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Salty
Jun-03-2013, 23:41
I just recently installed COD for the third time due to the ATAG TF Mod. I spent the last few days just trying to get a stable install that will run halfway decent and not crash to desktop. I finally got that corrected and so wanted to try out the aircraft in Single Player. In the Cross country mission, I discovered that the Spitfire (didn't matter which mark) and the Hurricane will not start to roll forward for takeoff, even when I applied full power. Both planes just sit there as though they can't overcome the friction of the ground. I switched to the German aircraft, Bf 109 E4, and all responded to throttle and takeoff was no problem. What is going on with this game? Just so you know, prop pitch was in full fine. Also, in other missions where you air start, the Spit and Hurri both performed normally as expected. I don't know what the problem is. Maybe someone else has had this issue and can direct me to hopefully, an easy fix.

Dutch
Jun-04-2013, 00:02
You just have to dab the brakes, mate. If you haven't done it already, go to the controls menu and assign a button to 'brakes'. When you start the mission, the brakes are on. Pressing the button releases them.

I dunno, maybe I'm getting old, but most people work this out for themselves. I apologise if this sounds insulting, but this is the third query in as many days about RAF brakes. Sorry mate.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jun-04-2013, 05:37
In the Cross country mission, I discovered that the Spitfire (didn't matter which mark) and the Hurricane will not start to roll forward for takeoff, even when I applied full power. .

Sorry if you already considered this, but, did you wait for the engine to come up to temperature?

The 109s will roll without any warm up period.
The RAF fighters need to be warmed up before they will roll.

Once you get to 20 degrees oil temperature, slam the throttle to 100%, OR
Once you get above 40 degrees oil temperature, you can advance the throttle beyond 20% and gradually increase throttle.

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Jun-04-2013, 09:58
Sorry if you already considered this, but, did you wait for the engine to come up to temperature?

The 109s will roll without any warm up period.
The RAF fighters need to be warmed up before they will roll.

Once you get to 20 degrees oil temperature, slam the throttle to 100%, OR
Once you get above 40 degrees oil temperature, you can advance the throttle beyond 20% and gradually increase throttle.


they work just fine if they are cool...
just need to start the engine and wait maybe 10 sec, the go 110 power and off you go.
there really is no need to warm up the engines at all.
maybe that is something TF could fix

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jun-04-2013, 10:17
they work just fine if they are cool...
just need to start the engine and wait maybe 10 sec, the go 110 power and off you go.
there really is no need to warm up the engines at all.
maybe that is something TF could fix

10 seconds is about all you need to get to 20 degrees oil.
And your right, it does need to be 110%, not 100% as I stated.

Salty
Jun-04-2013, 10:32
I considered the brakes. I use the G940 and my brakes are tied to the rudder. I tried tapping the brakes and that had no affect. Second, when starting the mission, the engine was already running and temperature was already warm. So...

I'll try again tonight and see if waiting for a while longer resolves the issue. I can't believe that the game prevents you from moving just because the temp is low. The brakes on is more likely, but since the Bf 109 had no issue, why would the Spitfire be exempt? I don't know, I've been flying flight sims since 1996 and currently fly IL2 46 and FSX, and this is the screwest coded sim in my experience. It has such promise and looks beautiful but these minor issues are taxing. The ATAG mod has helped tremendously and I hope that these minor problems can corrected eventually.

ATAG_Snapper
Jun-04-2013, 10:48
Hi Salty,

Spitfires and Hurricanes in real life did not have toe brakes, nor do they have them in this sim.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4622&p=46831&viewfull=1#post46831

Unlike other sims that you are accustomed to, the aircraft in Cliffs of Dover are modelled after their real life counterparts, not a universal set of joystick/throttle/rudder controls. Many new players are stymied to find that not all aircraft in Clod are operated identically. Hence the perception of "screwy code". A little bit of research on the aircraft themselves will actually yield a sense of appreciation for the detail and accuracy modelled into this sim's aircraft. Other high end sims, such as the DCS series (A10C, P51D, UH-1 Huey, etc) are going this route as well. It makes for a steep learning curve initially, but also provides a more rewarding experience once mastered.

Good luck!

Dutch
Jun-04-2013, 11:00
I use the G940.

