2 things: LoD and ffb

[gavagai]

Greetings!

First, very nice work on the Clod patch. It's great to see continuing improvements.

There are two things that still cause me some grief in Clod. The first is the LoD switch that happens from the "dot" to the higher LoD, where the aircraft almost disappear on my monitor (1920x1080). I have tried lowering the resolution, changing various graphical settings, changing FoV, but without improvement. It seems like the LoD transitions in Clod are the same as in the old 1946, which leave a lot to be desired. I've been flying the P-51 in DCS, and the clarity with which I can see the shape and aspect of an aircraft at distance is much better than in Clod (with the same screen resolution).

Second, ffb support has always been spotty for me in Clod. Is it the same for others? Sometimes it takes 2 minutes for the force to kick in after spawning an aircraft. During a sortie yesterday the force feedback stopped after firing machine guns, but came back a few minutes later. I am using a msffb2 joystick.

Anyway, I don't know if TF has thought of tackling these issues, but here they are! Thanks and good luck.:salute:

[Kling]

hey Gavagai, the Lod thing I cannot help you with, it is clearly a hard bug to squash.

The force feedback thing issue is annoying too but I have the same stick as you do and there are some tricks you can use.
When the FFB disappears, you need to lower the speed so ca 230km/h or ca 140mp/h and the FFB will once again kick in with a punch.

I always lose my FFB once i press escape and go into a menu while Im airborn, or if I have to alt tab to windows while airborn. But as I said, as soon as I am back in the game, i must then put the nose straight up and let the speed come down to get the FFB.

If you fly the 109, the first time you fire either of your guns, you might lose the FFB. This is resolved by once, separately firing you cannon and once firing your machineguns, before you take off. Then during the climb out, let the speed drop down to the above mentioned values. FFB will the come back and stay with you for the rest of the mission! (unless you alt tab, or press esc while airborn ;) )

Sorry it is annoying! FFB in Clod id very bugged!!

[Artist]

Both have long been registered in the the bugtracker: Force Feedback as issue #191, the LOD as issue #294

[Robo.]

Greetings!

First, very nice work on the Clod patch. It's great to see continuing improvements.

There are two things that still cause me some grief in Clod. The first is the LoD switch that happens from the "dot" to the higher LoD, where the aircraft almost disappear on my monitor (1920x1080). I have tried lowering the resolution, changing various graphical settings, changing FoV, but without improvement. It seems like the LoD transitions in Clod are the same as in the old 1946, which leave a lot to be desired. I've been flying the P-51 in DCS, and the clarity with which I can see the shape and aspect of an aircraft at distance is much better than in Clod (with the same screen resolution).

Second, ffb support has always been spotty for me in Clod. Is it the same for others? Sometimes it takes 2 minutes for the force to kick in after spawning an aircraft. During a sortie yesterday the force feedback stopped after firing machine guns, but came back a few minutes later. I am using a msffb2 joystick.

Anyway, I don't know if TF has thought of tackling these issues, but here they are! Thanks and good luck.:salute:

I am using the same joystick and I am having the same problem - I guess this is something that CloD inherited from the old Il-2 series. When you mention DCS P-51, I'd like to see the FF do same thing when you trim your plane in CloD for I find the DCS FF effects in there the best I ever seen in both functionality and response. I am not sure if it is possible at all for TF to fix this issue to be honest but I agree it's annoying.

I am positive they will try to improve the LOD issue though, all I can tell you for now is that it gets better when you get used to it. Great to have you here Gavagai :thumbsup:

[gavagai]

Ok, glad to know they are already on the list! Thanks for the ffb tips!

[9./JG52 Hans Gruber]

I also use MSFFB2 and before I join a server I load a quick mission in single player and fire the guns then climb till ffb returns. I do this a few times and then join a server and have no more problems.

[AA_Engadin]

hey Gavagai, the Lod thing I cannot help you with, it is clearly a hard bug to squash.

