Warps, Disconnects, Disappearing planes from stock... [Archive] - The Air Tactical Assault Group - Team Fusion

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TWC_Fatal_Error

Jun-30-2017, 09:42

TWC is testing our Campaign server and would like pilots to test and report on any anomalies found on our forum @http://forum.twcclan.com. We are trying to put together a 24/7 campaign that works only with points both for and against so the lines advance.

This server campaign is based on the ground war.The Axis hold almost all ground north and east of the Somme and have at the start invaded in the area of Abbeville. A bridge head was constructed and the Axis came across in the night but our forces destroyed the bridge and now the Axis are stranded on our side of the Somme. The invading forces are trying to rebuild the bridge and supplies and vehicles are flooding into the area.Meanwhile the armored forces are heading to Friville-Escarbotin to attack the Allied forces there. If the Axis have more points than the allies the map will move further south and west with the next daylight spawn. If the allies hold or equal the points of the Axis then the map again rolls over to the original. This map once activated can not move north and east. During testing all phases of the map will be used but only for the testing phase.

Points are made by destroying fuel stores,Armor,Trucks,Ships,Supplies. Many of these are soft targets but also many are hard targets requiring a bomber for either side to destroy. Points are lost by letting your tanks ships fuel stores and supplies be destroyed!Skies are protected on both sides of the front and enemy fighters are prevalent for both sides. As are AI bomber raids on valued targets for both sides!

We encourage Squad participation but singles are welcome during testing to help us work out the bugs in the system.Get on Teamspeak and ask a TWC for the password to the Server and come help us get this working. More information can be found at our website http://www.twcclan.com/Campaign Server (http://www.twcclan.com/Campaign) thank you <S>Fatal

ATAG_Vampire

Jun-30-2017, 13:12

Thanks for keeping everyone in the loop Fatal, it is much appreciated.

I hope to get on the server now I am back from my holiday and hopefully we 'Rag Tags' can get together and try it out.

Looking forward to getting stuck in to the campaign very soon. Thanks for all your hard work. :thumbsup:

Regards

o7 Vamps :salute:

BOO

Jul-01-2017, 07:42

Hello

External views?

Cheers

BOO

TWC_Fatal_Error

Jul-01-2017, 08:30

turning them off our skins work without the views so we are ditching the outside views when the testing is over.

StG77_Ripgrunwald

Jul-01-2017, 08:55

No outside views excellent. Is there any free places for StG77 on axis side (bombers)?

9./JG52_Meyer

Jul-01-2017, 13:36

Cheers Fatal :thumbsup:

Hals und Beinbruch

TWC_Fatal_Error

Jul-04-2017, 21:13

Thank you to our russian friends for posting the front line map that can be found on our TWC Website (http://twcclan.com/campaign-server/) at our campaign section. Please help us work out the bugs in this by doing the high altitude bombing and destruction of ground targets as called for in the ever updating briefings (every 90 min new mission)

eventually we will have a menu listing points scored for your respective side but you will only know if you have won when the map rolls after a 12 hour dual Circuit. If red has more points then the map repeats if blue has more the map rolls south and blue's get more equipment to crush red with and to guard against attack or destruction which is the job of the reds. Strikes on airbases and on rear areas is expected so be aware of your surroundings at all times.

If you attack targets expect the breathers to find you since it is their job to cover any advance from attack but don't think AI will not jump in and cover it's own for it certainly will and it will attack you stuff also. I have worked hard so we can get this rolling and I have had much help along the way I appreciate all of you for your time and effort to make this a success.<S>Fatal

Cassius

Jul-05-2017, 04:01

No problem. We have really interest to make how much tests how we can, to find something goes wrong.
We need place, when I and other could post report about what was founded and questions. I posted some in the thread new Campaign..brilliant at WCT forum but seems it was covered other posts.
We are successful attacked field Poix Nord in 3 111s from 5000 to see how we can damage infrastructure, just for our preparing for other big level raids. S!

♣_Spiritus_♣

Jul-09-2017, 15:27

Good server, everyone should check it out.

AZ12 spawn point for Blue has all aircraft available, and the Alt F2 code thing are the only things I noticed. (Countzero mentioned the AZ12 spawn point so he will have more info about that).

Good stuff. Thanks for the work. :thumbsup:

9./JG52_Meyer

Jul-20-2017, 06:34

Fatal when me and Sturm flew in the server yesterday we noticed a glaring bug do we bring it up here or on your forum or speak to you on ts
Cheers mate

Hals und beinbruch

TWC_Fatal_Error

Oct-13-2017, 07:52

We need help from German Squadrons Testing new bombing targets in the TWC Tactical Server Please.

There is an airstart for JU88s located north of Caen We have industrial targets in Caen,Le Havre,Dieppe, Le Tréport,Rouen that need to be tested and reported on in these cities.

For testing purposes the Flak is also active and quite powerful but no Fighter cover from AI aircraft in the southern target areas. We have set thousands of targets in the industrial Zone in every city and out of bounds civilian areas that are clearly out of bounds

If you bomb a civilian area by accident you will be warned the first instance.
if you repeat it a second and third time time your team will have added objectives that takes away from the team score.
If done a 4th time your career ends. What we are trying to accomplish with this is to pride yourself on accurate bombing
and team play.
Please remember that we are constantly working on the server to try and make it where everyone can enjoy it so report any bugs you find Either here or on our TWC Forum. I cant fix it if I don't know it is broken <S>

Thanks Fatal

DRock

Oct-13-2017, 17:49

I'll take a look at this tonight, Fatal.

Would you prefer I send you a PM on my results?

Cassius

Oct-14-2017, 01:45

DRock

Oct-14-2017, 12:43

Le Harve seems to behave the way you intended.

A stray bomb near an industrial area can cause civilian casualties.

Flak is unforgiving to low flights over these zones.

Rostic

Aug-28-2018, 13:56

Tomorrow I have planned a single two hour bomber flight on TWC_tactical_server2. I hope it will be at least 10 blue pilots and we will try to hit some targets in England.
So if you are a RED pilot, check server at 20:30 CEST time, may be you will find some easy targets in the sky for your Spitfire :)
If you are a BLUE pilot, or even a bomber pilot, check information about flight in message by this link https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11766&p=319450&viewfull=1#post319450

http://i101.fastpic.ru/big/2018/0828/20/0baf739884706c0f37a59f882354e620.jpg

IIJG27Rich

Sep-01-2018, 12:53

I'm not seeing any registration tab to click on.

SIA_Sp00k

Sep-02-2018, 03:50

No registration required. You can enter and fly the game. Stats page catches all stats. Code handles map movement.

You should log into the twcclan.com page to get access to the maps, stats etc.

(Technically, this advice may be wrong. No registration required to get in the server until campaign starts then for stats etc you need to have registered on the TWC page. (Www.twcclan.com )

JG4_Qetzalcoatl

Sep-20-2018, 13:10

I´m still struggling with the rules on the tactical server. What is the correct way to leave your aircraft after a successful landing und full stop? Doubleclick the flag doesn´t work for despawning. Simply click at the airfield again and choose a new aircraft? When is my aircraft type again available after landing?
By the way with 20-25 players yesterday we had a lot of lags, rubber band and strange behavior of AI bomber formations. I hope this was only a temporary problem. Thanks for your great work!!!

ATAG_Snapper

Sep-23-2018, 14:02

Hi everyone,

From the list provided me by TWC for registered players, I cannot find the following players registered to this forum in order to give them access to the private Discussion Rooms.

If you see your name below or recognize it as one of your mates, please get a Private Mail to me so I can give access ASAP.

Thanks,

Snapper :salute:

The List of Unknown Players:

HerrPotsKartoffelkopf
69th_CROW
69th_kilo9
69th_Leart}{awk
69th_Moose
69th_Pug
69th_Windigger
71st_AH_Macro
615_Genisis
bw101643
Capt Dan
cholmondeley
JEFFYT01
mlucam
No.85_Cam
No.119_Bruv
No.238_Badger
No.238_BlacKnight
No.238_Bravo308
No.238_Pyro
No.238_Seasquirt
penguin
Puma_Cl
Steerpots(PO-T)
TWC_Dave
TWC_Fast
TWC_Hoss
1./JG26_CarlMarks
Alex_Magnus
,E69_Groucho
,E69_Jogar
,E69_pepe
,E69_Pienoir
,FLS_Tepes
I./KG40_Gustav_Kranke
,II./JG51Krafft
JG1_Ludwig,,Blue
JG4_Pega
JG4_Yellow
Looping Louie

TWC_Fatal_Error

Sep-24-2018, 23:22

still working on it Quetz many things still not corrected via TF but I am trying to work around them as best I can. testing this week all week so should be ready to go soon. keep pushing it in the server get as many as you can to come fly at once 25 is a good start but i need 65

ATAG_Knight

Sep-25-2018, 05:37

I'm itching to get back in the cockpit but unable to do so until weekend at the earliest . Will give it my best effort on my return . This is a great server and deserves success for all the hard work that's gone into it . :salute:

Kling

Sep-25-2018, 05:42

TWC_Fatal_Error

Sep-30-2018, 19:33

Ok think we have what we need so Registration will end for this first week on 9/30 at 2200 hrs eastern US time at that time we will reset everything and the server will start at 0700 hrs eastern Us time on 10/1.

Thank you all for the testing Hope you enjoy our work. Remember this is war treat it as though your virtual life depended on it.Have fun and spread the word more signups will start in a week (since I think there will be a lot of dead pilots to replace lol).<S> Fatal

ATAG_Freya

Oct-04-2018, 00:21

:thumbsup:

THIS IS AWESOME.

Thank you Fatal, Flug, TWC, and all else involved!

:salute:

IIJG27Rich

Oct-04-2018, 07:00

Still haven't had a email reply for the PW and activation. It said I was successful in registering.:salute:

9./JG52 Hackl

Oct-05-2018, 07:52

Just giving a shout out to TWC for some great fights last night thurs 04.10.18 9:00-11:00 edt.
Tepes, Blasto, Moustache and myself work together being out numbered against continuous co ordinated onslaughts from twc at high alt.
Fantastic stuff guys Salute:salute:

SIA_Sp00k

Oct-05-2018, 08:41

Still haven't had a email reply for the PW and activation. It said I was successful in registering.:salute:

PM’ed you

AKA_Blasto

Oct-05-2018, 11:40

S!~

Yes Hackl- super fun. About 9:30pm EST - found myself in a flight of four- patrolling ( classified ) with Hack- Tep- 'Stache - over the Channel. Team numbers were Luft. (4) - RAF (14) . We found and engaged numerous contacts above contrails- fights lasting 20-30 min. both sides slashing / rolling / firing / contrails intertwined everywhere. Absolutely awesome - both from TWC and 69th - and from the hastily thrown together flight of 4 of us. In one sortie - our flight of four accounted for 11 kills- w. no AI being involved. Lovely.
Good wingmen tactics - good fighting spirit- good times! Unfort.- about 2 hours later- Mustache , Kiwi , and I were out again - I just turned 41 kills - and get pasted by aaa at or near Littlestone- arrg. My first death- after all that.
Tonight I start anew- sigh. Thanks again for the great fights last night Allies- and keep bringing it. This weekend should be fun!

