gun sound of british fighters

[oho]

is there a way to get the stock-gun sound back without uninstalling TF?

[AKA_Knutsac]

is there a way to get the stock-gun sound back without uninstalling TF?

Why-o-why? Go have a listen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PjLpqWFFEo about the 1:30 mark then imagine eight of these firing together. I think TF about nailed it.

~S~

AKA Knutsac

[Dutch]

What for?

I personally downloaded a sample of a Browning .303 sound, dropped it into an audio editor, multiplied it eight times, got a horrendous flanging problem, adjusted the timing of the eight tracks to eliminate the flanging, looped it, and still couldn't get anywhere near the sound we have. It is very very difficult to get these samples to sound credible and more importantly, continuous.

The amount of work put in by the chap responsible for the sound you have was huge. Just be grateful. :thumbsup:

[ATAG_JTDawg]

What for?

I personally downloaded a sample of a Browning .303 sound, dropped it into an audio editor, multiplied it eight times, got a horrendous flanging problem, adjusted the timing of the eight tracks to eliminate the flanging, looped it, and still couldn't get anywhere near the sound we have. It is very very difficult to get these samples to sound credible and more importantly, continuous.

The amount of work put in by the chap responsible for the sound you have was huge. Just be grateful. :thumbsup:

Agree , think slip did a fine job ! we even talked about this , you can't please everyone. an never will . but for most of us it was a huge improvement

[miky]

Why-o-why? Go have a listen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PjLpqWFFEo about the 1:30 mark then imagine eight of these firing together. I think TF about nailed it.

~S~

AKA Knutsac

You can not rely on videos recorded who knows how, and then compressed on Youtube. I have a lot of experience with Browning 0.3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun), and with FN MAG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_MAG) and a new sound it is completely different. In addition it is not like the sound of a machine gun at all. Try to listen with the muffled engine. I am very grateful to all TF team, but sorry the sound of the Browning is not right.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

You can not rely on videos recorded who knows how, and then compressed on Youtube. I have a lot of experience with Browning 0.3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun), and with FN MAG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_MAG) and a new sound it is completely different. In addition it is not like the sound of a machine gun at all. Try to listen with the muffled engine. I am very grateful to all TF team, but sorry the sound of the Browning is not right.

Might not be able to "rely" on videos, but they certainly contribute to the evidence pool.

To suggest that "it's not like the sound of a machine gun at all" is obviously a gross exaggeration. There are many people on these forums who have worked with and fired automatic weapons. In addition, there are those who have experience with the brownig .303 and .50 weapons.

Here's more examples of browning aircraft weapons being fired, these ones, from an aircraft as recorded on ground level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiYDP74HIEs

Immediately prior to the doppler as the aircraft starts flying away, the sound is remarkably close to what we have with the patch.

[miky]

Let's leave 0.50. This is a completely different matter :)
At what distances recorded this video? A hundred/s meters? I've never been between 8 machine guns, but many times between two/ three. This is not a crackle, sometimes it can even be painful. 8 machine guns from a distance of several meters!!!

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Let's leave 0.50. This is a completely different matter :)
At what distances recorded this video? A hundred/s meters? I've never been between 8 machine guns, but many times between two/ three. This is not a crackle, sometimes it can even be painful. 8 machine guns from a distance of several meters!!!

Why leave the .50 out? You stated it sounding "nothing like a machine gun", not "nothing like a .303 browning".
The .303 is a machine gun, so is the .50 - same manufacturer even. I'm using your own standards to make the comparison. Change the goalposts much?

If you're worried about the volume "crackle/ painful" that's an entirely different issue. Most PC speakers cannot reproduce the sound pressure required to cause the necessary pain to your ears.

How's about you actually produce something so we can see how it should sound then, rather than just "completely different" and "painful"?
Those kinds of descriptions don't really help anybody.

[Gromit]

Let's leave 0.50. This is a completely different matter :)
At what distances recorded this video? A hundred/s meters? I've never been between 8 machine guns, but many times between two/ three. This is not a crackle, sometimes it can even be painful. 8 machine guns from a distance of several meters!!!

I assume the two/three were either 240G(GPMG) or M60?

think of that sound then think of the ziiiiip of a minigun, it's all about rate of fire, 8x Browning are firing at 10,000 rounds a minute, the overlapping pulses sound more like a buzz than a rattle, I was always intrigued by the difference between our GPMG's and the German MG3 on the ranges, the MG3 sounded more like a riiiip sound than the bambambambambam sound of our GPMG's, the MG3 was firing at approx. 1200rpm just like the Brownings whreas our GPMG fired at 700-900 rpm , same cartridge completely different sound!

put eight MG3's together and I bet the sound we get is reasonably close!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Interesting discussion.