The force feedback thing issue is annoying too but I have the same stick as you do and there are some tricks you can use.
When the FFB disappears, you need to lower the speed so ca 230km/h or ca 140mp/h and the FFB will once again kick in with a punch.

I always lose my FFB once i press escape and go into a menu while Im airborn, or if I have to alt tab to windows while airborn. But as I said, as soon as I am back in the game, i must then put the nose straight up and let the speed come down to get the FFB.

If you fly the 109, the first time you fire either of your guns, you might lose the FFB. This is resolved by once, separately firing you cannon and once firing your machineguns, before you take off. Then during the climb out, let the speed drop down to the above mentioned values. FFB will the come back and stay with you for the rest of the mission! (unless you alt tab, or press esc while airborn ;) )

Sorry it is annoying! FFB in Clod id very bugged!!

Awesome tricks and what a sharp eye to find them! :thumbsup: Anyway, you must have passed through a lot of tries and errors to get the ones that work!

As a MS SW FFB2 owner, thanks a lot for all of them.

Salute!

AA_Engadin

[Kling]

Awesome tricks and what a sharp eye to find them! :thumbsup: Anyway, you must have passed through a lot of tries and errors to get the ones that work!

As a MS SW FFB2 owner, thanks a lot for all of them.

Salute!

AA_Engadin

:salute:

[2./JG54 Chumleigh]

This is terrific news! I was just about to tear apart one of the pair of FFB2s I bought recently hoping I'd get lucky. If that didn't work I was contemplating purchasing a third - again hoping I'd get lucky. You've saved me some time, money, and frustration?

Great stuff!

[Basha]

I have a Saitek Cyborg EVO force and have no FFB issues at all, sorry to read you guys are it sound like a right pain to resolve every time you want to fly.

[gavagai]

Any update on FFB support? It is still really bad in Cliffs. I've tried the "fire a bullet from the ground" trick, but it's buggy as hell. Sometimes, right when I squeeze the trigger the ffb cuts out. I can't imagine flying a combat flight sim without my msffb2.

It works great in DCS and other flight sims, and I'd really like to have it work in Cliffs so I can participate more.

[hnbdgr]

I use the same joystick. Under Steam\SteamApps\common\IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover\parts\core\FF I think I have gotten rid of everything except for mortar,punch,shake and spring. I only make use of the FF "spring" feature so it centres back. I set it up this way way back and never looked back.

[LuseKofte]

Iwonder why this function seems to be not priority in all sims. They report ffb does not work in ground at BOS either. I am thinking about using a buttkicker witch in my mind will behave as a ffb stick. I have currently put it to rest until cod and bos reports it is working

[LBR=H.Ostermann]

Any update on FFB support? It is still really bad in Cliffs. I've tried the "fire a bullet from the ground" trick, but it's buggy as hell. Sometimes, right when I squeeze the trigger the ffb cuts out. I can't imagine flying a combat flight sim without my msffb2.

It works great in DCS and other flight sims, and I'd really like to have it work in Cliffs so I can participate more.

S!

It's really need a look. Even removing the others .ffb files and leaving only the spring.ffb don't solve the problem at all, some times the joystick go crazy and made you stall or lose a shot. I know that we can solve this using other joystick, but my FFB2 is so nice that I don't want other.

:salute:

[hnbdgr]

S!

It's really need a look. Even removing the others .ffb files and leaving only the spring.ffb don't solve the problem at all, some times the joystick go crazy and made you stall or lose a shot. I know that we can solve this using other joystick, but my FFB2 is so nice that I don't want other.

:salute:

you might be taking your finger off the sensor where your pinkie normally sits. The pinkie has to stay there at all times. My FFB2 never stops centering.

EDIT: Aha, I just realized I'm actually using custom curves thread linked (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6497&highlight=curves) so that the FFB2 axis are not directly detected by Clod, just the converted curves of the virtual device. This way I seem to get good results not only in smooth handling but also consistent centering.

