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PerFolmer
Jan-06-2013, 13:17
Hello all!
You've been splendid so far in answering my questions on aircraft and I thank you all!
I've been trying to figure out how popular the different hurricane models featured in this simulator were. (this is all concerning the propeller pitch models, but feel free to go on tangents.)
Which setup were mostly used during the expeditionary battle of france when using the hurricane, for example, DH 5-20 or the ROTOL?
Also, I'm not so sure concerning the engines, are the hurricanes using the same powerplant in the two-setting pitch model as in the rotol one?

Thanks

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-06-2013, 13:35
Hi PerFolmer,

I'd say it'd be safe to say that the Battle of France Hurricanes were the 2-speed variety. Unfortunately, Cliffs of Dover has hobbled them with 87 octane fuel, severely hampering their combat effectiveness against opposing fighters. Hopefully future modifications to Clod will address this.

The Merlin engines were the same for both the MK1 DH5-20 2-speed and the MK1 Rotol CSP-equipped Hurricanes.

Interestingly, the pilots who flew the real Spitfire MK1 2-speed aircraft discovered that careful manipulation of the pitch control "bicycle pump" lever near its midpoint enabled the pilot to change the propeller's pitch between its Fine and Coarse pitch settings. Not to be confused with a true Constant Speed Propeller capability, this at least enabled the Spit pilots to extract much better performance from their aircraft in various flight situations (similar to car having only High and Low gear vs a 6-speed gearbox). The pilot had to monitor his revs carefully when changing engine settings or maneuvring and adjust accordingly. Although adding to the in-cockpit workload significantly, most pilots got very proficient doing this by ear alone.

I don't know if this "feature" carried over to the 2-speed Hurricanes in real life, but this is not modelled in Cliffs of Dover, anyway.

PerFolmer
Jan-06-2013, 13:41
This is what I'm talking about!

Yeah, I've heard about that pitch manipulation, typical pilots to tweak and fiddle about, haha!
Thanks for the quick answer!


Hi PerFolmer,

I'd say it'd be safe to say that the Battle of France Hurricanes were the 2-speed variety. Unfortunately, Cliffs of Dover has hobbled them with 87 octane fuel, severely hampering their combat effectiveness against opposing fighters. Hopefully future modifications to Clod will address this.

The Merlin engines were the same for both the MK1 DH5-20 2-speed and the MK1 Rotol CSP-equipped Hurricanes.

Interestingly, the pilots who flew the real Spitfire MK1 2-speed aircraft discovered that careful manipulation of the pitch control "bicycle pump" lever near its midpoint enabled the pilot to change the propeller's pitch between its Fine and Coarse pitch settings. Not to be confused with a true Constant Speed Propeller capability, this at least enabled the Spit pilots to extract much better performance from their aircraft in various flight situations (similar to car having only High and Low gear vs a 6-speed gearbox). The pilot had to monitor his revs carefully when changing engine settings or maneuvring and adjust accordingly. Although adding to the in-cockpit workload significantly, most pilots got very proficient doing this by ear alone.

I don't know if this "feature" carried over to the 2-speed Hurricanes in real life, but this is not modelled in Cliffs of Dover, anyway.

Moggy
Jan-07-2013, 10:18
Hello all, first post as well. Right here we go...

There were 2 Merlin engines used in the Hurricane during the Battle of France, the Merlin II and III. The main difference between the 2 engines is that the Merlin II could only be used with a 2 blade fixed pitch propeller and the Merlin III used the DH 5-20 and Rotol propellers.

As to what was used when, well 1 of my favourite pictures from the Battle of France just about sums it up beautifully.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Hurricanes_87_Sqn_RAF_at_Lille-Seclin_1939-40.jpg

This is 87 squadron taken at the airbase at Lille-Seclin during a practice scramble exercise. Now at first glance nothing is out of the ordinary, just a line of Hurricanes waiting for their pilots. If you take a closer look some of Hurricanes have a 2 blade fixed pitch prop, others have a 3 blade prop. Closer still, you'll notice that some of the Hurricanes have armoured windscreens and others don't. Finally, you'll see that some of the Hurricanes still have fabric covered wings and others have the metal wings.

I think this picture really sums up the RAF and Fighter Command really well during 1939-40.

PerFolmer
Jan-07-2013, 17:04
Moggy, glad you responded.
Beautiful information. Thanks!



Hello all, first post as well. Right here we go...

There were 2 Merlin engines used in the Hurricane during the Battle of France, the Merlin II and III. The main difference between the 2 engines is that the Merlin II could only be used with a 2 blade fixed pitch propeller and the Merlin III used the DH 5-20 and Rotol propellers.

As to what was used when, well 1 of my favourite pictures from the Battle of France just about sums it up beautifully.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Hurricanes_87_Sqn_RAF_at_Lille-Seclin_1939-40.jpg

This is 87 squadron taken at the airbase at Lille-Seclin during a practice scramble exercise. Now at first glance nothing is out of the ordinary, just a line of Hurricanes waiting for their pilots. If you take a closer look some of Hurricanes have a 2 blade fixed pitch prop, others have a 3 blade prop. Closer still, you'll notice that some of the Hurricanes have armoured windscreens and others don't. Finally, you'll see that some of the Hurricanes still have fabric covered wings and others have the metal wings.

I think this picture really sums up the RAF and Fighter Command really well during 1939-40.

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-07-2013, 18:37
+1 :thumbsup:

Welcome to the forum, Moggy! Helluva first post -- with a fascinating BOF pic to boot. Thanks for the info!

Snapper

Moggy
Jan-09-2013, 06:08
Thanks for the warm welcome. As you can probably tell, the Hurricane is a bit of a passion of mine. I live close to the old Hawker's factory so I'm naturally a bit biased towards anything built by Hawker or Sopwith.

PerFolmer
Jan-09-2013, 11:53
Thanks for the warm welcome. As you can probably tell, the Hurricane is a bit of a passion of mine. I live close to the old Hawker's factory so I'm naturally a bit biased towards anything built by Hawker or Sopwith.

Oh my, that's cool.
I've been thinking about the prop. pitch range as well. I think the two-staged de Havilland one has a range from 5-20 degrees and the Rotol version a 35 degree range but I have no idea where
the fine pitch is set on the Rotol, is it at 5 degrees as the two-staged de Havilland? That is if I'm right at all about the two-staged one to begin with...

In the Rotol I've cruised at aprox. 230mph indicated (about 7.000ft or so) with what I believe was a +3,5 boost, I can't remember what kind of RPM I got but what I'm totally sure of is that I didn't fly with fully coarse. Far from it.
Maybe I really missed something out there since the DH coarse pitch works really well.

Thanks again to the replies. I can't explain enough how wonderful it is to be able to ask these things but I'm sure you feel the same way.