S!~ AKA_Blasto

QB.Creep

Oct-05-2018, 14:43

Salute to Blasto, Hackl, Tepes, and Moustache for the fights last night. We had a heck of a time dealing with you guys up there at 25K+! Very smart flying and excellent gunnery skills. Look forward to seeing you guys as the campaign continues! :salute:

ATAG_Ezzie

Oct-05-2018, 17:26

Just flew my first sortie - awesome work TWC.

Thanks for all your efforts in making this campaign.

Ezzie

No.119_Bruv

Oct-05-2018, 17:29

has been a blast so far well done to flug, fatal and the rest of the TWC boys for providing us with such a dynamic and challenging environment. :thumbsup:

IIJG27Rich

Oct-05-2018, 23:01

Where do you go to look at your campaign stats? All I see are the mission stats.:doh:

SIA_Sp00k

Oct-06-2018, 00:17

Where do you go to look at your campaign stats? All I see are the mission stats.:doh:

Top left of the same page you will see a hyperlink to the Tactical Server stats, radars map etc.

9./JG52 Hackl

Oct-06-2018, 22:38

ATAG_kiwiflieger

Oct-06-2018, 23:04

I think maybe the death timeout could be increased as well, to 10-15min?

Also noticed a few other small things with the radar/stats:

- The time reported by the stats for minutes spent in the air is incorrect, it reported I had been in the air for 7 min when it has been so far more like 6hrs

- A few things in this image of a radar report, the weird text at the top which I believe is the information that I show up as in the radar, and what seems to be duplicate radar reports below that.

37110

So far I've had huge fun in this campaign, thanks for putting this up TWC :thumbsup:

Kayo

Oct-07-2018, 08:38

Need to up the death penalty to 30 min or so to stop the mindless senseless waste of aircraft.
Maybe folks will fly more cautiously preserving their virtual lives as well as the aircraft.
If its to much of a free pass or too easy people don't seem to care much, just grab another.
Make them pay a price for reckless behavior.
thinking out loud.

I agree and disagree.
Flying fighters I think it would be ok with a bit longer ”death penalty” although 30 min seems very tough especially when you are not as experienced and well trained as you guys in JG52. I guess that 30 min would keep me as a rather bad fighter pilot from flying at all. But in a fighter you have at least the chance to disengage or choose your fights carefully.

Flying bomber and getting a 30min penalty I think would be a problem. You cannot disengage if a hord of 109s is attacking and even if you have fighter escort that can deal with these rotten 109s or you choose a clever route to the target you still have the partly dense flak that can PK or damage you so you get killed. Would be very annoying if you need to wait 30min and you cannot even jump in the gunner position in one of your squd mates plane.

So dont forget the bomber boys! It’s these guys that win the war! :vulture:

SIA_Sp00k

Oct-07-2018, 09:55

TWC_Target

Oct-07-2018, 10:29

The major penalty is aircraft attrition, which I think makes more sense than a time out. But perhaps the timeout will help you reflect on your careless mishandling of government equipment.:)
And then there's that other penalty, the Charlie Brown scape goat thingy, don't bomb civies or everyone suffers. Esp. the civies, which seem to go up like their last meal was napalm.

(cept that last bit about them winning the war.. Everyone knows the Beaufighter did that), :sick:

ATAG_Laser

Oct-07-2018, 11:54

I have spent months talking Fatal out of having extra long death times. Kayo’s point above re the Bombers is a valid one (cept that last bit about them winning the war.. Everyone knows the Beaufighter did that)

I fear many people would leave after one death finding a 5+ minute penalty and not come back. Real life has a way of grabbing hold of you when you relinquish the stick. 3 minutes annoyed the hell out of me and that was standard in the Mission server. Flug and Fatal have removed the “override” command so it doesn’t appear in the Campaign server. I, (not that I am anybody) dont support longer deaths.

I do feel your frustration tho Hackl. This morning I watched as a new Allied pilot, obviously inexperienced, crashed Spitfire after Spitfire. One one hand we need to encourage these guys (hard when their not on TS) and on the other we need to combat the loss of planes. I think now as important as it ever was, is the time for each side to teach these players quickly online. Hopefully encourage them onto TS so the learning is quicker and it doesn’t impact on a players flying time.

On ATAG's part we try and welcome new players, offer help and advice, and encourage them to get onto Teamspeak, but ultimately that's all we can do, offer and encourage.

Once they do venture online then we can, and often do try and help them get up to speed.

The learning curve with this sim is notoriously steep. I myself have been flying for 2 and a half years and I am still aweful at combat, get shot down a lot and still I screw up a few landings, so believe me I do have a lot of sympathy with these inexperienced guys.

As for risk taking, it's a difficult one. If you are in a Spit and you spot Mr Hakl and his mates high above, then you clearly try and get the hell out of there fast, but what if you spot a group of enemy bombers about to bomb one of their objectives, usually escorted. Do you try and stop them, or think 'Hang on, I might get shot down by the escorts here, best leave them to bomb whatever they want to bomb and let the bofors take care of them?

It's a difficult one. In real life pilots clearly risked their lives to defend their country

dziki

Oct-07-2018, 13:01

Hi !

I'm just registered at TWC Campaing Server as 317_dziki (red side).
Could somebody please send me a password to server and address with pass to TWC TS ?
At ATAG TS there is nobody to ask :ind:

ATAG_Snapper

Oct-07-2018, 13:35

Hi !

I'm just registered at TWC Campaing Server as 317_dziki (red side).
Could somebody please send me a password to server and address with pass to TWC TS ?
At ATAG TS there is nobody to ask :ind:

Hi dziki,

You now have access to the private TWC General and Red Discussion Rooms. You will find the password there. Just scroll down this ATAG Forum and you’ll now see them. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Snapper :salute:

dziki

Oct-07-2018, 14:11

Thx a lot ! :thumbsup:

dziki :salute:

TWC_Fatal_Error

Oct-08-2018, 09:30

kiwi how could you be in the air for 6 hours????

and it looks like you are reading console information as it is reported in the game to the server

not server information found in your information window

dziki

Oct-09-2018, 18:33

Hi !

Could somebody put an actual list of planes (flyable and non-flyable) at TWC Campaign Server ?
Last time (my first sortie at this server) I spotted out 3 Gladiators II and this encounter had the bad end :recon:
:)

Baffin

Oct-10-2018, 10:29

Is there any way to automate the server log in on TWC? I'm so lazy, I don't want to type in the password each time. :sleep:

Kendy for the State

Oct-10-2018, 10:40

Sometimes I land my aircraft and I'll see the message "Kendy landed safely", and then it will say something along the lines of "Spitfire Ia was returned to inventory". Many times though, I will get the "Landed safely" message, but nothing about the status of the plane. Does this mean the plane had to be written off, even though it seemed as though I had little to no damage?

\Hawk/

Oct-10-2018, 10:40

Is there any way to automate the server log in on TWC? I'm so lazy, I don't want to type in the password each time. :sleep:

What is the password?

How do i get on board?

TWC_Fatal_Error

Oct-10-2018, 10:46

\hawk/ at the current time we only have room for blue pilots unless one of the reds is unable to participate and would like to give his slot to you sir if you care to fly blue pm me and i will fix it sir.

Kenedy if your plane is damaged then you will receive no message as to returned to stock for it is in for repair but not lost to inventory sir

Honeybadger

Oct-10-2018, 14:33

Just wanted to say I've been flying on this server since the beginning and its been an absolute blast! Thank you and keep it going!

ATAG_Freya

Oct-10-2018, 19:31

\hawk/ at the current time we only have room for blue pilots unless one of the reds is unable to participate and would like to give his slot to you sir if you care to fly blue pm me and i will fix it sir.

Would it be beneficial for a red pilot to give up his slot and row across the channel to join the luftwaffe? Given the state of the campaign (1000+ points for red last I checked) and seeing the team #'s balanced more in reds favor during the few times I flown (NA eves), I might be willing to. For a promotion, more pay of course.. Happy either way, its all good fun no matter what crate I abuse. Honestly, I thought red was gonna get spanked at first but it's not so. Not that I could do anything to change that lol. Lemme know! Maybe I could drag another 'turncoat' or two with me (u know who u are!! hehe) to help with the balance. Just a thought ~S~

ATAG_kiwiflieger

Oct-10-2018, 20:08

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/954/924/bd1.jpg

ATAG_Pattle

Oct-10-2018, 21:08

I'm will jump over and even up numbers.

Keen to do some serious 110 high speed super low level high explosive egg dropping adventures.

Cheers,

Pattle

ATAG_yotheguy

Oct-10-2018, 21:35

TWC_Fatal_Error

Oct-10-2018, 23:09

ok read the numbers 157 red 135 blue open slots for blue until the numbers read same amount. Switching sides will not help the situation. New plane restrictions start this week to alleviate the loss of aircraft on both sides. If you choose to switch sides the system we have in place will become unstable!

The blues are becoming more organised it has only been a week and 1/2 give them a chance to start working together. Fatal

Pans

Oct-11-2018, 07:25

I'm glad to see the balance coming back. Hopefully organisation will continue to follow.

Devildog71

Oct-11-2018, 08:39

ATAG_Vortex

Oct-11-2018, 16:33

~S~

Tried registering on the TWC forums at the beginning of the week, but no reponse yet. Same with the PM that I sent Fatal on here. Nobody loves me :ind:

No.119_Bruv

Oct-11-2018, 17:03

Ciao a tutti , avrei una domanda, da qualche giorno riscontro dei notevoli lag sopratutto in prossimità di calais volevo chiedervi se sta capitando anche ad altri, se dipende dal server o se devo ricontrollare le mie impostazioni che sembrano funzionare bene. scusate se non scrivo in inglese .

Hello everyone, I would have a question, a few days of the remarkable lag especially near the calais I wanted to ask if it is happening to others, if it depends on the server or if I have to check my settings that seem to work well. sorry if I do not write in English.

Hi Devil, Some hot spots on the map can get overcrowded with alot of players on the server. Did you see how many humans / AI were in your local area when you saw lag?

I haven't seen much out of the ordinary except the occasional player with high ping which is to be expected.

