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View Full Version : More 'Bomber' targets and less 'Fighter Bomber' targets



Roblex
May-06-2013, 06:27
I mentioned this in another thread but it is getting so annoying that I think it needs its own thread.

Most of the mission targets we have are too easy to destroy with 109s alone. The other day a formation of 9 109s closed the whole map on their own in about 30 minutes in a single sortie and while they should get kudos for getting their arses organised this should not be possible and makes defending the targets impossible and frustrating. A 109 can come in low and destroy the target then just climb away from anyone that comes down to investigate and if he gets seen before he reaches the target he can just ditch the bomb and escape or dogfight. A bomber would have to take the risk of coming in low to avoid detection then being stuck with staying low and running when the defenders come looking for him.

We can't do much about the fact that a 109 can destroy a ship then go off and play while the Allies need to take a vulnerable Blenny then RTB but there is a lot more we can do about ground targets. Bombers should be dispersed around the field, not huddled together to be taken out by a single 109 using bombs and cannon. Buildings should need more bombs than a single 109 can carry or be spread out over a few buildings that are out of each others blast radius. Someone was going to bring in a map that counted tonnage dropped on an airfield to close it but problems with other parts of the mission stopped it going live, is the tonnage part still viable? How about at least one vital target on either side that is beyond a fighter-bombers range (assuming that bombs do affect range)? We could end up with quite an exciting end-game where one side needs to organise an effective sweep and escort mission to get their bomber(s) to the target or several bombers at different levels. We do these sort of missions all the time on weekly scenario servers such as Storm Of War. Knowing what the single target is does not guarantee the defenders can keep it safe (and rarely does)

Gromit
May-06-2013, 07:23
I present my opinion here, not as a complaint, but as an observation of what I see as a problem with the missions as they stand.

If the server is to continue supporting ground attack missions for both sides, rather than just be a dogfight server it has to overcome a fundamental flaw in the plane sets!

We saw last night (again) a single Bf109 bomb and sink four ships on one attack, whilst this is utterly ridiculous from the point of realistic capabilities the fact was the ships were being capped by at least five Hurricanes and Spits, the Bf109 was able to dive in, bomb, then turn and fight the CAP, whilst the defending force was basically ignored during the attack despite firing on and hitting the attacker, put simply unless you score a pilot kill your wasting your time trying to defend the targets!

Then we have to look at the aircraft available for strike missions, the Blue team has the Bf109 and Bf110 which if used properly are fast enough to hit the targets before they can be engaged, then there's the Br20 which can sink the whole convoy or destroy the ground targets by itself , the Ju88 and he111 can destroy targets with one strike and then we are left with the Stuka, which in reality is a pointless aircraft as the Bf109b can do it's job far better at present!

In response the Red team fields the Blenhiem, which is not only too slow to avoid interception, is easy to spot, it's gunner is useless, it's incredibly vulnerable to the Blue flak and carries a pitifull bomb load, oh and you can barely see out of it!

If the missions are to be realistically viable for both sides the targets have to be selected to reflect the capabilities of both sides, at present the red team wins a map if the blues can't be bothered to cap their targets or no one is bombing.

but fundamentally something has to be done about the paper ships and closely grouped targets, or remove the 4x50 bomb load off the Bf109b as 50kg seems to have been mistaken with 50kt.

SG1_sandokito
May-06-2013, 07:28
On Friday night, we complete all target on 50 min, but we use 5 ju88 whit all bomb.

2 88 destroy al ships, 2 more 88 destroy g7.4 and one destroy f12, another people destroy j11.2.
We got this through coordination with fighters, because the fighters escort good to our bombers, and took away all the bad guys on the ships.

If you use only 109 e3B or e4B, you need a lot of 109 to destroy all target, this depend of the current mission.
I like the last mission added to the server, but it is true that the objectives are very easy .

