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Blitzen
Mar-05-2018, 11:58
can someone tell me if DCS is worth getting for a SP like me? I'm tempted to get it because of the Normandy add-on, but have no idea whether there are any SM's or campaigns available or what they might contain? If its really only flying planes , or driving tanks or walking through the countryside then what is available in the line of aircraft , vehicles & weapon sets..or is there anything? It is difficulty to tell in the promotional vids one can access in YouTube( makes me wonder if there are vids of actually game play?), so I need some description of game play & advice. I currently play a lot of box with Oculus Rift & of course CloD, but obviously need some sound advice whether to invest in DCS.:thumbsup:

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-05-2018, 12:05
I currently play a lot of box with Oculus Rift & of course CloD, but obviously need some sound advice whether to invest in DCS.:thumbsup:

I wish I could say. I don't use OR and have not been on DCS in quite some time...to me WWII for DCS hasn't come through as promised.

BOO
Mar-05-2018, 13:44
For WW2 not at this time IMHO- there is more excitement and variety to be had in BOS and CLOD and the damage model is rubbish. Bombs also don't bounce and I don't think you can set fuse delays. So far, I think you have a B17 to chase and shoot. No German medium stuff but an AI 88 is planned along with some allied AI mediums.. Of course you could rustle up a few 190s and a 109 for dogfights (yawn). There are some nicely detailed ground units to pound with your sticky bombs though.

Normandy itself does need a beefy PC to run it well. More so than the NTTR (Vegas) or the Caucuses.


The new 2.5 Open beta is also causing some scripting issues with missions that wont be settled until the stable version is out and the makers have a solid platform to re-work with. How many users update their mission remains to be seen. Whilst there are some user made missions of varying quality (and some I hear are very high quality) there are only two paid campaigns (one for the spit, one for the P51D) so not a mahusive choice at the moment. That said, the mission builder and editor is very good and pretty bug free so there is nothing to stop you building your own. You also find most of the WW2 modules are bugged to one degree or another and the spit, despite being out nearly 2 years, is STILL classed as early access!!!

If you just wanna learn an aircraft its fine for that (provided a bug doesn't get you) but learning is.........

.....FOR JETS!!!! :)

- if you really want to spend time really earning your missions then I really really REALLY cannot praise the A10C highly enough. This thing makes you work for everything. I'm loving every minute of it. And just when you think you've got, go up against something red and spikey and see how much you really know! lots of missions (although some will act oddly until 2.5 settles in) and some great paid training and war play campaigns.

Others love their migs, F5Es, Hueys and Mil-8s for the same reason.

1lokos
Mar-05-2018, 14:04
Let's say want play with Spitfire IXe (Beta ~1 year) - $ 50

Normandy 1944 + WWII assets - $ 60 (that looks a post war Normandy with modern look hangars and no damage around like post D-Day Normandy).

Operation Epson Campaign - $10

$ 120 looks "too much for so few". :D

PhoenixCNE
Mar-05-2018, 17:15
Just to echo what others have said, don't hop into DCS for the ww2 stuff just yet but definitely do it for the jets (and the VR support is pretty dang good too from what I hear from a close friend) They really turn out to be much more fun than one would think.

SharkBait
Mar-06-2018, 15:24
Blitzen,

I shared some of my thoughts on DCS WWII in the thread below. I've been playing for about a month now.

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28377&p=307285#post307285

While I don't disagree with the gents above, I personally decided to send ED a hopeful vote of confidence and purchased the P-51 on sale and then the Normandy map & assets. My personal hope is to encourage flight simulator developers. Also, perhaps a healthy measure of competition among development shops (e.g., ED vs. 1C) can't hurt as it will keep them honest and incentivize them to bring their best work to the market! I really hope that DCS won't fall too far behind once Battle of Bodenplatte hits.

Others may disagree, but these were my reasons for shelling out the cash.

Also, my rig (see my signature) runs the game fine on medium-high settings, in case that's a helpful data point for you.

