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Salmo
Mar-21-2013, 06:44
Announcing a new battle, Operation Waterfall. This is an early ship convoy attack/defend BOB scenario.

1. Battle Objectives:
Blue mission: Ship convoy in Thames Estuary, attack convoy. Red mission: defend convoy. Score 3,000 points to win, all enemy objects are targets & attract points.

2. Dynamic Ai plane numbers.
The fewer players in the battle, the more frequently Ai flights will spawn & vice-versa. Ai flights at all altitudes, especially 20,000ft+.

3. Continiously moving vehicles.
Vehicles move back & forth on their waypoints continually until destroyed. Vehicles are often found around airfields, but could be anywhere ie in towns, along roadways between towns etc.

4. Upgradable airbases.
All airbases begin the battle with a basic (early BOB) planeset. Planes are 'upgraded' as the battle progresses, so for example, a base with a Bf109E-1 may upgrade to having a Bf109E-3, Spitfire Mk1's may upgrade to Spitfire Mk1a's & so on. Airbase upgrades are announced on the HUD screen as they occur.

5. Random AA units at airfields.
Airfields have random AA defences generated on battle start. Some airfields may have few AA defences, others may have more defences. Because the AA units are generated at random, airfield defences will be different every time the battle starts up.

6. Dynamic airbase AA defences. Airbase commanders at frequently attacked airfields will regularly call-in additional AA defences. So frequently attacked airfields tend to become more defended over time. Airbase AA additions are announced on the HUD screen as they occur.

7. Custom in-game stats.
Includes kill counts & airforce personel losses ie. KIA's MIA's, POW's etc.

8. Radars & ground observers.
Allies have working chain high & chain low radars & ground observers. Axis have Freya radar. Enemy air contacts are called out & plotted as icons on the mini-map showing their altitude. Chain radars are quite accurate, Freya radar will not always call out contacts, this is to simulate the 'uncoordinated' air defence methodology of the Luftwafe.

9. Destroyable airfields.
Airfields can be 'bombed' out of action. The amount of bombs it takes to destroy an airfield is proportional to the airfield size, so it takes more bombs to destroy a larger airfield than a smaller one. The level of destruction of an airfield is shown in the HUD display when an airfield is bombed. Spawn locations at airfields are lost when the airfield is destroyed & destroyed airfields do not repair themselves.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-21-2013, 08:02
So grateful for your work Salmo!

Looking forward to flying this one.

Katdog5
Mar-21-2013, 08:16
http://www.funnycutepics.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/20120821-174148.jpg

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-21-2013, 09:21
Brilliant! Looking forward to this in the rotation!

ATAG_Septic
Mar-21-2013, 09:24
So grateful for your work Salmo!

Looking forward to flying this one.

What Pstyle said, plus when? :thumbsup:

Septic.

coolhand3011
Mar-21-2013, 09:49
Sounds great Salmo, thanks for putting in all that work! I can't wait to try it out.

ATAG_Naz
Mar-21-2013, 09:57
Oh man, I can't wait to fight in this world. Superb work Salmo!

:salute:

Mattias
Mar-21-2013, 10:00
9. Destroyable airfields.
Airfields can be 'bombed' out of action. The amount of bombs it takes to destroy an airfield is proportional to the airfield size, so it takes more bombs to destroy a larger airfield than a smaller one. The level of destruction of an airfield is shown in the HUD display when an airfield is bombed. Spawn locations at airfields are lost when the airfield is destroyed & destroyed airfields do not repair themselves.

Mmmmm :nnbb:

Salmo
Mar-21-2013, 21:27
There are reports that players couldn't join the battle, and the network wouldn't stream any data either.

1. I've removed most of the weather & left just a few stock clouds.
2. I've reduced the number of static objects & moving vehicles.

The battle has been resubmitted for testing on ATAG server2. Please report significant issues.

Cassius
Mar-22-2013, 02:19
Great! Translated and post it on Sukhoi http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68538&page=21&p=1980350&viewfull=1#post1980350
:thumbsup:

Torric270
Mar-22-2013, 16:12
Is this mission running currently, or any mission? Just went in to check it out, no briefing, no server messages, no mission pullup etc.

There were only 2 111s and 1 09E when I signed on...09 was shot down by bofors 30 min into it...that was the only message for the entire flight. Flew to ramsgate, saw the beaufighters, bombed them, saw I12 radar was up, flew towards london and did not see any ships.

Btw external view is still enabled.

Mission is labled overflow for server one, but nothing going on that I could see.

Thanks!

Salmo
Mar-23-2013, 05:12
Is this mission running currently, or any mission? Just went in to check it out, no briefing, no server messages, no mission pullup etc.

There were only 2 111s and 1 09E when I signed on...09 was shot down by bofors 30 min into it...that was the only message for the entire flight. Flew to ramsgate, saw the beaufighters, bombed them, saw I12 radar was up, flew towards london and did not see any ships.

Btw external view is still enabled.

Mission is labled overflow for server one, but nothing going on that I could see.

Thanks!

Interesting post Torric. Sounds like the server was down?

Firstly, I have no beaufighters in the Operation Waterfall mission. Secondly, there are moving ships in the Thames estuary east of Sheppey Island & in the Channel. The Thames Estuary convoy is quite large, about 15-18 ships iirc, and many are armed so you'd see flak if you were closeby. Thirdly, the target ship convoy can be located using the custom menu feature TAB-4-2-2

ATAG_Bliss
Mar-23-2013, 05:55
Yep - a lighter version has been put up because of earlier problems. It's on both servers rotations.

Edit: Had to remove again.. Scripting errors were happening so fast I couldn't read the console.

Salmo
Mar-25-2013, 20:06
Yep - a lighter version has been put up because of earlier problems. It's on both servers rotations.

Edit: Had to remove again.. Scripting errors were happening so fast I couldn't read the console.

An new battle version (v1.1) has been submitted to ATAG.

Additional features:

1. Ai skill level
Each pilot in an Ai flight now has randomised skill levels. The 'easy' kill on the right side of the formation last time may turn out to be an Ace next time. Be careful.

2. Fuel level
Ai flights now take randomised fuel levels. Fuel levels are between 50% and 100%.

Salmo
Apr-02-2013, 00:15
Bad news I'm afraid. It seems that the scripted elements in this battle put too much stress on the game net-code & the battle grinds to a halt with any more than about 30-40 players. The battle will not be in the ATAG mission rotations for this reason.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Apr-02-2013, 04:56
Bad news I'm afraid. It seems that the scripted elements in this battle put too much stress on the game net-code & the battle grinds to a halt with any more than about 30-40 players. The battle will not be in the ATAG mission rotations for this reason.

what a shame.

ATAG_Naz
Apr-02-2013, 05:18
Damn shame mate. Hopefully in the future if TF are able to work on the net code, fingers crossed. Thanks for the efforts Salmo.

Katdog5
Apr-02-2013, 09:49
Bad news I'm afraid. It seems that the scripted elements in this battle put too much stress on the game net-code & the battle grinds to a halt with any more than about 30-40 players. The battle will not be in the ATAG mission rotations for this reason.

