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92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-27-2013, 06:41
Hi all, I've not done any mission making besides building basic ground layouts for squadron stuff. However, I've ideas about what I would build if I had the time and the know-how.
I've spent a wee bit of time drafting what I think would be a fun mission. I thought I'd share it, just in case there are mission builders out there looking for ideas, and in case other People have mission ideas that they'd like to share.

So here's my idea:

The philosophy behind this mission concept is;
1. To reduce the air-quakes over bases
2. To add large-scale bombing raids that actually influence the mission outcomes
3. To provide targets that smaller groups/ individuals of human flown bombers can destroy

Ground Targets:
There would be two types of targets:
1. Strategic Targets:
These would be spread over larger areas, such as entire airfields or small towns. Require a tonnage of bombs to destroy the target. The large AI raids would be set to drop bombs on these targets. These targets tend to be behind the lines, half way between the coast and London, for example.
2. Tactical targets:
Small targets such as ships , tanks and radar sites. These could be destroyed by individuals and small units with pin-point raids. No AI would be tasked with destroying these. These tend to be placed closer to the coasts, and can be got at by 109B variants and 110s, for example. These targets would be lightly defended, or in some cases not defended at all.

AI Bomber raids
Minimum of 20 bombers per raid, Spawning only once every 30 minutes. They spawn a long way behind friendly lines, and occur at various altitudes from about 14,000 upwards, perhaps as high as 27,000ft. Their flight paths to the target avoid major flak concentrations and they dog-leg their way in.

Human Spawn locations
A large variety (at least 10) of spawn points for each team. Located near and away from the front lines. Spawn airfields are protected by the high-rate-of-fire machine guns.

Plane-sets:
Accurate to the mission time period, without restriction on numbers of any particular type. If the map is set for early June 1940, then there would be no Spitfire IIas, or 109E4

Flak (artillery)
Flak guns (the high level stuff) are placed at towns and airfields. Just one flak gun at each airfield. One gun at small towns and two or three guns at cities. the flak is useful for marking enemy aircraft, but if too concentrated it can kill fps, and can knock down too many bombers. The defenders should not be able to rely on the flak to do their job.

Winning the map:
My thinking would be to try and replicate the historical defensive stance of the RAF and the aggressive position of the Luftwaffe. However, its important to provide the red side with some ground targets to destroy.

So these would be my victory conditions;
Luftwaffe/ RAI
Destroy 60% of all strategic and tactical ground objectives; whilst suffering less than 75% damage to all their own assets

RAF
Suffer less than 60% damage to all their own assets

Any other situation would be a draw. Yes, that does mean that the RAF could force the draw by destroying more than 75% of the Luftwaffe assets, even if the RAF still had their assets knocked out.

Little_D
Mar-27-2013, 10:12
Hi Phillstyle,

nice ideas with this we would get close to the server i wrote about in my last post. but there are some things that must be sortet out:

1: red only get radarinfo when the bomber cross the frontline at middchannel. Wy? easy to tell: in the moment red atack the bomber at the spawnpoints and over france. as far i know, in WW II the erlyest atack on german bombers startet midchannel and not over france. you can give red a messanges that a new bomberformation is inbounding, so the reds can climb up to alt and wait till the bombers reach the frontline/middchannel and then they get the infos about speed, alt, hdg, etc. to intersept. with full radar, even when it is historical you would destroy the idea of the map.

2: different ways and spawnpoints for the bomberstreams when ever they spawn in ( if this is possible)

3: for the bomber/fighterbomber under us i would ad moving targets too.

4: missiontime 2-3 hours, so we can play on the weekend more maps :)

i have not realy knowleg about the FMB (skripting, mp-spawnpoints, etc.), but if ATAG is interestet i like to build one mission as an template ( i think you call it so) with airfields, tagets, etc., so ATAG only needs to put the spawnpoints on the bases, the bomberformations, the moving targets, the missionsettings, etc. in, and ready is the mission. or i would ask for help to make the map complete.

i would build late france, historical correct as close as possible (outside my boocks : tank/infantriebattles from 1939 - 1945, airbattles from 1939 - 1945)

regards

Little_D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-27-2013, 10:43
S! Little_D;




1: red only get radarinfo when the bomber cross the frontline at middchannel. Wy? easy to tell: in the moment red atack the bomber at the spawnpoints and over france. as far i know, in WW II the erlyest atack on german bombers startet midchannel and not over france. you can give red a messanges that a new bomberformation is inbounding, so the reds can climb up to alt and wait till the bombers reach the frontline/middchannel and then they get the infos about speed, alt, hdg, etc. to intersept. with full radar, even when it is historical you would destroy the idea of the map.

