How Can We Get More People to Play Clod?

[5th_Tot]

variety is a big point...
if you manage to put up a 43 planeset that would do wonders to the comunity because its going to attract people interested in american warbirds. Theres barely any american squads and still a lot of people in 1946 waiting for something similar. but i cant really imagine the work behind since you need like 6-7 new planes and at least one american bomber to start with.
An early ATO would be great to have no doubt, but it would not attract that many "new" players since you only have a Warhawk and a early A20.

[LBR=H.Ostermann]

S!

In WT forum has a great discussion about the last news related below, some dudes are very disapointed.

Maybe some of them want play Cliffs Of Dover?

A english native speaker can make the "diplomacy" and call them to here.



Pilots and Tankers!

Soon, we plan to make some changes in Simulator Battle mode. After the release of Ground Forces, this mode has become much more popular, the majority of players preferring mixed plane and tank battles while “pure” air battles are less than 10%. Though the number of SB players has significantly increased, waiting time and Battle rating difference in one battle has also increased.

This is why air and tank battles in Simulator mode will be united in one mode soon. This will allow pilots to join the battles faster and will improve the in-game balance.

Those who prefer only air battles will be able to choose “Events” mode, where “Duels” will become available once again - fast Simulator Battles 4 vs 4 without nation limits. Match-making will work in the same way as our usual battles in other modes. There will also be historical events for Simulator mode that will still be regularly available.

Finally, Squadron Battles - In Arcade and Realistic mode there are always dozens of Squadrons fighting each other, but the Simulator level of competition is pretty low - few Squadrons join this mode and play only a few battles daily! This is why we have decided to suspend Squadron Battles in Simulation mode beginning on the 16th of June, on this day we will summarize the results and the winners will get their rewards.. Virtual pilots can still fight each other creating a map with individual settings in Custom Battles.

The War Thunder team

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/147691-upcoming-changes-to-simulator-battles/

[implicit A]

Wt players very upset
Is there anyone here who have a wt forum account to tell them it s'time for them to try clod ?
Bait maybe ?
;-)

[Continu0]

I`ll post today in the german section... anyone doing the same in the english section?

[Bait]

I`ll post today in the german section... anyone doing the same in the english section?

Let me BAIT them :)


Airmailed from Switzerland.

[Bait]

I tried to be kind and honest.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/147691-upcoming-changes-to-simulator-battles/page-25#entry2769333

I also invited everyone in my old squadron here, and offered to pay for one particular persons copy of CLoD.

Best I can do at this point.


Airmailed from Switzerland.

[implicit A]

Well done Bait !
;;):ilike:

[LuseKofte]

It will come people from BOS also if and when dedicated servers starting up. In my point of view CLOd and BOS is not enough alone. They are pretty narrow in term of time and maps. So combined flying between those two will be sort of good.
The numbers will not increase as long as it is only one active CLOD server around. We need servers that is active in all timezones and give people choices.
If this happens I am pretty sure CLOD will after all this time be big

[ATAG_Lewis]

Just a thought....We are getting a lot of new players recently coming from WarThunder....I have checked a couple of WT vids recently and was impressed with the Full Real mode they have over there..Its not as graphically good as CLOD and the feel seems a little bit arcade style but I was still impressed with it all the same...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRwcOXnXf6A

So...I have now started advertising CLOD directly onto these videos with a 'Have you tried Clod?...Its real cheap and realistic..'..and then I have added a link to one of my vids...Why I didn't think of this before, I don't know...

We'll see what reaction it gets..

[hnbdgr]

Just a thought....We are getting a lot of new players recently coming from WarThunder....I have checked a couple of WT vids recently and was impressed with the Full Real mode they have over there..Its not as graphically good as CLOD and the feel seems a little bit arcade style but I was still impressed with it all the same...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRwcOXnXf6A

So...I have now started advertising CLOD directly onto these videos with a 'Have you tried Clod?...Its real cheap and realistic..'..and then I have added a link to one of my vids...Why I didn't think of this before, I don't know...

We'll see what reaction it gets..

I never tried War Thunder but their scenery looks imho better..... :P Clod has a more mature feel when it comes to graphics for sure, but the towns and distant rendering suffer in comparison to WT. Perhaps WT graphics are a tiiiiiny bit more cartoonish but landscapes look real good.

[OccamsRazor]

Here's an idea!

Get on Steam and check your friend's list or check any groups you may be a part of and see if anybody has Cliffs of Dover on their wish list.

I found a person that I used to play ARMA 2 with who had it on their list, so I bought it and sent it to them.
I also found another posting on the Steam Community Hub for Cliffs of Dover looking to trade a game for it so I bought one for him as well.

Take advantage of the Steam Summer sale, the game is only $5.99 right now!

[Vlerkies]

We need a 'bridging server' that will be a platform to make the transition to Cliffs from mass market mousy flight sims easier for folks.
Something will all the aids on, ext views, padlocks, etc but with CEM forced.

[Mysticpuma]

We need a 'bridging server' that will be a platform to make the transition to Cliffs from mass market mousy flight sims easier for folks.
Something will all the aids on, ext views, padlocks, etc but with CEM forced.

Already suggested this. I think an unrealistic server, wonder woman view, arrows, no CEM, f6 padlock, etc, etc would be a great addition.

I see currently lots of players go to.WT and WoP as they have much more relaxed fm and maybe this is the bridge that is needed.

I really think CEM is the tough one here because players want to get in the air and fly and have fun. Once they do this, they can see the beauty of CloD and then, once more confident get the 'bug' to transition.

As a new, beginner player, the last thing you want is to.sit on a runway having no idea why your engine seizes, why when you take-off, your engine seizes, why (if they are lucky) they get to altitude for dogfighting...and their engine seizes...because they don't know CEM.
The point is, lets get people flying CloD and having fun...and then rather than flying War Thunder, they will be flying CloD and learning it......and then they can decide if they want to transition to the complex CEM, but not be forced into it.

[Continu0]

Strongly agree! I`d much rather have a second server with easy settings than one with KI-Bombers... But best would be 3 servers...:D

[ATAG_Lewis]

Already suggested this. I think an unrealistic server, wonder woman view, arrows, no CEM, f6 padlock, etc, etc would be a great addition.

I see currently lots of players go to.WT and WoP as they have much more relaxed fm and maybe this is the bridge that is needed.

I really think CEM is the tough one here because players want to get in the air and fly and have fun. Once they do this, they can see the beauty of CloD and then, once more confident get the 'bug' to transition.

As a new, beginner player, the last thing you want is to.sit on a runway having no idea why your engine seizes, why when you take-off, your engine seizes, why (if they are lucky) they get to altitude for dogfighting...and their engine seizes...because they don't know CEM.
The point is, lets get people flying CloD and having fun...and then rather than flying War Thunder, they will be flying CloD and learning it......and then they can decide if they want to transition to the complex CEM, but not be forced into it.

+1

[Taxman]

Already suggested this. I think an unrealistic server, wonder woman view, arrows, no CEM, f6 padlock, etc, etc would be a great addition.

I see currently lots of players go to.WT and WoP as they have much more relaxed fm and maybe this is the bridge that is needed.

I really think CEM is the tough one here because players want to get in the air and fly and have fun. Once they do this, they can see the beauty of CloD and then, once more confident get the 'bug' to transition.

As a new, beginner player, the last thing you want is to.sit on a runway having no idea why your engine seizes, why when you take-off, your engine seizes, why (if they are lucky) they get to altitude for dogfighting...and their engine seizes...because they don't know CEM.
The point is, lets get people flying CloD and having fun...and then rather than flying War Thunder, they will be flying CloD and learning it......and then they can decide if they want to transition to the complex CEM, but not be forced into it.

+2 :thumbsup:

[Osprey]

Just a thought....We are getting a lot of new players recently coming from WarThunder....I have checked a couple of WT vids recently and was impressed with the Full Real mode they have over there..Its not as graphically good as CLOD and the feel seems a little bit arcade style but I was still impressed with it all the same...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRwcOXnXf6A

So...I have now started advertising CLOD directly onto these videos with a 'Have you tried Clod?...Its real cheap and realistic..'..and then I have added a link to one of my vids...Why I didn't think of this before, I don't know...

We'll see what reaction it gets..

Why didn't you add the "Beginning of the End" movie? It's one of the reasons we made it is to show off COD and the BOB. No disrespect intended but a general track directly turned into an .avi and uploaded isn't going to be the best advert. I could be wrong, your movies could be the best Lewis I don't really know, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at.

As for the 'beginner server', I suggested this a long long time ago and I probably wasn't the first either. Once I get a few missions sorted ACG will set one up probably - 334th_Dedicated used to be one of the most popular servers in Hyperlobby back in the day.

What may help Lew is if you edit your beginners guide to state that there are multiple servers to choose from rather than just sending everyone into one place, you know, put up that big list of servers and the type of stuff they offer. I think many people come over thinking that they'll get a BOB experience in COD, escorting masses of bombers etc, not sure that's what they end up experiencing. It's in all of our interests to hang on to people who try COD out.

[Continu0]

What may help Lew is if you edit your beginners guide to state that there are multiple servers to choose from rather than just sending everyone into one place, you know, put up that big list of servers and the type of stuff they offer.

Good point, advertising diversity can`t be wrong. I think AX dogfight could be a good start for some players too. Quick and dirty action, rather than flying for 50 minutes without seeing anyone...

[Vlerkies]

I think AX dogfight could be a good start for some players too. Quick and dirty action, rather than flying for 50 minutes without seeing anyone...

Essentially you need a mix of quick dirty action but also with all the assistance on.
A simple straight forward cross channel map at high noon with 2 airfields each side, meet in the middle and murder.
I take Puma's point on CEM. We sometimes forget what the real challenges are as many of us have been flying the IL2 series for so long albeit on and off.

Many moons ago we did this in South Africa with IL2 Sturmo, with 1 full real server and 1 super easy added later.
There wasn't much of a flight sim community although many had an interest and had flown one or 2 along the way, so we were trying to pull players from mainstream FPS shooters and stuff we knew.
It soon became apparent that some that gave it a whirl were not infected enough and just lost interest for the very reasons mentioned (couldn't get going, engines not working or blown, couldn't figure out where to go or what to do, the list is endless)
When we managed to get the easy server up it paid dividends in blooding new players and some, not all, made the move up to the main server.

It would obviously need to be broadcast around the general community on forums and by word of mouth, not least of all the good movies the guys make.
Might be worth a shot for sure.

[OccamsRazor]

Essentially you need a mix of quick dirty action but also with all the assistance on.
A simple straight forward cross channel map at high noon with 2 airfields each side, meet in the middle and murder.


This.

When I first bought the game, that was my intention. Have fast, epic dog fights. Quick and easy
After installing the game and the patches, I joined a online server and realized that actual work needs to be put in to actually fly so I didn't touch the game for months.

It wasn't until I started watching gameplay/tutorial videos months later from Requiem, apeoftheyear and JG4_Karaya that finally got me to really get into the game and learn the mechanics.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

As for the 'beginner server', I suggested this a long long time ago and I probably wasn't the first either. Once I get a few missions sorted ACG will set one up probably - 334th_Dedicated used to be one of the most popular servers in Hyperlobby back in the day.


An ACG "beginners" server would be a great idea Osprey.

I can knock up a mission or two if you like, on the Steppe map. Has some nice terrain and is quite small...

[ATAG_Lewis]

Why didn't you add the "Beginning of the End" movie? It's one of the reasons we made it is to show off COD and the BOB. No disrespect intended but a general track directly turned into an .avi and uploaded isn't going to be the best advert. I could be wrong, your movies could be the best Lewis I don't really know, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at.

As for the 'beginner server', I suggested this a long long time ago and I probably wasn't the first either. Once I get a few missions sorted ACG will set one up probably - 334th_Dedicated used to be one of the most popular servers in Hyperlobby back in the day.

What may help Lew is if you edit your beginners guide to state that there are multiple servers to choose from rather than just sending everyone into one place, you know, put up that big list of servers and the type of stuff they offer. I think many people come over thinking that they'll get a BOB experience in COD, escorting masses of bombers etc, not sure that's what they end up experiencing. It's in all of our interests to hang on to people who try COD out.

To answer your first question...There's a few reasons...Firstly when I made the initail post the 'Beginning of the end' didn't exist and secondly when I try these types of things I tend to do them without anyone elses work simply because other people have their own agenda to what should be said that includes their work and I need the freedom to experiment on my own without having to answer to anyone else...I can do this type of thing a lot faster....Also I want to include a short piece of footage that shows game play from one perspective...That is very important to me when judging other games so I tend to use unedited footage of wingmanship showing the banter or teamwork...All that certainly doesn't stop anyone else from doing this type of thing...I have used the 'Beginning of the end' in some posts as an advert for this sim...and will do so in the future too...but only when I feel that the particular thread will benefit from it..

As for an ingame footage that is directly uploaded to Youtube..Well that is precisely the type of video I go looking for when searching videos of a game I am interested in so I don't know if what you are saying there is completely true there.....and its certainly not true for me


As for the server issue...I have no idea...

As for the 'Beginners Guide' sending everyone to the same place...I wasnt aware that it did....Have I misunderstood?.....If it does that then its probably a by product of the way it was written and not a conscious thing....It hasn't been mentioned before as a negative thing so I am unaware of that..

[Osprey]

Understood Lew, I hadn't realised that about the dates. I have mentioned the beginners guide before tbh but hey, a lot goes on doesn't it.

Anyway, specifically I meant this part in the guide (which is excellent btw)

"Multiplayer

Client

Click on the desired server: ATAG's Axis vs Allies(TF Patch)

Join Server"

So as a beginner and this is a guide, I'm going to follow it. Perhaps this is the place where there is a list or link to a list of available servers? I understand that this is an ATAG forum and you are an ATAG pilot, although I get a mixed message that this is a community hub also, so it's your call but you can understand what I mean I am sure. I am speaking from a position of trying to grow this game and not have this apparent transient crowd who come in and then disappear soon afterwards.