Yup, me too. It does seem a bit of a waste that I only fly RAF and so my G940 pedals are sort of half wasted, but as Uncle Snaps says, and me in the link, this is realism. I have the pinky switch set for brakes (I think the actual control you need is 'toggle wheel brakes', but it's been a while). Works for me, anyway. :thumbsup:

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jun-04-2013, 11:21
I'll try again tonight and see if waiting for a while longer resolves the issue. I can't believe that the game prevents you from moving just because the temp is low. .

If it's temperature related:
If the oil gauge says you have at least 20 degrees, push the throttle to 100%.
If the engine coughs, and splutters then it's not hot enough. It won't produce the power required to overcome your momentum and this is why you won't roll forward.

If it runs up smoothly then you're at temp.
Then, if the aircraft still does not roll, you have a problem not related to temperature.
Do the test, and report the results so at least we can rule out temperature.


If it's brakes related,
Check your key bindings. Make sure you have a key set to toggle wheel brakes (for me it's "B" on the keyboard).
In single player*, when you spawn you often spawn with the brakes already locked on.Tap your bound key, and a blue message will pop up on the screen saying brakes on. When you release the button the brakes will turn off and a similar message will appear.

The RAF aircraft have different control sets form the Luftwaffe. You can't just assume the controls will be the same.
The RAF aircraft do not have independent left/right brakes, for a start. And they only toggle on or off. The Luftwaffe brakes have graduated pressure inputs.

* in multiplayer missions you do not start with the brakes locked on. Try an online map and report if you still have this problem..

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-04-2013, 11:30
Snapper is totally correct and all the planes require warming up as they did in real life, however the bf-109 has always been more forgiving in this area.

With the Spitfires and Hurricanes, fire up your engine and let it warm with the radiator closed until oil is 40c and water is 60c then open rads, make sure your prop pitch is fully fine, throttle up and go.

I used-to do the same as PhilStyle for a rapid warm-up, however engine damage is modeled if over-stressed and can lead to shortened engine life.

For correct operation, have a read of the Team Fusion wiki here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Jun-04-2013, 11:45
Snapper is totally correct and all the planes require warming up as they did in real life, however the bf-109 has always been more forgiving in this area.

With the Spitfires and Hurricanes, fire up your engine and let it warm with the radiator closed until oil is 40c and water is 60c then open rads, make sure your prop pitch is fully fine, throttle up and go.

I used-to do the same as PhilStyle for a rapid warm-up, however engine damage is modeled if over-stressed and can lead to shortened engine life.

For correct operation, have a read of the Team Fusion wiki here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php

what did i just say about warming up engines.....

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-04-2013, 12:02
what did i just say about warming up engines.....

So sorry, the fountain of all knowledge has spoken.

ATAG_Snapper
Jun-04-2013, 12:17
Originally Posted by Ghost
"what did i just say about warming up engines....."

And ATAG_Slipstream replied...
"So sorry, the fountain of all knowledge has spoken."

Ahhhhh, a difference of opinion between two veteran Cliffs of Dover Spitfire pilots! :hide:

FWIW, I used to "push" the Spit on a cold start by gradually walking the throttle up and coaxing the engine past the roughness until the engine started running smoothly and I was moving down the runway at 100% or even 110% throttle. Now I wait until the oil is at least 40C and frequently until 60C before starting my take off run. Personally I found in prolonged climbs/dogfights/chases my engine would last longer at extreme settings if I did a full warm up.

Obviously, Ghost has found otherwise. I can't argue with his success. He shoots down a lot of 109's. Perhaps this is a case of Your Mileage May Vary.

:-)

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jun-04-2013, 12:23
I must agree with Ghost on this one.
I have not noticed any difference in performance throughout a mission when I used either start-up method (those being)

fast ram-the-throttle to 110% when still at 20 degrees oil, or
wait until 40 degrees oil before throttling past 20%


The above includes for extended flights of 45 minutes + (not just short scraps).

However, this is anecdotal. I've never systematically tested this. And that is a long set of tests that I am not willing to put myself through!