What are your computer specifications CPU , GPU , RAM?

I Have enjoyed our fights. You very nearly got a free kill on me the other day but my squadron mate gave me a quality ch6 and you flew right by. :thumbsup:

SIA_Sp00k

Oct-11-2018, 18:51

~S~

Tried registering on the TWC forums at the beginning of the week, but no reponse yet. Same with the PM that I sent Fatal on here. Nobody loves me :ind:

Ill check with Fatal today mate.

Baffin

Oct-11-2018, 19:27

Hello everyone, I would have a question, a few days of the remarkable lag especially near the calais I wanted to ask if it is happening to others, if it depends on the server or if I have to check my settings that seem to work well. sorry if I do not write in English.

Hi Devil, Some hot spots on the map can get overcrowded with alot of players on the server. Did you see how many humans / AI were in your local area when you saw lag?

I haven't seen much out of the ordinary except the occasional player with high ping which is to be expected.

What are your computer specifications CPU , GPU , RAM?

I Have enjoyed our fights. You very nearly got a free kill on me the other day but my squadron mate gave me a quality ch6 and you flew right by. :thumbsup:

Calais, due to its building density, is a notoriously difficult place to fly over at low altitude. Even with a GTX1080ti in a fast machine, I expect some jittering and slowdowns, especially if sharing the sky with other players. My system (Specs below) usually produces no better than 37 FPS when low over Calais. I compensate for this by treating Calais like an extremely well defended area and I choose to just go around it or fly over it at greater than 3000' if I can. :flying:

ATAG_Vortex

Oct-12-2018, 15:22

Ill check with Fatal today mate.

All sorted it seems Sp00k, cheers :thumbsup:

No.119_Viper (VK-S)

Oct-12-2018, 17:02

I haven't had much time to fly with I think one sortie since the start, but I would be up for switching to blue.

I picked red because I though it would give me a chance to fly with a wimgman when I was able to jump on. :alcohol:

I hate to see uneven numbers, I find it lessens the fun on both sides.

:salute:

Hi Yo, should you find yourself at a loose end and on your own, due to time and real life restraints on your availability to fly, then give us a shout, You will be more than welcome to wing up with 119th Sqn (The Few), we currently have a complement of five pilots, so with your inclusion we could fly 3 lots of 2, problem solved :thumbsup:

:salute:
Viper

ATAG_Ribbs

Oct-12-2018, 17:34

Fatal I do see your point...but the hardest part of running a successful 24-7 mission is having balanced side the majority of the time. In Blastos post where it was 14-4 in favor of Reds is the way it is 85% of the time in the NA timezones. To me it seems like it's going to become a who can hit the other the hardest while the other isn't on.. instead of a 24-7 battlefield. Having some of us NA guys switch to Blue seems logical to keep the server balanced as long as possible? Don't ya think? Just an observation. I'm loving the campaign no matter what route you take! S!

Besides I see a whole stock pile of shiny G50s not being used! :)

rmiles

Nov-13-2018, 14:15

Hi,

I have a problem with signing up. I've given my username, and my email, but I have received no password. Any explanation for this?

!S!, Miles

ATAG_Snapper

Nov-13-2018, 15:30

Hi,

I have a problem with signing up. I've given my username, and my email, but I have received no password. Any explanation for this?

!S!, Miles

No worries! You now have access to the private TWC General Campaign and Blue Discussion Rooms (just scroll down this forum and you’ll spot them). In the General Discussion Room you will find the password.

Good luck!

:salute:

Rostic

Nov-13-2018, 15:34

Hi,

I have a problem with signing up. I've given my username, and my email, but I have received no password. Any explanation for this?

!S!, Miles

Password is not send by e-mail (as I know).

If you are registered you must have access to private forum.
In first post by this link you can find password: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29781&p=321386&viewfull=1#post321386

Migpilot

Nov-14-2018, 00:14

SWEET!!! Glad I joined this forum! Thanks for the hard work

rmiles

Nov-14-2018, 10:50

Password is not send by e-mail (as I know).

If you are registered you must have access to private forum.
In first post by this link you can find password: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29781&p=321386&viewfull=1#post321386

Thanks. And another thing, is it absolutely necessary for me to be on Tramspeak while on the server? If so, do I have to use TWC's channel or is there one on ATAG's?

Rostic

Nov-14-2018, 11:23

Thanks. And another thing, is it absolutely necessary for me to be on Tramspeak while on the server? If so, do I have to use TWC's channel or is there one on ATAG's?

As I know... No, it is not necessary. Squads mostly sit in their TS channels or TS servers. Very few players join TWC channel in ATAG TS, at least at time when I fly on the server.

QB.Creep

Nov-14-2018, 12:09

...but the hardest part of running a successful 24-7 mission is having balanced side the majority of the time. In Blastos post where it was 14-4 in favor of Reds is the way it is 85% of the time in the NA timezones. To me it seems like it's going to become a who can hit the other the hardest while the other isn't on..

I've been thinking about this myself. I don't know how difficult this would be to implement, but perhaps more AI could be spawned in for whichever side is outnumbered at any given time? Or maybe that is already happening and I am not aware of it?

That in addition to the new "cover" mechanism that has been introduced should in theory do a lot to level the playing field.

hurri70

Nov-17-2018, 16:13

Hi,
Please , how i can enter your server?

Regards

SIA_Sp00k

Nov-17-2018, 17:30

Ensure you have logged on here....(sign on sheet for campaign MUST be your STEAM NAME)

https://twcclan.com/twc-campaign-sign-up/

I have pm'ed you the password that you need to login with, EVERY time you join the server. Once in, choose a side (the one you signed in on) and stay on it.

Welcome to the war.

Padre, pm'ing you to.

Kendy for the State

Dec-15-2019, 18:06

Before I start, I want to acknowledge the amazing work by TWC_Fatal_Error in programming this map. He has done a fabulous job in what must be a very difficult task, and I think we are all grateful for his efforts. I can’t, however, ignore the big, glaring elephant in the room.

I've been flying the TWC Campaign server as a Blue player for several months now, and I'd like to address the apparent disparity between the two sides.

I know the Red players will (and have done so) dismiss me as a whiner, but I invite them to fly on the Blue side for a while and tell me their thoughts. As a side note, I am traditionally a Red player, but last year Fatal asked for more players to go to the Blue side to help even out the numbers, and I and a few other traditionally Red fliers took on the challenge.

I've had conversations with Fatal Error about this, and has readily admitted that the points are skewed toward the Red side's advantage. I don't think he realizes how much, however.

I’ve trolled through the stats pages, and found that the results are pretty confusing. There may be some serious errors in the stats, so maybe the numbers can’t speak for themselves. For one thing, I’ve tried to separate the Reds from the Blues by using the “Rank” field. Unfortunately, it looks like when a player is killed and then leaves the map without re-spawning, it gives them the rank of “Tyro”, even if they are a Blue player and the rank should be “Neuling”. This may skew the numbers somewhat, though since there not nearly as many players on the Blue side that have accumulated a lot of points, and in many cases I can identify their affiliation by their name, not just rank. Also, the only number in the stats that seems to carry over after you are killed is the “Total Kills (any Participation)” field, which is the next to last field in the stats.

Using this field for measurement, in the Campaign so far, Red has accumulated 33,186 points, about twice the Blue total of 19,582. A pretty even distribution considering that the stats show 662 players signed up for Red, and 245 players signed up for Blue.

Based on these number, one would think things are working out pretty fairly. One would be wrong.
Note: These stats change continuously, so the following is just a snapshot, and will change by the time you read this.

FLAK – I haven’t flown on the red side, so I don’t know what the flak looks like when they fly over one of the Blue Airfields. I can tell you that from the ground, it appears to be 3-4 AA guns firing. When I fly over a friendly airfield, I find it difficult to spot any AA batteries. I know that there is at least one a couple kilometers north of Marquise West, arguably our busiest airfield. When I fly over Littlestone, apparently the Red’s busiest airfield, there are 3 full AA batteries within 300 meters of the airfield, as well as numerous AA guns on the field itself. There is also even more AA from nearby Lympne airfield, and Dungeness Radar. Reds always know where the Blue planes are because the Flak follows us around the moment we get near the coast of Old Blighty, whereas flak is practically nil on Red attackers until they are directly over a Blue target.
In practice, if you look at the stats at some of the highest scoring Red Bomber fliers, you can see that their highest scoring bomber has 24 sorties before dying.
On the other side of the spectrum, you will see only 1 Blue flier with 10 sorties, and few others even close. The average Blue bomber sortie is a death sentence, and I can tell you from personal experience that 99% of those deaths are from Flak, not enemy aircraft.

Again, it is not easy to extract good info from these stats, because, for instance, if you fly a Hurri-bomber, or a BF-109 “B” model, the stats show you flying a fighter, not a bomber.

Looking at just the Bomber pilot stats, you’ll see their highest scoring bomber pilot dropped 5,350 Kilograms of bombs on target in 24 sorties (24 sorties without dying! Really?), with a 95.5% hit percentage, for a total of 468.83 TWC kill points, or 466,525 Raw damage points. The top scoring Blue pilot (Disclaimer: Me) dropped 5,749 Kilograms of bombs on target in 5 sorties, with a 100% hit percentage, and a total of 63 kill points, or 67,286 Raw damage points.

If you look closely at these numbers you will see at first that, whoa, Blue fliers can drop a lot more bombs in a single sortie than Red pilots can. I believe the Blenheim carries 450 Kg of bombs, where the Ju-88 carries I think ~ 2200Kg. You would think this would give the Blue side an enormous advantage. Wrong again. Delving further into the numbers, you’ll see that Red gets about 87 Raw damage points per Kilo of bombs, but Blue only gets about 12 Raw damage points per kilo. This means that Red bombs are 7-1/4 times more effective than Blue bombs. Was this the case during the actual war?

If the Blue side flew only JU-88 bombers, and the Red side flew only Blenheims, then MAYBE this disparity would be a fair contest (let’s forget about even remotely trying to be historically accurate). The problem here is that very few players actually fly bombers. I only learned to fly the JU-88 because I was getting so frustrated with the fact that my JABO sorties were only 1/7th as effective as the Red JABO sorties. If you get rid of the bombers, and only allow JABO aircraft, this means that the Red side can disable an airfield (requires 50% destruction) with 8 Hurri-bomber sorties (64 50-lb bombs – less than 1,500 Kilos), whereas the blue side would need to make 50 109-E1/3/4B sorties (200 50 Kilo bombs – 10,500 Kilos).

So, to sum up the bombing percentages, know that the Red side can turn the map with 1/7th the effort it takes the Blue side. If my observations about AAA are correct, then the disparity is even worse than that.

