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Kling
Feb-28-2013, 23:14
I did see some threads about this earlier but cannot find it now... so my appologizes if this has been discussed already.

Currently when your planes takes hits you can see the damage you have recieved in the chatbar.. Currently orange text by deafult.
Will TF look into removing this possibility or maybe set it so its a server setting?

I know i can personally remove it myself, but that dosnt mean everyone else will do it ;)
This should clearly be a server setting and I think ATAG, being a "full switch" server should set the standard by having "damage info" text disabled :)

Any thoughts on this?

Best regards

ATAG_Lolsav
Feb-28-2013, 23:33
As it is configured on ATAG server you can only see the dammage you made if you kill your opponent. It doesnt tell you if you made a specific dammage.

Alice
Feb-28-2013, 23:53
I could do without the red/orange in-game text, but I like the after-sortie stats more than the overalls.

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 00:15
Im talking about the red/orange text that tells you what damage you have recieved. I dont mind the stats at the end of the sortie but the orange text in the chatbar is highly unrealistic and is one of the most arcadic parts of the game... :(

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 00:16
As it is configured on ATAG server you can only see the dammage you made if you kill your opponent. It doesnt tell you if you made a specific dammage.

No idea what you are talking about Lolsav... Read my post again ;)

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-01-2013, 00:54
Well i tought you couldnt be talking about the windows/info messages, because those are alredy available to custom by anyone...

See here for instance: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?694-InGame-Message-Windows-Setups

Is that it?

Injerin
Mar-01-2013, 00:58
I really don't see the advantage of people who have this turned on. I personally have it off due to screen clutter. Even if I had it turned on it wouldn't make a difference to me. I usually just feel the plane out while damaged :)

SG1_sandokito
Mar-01-2013, 01:13
If you like, you can disable all windows.
I some time disable all windows except chat, and is very inmersive.

Sorry for my english.

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 04:18
Well i tought you couldnt be talking about the windows/info messages, because those are alredy available to custom by anyone...

See here for instance: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?694-InGame-Message-Windows-Setups

Is that it?


Thats exactly my point, as i clearly say in my first post im talking about the orange text that is there by default. I know that one can switch it off but it should be OFF as a server setting. I can switch mine off but if my enemy has it on then He knows what damage i have made to him. Thats unrealistic. It should not be there at all on a full switch server is my opinion...

Osprey
Mar-01-2013, 04:26
I agree with Kling. This is the ultimate in 'full switch' and would be great to force upon the client. I also would not want to see what I did to the enemy nor if I even got him at all, that would leave interpretation down to flight reports supplied back to command - this would bring in the 'fog of war' for SEOW type campaigns, such as the trial one presently running on ACG Server on Sundays.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-01-2013, 04:45
I agree with Kling. This is the ultimate in 'full switch' and would be great to force upon the client. I also would not want to see what I did to the enemy nor if I even got him at all, that would leave interpretation down to flight reports supplied back to command - this would bring in the 'fog of war' for SEOW type campaigns, such as the trial one presently running on ACG Server on Sundays.

Yes. I don't use the damage reports whilst flying.

I can see the value of ATAG's post-flight damage report. It helps to clarify some of the mis-information that pilots put into their own heads about how awesome their shooting is.

However, neither is historical. In a full switch server I like the idea that pilots should not really know if their opponent is damaged, or destroyed.
In some respects I'd even like to consider the following, getting more controversial as you go down the list....

1. No notification at all of whether your own aircraft is damaged in flight
2. A report after flight ONLY of the damage your own aircraft took (i.e. from the ground crew)
3. No in-flight OR post-flight reports about damage to enemy aircraft
4. No messages from the server when you shoot someone down...
5. No scores at all - or rather, scores which only update after you land.


I realise that the above would be against what most people expect from a game, and that's fine. But for me, playing under these conditions would be quite excellent.

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 04:48
Just to clarify. I dont mind if I am able to see what damage I have caused to other planes, AT THE END OF THE MISSION when Im back on the ground. This feature is already there but this is a ATAG feature not a CLOD feature.
I know that I can switch off the "damage info" in the chat bar. But why can I even have it on AT ALL in the first place?? Its a bit arcadish dont you think?
Some people say "if you dont like it then switch it off and you dont have to see it!" Well then the same argument goes for everything then...

"If you dont like external views, then switch yours off!"

But the issue is that everyone else still has theirs ON... So I lose something that others still have.

Well the thing is that others still have theirs ON, and if I shoot a Spitfire and he READS that he has radiator damage, he will turn home and I might not get the kill, BUT if he never READ that his radiator was damaged, he might never have noticed and might have stayed and fought and as a consiquence he would blow his engine and I would get a kill... You see my point?? + its very unrealistic to read what damage you have recieved. Everyone should be forced to look at their instruments after they have recieved hits and try to figure out if something vital was hit.

Damage info should be OFF for all until you are on the ground. Or at least this is my opinion of course...

So, TF is this possible as a server setting??

