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Little_D
Mar-26-2013, 10:57
Hi gents,

Once upon a time there was a server, that had everthing for all types of players (quickactionplayers, simulation/squadplayers, beginners and aces), different historical/semie historical missions with nice looking ground targets (some for bomberpilots, some for fighterbombers), different planesets, nice looking bases, etc. and this server had some good rules (i come later to the rules, not realy different from ATAG).

It had 2-3 spawnbases for each side, where you get all planes that where in the mission (so when ever you spawn in, the base where full of life (taxiing / starting / landing planes (fighters, fighterbombers and bomber)), and it had for each side a special rr base close to the frontline (1 minute). the spawnbases where about 7 - 15 minutes away from the frontline (7 min. if you go low in, 15 min. if you climb to alt (time is for fighters)) if you wish you could rr at you spawnbase too.

It had up to 8 different groundtargets for each side, there where distributed over the map, in an good distance (figterbomber targets closer to frontline, bombertargets more in the backland) with good aaa defence and big enough that you need more than one run to kill the target, if you not hit 100% right (when it was an bombertarget). the targets where build, like as they should (if an airbase was the target, as an example, the planes, tanks, aaa, fuelldepot, etc.) where distributed all over that base, so there where at least a flight of 4 fighterbombers needed to kill the base in one atack, or a single fighterbomber needs 4-5 runs to kill the base. The missions run 2 hours, than changed (so we got the possibillity to fly more than one mission on a weekend. i think for CoD, 3 hours is a good time). The map could still be finished faster, around 1 hour was needed to kill all targets of one side).


For fighterbombers they had targets like moving tank/vehicle column, stady artillery position, armor-ready exhibition spaces, trains, little stock replenishment , airbases, ships and the rest of little stuff, that a fighterbomber love to atack. for bomber they had targets like habours, big stock replenishment, airbases (with closer together standing targets, to make it possible to kill it with one atack, if you hit 100%), HQ`s, factories, etc.

They had good stats, where you can see your kill/death ratio, your all together airkills, your landet airkills, how often you landed, how often you where killed, how often you baild, etc., it shows you your gunnery accuracy in %, they had different stats for bombers and fighters, the had stats about the maps for red/blue (so you could see who won the last map, who had the most looses, who destroyed the most groundtargets, who make the most airkills, etc.) They had a top 10 list (for fighter and bomber), for the simulation/squadplayers (only landed kills where counted) and the stats where resetet at the end of every month, so the battle between red and blue can start again.

They had rules like this:

- it is not allowed to atack spawnbases (so they where able to concentrate the dogfights over the groundtargets and not let the fight concentrate over the bases only) ( personal note: normaly this rule must be the best for quickaction players, because they only need to fly to the closest own target and wait there till the first enemys show up, and i bet after a short time there will be more enemys over the target, so more airtargets for quickaction players, exept he is not able to fight and need the easy kills (starting/landing planes) and please dont come with thinks like this its historical, because they never did it in history like you do it, point out.).

- taxiways for taxiing is to use and runway is to use for take off and landing, transverse field take offs where not allowed (this is nessesary when 20 planes are on one base and whant to start, looks coll by the way, when you see 20 planes on one base that taxiing together to start)

- it is allowed to atack starting/landing planes at rr-bases

- shouldershooting and killstealing was not alowed

- shooting on parachute was not allowed

- intentional ramming was not allowed

This was the best time and the best server i ever played on and it was the best server from the point of view about the quality of the pilots. Even with the rules 1 and 2 ( for both you need discipline, specialy for nr. 2) and the restriction of planetypse , because of the different missions, the server where all the time full and even the quickaction players where able to follow this rules and had a lot of fun. We had often 20 - 30 planes doghfights over the targets, from the deck up to 10000 meters. And the behavior on the server was different (when the enemy saw that you tray to make an emergencylanding he let you land, it was more like a big arena, where you can measure your skills with or against your friends, but when you reach a spawnbase, you where save ( personal note: if i am not able to kill my enemy in the dogfight and need to follow him back to base to kill him on landing, this has nothing to do with fair play, honor, be a good pilot, an ace with lots of kills, etc. its only show what a bad pilot you are and that you have no decency, point out.), it was most of the time a playing with honor and fair play, so no need to kill the enemy when we know he was finished. It was more an battle between team red and blue about who win the map and the quickactionplayers had enough to do, to kill all the planes over the targets.

When ATAG show up the first time, i was hoping, that ATAG will fill up the gap, so the good old funny times come back, but i think now, the new generation of players and there behavior on the server has changed in comparison with the old generation of pilots in combination with the way ATAG make there rules and there maps, so the good old times will never come back. or lets hope they come back, when BoS come out.