[Osprey]

Been talking about it for a while, having an open pit server. Looks like Nitrous put it up tonight but we will have to do more to get the mission right, and of course calling it a 'Beginners server' isn't the best name. Still, there it is until we tweak it.

[Vlerkies]

Been talking about it for a while, having an open pit server. Looks like Nitrous put it up tonight but we will have to do more to get the mission right, and of course calling it a 'Beginners server' isn't the best name. Still, there it is until we tweak it.

I think it will really help if everyone pulls together and punts it out there.
Well done ACG!

Agree 'beginners server' not quite right, but I'm sure we/ACG will come up with an appropriate title.

Intermediate maybe, although that's not stricly true, how about 'Lemon and Herb' server'

We used to call our old ones Peri Peri and L@H :)

[Continu0]

Been talking about it for a while, having an open pit server. Looks like Nitrous put it up tonight but we will have to do more to get the mission right, and of course calling it a 'Beginners server' isn't the best name. Still, there it is until we tweak it.

Congrats, well done! Now we have to spread the word!

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Been talking about it for a while, having an open pit server. Looks like Nitrous put it up tonight but we will have to do more to get the mission right, and of course calling it a 'Beginners server' isn't the best name. Still, there it is until we tweak it.

Good stuff Osprey.

[Mudcat]

Been talking about it for a while, having an open pit server. Looks like Nitrous put it up tonight but we will have to do more to get the mission right, and of course calling it a 'Beginners server' isn't the best name. Still, there it is until we tweak it.

Personally, if the idea is to give people and place to start and then move on to the Full Real servers then there is nothing wrong with a little name shaming in the title of it, if people know it's for starters by the name alone, then they'd probably be more likely to move forward after time. Nothing wrong with Beginners server as the name since that is the point, I mean you could have called it "CloD Noobz and mouse flyers from WT start here!" :-P

[Continu0]

Personally, if the idea is to give people and place to start and then move on to the Full Real servers then there is nothing wrong with a little name shaming in the title of it, if people know it's for starters by the name alone, then they'd probably be more likely to move forward after time. Nothing wrong with Beginners server as the name since that is the point, I mean you could have called it "CloD Noobz and mouse flyers from WT start here!" :-P

+1

"Beginner" is clear and ok!

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

+1

"Beginner" is clear and ok!

+ 1 also.
The name has to be clear. WT players might not be familiar with "no-CEM" or "low settings" or such terms.

[Osprey]

OK we made a couple of changes here:

1. We went against naming it a 'beginners' server. CEM off is one thing but I flew Open Pit for a while and I can assure you that there are some really good pilots in that style and it wasn't due to knowledge and skill that they were doing OP. It was a constant trend for some people to insult OP as 'easy' and for 'noobs', so the server is called

++ ACG Open Cockpit Dogfights (TF4.312) ++

2. The other change is we've put up Phil's mission although we'll add a bit of AI in there I think. We've added basic scoring too through our ACG.dll which is what the old OP servers had back in the day, and when you spawn in you will be messaged to use Ctrl+F1 to get the OP view up. Some extras still to add.

The idea is that we want the old and still active in '46 open pit crowd to be able to come to COD rather than guarantee an empty server for the new visitor on his own. It's better to give the place a chance to actually populate with new blood. I understand your point about 'beginners' but I think a beginner usually wants help and they aren't about en masse at once. We need population growth and an alternative.

I have low expectations but hey, we're giving it a go. @Lewis, perhaps you can mention this Open Cockpit and CEM off server in your guide? This would be ideal for the WT type player to transfer from. Thanks.

[SoW Reddog]

Maybe you could put "beginners welcome" or somesuch in the server description, which shows when you click on the server name in the list? You know the bit that appears to the right above the player list?

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

I have low expectations but hey, we're giving it a go. .

Good stuff chaps. Hey, if it doesn't change anything, pull it down or rework it.
Nothing ventured....!

[LuseKofte]

Well a easy servers success depending on people being there. It is the old issue about gravity.
So every once in a while we should be in it to atract other players


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Osprey]

You are right there Reddog, I added some message or other, we can edit that. Once we have this mission refined I'll make copies and edit aircraft types to suit. I'm thinking of putting in some tank/vehicle objectives too, then perhaps we could even target some of the WoT players? Just a thought.

Open pit is actually very good fun and you'll be firing from completely different deflection positions.

BTW, it's likely to go down each Wednesday as it gets used for our DCS night, but if people are using it Nitrous will take down our main server for that instead.

[ATAG_Lewis]

Good work Fellas...~S~

[dburne]

Dumb question from a Single Player guy, what exactly does open pit mean?

[ATAG_Dave]

I don't know what Open Pit means either but im guessing it means you fly your plane from an external perspective rather than sat in your cockpit? If so the WT terminology (assuming that's the target audience here) for that is 'Third Person View' if that's any help.

[Marmus]

You are right there Reddog, I added some message or other, we can edit that. Once we have this mission refined I'll make copies and edit aircraft types to suit. I'm thinking of putting in some tank/vehicle objectives too, then perhaps we could even target some of the WoT players? Just a thought.

Open pit is actually very good fun and you'll be firing from completely different deflection positions.

BTW, it's likely to go down each Wednesday as it gets used for our DCS night, but if people are using it Nitrous will take down our main server for that instead.

I think this server idea is a great idea!

[Mysticpuma]

Open Pit means you can switch the cockpit surroundings off. It's also known as Wonder Woman view as she had a glass plane she could see through. Maybe the description should be 'Cockpit off (Optional)'. ?

Difficult to make it short and brief, but for players who don't know the terminology it may help?

Cheers, MP

[Osprey]

Indeed MP, it means cockpit off, my description is "Open Cockpit", maybe again that needs changing.

Burnette, just go in and try it, grab a bunch of you for either side and when you spawn in hit ctrl+F1. Once you are fighting you'll love it, it's great fun, quite different from what you've been used to. It may appear new to a lot of people but trust me, this is all old skool.

Also, is Cliffs on offer at the moment? If this is the case then ACG will buy licences for 10 pilots who haven't flown COD yet, we're willing to pay for an entire squadron (joystick based) to migrate over from WT, or Open Pit 1946. Can somebody help us identify such a group? Or 10 individuals who are likely to give it a proper go.

Any volunteer to help us with this offer? If it works we'll extend it.


PS,
"Wonder Woman" is the kind of derogatory term I was referring to which comes from some of the closed pit crowd, with any luck it'll make a reappearance on the forums ;)

[ATAG_Dave]

Open Pit means you can switch the cockpit surroundings off. It's also known as Wonder Woman view as she had a glass plane she could see through. Maybe the description should be 'Cockpit off (Optional)'. ?

Difficult to make it short and brief, but for players who don't know the terminology it may help?

Cheers, MP

Ah OK in that case the WT terminology for this is 'Virtual Cockpit'

[Osprey]

Ah, good to know, I'll put that in the description.

Which joystick WT squadrons can we target for a free upgrade to COD courtesy ACG. :D

[ATAG_Dave]

Ah, good to know, I'll put that in the description.

Which joystick WT squadrons can we target for a free upgrade to COD courtesy ACG. :D

Its been a while since I was active there but below is a link to the squadrons page in the WT forum - bear in mind that WT has 3 modes - arcade, realistic (yeah right...lol) and Simulation and the majority of the player base play arcade/ realistic modes - and within those modes the majority of players 'fly' their planes using nothing more than a mouse (in essence though they hate being told it lol the computer flys the plane for them and they are just pointing where the plane will go). only in simulation mode are players forced into a cockpit (other modes have an external view available) to actually fly their planes using a joystick (or there is a virtual joystick which in essence uses a mouse as a joystick emulator). Even in simulation mode there friendly planes have icons within 900m , there is a mini map telling you exactly where you are and where the enemy ground targets are etc etc so clod in full switch is a massive step up (I should know lol). Ive tried recruiting some of the simulator players from my old WT squadron but with no joy so far but feel free to drop a post on their specific forum (No1 squadron, again link below) - they had a couple of very experienced simulation players one of which (Kota) ive noticed has had a couple of sorties on the ATAG server - he does a lot of streaming in war thunder so might be a good recruit

so if you are targeting squadrons I would aim for those that have a decent number of simulation players if you can discern that from their adverts. There is also I think a squadron that's specifically for those who fly using a joystick - cant remember the name but a player joined here recently from that squadron so check the welcome section on this forum maybe too to find him.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/157-squadrons/

http://no1squadron.boards.net/

[Otyg]

How can I buy a copy of cliffs and save it on steam? Just buy it as a gift?
I could buy a few copies also.
I'm on the wt boards sending pm to people talking of other games or how much they want a better sim then wt :)

[Osprey]

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/157-squadrons/

http://no1squadron.boards.net/


Many thanks for the post Dave. No.1 Sqn, they look a bit confused, the banner art is a Mosquito when No.1 were a sector A Hurricane Sqn operating out of Tangmere, and the Mossy marking is "GB", which is No.105, a bomber sqn on Blenheims in 1940.

Oh well.....

[ATAG_Dave]

Many thanks for the post Dave. No.1 Sqn, they look a bit confused, the banner art is a Mosquito when No.1 were a sector A Hurricane Sqn operating out of Tangmere, and the Mossy marking is "GB", which is No.105, a bomber sqn on Blenheims in 1940.

Oh well.....

LOL - historical accuracy and WT......a contradiction in terms. But id suggest you pointing this out to them as potential new recruits wouldnt feature as a likely tactic in 'how to win friends and influence people'......................:thumbsup:

[Continu0]

How can I buy a copy of cliffs and save it on steam? Just buy it as a gift?
I could buy a few copies also.
I'm on the wt boards sending pm to people talking of other games or how much they want a better sim then wt :)

Just buy it trough steam. It will ask you if you want to buy it for yourself or as a gift!

[Otyg]

Just buy it trough steam. It will ask you if you want to buy it for yourself or as a gift!

Aye. I bought a copy last night. You never know when you need one.

[Osprey]

LOL - historical accuracy and WT......a contradiction in terms. But id suggest you pointing this out to them as potential new recruits wouldnt feature as a likely tactic in 'how to win friends and influence people'......................:thumbsup:

Oh yeah, epic fail there, sort of thing Arnold Rimmer or Sheldon Cooper would do :)

[ChiefRedCloud]

We at New Wings Virtual Flight Training put our idea into effect nearly three years ago as our BASIC TRAINING server. Why the name? Because it is Basic Training. It's the beginning or how to get the planes off the ground. We went on to create an intermediate server and a near full real/historical server. We established our forums to take in any and all training, tips, and ideas for new pilots from within the Rise of Flight community. Such resources as Requiem's fine training videos.

And though we provide the servers, any training is via our Volunteer Cadre and so we are not a full fledged Training facility as we would have liked. The idea of a Basic Training server for beginner pilots to Cliffs of Dover was also on our wish list. However resources and manpower did not allow this to take place.

I earnestly believe with groups like ATAG and ACG with the support of the Cliffs of Dover community we can see a server for Clod beginner pilots to come to light.

Chief

[hnbdgr]

Does anyone use reddit here? I'm a reader but don't have an account. It might be an idea to post something like the Beginning of the end here: http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/

It's got over 5000 subscribers, I bet it will get some attention...

Alternatively, free Clod copies can be offered there as well or in http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming that has 5,435,037 people on it apparently

[Tortellini]

Hi! I'm new to this forum and to the game too. In the past I was playing IL2 Sturmovik a lot (different versions, different mods, depended on year and server), WT for some time, and RoF. I decided to give it a try and bought Clod, because there was a sale-off in local shop and got collector's edition for something like 8 euros.
After testing the game with just one plane in the air, I think I know the answer why many simmers (or arcade simmers) are avoiding this game. While I can run completely smooth all games mentioned above, Clod gives me like 10 fps over buildings with lowest settings. Its completely unplayable at low altitude, but on high alt game runs good. I installed TF mod and with it the game works same as before or maybe even worse. I have no idea what can I do to improve settings besides buying a new CPU (now I've got C2D E7300 OC). I've heard from others that this game won't run well even on better systems than mine (quad core cpu etc).
From time to time I'm reading WT forum (some bugs/errors in that game are hilarious and I enjoy reading about those) and I see that Clod is already well known on that forum, I learned about the mod there too. Maybe the thing that could bring new players should be some video showing proper configuration of the game which allow this to run on older PCs? WT for example runs well on everything, graphics there are not bad too and many players judge games by graphics.

[hnbdgr]

Hi Tortellini,

welcome to the forums! I could have sworn Lewis would be here by now with a greeting banner, alas it's up to me....:)

What you wrote about is basically correct. From personal experience - it was quite challenging to get CloD to run well on my system, there were lots of technical hiccups and it took me a while to get to a point where the game runs very well.

There are threads around here describing various issues, they might be stickied but I agree that an official or semi official technical guide would be useful. The problem is that often the technical hiccups vary from machine to machine and so there's not always a one size fits all solution to them. For me it was part of the fun (tbh it was frustrating a lot as well) to iron everything out. But if the CloD community wants to grow, the aim should be to make it as easy as possible for people to install CloD and get flying without having to read through dozens of threads...

PM me your specs, I'll tell you what worked for me. If we are successful and get you sorted, perhaps I can do a video on this topic (GPU settings, conf.ini settings, graphic options).

[Continu0]

Hi Guys

I am away for a week, so I won`t be able to watch the Steam Community Hub as I normaly do. Can someone take over for that time? Quite a couple of people are asking for help there...

Thank you!

[ATAG_Septic]

Hi Guys

I am away for a week, so I won`t be able to watch the Steam Community Hub as I normaly do. Can someone take over for that time? Quite a couple of people are asking for help there...