Surely not unexpected though, we're testing the boundaries of what is possible with 100 pilots online. Add AI and models to that...who knows. Even some offline missions can grind almost any system to a hault. (heinkill london area)

I recall this would happen in il2 also if we tried to do too much. Cant hurt trying and figuring out what is going on. what works/what doesn't

thanks for the effort

Idea: Personally I think our best bet for new missions is to use slight variations in the tested mission that is the mainstay on the server now. We could move the current objectives up the thames, or west down the coast etc. ) We know it works, just move it around.

ATAG_Lolsav
Apr-02-2013, 12:14
Salmo im sorry about those news. But can i ask you to try something diffrent? To my knowledge the problem is having too many things going on at same time, what stresses the server. But why not to break the side missions into their own missions, and with the loading of the next mission being dependent of the result of the previous one? That used to be possible in IL2, so i guess its more or less the same with Cliffs of Dover.

Example: Red wins ---> Outcome: Blue cannot fly E4N. Blue wins ---> Outcome: Spit IIA is removed ---> so on.

A penalty on the ride could be incentive to fly to achieve the objectives of the mission.

ATAG_Ribbs
Apr-03-2013, 02:06
Salmo im sorry about those news. But can i ask you to try something diffrent? To my knowledge the problem is having too many things going on at same time, what stresses the server. But why not to break the side missions into their own missions, and with the loading of the next mission being dependent of the result of the previous one? That used to be possible in IL2, so i guess its more or less the same with Cliffs of Dover.

Example: Red wins ---> Outcome: Blue cannot fly E4N. Blue wins ---> Outcome: Spit IIA is remove.d ---> so on..

A penalty on the ride could be incentive to fly to achieve the objectives of the mission.


Or institute all the features your trying to use one at a time and see how the server reacts..
Like making a mission with your supply system... then if all goes well implement the moving front line ...and so on..till you figure out what is possible with the net code...just my 2 cents. S!

310_cibule
Apr-03-2013, 04:03
Or institute all the features your trying to use one at a time and see how the server reacts..
Like making a mission with your supply system... then if all goes well implement the moving front line ...and so on..till you figure out what is possible with the net code...just my 2 cents. S!

+1


My squadron's mate makes missions too and ask me to present a question here (for he doesn't speak English). How do you make AI fly all time long? His AIs return home after some half an hour and leave the area deserted.

Salmo
Apr-03-2013, 04:26
+1


My squadron's mate makes missions too and ask me to present a question here (for he doesn't speak English). How do you make AI fly all time long? His AIs return home after some half an hour and leave the area deserted.

You can schedule when to start another Ai filght in the OnTickGame script event. Something like this:



public override void OnTickGame()
{
base.OnTickGame();
if (Time.tickCounter() % (32 * 60 * 15) == 0) // every 15 minutes
{
GamePlay.gpPostMissionLoad(MissionFileName); // load MissionFileName into the battle
}
}

310_cibule
Apr-03-2013, 07:55
Thx Salmo. Handed over

Oersted
Apr-10-2013, 04:06
I hope we'll at least see high-flying bombers with contrails in SOME of the missions in the rotation. Would be incredibly cool...

Salmo
Apr-26-2013, 01:39
After much tweaking, I now have a pre-release version 1.3 (prior to submission to ATAG) of Operation Waterfall running on the Nations@War server. It's been radically changed to better conform with ATAG mission requirements & (hopefully) to run more smoothly with large player numbers. Still includes these features:

1. Battle Objectives:
Blue mission: Ship convoy in Thames Estuary, attack convoy. Red mission: defend convoy. Blue win if they sink 16 ships, red win if they down 100 enemy aircraft.
2. Upgradable airbases.
All airbases begin the battle with a basic (early BOB) planeset. Planes are 'upgraded' as the battle progresses, so for example, a base with a Bf109E-1 may upgrade to having a Bf109E-3, Spitfire Mk1's may upgrade to Spitfire Mk1a's & so on. Airbase upgrades are announced on the HUD screen as they occur.
3. Random AA units at airfields.
Airfields have random AA defences generated on battle start. Some airfields may have few AA defences, others may have more defences. Because the AA units are generated at random, airfield defences will be different every time the battle starts up.
4. Dynamic airbase AA defences. Airbase commanders at frequently attacked airfields will regularly call-in additional AA defences. So frequently attacked airfields tend to become more defended over time. Airbase AA additions are announced on the HUD screen as they occur.
5. Random AI skills
AI flights have random skill levels, planes within flights have different skill levels. So a flight of say 9 bombers could be a mix of rookies, average, veteran & aces. Pilots & gunners have differing skill levels. Appoximately 30% rookies, 45% average, 20% veterans & 5% aces.

The main aim has been to reduce load time & ingame stutters & freezes. Please report if you have issues.

ATAG_Ribbs
Apr-26-2013, 02:31
Thanks very much salmon! Can't wait to try it out!! S!

ATAG_Septic
Apr-26-2013, 04:13
Thank-you Salmo,

I'll also give it some testing.:thumbsup:


Septic.

ATAG_Naz
Apr-26-2013, 06:47
Hey Salmo

I had a (very) quick run on the mission after work. I'm sorry I couldn't spend more time on it tonight to give you some better feedback, hopefully I'll be able to find some more time over the weekend.

Anyway, it ran really well on my machine, smooth and no different to ATAG. I was the only person in mission however, so not sure how useful that info is to you for now.

I spent most of my time hunting a lone Me 108 whom I presume was on recon (got some hits before I blew my Spit I engine :doh:)

I got a few of the Airbase upgrade messages so my AI compatriots were doing better than I was lol. Several radar reports of other enemy being tracked from the Channel as they approached the targets as well ...which added to the tension nicely. Reckon I would have had plenty of air targets to choose from had I not blown my engine.

I can see this mission being extremely fun to fly, particularly if the skies are populated with human pilots. Looking forward to giving it a go again when I have more time to really get stuck in .

Cheers mate
:salute:

ATAG_Septic
Apr-26-2013, 12:44
Hi Salmo,

A quick report with version 1.3.

I had to spawn several times because of problems my end. A launcher crash, which I suspect is associated with changing weapons loadouts and then to enable my second GPU as I was struggling a little with fps through the clouds. I noticed my discarded aircraft were still on the apron, engines running at high rpm. I took my third Hurricane from Biggin Hill (just becuase I could, it's great to see different airfields) and climbed out towards the Thames Estuary through thick clouds. There seemed plenty of AI population and the battle seemed to be playing itself out nicely all on its own. Clawing my way up over South Croyden had my now two GPUs working hard but it remained playable and looked great.

I had a steady 350ms ping and there were only four players on. I experienced only one stutter, which was contemporary with a server message and a few seconds later a player joining. I had no further stutters at all.

Having got the old kite up to angels 20 I resisted the temptation to ditch and take a sporty Spit1a 100 oct, which had just been delivered to Rochford and pressed on to patrol over the convoy. Contacts seemed to remain stubbornly at 15 miles so I decided to press on over the Channel. I reached the French Coast and started to attract some attention from AAA. The problem of seeing ground targets through clouds had me working hard to find something to bounce when I had a report of bombers at 5 miles distant. I couldn't figure out how I could have missed them. Then I found one, right on the deck, he was landing so I decided to kill him mercilessly for bombing our supplies of Figgy Duff on the ships. I swooped above him pouring lead into his now bent fusalage when all his mates who had already landed opened up and shot my aircraft full of holes. Justice?