I am no expert, but I have life long experience with firearms, including doing my share of time in the butts at various military target ranges.

One aspect not really discussed in this thread is that there is no echo effect off the ground nor surrounding terrain/buildings with the majority of shooting situations in this sim. Coupled to the increasingly thin air above 10 angels and I would expect the guns' report to be quite flat-sounding as represented in the TF patch. Throw in the roar of paired exhaust manifolds of a Rolls Royce Merlin engine barely six feet away on either side of the pilot's head, and I would say that the somewhat muffled sound of guns we hear from inside the closed cockpit is very well done with this patch.

There is no indication of what sound recording equipment was used in the Youtube video, but it stands to reason that it was at least of the same broadcast quality as the video component. The Youtube compression would not adversely affect the sound of the firing machinegun any more than it affected the quality of the narrator's voice, which was very good. I was more impressed that the sound did not sound peaked out, indicating that the audio gain must have been turned down quite low for the firing sequences.

Slippy, please do not change a thing on those guns!

[miky]

Why leave the .50 out? You stated it sounding "nothing like a machine gun", not "nothing like a .303 browning".
The .303 is a machine gun, so is the .50 - same manufacturer even. I'm using your own standards to make the comparison. Change the goalposts much?

Did you ever heard 0.5? If yes, then I do not understand how you compare 0.3 with 0.5. If not...


If you're worried about the volume "crackle/ painful" that's an entirely different issue. Most PC speakers cannot reproduce the sound pressure required to cause the necessary pain to your ears.

I use some good headphones (Ultrasone Pro 900). The problem is the sound itself and not the volume.


How's about you actually produce something so we can see how it should sound then, rather than just "completely different" and "painful"?
Those kinds of descriptions don't really help anybody.

I'm sorry, I'm not audio recording engineer. But I had shot a few hundreds of thousands of 7.62 rounds, and familiar with the sound of the shot and Browning 0.3 in particular.


I assume the two/three were either 240G(GPMG) or M60?

2 FN MAG / Browning 0.3 and 1 Browning 0.5.

P.S.

Snapper, You can mute the engine and open the cockpit :)

[kg55_Kaiser]

I have never heard the sound of this machine gun, but I want to draw your attention to the quality of the recording at elevated dB,
noise from a machine gun around 120 - 130 dB,
such pressure on microphone diaphragm does not give capture the entire frequency range,
besides automatic recording level flogs her greatly.

For example:

Here in this video, the sound "Kalashnikov" (AKM) on the far distance is different from the sound at close distance
in a positive way because of less pressure dB

http://youtu.be/ytomxWYDgyM


This video is the same sound attenuation,
listen at the end of shooting, as the recording level is beginning to recover,
and again we hear the voices and applause.

http://youtu.be/0PjLpqWFFEo?t=2m14s

[ATAG_Snapper]

With all due respect, you can't possibly compare these two recordings in terms of sound quality. The first is an amateur video with very basic in-camera recording incorporating Automatic Gain Control. The second is an edited professional recording with a cameraman and a sound man. The sound man would definitely ensure that ALL sounds would be recorded in full fidelity, which would include optimal standoff distance to which he would manually adjust his gain. He would NOT be using automatic gain -- that would get him laughed out of the business!!!!

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

I'm sorry, I'm not audio recording engineer.

Our guy is.

[Kodoss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugBpAombpgs

10:15 browning 303 vs 20 mm MG comparison...

[AKA_Knutsac]

Keep in mind the rate of fire. The aircraft version of the Browning M1919 fired at around 1200 rpm, I believe most .30 cal machine guns used by ground forces (eg M1919, M60, M240) fire at around 700 rpm. 1,200 x 8 = 9,600 rpm, likely with some sound variation because of slight differences in timing between guns. High cyclic rate, no matter the caliber (eg. M134 mini gun, M61 Vulcan) is still going to sound like a "brrrruuuurrrrp".

~S~

AKA Knutsac

[miky]

Our guy is.

I really like the new sound of Merlin. But he has experience with real machine guns (sound)? The YouTube can not be an example, check out two professionally recorded videos on this page, 2 different sound (I'm not talking about the rate of fire).

http://youtu.be/0PjLpqWFFEo?t=2m14s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ugBpAombpgs
10:40 browning .303


Keep in mind the rate of fire. The aircraft version of the Browning M1919 fired at around 1200 rpm, I believe most .30 cal machine guns used by ground forces (eg M1919, M60, M240) fire at around 700 rpm. 1,200 x 8 = 9,600 rpm, likely with some sound variation because of slight differences in timing between guns. High cyclic rate, no matter the caliber (eg. M134 mini gun, M61 Vulcan) is still going to sound like a "brrrruuuurrrrp".