Thank you!


Thanks Continu0,

I don't know why but I rarely look at the Community Hub, I've subscribed to it now so will hopefully get a nudge from Steam when there's a new post.

Septic.

[ATAG_Lewis]

Hi! I'm new to this forum and to the game too. In the past I was playing IL2 Sturmovik a lot (different versions, different mods, depended on year and server), WT for some time, and RoF. I decided to give it a try and bought Clod, because there was a sale-off in local shop and got collector's edition for something like 8 euros.
After testing the game with just one plane in the air, I think I know the answer why many simmers (or arcade simmers) are avoiding this game. While I can run completely smooth all games mentioned above, Clod gives me like 10 fps over buildings with lowest settings. Its completely unplayable at low altitude, but on high alt game runs good. I installed TF mod and with it the game works same as before or maybe even worse. I have no idea what can I do to improve settings besides buying a new CPU (now I've got C2D E7300 OC). I've heard from others that this game won't run well even on better systems than mine (quad core cpu etc).
From time to time I'm reading WT forum (some bugs/errors in that game are hilarious and I enjoy reading about those) and I see that Clod is already well known on that forum, I learned about the mod there too. Maybe the thing that could bring new players should be some video showing proper configuration of the game which allow this to run on older PCs? WT for example runs well on everything, graphics there are not bad too and many players judge games by graphics.

Phew....Better late than never eh, hnybgr......hehe..

Welcome to the community and forums Tortellini....~S~

Checkout the 'Beginners Guide'...for info and tips...It should save you a heap of time in getting up to scratch.....and its a really fun learning curve anyway..

Beginners Guide Link Here (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058&p=52711)

Also try youtube for startup procedures on all the aircraft...

Any questions then you've come to the right place....

Good to have you with us buddy...and remember its all about the Fun!!!

...Lew...

[pencon]

I'd play more often if I could use external views. In cockpit I can never find anybody and if I do I get immediately shot down after looking for another plane for an hour . In fact after many hours I 've only found other planes a couple of times . And then I usually go back to 1946 .

[GloriousRuse]

@Pencon

Part of that is SA, but hours implies you aren't hunting the right areas.

1) Get on TS. 216.52.148.29

Someone will tell you where the fighting is if you ask. They may tell you even if you don't.


2) Read the briefing. Its the tab next to Map.

It will lay out all of the objectives and their locations. The objectives tend to breed fights.

Of particular interest:

Kanalkampf - The ships heading east to west always, say always, have someone over them.

Sealion - The invasion fleet, dover harbor, and Calais regions will find you a fight.

Hellfire Corner - Ships, the cliffs of dover, french point (wissant) and Calais marck.

Fall Rot - Liegescourt Forest, Poir Nord, Abbeville.

Dunkirk - Dunkirk harbor and Oyle Plage

Reliqnuish - Le Havre and Crepon

Now, that's not to say you won't be turned to flaming scrap there, just that's where fights tend to congregate.

3) Tab-7-1. Will give you a not entirely precise heading towards the enemy according to ground control. Point your nose down the compass and go. Be forewarned that it works pretty well for bombers, and pretty not so well for fighters.

4) Fly with a wingman! The easiest advantage a wingman gives is that you can see each others blind spots. Including the huge one underneath you. Even if you separate into a pair of individualists without a care in the world for each other living or dying once the fight begins, just having someone fly next to you increases your combined spotting exponentially.

[TWC_BikerJack]

I'd play more often if I could use external views. In cockpit I can never find anybody and if I do I get immediately shot down after looking for another plane for an hour . In fact after many hours I 've only found other planes a couple of times . And then I usually go back to 1946 .

Hi Pencon,

I appreciate your frustration. Most of us have been in your situation believe me. Persevere and it will come good. GloriousRuse's advice is spot on. Without communication it is easy to fly around aimlessly and not see another aircraft - friend or foe! And then get bounced.

Even when you know you are in the right area it is still difficult to spot other aircraft. If you are high and the fight is low you probably won't see it and vice versa. Track IR and the zoom in/out function are essential (IMO) to see, and most importantly identify, any contact. Monitor brightness and contrast settings may need adjustment to get the best visual result.

Get on Teamspeak and wing up - it takes time to get to know where and what to look for.

If external views were enabled it would take away the realism and that is where CLoD and Team Fusion really excel. Keep your eyes peeled and always look in all directions in rotation - up, down, left, right and behind on your six - and don't fly straight and level for too long. Hmmmm? Sounds like a sentence out of a WW11 combat manual - but that's the point. Keep it as real as possible.:thumbsup:

[DESTINY0ne]

what would be nice is some default profiles for a couple of planes.... i'm having a mare setting up x52 with this game??

[ATAG_Flare]

I'm not sure if using the cockpit off mode would be a good idea, it makes it harder to look around, as it's a lot harder to know which direction you're looking, even though you can see more. It also removes the immersion of being in the certain plane, as you don't really see the interior of the plane. But I'm all for the idea of getting more WT players who want more from flying games to play CloD. My choice would be to create a non-CEM server, with labels, map icons, and cockpit ON using one of the online maps.

[Otyg]

what would be nice is some default profiles for a couple of planes.... i'm having a mare setting up x52 with this game??

whats the problem? i used a x52 before and didnt have too much problems.

[SorcererDave]

Yeah I hear you on the performance front. It's not a problem for me at the moment (the new 780 6GB saw to that) but I gifted a friend of mine a copy of COD on steam a couple of weeks ago, and while he's absolutely loving it so far, he pretty much has to run the game on the absolute bare minimum settings to get a workable frame-rate. To the point where we were both flying over France, and identifying his location was difficult because on his end the runways on the airfields near Calais weren't even rendering on his screen so he couldn't tell which one he was at by a glance.

It's a bit of an odd duck this game - for some people it runs fine but with others due to a slightly different configuration of hardware or whatnot it stutters like crazy.

[9./JG52 Mindle]

what would be nice is some default profiles for a couple of planes.... i'm having a mare setting up x52 with this game??

I use an X52 pro with no problems. I never have used the SST software thing, just map commands to the joystick. Let me know more detail about your issues and i will see if i can help.

[II/JG3~Siggi]

I think there's a good chance, once BoS is released and people finally realise it has War-Thunder FMs, there'll be a bounce-back that'll land in CloD's lap. Maybe if more of us posted on the Steam CloD forum it would help, I see a regular flow of prospective purchasers asking questions in there (often asking which to buy, CloD or BoS).

[Vaxxtx]

I think there's a good chance, once BoS is released and people finally realise it has War-Thunder FMs, there'll be a bounce-back that'll land in CloD's lap. Maybe if more of us posted on the Steam CloD forum it would help, I see a regular flow of prospective purchasers asking questions in there (often asking which to buy, CloD or BoS).

I am not a huge fan of 777, and really not liking the direction of BoM to be honest. I was minutes away from purchasing when I read about the Team Fusion Mod for CLoD. I bought CLoD shortly after release, and uninstalled it after it looked hopeless. Due to hearing about how good CLoD is now on the BoS steam forum I am playing it for what seems like the first time.

I need much more practice before I go online, but I can tell you I have lost much interest in BoS, and looking to delve deeper into CLoD.

[Otyg]

I am not a huge fan of 777, and really not liking the direction of BoM to be honest. I was minutes away from purchasing when I read about the Team Fusion Mod for CLoD. I bought CLoD shortly after release, and uninstalled it after it looked hopeless. Due to hearing about how good CLoD is now on the BoS steam forum I am playing it for what seems like the first time.

I need much more practice before I go online, but I can tell you I have lost much interest in BoS, and looking to delve deeper into CLoD.

Hi mate.

You can speed up the learning process by finding a instructor here on the forum or just start a thread where you ask what you want/need to know.
I for one would take you up in the 109 free of charge ;). I could help you with the red side also but there is more able players about for that.

So don't be a stranger.

[xvii-Dietrich]

You can speed up the learning process by finding a instructor here on the forum or just start a thread where you ask what you want/need to know.

Agreed.

Just ask on the forums or on TeamSpeak and there'll be someone for any aircraft type and at all skill levels. The community here is superb and appreciate the challenges of playing such a realistic sim... and are prepared to help everyone get started. All you need to do is ask.

[Vaxxtx]

Hi mate.

You can speed up the learning process by finding a instructor here on the forum or just start a thread where you ask what you want/need to know.
I for one would take you up in the 109 free of charge ;). I could help you with the red side also but there is more able players about for that.

So don't be a stranger.

Thanks. I appreciate it, and will most likely take you up on that!

Red side? Bleh.... you will never catch me in anything that does not have awesome German Engineering lol. The only time I like to get close to a Spit or Hurri is to make sure it makes a splash :) . So no need to worry about that.

[Osprey]

If you want real and history check my sig. Always looking for 109 pilots for our RAF faction to kill on campaign day. :thumbsup:

[Otyg]

Thanks. I appreciate it, and will most likely take you up on that!

Red side? Bleh.... you will never catch me in anything that does not have awesome German Engineering lol. The only time I like to get close to a Spit or Hurri is to make sure it makes a splash :) . So no need to worry about that.

Good, had me worried for a while :) blue is the way to go. Just send me a pm when you feel your ready or plop in to ts and say hi.
Good luck!

[Bucksnort]

My choice would be to create a non-CEM server, with labels, map icons, and cockpit ON using one of the online maps.

+1...plus external views. :thumbsup:

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

flare2000x View Post
My choice would be to create a non-CEM server, with labels, map icons, and cockpit ON using one of the online maps.


+1...plus external views. :thumbsup:

This idea was tried a few months back by ACG I believe. The server was not patronized and has since been taken down.
There is currently the "lead farm" server which has all those features, except CEM is turned on. See image below.

11418

[Bucksnort]

This idea was tried a few months back by ACG I believe. The server was not patronized and has since been taken down.
There is currently the "lead farm" server which has all those features, except CEM is turned on. See image below.

11418

If the ACG server had external views, plane and map icons, and most of all "no CEM" then I wish I had known about that. Word that a "normal" server is available will take time to get around...I had no idea.

CEM enabled on Leadfarm is a show stopper for me, but thanks for the info. I think CEM is the real show stopper for most people who try CloD online play. It makes for very tedious game play IMO, at least for the 109 (my favorite plane in CloD). One person made the comment here once, that with no CEM one plane becomes completely dominant (they didn't say which one). Which means that those who know which plane that is and who have mastered CEM for that plane would have a significant advantage over all other players. Sounds like it would be better to turn off CEM and let that plane become dominant for all players rather than just those veteran players who have figured it out.

The "full real" servers are more about CEM than ACM and SA. I doubt it was that way over the skies of England in 1940. I'm guessing the RAF and Luftwaffe pilots were well trained in CEM and the primary test in the BoB was a test of ACM and SA.

[SorcererDave]

The "full real" servers are more about CEM than ACM and SA. I doubt it was that way over the skies of England in 1940. I'm guessing the RAF and Luftwaffe pilots were well trained in CEM and the primary test in the BoB was a test of ACM and SA.

I don't think I could disagree more strongly. I probably only spend about 2% of my time fiddling with engine management. Especially the 109, since the E4 versions have automated prop pitch. I'd prefer people who hate CEM to just admit it's because they're too lazy to learn it, rather than making silly claims like the game is more about CEM than anything else.

[Bucksnort]

I don't think I could disagree more strongly. I probably only spend about 2% of my time fiddling with engine management. Especially the 109, since the E4 versions have automated prop pitch. I'd prefer people who hate CEM to just admit it's because they're too lazy to learn it, rather than making silly claims like the game is more about CEM than anything else.

Ok, I'm too lazy to learn CEM. Although a very nice fellow on the ATAG server spent a lot of time with me on several occasions teaching me CEM for the 109. And then I spent about a month practicing CEM in single player mode but found it tedious in the end.

It is better to say players who don't like CEM and find it tedious are lazy. How long do you do something before you decide you don't like it? A month, a year, a lifetime?

The ATAG server will never grow its player base with CEM enabled, in particular when those who don't like CEM are insulted on this forum.

[3./JG51_Heiden]

The ATAG server will never grow its player base with CEM enabled, in particular when those who don't like CEM are insulted on this forum.

Ok, bye bye I guess?

[SorcererDave]

The ATAG server will never grow its player base with CEM enabled, in particular when those who don't like CEM are insulted on this forum.

I wasn't insulting you. There's nothing wrong with not being arsed to play with CEM - some people just enjoy a more casual style of play. My point however is that you shouldn't make silly claims like the one you did. If you've really spent two months practicing and you STILL find it consuming more time than anything else when flying, I can't help but think you're maybe doing something wrong.

[EAF51_Jimmi]

don't know if it was discussed already...

wouldn't be easier to spread team fusion patch to newcomers just by creating a TORRENT copy of a patched game folder and use it to overwrite the steam folder???
is it feasible??

may be with already some key maps set to fly most used planes (spit-109)
and some common ammo types and decent ranges to choose and try???


just my 2 cents...

[ATAG_Dave]

Ok, I'm too lazy to learn CEM. Although a very nice fellow on the ATAG server spent a lot of time with me on several occasions teaching me CEM for the 109. And then I spent about a month practicing CEM in single player mode but found it tedious in the end.

It is better to say players who don't like CEM and find it tedious are lazy. How long do you do something before you decide you don't like it? A month, a year, a lifetime?

The ATAG server will never grow its player base with CEM enabled, in particular when those who don't like CEM are insulted on this forum.

You could try reading this - http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9111 ....its like CEM only without the C........... :thumbsup:

[Otyg]

don't know if it was discussed already...

wouldn't be easier to spread team fusion patch to newcomers just by creating a TORRENT copy of a patched game folder and use it to overwrite the steam folder???
is it feasible??

may be with already some key maps set to fly most used planes (spit-109)
and some common ammo types and decent ranges to choose and try???


just my 2 cents...