It's great to fly a different mission and this looks brilliant but I can't help but worry how it will fare with eighty-odd players on, if it does it could be brilliant. So I hope as many as possible help with testing.

Thanks Salmo,

Septic.



After much tweaking, I now have a pre-release version 1.3 (prior to submission to ATAG) of Operation Waterfall running on the Nations@War server. It's been radically changed to better conform with ATAG mission requirements & (hopefully) to run more smoothly with large player numbers. Still includes these features:

1. Battle Objectives:
Blue mission: Ship convoy in Thames Estuary, attack convoy. Red mission: defend convoy. Blue win if they sink 16 ships, red win if they down 100 enemy aircraft.
2. Upgradable airbases.
All airbases begin the battle with a basic (early BOB) planeset. Planes are 'upgraded' as the battle progresses, so for example, a base with a Bf109E-1 may upgrade to having a Bf109E-3, Spitfire Mk1's may upgrade to Spitfire Mk1a's & so on. Airbase upgrades are announced on the HUD screen as they occur.
3. Random AA units at airfields.
Airfields have random AA defences generated on battle start. Some airfields may have few AA defences, others may have more defences. Because the AA units are generated at random, airfield defences will be different every time the battle starts up.
4. Dynamic airbase AA defences. Airbase commanders at frequently attacked airfields will regularly call-in additional AA defences. So frequently attacked airfields tend to become more defended over time. Airbase AA additions are announced on the HUD screen as they occur.
5. Random AI skills
AI flights have random skill levels, planes within flights have different skill levels. So a flight of say 9 bombers could be a mix of rookies, average, veteran & aces. Pilots & gunners have differing skill levels. Appoximately 30% rookies, 45% average, 20% veterans & 5% aces.

The main aim has been to reduce load time & ingame stutters & freezes. Please report if you have issues.

III./ZG76_Saipan
Apr-26-2013, 13:27
the c7s spawn on a hill, you cant move without crashing.

Dutch
Apr-26-2013, 13:49
Had one sortie just now, love the scenario, clouds, time of day etc. My ping was in the 400s, so took quite a long time to get into the server. Had one long pause/stutter prior to a voice message from 'Charlie' the controller announcing enemy a/c.

Red reached 100/100 planes destroyed while I was there, but the mission didn't end. This was with 2.5hrs remaining in the mission clock. Also, the one Heinkel I came across was incredibly fast, and when I first shot at it, it pulled straight up and went aerobatic. I was in a DH5-20, got the kill (flamer, very satisfying :D ).

Nice mission, really hope it works out this time. :thumbsup:

Bear Pilot
Apr-26-2013, 17:11
I also flew several sorties in Waterfall today and noticed some of the same things previously mentioned by Septic and Dutch. I didn't seem to cut into the 15 mile distance reported by "Charlie", I seemed to have a particular decrease in fps over France where the clouds were very thick. I did manage to find a vic of 111's headed back to France which seemed to be moving very quickly. I was in a 1a 100oct and finally caught up with them 3/4 of the way across. I'm not sure if they were going all that exceptionally fast or not, as I was below them when I spotted them and had to climb. However, just before going guns, one of them pulled the aforementioned acrobatic move and pulled up a few thousand feet or so and dove. I fly the 111 fairly often and I honestly don't know if planes can be made to do things that we as human pilots can't coerce them to do or if the AI pilot (I'm guessing set as an ace) is able to pull it off just as if it were a human ace (obviously not me). External views were still on but I suspect that's an easy fix and probably isn't news. As I left planes testing loadouts I noticed planes I had left on and left were behaving as Septic mentioned earlier.

I greatly enjoyed the map and hope these are all relatively easy fixes.

Happy Hunting

Bear Pilot

1lokos
Apr-26-2013, 19:48
Appoximately 30% rookies, 45% average, 20% veterans & 5% aces.

Is not the ACE skill for pilot is that make bombers do aerobatics?
Maybe the case to remove this setting.

Sokol1

Salmo
Apr-26-2013, 22:31
Thanyou for the feedback guys. Much appreciated. It's quite tricky to get all the aspects of amission working well.


Red reached 100/100 planes destroyed while I was there, but the mission didn't end. This was with 2.5hrs remaining in the mission clock.
Fixed. The battle should end when blue get 16 ships or red gets 100 planes. These limits may need adjusting with time to produce a battle lasting 3-4 hours based on an average number of players.


Also, the one Heinkel I came across was incredibly fast, and when I first shot at it, it pulled straight up and went aerobatic. I was in a DH5-20, got the kill (flamer, very satisfying :D ).

Is not the ACE skill for pilot is that make bombers do aerobatics?
Maybe the case to remove this setting.
Could have been an ace pilot as 1lokos said. We'll have to watch this & see if it's a problem players are concerned about.


External views were still on but I suspect that's an easy fix and probably isn't news.
External view are on during early testing phase, they'll be off when the battle gets to the ATAG server.


the c7s spawn on a hill, you cant move without crashing.
This is a tricky one. Because the planesets at the bases are randomised on battle start, I can't tell which airfield this occurred at. It likely ocurred because all the spawn point were full at the time you spawned in. I've made the Ai spawn a little less frequently, so hopefuly there is more liklihood of a free spawn point being available at any given point of time.


I had a steady 350ms ping and there were only four players on. I experienced only one stutter, which was contemporary with a server message and a few seconds later a player joining. I had no further stutters at all.
The server is in Oz which is not ideal for USA & British players. (Now you know what the Aussies have to put up with). I suspect most of the minor connection-delay & lag issues may improve once the battle is running on the ATAG server.

ATAG_Naz
Apr-30-2013, 08:17
Hey Salmo

Managed another couple of sorties tonight and so have some quick feedback for you. Bear in mind I have no idea about how any of this works, so much or all of what I say may well be issues related to the game itself rather than the mission.

1. Love the Low Ping for us here in Australia ;)
2. I was asking Ground Control for bearings to targets quite a lot...I only got a call for enemy being less than 15 Miles after I had flown all the way to France...was assuming enemy was taking off or was inbound nearby so concentrated my search, but then got one of those unsolicited calls from GC that there was an enemy group over the Manston/Ramsgate area. So it looks like the radar operators had missed the bogies that were actually in the danger area. Not sure if this is something due to the game itself or not. Turned back to England but spotted a group of Blennies mid channel heading over to France so escorted them instead.
3. In second sortie I got a series of Calls from GC regarding some enemy groups near our ships...each time I had a freeze of a second or so. From memory I think it was actually 4 or 5 such freezes in quick succession and they all seemed to be closely timed with such contact reports.
4. Seven of the Red Ships were floating in mid air.

Hope some of that is of help. :thumbsup:

:salute:

Salmo
Apr-30-2013, 21:34
2. I was asking Ground Control for bearings to targets quite a lot...I only got a call for enemy being less than 15 Miles after I had flown all the way to France...
This is not scripted, it's the in-game GC to targets menu. I've found this highly unreliable.