LuseKofte
Mar-11-2018, 17:15
I bought it because of the offlinecampaigns, to this day I maybe flown half a hour online. I like choppers,and SU 25 and A 10 C these got good offline campaigns not dynamic , but good non the less

9./JG52_Meyer
Mar-12-2018, 06:17
I got DCS, bought all the jets all the ww2 planes the Nevada map the Normandy map didnt buy the Normandy add ons as that should have been included in map IMO. Then uninstalled it all as it just doesnt work for me and im not talking rig wise as it runs good on my system. It will stay in the ether i suppose untill its sorted to my tastes which it is not im afraid.
One positive thing though is that it freed up 200 plus gig on my SD when i kicked it into touch

Hals und Beinbruch

BOO
Mar-12-2018, 13:34
(he's still sore about his P47 being put on ice...there are just some things a man cannot forgive!)

farley
Mar-12-2018, 13:43
(he's still sore about his P47 being put on ice...there are just some things a man cannot forgive!)

Who can blame the man Boo?

Maybe if they substituted the P47 (although it's a plane I was looking forward to - Wonder how A2A was able to make one if no plans around....) with say a P38?

I'd forgive them then:D

A2A video pt 1 or 4:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7cTL6YhEyg

1lokos
Mar-12-2018, 15:05
Problem with DCS P-47 is the lack of original flight data for create FM in their standards - archives destroyed in 80's.

A2A P-47 is more a nice 3D that use MS "FM" without much compromise with real thing, or e.g. IL-2'46.

Probable the same approached will be followed in BoBp, given people "speed and firepower" most will be satisfied. :D

BOO
Mar-12-2018, 16:24
I don't understand why, in 2018 there isn't something clever that says "something weight this much and has these shapes and this much power so will do this if you do that in these conditions"

But clearly there isnt. That said not many of us have P47s in our garages and those who do have to fly em like your gran drives her Honda Jazz. So who the hell would know anyhow?

LuseKofte
Mar-25-2018, 19:19
My impression is that DCS community dwarf COD and BOS community put together. So there are reasons for liking it. Myself enjoy DCS much more than other sims in some ways. When it come to shooting stuff, not so much. But I have grown into the thrill of learning simulators in such degree that I consider buying X plane 11 also. It is not the money that prevent me, but time. I fully understand it do not meat the common WW2 CFS pilots preferences, but it is good in other ways

ATAG_Flare
Mar-25-2018, 19:48
My impression is that DCS community dwarf COD and BOS community put together. So there are reasons for liking it. Myself enjoy DCS much more than other sims in some ways. When it come to shooting stuff, not so much. But I have grown into the thrill of learning simulators in such degree that I consider buying X plane 11 also. It is not the money that prevent me, but time. I fully understand it do not meat the common WW2 CFS pilots preferences, but it is good in other ways

While the DCS community overall is much larger, I think the WWII DCS community is quite small, just for the fact that DCS WWII isn't really that great.

III./ZG76_Saipan
Mar-25-2018, 21:33
the only module i have for dcs is the huey. very fun to fly and great sounds, but the graphics for the maps is pretty lame.

Tumbler
Apr-07-2018, 10:29
Let's say want play with Spitfire IXe (Beta ~1 year) - $ 50

Normandy 1944 + WWII assets - $ 60 (that looks a post war Normandy with modern look hangars and no damage around like post D-Day Normandy).

Operation Epson Campaign - $10

$ 120 looks "too much for so few". :D
All modules 50% discount on steam. Some complex issues with steam and ED shop versions though

Baffin
Jul-05-2018, 08:52
All modules 50% discount on steam. Some complex issues with steam and ED shop versions though


I think it's still on sale. I just bought Normandy and assets along with the new Spitfire MKIX for $52 US. It's a limited time offer for the first month of the Spitfire release.

I haven't used it too much, but the Plane is nice. :flying2:

69th_Zeb
Jul-05-2018, 13:37
I bought the Huey addon yesterday ($25) and was very impressed.
I was a Huey mechanic for several years and wish I had something like this when I first started my career.

Like Saipan said the scenery is ok, but man the sounds are cool and the mechanical detail is pretty nice.

I don't mean to ruffle feathers, but given that a lot of games today are tied to large defense contractors, any active DOD might want to keep a level head on what they install or say. Looks a lot like phishing and intel gathering to me. Just sayin' (loose lips sink ships haha).