1lokos
Jun-04-2013, 12:24
I finally got that corrected and so wanted to try out the aircraft in Single Player. In the Cross country mission, I discovered that the Spitfire (didn't matter which mark) and the Hurricane will not start to roll forward for takeoff, even when I applied full power.

After some patch (probable beta) MG dumbed down aircraft spawn on runway.

Plane spawn at end of runway
Engines ON, in idle ready for take off, no warming need.
"Parking brakes" ON

Just hit B (default key or brakes - not related with axis toe brake or axis brake...), the HUD show:

Wheel brakes:On
Wheel brakes:Off

Throttle up smoothly and take off.

At least that's how it work on "Cross Country" QM in my install.

Sokol1

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-04-2013, 12:31
FWIW, I used to "push" the Spit on a cold start by gradually walking the throttle up and coaxing the engine past the roughness until the engine started running smoothly and I was moving down the runway at 100% or even 110% throttle. Now I wait until the oil is at least 40C and frequently until 60C before starting my take off run. Personally I found in prolonged climbs/dogfights/chases my engine would last longer at extreme settings if I did a full warm up.



What you said above Snapper was exactly my point. You can force the engine to warm but if you climb to higher altitudes, or need to take-off into an immediate combat situation, your engine has more chance of blowing.

I'm pretty sure you could ramp the real thing to 100% power to warm it, but then the consequences would be alot more costly. I'm also quite sure that knowledgeable people in Team Fusion wouldn't have spend 100's of hours creating manuals describing the correct usage of each plane if there wasn't method behind the madness as they have a good understanding of how the internal code works.

As for my comment, I found the comeback quite inappropriate.

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Jun-04-2013, 12:40
So sorry, the fountain of all knowledge has spoken.

LOL!

finally some recognition

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-04-2013, 12:46
LOL!

finally some recognition

:)

ATAG_Headshot
Jun-04-2013, 13:56
Originally Posted by Ghost
"what did i just say about warming up engines....."

And ATAG_Slipstream replied...
"So sorry, the fountain of all knowledge has spoken."

Ahhhhh, a difference of opinion between two veteran Cliffs of Dover Spitfire pilots! :hide:

FWIW, I used to "push" the Spit on a cold start by gradually walking the throttle up and coaxing the engine past the roughness until the engine started running smoothly and I was moving down the runway at 100% or even 110% throttle. Now I wait until the oil is at least 40C and frequently until 60C before starting my take off run. Personally I found in prolonged climbs/dogfights/chases my engine would last longer at extreme settings if I did a full warm up.

Obviously, Ghost has found otherwise. I can't argue with his success. He shoots down a lot of 109's. Perhaps this is a case of Your Mileage May Vary.

:-)

Buzzsaw has said in multiple posts that your engine will suffer if you don't warm I to at least 40. He probably knows better than all of us too ;). Based on that alone I would say warm to 40 when possible then power up gradually.

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Jun-04-2013, 15:50
until i see any prof of the engine taking damage if not heated, i will call it a myth.
i have never had any problems with the engine as long as i dont get shot or pushing it over max limits.
so if what you say is true, the damage you would get would be minor to say the least.
not noticeable at all if you ask me.... which you probably aren't.
the thing is after about 10 sec you will be able to go 110 % without any stutter and that will warm the engine.
that might be a glitch since it will stutter at 100 % and most likely stop on you.

what do you think?

Salty
Jun-04-2013, 21:42
LOL, I can tell that this forum is going to be entertaining. Thanks for the advice and info. All is appreciated. I actually did go out hunting for information and found most of the answers I was looking for. I had some other issues that were not addressed by this topic. I understand that these aircraft are more sophisticated than IL2 46. I fly the A2A Spitfire and P51 in FSX along with a number of other aircraft, including the Classic Hangar's FW190 and Flight Replica's Bf 109K, so I have some idea of the complexity. I guess it's a question of expectation. The manual was lacking in any detail about specifics as to key stroke and order of key stroke, so I was unclear as to how to proceed. I understand the concept now and I just spent a couple of hours setting up key bindings. So the RAF fighters are moving now and taking off.