4. Seven of the Red Ships were floating in mid air.
This was an in-game bug that hasn't been reported for some time. I do hope it's not raising it's ugly head again.

Salmo
May-05-2013, 00:54
Mission submitted to ATAG for their server. Hope it works OK with little stuttering or problems.

ATAG_Snapper
May-05-2013, 21:10
Fingers are crossed! Love your missions, Salmo!

III./ZG76_Saipan
May-06-2013, 01:07
cool, need something new.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-09-2013, 09:00
I can see this is on the main server now!

Some observations;

1. Bomber formations are large!
2. Bombers have A.I escorts. And lots of them (10+). If you try to attack by yourself you run some serious injury risks.
3. Bombers fly well in-land and they fly high. (22k ft +)
4. There is no longer a constant spawning of red aircraft at Hawkinge.


I can see these outcomes;
1. Attacks on bomber groups will need to be in greater numbers
2. No longer will battles constantly take place at 2,000ft over Hawkinge
3. More of the map is brought into play, so much so I even got a little bit lost for a few minutes today

In my opinion the A.I numbers could be reduced slightly (25% reduction in numbers), some guys had disconnect and FPS issues today.

But overall, it's a very nice change-up.

Vas
May-09-2013, 21:04
Flew this for the first time today. Seemed very smooth, didn't notice any issues with lag or any FPS issues. Thanks for putting together a new mission for the server Salmo :thumbsup:

camber
May-10-2013, 00:14
Thanks Salmo, had a lot of fun playing this mission (with about 15 total players)

The clouds over France were a bit much for my 1Gb 470 graphic card but I am at pretty much the low end for CloD anyway. It was nice to be having to choose between a 2-pitch Spit I and a Rotol Hurri, i.e high performance or less pilot workload.

Overhauled and then shot down a 109 that was initially slow then barely evading, thought that the AI fighters weren't very good. Then it turned out to be a player........

One thing was that when red won the mission, the server went crazy spamming for minutes "red won" messages at the top of the screen and in the chatbar. As I was flying red I didn't mind the server really rubbing it in, if blue had won I would have felt most offended :)

camber

ATAG_Naz
May-11-2013, 00:38
Hey Salmo

Just flew the mission on ATAG and had a great fight. Me and Mop up against Kalinka, Rollingstoned and what seemed the rest of the entire Luftwaffe! Great fun and it ran smooth as butter with 15+ online ... we were 13 v 2 (on the server) at one point but did our best LOL

:thumbsup:

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 02:03
What is the secret of this mission?

Sunk ships are not registered.
There are many good blue pilots was killed over those freaking destroyers :sad!:
including me:D

And at the end the red side always wins.
Is there some kind of challenge for blue pilots? Should we sink all of cargo ships to be counted as "blue side sunk 12/12 ships"? Should we continue to plan how to win this mission?

Or there is just the bug in the script...

Cheers!
"Kalinka"

Roblex
May-11-2013, 02:59
Vit_unit, It all depends on your perspective. Last night everyone was complaining because the Blues took barely 20 minutes to sink all the ships and close the map :-)

Is there a log someone that keeps track of who won and how long it took so the map can be adjusted? Actually that would not help because if one side regularly can't be bothered defending it's targets and just wants to dogfight then it is not fair to make it harder for the other side.

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 03:25
Last night everyone was complaining because the Blues took barely 20 minutes to sink all the ships and close the map :-)

Is it about waterfall mission?
It is impossible to sink 12 cargo ships being escorted by 5 (i do not remember the amount) destroyers in 20 mins.

let me count... To have success we need at least 3 stukas for each destroyer (15 at all) and 6 stukas for 12 cargo ships. Total 21 Ju-87 working together are to end this mission in 20 mins. And all planes are under human control. Cool. I would love to cover them.
Hmm... it's not enough time for Ju-87 to get to J8 from France.

It is not complain. Just make those sunk ships to be registered as destroyed.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-11-2013, 04:02
It is not complain. Just make those sunk ships to be registered as destroyed.

Yes I think you are right. I just saw <22> kill three ships in the Estuary, and the objective still said "0 of 12" destroyed.

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
May-11-2013, 04:09
why cant the missions go on after the objective is reached.
would be nice to have 2 or 3h of game play and after that you would see who won

Salmo
May-11-2013, 05:55
Thankyou for the feedback here & by PM's everyone. It's nice to see most players can play without too many lag issues. I am aware of serveral bugs & am working my way through them. Fixes will be sent to Bliss for battle-updating.

1. Sunk red ships are now counted.
2. German bombers having fighter markings corrected.
3. Frequency of Ai spawning reduced & now changes with the number of players ie the more human players the less frequently Ai will spawn & vice versa.
4. Reduced the number, skill level & rate of fire of British corvettes escorting the convoy.

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 06:10
Thank you for understanding and quick respond :thumbsup:
Waiting for update.

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 06:26
why cant the missions go on after the objective is reached.
would be nice to have 2 or 3h of game play and after that you would see who won

good idea

but in this case there will be nothing to do for bombers.

have u ever tried to bomb?

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 06:40
4. Reduced the number, skill level & rate of fire of British corvettes escorting the convoy.

Could you please not to touch this point? :flying::flying::flying::shoot::shoot::shoot:

Give us more destroyers to destroy:D

Or just reduce skill level slightly.

The challenge was accepted by brave people of blue side :D

Cassius
May-11-2013, 07:23
Yes, We have an interest in this mission, with the initial settings for British Corvettes. Item 4 is not necessary. :)

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
May-11-2013, 08:09
why cant the missions go on after the objective is reached.
would be nice to have 2 or 3h of game play and after that you would see who won


good idea

but in this case there will be nothing to do for bombers.

have u ever tried to bomb?

well say after 2 or 3h all the kills that red and blue has scored will be counted.
a bomber kill 1 point
a fighter kill 2 points
a cargo ship 2 points
a warship 3 points
a objective completed 20 points or something. dont know a fare way to count the score but im sure that could be worked out.

and no i have not tried to bomb yet. the spitfire cant carry bombs haha

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
May-11-2013, 08:12
btw salmo.. i saw a formation of 8 spitfires on the runway at graves end i think, they where all waiting to takeoff but they started to explode instead.

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 15:53
why cant the missions go on after the objective is reached.
would be nice to have 2 or 3h of game play and after that you would see who won



well say after 2 or 3h all the kills that red and blue has scored will be counted.
a bomber kill 1 point
a fighter kill 2 points
a cargo ship 2 points
a warship 3 points
a objective completed 20 points or something. dont know a fare way to count the score but im sure that could be worked out.

and no i have not tried to bomb yet. the spitfire cant carry bombs haha

Such thing was in earlier version of waterfall mission... i think

Not flying on the bombers u are losing 2/3 of good impressions of the game.
I'm not saying about lonely bombing, but about work in a group, forming huge formations, planing, dive and level bombing, escorting, etc. Let me mention that all planes are under human control!