ATAG_Knuckles
May-06-2013, 09:05
The Blenheim has always been my favorite. But unless you have a group of several, its sorta pointless. The ground targets have been the same for ages now and its gotten a bit redundant. Waiting to see what appears down the line. Not gonna complain as I cant help with the code writting, and certainly applaud those that have made wonderful advances in this sim. :stunned::salute:

Talisman
May-06-2013, 09:28
Lets face it, there has to be something wrong when maps can be easily finished by single engine fighter types alone. Also, if bombing was as easy as it is in CloD, the BoB would have been over in days, LOL. There is next to no chance of finding a single 109 before it is able to hit the target under current conditions; even when they come in at medium altitude there is no message from fighter controllers to intercept, the flak is mostly ineffective, targets stand out on the landscape for miles, there are no RAF dummy airfields and no barrage balloons (these could be used up to 5,000ft). In addition to the main AA defences, local defences had at least 1 machine gun for each mile of coast (not much I know, but at least it showed that the South of England was under attack and trying to defend itself). Moreover, aircraft were dispersed on airfields, not like the rows of Wellingtons at Redhill airbase that could hardly be any closer for easy destruction by the enemy (same thing goes for LW bombers on airfields in France that are targets for red bombers; they are too close and can be too easily destroyed by the RAF). It is like the map is set up for children at times.
As I have said before, surely at least one map could be set in line with the BoB timeline and involve RAF Fighter Command having to defend and survive for a set amount of time or destroy a % of LW bombers over a set time frame (to include red human bomber pilots attacking airfields) to win and the LW having to destroy a % of fighters to win; also to include % pilot losses due to capture or virtual death. The Dowding system of fighter aircraft control would need to be better represented than it is though and map makers would need to understand that the LW aircraft inventory was geared for attack and at this time of the war the RAF was geared to defend (RAF had more fighters than bomber and the LW had more bombers than fighters).
It is not all bad news though, at least we are using more of the map of the South of England now and the LW have some inland targets to hit these days rather than just coastal stuff.

1lokos
May-06-2013, 12:05
The problem is the game planeset are created to mimic BoB.

But online missions need to be created to please crowd, so some "balance" in tasks is need to avoid complaints...

I like fly in Blenheim, but find fool bombing static ships in France SW coast, because this is just... fantasy in BoB context.
Prefer bomb some barges in Calais, Dunkirk... but this kind of target are more difficult to hit, and more easy to defend with
flak and fighters from near airfields, which leads to "complaint balance" factor again...

Add to this the fact of attack planes are used in different way from RL, since "skip bombing" are not standard practice for time/planes involved...
Add slow - defenseless ships...

Sokol1

III./ZG76_Saipan
May-06-2013, 16:23
perhaps its just a matter of red coming up with some blenny pilots. red never has that many. Alot of times red has zero blenny pilots up.

red knows exactly where the blues are going so to say you cant find them isn't correct. red needs to form some proper CAP units and that comes down to team work. many months of flying and I have been intercepted once at the armour complex in B5. reds just don't bother....

Talisman
May-06-2013, 17:59
The problem is the game planeset are created to mimic BoB.

But online missions need to be created to please crowd, so some "balance" in tasks is need to avoid complaints...

I like fly in Blenheim, but find fool bombing static ships in France SW coast, because this is just... fantasy in BoB context.
Prefer bomb some barges in Calais, Dunkirk... but this kind of target are more difficult to hit, and more easy to defend with
flak and fighters from near airfields, which leads to "complaint balance" factor again...

Add to this the fact of attack planes are used in different way from RL, since "skip bombing" are not standard practice for time/planes involved...
Add slow - defenseless ships...

Sokol1

Yes, there is a lot of fantasy, LOL. I just thought that people who purchase and fly historic combat flight sims would want just that, but no, perhaps they just want crowd pleasing fantasy; but then why not fly space invaders or star wars then?

Talisman
May-06-2013, 18:06
perhaps its just a matter of red coming up with some blenny pilots. red never has that many. Alot of times red has zero blenny pilots up.

red knows exactly where the blues are going so to say you cant find them isn't correct. red needs to form some proper CAP units and that comes down to team work. many months of flying and I have been intercepted once at the armour complex in B5. reds just don't bother....