Best regards

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 04:53
Yes. I don't use the damage reports whilst flying.

I can see the value of ATAG's post-flight damage report. It helps to clarify some of the mis-information that pilots put into their own heads about how awesome their shooting is.

However, neither is historical. In a full switch server I like the idea that pilots should not really know if their opponent is damaged, or destroyed.
In some respects I'd even like to consider the following, getting more controversial as you go down the list....

1. No notification at all of whether your own aircraft is damaged in flight
2. A report after flight ONLY of the damage your own aircraft took (i.e. from the ground crew)
3. No in-flight OR post-flight reports about damage to enemy aircraft
4. No messages from the server when you shoot someone down...
5. No scores at all - or rather, scores which only update after you land.


I realise that the above would be against what most people expect from a game, and that's fine. But for me, playing under these conditions would be quite excellent.

Nice list!!

+1

I like them all except nr 3 which i personally would modify to "No in-flight reports about damage to enemy aircraft" as I think it could be fun to read AFTER you have landed what damage you caused to someone...

Mysticpuma
Mar-01-2013, 10:56
I approve of the above post and included quote. Nice list, suggestions and ideas.
Cheers, MP

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-01-2013, 11:34
I only can think of one reason to counter the list of Philstyle. It is assumed ATAG is a full realistic server on his statement, while we all know that is not completely true. It is a cockpit only server where you have to control all the CEM, but its not historically based missions. It is a RED vs BLUE server with the weapons of 1940.

And i dont know if that philosophy is going to change, since it has so much sucess since it has started. Personally, i like it the way it is, and i wouldnt want features installed that would possibly drive ppl away. We need the opposite, to conquer audience to CLOD. Then it is possible to think of specific audience targets, and set up server 2 for those purposes, for instance. But the latest experience on server 2 tells me im right. ATAG members do know what i am talking about, i guess.

S!

VO101_Tom
Mar-01-2013, 11:53
Hi. The only arguments against is the limits of the current clod (current PC simulations). Simply you don't get the same feedback, the same seen and felt damage-feedback than in the RL. You won't smell the burning things, don't see smoke in the cocpit, dont feel the shake of the plane, or the control, etc. Not to mention the data loss, it happen many times that you don't hear not only the enemy gun, but your own damage either. Only suddenly, silently got the damage messages.

I think, the same with the analog engine info icons. It's unreal, because there is no small icons in RL either :D, but you feel the throttle, you feel the controls in RL without having to look down, so you got many many feedback which is impossible in a PC game...

I agree, this is far from perfect, but better than no info at all - IMHO.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-01-2013, 12:16
I only can think of one reason to counter the list of Philstyle. It is assumed ATAG is a full realistic server on his statement


No such assumption is made.
In a full switch server I like the idea...

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-01-2013, 12:17
Hi. The only arguments against is the limits of the current clod (current PC simulations). Simply you don't get the same feedback, the same seen and felt damage-feedback than in the RL. You won't smell the burning things, don't see smoke in the cocpit, dont feel the shake of the plane, or the control, etc. Not to mention the data loss, it happen many times that you don't hear not only the enemy gun, but your own damage either. Only suddenly, silently got the damage messages...I agree, this is far from perfect, but better than no info at all - IMHO.

This is true. Such lack of real-world feedback through other senses is a limitation.

Little_D
Mar-01-2013, 12:37
However, neither is historical. In a full switch server I like the idea that pilots should not really know if their opponent is damaged, or destroyed.
In some respects I'd even like to consider the following, getting more controversial as you go down the list....

1. No notification at all of whether your own aircraft is damaged in flight
2. A report after flight ONLY of the damage your own aircraft took (i.e. from the ground crew)
3. No in-flight OR post-flight reports about damage to enemy aircraft
4. No messages from the server when you shoot someone down...
5. - or rather, scores which only update after you land.


I realise that the above would be against what most people expect from a game, and that's fine. But for me, playing under these conditions would be quite excellent.

Hi 92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P),

to nr. 1 - 4: 100% :thumbsup:
to nr. 5: 100% and that ounly counts for landed kills/destroyed groundtargets + stats that only show landed kills/destroyed groundtargets and get set to 0 every month so you can start the gratest hunt you can have, hunt your own stats, get more landed kills, better kill/death ration than the last month. :thumbsup:

would be nice and a dream

regards

Little_D

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-01-2013, 12:46
No such assumption is made.
In a full switch server I like the idea...

Im sorry, im not a natural born english speaker and i guess i lost that part in translation. I guess my point goes along with what Tom wrote and you, Philstyle, agreed upon.




Hi. The only arguments against is the limits of the current clod (current PC simulations). Simply you don't get the same feedback, the same seen and felt damage-feedback than in the RL.

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 12:49
Hi. The only arguments against is the limits of the current clod (current PC simulations). Simply you don't get the same feedback, the same seen and felt damage-feedback than in the RL. You won't smell the burning things, don't see smoke in the cocpit, dont feel the shake of the plane, or the control, etc. Not to mention the data loss, it happen many times that you don't hear not only the enemy gun, but your own damage either. Only suddenly, silently got the damage messages.

