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Bartoszcze
Mar-25-2013, 11:20
I would like to suggest to add a following feature to your missions - after a pilot is killed or crash lands, he would have to wait some time before being able to respawn. Perhaps this would make people to value their virtual lives more and make flying more realistic and more immersive.

ATAG_JTDawg
Mar-25-2013, 11:40
I would like to suggest to add a following feature to your missions - after a pilot is killed or crash lands, he would have to wait some time before being able to respawn. Perhaps this would make people to value their virtual lives more and make flying more realistic and more immersive.

roflmao NO sry don't like that an here is why , say i'm sitting at manston, or better yet your sitting on base , warming up, smoking a cig while you wait to warm up,. here comes that pesky red flier , OHHno i straifed you an killed you on ground, then you want a penalty on top of that ? or a noob shoots you down ( team kill ) or one of many things that could or will happen , an you want a penalty? anouther road we have been down, an always somebody pushing how we all should fly becouse , thats what they want :grrr:

Katdog5
Mar-25-2013, 12:02
Thatd be one way to kill server completely

Bartoszcze
Mar-25-2013, 12:06
Hey, being shot on the ground is a risk you take when starting at Manston or Hawkinge. If you want to go safely to an altitude why not going from Eastchurch or Biggin Hill? Also have in mind that an Ohno or whatever other airfield vulcher would think twice before doing this because they usually don't live for long when doing that over an airfield and so would be punished too. I think it's a rational mechanism that would introduce a very important aspect of aerial battles - fear for your life. And the time off wouldn't have to be very long - 10 minutes for example.

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-25-2013, 12:17
I would like to suggest to add a following feature to your missions - after a pilot is killed or crash lands, he would have to wait some time before being able to respawn. Perhaps this would make people to value their virtual lives more and make flying more realistic and more immersive.


Heh, I agree with The Dawg, although I'm not nearly as colourful about it. LOL

Bartoszcze, although having said that I admit your thoughts make a lot of sense. This aspect has been discussed at other times, as you might expect. One reason that some (but not all) players fight to the extreme is to boost their kill/death ratio, be it for bragging rights within their squad or because they think it'll look good on their job resume.

To address the stats-junkie issue, several suggestions have been made which sound interesting. Not sure if any are actually possible to program, or if anyone else would be in favour:

1). Kills must be "landed" in order to be scored. In other words, the victorious pilot must RTB successfully (or at least survive a ditching on friendly territory) to have that kill (or partial kill) actually show up on Netstats or this website's statistics board. For those pilots interested in ballooning their scores and flying with abandon, they would need to be a little more prudent when pressing their attacks if they hope to survive.

2). If killed, the pilot's score is totally wiped clean. Everything on Netstats and the same on this website's Statistics board EXCEPT No. of Deaths (until the next monthly reset). War is hell. If you're vulched, well, tough tata's. "Ya want fair? Go see yer mama!" To that end, anyone leaving the server before safely landing/ditching: dead as a doorknob. Kicked the bucket. Flew off this mortal coil. Bought the farm. Joined the celestial choir eternal. Deceas.....OK, OK. You get the picture. :D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-25-2013, 12:46
Here's one thing I hope we would (mostly?) all agree on; That the gaming scenario tends to produce some types of flying/ fighting that are less than appreciated, and it seems as though the "cheap" life is a big contributing factor.

So, how do we deal with this?

Often, and rightly so, there is a strong call for deaths to result in greater inconvenience to the player, thus (hopefully) resulting in them being more careful with their life. But exactly how that is implemented is often the cause of much debate - as you see ni this thread.

Simply applying a "re-spawn" time after death is fraught with problems.

I would like to see something more sophisticated looked at; perhaps taking account of the following.

1. Being killed on a friendly airfield; OR being killed by a friendly (only where friendly damage is 100% of total damage sustained) incurs no re-spawn wait time
2. making a survivable landing at a friendly base, no matter how damaged the aircraft is, results in no re-spawn wait time
3. Landing safety (i.e. pilot alive) anywhere on friendly territory results in a very short wait time (30 seconds)
4. Bailing out over friendly territory results in a short wait time (30s)
5. Bailing out over neutral territory (1 minute 30 seconds)
5 Bailing out over enemy territory (2 minutes)
6. Landing on neutral territory (2 mins)
7. Landing on enemy territory (2:30 mins)
8. Killed in any other circumstance, results in a 3min minute (max) wait time

In addition to the above, the stats system could be adapted so that;

For any kills (ground or air) which are obtained, the following applies,

Landed at a friendly airfield (100% score)
"Crashed" or bailed out over friendly territory (75% score)
"Crashed" or bailed out over enemy territory or neutral territory (50% score)
Died or abandoned* aircraft (0% score)

Maps would have to be adjusted to have gaps between the front lines, so there is neutral territory, particularly over the mid-channel areas.