LOL, not that many Blenny pilots for reasons already stated. Most reds don't bother to intercept either, again, for reasons stated.

III./ZG76_Keller
May-06-2013, 18:25
I agree that the old "Bomber Night" mission has targets that are too easy to destroy, making them harder is one solution but I'd rather see both teams have many more targets. Both the red and blue bomber guys love hitting targets and completing objectives, but rolling the map is usually an unwanted side effect unless both teams are giving equal effort to bombing and defending.

A suggestion for the reds; use fighters or Blennies as recon planes. You can even let the Blenheim's AI gunner call out contacts. I will often fly a Bf-110 at 8000m and watch Blenheims take off at Littlestone and Canterbury and relay the info to the fighters that are at lower altitudes and looking to intercept. Also, when you see a Blenheim in the players list, escort him! I can count the number of times I've seen a Blenheim with escort on one hand.

III./ZG76_Saipan
May-06-2013, 18:47
LOL, not that many Blenny pilots for reasons already stated. Most reds don't bother to intercept either, again, for reasons stated.

so why doesn't red intercept? I see no reason.

camber
May-06-2013, 23:43
I am a red pilot who started trying to intercept manned raids on objectives and then gave up because I didn't find it an enjoyable use of my limited flying time. I should say I am probably Joe Average pilot...after a day at work trying to herd cats and practise good communication skills, I am quite content to sneak around the map in solo fashion, sneak up behind 109s and say hello. Obviously solo I would not expect to destroy a raid, but would expect to scare it or even harm it.

My experience has been that the nature of CloD and the widespread objectives meant a long lonely pointless CAP after a very long flight. Generally I could expect to spend my whole sortie orbiting and seeing no one, even with a glass of wine this wasn't as fun as free hunting. Specific problems are: distant contacts are quite hard to spot, the in-game voice intercept data is not really useful, the targets are very dispersed, and very quick to be destroyed by blue skilled pilots, and finally one planeload of 303s don't generally stop a bomber from hitting the objective.

Once in position near a blue objective I could expect to:

1) Guess the exact direction of incoming raid and get it slightly wrong. I would see black flak all over the vicinity as I wildly turned back toward the target, and get a glimpse of a Ju88 or 109B as it already had unloaded and instantly got the objective. Doh!

2) Orbit RIGHT OVER the target this time. 30 mins pass. Black Flak appears all around!!! Ju88 is 10 seconds away from target, oddly enough where the black flak is lightest (drunk AA gunners?) Fly intercept, almost manage to get some bullets into 88 before it destroys target. Doh! Reposition, almost manage to get some bullets into 88 before it crash lands about 1km away from target with flak damage. Fly home depressed.

I was there on the great map rolling time described in this thread.....For two maps in a row that I was there the clock read 5:15 when the map rolled, i.e. it took 45 mins. Kudos to blue, I would do the same. But don't be too hard on Reds not doing the same thing in Blennies, it is about the same as Blue only having Stukas to get the objectives. You would still get a few diehards trying to do it, but not many or very often!

This is certainly not a complaint, ATAG + TF is fantastic and map design can never be all things to all people.

Cheers, camber

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-07-2013, 07:26
so why doesn't red intercept? I see no reason.

Here's why;

1. You have to predict the approach direction and altitude correctly, otherwise you won't be there to get him

2. If you wait "over the target" you'll only see the enemy when he is 5 miles or less from the objective. It takes a 109E4 less than one minute to cover that distance at 480kph (slow for a 109 in a dive). If you are doing less than 480kph when you spot him, you will not be able to catch him, UNLESS you have the height advantage -> which means you need to make sure your defensive height is ABOVE the 109 approach height, but no so much height that you can't close the gap within half a minute!

3. The higher above the target you wait, the greater the chance that thew 109s will fly below and you'll miss them.

4. Red could try to head out over the channel and try and meet the 109s mid-path. But to properly set up a defensive screen, you'd need about 5 or 6 spitfires spread from Manston to Dungeness. As soon as one or two got shot down, you'd need to send replacements -> Who's going to coordinate this? The blues will always slip through the net.