For a good illustration of the problems, I’ll observe that a small core of Blue fliers was flying every night concentrating on killing Red targets and ignoring dogfights as much as possible. Through several week of hard work we managed to roll the map successfully fairly regularly. During this period, the Red players hardly ever attacked targets, and were instead shooting down every Blue AI plane they could find. The result of our effort was that we accumulated over 1,300 campaign points. Apparently the Red leadership must have decided enough was enough, and exhorted the Red players to concentrate on targets. In less than one day, the Red players turned the map at least 8 times...when I joined that night the Blue points had dropped from over 1,300, to under 500, and within a couple more days, Red was several hundred points ahead. At the same time, Red AI patrol aircraft appeared to double. Where originally they were spawning in at 8,000 meters, and Blue aircraft were able to stay under the radar all the way to target, now at least half the Red AI patrols are at 2,000. meters and below. It is now almost impossible to make it all the way to a target without being intercepted. When this happens with a BF-109 sortie, at least we can try to outrun the AI, or in the worst case, try to fight it out with them. In a JU-88, being spotted is a death sentence, at any altitude. When I first started flying JU-88s I managed to return home, despite the Flak, about 50% of the time. Now I survive perhaps one sortie in 20, or 5%. As a result, the number of JU-88s available is dropping perilously close to 0, erasing any perceived advantage the Red map-makers may think we have.
Another thing that happened when Blue was ahead: the map-makers made the BF 109 E-3/B a restricted aircraft. We now have to be a double ace to spawn in an E-3/B. Might as well go straight to an E-4/B, if we live long enough to do that.

So anyway, I’ll reiterate that I think Fatal_Error has done a tremendous job in programming this map, but I think he is seriously discouraging players from flying on the Blue side. There are only a few of us Blue players who go after targets...the majority of the players who fly in the early afternoon are exclusively fighter pilots, and when they run out of E-1s and E-3s, they use E-1B’s and E-3B’s, making our jobs even harder. I’m pretty discouraged by all this, and I expect once this campaign is over I will not fly on TWC servers any more. You can say you are sacrificing Historical accuracy for Fairness, but in my mind this map is neither historically accurate nor fair.
Lastly, I’ll say again to those of you who will invariably say I’m a whiner: fly the other side for a change, and then I guarantee you’ll be the whiners.

Good flying!
Kendy

Rostic

Dec-16-2019, 04:03

Great research Kandy! About 9 months ago I came to the similar conclusions and switched from regular sorties to single sortie per week or less. I thought that it is to hard to play the ROLL THE MAP game and tryed to get some fun in single bomber sorties. But the map was not rolled about a month and I discovered that it is boring to hit same tartgets every sortie. And I stoped flying dynamic campaign at all.

I think the "elephatnt in the room" that you discribed is one of the reasons why this project not growing.

For me it is still fun to join the server an shotdown few AIs, but nothing more.

Any way Fatal_Error did a great work! And his mission script is amazing! So the big thanks to him! I got a great satisfaction while playing first 90 days campaign!

Kendy for the State

Dec-17-2019, 15:43

So I took a closer look at the stats… went into the spreadsheets and deleted all fliers with a “Total Kills” score less than 1. I figure that since the campaign has been running several months now, anyone with a score less than one probably only flew once, then moved on.
That left 75 Blue players, and 227 Red players. Of the Blue fliers, 8 of them flew at least 1 bomber sortie. Of the Red fliers, there were 36 bomber pilots.

So about 10% of the Blue fliers made at least one bomber sortie, and about 15% of Red fliers made at least one bomber sortie.

If anything, this tells us that most players do not like to fly bombers. If they are like me, the only reason they are flying bombers is because there are some targets that are easier to kill with a large bomb load. One might even say that, for the Blue side, it would be next to impossible to turn the map without a heavy bomber, again, because of the huge disparity (completely artificial) in the damage points done per Kilogram of bombs. I’ll give you a prime example of the huge gulf between the two sides. Recently, Blue had a selection of Primary targets that included 3 (three!) airfields to knock out. Among the other targets were Dover armor, a target where the vehicles are spread out in a field and along a road, with a flak battery less than 30 meters away, and several more batteries within a half kilometer. I’ve never been able to destroy this target with less than 4 sorties in a JU-88, and 6 sorties in a 109. Additional targets were in London, a suicide run any way you look at it, and even a target all the way out in Swindon, about a 35-40 minute flight . Ignore all the other targets, if you will and concentrate on the 3 airfields. If we had no bombers, it would take Blue 150 sorties to destroy these targets, where with the same targets, red could do it in 24 sorties.

These numbers highlight the huge disadvantage purposely given to the Blue side. If I had a suspicious nature, I would say this was programmed in to assure a Red victory in all cases. I really don’t think Fatal works this way, it is just his misguided attempt to even things out. I think you can see by the numbers of Blue fliers that this method is not working.

I don’t want to be one of those people who offers criticism, but can’t be bothered to help find a solutions, so I’ll put out some ideas here. I can only hope Fatal will give it some thought.

First of all, damage MUST to be fixed so that it is equal on both sides. If a Blue flier drops 100 Kilos of bombs on a target, it should do the same amount of damage as when a Red flier drops 100 Kilos of bombs on an equivalent target. Until you do this, then the Red side is basically cheating.

The way to fix the disparity would be to distribute bombers in such a way as to give both sides more equal footing. Unfortunately, the Red side has fewer options for dropping bombs on a target. They have Hurricane FBs and Blenheims. The Blue side has a lot more to choose from, with BF 109 B models, BF 110s, JU-87s, JU-88s, He-111, BR-20… have I missed any?

So to start, make sure both side have the equivalent number of single engine JABO aircraft, Hurricane FB and BF-109 B models, and that they resupply the same (and their bombs cause equal damage per Kilo).

Next, I think the nearest equivalent aircraft are BF 110s, JU-87s and Blenheims. They all carry a similar bomb load. Place them in front-line airfields where they can get to target in a reasonable amount of time. 110’s can carry 2 500 Kilo bombs, so limit the numbers of the Blue planes so the total bomb loads of Blue and Red bombers is the same. A JU 87 and a 110 can carry 1500 Kilos of bombs, versus the 450 Kilos of a Blenheim, so give the Reds 3 times more Blenheims in stock than the Blues. The stats show 5 times as many Red bomber pilots as there are Blue, so there are obviously more Red pilots to fly those extra aircraft.

Unless you want to omit the other Blue aircraft, place them in airfields that are further away so that it takes longer to get to target, and place the largest payload aircraft, like JU 88s and HE 111s as far away as possible. I would be much less likely to get in a JU 88 if I knew it would take a minimum of 20 minutes to get to a target. Again, limit the number of these aircraft, and give the Reds an equivalent tonnage of Blenhiems at equivalent airfields.

Some might complain that the JU 88 can carry 5 times the bomb load of the Blenheim, to which I’d point out, as I did above, that the stats show there are 5 times as many Reds flying bombers as there are Blues flying bombers. This seems like it evens out.

Anyway, its not my server, so I have no say in how it is run. I do like the maps, and like the way Fatal has programmed things to work. I would hope, however, that he’d like to see more participation. I don’t think he’s going to get it until something changes drastically.

Ever the Optimist,

Kendy

Rostic

Dec-17-2019, 18:18

Just thoughts.

All these numbers are very interesting. But, no matter how carefully the balance of aircraft, bomb loads and the distribution of targets according to their complexity is chosen, all this is useless. Since it is completely impossible to ensure balance due to the random distribution of players. Both in terms of their number and their preferred style of play (fighter / bomber).

Therefore, if something needs to be changed, then these are the rules of the game so that the gameplay is more fun and immerses the player in the virtual world of air combat with all its variety, and do not focus all efforts on equalizing the numbers in statistics. And as long as the server is not populated, AI plays a very important role.

TWC_Padre

Dec-17-2019, 19:12

Just thoughts.

All these numbers are very interesting. But, no matter how carefully the balance of aircraft, bomb loads ....

I'm relatively new to this sim, and have been waiting for some of my more learned colleagues to weigh in on the assumptions/assertions that are being made by Mr. Kendy, however, "in all fairness," I feel the need to point a few things.

I usually play Red .... so let me just add, what I would give to have more than 2 bombing options. What does Blue have ... 6 (which does not include the numerous variants of each model). I'd also like to point out that for starters, to get into a Hurricane FB I need to be an ace first ... however, Blue gets into the seat of a Bf 109E 1B straight away. And when they have reached the level to acquire a Bf 109E 3B, they have that powerful option to take on a fighter after they've dropped the numerous and various loads available to them ... have you ever tried dog-fighting in a Hurricane MkI.

And do you think there is even a comparison between the Blenheim and the numerous medium/heavy bomber models available to the Blue side. And if you thought of comparing the Blenheim with the Bf 110C, don't ... one is a row-boat the other is a speed-boat (you figure out which is which) and should I even mention the fire power of its cannons compared to the two 303 pea-shooters in the Blenheim MkIV.

Rostic is right, there are way too many variables that affect each run, each target hit, each volley of flak encountered. One time I hit a target and receive 10 points, the next time I hit the same target and receive 30+ points ... it all has to do with placement of the load. And when I have to take on a Bf 109E 3B or a Bf 110C with my Hurricane MkI, I often think it's unfair, but those are the rules I have to play against if I want to have fun on the TWC servers.

So thank you Fatal for all the hard-work, commitment, and sacrifices you have made to bring these servers about for my enjoyment, and I'm sure the enjoyment of many other of the community.

AKA_Blasto

Dec-17-2019, 20:41

S!~
Assumptions and assertions...facts more like. Talk straight...you disagree...no problem. The bombing is skewed in favor of the Allies. Fun? Yes. Fair? Don't think so. Is that an assumption or an assertion?

Kendy for the State

Dec-17-2019, 20:55

I'd have to agree with you on that point...it should be no harder for you to get into a Hurri Bomber than it is for me to get into a 109 B model. Put the same restrictions on the 109 E1/B, or remove the restrictions from the Hurricane. I'm all for either of those options. Obviously, not having flown Red I was not aware of that restriction.

I'm relatively new to this sim, and have been waiting for some of my more learned colleagues to weigh in on the assumptions/assertions that are being made by Mr. Kendy, however, "in all fairness," I feel the need to point a few things.

I usually play Red .... so let me just add, what I would give to have more than 2 bombing options. What does Blue have ... 6 (which does not include the numerous variants of each model). I'd also like to point out that for starters, to get into a Hurricane FB I need to be an ace first ... however, Blue gets into the seat of a Bf 109E 1B straight away. And when they have reached the level to acquire a Bf 109E 3B, they have that powerful option to take on a fighter after they've dropped the numerous and various loads available to them ... have you ever tried dog-fighting in a Hurricane MkI.