The British Radar in 1940 was able to see German raids forming up over France. The low-level RADAR could see to about 5km inland of Cap Gris Nez. The High Level RADAR could see to Therouanne and Wormhout.

However, at this stage, the information would not be very accurate. Once the attack is mid-channel the Radar could give approximate heights (+/- 3,000ft), approximate heading (+/- 10 degrees) and approximate number (+/-10).



2: different ways and spawnpoints for the bomberstreams when ever they spawn in ( if this is possible)

Yes, this would be important. In the current missions, the bombers always spawn in the same location. If I want, I just fly to Calais and wait there. It's too predictable. I think if the bomber spawns are less predictable, then it's OK if the RADAR can see them when they are over the French coast. It's only 10-12 minutes for them to cross the water.

Also the German fighters should have more warning before their bombers spawn in. Maybe 2 warnings; 1 warning 10 minutes before and another warning 5 minutes before. So they can set up their escort.


3: for the bomber/fighterbomber under us i would ad moving targets too.

Yes. good idea.


4: mission time 2-3 hours, so we can play on the weekend more maps :)

I think, if the missions have enough variation in them, they can be run for more than 3 hours. But, Yes, I think 3 hours is a good number.

LG1.Farber
Mar-27-2013, 11:44
Spawn airfields are protected by the high-rate-of-fire machine guns.

not possible. Definatley needs to go on TF's wish list.

good luck.

Little_D
Mar-27-2013, 11:57
S! Little_D;
The British Radar in 1940 was able to see German raids forming up over France. The low-level RADAR could see to about 5km inland of Cap Gris Nez. The High Level RADAR could see to Therouanne and Wormhout.

I know :) that the RAF Radar could see the bombers forming up over france, but for the missions and to stop this ..... gamers that atack germanbombers at spawnpoint and over france i would make it like i said. because even when RAF had the info
from the radar that german bombers are forming up over france, they never ever in history at BoB timeframe atack german bomberformations over france.

3 hours was my thinking, because of 8 different missions and planesets we can make for the rotation, 3x8 = 24 hours, if themaps end normal.


regards

Little_D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-27-2013, 12:03
I know :) that the RAF Radar could see the bombers forming up over france, but for the missions and to stop this ..... gamers that atack germanbombers at spawnpoint and over france i would make it like i said. because even when RAF had the info
from the radar that german bombers are forming up over france, they never ever in history at BoB timeframe atack german bomberformations over france.

True.

Marmus
Mar-27-2013, 12:13
Mission ideas.....this is not very specific....

.....is "Bomber Night" any more do-able with the latest TF patch?

Bomber night was/is a weekly event at Spits vs 109 server for IL-2:1946.....great experience...it brought in lots of bomber enthusiasts....it typically ran every Friday night with a special mission for flyable bombers with a specific target objective. Fighters were also required to cover and defend.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-27-2013, 13:15
Mission ideas.....this is not very specific.....

Well if you look at the content of my first post.. I'm looking at fully worked up ideas that mission makers can take away. short of producing a "template".. I think the concept is pretty clear. :salute:

Marmus
Mar-27-2013, 13:27
Sorry....I meant it a different way....I meant MY post is not very specific for ideas...other than for a bomber night. Sorry for the confusion.:thumbsup:

1lokos
Mar-27-2013, 14:30
The British Radar in 1940 was able to see German raids forming up over France. The low-level RADAR could see to about 5km inland of Cap Gris Nez. The High Level RADAR could see to Therouanne and Wormhout.

However, at this stage, the information would not be very accurate. Once the attack is mid-channel the Radar could give approximate heights (+/- 3,000ft), approximate heading (+/- 10 degrees) and approximate number (+/-10).