This is not an atack on ATAG or there policy, i only whant to show how it was on one of the best server the IL-2 comunity had and how they bring quickaction players and simulation/squadplayers together on one server, so both have the same fun.

regards

Little_D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-26-2013, 11:04
Overall some interesting points Little_D!


transverse field take offs where not allowed

Although for me, this rule is not one I would embrace.

British fighters took off across the field - right from where they were parked, this was the best way to get the whole squadron airborne quickly, and together. In fact, many RAF airfields did not even have marked runways, just open areas of grass.

92 Squadron practices the transverse line-abreast takeoff as standard. We would not change this.

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-26-2013, 11:15
Hi Little D

I knew very well the server you were talking about. I enjoyed, helped, did what i could to assure it was run as the server owners intended. But that was then, for Il2 46, with a zillion plane types, for instance, while in CLOD the choice, for now, is still very limited.

Im not going to comment all the points, but there is one i want to: The protective spawn bases was a nightmare to admins. It required constant attention. From a admin point of view its much more easy not to have a protective spawn base like that. And from a perspective of history they did not exist. I do reckon that a more variety of choice of planes set in the back bases could assure that those who didnt want to have a risky take off should be able to pick their ride freely.

ATAG has its own style, its doing its own way. The tumb rule is quite simple actually, "No excessive rules, its the best way to rule (run a server)". Replicating what existed never seemed a good option. In time, im sure, there will be a "standard" to make maps, giving those options i spoke about to the pilots. For now its all still very in the begining.

Nevertheless, thank you for your input. You are contributing to build the community also.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-26-2013, 11:20
. It required constant attention. From a admin point of view its much more easy not to have a protective spawn base like that. And from a perspective of history they did not exist. .

There is an easy way to implement historical "protective spawn bases".

1. Just provide spawn locations away from the front lines
2. provide many more spawn locations (i.e 10 places to spawn instead of 4)
3. Put machine guns around the bases (the MGs are good at killing low flying enemies, the bofors is crap)

I can take off from Eastchurch almost without fear any time I want. It's only Manston and Hawkinge that are almost constantly "hot". If we could also use a working* Biggin Hill, Kenley and
Ford or Tangmere then Red would have plenty of safe places to operate from. Blues could have the same on their side - but currently so many of their spawns are so close together, that they cannot escape from a ground attack (or they don't want to....) by spawning elsewhere, out of sight.

You're right Lolsav , there is no need for excessive rules and name calling (i.e. calling other pilots "dishonorable"). It's just up to the map makers to be a bit more creative with their spawn points and placement of defences.

Sometimes I love it that the RAF bases are under attack when you spawn in. I've never complained about being shot up on take-off or approach. It happened a lot during the war - and there are p[lenty of famous quotes fro pilots talking about how the most vulnerable part of the flight was when they were near to base.


* many of the spawn points at RAF bases are broken and cause you to explode or crash on spawn. Biggin Hill is notorious for this.

Little_D
Mar-26-2013, 12:17
I knew very well the server you were talking about. I enjoyed, helped, did what i could to assure it was run as the server owners intended. But that was then, for Il2 46, with a zillion plane types, for instance, while in CLOD the choice, for now, is still very limited.

Hi Lolsav,

i know we have only some planes in CoD, but we can build the following missions with this map: 1. early france, 2. dunqurke, 3. late france, 4. first stage of BoB eastside of map (atacking ships midchannel), 5. second stage of BoB west side of map (atacking ships midchannel), 6. third stage of BoB atacking the forward airfields, radar, comunication, etc., 7. fourth stage of BoB atack back airfields, 8 fifth stage of BoB atacking london. 8 missions a 3 hours = 24 hours when the maps running complete time, before it starts again. planeset goes from E-1 and E3 for mission 1-3, E1, E3, E4 for mission 4,5 and 6, E1, E3, E4, and E4/N for mission 7 and 8. red get the planes they need to counter blue planeset and there are mutch more possebillitys if we use the complet map to build lots of missions.

I know how hard it was for the admins to ban and controll all the stuff and players, one of my friends was a blue admin from this server :-)


There is an easy way to implement historical "protective spawn bases".

1. Just provide spawn locations away from the front lines
2. provide many more spawn locations (i.e 10 places to spawn instead of 4)
3. Put machine guns around the bases (the MGs are good at killing low flying enemies, the bofors is crap)

Hi Philstyle,

good ideas, hope with this we can stop this concentration on fights over bases, the map is to big and to nice to put it down to fighting over the bases. but i think with this mutch machine guns we will get probs. with the fps.
but when we make it like this, than the aaa must be feard by the pilot, so he make only one pass and than see that he get the hell out of there, because the possabillity of getting killed in the secont pass is to high, up to 80%.

regards

Little_D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-26-2013, 13:16
good ideas, hope with this we can stop this concentration on fights over bases, the map is to big and to nice to put it down to fighting over the bases.


I agree 100%!

It is a shame that the MG causes FPS loss..... maybe they can turn off the smoke and the tracer for the ground machine guns?