That said, as a civilian dude, this sim is pretty sweet!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKBDmuP7jI&feature=youtu.be

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-05-2018, 14:37
$ 120 looks "too much for so few". :D

:roflmao:

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-05-2018, 14:39
I bought the Huey addon yesterday ($25) and was very impressed.
I was a Huey mechanic for several years and wish I had something like this when I first started my career.

Like Saipan said the scenery is ok, but man the sounds are cool and the mechanical detail is pretty nice.

I don't mean to ruffle feathers, but given that a lot of games today are tied to large defense contractors, any active DOD might want to keep a level head on what they install or say. Looks a lot like phishing and intel gathering to me. Just sayin' (loose lips sink ships haha).

That said, as a civilian dude, this sim is pretty sweet!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKBDmuP7jI&feature=youtu.be

ooohhh....

I might check out some rotary stuff

The only thing i ever flew (so far) in real life was a helicopter. was blooming awesome. may have to make a propper twist throttle though first.

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-05-2018, 14:49
hmm... its £40 here.

think i will carry on with my moth for a bit!

69th_Zeb
Jul-05-2018, 15:08
Well bummers. I wonder if the timezone lag did you in. Maybe get a buddy to gift it to you from here and you can paypal back. :)

And about hardware spamming, man, I'm already started on a tangent (Cayuse Oh-6 grip).
35977

-Z

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-05-2018, 18:24
Haha!

Zeb... you are lightyears ahead of me in peripherals!

Love your work!

Karaya
Jul-06-2018, 02:45
$ 120 looks "too much for so few". :D

Too true

"Never in the field of flight simulation has so much been paid for so little." :D

On a more serious note: I don't see how DCS will become a serious WWII sim alternative any time soon. It's a great study sim when you're interested in a specific aircraft they feature but it is piss poor when it comes to simulating the scope of a (world) war. The sheer lack of bombers (not a single flyable one, just an AI B-17, no German bombers at all yet) means you are condemned to a pure dogfight 24/7 all day every day kind of experience and that gets stale very quickly.

Fortunately I only paid like 70$ back in the Kickstarter days and got pretty much everything WWII related that way including the map and asset pack. At this point I would strongly advise against putting serious money into the WWII modules in DCS. If you absolutely have to get your hands on a specific warbird then go for it during a sale but dont expect it to keep you entertained for long.

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-06-2018, 03:39
Its an odd one for sure the DCS setup.

I still want to pick up a chopper at some point.

But simply as a stand alone study piece.

Assuming i ever have time!

BOO
Jul-06-2018, 09:28
Its an odd one for sure the DCS setup.

I still want to pick up a chopper at some point.

But simply as a stand alone study piece.

Assuming i ever have time!

I usually "land" (its a broad term) my Huey at a faster approach speed than the spitfire - its the only way I can guarantee it wont drop out of the sky.

Where it stops is a different matter.

69th_Zeb
Jul-07-2018, 02:07
Highseas I added you as a friend so I could gift it before timezone change, but alas, the time went past. And yeah, I've burned 12 hours on it in the last two days. Mostly trying interesting stuff in the mission editor. I saw this cool trigger that said, "explode" when you killed a single infantry dude. Let's just say I had to scale the "boom" value back a little when my chopper disappeared from sight.

Boo, I was really surprised by the effects of vortex ring state (VRS). I never really noticed it when I tried the real thing, but I think it's because I had an instructor that put me in the right groove (to make it easier than it appeared). We also ran the twin pack Pratt PT6T-3, 1800 SHP vs 900-1100 SHP. Probably had more to do with having all that extra power. Just had to watch the torque and make sure we didn't noodle the driveshafts. haha

Now I wish I had a bunch more vacation time to make peripherals and krap. hehe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbqKVxdmhrw&feature=youtu.be

IIJG27Rich
Jul-24-2018, 20:49
It has things that I like very much, lots of aircraft management nice graphics and good flight models. What I don't care for is the lack of WWII aircraft, maps and the price you have to pay for what is available. I'll probably wind up spending around $130 Canadian if I cave for a K4 and the Normandy map plus the assets. It's a good thing I'm a huge 109 fan boy and never fly allied otherwise a person could spend tons of money. What Karaya said up above sounds pretty good to me also

Karaya
Jul-25-2018, 03:16
Another thing that's keeping me from flying DCS some more is the fact that the current version seems to take forever to load online.