~S~

AKA Knutsac

We had a couple of the Browning 0.5 - aircraft version. They have a different rpm, but the basic sound is about the same.

[AKA_Knutsac]

"2 different sound (I'm not talking about the rate of fire)."

I think I get what your saying, but I still think the rof has a lot to do with how we perceive the sounds. From my own experience, the M-14, M-60, and M-2 in single-shot or short bursts seemed to make more of the "crack" sounds that can be painful w/o hearing protection. However, the 20mm Vulcan, a bigger gun with a much higher rof didn't seem as jarring a noise. Decibels where probably similar or higher, but the "brrrrrrrrrrap" of the Vulcan just didn't seem to make as much of a racket (the soothing sound of a rotary cannon?).

As someone else mentioned too, I wonder how loud the guns would sound in comparison to the 12 open exhaust stubs sitting a few feet in front of you...and you're wearing a helmet with headphones. When the new mg sounds where introduced I too was a bit taken aback; they just weren't what I was used to hearing. But upon further consideration, I think the new sounds are probably much more realistic.

~S~

AKA Knutsack

[kg55_Kaiser]

He would NOT be using automatic gain -- that would get him laughed out of the business!!!!

You did not pay attention to fizz after the shots,
please listen again this record.

http://youtu.be/0PjLpqWFFEo?t=2m14s

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

"2 different sound (I'm not talking about the rate of fire)."
I think I get what your saying, but I still think the rof has a lot to do with how we perceive the sounds.

Absolutely the rate of fire is important. The sound waves will do all sorts of funny things when they're stacking on each other, and overlapping.
5 x .303 rounds placed 1 second apart will sound, to the ear, very different from 5 x .303 rounds firing within half a second of each other.

The sound pressures within the barrel and the firing mechanism of the weapon will also have entirely different characteristics when the weapon is firing the second round before the sound pressures from the first round have dissipated.

Suffice to say, you can't just get an audio file of a single .303 bullet being fired and then replicate it however many times per second you need for your rate of fire.

[Gorgon14]

Keep in mind the rate of fire. The aircraft version of the Browning M1919 fired at around 1200 rpm, I believe most .30 cal machine guns used by ground forces (eg M1919, M60, M240) fire at around 700 rpm. 1,200 x 8 = 9,600 rpm, likely with some sound variation because of slight differences in timing between guns. High cyclic rate, no matter the caliber (eg. M134 mini gun, M61 Vulcan) is still going to sound like a "brrrruuuurrrrp".

~S~

AKA Knutsac

This^^^:salute:

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

We had a couple of the Browning 0.5 - aircraft version. They have a different rpm, but the basic sound is about the same.

"stop comparing the .50 to the .303" is what you said earlier. Now you're making exactly the same comparison.
Why are you able to make this comparison, but no-one else is?

You've said youtube clips cannot be used as examples.... then you've posted two youtube clips?

I'm more convinced than ever now, that the TF patch sounds have it right.
All we need to do is find an ex-RAF Spitfire armourer and get their opinion.

[Black]

Interesting discussion but i think it leads nowhere, the gunsounds as they are now appear much more realistic to me then the once before the TF Patch, they might not be perfect but after hearing the real sound of the .303 i think they come pretty close! Theres also a difference between firing a single gun on a field and firing eight guns simultaneously that are all mounted inside a wing (not mentioning the huge Merlin in front of you and the fact that you hear sounds different at 300mph in several thousand feet high!

I have no experience in recording gunshots and never fired such calibers myself but my amateur instinct tells me that the guns in game might be a little too loud and that the sound could be more dull!

Anyway, I am happy with the sound that we allready have and let the TF guys decide about the details, the patch has proved that they know what they are doing :salute:

[Dutch]

This is the sound I got when fiddling around with sound samples, but I stress that I could not get this sound to loop cleanly, even after I'd trimmed the ends off the second one.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7dY36zZ61A&feature=youtube_gdata

[1lokos]

I like the current .303 sound (TF), the only caveat is that it should be reversed: that is heard outside the aircraft (less bass) be heard in the cockpit (currently more bass).

Sokol1

[miky]

"stop comparing the .50 to the .303" is what you said earlier. Now you're making exactly the same comparison.
Why are you able to make this comparison, but no-one else is?