[LBR=H.Ostermann]

you might be taking your finger off the sensor where your pinkie normally sits. The pinkie has to stay there at all times. My FFB2 never stops centering.

EDIT: Aha, I just realized I'm actually using custom curves thread linked (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6497&highlight=curves) so that the FFB2 axis are not directly detected by Clod, just the converted curves of the virtual device. This way I seem to get good results not only in smooth handling but also consistent centering.

S!

hnbdgr, I don't have problems in normal flight, only in certain maneuvers, like a high speed barrel roll using rudder (the joystick torcion rudder), for some reason in this maneuvers my joystick loose the force for 1 second, made I stall, then he recover the force. Low speed barrel roll is ok.

I tested this in 2 ffb2, I have the same problem in the two. I will give this software a try and see if it help. Thank you.

[hnbdgr]

S!

hnbdgr, I don't have problems in normal flight, only in certain maneuvers, like a high speed barrel roll using rudder (the joystick torcion rudder), for some reason in this maneuvers my joystick loose the force for 1 second, made I stall, then he recover the force. Low speed barrel roll is ok.

I tested this in 2 ffb2, I have the same problem in the two. I will give this software a try and see if it help. Thank you.

interesting, let me know.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

you might be taking your finger off the sensor where your pinkie normally sits. The pinkie has to stay there at all times. My FFB2 never stops centering.

EDIT: Aha, I just realized I'm actually using custom curves thread linked (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6497&highlight=curves) so that the FFB2 axis are not directly detected by Clod, just the converted curves of the virtual device. This way I seem to get good results not only in smooth handling but also consistent centering.

Just use a bit of electrical tape over the sensor light and you don't have to worry about pinkie. :thumbsup:

[gavagai]

Just use a bit of electrical tape over the sensor light and you don't have to worry about pinkie. :thumbsup:

Not necessary. That's not why the joystick goes limp. It's a bug in Cliffs. It never happens in DCS or Rise of Flight.

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

There is a thread that describes how to disable any software from affecting the MSFFB but it will only have FF as 'return to centre'.

Thats how I use mine with the FFB acting as a centre spring but with the 'permissions' mod it is 100% reliable and, even without all the other FF effects, is still far better than my X52 regards 'feel'.

[hnbdgr]

There is a thread that describes how to disable any software from affecting the MSFFB but it will only have FF as 'return to centre'.

Thats how I use mine with the FFB acting as a centre spring but with the 'permissions' mod it is 100% reliable and, even without all the other FF effects, is still far better than my X52 regards 'feel'.

Can you explain the 'permissions' mod? Mine is spring only but not sure if i had to do any mod to get it. I think I just deleted the files. could be wrong though.

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

Ziegler posted the mod.........its in the first post here,

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7374&highlight=force+feedback

[gavagai]

Sure, it's easy enough to make the msffb2 behave like a regular joystick, and I already knew how to do that.

Isn't there someone on the TF team who uses the msffb2? I have to wonder if this wouldn't have higher priority if a few more people knew how important ffb is.

[Osprey]

I agree. It's worse in the 109 too.

I find in the Hurricane that it kicks in at about 140mph and increases well until you get very fast, then you can suddenly lose it. tbh I've not done any trials, I just know that it's awful when there isn't any feedback (which I would expect at very low speeds), would be nice to have it progressive on airspeed.

[Osprey]

Bug 191 is gone,

Now
http://tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/507
http://tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/596
http://tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/517

Probably some more. The whole FFB issue seems to have been blended elsewhere - can we have 191 restored?

[Artist]

Hi Osprey,


Bug 191 is gone,Yeah, after imploring the community several times on many forums (and sending direct e-mails to the authors) to recheck all issues from summer 2012, and getting close to no response whatsoever, we've decided to start the bugtracker afresh...