Normally you can see report like this "Enemy formation, XY quadrant, heading 330, altitute 15.000 foots, aproximately 20 Ju-88". XY are sometimes over France.

Based on Wikipedia (I know...) British Radar are able to detect and determine the distante and heading of enemy formations over France and by triangulation the estimated altitude. Expert operators are able to detemine size of formation based on shape from display returns.
But and this information abouth type of planes?
Observers Corps - visual component of defense system - are able to indentify planes at 30KM or more?

This german convoys at south French coast as target for Blenheims is to "balance" Luftwaffe attacks on British convoys?

Report of No. 59 Squadron - based on Thorney Island under Coastal Command - action during BoB.

http://number59.com/new_59/b_o_b.html

Sokol1

Mysticpuma
Mar-27-2013, 16:00
Not being able to make missions doesn't really help anyone with my suggestion, but I'd like to see a 'Battle of Britain Day' mission, where for 24-hours (or virtual 24-hours), the battles fought on the 15th of September were re-modelled so masses of bombers (even if AI) head across the channel from whatever time they actually did in history, until the last shell casing fell on that day.

The only other mission objective I'd like to see is something like:

Three top Scientists are being moved across France into Germany but the intel. reports are sketchy. We have various trains leaving and heading across to the East of France, but also vehicle convoys and boats along rivers. We aren't sure where the Scientists are hidden, we just know they are being transported out of the location.

The mission is to hunt down moving trains, ships, convoys which may contain the scientists. The only way you'll know if you destroyed the correct vehicles is at the end of the mission where you get "Sorry, 1,2,3 of them escaped and now Germany are well on their way to building a Nuclear/Chemical device" or "Congratulations, you eliminated the threat and now we have time to strengthen our forces in preparation for D-Day" or something similar?

I just like the idea of having to find moving convoys or vehicles rather than just heading for a known area to attack :)

the briefing could of-course say, we think they are in roughly these areas...but that's the only clue and if you aren't there in a reasonable amount of time, you then have to follow multiple routes (track,road, waterways) and you may not even see a target!

Just my thoughts, cheers, MP

Ohms
Mar-27-2013, 16:04
Not being able to make missions doesn't really help anyone with my suggestion, but I'd like to see a 'Battle of Britain Day' mission, where for 24-hours (or virtual 24-hours), the battles fought on the 15th of September were re-modelled so masses of bombers (even if AI) head across the channel from whatever time they actually did in history, until the last shell casing fell on that day.

The only other mission objective I'd like to see is something like:

Three top Scientists are being moved across France into Germany but the intel. reports are sketchy. We have various trains leaving and heading across to the East of France, but also vehicle convoys and boats along rivers. We aren't sure where the Scientists are hidden, we just know they are being transported out of the location.

The mission is to hunt down moving trains, ships, convoys which may contain the scientists. The only way you'll know if you destroyed the correct vehicles is at the end of the mission where you get "Sorry, 1,2,3 of them escaped and now Germany are well on their way to building a Nuclear/Chemical device" or "Congratulations, you eliminated the threat and now we have time to strengthen our forces in preparation for D-Day" or something similar?

I just like the idea of having to find moving convoys or vehicles rather than just heading for a known area to attack :)

the briefing could of-course say, we think they are in roughly these areas...but that's the only clue and if you aren't there in a reasonable amount of time, you then have to follow multiple routes (track,road, waterways) and you may not even see a target!

Just my thoughts, cheers, MP

Now that is a great idea!

III./ZG76_Saipan
Mar-27-2013, 18:09
large bomber formations were a lagfest. maybe the mod helps with that. the more statics you have the more lag you have. the Dunkirk map that used to run had a lot of micro statics just because of the statics.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-28-2013, 05:14
Sorry....I meant it a different way....I meant MY post is not very specific for ideas...other than for a bomber night. Sorry for the confusion.:thumbsup:

oops! sorry I misread it.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Mar-28-2013, 05:15
Not being able to make missions doesn't really help anyone with my suggestion, but I'd like to see a 'Battle of Britain Day' mission, where for 24-hours (or virtual 24-hours), the battles fought on the 15th of September were re-modelled so masses of bombers (even if AI) head across the channel from whatever time they actually did in history, until the last shell casing fell on that day.