So in the scenarios:
1. I fly from UK to france, shoot down two bombers but get killed by the tail gunner; 0 points, wait 3 minutes to re-spawn
2. I fly from UK to france, shoot down two bombers but get hit and turn for home, but have to bail out over the mid-channel (1 point, 1:30 wait)
3. I fly from UK to france, shoot down two bombers but get hit and turn for home, and manage to bail out over friendly territory (1 point, 30 second wait)
4. I fly from UK to france, shoot down two bombers but get hit and have to crash-land in France (1 point, 2:30 wait)
5. I fly from UK to france, shoot down two bombers but get hit and coax the airplane back to Dover, where I land on the beach (1.5 points, 30 seconds wait)

The above, combining both POINT and WAIT TIME, is the best way I can think (given my limited brian power) of to appropriately encourage, in each situation, the pilot to aim for the best end-result - that is, to try and turn for home, and to favour landing if possible and then bailing out.

Of course it might no be at all possible to code the above anyways, in which case it's a waste of time ;)

*= abandoned i.e. using the Alt+F2 key, OR jumping back to the map to select a new plane, OR leaving the server whilst aircraft still flying.

ATAG_JTDawg
Mar-25-2013, 13:41
:devilish: on stats i look hard at landings an deaths . an yes , how many blue guys that met thier end with me, say last 6 weeks since they were changed , i think i had 164 flights 177 kills an 19 deaths, an i think 90 or 93 landings . an btw im a stat whore. =on deaths an kills an landings. Do you know why ATAG is an has been the most populer server since it started ? , its becouse they do not force stupid rules down your throat. plain an simple !. think i read ACG has missions like what your asking , ask them to put in death penalty for you , as ATAG is a server with vary few rules an thats what most of us like ! as a squad you can put any rules on your guys you want. :thumbsup: but please dont tell me how you would like me or others to fly.
as you are talking about a few players. that you will not be able to change how they fly anyway. At 71ST, we have a new awards for most landings least deaths etc, do it within your squad not in the server, i should be able to fly how i want when i want an not buy some other squads rules , i =we already do that on sundays in sow , you can have this plane an not this one acg gets choice , as we have new pilots so you can only have this many players etc . an you can have 1 or 2 spits this week etc, if we are lucky. with all due respect go change a differant server to how you feel it should be ! just leave my ATAG alone thanks

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Mar-25-2013, 13:46
having a different point system i can agree on, but this "wait time" is not something i would like too see at all.
if you want fighter pilots to act like fighter pilots you need to give them something too do.
right now our only job seems too be:

1, shot down 5 bombers, and then wait 20 min or so for the next "wave" (which BTW have no impact what so ever on the mission)
2, go over to the other side and kill everything you see. (which BTW have very little impact on the mission)

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-25-2013, 13:48
:devilish: on stats i look hard at landings an deaths . an yes , how many blue guys that met thier end with me, say last 6 weeks since they were changed , i think i had 164 flights 177 kills an 19 deaths, an i think 90 or 93 landings . an btw im a stat whore. =on deaths an kills an landings. Do you know why ATAG is an has been the most populer server since it started ? , its becouse they do not force stupid rules down your throat. plain an simple !. think i read ACG has missions like what your asking , ask them to put in death penalty for you , as ATAG is a server with vary few rules an thats what most of us like ! as a squad you can put any rules on your guys you want. :thumbsup: but please dont tell me how you would like me or others to fly.
as you are talking about a few players. that you will not be able to change how they fly anyway. At 71ST, we have a new awards for most landings least deaths etc, do it within your squad not in the server, i should be able to fly how i want when i want an not buy some other squads rules , i =we already do that on sundays in sow , you can have this plane an not this one acg gets choice , as we have new pilots so you can only have this many players etc . an you can have 1 or 2 spits this week etc, if we are lucky.

I'm not sure if your indention is to lay down your own demands... or provide some useful discussion tips. I'm unable to read tone from your response, and the grammatical/ structural layout is difficult for me to follow.