That's a good idea. Make some sort of library with .ini files.
Name of hotas and then a pic of the button settings.

I gave my next door neighbour my ini files so he didn't have to setup info windows, cloud tweak, bind his WH buttons and such.
Clod became plug and play almost.

[Vlerkies]

I can't help but think you're maybe doing something wrong.
Amen!

It really is not difficult or something that can't be grasped in a few brief sessions.
Its about paying attention, that's all, and becomes second nature in no time at all.

[Bucksnort]

There's nothing wrong with not being arsed to play with CEM.

This explains it best for me. I consider CEM tedium, not fun. I play CloD heavily in SP but fly Aces High for MP because of this. And when CloD comes up on the Aces High range vox CEM is the big negative "beautiful game, too bad it has CEM." Many Aces High players own CloD but because they are so MP focused they don't play it SP and have forgotten CEM is optional. Their only experience with CloD is on the ATAG server where they quickly gave up.

Aces High sits between WarThunder and CloD in level of difficulty and is a more likely place to recruit players as they already have sticks, throttles, pedals and many also have TrackIR. But go talk to Aces High players about CEM and see how far you get. CEM is a very small club.

But I'll go on enjoying CloD in SP. Just had to stop by and pester you guys about CEM :)

[Otyg]

How can the CEM be tedious and a chore? Pitch up and pitch down bound to the hat switch and that's it.

I'm sorry but I can't really see the problem. I came with no CEM/sim experience at all. Took me one evening of burning engines to figure it out.

Each to he's own tho. Have fun either way.

[56RAF_klem]

If the ACG server had external views, plane and map icons, and most of all "no CEM" then I wish I had known about that. Word that a "normal" server is available will take time to get around...I had no idea.

CEM enabled on Leadfarm is a show stopper for me, but thanks for the info. I think CEM is the real show stopper for most people who try CloD online play. It makes for very tedious game play IMO, at least for the 109 (my favorite plane in CloD). One person made the comment here once, that with no CEM one plane becomes completely dominant (they didn't say which one). Which means that those who know which plane that is and who have mastered CEM for that plane would have a significant advantage over all other players. Sounds like it would be better to turn off CEM and let that plane become dominant for all players rather than just those veteran players who have figured it out.

The "full real" servers are more about CEM than ACM and SA. I doubt it was that way over the skies of England in 1940. I'm guessing the RAF and Luftwaffe pilots were well trained in CEM and the primary test in the BoB was a test of ACM and SA.

One of the problems is communication.

Because ATAG hosts the Team Fusion work on it's forums and releases the patches through the same it has become the unofficial de-facto 'CoD official forum'. ACG has it's own site and it's no reflection on those guys, or the SOW guys in a similar position, that CoD players come here for information. The ACG and SOW guys do post here but I guess news about their 'relaxed realism' server didn't reach many people.

With the greatest admiration for the ATAG tam, having taken on the TF/CoD publishing task and become the main focus for the player base they might consider they have landed themselves with a degree of responsibility towards the player base. So, given their de-facto status they could open a sub-forum under the 'IL2 Cliffs of Dover' section for 'Relaxed Realism flying'. It might be worth the experiment and would give those guys not wanting to use CEM etc a place to gather and promote those kinds of servers. Perhaps once it is realised there is an active 'RR' community it might expand the overall player base. In the longer run it can only strengthen "SoW" or whatever it becomes known as with it's extensions.

It's no good the rest of us banging on about 'it ain't real', we need as much game support as possible and let's face it, we can't get many more players in the 'full real' server anyway.

[hnbdgr]

This explains it best for me. I consider CEM tedium, not fun. I play CloD heavily in SP but fly Aces High for MP because of this. And when CloD comes up on the Aces High range vox CEM is the big negative "beautiful game, too bad it has CEM." Many Aces High players own CloD but because they are so MP focused they don't play it SP and have forgotten CEM is optional. Their only experience with CloD is on the ATAG server where they quickly gave up.

Aces High sits between WarThunder and CloD in level of difficulty and is a more likely place to recruit players as they already have sticks, throttles, pedals and many also have TrackIR. But go talk to Aces High players about CEM and see how far you get. CEM is a very small club.

But I'll go on enjoying CloD in SP. Just had to stop by and pester you guys about CEM :)

CEM in the 109 is about 2 things, RPM and temps. It is tedious to keep RPM within limits for sure and can slip your mind especially if you mostly fly the e-4 where it is automated. It takes practice to get used to it. Some people get used to the sound and maintain it that way. What you might find useful is an external readout so you can keep an eye on the RPM on an external LED at all times. Ditto for temperature.

Btw all you need to know about temperature is that it rises dangerously from 3 to 4.5 K if you're constantly on 2400RPM, but that's about it. Fly well - fly fast (>400kmh) at all times; and you will not have to worry about temps that much.

[silen one]

When you ask why cant you get more people and your told its CEM. How come no one seems to listen. You seem to hear it, but your not listening. Im new here and just scanning this thread I can see why people stay away. The whole. " CEM is easy if your not into it your doing it wrong " attitude is exactly what Im talking about. When you set your server full real your basically saying ." my way or the highway" and people vote with their feet.
Ive been playing sims since Total Air War in 98 so Im not a noob. But I personally cant be arsed with CEM. Id rather concentrate on the tactics and essence of air combat. Engine management isnt that. If I wanted to play MSFS thats what Id be playing. Same goes for having to navigate without icons. WTF! how elitist is that BS.

Its not rocket science. If you offer people the opportunity of doing a new hobby and then you try to make it as hard as possible right at the start. Make it as frustrating as you can , with the planes engine constantly burning out before you get to the fun bit and even do some shooting. ( and at that point you don't even know what your doing wrong ) Well. can you be surprised people leave? CLOD is a game and its for entertainment. If you want more gamers you need to meet people half way. Not my way or the highway. :)

[Continu0]

@ Silen one

As you said, the community is hearing that and I believe it is well aware of it. There are problems tough: There actually is a hard core in the community that wants to play full real. So changing ATAGs Server 1 to easier settings is not really an option.

What`s more is, that there seem to be too few (new) players to fill a server with easier settings... several times, servers were up with easier settings (and they are still up) - but empty... And I very much understand it that no one wants to have the work of providing a server without having players on it...

I think the best solution would be to use ATAGs Server 2 with exactly the same missions, but easier settings. Maybe more people would play on it, because it`s called ATAG and that is where they got the TF-Patches from... and that option (which I would really welcome) has ont been tried before, afaik...

[ATAG_Dave]

When you ask why cant you get more people and your told its CEM. How come no one seems to listen. You seem to hear it, but your not listening. Im new here and just scanning this thread I can see why people stay away. The whole. " CEM is easy if your not into it your doing it wrong " attitude is exactly what Im talking about. When you set your server full real your basically saying ." my way or the highway" and people vote with their feet.
Ive been playing sims since Total Air War in 98 so Im not a noob. But I personally cant be arsed with CEM. Id rather concentrate on the tactics and essence of air combat. Engine management isnt that. If I wanted to play MSFS thats what Id be playing. Same goes for having to navigate without icons. WTF! how elitist is that BS.

Its not rocket science. If you offer people the opportunity of doing a new hobby and then you try to make it as hard as possible right at the start. Make it as frustrating as you can , with the planes engine constantly burning out before you get to the fun bit and even do some shooting. ( and at that point you don't even know what your doing wrong ) Well. can you be surprised people leave? CLOD is a game and its for entertainment. If you want more gamers you need to meet people half way. Not my way or the highway. :)

Clod is intended to be a simulator and on the ATAG server we run it as full switch which includes CEM. In reality its not really that complex - especially in RAF fighters where ATAG_Lewis has already published a simple set it and forget it guide. It just takes a bit of learning and soon becomes second nature - much like learning to drive where at first having to use the clutch, change gear etc etc is something you have to concentrate on. Once you have been doing it a while you don't even need to think about it.

[SorcererDave]

When you ask why cant you get more people and your told its CEM. How come no one seems to listen. You seem to hear it, but your not listening. Im new here and just scanning this thread I can see why people stay away. The whole. " CEM is easy if your not into it your doing it wrong " attitude is exactly what Im talking about. When you set your server full real your basically saying ." my way or the highway" and people vote with their feet.
Ive been playing sims since Total Air War in 98 so Im not a noob. But I personally cant be arsed with CEM. Id rather concentrate on the tactics and essence of air combat. Engine management isnt that. If I wanted to play MSFS thats what Id be playing. Same goes for having to navigate without icons. WTF! how elitist is that BS.

Its not rocket science. If you offer people the opportunity of doing a new hobby and then you try to make it as hard as possible right at the start. Make it as frustrating as you can , with the planes engine constantly burning out before you get to the fun bit and even do some shooting. ( and at that point you don't even know what your doing wrong ) Well. can you be surprised people leave? CLOD is a game and its for entertainment. If you want more gamers you need to meet people half way. Not my way or the highway. :)

Here's the thing bud, for every person that comes here and decides they don't want to play because they don't want to learn CEM, there's a guy like me who came here BECAUSE this game has no icons and CEM. Quite simply, if ATAG ever stopped using CEM and started using floating aircraft tags, then I'd stop playing, because that's not the experience I'm looking for. There are PLENTY of other games where you can find the kind of experience YOU are looking for. There's War Thunder, Aces High, IL-2 BoS, IL-2 1946 and quite likely a bunch of others I haven't tried myself. Cliffs of Dover at the moment occupies a very important niche for people like me who want the most authentic WW2 air combat experience available, and that includes managing all aspects of my aircraft and having to spot and identify targets just like the real pilots did.

Hell, CEM aside, I don't think you realize how much having aircraft tags switched on transforms the way air combat works. I've spent hundreds of hours in Aces High and War Thunder, which both use tags, and air combat in those games quickly becomes incredibly unrealistic, with pilots able to spot and identify targets at distances far longer than was possible in real life, turning every battle into a long range boom and zoom fest and an incredibly boring scramble for the highest possible altitude, and protracted sieges on airbases where enemy pilots can hover 10 thousand feet above the airfield and still identify friend from foe on the deck. There's no element of stealth either - in real life most pilots shot down didn't see the aircraft that killed them - this almost never happens with tags switched on however.

I'm sorry CloD isn't the experience you're looking for, but don't demand we make the one good WW2 sim around easier just because you can't be arsed to learn.

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

But I personally cant be arsed with CEM. Id rather concentrate on the tactics and essence of air combat. Engine management isnt that. If I wanted to play MSFS thats what Id be playing. Same goes for having to navigate without icons. WTF! how elitist is that BS.

I think these ideas about CEM have been noted. On the other hand, part of tactics and air combat IS CEM in World War II. The pilot was the computer back then. Knowing the performance, both positive and negative of your crate becomes part, or should become part of your tactics and air combat skills. Knowing I can only push the spits RPM's so far makes me adjust my approach, or tactics.

I came to CloD hating simulations like this one, all this nonsense about prop pitch and no external views, I just want to blow shit up and look at my plane cause the graphics are awesome. It is amazing to see how quick you'll begin to enjoy CEM and only cockpit views. I prefer them now actually!

You enjoy what you want which is 100% fine, but just have an open mind to it, you'll be surprised. No one here is an elitist. That's saying we think we are better than you. I have never came across that and there will be a line of people offering help if you ask, which is basically the opposite of what an elitist would do.

Most people have an open mind about your concerns though, we just ask you return the favor. We can all have our cake and eat it too!

[56RAF_klem]

When you ask why cant you get more people and your told its CEM. How come no one seems to listen. You seem to hear it, but your not listening. Im new here and just scanning this thread I can see why people stay away. The whole. " CEM is easy if your not into it your doing it wrong " attitude is exactly what Im talking about. When you set your server full real your basically saying ." my way or the highway" and people vote with their feet.
Ive been playing sims since Total Air War in 98 so Im not a noob. But I personally cant be arsed with CEM. Id rather concentrate on the tactics and essence of air combat. Engine management isnt that. If I wanted to play MSFS thats what Id be playing. Same goes for having to navigate without icons. WTF! how elitist is that BS.

Its not rocket science. If you offer people the opportunity of doing a new hobby and then you try to make it as hard as possible right at the start. Make it as frustrating as you can , with the planes engine constantly burning out before you get to the fun bit and even do some shooting. ( and at that point you don't even know what your doing wrong ) Well. can you be surprised people leave? CLOD is a game and its for entertainment. If you want more gamers you need to meet people half way. Not my way or the highway. :)

Hi silen one, yes another reply but you shouldn't feel under attack.

There are the kind of servers you like but as has been pointed out they aren't used much. There would appear to be no appetite/community for it but I think that's only because the full-switch community has the louder voice. Look through this thread and count how many want no-CEM play. Maybe you should all get a Thread going, get together on TS and arrange to meet on one of those servers. I get the impression that many people think that ATAG own the game, the player's rights and control the servers. They don't, it's up to the community to make their own view of CoD work for them. Get together and make it work for you.

Good luck.

[silen one]

Sorererdave I guess I got confused I thought the thread was called. "How can we get more people playing CLOD?" Where in fact the thread should be called "How can we get people to play CLOD on full real just how I like it." Your reply entirely backs up what I wrote. No wiggle room. Its your way or the highway. Go play War thunder. Your right there are plenty other games out there and people are playing them. Rather than this legacy game. Isnt that the point? I dont want to have a go at you in particular , but cant you see the go play another game attitude is part of the problem?

As to aircraft tags you make a good point. I was really talking about full real Il2 servers where you have no icon on the map for yourself. So if you get lost you cant find the battle or even your base as you have no idea what grid your on. The whole thing become a map reading exercise. Visual identification of planes , enemy planes with no icons. Im totally fine with that.

