Radio Navigation

[ATAG_Noofy]

Can anyone enlighten me as to how (if?) radio navigation aids work in CLOD?
Some maps have radio frequencies implemented.
How do we make use of that?
Are these just Lorentz landing aids, or can they be used as long range beacons (gonio, ADF, etc.)?
Which aircraft are equipped to use them?

[ATAG_Oskar]

Beacons - Non-Directional Beacons and Long Range Beacons

Only the He-111, Ju-88 and BR20 have gear to use these. The Bf-110 carries the gear but you can't access it because it is in the observer's position. The mission builder must set the beacon to a specific frequency, 200 - 600 khz. If you are building missions please use a frequency other than 300, the default. Also, please provide a list of frequencies in the briefing.

If your aircraft is equipped, just tune the primary navigation frequency to the beacon you are interested in. The German aircraft have a white arrow on the master compass that will point to the beacon. Switch between two beacons to triangulate. The BR20 has an indicator showing the relative direction of the beacon.

Lorenz

All German aircraft except the Bf-109 have a Lorenz setup. On the ground there is a transmitter and two upward facing beacons. If you are lined up on the beam your indicator will show your alignment to the runway and signal strength. As you pass over the beacons a light will flash on the instrument so you know you are on course. They should be placed 300m and 3km from the end of the runway. Some installations had the outer beacon 5km from the runway. Again the transmitter must be set to a specific frequency. The inner and outer beacon are both at 380. Use the secondary navigation frequency to tune in. You will get interference from Non-Directional or Long Range beacons if they are at the same frequency. If you are building missions there is no reason not to have every transmitter at a unique frequency.

The Lorenz did not work in the original version. I'm not sure when the update that fixes it will be finished testing and released.

[Tibsun]

Take a look at this post and maybe read some of the upper posts aswell https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13037&p=141791&viewfull=1#post141791

EDIT: Well just look at the frequencies at first post.

[Torric270]

Battle of the Beams missions: One daylight to train on, 2nd to bomb Ramsgate in the middle of the night. The airfield will give a % damaged thanks to Freya!

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8840&highlight=battle+beams

[Torric270]

Also, easy training while on the London Ruft mission if it is still the same: 88 for the best results.

Spawn at Oye Plage and fly TO Lympne on the Lympne freq.

Spawn at Oye and fly FROM Oye to Lympne or anywhere else w/in the signal strength on Oye freq

Target out West of Littlestone: Fly FROM Littlestone to the target area flying on the Littlestone freq.

[ATAG_Noofy]

This is exactly what I was looking for.

This forum is full of knowledge :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you all for your replies and for helping dig these very interesting discussions from the past.

[1lokos]

Blind landing with Lorenz - Morse code don't work. AFN-1 may don't work in air-start missions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egXxgiOA930

[ATAG_Noofy]

Blind landing with Lorenz - Morse code don't work. AFN-1 may don't work in air-start missions.



Nice :thumbsup:

I read somewhere that the range of the Lorenz was 2-3 km?
In this video it seems the signal was picked 50-60 km out. Go figure...

[1lokos]

Mission used in above video (by OBT~Miguel21 in Check6! (http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=412&t=179913#p1437141)):

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9gs1l0lsfcdhke0/lorentz_longue_finale.zip

Since - as someone said, things in CloD work in... "CloD way":



Take off from Tramecourt
Before take off:
Set Altimeter
Set Lorentz on 195 MHZ - very important, it must be done before take off, to debug the AFN1 , and capture (Lorenz) signal at long distances (if don't do this AFN-1 will "wake-up" only at ~2000 meters of distance from Lorenz antenna, too late...)

Set radio beacon to 311 MHZ - to guide you to starting point of the "hanging" zone for catch Lorentz at long distance
Speed up
Head west for 5 minutes
Turn to the North - climb to 3000m
After passing the mark (beacon 311 - (AFN1) white needle must be to the right, for 5 minutes:
Turn Eastern
If then catch the Lorentz signal: follow it, otherwise:
When (AFN1) the white needle is to the right: turn towards the Beacon 311
Aligned in this direction, you should catch Lorentz beam

In Compass Repeater the plane silhouette should point: 174

Start an glide path with a rate of 5 ~ 8m/s


BTW - Lorenz work (more or less) only in single player missions. In MP only in host computer.

[ATAG_Oskar]

The Lorenz did not work in the original version, no signal was emitted from the transmitter. Anything you are seeing on the instrument is interference from beacons. I'm not sure when the update that fixes it will be finished testing and released.

[1lokos]

Oskar

I remember back in ~2013 trying do blinding landing and give up because Lorenz in CloD are just headache, I remember that overfly the external marks sometimes make the AFN-1 light blink, as should. BTW - Lorenz work well in il-2:46 4.10.