Today we had epic battle against those corvettes.
Personally I did 5 flights in Ju-87, 2 flights in bf-109 e3/b with my comrades (4-5 Ju-87, 4 bf e3/b in one formation). Nobody made it home:D
But red side won this battle...
Maybe they should shot down not 150 but 200 aircraft. We almost sunk all cargo ships, all destroyers were eliminated. There were 122 shot downed blue planes...

But damn...it was cool!!!

Here are some screenshots:
279427952796

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 15:56
27972798279928002801


Good mission, Salmo.:thumbsup:
Just give us a chance to win it!
And do not reduce amount of destroyers :D

Berserker
May-11-2013, 21:19
Hi Salmo,

What are the chances of at least reducing the lethality of the corvettes ??
Last night the mission was not recording the ships that have been sunk, is it possible that this can be fixed.

Wulf
May-11-2013, 23:05
Don't know what if anything this means but I was just on the Waterfall map (well I'm pretty sure it was Waterfall), flying over the Thames Estuary in my 109, when I encountered a formation of Ju 87s flying in a strange jerky (back and forth) fashion. Some were burning but the smoke/flames were rising directly above them as they continued on out to sea. I thought I may have been disconnected or something but that didn't appear to have been the case. Very weird. Almost spooky weird .......

=vit_unit=
May-11-2013, 23:14
Hi Salmo,

What are the chances of at least reducing the lethality of the corvettes ??
Last night the mission was not recording the ships that have been sunk, is it possible that this can be fixed.

read post #49

Roblex
May-12-2013, 04:24
Is it about waterfall mission?
It is impossible to sink 12 cargo ships being escorted by 5 (i do not remember the amount) destroyers in 20 mins.

let me count... To have success we need at least 3 stukas for each destroyer (15 at all) and 6 stukas for 12 cargo ships. Total 21 Ju-87 working together are to end this mission in 20 mins. And all planes are under human control. Cool. I would love to cover them.
Hmm... it's not enough time for Ju-87 to get to J8 from France.

It is not complain. Just make those sunk ships to be registered as destroyed.

Apologies, I did not see it myself as I came in just after the map had re-set but the chat was full of people complaining about how fast the last map had been finished and how stupid it was the Blue could sink all its ships and win the map so fast. Maybe someone was exaggerating about the time but it certainly seems that it is possible to do it "fast" and on at least one occasion Blue got it perfect.
Is it possible they just used 109s and made suicide runs on the cargo ships? I was of the opinion that you did not need to take down the destroyers.

III./ZG76_Saipan
May-12-2013, 14:49
do the plane upgrades happen based on time or by objectives met?

Salmo
May-13-2013, 04:42
do the plane upgrades happen based on time or by objectives met?

Base upgrades are on a timer & occur about each 15 minutes. They are not related to objectives met, although it's been suggested that a further mission scenario could be to make the freuency of airfield upgrades based on whether or not a number of aircraft factories have been destroyed or not. ie. More factories = faster upgrades, fewer factories = slower aircraft upgrades.

Continu0
May-13-2013, 06:01
Salmo, Thanks for this mission! It really gives a new element to the server. Endles battles over Hawkinge are history...

My rig is reaching it`s boarders with this mission. I have mircro-freezes and stutters when a lot of AI activity is around. I guess it due to my rather weak 6x 2.6GHZ-Cores of which CloD only uses one...

Things I would like to report:

-I watched german bombers forming up near french point. I did not see any defensive reaction when a spitfire attacked (no gunner-fire or evasive maneuvers).
-I attacked Defiants which shoot back but with no tracers loaded. I don`t know if this is wanted but I guess turret-gunners would have tracers loaded...
(As well, the Defiants keept their formation when I was attacking alone, so I could just shoot down one after the other...)

Not sure if this is corrected now, but the markings for the german planes were messed up when I played last: you could choose "Aufkl&#228;rer" or "Bomber" markings for Fighers only...

Thank you so much salmo, you keep this server alive!

Salmo
May-13-2013, 06:10
I watched german bombers forming up near french point. I did not see any defensive reaction when a spitfire attacked (no gunner-fire or evasive maneuvers).
Odd. Gunner should at least have been firing.

I attacked Defiants which shoot back but with no tracers loaded. I don`t know if this is wanted but I guess turret-gunners would have tracers loaded... (As well, the Defiants keept their formation when I was attacking alone, so I could just shoot down one after the other...)
I'd expect low-skilled defiants to hold formation & use their combined rear-gunner powers. I'll look into their loadouts & see if there's a tracer setting.

Not sure if this is corrected now, but the markings for the german planes were messed up when I played last: you could choose "Aufkl&#228;rer" or "Bomber" markings for Fighers only...
This is a known bug that I've (hopefully) fixed when Bliss loads the next updated script file.

9./JG52 Ziegler
May-13-2013, 06:20
I love it for the change of pace and that it's a good mission. Thanks for the effort.

I too noticed that some bomber formations on the French side (a little east of Calais) were being attacked with no response also. It was great to see all the action though with Stuka's in the mix! :thumbsup:

Dutch
May-13-2013, 07:17
Was lucky enough yesterday to be online as the map rotated to 'Waterfall' so I could fly it from the start. I love it. The feeling of being tense and on edge, wondering what's around the corner is fantastic. It's the most realistic feeling of 'being there' I've experienced online to date.

Couple of observations supporting those already made though;

1) Ship kills were not registering for Blue team, whether piloted or AI ship kills. A manned Ju88 got at least two, a flight of AI Stukas some more, but it still came up '0 out of 20'.

2) Red achieved 150 kills far too quickly. There were around 20 red flyers online, and at the time the map was won, approx 20 kills total showed in netstats, meaning 130 kills were achieved by AI. Unfortunately I didn't check the mission clock, but this was maybe an hour to an hour and a half from the start of the mission, so I'd recommend somehow slowing down Red's AI kills.

Also, (I'm in danger of sounding like I'm preaching a new gospel here) the AI Stukas were too fast. They were on the climb after bombs gone (steady climb, not post bomb-drop zoom climb), and it was a struggle to catch them on the climb with my Spit I flying at full-tilt boogie mama. :D

I didn't have any computer performance issues at all, including dogfighting 4x109s in cloud and chasing a staffel of Stukas through the same. Love it. :thumbsup:

Salmo
May-13-2013, 07:27
1) Ship kills were not registering for Blue team, whether piloted or AI ship kills. A manned Ju88 got at least two, a flight of AI Stukas some more, but it still came up '0 out of 20'.
Known bug that's now been fixed. Just waiting for Bliss to load the updated script & mission files.

2) Red achieved 150 kills far too quickly. There were around 20 red flyers online, and at the time the map was won, approx 20 kills total showed in netstats, meaning 130 kills were achieved by AI. Unfortunately I didn't check the mission clock, but this was maybe an hour to an hour and a half from the start of the mission, so I'd recommend somehow slowing down Red's AI kills.
I've address this issue too. Only kills where a human pilots has contributed more than 50% to the aircraft's total damage are counted. NO despawning Ai/human planes are counted; NO Ai kills are counted; NO flak kills are counted.