I compared the aircraft version of the Browning 0.5 to 0.5 used by ground forces. You know why? Because I have enough experience with both.


You've said youtube clips cannot be used as examples.... then you've posted two youtube clips?

Before answering read attentively what I wrote. Оnce again:


The YouTube can not be an example, check out two professionally recorded videos on this page, 2 different sound (I'm not talking about the rate of fire).

http://youtu.be/0PjLpqWFFEo?t=2m14s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ugBpAombpgs
10:40 browning .303

Is that clear?

This file approximately sound like a real gun 0.3/7.62.
2839

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

I have to agree with Knutsac and Phil that rate of fire is a very large part of the sound. I have experiance with the mini guns in hueys and AC 47's (now ac 130). They fired a 7.62mm round at rates from 3000-6000 (in the Spooky). The difference was easily detectable. It sounded like a long burb (after chugging a guiness) at highest rates. I'm not saying the OP is wrong about the spit sound itself, only that ROF is absolutely relavant.

PS: Dutch, that sounds pretty good actually and a bit different to my ears than what I hear ingame.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

I
Is that clear?

This file approximately sound like a real gun 0.3/7.62.
2839

No. not clear at all, sorry. I'm more confused now than before...
You said "check out two professionally recorded videos on this page" - -but there was only two youtube videos linked in your post, I thought those were the videos you wanted me to check out.... I didn't find any other "professional recorded videos" you were referring to.

I cannot extract your winrar file from work. I will listen tonight.


Break it down for an idiot like me:

1. What, precisely is the problem with this recording of the Browning .303 as used in the Spitfire:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15660438 (~2mins)

2. Why, given the similarity with the sounds coming from the below videos of a P40, can we not take the two videos (including the above) as very good evidence for how these types of weapons sound?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVOfjU1A-mE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTYGDVrZQPI


Notice the impact of the Doppler effect on the sound in the first of the two videos. Also the second video has the 4-MG version P-40N, whilst the first video (flying) has the 6-MG version. You can hear how different the two sound. The second video, behind the weapons with no Doppler effect is a more "pulsating" sound typical of many online MG sound effects. The first video, of the airborne live firing has an entirely different character of sound, much more similar to the Browning .303 in the first video. There are other videos of the 6-MG P40 firing it's guns, it sounds very different to the 4-MG version.

3. On what basis can we ignore (or dismiss) rate of fire, if that's what you're arguing?

[DennydD]

Gentlemen there is nothing wrong about a good discussion like this but I think this one got a bit sidetracked.


is there a way to get the stock-gun sound back without uninstalling TF?

This is the question in the OP. Maybe somebody could show oho how to do it or create a little mod for him?

Just my 2 cents.

[miky]

No. not clear at all, sorry. I'm more confused now than before...
You said "check out two professionally recorded videos on this page" - -but there was only two youtube videos linked in your post, I thought those were the videos you wanted me to check out.... I didn't find any other "professional recorded videos" you were referring to.

The two videos have completely different sound. The sounds coming from the videos of a P40 is also completely different. Now we have 4 different examples. Which one is correct? IMHO none of them, but the last one is the best. And the sound in the game is very different from him.


On what basis can we ignore (or dismiss) rate of fire, if that's what you're arguing?

I have no problems with the rate of fire.

[Lowe]

Can anybody answer the original question? Is there any tutorial on how to modify the sounds?

[Old_Canuck]

Just got patched up recently. First impression (with bass on sub woofer turned up) SOUNDS & FEELS MORE LIKE THE REAL THING. And I've flown the real thing BTW. Engine sound has a nice rumble to it. Even the mod sounds for the old CFS series don't compare. Great job and thx to TF "sound engineer." :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[miky]

Here we are talking about the gun sound :)

[Old_Canuck]

The gun sound should not even be in question considering irrefutable evidence from that 70 year old Spitfire MG resurrection video.

[Lowe]

What if I don't like it at all? We were asking if there was a way of modifying the sounds ourselves. Although that was aswered in another thread already.

[Uwe]

The gun sound should not even be in question considering irrefutable evidence from that 70 year old Spitfire MG resurrection video.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is beyond question.

[miky]

The gun sound should not even be in question considering irrefutable evidence from that 70 year old Spitfire MG resurrection video.

1. The name of the topic is "gun sound of british fighters" and not "sound of british fighters."
2. The quality of the sound of this " irrefutable evidence" (I am only talking about the sound of shooting) is not better of sound quality of pocket Fm radio for a 2$. There's just a real rate of fire.
And I've shot the real thing BTW.