I bought myself a brand new PC at the start of the year. My old rig did not have an SSD and even so loaded the 1.5 Beta reasonably fast. Now with my new PC and a 1TB M.2 SSD on which I have the OS and all games installed DCS 2.5 takes somewhere between 5-10min (!) from connecting to being able to choose an aircraft and spawning in. The first couple minutes are spent waiting for the game to load in and then it's some more minutes time until the game becomes responsive again to the point where I can actually use the interface. It's become a chore pure and simply, and this is not even taking into account general instability, the abysmal netcode, etc.

:doh:

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-25-2018, 03:31
Yeah.

For me it fills the helicopter hole. And exceptionally well.

I cant see it becoming anything more for me. (Which is fine). And the WWII arena seems to be on a hiding to nothing.

We will see.

Right now its my single player Huey-go-round. Can't see it becoming much more (for me). But actually I dont need it to.

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-25-2018, 03:35
Highseas I added you as a friend so I could gift it before timezone change,

Haha... saw tgat last night!.. and accepted yiur friendliness. Haha!

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-28-2018, 11:51
Highseas I added you as a friend so I could gift it before timezone change, but alas, the time went past. And yeah, I've burned 12 hours on it in the last two days. Mostly trying interesting stuff in the mission editor. I saw this cool trigger that said, "explode" when you killed a single infantry dude. Let's just say I had to scale the "boom" value back a little when my chopper disappeared from sight.

Boo, I was really surprised by the effects of vortex ring state (VRS). I never really noticed it when I tried the real thing, but I think it's because I had an instructor that put me in the right groove (to make it easier than it appeared). We also ran the twin pack Pratt PT6T-3, 1800 SHP vs 900-1100 SHP. Probably had more to do with having all that extra power. Just had to watch the torque and make sure we didn't noodle the driveshafts. haha

Now I wish I had a bunch more vacation time to make peripherals and krap. hehe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbqKVxdmhrw&feature=youtu.be

Nice !

AKA_Recon
Aug-11-2018, 13:09
I've been flying the Spitfire on Burning Skies - it is absolutely amazing!

There is plenty of content for single player as well - I just downloaded several missions and they are very well done.

DCS WW2 is really good, it's now just a matter of pilots coming onboard, as I'm sure many are initially intimidated. I would say it doesn't take long to get familiar with the aircraft, reminds me actually of my early days learning the CloD Spitfire startup procedure.

The Spitfire in DCS is very clean and well done, and it flies very well. The Normany map is still WIP, but it's made great strides and they continue to add things to the WW2 Asset pack.

Additionally there are active members in the community creating online wars that we used to have in CloD such as Storm of War. I just recently flew some missions escorting bombers across the channel.

I believe the original question was on single player. There is a nice online search filter tool here.

ie. single missions:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?set_filter=Y&arrFilter_pf%5Bfiletype%5D=1&arrFilter_pf%5Bgameversion%5D=&arrFilter_pf%5Bfilelang%5D=&arrFilter_pf%5Baircraft%5D=430&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&CREATED_BY=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC&set_filter=Filter

There are campaigns available that are of high quality - maps, detailed briefings, etc..
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/campaigns/index.php?SHOWALL_1=1 .

ie P-51D Charnwood Campaign by B&W Campaigns and Spitfire LF Mk. IX Operation Epsom Campaign by B&W Campaigns, etc...

DCS WW2 reminds me of CloD - it's detailed, high quality and a step above some of the more basic combat flight sims such as BoX.

All of this is just my opinion- but I've been amazed so far, and quite honestly, I think if more people tried it they would see what I'm talking about.

Take a peak at this ,if this doesn't inspire you I don't know what will - I'm not sure what some others in this thread are dissing it for because it's clearly mouth dropping (and it's supports VR which is AMAZING).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhQFKdF1tvs

BOO
Aug-13-2018, 04:56
its all down to a personal take I guess. What may not bother one person. For instance 4 or 5 B17s falling to the guns of a single 109 in a single pass) bugz the hell out of me whilst the fully oprational cockpits are less important to me in a warbird but may be just the thing for someone else.