Also, (I'm in danger of sounding like I'm preaching a new gospel here) the AI Stukas were too fast. They were on the climb after bombs gone (steady climb, not post bomb-drop zoom climb), and it was a struggle to catch them on the climb with my Spit I flying at full-tilt boogie mama.
I can adjust their waypoints so they climb at a lower rate.

Cassius
May-13-2013, 09:58
Hey Salmo! Thank you for a new mission, they do not have enough on our favorite ATAG. Please do not do this ...no way...please.
4. Reduced the number, skill level & rate of fire of British corvettes escorting the convoy
Can you tell us the news about paragraph 4.
By us I mean the Russian-speaking community bombers from the server Sukhoi.ru...../....–°lod/Online/Server ATAG
Thanks

=WFB=Charger
May-13-2013, 14:48
Excuse my google English. Salmo, my respect!
Subscribe to the comrade Cassius. Do not spoil a great fan. Current number of corvettes gives unforgettable feelings in the attack. And lets you search for many solutions to this challenging task.

=WFB=Charger
May-13-2013, 15:02
Base upgrades are on a timer & occur about each 15 minutes. They are not related to objectives met, although it's been suggested that a further mission scenario could be to make the freuency of airfield upgrades based on whether or not a number of aircraft factories have been destroyed or not. ie. More factories = faster upgrades, fewer factories = slower aircraft upgrades.

Sorry my english.
Great idea. As an option to continue, perhaps to improve the issuance of new aircraft models differentiating its airfields. Most rear airfields receive the most new aircrafts, while at the same time the front line airfields using existing equipment is replaced by the new, as withdrawals. So is it possible to build a historically accurate RPS.

ATAG_Bliss
May-13-2013, 15:09
Thanks Salmo!

Ill update it when I get home from work. :thumbsup:

1lokos
May-13-2013, 19:02
Good mission! :thumbsup:

Some nice "cosmetic" details on map too. These towers have FLAK?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9022/waterf.jpg

Congrats to ATAG_Torric270 that sunk many ship last night - despite dying in every sortie. :salute:
Neither gave time to try intercept...

Since cargo ships now have AAA - I see someone shot down by one these ships - maybe should reduce the escort corvette in two, with rookies gunners,
to encourage these bravo bombers pilots to keep trying. :D

Sokol1

=vit_unit=
May-14-2013, 09:49
I'm just curious ..
why do not many people read posts above? Do not pay any attention what other people say?

Two corvettes will not protect these cargo ships from well organized group bomber attack, won't it?

I think this kind of play (group bombing) is more interesting then lonely flights.

Are u agree with me?

The target should be hard to die in this mission

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-14-2013, 10:05
I'm just curious ..
why do not many people read posts above? Do not pay any attention what other people say?
Two corvettes will not protect these cargo ships from well organized group bomber attack, won't it?
I think this kind of play (group bombing) is more interesting then lonely flights.
Are u agree with me?
The target should be hard to die in this mission

I agree. Easy targets are.. well... easy.

If we want to experience the benefit of good team work, we need missions that reward team work. Easy targets do not need teamwork.

=vit_unit=
May-14-2013, 12:39
I agree. Easy targets are.. well... easy.

If we want to experience the benefit of good team work, we need missions that reward team work. Easy targets do not need teamwork.

:thumbsup:
Some days I'll fly with you and other guys, i f u want, on Blenheims :)

=WFB=Charger
May-14-2013, 14:07
I'm just curious ..
why do not many people read posts above? Do not pay any attention what other people say?

Two corvettes will not protect these cargo ships from well organized group bomber attack, won't it?

I think this kind of play (group bombing) is more interesting then lonely flights.

Are u agree with me?

The target should be hard to die in this mission

Well said! It is interesting to see the team work. Not just a slew of goals in one or two raids, and coordinated the work of the group. When every tactical and strategic element when the work group puts a nice point. When working in a team and to oppose it is equally interesting.
:)

Kodoss
May-14-2013, 14:48
It would also be nice if people would join the ATAG-TS-server to actually coordinate attacks...

I've flown the mission yesterday and was completely alone at the blue side on the Teamspeak-server. Had to sink 2 ships in my Ju 87 in a dive at one sortie alone, until a spit hunted me and mission ended with 150 downed A/C.

Salmo
May-18-2013, 20:47
Good mission! :thumbsup: Some nice "cosmetic" details on map too. These towers have FLAK?
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9022/waterf.jpg


Maunsell sea-forts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunsell_Forts) in the Thames estuary. Some still exist today. Sadly, the game won't allow you to elevate AA units so they sit on top of the forts.

Cassius
May-21-2013, 10:41
Were there any changes in the original list of aircraft for the blue side?
Now comes the mission, and there is only Ju88 and He111 P2, where is Ju87?

Roblex
May-21-2013, 17:48
I was a little surprised yesterday to attack the fleet yesterday and meet no opposition at all. I came in high from the North and dropped down to wavetops so was going pretty fast. I dropped on two ships in a line and then kept going and never saw any flack at all. I even shot up the AA platforms before heading home without any response though I think the earlier post was saying there is no AA on them.

Has it been dumbed down? The map had only been up a short while and only one ship had been sunk so I assume the corvettes were there. I also made the mistake of accidently crossing Hawkinge at 50m AGL on my way home without getting shot at; is there no AA down there?

1lokos
May-22-2013, 00:40
Maunsell sea-forts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunsell_Forts) in the Thames estuary. Some still exist today. Sadly, the game won't allow you to elevate AA units so they sit on top of the forts.

You can share this tower?

In SP, Bofors and tank Vikers - the only British MG that fire in aircraft and are useful (Bren carrier and landing craft have a limited arch of fire) - work over a water tower ~23 meters.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8380/toweraaa.jpg



Sokol1

Salmo
May-22-2013, 06:03
Were there any changes in the original list of aircraft for the blue side?
Now comes the mission, and there is only Ju88 and He111 P2, where is Ju87?
The plansets at each base will be different every time the battle runs. Was the Ju87 at another base to previously? It has not been removed from the mission.


I was a little surprised yesterday to attack the fleet yesterday and meet no opposition at all. .... Has it been dumbed down? The map had only been up a short while and only one ship had been sunk so I assume the corvettes were there. I also made the mistake of accidently crossing Hawkinge at 50m AGL on my way home without getting shot at; is there no AA down there?
Two points to make here:
1. The script spawns AA randomly at bases when the battle starts. A spawn-base has a 95% chance of having AA, a non-spawn base has a 25% chance of having AA defences. Hawkinge is not a spawn-base in this battle, so it's entirely possible it had no AA defences when you flew over it. However, fly over an enemy airfield often enough & the script will begin to spawn in new AA units every 15 minutes or so.
2. I've noticed times when the AA (ships & ground units) seems to go to sleep for a period of time. This puzzles me? There's nothing in the scripting that changes the stock AA behaviour. I did reduce the ship skill levels becuase of complaints that it was too hard to sink ships. Perhaps I overdid it. I've increased the skills & defences around the ships a little. You will probably notice a change in th mission in the coming days when the updated version gets on the server.