And do you think there is even a comparison between the Blenheim and the numerous medium/heavy bomber models available to the Blue side. And if you thought of comparing the Blenheim with the Bf 110C, don't ... one is a row-boat the other is a speed-boat (you figure out which is which) and should I even mention the fire power of its cannons compared to the two 303 pea-shooters in the Blenheim MkIV.

Rostic is right, there are way too many variables that affect each run, each target hit, each volley of flak encountered. One time I hit a target and receive 10 points, the next time I hit the same target and receive 30+ points ... it all has to do with placement of the load. And when I have to take on a Bf 109E 3B or a Bf 110C with my Hurricane MkI, I often think it's unfair, but those are the rules I have to play against if I want to have fun on the TWC servers.

So thank you Fatal for all the hard-work, commitment, and sacrifices you have made to bring these servers about for my enjoyment, and I'm sure the enjoyment of many other of the community.

DerDa

Dec-18-2019, 01:48

I'm with Rostic there.

Compare the bomb loads of a Blennie with that of a He 111 or Ju 88 and you see that 'when Blue has to drop 100kg, then Red should have to drop 100kg as well' makes no sense at all.
Not even taking into account that in contrast to the Blenheim both blue bombers have an efficient defensive armament and the 88 is faster than a Hurricane.
If anything the Beaufighter is comparable to the 110, but it does not carry bombs (and cannot shoot backwards), and so is pretty useless in the whole campaign.
And comparing 109 E4-B and the Hurri FB?
Come on!

I think Fatal did a wonderful job trying to keep balance (which necessarily means that the situation has nothing to do with history).
In the end it is the pilots who decide how they want to fly and what they want to fly. And if there are more red bomber pilots who do not care whether they will have to start a new career after every sortie, then red will win.

TWC_Mackers

Dec-18-2019, 17:21

There are number of things limited by the game and a number of things created to balance things out within the campaign that look odd. However, more often than not, there are reasons why certain things have developed in certain ways.

Single engine bombers:

The Hurricane FB has a "drop all the bombs" button - not single release. So it is one target per sortie - where as the 109 can drop one bomb per click. The outcome of this means for two impossibly lucky pilots - one has 4 sorties and the other has just one for 4 potential targets. Not saying this happens often, however, I know which one I would prefer.

Twin engine bombers:

The Blenheim has shocking defences with a restrictive pilots view of above and port side windows. The port window blister is modelled on the plane, but the view doesn't allow it's use - a minor issue I guess (drives me crackers, personally). The bomb load options are pretty poor aswell - far too many little bombs and not enough larger ones. It's what they had at the time and they bravely made do with it, rather them than me. It is a real struggle to get two primary targets per sortie and often it's 'salvo the lot' on one primary target, sometimes damaging other nearby targets in tight places like Calais\Bolougne.

Using altitude in a Blenheim is also limited to 10-15k feet for 'medium' targets (higher for larger targets like airfields upto about 18-19k) due to the lack of magnification on the sight - Ju88 and He111 can be nearly 2-3 times these altitudes. I would say that it's only the few rare Blenheim pilots that use altitude/level bombing, the rest hug the waves and fields.

Most bombers know the peril of 45-60minute return flights with one engine - however not many bother - often simply bailing out or crashing immediately after dropping bombs. I think those that just end the career after bomb release, prefer to wait just 3 minutes to fly again rather than endure 110mph return flights. Personally, I enjoy nursing a busted plane back to base, however, I understand those that can not be bothered. However, if blues run out of Ju88's, they can use He111's, then BR20's, then BF110's onto Ju87's. Reds have Blenheims and a Hurricane.

The AI:

The blues have numerous flights of 8+ 109's and many 4 plane flights of G.50 /109s. Not to forget the BF110 flights with rear snipers seemingly impervious to g-forces. There are more blue bomber raids, mostly with escorts, compared to the seemingly un-escorted few Wellington raids. That is how it should be really, both historically and also combating the low blue player count. Use TAB-4-2 to check your friendly flights, most coastal cities for the Blues have patrols at 2k and up. Not to mention dogfighting stukas and brutal Flak.

The targets:

I might be wrong, things might have changed, or I might have not understood - but I think airfields are/were the only targets where a balance action was purposely made. I think it's two 'max loads' of bombs for a twin engine bomber (not including BF110) to destroy an airfield. Whatever it was, this prevented one blenheim destroying an airfield in one flight and a blue destroying 3 or 4 airfields per flight.

Some targets were buggy, so either the 'trigger requirement percentage' or the 'number of items in the trigger zone' on some targets were altered to get them functioning - sometimes simple spacing edits. These were present on both sides. The "raw damage" in the stats has zero effect on the campaign progress. Campaign Targets have their own values in terms of Campaign Victory Points. I feel for Fatal in regard to having some game time available and on many days spent it sifting through code instead of flying. However, when a vehicle park or armoury store or similar target becomes a primary/secondary - it's nice to see those ground unit points scroll past in the server chat area of your screen. Factories and other targets - not so much in terms of ground unit numbers. Having the targets tabled, weighted and selected at random was a superb step forwards for the campaign, despite having times where the same targets were listed for a good few instances/dice rolls. You generally wouldn't know the primary/secondary targets, after a successful map roll, until you were in the game using TAB-4-6 etc.

The restrictions:

The balance of single engine fighter bombers could be Hurricane FB and 109-E1B - This could be the simplest balance of single engine fighter bombers, it removes the arguement of cannons and bombs. The E1B still has the bonus of 'one bomb per click' release capability which the Hurricane does not. The 109-E3B or E4B has nothing on the red side remotely close. Airframes with cannons, I feel the bomb options could be removed - for airframe balance. I'm sure many would not agree here. Then again, having to hit 5 ground targets or shoot some planes - a blue fighter/fighter bomber pilot has plenty of options to achieve the levels for the later 109's with or without bombs.

As for twin engine FB's and bombers, there is not much that can be done for balance. Potentially add more blue targets and higher percentage of blue primary targets required for a map roll? Would that offset the BF110 FB's, Ju88, He111 and BR20 flexibility compared to the Blenheims?

The map:

The campaign server does provide a little bit more than a generic dogfight map server, but there are limits currently on what can be created. For a historic day by day environment, it would be fairly quiet for large portions of the day, interupted by moments of 'over too soon' action for both sides. It would also be fairly linear for the blues. So how to improve things? Remove map rolling and opt for historically accurate scenes for a series of given days? Limit pilot slots on each side to 10-15-20 each? Remove player bombers altogether and rely on escorting AI bombers only? Standard target layouts and parameters for success for both sides? Standard Flak batteries for both sides?

The single most missed part of server stuffs from older IL2 titles (the 'Merged Era'), for me, is/was the output/log/data from the older style server commanders. You could parse this output and 'remove' the entities once they were destroyed from your map - creating a new map with destroyed stuff removed and intact stuff still there. It was a manual process and part of the reason the =JFC= campaigns were weekly (Sunday for 24hours - one life only). Wednesdays/Thursdays were used for each sides 'battle commander' to submit their sides 'movement orders' for the ground/sea/air units. This wasn't and probably still isn't able to be done on a rolling 24/7 server in older IL2's or CloD, let alone a public one. It was however the closest i've seen to a 'dynamic environment' for IL2 - down to individual statics being recorded.

I wish there was a magic fix to make everything perfect for everyone - but there currently isn't. A few would argue it is a massive step forwards from a generic dogfight server - yet it still is the same concept essentially - but with extra stats/restrictions/target variations. Many pilots do not even look at the stats/career and simply take off to dogfight - often wasting the airframe for a few minutes fun. Those same pilots might not even know when an airframe is low in quantity until the yellow/red text says - no. Those pilots exist on both sides.

I don't know what to suggest, however, I do know/expect, that if we can establish a method for a '24/7 dynamic campaign' in CloD it will more than likely be the same method we can use when TF5 comes out. Currently I see 'Historic' or 'Balanced' and we can't go '100% all in' for either choice currently. This complex issue should not be left to rot, rather it should be fully explored and hopefully solved - atleast worked around.

If there was the standard "not enough blues, you can't choose red" balancer that other games sometimes use - it would limit some of the problems and create other new ones.

My personal view is for an 'Adapted Historic' account of 1940 post BOF - the BoB/Blitz era with 'ratio based formations' on both sides which attack Historically attacked targets (within the limits of the map). So instead of 100 Blue bombers with 60 escorts in one flight, adapt it to be 12 bombers and 8 escorts - simply increasing the frequency of the groups. They should continue to focus on a target until it is destroyed or the number of aircraft that Historically attacked the target, had been reached. Example a Historic Raid of 100 bombers and 60 escorts bombed an airfield - then ingame - it would be adapted as 8-9 flights of 12 bombers and 8 escorts - maybe every 45 minutes (depending how long it took for the bombers to appear/spawn and then to disappear/exit from the map). Being exact isn't possible in the game, but being near-enough could be good enough. On Historically 'quiet days' maybe several days could be adapted and combined into one session. Air spawns ideally would be 30km from any ground unit/airfield/target/reason to be there. Increasing the server session time to 8 hours gives more time to achieve the tasks, I am not sure what the performance implications are there. Even then, if you adapted every historic raid/event that was possible in the game - how would a side 'win'? It would just be a linear scripted event - it could boil down to personal stats farming worst case. Then again, does a side need to 'win' - in Historic terms - thats already been written - is it needed in a game? Could the 'number of attacks' that succeed or fail be used instead for a total of points. Example blues sent 6 raiding groups to targets in England, 3 were successful and destroyed targets - 3 failed. Is that a draw? I would be tempted to dumb the AI raids down to a 'KG of bombs into a trigger radius'. This would fix the "The target hasn't completed" into "It needs more KG of bombs". This wouldn't work for all targets, visually.

I like the idea of Standard Patrols of 3's for reds and 4's for blues - escalating to 6 for red and 8 for blues. Kind of using VIC's, Staffel, Schwarm, Kette and Rotten formations. More fighter/fighter bomber sweeps of blue AI, like the 4 AI BF110's that hit the radar near littlestone and the ones that hit near east church. Hard to get "accurate" but simple enough to be logical, especially low level fighter sweeps.

I enjoy both bombers and fighters on either side - however I would like the option of escorting AI bombers to also contribute to rolling the map. 6 Reds or 8 Blue AI fighters should really intercept bomber raids - it's not like each side didn't know something not-so-nice was enroute historically.

I don't know, I get carried away dreaming of possibilities yet the realities normally screw it up. The fundamentals of any environment created in IL2 - don't fly alone. Flying with others normally resolves most solo problems - be it attacking or defence. However, if you spawn in as the only player on the server - then you are in for a bumpy ride. Single player Hurricane vs 4, 6, 8 or 10+ 109's - it's fun until they wake up.