Klem, dave , others. Yes I want to persevere. If i didn't I wouldn't be here or retrying this old, beautiful and largely ignored sim. Id really like to have a go at teamspeak and do some flying. Thanks for your input :) Lets all remember the threads name though. " How Can We Get More People to Play Clod?"

[ATAG_Colander]

Please don't confuse the game with the servers.
Anyone can setup a server with icons on and CEM disabled. Agreed, most of us currently here don't like it like that but that doesn't mean that there are not some players out there that would like to play like that and perhaps in the future switch to full real.

In short, CloD is not full real, the servers are.

[SorcererDave]

Sorererdave I guess I got confused I thought the thread was called. "How can we get more people playing CLOD?" Where in fact the thread should be called "How can we get people to play CLOD on full real just how I like it." Your reply entirely backs up what I wrote. No wiggle room. Its your way or the highway. Go play War thunder. Your right there are plenty other games out there and people are playing them. Rather than this legacy game. Isnt that the point? I dont want to have a go at you in particular , but cant you see the go play another game attitude is part of the problem?

I feel like you're implying the only way to get more people to play CloD is to make it easier. I would contend that's not the case. In fact there's not much point in doing that - those other games exist in abundance, and they're perfectly good at what they do. I don't really honestly see what's to be gained by trying to make the online Cliffs of Dover experience more like those other games when they already have that particular niche nailed down to a T. Hence my "go play those instead" comments.


As to aircraft tags you make a good point. I was really talking about full real Il2 servers where you have no icon on the map for yourself. So if you get lost you cant find the battle or even your base as you have no idea what grid your on. The whole thing become a map reading exercise. Visual identification of planes , enemy planes with no icons. Im totally fine with that.

Ah I see. Well at the risk of sounding like a broken record, as far as navigation is concerned, you'll get better at it with practice. Luckily all (bar one or two) of the missions on the ATAG server take place on coastlines, which after familiarizing yourself with the terrain and having a good look at your map, makes navigation a doddle. It's not like trying to navigate across the eastern front or the pacific ocean in IL-2 1946 which to this day I still can't do without turning map icons on.

The main thing to bear in mind here is that for most CloD players, the aerial combat is only one part of the experience. CEM, navigation, all of that is just as important a part of the experience for us as dogfighting is. I do however see your point, and it's one worth making.


Please don't confuse the game with the servers.

This is so easy to say and yet the reality is that ATAG basically has a monopoly on the online player base. You might say "well, go make another server with your preferred settings" but the fact of the matter is that getting even 10 people on one of the other servers at the same time is a real struggle. I truly wish this wasn't the case because even though I enjoy my time on ATAG, I enjoy variety even more. Right now as it stands, outside of special campaigns organized by other clans and squadrons, if you want to play CloD online, you pretty much have to fly on ATAG. So unless something changes radically around here, in practical terms, the ATAG server = the game.

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

I was just browsing Amazon and saw the Cliffs is still at 3 stars, with more 1 star ratings than 5. Then I began to read the comments of the 1 star users...

Nearly 75% of the ones I read through have nothing to do with the game itself! Its either steam, or amazon's DL didn't work, or the game isn't compatible with windows 8, you have to mod it, so on. Its a shame that a lot of the negativity this game gets today is based on outside, uncontrollable forces. I understand the negative response when it first came out but come on... doesn't this frustrate anyone else?

[silen one]

I remember when IL2 first came out. It was so much better than Janes WW@ fighters and MCFS2 around at that time. There were tons of people playing on-line Sim HQ was heaving with action and updates. Was that 13 years ago? For me those were the good times. It seems to me sims kind of lost their way after that.Look at Sim HQ now. You can see the tumbleweeds blowing though the middle of the ghost town.
If you say anything against full real over as Il2 BOS youll get flamed in a nanosecond. Same at DCS but even more so and ruder with it. Same subject getting pitched over there. Why so few players. Why a shrinking base? Well I think of the saying " The definition of madness is doing the same thing over ant over the same way and expecting and different outcome." I dont think full real on its own has largely killed off our hobby. But its played its part. Broken games like CLOD havnt helped , nor inaccessible games like DCS A10c. But I digress. The thread asks How Can We Get More People to Play Clod? The answer is there. but you wont give an inch to get new players.Who might later get interested in full real. This, your either full in or go play something else mentality is endemic in the hobby. Its one of the attitudes thats killing it unfortunately.

Ill persevere with CLOD and Ill give it a good shot. Your forums a lot more polite than many and some of the tutorials Iv found here have made it all look less arcane. Thanks for that . Thats a good start. I gotta say though. You have to be pretty motivated to even get this far. lol.

[JimmyBlonde]

Let people see for themselves how good it is, download a video capture program and make some movies.

And then, as the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation is wont to say:

Share and Enjoy

[ATAG_Dave]

I remember when IL2 first came out. It was so much better than Janes WW@ fighters and MCFS2 around at that time. There were tons of people playing on-line Sim HQ was heaving with action and updates. Was that 13 years ago? For me those were the good times. It seems to me sims kind of lost their way after that.Look at Sim HQ now. You can see the tumbleweeds blowing though the middle of the ghost town.
If you say anything against full real over as Il2 BOS youll get flamed in a nanosecond. Same at DCS but even more so and ruder with it. Same subject getting pitched over there. Why so few players. Why a shrinking base? Well I think of the saying " The definition of madness is doing the same thing over ant over the same way and expecting and different outcome." I dont think full real on its own has largely killed off our hobby. But its played its part. Broken games like CLOD havnt helped , nor inaccessible games like DCS A10c. But I digress. The thread asks How Can We Get More People to Play Clod? The answer is there. but you wont give an inch to get new players.Who might later get interested in full real. This, your either full in or go play something else mentality is endemic in the hobby. Its one of the attitudes thats killing it unfortunately.

Ill persevere with CLOD and Ill give it a good shot. Your forums a lot more polite than many and some of the tutorials Iv found here have made it all look less arcane. Thanks for that . Thats a good start. I gotta say though. You have to be pretty motivated to even get this far. lol.

As has been mentioned above there are servers available today with out full switch realism (eg AX dogfight).

Recently Osprey tried setting up a server with reduced realism to act as a stepping stone type server. It sounded like a great idea - more accessible to more people and some of them will want to progress onto full switch. The reality is no one used it - I think its been removed as a result (im not 100% sure on that fact).

I think pretty much everyone here would welcome another server with less realism being successful - the more people playing clod the better, regardless of settings. But my guess is games like war thunder (thats what got me into flight sims) already cater very well for that reduced realism market.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Recently Osprey tried setting up a server with reduced realism to act as a stepping stone type server. It sounded like a great idea - more accessible to more people and some of them will want to progress onto full switch. The reality is no one used it - I think its been removed as a result (im not 100% sure on that fact).

I think pretty much everyone here would welcome another server with less realism being successful - the more people playing clod the better, regardless of settings. But my guess is games like war thunder (thats what got me into flight sims) already cater very well for that reduced realism market.

Dave is spot on here. Osrepy (ACG) did put up such a server recently for a few months. Pretty much no-one flew on it, and it was taken down.

At the moment, there is no clear indication that a low-realism server will even be patronized by players.
I'll bet that if an "CEM-off" server had 20 or 30 people in it for most of the time, it would not get taken down.

CEM-off servers also have to compete with War Thunder. That game is very "pretty" and has more aircraft and is designed for the arcade player. I just ca't see CloD, in an CEM-off form, having any impact on that player base.

@Silent One, if you were aware of a couple of hundred potential players who would migrate to CloD if a CEM-off server was set up, I'll bet you'd get your wish (for an CEM-off server). However, unfortunately as it may seem, the "build it and they will come" strategy has been tried already, and it failed.

In the meantime, I can only suggest that;
1. You take a look at the other lower-realism and dogfight servers that are already available, and/or
2. You take your request for a CEM-off server to one of the other hosts such as AX or maybe the guys who run Lead-farm... to see if they want to add any additional player environments.

edit/ update: Due to complaint about the use of "arcade" I have replaced it with "CEM-off".

[silen one]

So if its not full real its Arcade? Could you please be more condescending? No sorry, forget that , I dont think thats possible.lol.

[Bucksnort]

So if its not full real its Arcade? Could you please be more condescending? No sorry, forget that , I dont think thats possible.lol.

Yeah, when you disable CEM mouse flying is automatically enabled along with cartoon art and colors, goofy FM's, radar thingies all over your screen and instant action. CloD is just awful without CEM.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

So if its not full real its Arcade? Could you please be more condescending? No sorry, forget that , I dont think thats possible.lol.

There's no need to be defensive about the term "arcade".

You've set up the false dichotomy, not me. "arcade" is simply shorthand. Call it what you like. Non-CEM, Lower-realism.
I'm sorry if the use of the term has negative connotations for you. It doesn't for me. If you'd rather I pick another term then I will edit the entire post and replace it with a term of your choice. No trouble.

The problem is, with games like CloD, you got so many various levels of potential "difficulty/ realism"

Icons on/off?
Map path on/off?
External views on/off?
CEM on/off?
Unlimited amo on/off?
Stalls and spins on/off?
Weather effects on/off?
Blackouts on/off?

The list goes on. To simply state "no-CEM" as a descriptor for a server that might contain any combination of all the other settings starts becoming a little bit confusing....

In fact I have updated the previous post. Perhaps now we can look past the terminology and focus on the points I was trying to make.

[9./JG52 Mindle]

In the time you have taken to write all this you could have learned to fly full real. Not being facetious, it really isn't that hard to do and then you will have the best combat flight sim experience out there.

[silen one]

Bucksnort. v funny :)

Philstyle . Thanks for your post. And respect to you for changing your wording :) Arcade for most folks on the other side of the fence reads as , theres the " real " pilots and the space invaders pilots. You could see how that would rub guys who want complex flight models but no CEM the wrong way ;) If I wanted to play an arcade game Id buy a playstation :) So Ill give CEM a shot.

Mindle . Your quite right. Enough talk time to get flying :)

[9./JG52 Mindle]

[emoji1]

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Philstyle . Thanks for your post. And respect to you for changing your wording :) Arcade for most folks on the other side of the fence reads as , theres the " real " pilots and the space invaders pilots. You could see how that would rub guys who want complex flight models but no CEM the wrong way ;) If I wanted to play an arcade game Id buy a playstation :):)

Understood mate. I was begin lazy by resorting to the use of "arcade", I'll admit.

If there is real demand for a non-CEM multiplayer environment in Cliffs, someone will provide it. It might just be a matter of asking around more widely? (I genuinely do not know if there are other out there who might be thinking along similar lines as yourself)

[b0czek]

but but... CEM is the reason I - after Otyg said about 'this different game' somewhere in WT forums - quit WarThunders' SB/FRB for CloD+TF. :)

I think we should not atract people with CEM-off, becaue in my opinion we start to compete with WarThunder. I doubt it is the way. We will not bring RB guys, because of mouse steering. Similar with SB - because of graphics and a number of airplanes models. Even there SB mode is not crowded place - there is usually much more pilots here on ATAG than in SB. CloD on ATAG offers a niche and this is clue. It gives us a small window to look at history...

.. and it gives bomber cocpits, which WarThunder probably never will (this is the news we can spread on WT forums). :D

Speaking for myself - first few sorties I died because of overreving engine, forgetting about opening rads after warm up, etc. etc... And I've got hooked, this is it - plane behaves like plane. My inputs get logicall response. ;)

And this is also a barrier: joystick and required knowledge (which does not seem to be much for person interested in, but for other it is). I've got 4 mates, I've bring them to RB in WT from AB. We still fly together from time to time. They like it, but I did not get them to SB or CloD until now. Maybe I will bring them as crewmembers one they. ;)

So - all depends on what people are looking for...

[Bezar]

^

People play what they like to play. In those line in mind, sim game's for simers, so for hard core gamers. Now if you look on average age of this community 60% or more are older players 30+.

You can't lure(youngsters) from wt mouse-drivers and click per kill, they play what they want to, so bee it. No noo nooo, CloD shouldn't have nicknames over aircraft bull...

Guys interested in sims will find CloD, just keep the good work as it is.

I started my aircombat in WT year ago, then 8 months later, mate from squad invited me to il-2 series, my whole world broke down. That propaganda... wt isn't sim, is clear to me now, they just call it that n' historical accurate my ass. I really thought that wt is sim...

Once a time is nice to place youtube link to clodTF here or there, maybe there's some one like me, who don't know what Sturmovik is all about.

[ATAG_Flare]

I think we need to understand what makes people play CloD in order to implement strategies to increase the playerbase. Here's how I started to play CloD. (And I was 11 or 12 when I found out about it, so it's possible to get young guys lke me to play!)

It started when a friend sent me this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04atCxtxVug . It made me realize that there was a really neat flying game out there, and I desperately wanted to play it. However, the only computers in the house were a Mac laptop and an old clunker with Windows Me and 256MB of RAM. So, I pestered my parents for a computer. They weren't so enthusiastic about it at first, but eventually I got the OK and ordered parts for a pretty good gaming rig! (see signature) The day I got Windows 7 installed, I bought and downloaded CloD. I soon realized that this was no keyboard and mouse game, so I purchased the good ole Logitech 3D Pro which I still use today. This was still pre-TF, but I was amazed at the damage model and realism. I found out about the ATAG server quickly, as it was the only one in the server browser that consistently had players online! CEM was way over my head, so was takeoff and landing, but slowly I got the hang of that darn Spitfire! To be able to get it in the air and fight was so rewarding. I revised my tactics, (changed from hat switch to numpad for views - if you have no trackir it works great! ) learned some dogfighting skills, and eventually got my first kill! I'm 14 now and I fly frequently (as many of you know) and am on TS whenever I fly, and I can say that there is no game more fun than CloD, no game with a better community than CloD (I've never actually met and got to know people in any other game), and no game more rewarding than CloD. I love it! I really don't see how anyone couldn't enjoy this game. All we need to do is post links to these excellent videos on sites like the WT subreddit and forums and I expect the playerbase to increase. Also, ACG your idea to give copies away to those interested is a great idea and all you need to do it advertise it. Some places to do so are the WT forums and subreddit and also here: http://www.reddit.com/r/randomactsofgaming . Good luck ATAG to gaining a bigger playerbase!

flare

[JimmyBlonde]

Limiting the difficulty to me is like saying to people "Hey, here's an F1 car. Take it for a spin!" and then fixing the gearbox so that it won't go above 50. It's not playing to the real appeal of a sim like Cliffs of Dover and it's not fooling anyone.