However, we did not delete anything, just put it on a shelf to gather dust.

can we have 191 restored?

This was issue 191, Force Feedback: None from control surfaces on airspawn:

If player spawns on ground and starts normal, there's force feedback from the control surfaces (aileron, elevator) relative to speed and flight situation (plus force feedback from ground, engine, guns, etc).

If player spawns in mid-air there's force feedback from engine and guns _but possibly not from the control surfaces_ (aileron, elevator).

Steps to reproduce:
* Start Computer
* Start CloD
* Go into Single Player, Quick missions, start any (i.e. "Free Flight - Channel")
* Hit "Fly"

Now, there *is* either force feedback from the control surfaces or ther is *not*.

(A) If there *is no* force feedback
* Take up speed and make a looping
* force feedback from the control surfaces kicks in halway through it

Force feedback from the control surfaces will then always be present in airspawns, unless:

(B) If there *is* force feedback
* Hit <Esc>
* Exit back to Quick Missions
* Exit CloD (Main Menu, Exit)
* Restart CloD
* Go into Single Player, Quick missions, start any (i.e. "Free Flight - Channel")
* Hit "Fly"
* There's no force feedback from the control surfaces

There's a "thread@1C forum":http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31308 confirming this issue (at least from G940 owners).


This was issue 459, FFB sticks. Too strong shake effect when firing cannons:

This bug has been in the game since day 1!
Read carefully before commenting because most will say that there are programs to manually edit the FFB. THIS IS not the issue!!

Anyone who flies the 109 with FFB can confirm that when firing the 20mm the joystick will almost shake off the table making aiming very very difficult.
Now, these force can be reduced with various programs, however for some unknown reason the stall shake and cannon shake use the same file and its ONLY for the 20mm and ONLY for the 109 (not the BF110), the "cannon shake" file is mixed up with the "stall shake" file. So if I lower shake to be able to aim better I will also lose the stall feeling.

The even funnier thing is that it only happens when realistic gunnery is enabled.
The cannon shake and stall shake are perfect when realistic gunnery is disabled so it IS apparently possible for the game to use the right file for the right stick force.
This is clearly a bug as it happens only for the 109 and no other plane...

Check this link out from the old banana forum
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24165

Bug 203, Force Feedback - BUG when engine damaged.

well this is a very subjective bug but this is the situation:

currently it seems like the game shares cannon shake with damage engine shake. SO if i fine tune my joystick so that i have abotu the same shake i would have in chipmunk during a stall (very light shaking) if engine is damaged the shake you get out of it gets the plane unflyable: seriusly, i have the joystick firmly bolten to my pc case, and if i would it in the air, the pc case shakes in the air a lot.

for g940 users:
global 100
jump 21
3rd 24

activate - yes
central force 100

solution:

create a new FF file for damaged engine! its already bad enough to have a rotten engine, taking out my controls is not needed.

And finally there was Feature Request #411 Force Feedback Support:

Would you add Force Feedback toggle and force sensitivity support in the controls GUI and config ini file please?

Many of use MS Sidewinder ForceFeedback Pro2 USB as their flight controller.
IL2 and Win Vista and Win7 still work with this stick even though its MS feedback software GUI doesn't.

I'm perfectly willing to transfer these issues into the current bugtracker (and not only because I use a g940 myself ;- )) - if you could please recheck and (re)confirm these issues.

Cheers,
Artist

[Osprey]

OK mate I'll see what I can do :)

[Kling]

Sure, it's easy enough to make the msffb2 behave like a regular joystick, and I already knew how to do that.

Isn't there someone on the TF team who uses the msffb2? I have to wonder if this wouldn't have higher priority if a few more people knew how important ffb is.

Im with you! Im using the MS FFB2 stick and I really find this annoying as well! Last time I brought it up, We hadn't been able to find the code that controls the FFB in game Im afraid. Ill remind them on our private TF forum again!
Salute
Kling