The only other mission objective I'd like to see is something like:

Three top Scientists are being moved across France into Germany but the intel. reports are sketchy. We have various trains leaving and heading across to the East of France, but also vehicle convoys and boats along rivers. We aren't sure where the Scientists are hidden, we just know they are being transported out of the location.

The mission is to hunt down moving trains, ships, convoys which may contain the scientists. The only way you'll know if you destroyed the correct vehicles is at the end of the mission where you get "Sorry, 1,2,3 of them escaped and now Germany are well on their way to building a Nuclear/Chemical device" or "Congratulations, you eliminated the threat and now we have time to strengthen our forces in preparation for D-Day" or something similar?

I just like the idea of having to find moving convoys or vehicles rather than just heading for a known area to attack :)

the briefing could of-course say, we think they are in roughly these areas...but that's the only clue and if you aren't there in a reasonable amount of time, you then have to follow multiple routes (track,road, waterways) and you may not even see a target!

Just my thoughts, cheers, MP

sounds excellent mysticpuma!

LG1.Farber
Mar-28-2013, 15:06
I like the Idea Phil about the 15th running for 24 hours. However allot of the reds were in more than just kent. They were up North of the map coming from Norway without fighter escort if I recall, also you'd be off to the west near the Isle of Wight and all over the shop. I made the 15th Aug for Storm of War server, I had a thought like this, but the sheer scale is massive. :ind: Too run it as one map, for 24 hours and cover as much as possible would, not be do-able. The script to manage it all would be HUGE. In my experience the bigger the script and the more people on the server the less likely the script is to hold up. To such a point where I do not really on scripts if I can help it, although I do not script myself. Plus on top of this you have targets, ground objects, objects to block bad spawns, AA/A, the AI bombers and the players... You can see where this is going... Dont forget mission size also effects your download when you connect to the server, so it would take ages for people to get in.

Your imagination is limitless but the game is not. I am not trying to urinate on your parade mate, I know these things from experience. When I made the 15th Aug raid on Rochester and Eastchurch have the actual number of bombers, Eighty-eight Dornier Do17s of KG3, this force spilt in two and half went to Eastchurch and half to Rochester airfields. Nearly 300 bombs were dropped on Rochester. So, I forget the actual figures now but it was something like 20 SC50 bombs per aircraft. So 44 bombers dropping 20 SC50's is 880 bombs on Eastchurch... - It crashed my game in testing. I did this several times and it crashed everytime. So I halved the number of bombs. It still crashed! So I had to half the number of bombs per aircraft and then half the number of bombers... It was still too much although it didnt crash. So it ended up being something like 12 bombers with 10 SC50's each to each target so that people could actually play it. However its important to remember this raid was escorted by 200 Bf109's, obviously we can do this either! More like 40 - 50. So everything becomes a quarter sized replica of the real thing.

So basically in my tangent based thought path, I am saying you would need a series of maps to do such thing. I like the idea though. Its pretty cool. Its a huge project. Imagine doing the whole BoB like that? whaa

Roblex
Jun-10-2013, 13:21
How about putting the mission briefing only as spoken word repeating endlessly in one channel of Teamspeak just to make those buggers log into TS before flying? :cussing:


OK, I am kidding, but it does get annoying when there are a dozen pilots on your team and none are on TS3. I think sometimes it becomes self-perpetuating as nobody goes into TS because there is nobody in TS which is because nobody goes into TS because.........:P

SoW Reddog
Jun-11-2013, 04:55
Obviously I'm all a bit new to this, but I'd be very interested in trying to create a "historical-ish" map. I have no ideas of the practicalities or possibilities of some of the ideas below but I may as well spitball.