If you want more people to play CloD then you have to say, "Hey, here's an F1 car and a change of underpants, knock yourself out." Make something of the sheer skill factor required, throw down the gauntlet. What I mean is pushing the angle that this is a high fidelity simulation, we're not screwing around here. If you can master this game then you've got some serious gamer skills. Look at Dark Souls, it's not a particularly great game but the difficulty factor attracts people from far and wide to try their hand against the game's reputation. In the world of flight simulation we have several advantages over Derp Rolls (As I call it).

Our best asset is our community, I've seen people in flight sims who basically fall over themselves to help new players participate. There's a generosity and camaraderie in our games that other genres could only dream of as well as an established culture and tradition that goes back decades. How many callsigns have you seen kicking around the virtual skies since Air Warrior and CFS 1? Not many other genres can boast that level of commitment.

Our greatest obstacles are the intimidation factor that gamers experience approaching a title like CloD and the cost of the hardware required to make the most of the experience. People are afraid of failure, of being mocked, of their ignorance and presumed inadequacy. We need to foster some kind of "Hey, look at these cool planes. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to fly one, come on in and we can help make a pilot of you!" style of tutorial and training system that reduces this intimidation factor. Some in game instructional missions pitched with the appropriate level of humor and accesibility would help, like the Rod Machado tutorials in FSX.

People also have to be prepared for the grim fact that they will need to outlay for things like Joysticks, TrackIR, Rudder pedals and other peripherals. This limits the demographic we can access in both a positive and negative way, by keeping out the casuals and time wasters and by providing us with players who have a sufficient level of determination to meet these requirements. Once a player is in the game the naturally occurring communication with other players kick in and this is where the community really shines. Plenty of us have a spare stick or something kicking around for a promising newcomer, someone who has shown enough initiative. desire to learn more and determination to make the first steps on their own and many of us don't mind parting with it. I think we recognize in each other the same sort of childhood wonder that has driven a fellow traveler into our midst and that is why our community works the way it does.

So, in summary:

Publicity that challenges gamers to participate without being to wanky or intimidating.
Tutorials that ease players into the experience.
Game mechanics that shepard new players into the community (eg: Official TS servers with in-game UI references)
Keeping the community positive.

[silen one]

Jimmy I think your summary at the end really sums it up. All 4 points.
Youtube is our biggest friend here. Its an advert site and a teaching site.

While I like the damage modeling in BOS more than Clod . CEM seems less arcane than than in BOS. Clod is a much more beautiful game graphics wise though. The cockpits and shadows etc are just jaw dropping. The more I play it the more I like it.

[56RAF_klem]

Another possibility is to make Lewis's excellent Thread on "Beginners guide to Cliffs of Dover - Start here" much more prominent (like at the top) but also ask him to put in an early 'diversion' link to a Thread for players finding, or might find, CoD too difficult to begin with before they get buried in the extensive advice for setup and full switch play, possibly too deep water for complete newbies.

No offence Lewis, it's an excellent and comprehensive post, but I wonder if some new guys, especially those only used to WT etc (or no FS's at all) find it overwhelming. Currently, it takes them through a raft of stuff then sends them directly to the ATAG full switch server. A new beginners thread could give them a much reduced detail on setup (assume just a joystick) and point them to a list of those easier servers (or an ATAG beginners server) and their TS's with an encouragement to 'move up' on setups and servers when they are ready. Maybe also a recommendation about best play-times, e.g. for Europe, USA, SEA, evenings and weekends, so there's a chance they might actually meet someone on line. I also think an ATAG TS Server section for beginners is crucial to eliminate that frustrating 'all alone' feeling, a place to collect and learn together, maybe even with a message about where to ask for help on the TS server.

'Easy settings' servers running the ATAG/ACG type missions might also get new guys into the whole 'mission' mindset as well as just killing stuff. I know 'easy' servers have been tried before but there may not have been easy enough communication about them.

I think one of the biggest problems is them finding the Front Door. It would be great if every 'other forum' post and the Youtube videos etc could send them to the ATAG forum, probably Lewis's Beginner's thread.

[ATAG_Dave]

So, in summary:

Publicity that challenges gamers to participate without being to wanky or intimidating.
Tutorials that ease players into the experience.
Game mechanics that shepard new players into the community (eg: Official TS servers with in-game UI references)
Keeping the community positive.

Lots that i agree with in that post JimmyBlonde , re the 4 above summary points:
1 Fantastic use of the word wanky - a much underused term IMO :)
2 Watch this space....
3 Im not clever enough to understand that
4 100% agree - Clod is a great game. The TF mods are incredible. But its the community that makes the biggest difference IMO. I was blown away by the welcome I received when i first ventured over here - I remember it felt like I had found my gaming home :thumbsup:

[Vaxxtx]

I have to admit I have not read through all 21 pages, so please do correct me if I am wrong, but does anyone do a "Newbie Night" open training?

Usually squads run them in other sims I played, but CLoD is definitely different in that sense.

Back when I started with DCS Blackshark, I played lots of offline in order to learn the basics: startup, take off, land, and basic weapon systems. Then it was shopping around for an online group that had similar interests. Joined one and went through a basic training schedule weekly. Now, of course it helped that my squad mate and now friend that trained me was a combat active Apache pilot. But in a months time, there was nothing in the Ka50 that I could not do, including weapon systems, maneuvers, radio, radar, flight plans, ....well you get the point. But also there was a nice cross-interest in the A10 folks in the squad to learn the Ka50 and vice versa. We started doing Ka50 open training to the squad, and it got so popular that we opened it up to the public. It was a relaxed atmosphere that everyone could enjoy as a group, and since it was running on a server that was utilizing our training map, there was no pressure to hurry and learn then go kill. And it was common for an instructor to jump into a private channel with someone to give more detailed info on a specific area.

Having something similar I could see bring people out of their shell, especially the ones that have been lurking about but cautious due to being the single lone newb. There have been some great folks on this board (in this thread) that have offered to help me get started, but I guess I am such a nice guy that I would feel somewhat awkward to take someones game time to help me out. Not only that but my playtime being mostly on the weekends tends to be "light" compared to others.

Anyway, a grand campaign posted on the forums about "Always wanted to try the new and improved CLoD with TF? Always wanted to get airborn on full switch? Maybe just curious about how all this works? Then come join us on _________ and ________ dates and times"

Dunno, just thinking out loud I guess.

[Otyg]

Vaxxtx. There is a sub forum called flight school where you can request a toutor or just drop in to ts and ask for a hand.
But people maybe don't know it. Not sure how it could be more advertised tho. I know you seem to know it, i just wanted to point it out.

And if you want a hand in the 109 I and more people(as you said) can an will help you.


I have a idea about posting on different boards about having a evening where we organise bomber raids and people can join in as gunners.
No skills needed just tag along in a Stuka/110/ju88/blennie and enjoy the game with no stress.
Hmmm..

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

I have a idea about posting to different boards about having a evening where we organise bomber raids and people can join in as gunners.
No skills needed just tag along in a Stuka/110/ju88/blennie and enjoy the game with no stress.
Hmmm..

Excellent idea. Plus the game only costs $10 US. This would be a great way to hook-line-sinker a bigger audience. No real skills, just jump in my bomber and shoot at shit. Then they will see the level of detail in this sim and might want to stick around.

You my friend, deserve some reputation points. :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Flare]

I have a idea about posting on different boards about having a evening where we organise bomber raids and people can join in as gunners.
No skills needed just tag along in a Stuka/110/ju88/blennie and enjoy the game with no stress.
Hmmm..

+1 Good idea.

[ChiefRedCloud]

There's no need to be defensive about the term "arcade".

You've set up the false dichotomy, not me. "arcade" is simply shorthand. Call it what you like. Non-CEM, Lower-realism.
I'm sorry if the use of the term has negative connotations for you. It doesn't for me. If you'd rather I pick another term then I will edit the entire post and replace it with a term of your choice. No trouble.

The problem is, with games like CloD, you got so many various levels of potential "difficulty/ realism"

Icons on/off?
Map path on/off?
External views on/off?
CEM on/off?
Unlimited amo on/off?
Stalls and spins on/off?
Weather effects on/off?
Blackouts on/off?

The list goes on. To simply state "no-CEM" as a descriptor for a server that might contain any combination of all the other settings starts becoming a little bit confusing....

In fact I have updated the previous post. Perhaps now we can look past the terminology and focus on the points I was trying to make.

My better judgment says "Stay Out of This Conversation". But as usual, here I am. I agree with Phil here in that 1) Arcade is a fair description of describing lowered setting for servers. It's also more or less what we use for our Basic Training server over at New Wings. But then we also provide a PvP and a historical server also. My point is that 'WE' should not be offended by mear terms. Unless censorship is prevalent, we all have a wide view of opinions I believe. War Thunder is "Arcadish" if you ask me. But, it servers a purpose and if it you like it, there is nothing wrong with it. I've tried it and decided not to play it. But this is not about WT, it's about what we like in a Flight Simulation, i.e. Cliffs of Dover.

So I hope you'll forgive me when I say we need to get past the incense over the word Arcade and get on with promoting Cliffs of Dover.

Chief

[Bucksnort]

My better judgment says "Stay Out of This Conversation". But as usual, here I am. I agree with Phil here in that 1) Arcade is a fair description of describing lowered setting for servers. It's also more or less what we use for our Basic Training server over at New Wings. But then we also provide a PvP and a historical server also. My point is that 'WE' should not be offended by mear terms. Unless censorship is prevalent, we all have a wide view of opinions I believe. War Thunder is "Arcadish" if you ask me. But, it servers a purpose and if it you like it, there is nothing wrong with it. I've tried it and decided not to play it. But this is not about WT, it's about what we like in a Flight Simulation, i.e. Cliffs of Dover.

So I hope you'll forgive me when I say we need to get past the incense over the word Arcade and get on with promoting Cliffs of Dover.

Chief

CloD with CEM turned off is a far cry from WarThunder, yet its lumped into the same arcade crowd with it here in the ATAG forum . Why would you guys do that disservice to CloD? Do you really think that the only difference between WarThunder and CloD is CEM? What message does that send to a passerby of this forum who may be considering CloD for the first time?

[silen one]

Bucksnort totally agree.

Chief, What is it with you guys and War thunder and dismissive terms like arcade. I thought we'd covered this earlier in the thread. To everyones satisfaction, move on.

The idea of advertising an event on other forums is a good idea. I know a lot of people out there dont even know people are still playing it. I thin others will try a $10 legacy game if they thought there would be players.

Maybe someone should write to SIMHQ and ask for help in promotion. Eg a promotion month. Where our servers have planned games people can drop into With article on front page. While SIMHQ is a shadow of its former self. Much like flight simming. Its still a portal for a lot of forum use and gets a lot of traffic. It would make you visible to people on other platforms. Other sites with a news front page apply also . Like combatace , which is very much alive. Im sure you can think of other sites. If you do a " come and join us on out full real server on your first try of the game. " Youll only see a lot of them once.

[Peccator]

I just started playing this game last week.

For me, what got me excited to play it was this review: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2756-il2-cliff-dover-now-very-good/

If there are others out there like me, then what needs to happen is to get the news out that this game is now fun to play. Which is why I'm writing this. Maybe someone searching Google for "fun wwii flight sim" will see this post, or the other couple of posts I've made here and there and give Cliffs of Dover a second look. Or what is more likely, maybe linking to that article will increase its reputation on Google just a little bit, and others will read that article and give the game another look.

My 2 cents anyway.

A second subject: now that I'm here playing this game offline, what will it take to get me to come online regularly?

I can only answer this for me, but I logged onto ATAG the 2nd day after I installed the sim because, Lewis and a few others of you ATAG guys were so friendly and inviting. I would say the biggest answer to this question is to keep up what you are already doing. Other than that, strive to be welcoming once people get online. For me, that didn't exactly happen my first time flying with y'all. But I'm sure it will the next time, or the time after that.

A flight sim is an intimidating thing all by itself, adding in a full real server and not being able to start the plane makes it worse yet. It took me 5 tries to even get out of the hanger ... true story. It took me another 5 tries to figure out which direction the runway was (I know it shouldn't take more than 4, but I took 5). Add in another 5 tries to get over 1000 feet of elevation. Now, add to all that the intimidation of joining a group of strangers that all get along very well and (no matter how friendly you all are), will look at you as an outsider. That's going to be a tough nut to crack for new players.

At the risk of making a long reply even longer, here's my opinion:
Video games are 30 seconds of fun repeated over and over. Find what those 30 seconds are for new players and give it to them. For me, 30 seconds of fun as a new player is getting off the ground and landing for the first time. Or making a friend online. Or realizing that I can add value to my team just by following around a good pilot and checking his 6. Or realizing I'm flying the same plane that my grandpa flew in WWII, and that others around me are having the same experience. Most people probably think that the 30 seconds of fun is shooting down another plane. That may take weeks if not months to achieve. Fun needs to be found much earlier than that.

TLDR: This game is very playable. ATAG is a great community. Keep up the good work. Spread the news. Help new players have fun.

[Peccator]

If Quick Missions can be added to, then there should be one to practice taking off. If adding to the standard quick missions is possible it would be great if that was a part of the standard Team Fusion installer. Right now I see several options for practicing take-off, all of which are bad.