However, since I'm writing this reply, I do have a problem which I haven't been able to solve. This is the clickable cockpit. I hit F10 to enable the mouse so I can activate switches and levels and so on, but some of the levers, such as the Spitfire's fuel cock, do not respond to my left mouse button. Checking on this, I made sure that in the controls, the "Mouse Control" showed the Left Mouse Button. However, it doesn't seem to respond. BTW, Anthro whatever it is, is not enabled and I have CME and Temp enabled. Any suggestions as to things I should be looking for?

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jun-05-2013, 04:45
However, since I'm writing this reply, I do have a problem which I haven't been able to solve. This is the clickable cockpit. I hit F10 to enable the mouse so I can activate switches and levels and so on, but some of the levers, such as the Spitfire's fuel cock, do not respond to my left mouse button. Checking on this, I made sure that in the controls, the "Mouse Control" showed the Left Mouse Button. However, it doesn't seem to respond. BTW, Anthro whatever it is, is not enabled and I have CME and Temp enabled. Any suggestions as to things I should be looking for?

yeah.... the developers didn't implement everything. Some are clickable, some are not.
That is a bug/ oversight.

This might be rectified over time. but it pays to have control bindings for everything you anticipate using.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jun-05-2013, 16:01
until i see any prof of the engine taking damage if not heated, i will call it a myth.

Ok if you think so... But others, I would recommend you warm your engine up.

Otherwise you may have a nasty surprise.

ATAG_Snapper
Jun-05-2013, 19:37
Ok if you think so... But others, I would recommend you warm your engine up.

Otherwise you may have a nasty surprise.

:)


What got me to thinking about the warmup's significance was the Teamspeak chatter that I would frequently hear about "having a good Spit this time -- it doesn't run hot like the last one I had." This jibed with what I was experiencing too; some Spits seemed to run better than others. Things that make you go, "Hmmm".

This was all with the current TF patch. I began to deliberately warm oil up to at least 40C, usually 60C. Now all my Spits run well in hard climbs and extended dogfights. The only time I overheat a Merlin now it's been my fault -- not paying attention to rpms/boost/rad settings in the heat of the moment.

Again, this is just me and what I've found. If others find different -- go for it! :D

ATAG_JTDawg
Jun-05-2013, 20:33
:)


What got me to thinking about the warmup's significance was the Teamspeak chatter that I would frequently hear about "having a good Spit this time -- it doesn't run hot like the last one I had." This jibed with what I was experiencing too; some Spits seemed to run better than others. Things that make you go, "Hmmm".

This was all with the current TF patch. I began to deliberately warm oil up to at least 40C, usually 60C. Now all my Spits run well in hard climbs and extended dogfights. The only time I overheat a Merlin now it's been my fault -- not paying attention to rpms/boost/rad settings in the heat of the moment.

Again, this is just me and what I've found. If others find different -- go for it! :D

+1:thumbsup: , no Snapper your on the money, 40C is the min. 35 C if base is under attack (because it will be a short flight = shot up my ammo) but I've never had engine problems, with a proper warm up, where as if I forced warm up , seems my engine blows when I need it most !!

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Jun-05-2013, 20:46
if you overheat the engine its always your fault. :doh:
as for the warm up procedure, i still need prof.
i want to know what happens if you dont warm the engine slowly vs a 110% scramble warm up.
since i cant see any difference i really dont care much about it.
this conversation can go on for ever and thats not my intention at all.
the thing is, the complex engine management doesn't seem all that complex at all to me.
you open the fuel-cock and press start and of you go. unless you are going above 5 000 - 7 000 feat you can go 100 % pich and 110 % throttle with 50 % radiator without any problems at all. i have never been in a spitfire so i have no idea at all if this is accurate. but all this talk about procedures here and manuals there just seem to confuse new players and making it harder then it is. it sure slowed me down in the beginning.
obviously you must have some info about this that i dont buzz.

i have heard ppl that "know" that the dewilde ammo works and i have heard ppl that "knows" it doesn't.
after some testing i found out that i belong to the guys that "knows" it doesn't work.

as i said earlier, maybe its a glitch that you can go 110 % throttle, take off and warm the engine at the same time.

1lokos
Jun-05-2013, 21:49
... some of the levers, such as the Spitfire's fuel cock, do not respond to my left mouse button.
This might be rectified over time. but it pays to have control bindings for everything you anticipate using.