You can share this tower? In SP, Bofors and tank Vikers - the only British MG that fire in aircraft and are useful (Bren carrier and landing craft have a limited arch of fire) - work over a water tower ~23 meters.
I did have the sea-forts & many other historical objects in several mission templates HERE (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34502&highlight=RAF+bases+pack), but I've removed the link & they are not currently publicly available. Sadly, the SP & MP environments are different in COD. In Sp, you can elevate objects (like in your picture) & the objects remain elevated when the mission runs. But in MP, you can elevate the objects in FMB OK, but when the battle runs in MP mode, all elevated objects are spawned at zero (ground-level) height. Very frustrating.

ATAG_Freya
May-22-2013, 09:03
Thankyou Salmo! I just have one Q : what about blennheims? I've noticed that there isn't any. I've seen a couple guys get on the server, say "where's the blenny's?" then leave dissapointed. Any thoughts on this? I'm not trying to sound like a negative nelly, its just an observation. I very much enjoy your mission! Keep up the great work!

Salmo
May-22-2013, 16:24
Thankyou Salmo! I just have one Q : what about blennheims? I've noticed that there isn't any. I've seen a couple guys get on the server, say "where's the blenny's?" then leave dissapointed. Any thoughts on this? I'm not trying to sound like a negative nelly, its just an observation. I very much enjoy your mission! Keep up the great work!
Blenheims are in the mission.

ATAG_DRock
May-22-2013, 18:12
Thank you for your time , Salmo. Great mission.

Freya, check the northern bases close to London for those Blenheims.

=UAi=Shkrab
May-23-2013, 00:05
Salmo! I just have one Q : what about BR-20m?

Salmo
May-23-2013, 03:34
Salmo! I just have one Q : what about BR-20m?

I've added the BR20 to the blue base planeset. You should see it soon when the next mission version is loaded.

Bear Pilot
May-24-2013, 01:54
Before I get started I just want to make it clear that I fly both red and blue quite regularly and I'm not looking for a team advantage on either side. I also fly both fighters and bombers. Flying a bomber you have to accept that you're simply going to die every once in a while from things you can't control and be put in situations a fighter might not be in and that's just that. You do however like to think you have a chance going into it though. The following is a consensus of my own thoughts and things I've heard from multiple people, most of whom also fly on both sides and have experience in bombers as well.

In my opinion, I think the flak could still use some tweaking. Although not as bad as it was, it is still very very deadly. Now I know what y'all are thinking, "Of course it's supposed to be deadly, you're a big bomber on the deck." This is true. But the fact remains, none of us are going to be court-martialed by the big fat man himself, Goering, for refusing to fly bomber sorties in the Thames estuary. I fear this is what will happen with the current flak situation. Guys will get tired of flying for 15 minutes knowing full well that even if they're lucky enough not to get hit on the first pass, a second one will certainly forgo knocking and send them flying right through death's virtual door. I have made passes at 400 km/h and higher, at least half a mile away from the nearest corvette (the only one left was at the very front of the convoy on the eastern end) and I was coming in from the north on the deck and at the extreme west of the convoy and was absolutely obliterated. Rudder and elevator were disabled and the rudder was completely gone. Both engine's were hit severely and my top gunner was killed. From what I could tell, I was very nearly on his direct six o'clock when I was hit and don't believe he could have brought all his guns to bear on me. Which leads me to think that several of the guns made incredibly accurate shots at more or less a 90 degree angle at a target a longggg way off moving at ~400 km/h or 230 mph plus (I think I'm low-balling the mph). I also made sure that it was the very last corvette and if I'm mistaken about that, the others were invisible. I made a subsequent flight in a 109 to double check and none were sunk between my crash landing and arriving over the convoy again.

I've also been hit in 109's at 2k on two separate occasions and both were fatal water radiator hits. On one occassion I grant you I couldn't have been more than 500 meters laterally away but I was still 2 kilometers in the air! By my calculations, and they could most certainly be wrong, altitude alone would have put me almost 1.25 miles in the air. That's a long shot if I was on the ground not moving and to anyone that hasn't seen one in person, a 109 is a relatively very small airplanes. The second hit I suffered was laterally much further away, so far that I was sure it was a fighter on my tail but as I watched for my plane to despawn and the culprit to be revealed it was again a corvette.

Because of this, I also fear that blue fighters will be unwilling to go beneath the clouds for more than a few seconds to take a peak because aircraft size doesn't seem to matter. And with blue fighters not eager to go down and cover because they will almost certainly meet the same fate and not even be able to take a shot and a bomber's pursuer, all we're left with is a one way slaughter as far as engagements over the ships is concerned.

It's very late here on the east coast and I'm positive that could have been written much better so I'm going to recap and probably throw in some points not previously made.

>As it is, bombing the ships is almost a suicide mission. Even in a Stuka. I can however, see how that would be an easier shot because for a moment there would be basically no deflection involved. I don't know if aa gunners account for that or not or if it's a vicinity deal or if speed plays a factor. I have no idea how it's coded and won't pretend I do.

>Escorting below the clouds ~1.5k and below seems to be just as deadly and very discouraging. So unless it's a good buddy calling out for help down there, most blue fighters seem to stay much higher.

>I wonder if it's possible for flak from ships to be seen as it is on land. The heavier black flak would be nice so guys know when they're in range but the lighter stuff would be even better so pilots would know just how thick it is. As it is, there's nothing:flying: and then BOOM elevator disabled:maddriver:, you can't trim up fast enoughwhaa, dead. :bricks:

>I find this nagging issue is taking away from the great potential this mission has. Only the most devoted bomber pilots such as the great Torric seem to be willingly to go up time and time again under such hopeless conditions. I know several more than capable bomber pilots who simply won't take anything but a high flying fighter to the convoy anymore. And even then they're not safe.

>Few if any (during some parts of the day), are willing to sacrifice their free time and patience only to be pk'd before they ever get the satisfaction of dropping even one bomb.

>When there are no bombers, no ships will be sunk. When there are no bombers to cover and no real center of action, fighters will wander aimlessly and hope to find something to do. Under the current 150 plane/12 ship format, often what happens is the 6 hour time limit runs down and no one has the time or patience for that.

>Also the corvettes also take away from kills fighters may normally get so unless it brings a bomber down before he drops his payload, it just hurts the red team.

>On a side note, the ships could stand to be increased and plane count decreased. In conjunction with a reduction of the deadly flak I think this could be everyone's favorite. At the moment it's the one we have to get through to something enjoyable.

I don't think flak should be completey taken out of play but I don't think it should be a dominant factor. I realize historically flak was very deadly and effective (I've read both Al Deere and Johnnie Johnson's books and by their accounts rhubarb missions were absolutely at the bottom of the list) but for the sake of everyone's enjoyment, I think both sides have something to gain by cutting it back.

I absolutely positively don't mean any of this as a complaint. Just an observation that I think is holding the mission back from truly flourishing.

I'm sorry that turned into such a long post but that's my 2 cents. Good thing I didn't have a nickel on me! :salute:

Happy Hunting

Bear Pilot

Salmo
May-24-2013, 03:24
Bear Pilot,
As always, I appreciate feedback. An updated Waterfall mission has not yet been sent to Bliss, so the mission you talk of is ver 1.3 with 4 corvettes protecting the convoy. Two are set to rookies, two are set to average. All corvettes have rate of fire reduced by at least 3 times normal (ie they fire at 1/3 the rate of a normal corvette).