As for not wanting to participate on the server anymore, that would be a shame fella - we've had many abattle and many good engagements chap. Maybe detach from the war and enjoy the battle?

Kendy for the State

Dec-18-2019, 17:49

TWC_Padre

Dec-18-2019, 18:48

TWC_Mackers

Dec-18-2019, 22:37

Good points all. And you are probably right... I should be like the majority of players and forget about the campaign points, and turning the map, and just fly a fighter. I may just do that. And I'll probably switch back to flying Red anyways, so I'll not have anything to complain about.

Yes, when playing a game feels like a job, something has gone wrong. The closest I've ever experienced something like that was in EvE Online a good few years ago. :recon:

With the campaign points I look at it as prompt to either:

1] Spawn with some pilots in bombers and hit a few targets together.

2] Spawn with some pilots in fighters and patrol somewhere.

3] If I'm on my own, generally CAP while pinging radar regulary - even flying near an AI patrol so I don't welp into 6 109's on my own - unless the buggers ignore my peril. Sometimes make a bomb run using the <cover command for AI escorts. See how much time I have and where the targets are. Check the 'Plotting Radar Site thing' and make a route avoiding the bulk of mid-channel traffic. It might not be a primary or secondary target - just something close. It all helps.

Thinking further, rolling a map isn't the only way to get Campaign Points. Each target listed gives points, they all contribute to the campaign totals - so without the map rolling the points do change. I'm basing that on the campaign update messages while flying - "Altogether this has improved a sides campaign points something something". You can also get an update from the TAB-4 menu. Campaign Summary etc.

Rolling the map does however give a healthy kick increasing airframe counts and overall campaign points. Think of the campaign in high level terms. The Blues were ahead by some 1200 points and it cost alot of airframes, then a few red pilots decided that a couple of weeks intensive bombing was required to counter the blues offensive - urgently - as a group. A half dozen of the reds flew nothing but Blenheims for 3 weeks or more. It turned into a battle of attrition. It wasn't possible to let up for any day. Moving pilots to bombers left fighters under staffed! :stunned:

Thinking in those terms, for about a month it was back and forth between the sides - like trench warfare of yesteryear. However, eventually fatigue (even from a computer game) can set in causing problems - sooner or later one side dips. From reds to blues to reds to blues until completion. Losing for too long or winning for too long will eventually have the same effect on players - fatigue/loss of interest. It never lasts in one sides favour or the others - for too long. Like now, there are a few bomber pilots on each side still putting in the effort to hit targets - more and more have returned to fighter roles. Reds are currently 4,5 or 600 points ahead it changes daily - increase/decrease but not running away with the overall campaign. A bit of a push from one side or the other it could go either way still. The blues have mounted many concentrated assaults in the past and often recaptured the lead.

Hopefully, as the game develops over time, lots of new things will help expand the current options for mission/environment creators and a step further towards having some next generation of 24/7 dynamic campaigns out there. The idea of campaigns, 24/7, fully automated, AI Escorts for Twin Engine Bombers, careers, stats, detailed RaDaR (Player and AI usage) and all public access would have been passed off as day dreaming in CloD. Yet it exists. Also the general access to the Radar site "Contact Plotting Table". That thing really helps with seeing hotspots - never flying A-B routes to targets - always trying to stay 10-15miles away from anything for as long as possible creating some funky routes. I check it before take off and then use the ingame reports to update my route - saves alt and tabbing to a browser window. Quite often I still bumble into a world of nastiness forcing my swift retreat.

I enjoy making missions, but there is no way I would have a clue how to pull all the features together. It took me ages to get landed aircraft removed from a mission after their sortie haha! :doh:

I feel the campaign server has evolved and will continue to evolve with the game. The last year has seen alot more improvements than set backs. I am looking forwards to a new year with much the same progress.

TWC_Mackers

Dec-18-2019, 22:52

So after my +40 minute long flight in my Blenheim to Arras, to hit it's fuel storage depots, my career was ended by the intense flak I encountered there. The good point is, I took out the target. The bad point is, it cost me my career! The good point is, saves me from that long +40 minute flight back to base!:)

Guess the rumors of there being less flak weren't true :ind:

All done in good cheer! :IAG:

Propaganda at work - it was very effective :flying2:

For me it ends with variations of: "Aha I see the target..." <Suddenly - Black Screen of nasty> "Now I don't."

:salute:

Kendy for the State

Dec-18-2019, 23:27

Kendy for the State

Dec-19-2019, 00:26

I don't know what map you are flying Blue bombers, but it's not this one. I've never managed to outrun AI Hurricanes on this map after bombing a target. In fact, I can't even outrun a Gladiator when fully loaded with bombs, unless I start with altitude and blow by them in a dive. If I'm still out a ways from the target they will (and have, many times) catch me and shoot me to pieces.
Yes, Red will win, because they can roll the map at will.

I'm with Rostic there.

Compare the bomb loads of a Blennie with that of a He 111 or Ju 88 and you see that 'when Blue has to drop 100kg, then Red should have to drop 100kg as well' makes no sense at all.
Not even taking into account that in contrast to the Blenheim both blue bombers have an efficient defensive armament and the 88 is faster than a Hurricane.
If anything the Beaufighter is comparable to the 110, but it does not carry bombs (and cannot shoot backwards), and so is pretty useless in the whole campaign.
And comparing 109 E4-B and the Hurri FB?
Come on!

I think Fatal did a wonderful job trying to keep balance (which necessarily means that the situation has nothing to do with history).
In the end it is the pilots who decide how they want to fly and what they want to fly. And if there are more red bomber pilots who do not care whether they will have to start a new career after every sortie, then red will win.

TWC_Mackers

Dec-19-2019, 09:44

Yes, we were up by more than 1300 points, but it took weeks of every single night 4 or 5 of us making bomber sortie after bomber sortie to get that score. My point is that when Red decided to do something about it, it took 2 days to erase our lead (again, several weeks of effort). Red can turn the map at will, any time they want because of the bomb damage disparity. We have to work at it for a long time to do the same.

I put some of the Data into a spreadsheet, interested to see what had happened - it doesn't look as bad as it sounds. It looks like a big offensive happened and it was repelled. It looks like the blues launched a series of raids to destroy the reds, for a moment it looked pretty bad for the reds - then the reds reversed the situation. Neither side has run away with the points. Much like it kinda should do for a BoB environment.

It took Blues 2 weeks of brutal fighting to peak at 1087 points from a red lead. The reds reclaimed the points in a week - it took another week to peak at 449 points. Then the blues reduced the red points to 3 within 5 days. In 10 days the reds peaked again, upto 654 points. Nearly a week later, reds are hovering at 560 points and the battle continues - back and forth.

This simply is showing that any side can win the map and win the campaign using coordinated bombing. No single player can reliably roll the map and live throughout - you can game the career or the mission - not both. It is not a single player environment - it is a team/group environment. It is kinda working as intended.

I used the last recorded "Final Team Totals" for each day.

https://i.imgur.com/Q3ADBU4.jpg

Data collected from the "TWC Tactical Campaign Server TEAM Stats".

This is far better operation than the previous versions of the campaign - it is progress being this close after this long.

TWC_SomeNewGuy

Dec-19-2019, 19:12

I know the Red players will (and have done so) dismiss me as a whiner, but I invite them to fly on the Blue side for a while and tell me their thoughts. As a side note, I am traditionally a Red player, but last year Fatal asked for more players to go to the Blue side to help even out the numbers, and I and a few other traditionally Red fliers took on the challenge.

I'd like to start by saying you are my favorite Blue to fly against due to your humor/sportsmanship, the fact that you dogfight instead of run away, and that you have consistently shot me down with the exception of 2 kills I have on you. This makes you the worst (and best) pilot to fly against as you have the higher K/D on me hand over fist. I enjoy seeing you on as I know I'll be challenged. In no way do I consider you a whiner.

FLAK – I haven’t flown on the red side, so I don’t know what the flak looks like when they fly over one of the Blue Airfields. I can tell you that from the ground, it appears to be 3-4 AA guns firing. When I fly over a friendly airfield, I find it difficult to spot any AA batteries. I know that there is at least one a couple kilometers north of Marquise West, arguably our busiest airfield. When I fly over Littlestone, apparently the Red’s busiest airfield, there are 3 full AA batteries within 300 meters of the airfield, as well as numerous AA guns on the field itself. There is also even more AA from nearby Lympne airfield, and Dungeness Radar. Reds always know where the Blue planes are because the Flak follows us around the moment we get near the coast of Old Blighty, whereas flak is practically nil on Red attackers until they are directly over a Blue target.
In practice, if you look at the stats at some of the highest scoring Red Bomber fliers, you can see that their highest scoring bomber has 24 sorties before dying.

On the other side of the spectrum, you will see only 1 Blue flier with 10 sorties, and few others even close. The average Blue bomber sortie is a death sentence, and I can tell you from personal experience that 99% of those deaths are from Flak, not enemy aircraft.

I have not looked at the stats to see who you are talking about, however I can only assume its Birdtail or Mackers. Both of whom makes it a point to get home, so they fly at high alts and with cover ect ect. I think Mack also has some supernatural powers, so its a bit unfair comparison as he is the second highest scoring TWC fighter at the time of this writing and was the highest scoring Red fighter for a few weeks running. I know for all the other bombers, including myself, its pretty much a suicide mission every time we go to bomb a target. Calais, Dunkirk, Boulogne, and La Harve (pretty much where all of our targets are at with the exception of 1 or 2) are all death traps below 5k feet. If you are to say "well fly higher" I'd say to you "sure, but we aim with a horse hair sight at a target that's hardly visible and only have 4 250lb bombs". Which makes it rather hard to do high alt bombing successfully. Whereas the 88s/111s can lock on target, have a bit of zoom, change disbursement of the bombs, ect ect.

If the Blue side flew only JU-88 bombers, and the Red side flew only Blenheims, then MAYBE this disparity would be a fair contest (let’s forget about even remotely trying to be historically accurate). The problem here is that very few players actually fly bombers. I only learned to fly the JU-88 because I was getting so frustrated with the fact that my JABO sorties were only 1/7th as effective as the Red JABO sorties. If you get rid of the bombers, and only allow JABO aircraft, this means that the Red side can disable an airfield (requires 50% destruction) with 8 Hurri-bomber sorties (64 50-lb bombs – less than 1,500 Kilos), whereas the blue side would need to make 50 109-E1/3/4B sorties (200 50 Kilo bombs – 10,500 Kilos).