Strange, are some things that are broken, like G-50 magnetos, or not modeled at all, like Spit/Hurri brake lever - and don't respond to mouse click,
but Spitfire fuel cock work with mouse click - I just test with I, Ia and IIa. When you mouse over in right spot, see this pop-up:

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/347/cockyn.jpg

Anyway I dont use mouse click and have mapped for this command "Alt+I", because as Ghost say the only thing need to do previously to start Spit engine
is open fuel cock, so:

Alt+I, I and done. :thumbsup:

Sokol1

Salty
Jun-06-2013, 14:48
Lokos,

I do get the white Box with Fuel Cock called out, but it doesn't respond at all to my left mouse button. For a test, I un-installed the TF Mod and reverted back to the regular COD configuration, went into the Spitfire and tried to move the fuel cock lever. No Joy! I tried all the Marks and had the same result. I reverified the Mouse Control key setting so I haven't any idea why this doesn't respond. All the other switches and levers work for me but the fule cock. I assumed that some where along the way, some patch deleted the capability. But since the fuel cock is in the On Position, permanently, it doesn't stop me from running the plane. I'll try to assign a key to the fuel cock and see if I can get it to move.

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-06-2013, 15:45
Lokos,

I do get the white Box with Fuel Cock called out, but it doesn't respond at all to my left mouse button. For a test, I un-installed the TF Mod and reverted back to the regular COD configuration, went into the Spitfire and tried to move the fuel cock lever. No Joy! I tried all the Marks and had the same result. I reverified the Mouse Control key setting so I haven't any idea why this doesn't respond. All the other switches and levers work for me but the fule cock. I assumed that some where along the way, some patch deleted the capability. But since the fuel cock is in the On Position, permanently, it doesn't stop me from running the plane. I'll try to assign a key to the fuel cock and see if I can get it to move.

If flying offline, then it sounds like something is not set right in your realism settings.

If you quickly connect to the ATAG server and load up a plane, you should be able to move it. If you can then its worth checking those settings.

Salty
Jun-07-2013, 14:28
I flew on-line yesterday for the first time. What a blast! I did discover that all the switches and levers work by mouse click. I have no idea why it doesn't in off line mode. Anyway, I 'm hooked on the on-line play. I tried a Spitfire Mk Ia, all that I could select at the base. Took me a few minutes to figure out the menu interface. So I'm climbing up to 15,000 ft, and I was about at 10,000 ft when suddenly BANG, tracers are wizzing by and I slam the stick into a corner and do a split s to escape. Three times I'm attacked by this guy but fortunately I escape with my life and I'm able to get back to my base, but my right wheel is damaged so I had to belly in on the grass. Pretty immersive. I think I ran into the aircraft distance bug, because just before I was hit the first time I had been studiously clearing my six and scanning constantly around me for signs of any aircraft. I could see nothing and suddenly he was there. I have a slight feeling now how it must have felt by those WWII pilots who had this experience. I also realize how a lot of pilots were shot down and killed and never saw their opponent.

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-07-2013, 15:13
I flew on-line yesterday for the first time. What a blast! I did discover that all the switches and levers work by mouse click. I have no idea why it doesn't in off line mode. Anyway, I 'm hooked on the on-line play. I tried a Spitfire Mk Ia, all that I could select at the base. Took me a few minutes to figure out the menu interface. So I'm climbing up to 15,000 ft, and I was about at 10,000 ft when suddenly BANG, tracers are wizzing by and I slam the stick into a corner and do a split s to escape. Three times I'm attacked by this guy but fortunately I escape with my life and I'm able to get back to my base, but my right wheel is damaged so I had to belly in on the grass. Pretty immersive. I think I ran into the aircraft distance bug, because just before I was hit the first time I had been studiously clearing my six and scanning constantly around me for signs of any aircraft. I could see nothing and suddenly he was there. I have a slight feeling now how it must have felt by those WWII pilots who had this experience. I also realize how a lot of pilots were shot down and killed and never saw their opponent.

Seems like you've most definitely caught the "online bug" :thumbsup:

It is very immersive and can get quite intense facing a human player. I've been hooked on online combat since the the first IL2 Sturmovik as the AI become predictable over time, however I know why some folks enjoy offline flying and all respect to them too.