My intention is not to demand that anyone flies a specific way, let alone another squad. I'm just trying to offer creative ways to implement a suggestion that somebody else made, whilst trying to hone in on what I think the main contributing factors might be. Like i said, the solutions offered tend to be "fraught with problems", I'm sure mine is no different once properly examined.

Let's remember that we all already fly to the rules of the server. Where you can spawn and what planes are available is already set by the mission maker. What the mission objectives are is set by the mission maker. How long the mission lasts is set by the server/ mission maker. The realism set is determined by the server. The stats provided here on the website are courtesy of ATAG. All of these things are already rules/ restrictions on how you can interact with the game whilst on ATAG.


with all due respect go change a differant server to how you feel it should be ! just leave my ATAG alone thanks

I've always worked on the understanding that we are guests here, and if ATAG decide to change THEIR server, it is the rest of us who would have to change to a different server if we did not like it.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-25-2013, 13:54
It's not ATAG's philosophy to force any one to fly a particular way.

The only reason you can not do things like fly a german spit (for example) is to try to keep it as historically correct as possible.

ATAG_JTDawg
Mar-25-2013, 13:54
having a different point system i can agree on, but this "wait time" is not something i would like too see at all.
if you want fighter pilots to act like fighter pilots you need to give them something too do.
right now our only job seems too be:

1, shot down 5 bombers, and then wait 20 min or so for the next "wave" (which BTW have no impact what so ever on the mission)
2, go over to the other side and kill everything you see. (which BTW have very little impact on the mission)

agree+1 mission makers have alot to do with how most of us fly. even with all the new room in the sandbox, i find it hard to find any 109s high, an many raf still at 15,000 an below. :doh: the fun fighting is up at 30,000! although the knife fight on the decks is a fun mission here an there. :D

Doc
Mar-25-2013, 13:57
The truth is...

This is a topic that has been talked about for over a year. It's best to remember this is a game.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-25-2013, 14:01
if you want fighter pilots to act like fighter pilots you need to give them something too do.
right now our only job seems too be:
1, shot down 5 bombers, and then wait 20 min or so for the next "wave" (which BTW have no impact what so ever on the mission)
2, go over to the other side and kill everything you see. (which BTW have very little impact on the mission)

Yup. Variety of missions is important.

Bartoszcze
Mar-25-2013, 14:05
It's not ATAG's philosophy to force any one to fly a particular way.

The only reason you can not do things like fly a german spit (for example) is to try to keep it as historically correct as possible.

I think this proposal would very much increase historical accuracy by introducing the aforementioned fear for losing "life".

Until now I believed that all of you ATAG guys were "a friendly bunch" and welcome all suggestions and feedback, but I guess it's not completely true. You can close the thread.

Alice
Mar-25-2013, 14:17
EDIT: OP asked for thread to be closed

Katdog5
Mar-25-2013, 14:23
1). Kills must be "landed" in order to be scored. In other words, the victorious pilot must RTB successfully (or at least survive a ditching on friendly territory) to have that kill (or partial kill) actually show up on Netstats or this website's statistics board. For those pilots interested in ballooning their scores and flying with abandon, they would need to be a little more prudent when pressing their attacks if they hope to survive.




I agree with this for sure. +1 !

ATAG_Colander
Mar-25-2013, 14:26
I think this proposal would very much increase historical accuracy by introducing the aforementioned fear for losing "life".

Until now I believed that all of you ATAG guys were "a friendly bunch" and welcome all suggestions and feedback, but I guess it's not completely true. You can close the thread.

Bartoszcze,

We do welcome all suggestions and feedback but that does not mean that they will all be implemented.
This very thread is a good example, it has your spawn delay suggestion but at the same time it has other players requesting not to implement it.
As you can imagine, we can not do everything every one wants but some suggestions and ideas have indeed been implemented.

ATAG_Colander.

Bartoszcze
Mar-25-2013, 16:09
Bartoszcze,

We do welcome all suggestions and feedback but that does not mean that they will all be implemented.
This very thread is a good example, it has your spawn delay suggestion but at the same time it has other players requesting not to implement it.
As you can imagine, we can not do everything every one wants but some suggestions and ideas have indeed been implemented.

ATAG_Colander.

I was referring more to the attitude presented by Dawg. I think it's good to discuss different ideas based on its merits instead of being rude and telling the person to leave the server just because he suggested sth.

Ohms
Mar-25-2013, 16:22
Snap, time to lock it. No good will come from continuing this thread.

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-25-2013, 18:58
The thread is closed. Some interesting points made.