5. It's a computer game, so bombers can kamikaze the target and still destroy it (both sides can do this)

Besides all of the above, we red do try and intercept... not all the time, but often. We try and set up defences on the French side of our ships to stop the 110s. We get some 110 kills, but we can only stay there for a short while then our ammo runs out. We need to be able to supply a constant stream of replacement fighters. But this stream dries up suddenly as soon as a 109 shows up over Hawkinge and we can't get out to the ships. A red defensive screen usually has an effective duration of between 5 and 10 minutes. How can we get out to the ships with a staggered 2,000ft, 8,000ft and 15,000ft effective umbrella in pairs (at least 6 aircraft) completely unmolested? As soon as someone calls out for help down and Lympne or Dover, the defence has to break up. As soon as the umbrella is compromised the whole thing falls apart. As soon as a 109 drops in from 19,000ft and attacks the mid-height defensive pair, then zooms back up to 17,000ft - then both of the top cover sections are compromised. The umbrella falls apart.

Defending for extended periods against fast moving pin-point attacks with these small, weak targets is damn near impossible. It requires map-scale coordination from 10+ players.

Sometimes the best defecne is to simply head over to France and try to wallop the blues before they get height, or even while they are still on the ground.

ATAG_Snapper
May-07-2013, 08:37
Good replies, Camber and Phil.

ATAG_Snapper
May-07-2013, 08:51
I second Keller's thought that there should be more targets and harder to destroy.

As someone already mentioned, aircraft were never arranged in nice, neat rows on an airfield, they were dispersed around an airfield's perimeter and difficult to see.

I would love to see more Blue AI bombers which are targeting map objectives. This would bring the fight much higher as more Red fighters would rise to meet them and more Blue fighters would be escorting them to ensure they got through to target. At present the AI bombers are there almost for show, with the exception of the Blue bombers hammering Hawkinge which poses a momentary danger for any Red fighters spawning in or landing there.

Lots of targets for both sides to hit would ensure that there remains lots of trade for human-flown bomber pilots of both sides. Perhaps flak levels could be increased (or at least maintained) at the airfields, but reduced at the targets. I don't fly the bombers, but I can certainly understand the frustration of the bomber pilots of both sides to be sidelined by a flak burst after spending the best part of an hour flying a circuitous route avoiding the opposing fighters. Perhaps flak could start off as sparse at a target site, then ramp up in intensity as repeat bombing runs are made (if this is possible).

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-07-2013, 08:58
As someone already mentioned, aircraft were never arranged in nice, neat rows on an airfield, they were dispersed around an airfield's perimeter and difficult to see.
.

I would like to see targets placed like this at airfields which the defenders do NOT take off from.

Gromit
May-07-2013, 09:17
it's fantasy to think you can spot then stop a 109 doing nigh on 300mph on the deck, mostly because you can't see them, if you fly low enough to spot incomers you then end up a sitting duck when the 109's up high come down and swat you then zoom back up to 15k in seconds!
The real problem is you simply can't see them on the deck, we have had five or more reds capping the ships, and only known of the presence of a 109 when a ship blows up despite scanning constantly, even then they are hard to spot, and that's the real issue which makes defending targets a waste of time, even 110 and ju88's are difficult to spot but 109's are damn near invisible unless you get right down on the deck, then you cant catch them or do enough damage to them to stop the attack!

we regularly see 109's with the 4x50kg bomb load press on to their target with several spits chasing them knowing the spits or hurries cant do enough damage to stop them, I often hit these guys with a deflection shot as a tail chase with a hurri is a waste of time even from a dive but unless you get a pilot kill your wasting your time, you have to hammer a 109 with a huge number of hits before it loses any manuverability or speed, as I mentioned above, the plane set is the issue, until this is addressed missions are always going to be a one sided deal!