1. Play online (bad because it is too intimidating)
2. Create your own mission in FMB (bad because it is too advanced)
3. Play the career mode. I'm guessing there will eventually be a mission that requires you to start the engine (bad because it takes too long)
4. Play the training missions. (Bad because it isn't a Spitfire or 109)

While we are on the subject, I'd also like quick missions for a lot of other training type of things, but take-off would be the one mandatory thing.

Why does this help new players play? The sooner you can get players an enjoyable online experience the better, and starting a Spit or 109 is a hindrance to that.

[ATAG_Dave]

If Quick Missions can be added to, then there should be one to practice taking off. If adding to the standard quick missions is possible it would be great if that was a part of the standard Team Fusion installer. Right now I see several options for practicing take-off, all of which are bad.

1. Play online (bad because it is too intimidating)
2. Create your own mission in FMB (bad because it is too advanced)
3. Play the career mode. I'm guessing there will eventually be a mission that requires you to start the engine (bad because it takes too long)
4. Play the training missions. (Bad because it isn't a Spitfire or 109)

While we are on the subject, I'd also like quick missions for a lot of other training type of things, but take-off would be the one mandatory thing.

Why does this help new players play? The sooner you can get players an enjoyable online experience the better, and starting a Spit or 109 is a hindrance to that.

One alternative is to use the ATAG server #2 for practice of these things though i agree with the sentiment that having a quick mission for take off (& one for landing) where players can practice using a plane of their choice would be a nice addition :thumbsup:

I hope to see you back online soon - if you see me on TS (im not always in the main channel but dont let that put you off, just pop in and say hi) ill be happy to try and help you out - though I only can do so if its RAF fighters :)

:salute:

EDIT: Dont forget there is also the ATAG flight school http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=128 :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Lewis]

I always try to get new players to fly online soon because that is exactly what I did and a few of my friends....We all had around 30 minutes offline and then took the plunge....All the take off and landing stuff, negotiating runways and hangars can be learned online...which is how I did it....You also have the opportunity to ask others for help and with this really friendly helpful community you will get help pretty fast....The only real thing you need to do offline is setup your controls around 70%...then fine tune them online when you realise that a certain key is way out of reach...

The other point here is that the ATAG server is a full real server and many new pilots in real life only had a few hours in Spitfires and some had not even fired their guns before risking their lives in combat......a lot more at risk than you will risk as a virtual pilot...

[Leifr]

If Quick Missions can be added to, then there should be one to practice taking off. If adding to the standard quick missions is possible it would be great if that was a part of the standard Team Fusion installer. Right now I see several options for practicing take-off, all of which are bad.

1. Play online (bad because it is too intimidating)
2. Create your own mission in FMB (bad because it is too advanced)
3. Play the career mode. I'm guessing there will eventually be a mission that requires you to start the engine (bad because it takes too long)
4. Play the training missions. (Bad because it isn't a Spitfire or 109)

While we are on the subject, I'd also like quick missions for a lot of other training type of things, but take-off would be the one mandatory thing.

Why does this help new players play? The sooner you can get players an enjoyable online experience the better, and starting a Spit or 109 is a hindrance to that.

There are other servers out there (contrary to belief), that offer an alternative possibility to the continuous team deathmatch that one may find on ATAG. The Storm of War server runs continuously; every airfield is generally accessible in each mission, including training airfields featuring Tiger Moths (amongst other possibilities). One may practice their chosen aircraft as often as they desire without threat of the enemy.

[bolox]

If Quick Missions can be added to, then there should be one to practice taking off

Quick missions can be added to (by anyone- if they want:P)- in fact TF releases have added a couple of quick missions with each patch.

There is a quick mission to practice take offs:- Cross County. Change plane as you wish.


I'd also like quick missions for a lot of other training type of things
Care to list them- Ideas are always welcome- it's very easy for 'old hands' to forget what new players feel they need..
Training missions are infact something I'm looking at- though I think single missions/campaign might be more suitable- particularly with briefings as details are often different for different AC if any detail is put in briefings.

[Ginge]

My perspective on this topic, being brand new to CloD, might have something to do with flying ability. After only a few flights with the engine management on etc. I am a totally rubbish pilot. I suspect this will continue for some time until I get to know the key presses and joystick buttons. Also, getting to know the envelope in which my aircraft will perform. Spinning at low level has become a specialty of mine. Thus, I suspect there are others who are reluctant to expose themselves to becoming the object of much mirth, online. Let's face it. People want to contribute and not be an encumbrance. I'm sure I will earn my wings after a while and join the online department.

[SorcererDave]

My perspective on this topic, being brand new to CloD, might have something to do with flying ability. After only a few flights with the engine management on etc. I am a totally rubbish pilot. I suspect this will continue for some time until I get to know the key presses and joystick buttons. Also, getting to know the envelope in which my aircraft will perform. Spinning at low level has become a specialty of mine. Thus, I suspect there are others who are reluctant to expose themselves to becoming the object of much mirth, online. Let's face it. People want to contribute and not be an encumbrance. I'm sure I will earn my wings after a while and join the online department.

Oh don't worry, even the best of us still spin out and crash into the sea from time to time. What with this being a game rather than real life, we all push the planes in this sim much further than all but the most experienced aces probably would have done in reality. And the result is usually embarrassing stunts, stalls and spins. You're learning, just like the pilots did in reality, and I'm quite sure nobody would laugh at your expense online. When I see even an enemy do something silly when flying online my first instinct is to help them, and if they ask, show them what went wrong. I've quite happily in the past flown with people and let them shoot me so they can test things like ammo types or just practice their deflection shooting. Cliffs of Dover has one of the finest communities in online gaming. You won't be a burden to anyone. In fact many of us get a kick out of helping people learn the game.

[Mr_Deth]

Just adding my two (maybe more like three to five) cents but "word of mouth" is the easiest and cheapest route that I can think of to make more players aware of CLoD, Team Fusion and ATAG right now. For instance, I've added CLoD to my Steam reviews... first and foremost a positive one for the game... and then to mention it as an alternative in my reviews of other flight combat sim games I've played that have serious problems like War Thunder. Note that these are honest and thoughtful reviews and not flame posts as is consistent with your community vibe. ATAG could certainly promote a drive to get CLoD players to add their own positive reviews and up the game rating on Steam so it becomes more visible. (Perhaps request players do this in the new player guide?) As things stand, it was a lucky find via a small mention in a buried Steam review for an entirely different game that led me to investigate CLoD further. I've also mentioned CLoD in flight sim sub-Reddits that I frequent although be warned that these are often removed or censored in tightly controlled ones about specific games like War Thunder. Also be warned that posting in dev owned Steam or online forums will certainly be censored and can quickly get you banned. I haven't looked but am assuming you have your own social media initiatives with Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. pages. (Once again, links with "Like Us on Facebook" and "Follow us on Twitter" can be added to the new player guide and forum admin signatures if they haven't already.) I think some SEO work could also be done to get CLoD, Team Fusion and ATAG on a first page of Google ranked sites when you search for broad terms like "flight sim", "battle of Brittan", "spitfire", "109", "ww2 air combat", and so on. Finally, I've mentioned the game to others I fly with which can certainly increase interest if many CLoD players do this regularly.

As a business owner however... I tend to think big. One thought is to license the code or buy full rights to the game to have control of its features, direction, marketing, etc. as has been done with many games in the past. If personal wealth of the primary CLoD coders makes this an issue then perhaps it could be accomplished by a private or public player community investment, through someplace like Kickstarter or by courting more formal business investors. You could then do things like rebrand it to make it fresh. You could standardize the FM (and make it easier to join servers) for a quick click multi-player arcade mode for entry level and casual players. A base version could be offered for free on Steam with pay products like plane packs, full realism access and/or online subscriptions. You can offer promotions and directly reward players in organized events. Once it's bringing in more entry level players as well as bringing in revenue you can formalize a paid team who can focus on growing the product. You could possibly attract support interest from seasoned devs like Damon Slye who led the RB3D and Ace of Aces teams and has recently expressed interest in re-launching a flight sim. This would be risky though because once you give it away to another dev team, they could reap the profits from your hard work and/or lead it in a direction you don't want it to go. Once you have a game with some momentum, you could easily approach game reviewers as a bunch of gamers taking a POS and turning it into a great game through hard work and devotion amidst all the latest half-baked, greed driven, flight sims with devs that crap on their own community is a great story.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud as I saw the same situation with RB3D years (decades!) ago where a very devoted (and very nice) community improved a game but struggled to bring it to the next level... so I sincerely hope that you achieve even greater success with CLoD.

[ATAG_Lewis]

Mr.Deth.....What you have said above is one of the most helpful posts on this issue for a very long time...So much food for thought...Great to hear your input especially through the eyes of a business owner...and thanks also for breathing life back into this issue...That can only be good

Some of the points you have raised I certainly have not encountered yet as the instigator of this thread and I hope others here read your opinions above...

As I am sure you have not read this whole thread (I don't think anyone could its so big now) and so just to round up... We were aware that CLOD was not reviewed well from the beginning due to its crashes and issues so we tried with only minimal success to rectify some of the review ratings....We did this by getting folks to update their reviews on Amazon, Steam etc. so as to take into account the work that the TF team had done to get this little gem to run correctly and playable.....The other main objective (as many of our new comers tell us that they stumbled on CLOD through videos on the net) was to try and flood Youtube with videos...again this had some effect...but minimal in comparison to other games/sims

Its a shame to us that we are a community crying out to those that initially bought this sim and then put it on a shelf...and yet we still hear it in new players posts that they too bought this sim on release and then shelved it until recently when they either saw a new vid or someone recommended it to them..

I think just recently over the past 18 months or so we have also been getting a lot of ex-WarThunder players that after getting the WW2 flight sim bug were looking for something a little more 'realistic' or different...This was great for us...and as it happens they actually make very fast learners and competitive players in the server....

Anyway...over the many months since this thread we have still not seen any real flood of players and so unfortunately still remain a small niche community...I think the community has been gradually growing since I have been here but it seems that mostly players leave at a similar rate to the numbers that find us.....Hopefully that will change one day and we will see the servers full 24/7...just like the golden years of IL2 1946

Thanks again for your input...it is very important to us....~S~

...lew...

[Mr_Deth]

Mr.Deth.....What you have said above is one of the most helpful posts on this issue for a very long time...So much food for thought...Great to hear your input especially through the eyes of a business owner...and thanks also for breathing life back into this issue...That can only be good

Some of the points you have raised I certainly have not encountered yet as the instigator of this thread and I hope others here read your opinions above...

As I am sure you have not read this whole thread (I don't think anyone could its so big now) and so just to round up... We were aware that CLOD was not reviewed well from the beginning due to its crashes and issues so we tried with only minimal success to rectify some of the review ratings....We did this by getting folks to update their reviews on Amazon, Steam etc. so as to take into account the work that the TF team had done to get this little gem to run correctly and playable.....The other main objective (as many of our new comers tell us that they stumbled on CLOD through videos on the net) was to try and flood Youtube with videos...again this had some effect...but minimal in comparison to other games/sims

Its a shame to us that we are a community crying out to those that initially bought this sim and then put it on a shelf...and yet we still hear it in new players posts that they too bought this sim on release and then shelved it until recently when they either saw a new vid or someone recommended it to them..

I think just recently over the past 18 months or so we have also been getting a lot of ex-WarThunder players that after getting the WW2 flight sim bug were looking for something a little more 'realistic' or different...This was great for us...and as it happens they actually make very fast learners and competitive players in the server....

Anyway...over the many months since this thread we have still not seen any real flood of players and so unfortunately still remain a small niche community...Hopefully that will change one day and we will see the servers full 24/7...

Thanks again for your input...it is very important to us....~S~

...lew...

Hi Lew,

Well I'm glad to hear that some of my ramblings might be useful. :whacky: I'm also quickly discovering the efforts you've all put into getting CLoD some recognition... now that I know about it. I honestly couldn't figure out how it slipped under my radar for so long which I guess is what attracted me to this thread.

I definitely had War Thunder in mind with some of my comments. It was undeniably brilliant how they offered a free version on Steam that can easily be learned by casual players who are given an incredible amount of candy like planes to play with. Of course, then they get suckered into a Sisyphusian grind and pay traps until they reach the higher tier planes/modes only to discover the FM/DM/MM's are terribly broken and ultimately burn out. So yeah, WT is definitely a great gateway drug and training tool for much more realistic sims like this one... lol.

In a way, it could be said that CLoD is perfect the way it is. From what I can see, it's a great game, there's a high barrier to entry which attracts more mature players, it's a close knit group who follow a high gaming and community standard, no one seems overwhelmed or over-worked with managing a constant tidal wave of new users who have expectations higher than what the team/game can provide and no one's going insane over money, greed and power that can come with just a little bit of commercial success. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.

Anyway, who knows what the future may bring but ATAG and TF are doing so much right that you have my thanks and support to help get the word out there. :thumbsup:

Regards,
Dave

[ATAG_Lewis]

Just a thought on Google search engine......I wonder if getting CLOD onto the first page of searches will work to advertise the sim to folks who may search things such as......'Battle of Britain', Battle of Britain game' ,'Battle of Britain PC game' , 'WW2 Aircraft PC Game'...CLOD did not appear on the first page of any of these searches...

Dave ,you mentioned something about this....I have a few questions about it....What can we do to move CLOD to the front page?....Is it a lot of work?....Is it worth it?....What other searches are people likely to use in order to find a game like CLOD?....Should we appeal to the PC gamer community or the general Battle of Britain WW2 Aircraft enthusiasts?....

[Mr_Deth]

Just a thought on Google search engine......I wonder if getting CLOD onto the first page of searches will work to advertise the sim to folks who may search things such as......'Battle of Britain', Battle of Britain game' ,'Battle of Britain PC game' , 'WW2 Aircraft PC Game'...CLOD did not appear on the first page of any of these searches...