[ATAG_Bliss]

1. The name of the topic is "gun sound of british fighters" and not "sound of british fighters."
2. The quality of the sound of this " irrefutable evidence" (I am only talking about the sound of shooting) is not better of sound quality of pocket Fm radio for a 2$. There's just a real rate of fire.
And I've shot the real thing BTW.

I deal with machine guns almost every day. I don't know what type of sound you are looking for, but if you have 1000hp engine between your legs, coupled with exhaust that's measured in inches, stuck inside a cockpit, and then muffled further by wearing a something over your ears designed to not only not make you go deaf, but also to communicate with, what do you really expect the machine guns to sound like? Pilot accounts that actually flew the things said the sound was almost like the sound of ripping a pair of jeans.

I honestly don't know what you expect it to sound like. But if you think a pilot is going to hear the same sound we would as observers on the ground, I think your barking up the wrong tree. If if you are landed with your engine off, the game has still modeled the pilot as wearing the head gear, again further muffling the sound.

I would just like to know what you think is so wrong? Or were the pilots actually doing the firing wrong in how they really sounded?

[miky]

I don't know what type of sound you are looking for, but if you have 1000hp engine between your legs, coupled with exhaust that's measured in inches, stuck inside a cockpit, and then muffled further by wearing a something over your ears designed to not only not make you go deaf, but also to communicate with, what do you really expect the machine guns to sound like?

You're absolutely right. I have no idea what the pilot hears with the engine running. On the other hand, all the examples given here were outside of the cockpit. So I'm talking about firing with the muffled engine.



But if you think a pilot is going to hear the same sound we would as observers on the ground, I think your barking up the wrong tree.

As I said, I don't.



If if you are landed with your engine off, the game has still modeled the pilot as wearing the head gear, again further muffling the sound.

I would just like to know what you think is so wrong?

I have enough experience firing, wearing head gear. Yes, it is partially affects the sound, but it is not the dry tra-ta-ta we have today. Listen to the file attached to the post #26. I know this is not 1200 rpm and not 8 synchronized barrels. But this is the basic sound. Is it not much closer to the sound of a machine gun? Once again, we are talking about aircraft on the ground with the muffled engine.

[Catseye]

Tom Neil - Hurrican pilot BOB - He states that he was surprised the first time he fired his 8 brownings that they sounded like HEAVY fabric tearing.

[Gromit]

Tearing calico is another expression I have heard!

[Kling]

This is the sound of fabric tearing... If i close my eyes i can understand exactly what they mean!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu2Va2CIxfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Salute

Couple comments:

First of all, it get a closer approximation of the real effect of flying in one of these aircraft means you need to turn up the volume of your computer speakers to very high levels. (being aware you may damage your hearing if you listen to this volume level for a long period)

Then put on a leather flying helmet with the earphones.

Then fire your guns and listen to the sound.

Listening to the game at the lower volumes which most people use is not going to give you a real sense of what the real pilot might have heard.

[sosoxia]

Jafaem Sound Plz!!!
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjg5MDYwNDky.html?f=6059928&firsttime=68

[Old_Canuck]

1. The name of the topic is "gun sound of british fighters" and not "sound of british fighters."
2. The quality of the sound of this " irrefutable evidence" (I am only talking about the sound of shooting) is not better of sound quality of pocket Fm radio for a 2$. There's just a real rate of fire.
And I've shot the real thing BTW.

Quote from a unquestionable source: "My guns make a noise like tearing calico." - Geoffrey Wellum (First Light - Kindle version - Location 2196 of 5043).

Of course you have the right to revert back to the original CoD but many of those who fly the modded version are striving for realism which the gun sounds reflect according to a veteran of BoB.

[ATAG_Headshot]

I was recently out painting the lines at a Rugby club (part of my job) and the old guy working out there mentioned that he has a friend who flew spitfires in the Battle of Britain. He told me his friend said that they usually couldn't hear almost anything for a few hours after landing and it wasn't from the engine... it was from the sound of the machine guns. Pull the trigger and you go deaf for hours. I really wish I had asked who the friend was.

[Old_Canuck]

Geoffrey Wellum is still alive according to Wikipedia. He could settle the argument if he was inclined. I suppose one could simulate deafening sounds by tweaking the volume controls. High volume calico-tearing would be a brutal sound IMHO.

[Catseye]

Geoffrey Wellum is still alive according to Wikipedia. He could settle the argument if he was inclined. I suppose one could simulate deafening sounds by tweaking the volume controls. High volume calico-tearing would be a brutal sound IMHO.

Especially if the Calico wearer objected! :)