Oh and the reason we often don't escort a Blennie is because he has more chance sneaking in than with a group of contacts to give his position away, and even if you do escort them the 109's kill them before you can do enough damage to the 109, it's called being stuck between a rock and a hard place!

ATAG_Knuckles
May-07-2013, 10:02
I certainly agree with gromit: I never request an escort: I go in less than 100', even if discovered I can often loose the 109 by staying low and reversing course, then on his next pass I'm no where near where she though I would be :D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-07-2013, 10:10
Gromit and Knuckles are right about Blenheim tactics.
Get in and out fast.

There's good reason why this works, and if the aircraft was faster (say 110 speed, or even 109 speed) then the tactic would simply be more effective.

The best way to escort the Blenheim is to fly on ahead of her and create havoc over the blue bases to keep the 109s tied down. This works exactly the same way the blue fighter tactics work - keep the reds busy over their own bases so they can't stop the 110s.

An effective defensively positioned fighter screen in this game has not yet been demonstrated.

Talisman
May-07-2013, 10:45
Just one map to more faithfully represent the BoB would be great :)) I am all for variety (it is the spice of life) and would not wish to see all maps the same. I think it would be a logical step to have at least one map aimed more towards BoB action. It would add to the mix and, after all, CloD is supposed to represent 1940 isn't it?
I would still expect blue to win such a map in the majority of cases, because CloD has its limitations, but at least it would be historical aerial action and if designed well it could give some great aerial combat opportunities, almost guaranteed contact with the other side for each sortie, human verses human, and offer bomber pilots greater satisfaction too.
ATAG map makers are doing a good job and those of us who know nothing of mission building, like me, are lucky to benefit from their work. I must say that I have had some great fun on the maps so far, but I do feel that there is a gap in the map rotation for a more historical BoB scenario.

Happy landings all,

Talisman

Little_D
May-07-2013, 10:48
Hi gents,

the biggest problem here is the map/mission/target design, thats all.

if we had nice build targets, that need more than 1 atack to be destroyed, it would be complet different.
we need targets, that need up to 2 - 3 atacks, even if the atacker has a 90% hit on the target. if less %, than maby 4-6 atacks are needed to kill a target. so you have a change to defend the target.

to the visibillity, i can say i have no probs to see cons from 5000m down on the deck, even over water, its hard and you can only see them, because you see something is moving, but it is possible.
if you fly cap over an target the alt is you decision, but what ever you do, you need to whatch your six, most your high six :-), the rest is pilotskill.
i can remamber me of lots of cap mission over an target at 4000m and get bounced from higher enemys, because i was to concentrated to look at the cap-target.
you dont realy need to coordinat +10 people to cover a target, it will come from allown, you have pilots that like to fly at low, medium and high alt, so with a good missiondesign the players will come from allown to the
targets to cover/atack it at different alts.

back in the good old times of Warbirds of Prey, they had good map/mission/target design an you know, without coordination of the other pilot you will find at all alts frindly planes that cover the target and you know there will be enemy at different alts to atack the target.

its all about map/mission/target design, nothing more, the rest come from allown. but as long as we have this maps on atag with targets that are easy to kill, maps with no semi-historical missions, etc. nothing will change.

when i first come to atag i was reading air tactical combat group and i was thinking wow this sounds like what you are searching for, tactical/(semi)historical mission/map design, but that was a fallacy, the server is a better acarde-server.
i dont like this, but i like the people that fly on atag and its the only server that has enough players on, to have a little bit of fun with my hobby :-) but i think when BoS comes out and nothing will change here i will go back to Warbirds of Prey
(if they build missions for BoS like they did fro 1946) if not i will search for an other server or quite simflying over short or long, because the fun to fly missions, mapbattles, bombernights, etc, depents on the mission/map/target design and this went down with CoD from 100% fun to 50% fun or less.

regards

Little_D

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-07-2013, 10:59
Hi gents,
the biggest problem here is the map/mission/target design, thats all.


Agreed Little_D.
I appreciate your reply.