It is interesting that with these setting we have pilots comment that the ship defences are too little, while others feel that defenses are too much. It's also interesting that at some times the flak seems excessive & at other times there are reports that the ships (& land AA units) hardly fire at all. I have no scripting control over the flak Ai logic as such (whether they fire or not; or how accurate they are), I can only control the number of corvettes & their skill levels & fire rates.

Finding a balance of the many battle variables that is 'fair' to both sides is always difficult. I'll run the Waterfall ver 1.4 mission on the Nations@War server over the weekend & ask players to provide feedback on the ship defences. For comparision here's ver 1.3 & ver 1.4 settings. This is an oportunity to tweak the ship defences before the mission is sent to ATAG.

Waterfall v1.4 change log
- Number of cargo ships increased from 12 to 19, the convoy now has 19 cargo & 4 corvette ships (as requested).
- Reduced the number of planes red need to shoot down from 150 to 40 (as requested).
- Reduced the amount of damage a red human player needs to do to a blue aircraft for it to count as a red kill from 50% to 25% (ship flak was stealing kills).
- Ship convoy defences changed:
.............Ver1.3 - 4 corvettes, 2 set to rookie, 2 set to average, all set to rate of fire 1/3 of normal.
.............Ver 1.4 - 4 corvettes, 4 set to rookie, all set to rate of fire 1/4 of normal. Plus 2 cargo ships with the 'black-flak' AA guns & 1 cargo ship with a 20mm gun set to rookies & rate of fire=1 (normal) (as requested).
- Planesets changed to exclude pre-1940 plane models (as requested).
- Ensured plansets include Ju87, BR20 & Blenheims (as requested).
- Spawn-base plane upgrades start 60 minutes into the battle, instead of after 20 minutes into the battle.
- Spawn-base plane upgrade rate reduced from each 15-20 minutes to every 25-35 minutes.
- Changed blue bomber landing behaviour, they now fly inland when returning from missions & don't land at coastal airfields.

Roblex
May-24-2013, 04:28
It is strange to see what Bear is posting. Yesterday I flew Waterfall again and took a Ju88. Like Bear I came in from the North at 400kph but unlike Bear I saw no flack at all. I looped round to the East of the convoy at wavetops and though I saw a corvette at that end it did not shoot at me. I then flew the length of the convoy dropping on three freighters then finished by flying straight at the Western corvette and dropping on that as well.
I did not see any flack at all!

There must be some sort of bug that is causing the corvettes to stop shooting. I don't think it is related to how far into the mission you are or number of attacks made because I had the same experience a day or two earlier and only one ship had been sunk then. This time 8 ships had been sunk (and only one LW aircraft destroyed!?) before I attacked and the mission timed out just after I passed the corvette.

ATAG_Slipstream
May-24-2013, 11:15
I was flying blue last night covering ATAG_DRock in a BF109. Approaching the target, there was no sign of flak when DRocks Ju88 was rendered a flying heap of scrap metal by a Corvette. I continued patrolling the area looking for enemy fighters when I heard one loud crack and suffered complete engine failure at the hands of a Corvette.

I don't know what you have armed them with Salmo but its invisible and effective, although it would be nice to have some indication of when these things start firing.

Great Mission btw!

Bear Pilot
May-24-2013, 11:41
Salmo, thank you so much for all your work. It does not go unnoticed or unappreciated. I really do enjoy your missions and I hope those tweaks will improve everyone's enjoyment. I'm really looking forward to Home Plate!

Roblex, I never see the flak. If the corvettes aren't using tracers like the ones we see from light flak over land then there may be a bug keeping us from seeing it. I am sure I've been hit by it without any visual confirmation that they were the ones shooting at me besides "Bear Pilot's Ju88 was shot down by Corvette such and such." If you managed to fly right over a corvette without getting hit you are far luckier than I! :salute:

1lokos
May-24-2013, 12:25
- Ship convoy defences changed:
.............Ver1.3 - 4 corvettes, 2 set to rookie, 2 set to average, all set to rate of fire 1/3 of normal.
.............Ver 1.4 - 4 corvettes, 2 set to rookie, 2 set to average, all set to rate of fire 1/3 of normal. Plus 2 cargo ships with the 'black-flak' AA guns set to rookies & rate of fire=1 (normal) (as requested).

Since unconventional tactics are "standard" in CloD: using level bombers in top wave "skip bomber" attacks:

Testing offline, against a Corvette with average gunners and "rof" 1, I increase chance of survival in these "suicide" tactic if:

Constant change plane altitude, flying "~~~~" :D

I said increase, not ensures. :thumbsup:

Sokol1

Salmo
May-25-2013, 05:02
I'm beginning to think there's a game bug (not a script bug) somewhere. I flew a Ju87 over Manston airfield & in a north westerly direction towards the ship convoy. I passed over Manston at 4,800m & there was no flak from the airfield. I reached an altitude of 5,000m over the ships. Again, no flak seen or heard. Armed my bombs, prop pitch to zero throttle back to less than 10% & put my dive brakes on. Rolled over & almost vertical dive on a cargo ship. A small amount of black flak started as I dived. Released bombs at 800m, direct hit ship destroyed. Pulled out of dive into level flight, dive brake off & suddenly .... the plane wants to go into a death spiral. Ju87's don't fly too well with just one wing. No white flak or tracers seen or heard.

Not sure if the corvette's got me, or the wing came off due to G forces, but I was well enough out of the dive & into level flight by about 3-4 seconds, so I thinking it's probably not G forces. Looks like the corvettes have been armed with invisible & silent laser beams like Slip suggested.

Bear Pilot
May-25-2013, 17:35
^^^
Yes!!! This is exactly what we've been experiencing. I mentioned it in that very lengthy post earlier somewhere I think. As deadly as it is, it would help to know when you're in danger. :thumbsup:

I'm sorry your flight ended prematurely but I'm glad you experienced the sensation because words can never substitute for the real thing.

Hope your 'chute opened!

Roblex
May-26-2013, 03:39
Looks like the corvettes have been armed with invisible & silent laser beams like Slip suggested.

Once we get that fixed we will be in a better position to see if the flak is actually firing in all situations. As you saw in my last example, I flew the whole length of the convoy starting at one corvette and finishing by flying straight at, and over, the second without taking any hits. I suppose if I fluked getting past the first one then staying at wavetops between ships may have shielded me from its ack but surely flying directly at the second would have been suicide?

Generally the observed effects are pretty consistent with normal airfield AA i.e. a single low level pass at speed has a good chance of success but a second pass is not safe and hanging around at a few thousand feet will get you killed within 60 seconds. If that is the level of AA you are expecting then it is OK. Take a look at any WW2 footage of convoys under attack, or look at the Midway statistics, and you will see that the chances of a plane surviving a dive bomb attack are minimal, never mind a second attack or a fighter stooging around within ack range. I tend to make just one low level skip bomb attack on a couple of ships and then get the hell out of the area staying low which may be why I have not seen the 'over lethal' ack effects that others are reporting.