You offline problem is most likely one of the game realism options, although I can't remember all of them without looking at the manual, so maybe someone else can chime in here, but if not I'll have a look when I get the time.

Anyhow, welcome to the online community, I hope you continue to have fun and hopefully I'll catch you in the skies.

~S~

Muffin
Jun-07-2013, 19:57
I flew on-line yesterday for the first time. What a blast! I did discover that all the switches and levers work by mouse click. I have no idea why it doesn't in off line mode. Anyway, I 'm hooked on the on-line play. I tried a Spitfire Mk Ia, all that I could select at the base. Took me a few minutes to figure out the menu interface. So I'm climbing up to 15,000 ft, and I was about at 10,000 ft when suddenly BANG, tracers are wizzing by and I slam the stick into a corner and do a split s to escape. Three times I'm attacked by this guy but fortunately I escape with my life and I'm able to get back to my base, but my right wheel is damaged so I had to belly in on the grass. Pretty immersive. I think I ran into the aircraft distance bug, because just before I was hit the first time I had been studiously clearing my six and scanning constantly around me for signs of any aircraft. I could see nothing and suddenly he was there. I have a slight feeling now how it must have felt by those WWII pilots who had this experience. I also realize how a lot of pilots were shot down and killed and never saw their opponent.

The 109 was most likely boomin' and zoomin' you. He proabably spotted you from a few thousand ft above you, dove down, took a burst, and climbed back up and repeated the process.

Foul Ole Ron
Jun-10-2013, 06:21
To help you spot planes follow the tips in the following thread:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3991

From those tips I use the fov = 90, visibility distance = 5, no AA, original textures. I also put the showmeshlod = 1 to eliminate the disappearing act of middle distance planes. The showmesh setting can put a hefty workload on your PC though - I find that things get a little jerky for me over Hawkinge but everywhere else is ok so it's well worth it for me. I refuse to lower my screen resolution to spot dots though - I want the game to look pretty I guess.

The above works for me anyway - I maybe don't see dots quite as far away as others but I find that I very rarely get out-and-out bounced by an unseen enemy anymore whereas at first it was happening to me regularly. Getting to know the map and the local hotspots will no doubt help you avoid getting bounced as well.

9./JG52 Ziegler
Jun-10-2013, 07:59
Salty,

The reason that you were able to click on switches etc.. on-line and "they worked" versus in single player they did not is due to the full realism settings on the servers. Mot servers anyways. You can remedy that by hanging the realism settings and they will behave the same for you.

Your right about the manual being next to useless but I have to say that the "puzzle" of that manual was one of the things that got me hooked on the sim. It was like working out a jigsaw having to research each plane. Thank God for the You Tube tutorials ;-).

Also I'll just mention that while the 109 is more forgiving to scramble it is "sluggish" until it warms past 40 degress coolant.

Salty
Jun-10-2013, 19:55
Muffin,

You might be right. I could very well have been hit from behind and underneath. Total blind spot. I was killed the other night and shot down. I was flying a Spit and cruising around on the French side. Suddenly, the screen goes totally black! I thought, I wonder if this means I've been killed? Sure enough, I hear rounds impacting the aircraft and about 30 seconds later, I'm a smoking hole in the ground and I get the wonderful sight of that hole as my screen is restored. I understand that there is a view key that you can press that will enable you to go outside the craft and see your plane getting hammered. Is this so?


Ron,

I saw that thread and I've incorporated some of the suggestions. I run at a resolution of 1920X1080, which I won't compromise. I understand that a fix might possibly be in the making so I'm looking forward to that.

Zodiac,

For offline, I have CEM/Temp enabled. I don't have red out/blackout enabled or limited ammo, plus I like flyby and occasionally looking external views so they are not checked either. I'll check those and see which setting is the cause. I hope not all because of the reasons I meantioned above. However, I have been mainly playing on-line lately. I agree with the Youtube videos. Soren's videos inspired me to give COD another chance.

Thanks Guys for the advice.

Dutch
Jun-10-2013, 20:04
I understand that there is a view key that you can press that will enable you to go outside the craft and see your plane getting hammered. Is this so?

Alt/F2 will show an external view.