I think, the same with the analog engine info icons. It's unreal, because there is no small icons in RL either :D, but you feel the throttle, you feel the controls in RL without having to look down, so you got many many feedback which is impossible in a PC game...

I agree, this is far from perfect, but better than no info at all - IMHO.

Which other war flightsim had a HUD telling you what damage you have recieved?!
Il2 1946 with all its success never had this feature not even on the arcadish servers. The feedback there was not better and noone ever complained about lack of feedback.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-01-2013, 12:54
to nr. 5: 100% and that ounly counts for landed kills/destroyed groundtargets + stats that only show landed kills/destroyed groundtargets and get set to 0 every month so you can start the gratest hunt you can have, hunt your own stats, get more landed kills, better kill/death ration than the last month. :thumbsup:


Servus Little_D!

Yes!
And I like the old IL2 system. If you die, you only get 10% of your points.
That was a good system I think.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-01-2013, 12:54
Im sorry, im not a natural born english speaker and i guess i lost that part in translation. I guess my point goes along with what Tom wrote and you, Philstyle, agreed upon.

No problem :salute:

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 12:56
Hi 92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P),

to nr. 1 - 4: 100% :thumbsup:
to nr. 5: 100% and that ounly counts for landed kills/destroyed groundtargets + stats that only show landed kills/destroyed groundtargets and get set to 0 every month so you can start the gratest hunt you can have, hunt your own stats, get more landed kills, better kill/death ration than the last month. :thumbsup:

would be nice and a dream

regards

Little_D

Reminds me of good old Warclouds server on il2 1946. It was a great server with a great stats system exactly like this.
Also in Il2 you only got the points for your kill if you manage to land at any home base.
If killed you only got 10% of the points and if you bailed out got half i think.
How cool would it now be to be able to have search. And rescue missionss in the future where you could land and "pick up" a downed team member... But thats another topic.. ;)

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-01-2013, 13:11
How cool would it now be to be able to have search. And rescue missionss in the future where you could land and "pick up" a downed team member... But thats another topic.. ;)

Oh, wow, and if you pick him up, he get's 50% of his score, and you get the rest ;)

Kling
Mar-01-2013, 13:26
Oh, wow, and if you pick him up, he get's 50% of his score, and you get the rest ;)

Hehe yes!

VO101_Tom
Mar-01-2013, 15:05
Which other war flightsim had a HUD telling you what damage you have recieved?!
Il2 1946 with all its success never had this feature not even on the arcadish servers. The feedback there was not better and noone ever complained about lack of feedback.

Hi. We don't complaining about the lack of damage info, because the il-2 was less complex game. But it existed! Mixed with the plane controls info and server messages, you get: engine overheat, flap damage, weapon damage, gear damage, engine stopped, out of fuel, out of ammo, lost wing, pilot kill, wep on/off etc. messages. IIRC the Warclouds server disabled the server messages only, not the aircraft messages.

If we discuss what is realistic, we run into (again) the limitations of the PC game. I think that is NOT realistic, that you don't get any message, even if you landed. In RL, if the ground crew inspected the plane, they tells you what system damaged, what was the problem of the engine, etc. So, the detailed damage report (you own plane) after landing is improve the Realism. IMHO.

I have already explained my opinion about inflight messages. If we get little more info than in RL, this is far better than no info at all.
It would be the best, if the someone can modified the damage decal texts (i don't know this is possible or not), so you don't get "compressor failure" message, you got "DAMAGE - engine, left side" message. This give you the info what usually you got in RL, but don't tell the exact failure. The detailed list you got IF you landed at home.

SlipBall
Mar-01-2013, 15:18
I fly with it off lately all messages, I'm not much of a reader even when its on most times ...I just put my GTX 560 2GB on E-bay for 0.99, now that I will read :D

Osprey
Mar-01-2013, 16:00
Servus Little_D!

Yes!
And I like the old IL2 system. If you die, you only get 10% of your points.
That was a good system I think.


It's a poor system. It means you can't use the system for competition and doesn't encourage realistic behaviour. Too much to write to explain it here, happy to explain on comms. Suffice it to say that for the USL we had to write a completely new system.

1lokos
Mar-02-2013, 08:10
1. No notification at all of whether your own aircraft is damaged in flight
2. A report after flight ONLY of the damage your own aircraft took (i.e. from the ground crew)
3. No in-flight OR post-flight reports about damage to enemy aircraft
4. No messages from the server when you shoot someone down...
5. No scores at all - or rather, scores which only update after you land.



6. Not show in NET Stats what planes the other side are flying. :)

Sokol1

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-02-2013, 12:51
6. Not show in NET Stats what planes the other side are flying. :)
Sokol1

yes! player name and score only - not their aircraft. Great idea!

Osprey
Mar-05-2013, 12:01
Along with an easy way to read the rows, and to get to page two!