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philip.ed
Apr-08-2013, 15:54
I may be alone in thinking this, but I think the current damage model is not as extensive as what CloD originally shipped with (or what was initially planned for CloD)
Oleg once talked about how there were so many damage locations on all the A/C modelled, that your bullet's damage would basically be represented on the exact location each bullet hit (more or less).
Whilst it is difficult to believe all of Oleg's conjecture, there is a plethora of images available (published when the game was still SoW) to prove this

Take this excellent shot:
2563

At no point have I seen this kind of damage in-game. It is exceptional.

Can Team Fusion resurrect this beautiful work?

Indeed, on another slightly-less-related note, does anyone remember the shot below? Oleg 'promised' the user would basically be able to edit the light settings to a ridiculous extent in-game. This was never released, I don't think, but it is incredible to think what was planned for CloD. I don't suppose this kind of utility is anywhere in the files for CloD? It would certainly be a useful feature

2564

Cheers all!

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Apr-08-2013, 16:13
damage model is not as extensive as what CloD originally shipped with (or what was initially planned for CloD)

two entirely different questions, unfortunately ... what was shipped, and what was intended are not the same thing.

philip.ed
Apr-08-2013, 16:16
Aye, that is completely true, but I am sure the current damage modelling is not as extensive as what did initially ship.
I think it is axiomatic that Oleg intended more.

The question is, can the damage model be made better? because currently I will spray Heinkel's with little to no visible damage.

LizLemon
Apr-08-2013, 17:24
I believe one of the patches reduced the number of bullet holes that can appear on aircraft. This was probably done for performance reasons.

Dutch
Apr-08-2013, 18:36
I seem to recall some complaints from some people over on bananarama that damage looked more akin to flak damage than m/g damage and that it was reduced, partly because of performance issues and partly for the look.

Here's a shot of mine from the early days after unloading a Hurri's guns onto a Heinkel. As you can see, it looks a little overdone for m/g damage.....2565

philip.ed
Apr-08-2013, 18:52
It certainly is overdone. But currently this effect still exists. Spray a Heinkel with a SPitfire or a Hurricane and the visible damage looks like flak bursts.
The only difference is that there are only a few damage locations now, so the effects of the .303's looks a lot less destructive.

The update shot that I posted in my first post looks awesome.

Can Team Fusion look into this? Currently I spray the bombers with my .303 ammunition, and I can't see much visible impact. The planes should be littered with small-calibre bullet holes. Even Il-2 1946 models this better at the moment!

(For some reason if you spray a fighter there are a lot of bullet holes).

ATAG_Ribbs
Apr-08-2013, 19:59
I totally agreenwith you phillip.ed. Every one says they were removed for performance issues... could someone explain why they cause performance issues? Could they be redone and optimized to cause less strain on our systems? Lets face it, its one of the things that pulls us into WWII flight sims...putting lead on target and seeing the end result. We truely want to see the damage that we created with all the effects possible. I would hope that the TF guys are taking a good look at it with the new damage models they are working on.. :) Would be the icing on the cake!.. so to speak :coolio:

DUI
Apr-09-2013, 04:47
Seeing every single bullet hit would be great, but knowing that every bullet is identified on the right spot and has its effect is most important for me.

I really like the detailed damage reports on the SOW-Server:

01:18:37 AileronL1 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:18:37 WingL5 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 CF Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 ElecMasterCompassFailure Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 ElecSecNavigationFailure Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Eng0WaterJacketBroken Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Engine0 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 FuelTank0LargeLeak Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 FuelTank0SmallLeak Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 FuelTank0TinyLeak Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 FuelTank1SmallLeak Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 FuelTank1TinyLeak Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 LandingFlapL1 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 LandingFlapsKinematicFailure1 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 LandingFlapsKinematicFailure2 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Nose0 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Nose1 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Nose2 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Nose3 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Sponger03 Damaged by No.615_Siddich
01:19:05 Sponger08 Damaged by No.615_Siddich

Would love to have the damage statistic on ATAG back... :recon:

philip.ed
Apr-09-2013, 07:57
I don't really understand how this affected performance issues so severely. Maybe when the game was running abysmally, but it runs pretty sweet for me now (touch wood) so I would love to see this re-introduced if possible.

hint hint, Team Fusion :D

Continu0
Apr-09-2013, 09:06
I believe one of the patches reduced the number of bullet holes that can appear on aircraft. This was probably done for performance reasons.

I remember that as well. Before the devs rewrote the grapics-engine, those "small calibre hit decals" were visible and pretty impressive. With the rewriting of the grapics-engine, the devs faced problems with those small calibre hit decals and reported that they weren`t loaded correctly. They never managed to fix this and so they weren`t re-introduced in a patch...

philip.ed
Apr-09-2013, 11:57
That's great news. Team Fusion have access to the original game versions, so hopefully everything is there in the files.

Take a look at this photo. You can see the areas where the bullets strike. It certainly is impressive stuff!
http://www.checksix-fr.com/articles/Articles_html/inter_Oleg_Foxy/Oleg_interview_images/IMG_3050.jpg

The interview is here:
http://www.checksix-fr.com/articles/Articles_html/inter_Oleg_Foxy/interview_oleg_foxy_EN.html

Royraiden
Apr-09-2013, 12:52
Well if the team eventually gets to fiddle with the damage model lets hope they can work this out somehow.I hope it can be brought back.

Horde
Apr-11-2013, 23:24
I don't really understand how this affected performance issues so severely. Maybe when the game was running abysmally, but it runs pretty sweet for me now (touch wood) so I would love to see this re-introduced if possible.

hint hint, Team Fusion :D

My guess is it could be to do with network traffic online.

When a location is damaged and the texture and model needs to change, it needs to be broadcasted to all the other clients on the server so everyone sees the same thing.

When there is lots of damage occurring in a short space of time and lots of clients, that's a lot of information that needs to be synched up. Obv, the more detailed the damage model, the more information needs to be co-ordinated between clients. Could result in things like lag and desync etc if too much information needs to be sent.

So really I'm saying that even though the game could have more detailed damage textures/models and your PC might not have any problem rendering it on screen, 1C might have dropped it for MP performance reasons.

As I say though, just a guess.

Sorry for confusing post - it's really late and I should be in bed! :)

philip.ed
Apr-12-2013, 11:28
That certainly does make a lot of sense. In any case, I look forward to seeing if TF can address this issue :thumbsup: