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Skoshi_Tiger
Jun-15-2013, 00:53
Read with interest about the Player verses Environment mode.


PvE mode gives the opportunity to tell the story for the player and the AI ​​plays the role of the statistician and the scenery in this process. PvE missions have a story and imply role-based gameplay.



In our new project we're creating PvP and PvE part of the game that will be linked. But PvE mode will be a little more important because this specific type of gameplay will allow us to recreate a complete picture of one of the most tragic and heroic battles that took place on the Volga.



In order to meet the needs of such different audiences, we decided to build the gaming process so that everyone can find exactly the style of gameplay that best matches his or her gaming requirements or time restrictions.



Missions represent 5 main phases of the Battle of Stalingrad (the list and the names of the phases are not final).



1) Phase 1 - On the eve of the counter-offensive

2) Phase 2 - Operation "Uranus"

3) Phase 3 - Fight against air bridge

4) Phase 4 - Operation "Winter storm"

5) Phase 5 - Operation "Ring"



The phases are placed in historical sequence and you'll get a general idea about the course of ​​the battle when you'll go through them all. To move to the next phase, the pilot must successfully complete the necessary tasks of the previous phase.



At each phase, the location of the Soviet and German armies is unique and corresponds to the historical realities. This applies to the location of the armies themselves and airfields. The situation varies from phase to phase and illustrates the course of the battle. How does the logic of missions work? In this article I'll talk about the general logic and the next Friday we'll talk about the details.



Single Player Online allows us to create a unique structure which will form the basis of the game. Mission generator will be on the server as well as a template for the phase of the battle. A customer chooses a phase and some other conditions such as type of aircraft and makes a request. The pilot receives a unique generated mission. Every mission is unique and differs in detail from any other mission that is generated for any other players. Two missions identical in the details will be very rare (less than 5%). And no player knows what task he or she will be assigned until the request is made. This will ensure a fair and unbiased game for everyone involved. Of course, the most important factor is the performance of tasks in the mission because only such an outcome will bring you a real advantage. Destroyed enemy aircraft or equipment that is not the purpose of the mission, of course will be recorded in your stats, but it does not help you in advancing the story.


Just wondering why these missions need to be generated by the server? Why can't the stand alone game generate them??? Is it just a way for them to keep global statistics?

Personally I have no interest in being part of the leader board system. Skill in any of these combat sims depends on how much time you have available. I don't have much, so comparing someone who plays 1 hour a month against some one who plays 5 hour a day is pointless.

I guess there are people like me that start a mission then get called away because the kids waking up, or the dog's scatching at the door, or the wife tells me I'm not giving her the attention she deserves or she's see a roach! Why would I want that mission to go against my standing on a leader board. For that matter why would anyone want to compare their standing with someone that's partating with those restrictions

I don't mind stats being kept by ATAG or similar servers, they're reset each month and are based on my recent effort put into the sim it actually means something to me and I can weigh up the stats in context with my effort, but if you look at the inbuilt stats for COD, they've been inaccurate since the day it was released. My ROF stats mean absolutly nothing.

You thoughts gentlemen?

bolox
Jun-15-2013, 02:35
Yeah, I find the statements coming out somewhat confusing, one minute it's all about the sim being based on offline (and I'm 100% offline flyer) then there's this...

I really have less than zero interest in statistics, indeed the statistics driven, ego fuelled competitive nature of thing put me of online flying forever (IL2), and having it being the core of the 'gaming experience' for offline doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
IF 777 can do something with their mission editor there's a chance that community made campaigns/missions might make up for this - however a look at ROF record in this department is not encouraging.
I have doubts as to how well a computer generated mission system will work, it certainly won't be 100% historical and again, if i use RoF as a base line ( as Jason seems to constantly tell us) then my expectations are pretty low, let alone how that is going to be 'story led', Ive yet to see a well done computer generated mission brief.

I also sometimes like to replay certain missions, see how different tactics affect the outcome playability/outcome. If there is a way of saving 'favourite' generated missions (and tweaking them in fmb), there might be something here.

Dunno, atm I'm taking all the talk to be just that, and will make my mind up when the game is released.

Talisman
Jun-15-2013, 05:58
http://spitfirevsbf109.com/files/LuftwaffeStalingrad.pdf

I found the above link to an interesting document that gives an insight into the air war and likely missions for the time. I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I did.

Happy landings,

Talisman

Dutch
Jun-15-2013, 07:58
Your thoughts gentlemen?

Well, maybe I'm missing something here, but 'player vs environment' sounds pretty much the same as the 'career mode' in RoF to me. In my limited experience of this, the missions are created at the server end, and are slightly different each time if you replay them (i.e. it's possible to escape from the mission before you hit the deck if you're shot down, thus preserving your 'life', then you hit 'refly mission' or whatever). Plus, you also play them slightly differently in order to avoid the mistake you made the first time around. I'd also say that to a large extent in my experience, the career missions are a lot of flying and very little combat, unless you enjoy popping balloons a lot.

Of course, it is possible to pause the mission at any time in career mode, if wife , dog or kids should call, which isn't possible in player vs player mode currently, in either RoF or Cliffs.

As far as stats are concerned, I don't give a hoot where I am in the standings, I don't play it often enough to even get on the board, I shouldn't wonder. Come to that, I only look at my own stats in Cliffs to see how I'm doing for my own benefit, and don't sit there comparing myself to others (although when that Snapper bloke gets 20 kills and no deaths on one map, I look at his in horror :D ).

So, I dunno. The lack of statements involving true multiplayer are a bit of a concern. If PvE is the major focus, fair enough, but if it's career mode MkII, career mode MkI is pretty boring IMO. But we'll see.

Edit: I suppose we have to remember that these chaps are charged with the responsibility of commemorating the Battle of Stalingrad in an informative and engaging way. If a server generated randomisation of gameplay is how best to do this in an absorbing manner, fair play to them. After all, Player vs Player multiplayer doesn't really replicate other battles very well currently. Nor indeed the stock offline campaigns.

ChiefRedCloud
Jun-15-2013, 15:21
Well, maybe I'm missing something here, but 'player vs environment' sounds pretty much the same as the 'career mode' in RoF to me. In my limited experience of this, the missions are created at the server end, and are slightly different each time if you replay them (i.e. it's possible to escape from the mission before you hit the deck if you're shot down, thus preserving your 'life', then you hit 'refly mission' or whatever). Plus, you also play them slightly differently in order to avoid the mistake you made the first time around. I'd also say that to a large extent in my experience, the career missions are a lot of flying and very little combat, unless you enjoy popping balloons a lot.

Of course, it is possible to pause the mission at any time in career mode, if wife , dog or kids should call, which isn't possible in player vs player mode currently, in either RoF or Cliffs.

As far as stats are concerned, I don't give a hoot where I am in the standings, I don't play it often enough to even get on the board, I shouldn't wonder. Come to that, I only look at my own stats in Cliffs to see how I'm doing for my own benefit, and don't sit there comparing myself to others (although when that Snapper bloke gets 20 kills and no deaths on one map, I look at his in horror :D ).

So, I dunno. The lack of statements involving true multiplayer are a bit of a concern. If PvE is the major focus, fair enough, but if it's career mode MkII, career mode MkI is pretty boring IMO. But we'll see.

Edit: I suppose we have to remember that these chaps are charged with the responsibility of commemorating the Battle of Stalingrad in an informative and engaging way. If a server generated randomisation of gameplay is how best to do this in an absorbing manner, fair play to them. After all, Player vs Player multiplayer doesn't really replicate other battles very well currently. Nor indeed the stock offline campaigns.

Yea Dutch this is more or less what I read into it too. I believe there was a comment on RoF forums by Jason that more or less confirmed the Online Campaign explanation. But darn if I can find it. But though I share your concern about no comments on multiplayer, I do not see how in this day and time, they can avoid it. In my opinion, I've seen great single player games polluted by multiplayer modules. But a Flight Sim? It would just not work. Of course it may be just a wee bit complex to be commenting on at this time.

Skoshi_Tiger
Jun-15-2013, 20:33
Out of interest I decided to go and see what the leader board system was all about, so I fired up ROF for the first time since the channel map, checked for updates, and then clicked on the leader board tab.

3091

I guess the leaderboard is not much to worry about after all!

Talisman, I've saved that PDF and am looking forward to reading it.

Thanks!

Dutch
Jun-15-2013, 22:01
'Knock off the personal attacks or I will ban you.'

Jesus. A leopard don't change it's spots do it? (it wasn't me by the way, just for a change).

ATAG_Slipstream
Jun-16-2013, 00:15
'Knock off the personal attacks or I will ban you.'

Jesus. A leopard don't change it's spots do it? (it wasn't me by the way, just for a change).

This is why I don't bother posting there as freedom of speech is non-existent.

What makes me laugh though is everyone saying the sounds are the best thing since hot meals, when its clear to anyone with a good set of ears that they come from Clod, right down to the ambient air sound complete with distant chirping birds that you've heard at manston so many times with the canopy open.

The LOD looks quite impressive though.

~S~

Arthursmedley
Jun-16-2013, 07:35
What makes me laugh though is everyone saying the sounds are the best thing since hot meals, when its clear to anyone with a good set of ears that they come from Clod, right down to the ambient air sound complete with distant chirping birds that you've heard at manston so many times with the canopy open.

The LOD looks quite impressive though.

~S~

No real surprise as CloD's sounds were re-done by the Rise of Flight sound guy - according to Luthier this was one of the few things that went right. The LoD's and zoom feature is one of the things the RoF engine excels at but I fear multiplayer options at launch are still going to be less than what we have in IL2 1946.

Royraiden
Jun-16-2013, 10:31
No real surprise as CloD's sounds were re-done by the Rise of Flight sound guy - according to Luthier this was one of the few things that went right. The LoD's and zoom feature is one of the things the RoF engine excels at but I fear multiplayer options at launch are still going to be less than what we have in IL2 1946.

You are right, there is no way they will get a complex multiplayer experience in so short time.Hopefully they will keep adding features after release.For me their success relies mostly on this, if the multiplayer attracts enough people to establish a solid community future theaters and expansions are almost guaranteed.Im not so thrilled about that "single player online" thing, but as long as they let mission builders introduce offline single player campaigns I wont mind that feauture being there.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jun-17-2013, 10:16
The phases are placed in historical sequence and you'll get a general idea about the course of ​​the battle when you'll go through them all. To move to the next phase, the pilot must successfully complete the necessary tasks of the previous phase.



For me, single player campaigns is something that has been badly implemented for a long time. I'm very wary of single player campaigns that require you to "complete" missions before progressing to the next one.

I like singe player campaigns that allow the pilot, or his unit to fail their missions. To constantly re-fly the same mission again and again until you "pass the level" is, for me personally, enjoyment defeating.

It seems that for many games, in order to ensure "theatrical" style game play (where the action is tightly orchestrated by the mission/ game designer to ensure a constant stream of "entertainment"), single player modes are trending into the style of platform games.

Best ever campaign system I can recall from computer games goes back to the Aces over Europe (by Sierra games) days.
The missions were randomly seeded, although there were only about 5 different mission templates that the game drew from. You could fail missions. If you bailed out over enemy territory there was a chance you might make it back home to continue (a few weeks would pass). Sometimes you might get posted to another squadron, especially if you got promoted. Red Baron had a similar campaign mode.

ChiefRedCloud
Jun-17-2013, 16:54
Well just a small personal note here (though just some times out of curiosity) IF I had ever been interested in STATS I would most likely have been long gone from flight sims by now. Simply because I'm not that good. But still, I enjoy the hell out of sim flying. Just my odd ball note ..... sorry.

9./JG52 Ziegler
Jun-18-2013, 07:45
Isn't the single player online mode akin to setting yourself up as a server in Clod to fly the "Dogfights", or am I missing something? :recon:

Roblex
Jun-18-2013, 14:38
Isn't the single player online mode akin to setting yourself up as a server in Clod to fly the "Dogfights", or am I missing something? :recon:

It is basically an offline campaign where each mission in the chain is generated based on your preferences rather than just fixed. They probably could have downloaded it to your campaign folder after generating it but chose to leave it online.