dedicated server you choose to fly on.

Come onto the TWC Dogfight PvP server in TAB 4 Mission menu choose Fighter command and then send a group of 4 number 1, fly towards Calais. Wait a minute or 2 so they can get through the clouds into the channel.

You can watch my videos on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHXxg3VZ0M&t=98s

I do not ZOOM in at all!