So, to sum up the bombing percentages, know that the Red side can turn the map with 1/7th the effort it takes the Blue side. If my observations about AAA are correct, then the disparity is even worse than that.

A few things you get wrong here, disabling an airfield requires 100% destruction. You might be thinking 50% as that's about what pops up during the damage display on a run, however check (through the tab menu) for airfield destruction to get the real damage percentage which has factored in more than just bombs on target but also BOMB PLACEMENT. A bomb dropped on the airstrip itself, not just the grass, is worth more damage points than one dropped off to the side. Not to mention it also leaves the fun craters making the flight line useless. Also, part of this bombing equation is to make the red bombs "worth more" in order to offset the gross difference between an 88 and a Blenie. However this offset simply makes one Blenie load worth the same as an 88, nothing more or less. This evens the playing field for airfield bombing, however we still have less bombs with which (therefore less opportunities) to hit a target. With only 4 250lb bombs, we have to be pretty dead on with our strikes which leads me to the next point.

As I said before, it is a lot harder to do high level bombing on a target for Reds, and with the exception of a maybe 3 or 4 occasions in the past year (and that's flying for 4-6 hours a day 4-7 days a week), I have not seen it work out. Which has led us Reds to do VERY low level dive bombing in Blenies. I think one factor that helps us roll the map is that this extremely low level bombing allows some of us (such as myself) to hit multiple targets in one run with the right amount of luck and discipline. I'll walk you through it, if you are interested.

I usually fly across the channel on a heading to target at 100ft off the deck. If the target is inland I head for a river that leads me there and I follow that in. Once the target is insight/flak range I pop up to about 2k feet, get eyes on the building/silos, and dive in. On the dive I usually lose an engine and one control surface, but I can still (hopefully) hit it. This is why I'll try to fly in such a way as to be on a straight line across multiple targets in the area. I drop one, maybe two bombs on each location then try to egress. In the past 3 months I have not made it home. However I usually get both targets due to being only 50ft above it when I drop. This low level flying also carries the advantage of flak being low on the ground or water which does not draw as much attention from the breathers, as well as being able to hide on the other side of a hill from the flak so that you are out of LOS keeping you safe. It is possible to fly into Boulogne from the south-east side this way and only pick up flak once over the target and on your way home.

I do agree that the fighter bombers currently have a disparity, however there is no way to differentiate as far as I know as the game simply looks at it as a "Red" bomb vs "Blue" bomb. When balancing a game, not everyone is going to be happy, and not everything will be fair. Look at things such as League of Legends or DOTA or WoT ect where certain things get 'nerfed' every few months which simply changes what the new "OP system" is. I believe that the way it is currently is pretty decent at getting a balance and that each side must simply play to its strengths. Mainly, Blues have the advantage at high level bombing with much better bomb sights and more bombs to hit the target, so they should do that. Reds are kind of forced to commit to low bombing raids so they should just get good at it and try to hit as many targets in a single run as they can to make the trip worth it.

For a good illustration of the problems, I’ll observe that a small core of Blue fliers was flying every night concentrating on killing Red targets and ignoring dogfights as much as possible. Through several week of hard work we managed to roll the map successfully fairly regularly. During this period, the Red players hardly ever attacked targets, and were instead shooting down every Blue AI plane they could find. The result of our effort was that we accumulated over 1,300 campaign points. Apparently the Red leadership must have decided enough was enough, and exhorted the Red players to concentrate on targets. In less than one day, the Red players turned the map at least 8 times...when I joined that night the Blue points had dropped from over 1,300, to under 500, and within a couple more days, Red was several hundred points ahead. At the same time, Red AI patrol aircraft appeared to double. Where originally they were spawning in at 8,000 meters, and Blue aircraft were able to stay under the radar all the way to target, now at least half the Red AI patrols are at 2,000. meters and below. It is now almost impossible to make it all the way to a target without being intercepted. When this happens with a BF-109 sortie, at least we can try to outrun the AI, or in the worst case, try to fight it out with them.

It wasn't so much the Red leadership as the Reds in general going "wowa, we are WAY behind". The gap closed through 6 or 7 people constantly bombing for about a week, and now we have 3 or 4 players who bomb regularly every week. As far as the number of red patrols. I keep the radar map up while I fly, and I can tell you from experience that the average red patrols for the entirety of England averages 2 or 3. Whereas the coast of France has 5-8 patrols plus 3 or 4 incoming raids. The screenshot below is what the server looks like with no players, all Red forces shown, and only what Red radar can see of the Blue.
https://i.imgur.com/AIHFr0T.png
As you can tell, there are MUCH more Blue aircraft in the air than Red. I would suggest flying with the radar open on another screen or with your game in pseudo mode so you can tab out to the radar map without your game getting scrunched into the top right corner forcing a restart. this way you can fly around the patrols, as it currently sounds like you are simply having a run of bad luck.

I’m pretty discouraged by all this, and I expect once this campaign is over I will not fly on TWC servers any more. You can say you are sacrificing Historical accuracy for Fairness, but in my mind this map is neither historically accurate nor fair.
Lastly, I’ll say again to those of you who will invariably say I’m a whiner: fly the other side for a change, and then I guarantee you’ll be the whiners.

I hope that your concerns can be addressed with more thought/coding on our part, and that we can continue to work together on improving the server and the game for the betterment of this small, but awesome community. I'll end the same way I started this post, in that I hope you understand I personally do not think you to be a whiner but rather to have constructive criticism. A long, and thought out, post voicing concerns is not complaining.

tldr;
I, nor anyone I have spoken to, considers you anything less than a good pilot and fun to fly against/with.
The server is made to making bombing more fair for bombers which makes a disparity between fighter bombers.
There are more Blue AI patrols and bombing raids than Red AI.
Red and Blue must play to their strengths or use their weakness to the best of their ability.
Red regaining the advantage was through the cooperation and diligence of many players.
I hope that future campaigns can find a better 'middle ground' to keep the game enjoyable for all parties involved. No changes are possible without individuals voicing their concerns.

I am saddened to hear you think you may stop flying with us as I would sorely miss getting shot down by you. I will be getting back to work on the historically accurate campaign that follows the push into France day by day and the BoB after the holidays. However I do not intend to change the way bombing is handled. I do intend, however, to try and make the Hurries and 109/B variants equal as the 88s and Blenies are, if possible. Again, it will take more thought/coding if it is.

9./JG52 gr00ve

Mar-15-2020, 07:44

Hi,

Lately there is so many warping going on the server. Both human players and ai's which makes game unplayable. It's not always like that, but it happens very frequently which wasn't the case.
Also, server is not as stable as it used to be. Yesterday (saturday 14/03), server crashed 4 times between 2pm-6pm CET.
Also we noticed our planes are magically disappearing from our stock. Example, 2 days ago we rolled map, we got stock replenished. we got like 5 top planes. No one flew them, later in same sortie we checked, there was none available.

Targets that don't get destroyed although they are 100% destroyed, player deaths that didn't happen, inability to spawn, inability to use any planes besides tyro rank planes although they are unlocked, internet disconnects and random game crashes that wipe out your career....too many bugs

I appreciate changes you do to make campaign better, but its bad idea to do changes in the middle of campaign. Make it stable and leave it so. Tweak it and improve it when campaign is over.

cheers
g.

Kendy for the State

Mar-15-2020, 11:09

To be fair, it has been stated that we're not in a campaign right now, it is officially "Server Testing". Also, missing planes could be someone flying a bomber and using them as escort. Maybe top planes shouldn't be on the list of available escort planes.

rontaila

Mar-15-2020, 13:26

Hi,
I flew yesterday He 111 and had no escorts available, except E1, G50, several variants of 110 and all types of bombing aircraft. In the last week the severity has fallen almost daily.:stunned:

Kendy for the State

Mar-15-2020, 14:13

Hi,
I flew yesterday He 111 and had no escorts available, except E1, G50, several variants of 110 and all types of bombing aircraft. In the last week the severity has fallen almost daily.:stunned:

If you go to the stats archive page you'll see that tremendous numbers of planes are being lost...
http://brenthugh.com/twc/training-server-stats-team.htm

Today's stats show a lot more red aircraft lost than blue, but other days it is way more blue.

TWC_Fatal_Error

Mar-15-2020, 15:59

The TWC server is still TESTING we have not started a campaign we are working on this every day so please note said problems and REPORT them.

Flug is doing his best and we have had no warping now for 3 days if you warp you look at your ping first then decide if it is you or some other source.

READ the briefing pages for target destruction or the official website @ https://www.twcpilots.com for for answers to your questions about how things work and why this thing is happening we also have a discord link you can follow to ask someone.

When the testing stops, we will announce our new campaign, thank you all for participating in the TEST as of this date.

FATAL

AKA_Blasto

Mar-15-2020, 17:21

S!~

Yes. Flew one late night sortie in a BF109E4/b. Blasted one Spit IIa. Landed perfect. Left game. Says now the plane was lost. Date. Sat. 3/14/20 eve. Something is off kilter. Our aircraft are showing lost after landing..why? Testing. I know. And it's fun. But suddenly things have been going sideways.

S!~ AKA_Blasto

Kendy for the State

Mar-15-2020, 22:09

DerDa

Mar-16-2020, 03:36

When we flew on sunday morning, we found out by chance that outside views were enabled (F2).

rontaila

Mar-16-2020, 04:12

Hi,
I do not want to minimize the work of those who created this campaign, all the respect for the time and effort, I pointed out some things that I think should be corrected, otherwise thank you for hosting.:salute:

TWC_Fatal_Error

Mar-16-2020, 04:41

we have asked and I will again ask please use the in game chat when you see warping and type the word warp this helps us determine within the code to where this is happening and leaves us a marker as to close to when as possible when you see it so we can look for the culprit thank you Fatal

9./JG52 gr00ve

Mar-16-2020, 12:21

Fatal, every plane we land disappears. It doesn't go back to stock. Look at our stock, it's basically empty...only planes that no one will ever fly are left. there is no way blue side could wreck all these planes in 2 days. On top of that we get career wipe when exiting plane.
im sure you guys are trying to fix this game breaking bug, but in meantime, give us our planes back, otherwise we wont be able to win this TEST, or test at all... :devilish:

Kendy for the State

Mar-16-2020, 14:34

TWC_Fatal_Error

Mar-16-2020, 17:50

doing my best guys <S> and kendy just if you see it warping text chat line warp but dont hit enter until it does it again, this gets us as close in milliseconds that we can. Thanks Fatal <S>

zmeytee

Mar-17-2020, 00:16

Too many bots! No game for real virpils((

TWC_Fatal_Error

Mar-19-2020, 07:14

Nasty problem we are trying to solve

Our server is experiencing a nasty bug that is making pilots hard earned career be reset and killing pilots for no reason....