III./ZG76_Saipan
May-07-2013, 11:41
stay close to the targets and watch the flack, i've done countless circles waiting for a Blenheim to pop up on radar while over the Kriegsmarine.



Here's why;

1. You have to predict the approach direction and altitude correctly, otherwise you won't be there to get him ( tab 7-1 , 90% of the time its a low level attack)

2. If you wait "over the target" you'll only see the enemy when he is 5 miles or less from the objective. It takes a 109E4 less than one minute to cover that distance at 480kph (slow for a 109 in a dive). If you are doing less than 480kph when you spot him, you will not be able to catch him, UNLESS you have the height advantage -> which means you need to make sure your defensive height is ABOVE the 109 approach height, but no so much height that you can't close the gap within half a minute!

( tab 7-1 , 90% of the time its a low level attack, once again you now the direction, once again 90% of the time time its a low level attack)


3. The higher above the target you wait, the greater the chance that thew 109s will fly below and you'll miss them. once again tab 7-1

4. Red could try to head out over the channel and try and meet the 109s mid-path. But to properly set up a defensive screen, you'd need about 5 or 6 spitfires spread from Manston to Dungeness. As soon as one or two got shot down, you'd need to send replacements -> Who's going to coordinate this? The blues will always slip through the net. (almost nightly blue has at least 5 independent people who work together, the same person coordinates us over and over. red cant coordinate? get it together its not hard)



5. It's a computer game, so bombers can kamikaze the target and still destroy it (both sides can do this)

Besides all of the above, we red do try and intercept... not all the time, but often. We try and set up defences on the French side of our ships to stop the 110s. We get some 110 kills, but we can only stay there for a short while then our ammo runs out. We need to be able to supply a constant stream of replacement fighters. But this stream dries up suddenly as soon as a 109 shows up over Hawkinge and we can't get out to the ships. A red defensive screen usually has an effective duration of between 5 and 10 minutes. How can we get out to the ships with a staggered 2,000ft, 8,000ft and 15,000ft effective umbrella in pairs (at least 6 aircraft) completely unmolested? As soon as someone calls out for help down and Lympne or Dover, the defence has to break up. As soon as the umbrella is compromised the whole thing falls apart. As soon as a 109 drops in from 19,000ft and attacks the mid-height defensive pair, then zooms back up to 17,000ft - then both of the top cover sections are compromised. The umbrella falls apart.

last night may 6, red did put up a good fight over the ships, so it can be done

Defending for extended periods against fast moving pin-point attacks with these small, weak targets is damn near impossible. It requires map-scale coordination from 10+ players.

some targets are weak, but some are very tough, I try to avoid radar at g7 at all cost, even once a side gets down to the last target just call in all resources on that target. Ive seen that happen a little on the G7.4 target, due to its proximity to Lympne)

Sometimes the best defecne is to simply head over to France and try to wallop the blues before they get height, or even while they are still on the ground.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
May-07-2013, 12:09
can't red coordinate?, get it together.

Actulaly no, we can't.

Here's how it works on our coms channel on TS

Spitfire pilot A: "I'm under attack by 2 109s at Dover, 4,000ft"

Silence: (is silent)

Spitfire pilot A: "hey guys, I'm now down on the deck just south of dover with two 109s"

Silence: (continues to be silent)

Spitfire Pilot A: "OK I'm down.. he got my engine"

Spitfire Pilot B: Enemy A.I. Dorniers heading in to Hawkinge, about 10 miles out

Spitfire Pilot C: Where?
Spitifre pilot D: Where did you sayt he bombers were?
Spitfire Pilot E: I'm just climbing up now to Hawkinge
Spitfire Pilot F: Bombers? Where?
Spitfire Pilot G: OK I see them
Spitfire Pilot H: Damn, they'll all be gone by the time I get there
Spitfire Pilot I: Did someone say there were bombers?
Spitfire Pilot B: They're just going feet dry now at Hawkinge, 15,000ft
Hurricane Pilot A: OK, I'll see if I can climb up...
Spitfire Pilot F: I still can't see those bombers...
Spitfire Pilot C: OK they're all down now

5 minutes later

Spitfire Pilot F: Hey where did you guys say those bombers were?