My idea is this. The Red team don't need objectives, defend XYZ just doesn't make sense. They have to defend EVERYTHING. Now, clearly the map is way too big to do this, so limit the potential Blue objectives to targets in a single group's operating area, 11 would seem logical. I'm presuming a map could have say, 10 objectives programmed in, but pick a random 3 from that list each time it is loaded, giving a bit of variety. These targets would have to be destroyed by "proper" bombers, not just jabos, although maybe 1 additional target could be spawned for the jabo flyers. Targets could have a strategic impact in the sense of shutting down spawn locations. For example, the mission spawns 3 main targets Manston & 2 factories. There's nothing stopping the Blues from bombing Hawkinge and shutting that down from being spawnable. Maybe have a timed repair crew, so if the airfield isn't bombed again in 30 minutes, the ground crews get it operational again?

I'd have AI bomber formations for Blue only, spawning in differing locations and tracking to the targets (Both key and subsidiary) on different routes. Red bombers would be limited to player control only, and probably no more than 20 planes being available period (I don't buy the "balance" argument at all, but for sake of catering to preference it should be there as a player only option). These bombers could be used to interdict enemy coastal movement, and attack selected logistical targets. Successful attacks could reduce the number of AI spawns due to lack of fuel for example.

Red get regular RADAR updates of plots and directions, but not the targets obviously.

Blue wins the map by destroying their targets through bombing, Red wins the map by inflicting bomber losses to an "unsustainable" level, say 50% losses.

This should force Blues to escort bombers, Red's to engage bombers, allow for Red bombers to have a role and Blue a chance of an intercept. Fighter on fighter furballs should naturally occur around the bombers, leading to a more "historical" situation but allowing everyone to get involved in the way they want to?

Probably way too complex and ambitious for me to do as a first effort, but perhaps something a group could collaborate on together?

Roblex
Jun-16-2013, 04:34
Not so much a new mission idea, more an 'adjustment' to present mission design methods:-

Please make sure there is always a choice as to where heavy bombers fly from and make them far apart. I was flying a spit over France yesterday and saw a human controlled He111 being shot down and knowing that Blue only had one target to destroy to finish the map I could be almost certain to find a He111 spawning in a few minutes at Tramecourt. I did, and he was a sitting duck and died before he left the ground. I decided to leave him alone and head home but he had obviously decided it was pointless respawning when I knew where he would be and he just logged off.

I frequently fly Blenheims and have the same problem i.e. as soon as Blue see a Blenheim on the list they can just head for Littlestone or Canterbury and I am dead meat. Asking for fighters to wait above my field as I spawn is only ever going to work on a squad night and even then it is trivial for a 109 to swoop through them all from altitude and fill me with cannon shells before they can stop him. I may be mistaken but I think the 111 pilots *only* have Tramecourt on most, if not all, maps. Obviously it is no that hard for the Reds to cover two or three 111 spawn points but at least it will make it harder for solo opportunists like me :D

=vit_unit=
Jun-16-2013, 05:10
Not so much a new mission idea, more an 'adjustment' to present mission design methods:-

Please make sure there is always a choice as to where heavy bombers fly from and make them far apart. I was flying a spit over France yesterday and saw a human controlled He111 being shot down and knowing that Blue only had one target to destroy to finish the map I could be almost certain to find a He111 spawning in a few minutes at Tramecourt. I did, and he was a sitting duck and died before he left the ground. I decided to leave him alone and head home but he had obviously decided it was pointless respawning when I knew where he would be and he just logged off.

I frequently fly Blenheims and have the same problem i.e. as soon as Blue see a Blenheim on the list they can just head for Littlestone or Canterbury and I am dead meat. Asking for fighters to wait above my field as I spawn is only ever going to work on a squad night and even then it is trivial for a 109 to swoop through them all from altitude and fill me with cannon shells before they can stop him. I may be mistaken but I think the 111 pilots *only* have Tramecourt on most, if not all, maps. Obviously it is no that hard for the Reds to cover two or three 111 spawn points but at least it will make it harder for solo opportunists like me :D
You was damn lucky. There were no cover at this time. And that 111 pilot trained to hit the targets and he lost too much time for that (more then 10 flights)...

Roblex
Jun-16-2013, 09:45
And that 111 pilot trained to hit the targets and he lost too much time for that (more then 10 flights)...

Could you explain that last bit about 'trained' and 'more than 10 flights'? Am I missing something about how the game works?