But this test in CheckSix! is from 2014... other video from same guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MN0SVLwonw

For simulate a Knickebein is need audible Morse code.



The Knickebein is an evolution of Lorenz blind-landing system. It relies on two powerful beams crossing just right over the target.
The first one emitting dash signals, and dot for the 2nd one.
So the typical usage is as follows : when the airborne operator hears a continuous signal, it's time to release bombs, but the latter action is done manually with Knickebein.

So basically, in order to use this bombing aid in COD, we need:
- 1 beam for dot signals
- 1 beam for dash signals
- the possibility to setup the beams properly in the FMB, so the beams can be crossed on map when right on target.
- 1 dot sound
- 1 dash sound
- 1 continuous sound.

[1lokos]

"Water under the bridge".

But figure what are wrong with SBA Hat antenna (Lorenz).

The thing have the signal bean pointed vertical instead horizontal.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0xkRZKJ/Lorenz-diag.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJ3FR3kV)chase hours near me (https://banks-nearme.com/chase-near-me)

More high you fly, more far you pick Lorenz signal.

Some things wrong in CloD seems made wrong on purpose by programmer... :grr:

[ATAG_Oskar]

"Water under the bridge".

But figure what are wrong with SBA Hat antenna (Lorenz).

The thing have the signal bean pointed vertical instead horizontal.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0xkRZKJ/Lorenz-diag.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJ3FR3kV)chase hours near me (https://banks-nearme.com/chase-near-me)

More high you fly, more far you pick Lorenz signal.

Some things wrong in CloD seems made wrong on purpose by programmer... :grr:

Not sure what you are asking here. The range of the Lorenz transmitter is around 50km so you should get a signal when 11km high. I am not sure what the vertical radiation pattern looks like though. Always looking for better information on that.

[1lokos]

The range of the Lorenz transmitter is around 50km so you should get a signal when 11km high.

Yes, but in CloD "vanilla" or Blitz can pick the signal at 11KM high (at around 2 KM far), but can't pick at 50KM far (flying that height) neither can't pick as far of 10 KM far flying at 500 or the ideal 250 meters of altitude, even with the plane in AI autopilot, in the correct path.

https://i.postimg.cc/N03HXMvz/Lorenz-scheme-en.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqQ5BDpY/Antenna1.jpg

BTW - I post this just as curiosity about CloD quirks. Seem another case of inversion in code, like happens with vertical x horizontal convergence, the landing request...

[1lokos]

How SBA (Standard Beam Approach) work, in Lancaster, showing the importance of the audible Morse Code signals (missing in It's CLoD!).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZEoJKtx2wc

[ATAG_Noofy]

Battle of the beams…


https://youtu.be/IDJhoyL9GDY

[COA]

Beacons - Non-Directional Beacons and Long Range Beacons

Only the He-111, Ju-88 and BR20 have gear to use these. The Bf-110 carries the gear but you can't access it because it is in the observer's position. The mission builder must set the beacon to a specific frequency, 200 - 600 khz. If you are building missions please use a frequency other than 300, the default. Also, please provide a list of frequencies in the briefing.

If your aircraft is equipped, just tune the primary navigation frequency to the beacon you are interested in. The German aircraft have a white arrow on the master compass that will point to the beacon. Switch between two beacons to triangulate. The BR20 has an indicator showing the relative direction of the beacon.

Lorenz

All German aircraft except the Bf-109 have a Lorenz setup. On the ground there is a transmitter and two upward facing beacons. If you are lined up on the beam your indicator will show your alignment to the runway and signal strength. As you pass over the beacons a light will flash on the instrument so you know you are on course. They should be placed 300m and 3km from the end of the runway. Some installations had the outer beacon 5km from the runway. Again the transmitter must be set to a specific frequency. The inner and outer beacon are both at 380. Use the secondary navigation frequency to tune in. You will get interference from Non-Directional or Long Range beacons if they are at the same frequency. If you are building missions there is no reason not to have every transmitter at a unique frequency.

The Lorenz did not work in the original version. I'm not sure when the update that fixes it will be finished testing and released.

Sorry for repeating post written here few days ago but I have huge problem: cannot change any frequency only on Germans planes secondary Nav. Freq. that is always default 300 KHz, others don't shows anything, Lorenz is dead too. BR 20 changes Primary Radio Nav. Freq. but indicator is dead too. All NDB are tuned properly, markers turned right on proper places, simply radio navigation don't exist in my case.

[ATAG_Noofy]

Sorry for repeating post written here few days ago but I have huge problem: cannot change any frequency only on Germans planes secondary Nav. Freq. that is always default 300 KHz, others don't shows anything, Lorenz is dead too. BR 20 changes Primary Radio Nav. Freq. but indicator is dead too. All NDB are tuned properly, markers turned right on proper places, simply radio navigation don't exist in my case.

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8840&p=393649&viewfull=1#post393649