SG1_sandokito
May-07-2013, 12:35
Actulaly no, we can't.

Here's how it works on our coms channel on TS

Spitfire pilot A: "I'm under attack by 2 109s at Dover, 4,000ft"

Silence: (is silent)

Spitfire pilot A: "hey guys, I'm now down on the deck just south of dover with two 109s"

Silence: (continues to be silent)

Spitfire Pilot A: "OK I'm down.. he got my engine"

Spitfire Pilot B: Enemy A.I. Dorniers heading in to Hawkinge, about 10 miles out
Spitfire Pilot C: Where?
Spitifre pilot D: Where did you sayt he bombers were?
Spitfire Pilot E: I'm just climbing up now to Hawkinge
Spitfire Pilot F: Bombers? Where?
Spitfire Pilot G: OK I see them
Spitfire Pilot H: Damn, they'll all be gone by the time I get there
Spitfire Pilot I: Did someone say there were bombers?
Spitfire Pilot B: They're just going feet dry now at Hawkinge, 15,000ft
Hurricane Pilot A: OK, I'll see if I can climb up...
Spitfire Pilot F: I still can't see those bombers...
Spitfire Pilot C: OK they're all down now

5 minutes later

Spitfire Pilot F: Hey where did you guys say those bombers were?

Jajajajaj,we have the same problem on our ts channel, and now we use whisper, and only 3 or 4 109 on one channel.

Normally I fly bombers, and use whisper to communicate to our 109 "escolta, sorry i do not how can i say this in english" and the chat to communicate to the rest of 109 players, using this system, we get better coordination.

THX and sorry for mu bad English

Roblex
May-07-2013, 16:29
My squadron regularly volunteers to cap a target on squad nights but despite having 6 to 8 fighters in a coordinated pattern at varying altitudes the first thing we see of the enemy is flak appearing over the target and a single 109 running away with his job done. When you have just spent 30 minutes getting everyone up and into the ideal positions it is unbelievably annoying.

Asking Ground Control for bearings is worse than useless as it will sit there telling us there is nothing closer than 15 miles even as the target is blowing up! Patrolling over France you can be sitting looking at a formation of bombers due West and heading for England while GC is telling you that the only bombers are 15 miles away on a bearing of 120.

Little_D
May-07-2013, 18:02
Actulaly no, we can't.

Here's how it works on our coms channel on TS

Spitfire pilot A: "I'm under attack by 2 109s at Dover, 4,000ft"

Silence: (is silent)

Spitfire pilot A: "hey guys, I'm now down on the deck just south of dover with two 109s"

Silence: (continues to be silent)

Spitfire Pilot A: "OK I'm down.. he got my engine"

Spitfire Pilot B: Enemy A.I. Dorniers heading in to Hawkinge, about 10 miles out

Spitfire Pilot C: Where?
Spitifre pilot D: Where did you sayt he bombers were?
Spitfire Pilot E: I'm just climbing up now to Hawkinge
Spitfire Pilot F: Bombers? Where?
Spitfire Pilot G: OK I see them
Spitfire Pilot H: Damn, they'll all be gone by the time I get there
Spitfire Pilot I: Did someone say there were bombers?
Spitfire Pilot B: They're just going feet dry now at Hawkinge, 15,000ft
Hurricane Pilot A: OK, I'll see if I can climb up...
Spitfire Pilot F: I still can't see those bombers...
Spitfire Pilot C: OK they're all down now

5 minutes later

Spitfire Pilot F: Hey where did you guys say those bombers were?

Hi Philstyle,

LOL, this is the reason, why i only like a max of for 4 pilots in 1 channel and only if they fly together, even in to seperatet wings. the rest i do over "wisper" with max of 2 other 4 pilots channels, than you can coordinate :-), and only the flightleaders are talking to each other over wisper. maby you cant talk to all your friends, but makes it mutch easyer to coordinat the action in a mission :-).

regards

Little_D