I think the video does serve a prospective buyer in making a choice as it shows a lot of the good and the bad. If it enthralls you, go for it. If it doesnt,dont ( perhaps check out any vids of the Epsom campaign as well to get a feel for the GA element - just don't rely on the ED ones - those are understandably over polished promotional material which do not really reflect the actual in game experience IMHO)

9./JG52 Kettarian_Fox
Aug-14-2018, 17:09
I will chip in for Huey as well. Glad you're loving it, Zeb!
Pretty much the only module I fly nowadays, like once every month I fire it up and just mess with it going A to B or trying to land on an oil platform or smth. And whenever I do it is sheer joy! Wish I had more free time now, even beloved CLoD is limited to 1-2 sorties a week... It helps that Huey is dead simple - 17 actions total if you wanna get it going. Mi 8 somewhat scared me away with its switches, I have to be honest. Initially Huey was one of the main reasons I was going for a between the legs long stick setup I have now - vanilla Warthog sticktion and forces were a pain in the arse when controlling a helicopter, and boy was it worth it.

In short - love DCS for helicopters. Sure it has a lot more to offer but sadly I don't have the time now

LuseKofte
Aug-25-2018, 14:35
The Huey is cute and so on, but the Mighty 8 take out a town

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45gua8ap6So

BOO
Aug-26-2018, 11:21
The Huey is cute and so on, but the Mighty 8 take out a town

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45gua8ap6So

See you were deploying Ghost Squad there - Elite soldiers who can walk though walls (and helicopters it appears). The vid sums up DCS helos quite nicely. A lot of nice stuff occasionally spoiled by an reasonable chance that something that was working wont after an update, some seriously underwhelming graphic effects (dust effect in cockpit, zero rotor downwash on the ground other than the afore mentioned crap dust effect,trees in load bay etc), under-finished rear crew positions (the Huey is also pretty poor if you look anywhere but outside) and bizarre AI animations (cant help but hum the bionic man theme when I see those soldiers move)

On balance the good still wins by a long "chalk" (geddit?) though especially when you got heat on board :-)

ATAG_Highseas
Aug-26-2018, 15:46
In short - love DCS for helicopters. Sure it has a lot more to offer but sadly I don't have the time now

pretty much where i am at.

Its brilliantly filling that heli-hole

love it !

69th_Zeb
Aug-26-2018, 17:46
Its brilliantly filling that heli-hole

love it !

I used to spend hours burrowed in the hel* hole, replacing actuators, flight control shtuff, and cleaning that sticky 5606 off of everything...including myself. I'm not sure if I could still fit in there.
roflmao

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36593&d=1535319813

LuseKofte
Aug-27-2018, 14:29
See you were deploying Ghost Squad there - Elite soldiers who can walk though walls (and helicopters it appears). The vid sums up DCS helos quite nicely. A lot of nice stuff occasionally spoiled by an reasonable chance that something that was working wont after an update, some seriously underwhelming graphic effects (dust effect in cockpit, zero rotor downwash on the ground other than the afore mentioned crap dust effect,trees in load bay etc), under-finished rear crew positions (the Huey is also pretty poor if you look anywhere but outside) and bizarre AI animations (cant help but hum the bionic man theme when I see those soldiers move)


Well before it was even worse, flying campaign you need to deploy troops and when they ran into the chopper they wrecked it. You got seriously damaged for each one doing it, so you needed to remember where they was running towards and put the chopper on the other side. Because they tipped the chopper over if they ran into it.

I tend to play with the cards given to me. I am very much so in DCS. Because there is no simulator close to simulate helicopter physics the way DCS does, and I am sure it is not realistic. I flown Helis in forward flight only, I never been allowed to go on hoover . But I find the 409 and 209 pretty much more stable in flight than the huey in game, The R 64 easier than the R 22 in game. But that is in careful maneuvering at altitude.
So my patience for all other things that do not work in DCS is huge :)

BOO
Aug-27-2018, 16:48
All the Huey talk made me dig it out again this extended weekend. I finally got over just mucking about in the free flight and set to learning it.