So during this next set of testing please if this happens do the following:

I want you to watch your career look for deaths on the campaign server that only happen when you change planes on the ground and gives you the 3 min penalty if it happens to you then type in the chat window the capital letters "ZZZ" this lets us know when this happened so we can try and run this bug down please your assistance in this would be most helpful <S> Fatal

Also if you experience any warping and your ping is good 250 or less type "WARP" in the chat window again <S> Fatal

Kendy for the State

Mar-19-2020, 10:57

TWC_Birdtail

Mar-19-2020, 11:21

This being killed without career lost or restrictions was happening for me for a few days up until the morning of Wed. Mar 19th when I logged in I was a back to a tyro.

AKA_Blasto

Mar-19-2020, 22:41

S!~

In all honesty - Birdtail you were leading the entire campaign testing- and I have to say- impressive. I hope you didn't get tyro'd because of some server glitch- but alas.
Which brings me to the fact that I also have been killed twice- with no apparent repercussions- other than simulated distress. Once around 200 kills or so- and now last night from flak near Dover. Both times I kept my persona- but the first time I was actually unaware of it- and waited 3 min- and flew some old -bucket pseudo- fighter back into battle- the killed sim pilot that I was. But no! He lives ( or does he ) - and I ducked my head- fought it out for another week or so- and again- blam. Deads-ville. AAA. But no! He lives -barely .
Wait - theres more! Someone informs me of outside views- flybys and pad-lock on enemy- etc … which most of us knew nothing about. Assuredly used against those unsuspecting full real pilots. That said- the comprehensive stats are great. They show how much one has suffered - flown to hell and back- and been just shot up by everybody and everything. Many sorties- much fun. Good times. They also show how much pain we've dished out- and don't get me using padlock- outside views- flyby - and whatever else some guys are using- it just wont be fair- for you.

Respectfully

AKA_Blasto S!~_//

http://brenthugh.com/twc/training-server-stats.htm

TWC_Fatal_Error

Mar-20-2020, 07:20

fly bys outside views padlock all supposed to be disabled ! Now I have to look deeper thanks Blasto for the input.

Baffin

Mar-20-2020, 10:04

Scorekeeping is important, especially for new players. While all the new features are nice, we need to remember that this is still a video game. No scores, no game.

Renewed emphasis needs to be placed on the fundamentals of the application: what we see, what we hear, and player feedback. Tactics and strategy can be delayed until everything works the way it should.

Baffin

Mar-20-2020, 10:10

I have assigned the text "Warp" into a voice activated command (VAC). This is the fastest way I could come up with to instantly report rubber banding in a "Hands Off" manner. Of course, since I set VAC up for this, I have not seen any warping at all.

Ergo, if you set VAC up like this, you will have no warping! PROBLEM SOLVED! :D

"ZZZZ" can wait for keyboard input when it occurs. :pcguy:

DerDa

Mar-20-2020, 13:53

fly bys outside views padlock all supposed to be disabled ! Now I have to look deeper thanks Blasto for the input.

Thank YOU and your team mates for all the work you do to give us a good time!

9./JG52 gr00ve

Mar-22-2020, 09:48

for the past 2 days we are not experiencing player death bug anymore, but our planes still don't go back to stock after landing. Even when you try to spawn in plane you are restricted to, that plane don't go back to stock either.
And i noticed we don't get that message "player landed and left aircraft" anymore.

S!
groove

DerDa

Mar-22-2020, 13:24

Outside views (F2) were on this morning.
Otherwise it worked fine, except lot of planes were not available.

TWC_Fatal_Error

Mar-22-2020, 17:13

ty gentlemen working on it

TWC_Flug

Mar-24-2020, 17:22

Thanks for the reports.

FYI all the reports listed above (Death Bug, Career Loss, aircraft not returned to stock, etc) are related to the same issue and/or recent attempts to remedy it.

I agree with Baffin that basic stats & scoring like this are the most basic, essential part of any server, and it's not much fun to play if they are inaccurate or bugged.

On the other hand, you know that we have been making many, many changes and updates to the server and testing them.

But the place where this bug occurs is a place that has had no changes or updates for years. I cannot explain at all why this bug recently surfaced, because literally this is one of the few spots in the code that has not had ANY recent changes. I don't know if the bug is something that has been caused by a recent TF update, a (strange/bizarre/inexplicable) side effect of some other recent server changes, or maybe it's always been there but it just happened so rarely no on really noticed it consistently enough to report it.

I've been dabbling in CloD server programming for 3-4 years now and this is by far the most insidious bug I have seen. And, I've seen some insidious ones. The way CloD server programming works, first of all you're poking and prodding at a Mystery Machine that has no particular documentation and that no one really fully understands. And then on top of it you can't run any of your usual debugging tools. So it is difficult at the best of times and this is not the best of times.

FYI the issue now seems to be that CloD is reporting your speed as somewhere in the hundreds of MPH or km/h and/or your altitude as well off the ground, when in fact you are on the ground at rest. One of the first things we had to crack when we rolled out the server stats is how to figure out when a pilot had crashed vs had a nice landing. By the time CloD reports to the server that you're exiting the plane after a crash or nice landing, you are at a complete standstill and (usually) on the ground. So the server records the last few seconds of your activity to determine if you have been sitting there on the airport at at standstill the whole time or where going 300MPH and then suddenly came to a standstill.

So I worked all that out and tested it thoroughly years ago and it has been working fine ever since.

Now it's not.

TWC_Flug

Mar-24-2020, 17:24

FYI here is the update post on this issue from https://forums.twcpilots.com/showthread.php?tid=197 :

Thanks for everyone who has reported the death bug/loss of career bug. This is where the game suddenly announces that you are dead/lost your career/have a death timeout when you have just landed nicely or even just spawned in & out without doing anything.

If this happens to you, please type ZZZ into the chat window--this really helps me to track down the cause of the bug.

This has been a very, very hard bug to track down and fix because I can't replicate it at all and it seems to happen pretty infrequently and with no pattern I've been able to figure out. So typing in those XXXs into chat really will help.

It's happened to be twice recently and those have allowed me to make the most progress on fixing the problem, because I knew exactly when it happened and what I was doing, and was therefore able to narrow things down quite a bit by looking at the server logs.

I've put in a lot more debug messages into the log to narrow down exactly where it's happening in the code (one of the difficulties in bug fixing with CloD is you can't run it in a dev environment or do real debugging, because it's running within the game, which is proprietary etc. So we're back to 1980s-era debugging practices--luckily the ones I'm most familiar with anyway!)

FYI the possible causes I previous identified either were not the cause or at least, not the full cause. They may have caused some incidences of the bug, but certainly not all.

What I have it narrowed down to now is, somehow the server thinks you are either going a fast speed, like over 130mph and/or at a high AGL or 20 feet off the ground, and/or a high vertical speed, like over 2000 fpm/12mps. Even though in fact you are sitting on the ground at full stop.

So I'm not sure if this is a game bug or something new in a recent CloD version or maybe a transient reading that happens for a millisecond when you jump out of an aircraft and ai takes over, or just what.

But regardless it's bizarre and I haven't really "caught it in the act" yet to fully understand what is going on at that moment. I do have it narrowed down to a couple dozen lines of code where the problem is definitely happening, so that is helpful.

Also I have debug info being recorded through those lines of code now, so I can pretty much tell what's going on line by line (though, not within the CLoD code that is probably the ultimate cause of the problem. We'll have to work around, not fix, whatever is going on there.)

FYI!

- FYI one of my first attempts at fixing the Death Bug instead broke the Supply "return aircraft when player exits" function. Now that is fixed, aircraft are being returned to supply OK now, and my best guess at a fix to the Death Bug is in place instead.

However, I still haven't caught the Death Bug in action (since putting in the enhanced debug tracing in place that should allow me to figure out exactly what is going on). So the fix is just a guess and I'm not 100% sure it will work.

Update March 26th: Another update to the fix is in place. It records even more detail about what is happening just before you're marked as dead, so it should be more helpful.

So please keep marking those ZZZs if & when the problem happens.

By the way, the problem happens at the end of a flight or when you exit an aircraft. You probably don't notice it until next time you start a new flight (perhaps the next day?). Unfortunately it doesn't help that much to know "Death bug happened to me 14 hours ago." Still, ZZZ whenever you notice it--just the sooner you notice, the more helpful.

TWC_Flug

Mar-24-2020, 19:21

Also FYI I've probably put 20-40 hours already just into trying to squash this bug.

The previous upgrade work I've been doing is when I had some time to spend. But right now I dont' really have any time or energy to put into, particularly not with our current CV19 crisis, etc, which is unfortunately directly affecting my job as well as other things.

So squashing this bizarro bug that has suddenly sprung up out of nowhere and due to no particular changes we have made, unfortunately has to happen in bits & spurts whenever I have a little time to work on it.

DerDa

Mar-25-2020, 02:47

TWC_Flug

Apr-29-2020, 02:24

FYI I pulled the trigger . . . the TWC Campaign Server 113 Days Campaign is officially off and running.

All stats, all ranks, all objectives, all aircraft stock levels, all front lines reset.

The campaign will run for 113 Days--just as the actual Battle of Britain did (https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057%2F9781137316264_3)--OR until one side pushes the other off of the map OR until Team Fusion release TF 5.0/Tobruck.

Whichever comes first!

I left everyone signed up for whichever side you have been signed up for - Blue or Red. However, if you would like to switch sides, now if the time. Just ask Fatal or me in a private message or on this thread. (I feel like Blue could probably use some more help, so I would encourage a few people to move in that direction if you would like to.)
Outside views are turned off.
Extensive help, instructions, how-tos, etc etc at the TWC Forums (https://forums.twcpilots.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=26) (you'll need to register to view) and also in the Mission Briefing online when you log in to the multiplayer server (TWC CAMPAIGN SERVER).
Over the past week or two I've uploaded a bunch of fixes for issues we've been discussing on the forums and that you have reported (aircraft being lost, parachute pilots been killed, etc). Also I got the weather working a lot better--you've probably noticed that. Tweaked airports and particularly air spawns for each side. I'll try to post a more comprehensive summary in a separate post when I get time, but generally I think it is pretty good shape to run now.
Note that a "TWC PRACTICE/TEST CAMPAIGN SERVER" is running also. In that server you can try different aircraft (no rank restrictions), use outside views to help, crashing or losing planes has not great consequence, and generally experiment or try things before doing them "for real" in the TWC Campaign Server.

Good luck! May the best Air Force win!

P.S. Many thanks to everyone here for reporting various bugs & problems. I hope most of them are solved but if there are any more please do keep reporting them.