One of the hardest things I found (a thing with DCS and its constant evolution) is finding relevant training material. The missions that ship with the module are basic in the extreme and, when it comes to the more advanced stuff it seems Belsimtek have "hardcored" quite a lot of the featured in the older tutorials out of the module (cargo cam replaced with a horrible in cockpit view, no nice auto pilot box just an ugly kneeboard etc). Other functions have also been added too. So its a steep and sometimes confusing learning curve even in a "simple" old box like the Huey.

I found a few working user missions but again some assume a half decent knowledge of DCS in order to get them working - more research. But that's part of the fun I think (wasn't thinking that when I wiped all my controls with a mod but hey ho).Thankfully an active community also provided the mods to put back some of the "softie" features too.

But im happy to have had the time - learning the navs and coms is rewarding (once I discovered that you need to bind a Radio button rather than simply opening the coms menu) and the more I play the more I find myself being astonished at just how much finesse ive gained in manoeuvring it in just 2 days.. Sadly some of the fun was lost due to a dodgy F7 key so I lost some important coms functions and I fell off the USS Carl Vinson more times than I landed on it (which is currently 0 BTW) but still....fun.

Ive had the module for over 2 years and have never done anything more than the odd clumsy quick mission free flight. So finding a clever Vietnam themed multi-mission "Reflected's Huey Playground", strappin on some heat, altering the day to dusk and tuning into CCR and Hendrix on the in game VHF radio whilst snippets of original Vietnam radio chatter triggered here and there was genuinely immersive. And whilst I blasted and shot my way over the countryside with high amusement even transiting at low level with an almost sentient AI wingy was grin inducing. Love to tell you more but,... you weren't there maan - YOU WEREN'T THERE!!

The only downside to the Huey seems to be some power issues - Im getting the impression that the huey wasnt overly powerful but wasnt quite as hamstrung as belsimtek have made it (more hardcore shenanigans?) -certainly it looks like itll take more skill than i have at present to lift slung cargo - even in a lightly loaded huey at 25 degree C (or is it F?) amibent temp i found only a couple of minutes of hovering melted the exhaust so hook ups need to be quick. Talking a heavy gunship out though is a fun managment experience as you work the transitions and keep the speed to save cooking the engine. Having the dudes you pick up actually appear in the back would be nice too as would not having them play ring a roses once youve mopped up the enemy and landed to save their bottoms.

THe Huey was the first module i bought for DCS and i hated it. Now, with some time and effort invested i cant get enough of it.

69th_Zeb
Aug-27-2018, 21:23
Yeh they might have it running a little hot, but it's an older model too.

Last week I watched a Huey flying bambi bucket (full) in a tall hover and heard no blade slap whatsoever. And it was 90F outside too with a lot of smoke in the air.

Pratt started growing turbine blades from a single crystal that could supposedly take more heat (failures instead), but they're always trying to stretch the heat envelope.
A motion sim with VR would probably go a long way to make it "easier" to fly as well, as all the non-visual cues are absent.

BOO
Aug-28-2018, 08:41
Yeh they might have it running a little hot, but it's an older model too.

Last week I watched a Huey flying bambi bucket (full) in a tall hover and heard no blade slap whatsoever. And it was 90F outside too with a lot of smoke in the air.

Pratt started growing turbine blades from a single crystal that could supposedly take more heat (failures instead), but they're always trying to stretch the heat envelope.
A motion sim with VR would probably go a long way to make it "easier" to fly as well, as all the non-visual cues are absent.

I cant get my head around the commercial logic of "Hey lets make what is hard almost impossible for a dude sat in front of his TV" that BST seem to have taken dropping the load camera. Those that didn't want it simply didn't have to use it. Thankfully someone kept an old lua file ;-)

LuseKofte
Aug-28-2018, 15:05
The only thing keeping me from COD is priority, and COD and DCS are similar in this way, learning prosess and a feeling of getting better , BOX series got a learning courve, but it ends at the top very fast, the only ongoing courve there is really how to improve tactics, and that is more relevant for those flying fighters. And I do not like them.
So for now I spend my time in DCS