Dave ,you mentioned something about this....I have a few questions about it....What can we do to move CLOD to the front page?....Is it a lot of work?....Is it worth it?....What other searches are people likely to use in order to find a game like CLOD?....Should we appeal to the PC gamer community or the general Battle of Britain WW2 Aircraft enthusiasts?....

From what I've seen, SEO stuff could very likely be built into your forums back end. There may also be SEO modules specifically for this available for it. (Which is this... a themed out Simple Machines?) Definitely make sure the forums aren't blocking google spiders. Key words are obviously king. Along with using the right titles for things like YouTube vids to target the right searches, there's a way to embed key words into the vid postings themselves. You can also post the same vid using multiple accounts using key words that target different segments. The nice thing about embedded key words is that you can cast a wide net and try to catch anything related. A laser guided missile approach would be to snatch up domains like cliffsofdovergame.com battleofbritiangame.com to bounce traffic back and forth with. Of course it's good to have an account with all the major social media sites like FB and Twitter and there's tools where you can post something in one place and it updates all of them automatically. Going back to forum modules, I'm pretty sure I'm seen them do things like Tweet new forum topics and Facebook popular posts without you having to do anything manually once it's set up properly. Googling, "how to get better seo on google" obviously turns up a ton of info but bare in mind that Google is constantly changing their algorithms to combat people exploiting their searches so it's a constantly moving target. Finally, spending just a few hours a month posting about CLoD in other popular public online places like Reddit, Steam, gamer forums, etc. will plant seeds that can grow into a forest over time. Anyway, this is just from my inexpert knowledge in trying to grow my biz cheaply. I can't be the only person around here who knows a little about this stuff though (maybe the TF folks or maybe we have some web devs flying?) so hopefully they chime in as well. I'll also ask a friend who has a much deeper understanding of this stuff than I do and let you know what he says.

[Continu0]

Just a short input to the google-thing:

Sharing everything you make (like a YT-Video) on google+ lets google know that YOU are the Expert on that specific topic. So, having a lively and topic-specific google+-profile is probably the easiest way to get to the google front-page...

[ATAG_Dave]

Just a thought on Google search engine......I wonder if getting CLOD onto the first page of searches will work to advertise the sim to folks who may search things such as......'Battle of Britain', Battle of Britain game' ,'Battle of Britain PC game' , 'WW2 Aircraft PC Game'...CLOD did not appear on the first page of any of these searches...

Dave ,you mentioned something about this....I have a few questions about it....What can we do to move CLOD to the front page?....Is it a lot of work?....Is it worth it?....What other searches are people likely to use in order to find a game like CLOD?....Should we appeal to the PC gamer community or the general Battle of Britain WW2 Aircraft enthusiasts?....

Mrs Dave is the expert (she does this for a living) but in simple terms (for people like me...) SEO is about making your site friendly to Googles algorithm (which is ever changing). Part of that is to optimise your site for the most popular search terms (keywords as Mr Deth describes above) that are relevant to your site - these can be determined by using google analytics though dont ask me how but Mrs Dave knows - there is no point in making your site deliver a position 1 result for people who search "CLOD" if in fact no one searches for that..... If you do it right then when someone googles (just for example) "combat flight simulator" then our site would appear somewhere near the top of page 1 of googles results.

There is a lot more to it than that but in essence that how it works. Increasingly Google is more interested in the 'usability' (easier to think of how user friendly the site is) of a site - and it has its own set of criteria for determining how 'usable' your site is. Links to social media (Facebook and all that...) are also important - I have no idea why or how.

For your other questions - Yes its not a small task and it takes time to get the results. Its worth it if you want to attract people to this site. As to who should we appeal to thats a very interesting question - we have ended up with Otyg here already so we dont want any more riff raff if we can help it :)

[ATAG_Lewis]

For my money it is more important to get the game more easily found than the ATAG website....People aren't too interested in a website about the fanatics if they haven't found the game in the first place...The folks who find the game will naturally find ATAG as soon as they start googling the game which most folks do when they find a good game they like...The key here I think is to get the sim (CLOD) out there...Can this be done?...I mean CLOD doesn't even come up on the first page if you google 'WW2 Flight sim'..but 'Birds of Steel' does...

[ATAG_Dave]

For my money it is more important to get the game more easily found than the ATAG website....People aren't too interested in a website about the fanatics if they haven't found the game in the first place...The folks who find the game will naturally find ATAG as soon as they start googling the game which most folks do when they find a good game they like...The key here I think is to get the sim (CLOD) out there...Can this be done?...I mean CLOD doesn't even come up on the first page if you google 'WW2 Flight sim'..but 'Birds of Steel' does...

Its not possible to optimise someone elses website without their help/permission. So you either make the changes to this site (I think its fair to say there would need to be a fair amount of changes not just a few tweeks) or forget the SEO option.

[Mr_Deth]

Its not possible to optimise someone elses website without their help/permission. So you either make the changes to this site (I think its fair to say there would need to be a fair amount of changes not just a few tweeks) or forget the SEO option.

Well no you can't do it from their back end but you should be able to get good results with the ones you can. And you can focus on multiple keyword topics at the same time... i.e. the game and ATAG when searching general keywords.

You could always just piggyback existing first page results. Google "ww2 battle of britain flight sim" and high in the rankings is this link...

www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?12831-Best-Battle-of-Britain-sim

Note that IL2 is mentioned but the poster doesn't know about the work done by TF and ATAG. So just respond to that post with the details and wallah... your stuff is now in a 1st page ranked link with the keywords you wanted to target. It would just probably be good to have someone do it who already has an account with several posts and a decent reputation as starting a new account and just posting one or two times to pimp your stuff can turn people off.

Heck, even this thread could get some good attention from google if it gets enough views in comparison to other sites who might be found using the same keywords.

[Mr_Deth]

For my money it is more important to get the game more easily found than the ATAG website....People aren't too interested in a website about the fanatics if they haven't found the game in the first place...The folks who find the game will naturally find ATAG as soon as they start googling the game which most folks do when they find a good game they like...The key here I think is to get the sim (CLOD) out there...Can this be done?...I mean CLOD doesn't even come up on the first page if you google 'WW2 Flight sim'..but 'Birds of Steel' does...

Ok... so my friend took a look at your theairtacticalassaultgroup.com domain in Google Analytics and said there's a serious problem... like the site has practically no ranking or stats. I can confirm this with Alexa as your site should be ranked much higher than it is based on the usage I've seen:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/theairtacticalassaultgroup.com

Sadly, Google's more recent algorithms preference newer content so tracking for the traffic you've had over the past 1-2 years is likely forever lost. However, because of your large amount of content, once Google can access the site and forums properly... it will hit them pretty hard and they should get a significant jump in rank.

So here's what you need to do to start...

-Create a Google account to use as the domain admin.

-Register the site with Google: http://google.com/addurl

-Sign up for Google Analytics. This tool will literally tell you what the issues are and how to improve your stats.

Get into the domain hosting and forums back-ends, find the SEO keyword entry fields and add all the keywords you can think of. You also want to allow Google spiders and trackers to have access to read your forums so there is likely a security or account options you need to tweak. Most forums can identify Google automatically however and you should be able to see when they're looking at your forums.

If you want to PM me the forums and site types you have, I can likely help with the built in SEO stuff without needing access to the back-ends. Once you have these basic things set up, my friend says he can provide more granular advice on how to bump up your rankings further.

[401Cdn. Beagle]

You gents are doing some class work to keep this sim alive & well and for that you deserve a lot of credit and a straight, correct salute. The reality is the bad reviews clod received shortly after its release and the release date, which needs no clarification. To be painfully honest, only hardcore flight sim junkies...the ones who have dedicated themselves to the GAME. Flying daily. Making comments on this or other forums. Taking a video or screen shot of thier victories or failures, make the difference. What you need, what we need is to keep players talking and writting about the sim.

Today @ google: WWII flight sim: http://steamcommunity.com/app/63950/discussions/0/864974467673757558/


Mr-Deth is on the right track and has many excellent suggestions. Chief threw up a Clod page on FB which should be expanded on and/or liked, and if there is a way to extend/expand interest in Clod it is facebook-twitter & co. imho.

~S beags

[EAF51_Jimmi]

the italian fanpage for TEAM FUSION

https://www.facebook.com/TeamFusionIL2?ref=hl


come on people LIKE this page!

you will see beautiful screenshots and videos and may be learn some Italian words

[Mr_Deth]

the italian fanpage for TEAM FUSION

https://www.facebook.com/TeamFusionIL2?ref=hl


come on people LIKE this page!

you will see beautiful screenshots and videos and may be learn some Italian words

Once the ATAG site gets Google tracking sorted out, we could put together a list of sites to storm. :dthumb:

[ATAG_Lewis]

Dr.Deth....Thank you for breathing new life into this thread...I find it an inspiration...Hopefully we as a community can work together and get CLOD the population it deserves...~S~

[MB_Avro_UK]

Contact Sky. Start with a newsworthy story from the BoB. (RAF, LW or Italian). Give it human context. Show vids and screenies.

The media hold the key IMO.

Just a thought,
MB_Avro

[IIJG27Rich]

Post in the other game forums that will allow it. We were on a kind of campaign or a few of us were over in the BOS forum putting up all we could think of. The high quality movies great screenshots telling people over and over that this isn't the out of box 2011 game anymore, very far from it. You could see we were getting the oos and aws from quite a few folks over there. I think it was in the "Other 1c Games" section. The good movies and clips of the big missions really help. Use some clips of that WWII TS sound too. If you fly German aeroplanes get some of the Germans talking at each other it sounds like you're really at war with the English on that WWII TS sound especially when the excellent gun sounds come up LOL The same applies for the other side with English or other common wealth accents in my oppion although we Canadians are kind of generic unless you get a Newphie... "Da away buy gedm" or Quebecer

[BOBC]

One thing that would help is make it easy for beginners to get to grips with the basics of getting operational, we have the guide to mod installation, that is vital and very useful, but I have spent weeks after achieving that, initially finding out how to get external views and still images without freezing up the sim (F12 froze it guaranteed for me) then just finding out how to get a 109 to fly with my chosen units markings and camouflage, as there doesnt appear to be a guide on how to achieve a simple flight in an aircraft of ones choice, with numeral of ones choice. Also on how to gain access to and use the custom skins.
Even now having got a custom skin to fly as my plane I overlooked the fact that you set it up in options>plane and not in FMB.

It needs a step by step on getting the basics operational and what is and is not possible.

I now have a flight of four aircraft, three use the blank .jpg from CptFarrel, but three have pilots with headphones on, is it possible to rid them of this fictitious kit and get them into flying gear etc is my next battle as well as how to alter the default markings for the unit to the correct ones.
I would like to see newcomers find that the default aircraft have correct crew, gunsights (MG15 is wrong) etc, I personally dont understand the skinning of non BoB aircraft when such basics remain wrong.

Answers to the issues I have faced are scattered about between threads, I will in due course when I resolve the markings and pilot issues try to produce a summary of how to achieve a simple flight and be able to dictate markings.

You have to be determined to fly this sim to win through and stick at it, with steps that could see one operational scattered about all over the place.

My two pennuth !

BOBC

[Black034]

Post in the other game forums that will allow it.

Posted a little thread on Facepunch.com (known for Valve Source mod Garrysmod) which has a small base of simmers hidden between all the fps and adventure games discussions.

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1445015

+- 820 views ain't bad, used Bonkins new vid as a promotional..

You can tell from some of the comments people are still thinking about the release version of CloD.

Hope it helps :salute:

[Bewolf]

Just read this debate. I think as long as TF does not have the source code to make a grand statement all over the web, or some other kind of solution like a real budget for marketing, the best thing to do is just keep CloD in the talks, on Forums, other game sites and communities (War Thunder, World of Planes above all), just so that more and more people have at least "heared" of it.

In the meantime, the videos are awesome and the TF Updates do wonders in activating people, as they show the game is alive and kicking and potential fans can be part of a still growing community. I know TF has other things to do, but these updates are perfect marketing material that could go along with the Patch development, to keep threads and interests alive. When reading other forums, more often then not after another TF update, people go "ok, I need to try that". With each person won over, there is a new guy who will suggest this game to friends and collegues.

In the end, TF needs to become it's own "brand", and advertized as such, a secret tips for the folks that are "in", a bit like Chris Roberts did with Star Citizen in the beginning. Maybe TF needs it's own dedicated update Page and forums to really set them apart as Indie developers, to take them serious even outside the hardcore CloD Fanbase.

Ideal would be TF to get some of the original CloD developers on board, get the source code and make this a real enterprise. But those are just wet dreams.

[IIJG27Rich]

Post in the other game forums that will allow it. We were on a kind of campaign or a few of us were over in the BOS forum putting up all we could think of. The high quality movies great screenshots telling people over and over that this isn't the out of box 2011 game anymore, very far from it. You could see we were getting the oos and aws from quite a few folks over there. I think it was in the "Other 1c Games" section. The good movies and clips of the big missions really help. Use some clips of that WWII TS sound too. If you fly German aeroplanes get some of the Germans talking at each other it sounds like you're really at war with the English on that WWII TS sound especially when the excellent gun sounds come up LOL The same applies for the other side with English or other common wealth accents in my oppion although we Canadians are kind of generic unless you get a Newphie... "Da away buy gedm" or Quebecer

Here's an excellent movie to show folks you want to join up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzuu_dWhrO8#t=16

[danjama]

Hi all, whilst I can't really offer anything half as useful as Deth, this seemed like an appropriate thread to stick my head in and say my little bit.

I'd played il2 '46 etc for years. After a long break from CloD, I bought BoS and whilst I do enjoy it a lot, and I haven't even scratched the surface yet, I do prefer the Battle of Britain period. This naturally brought me back to CloD.

I only put 30 hours in to CloD before I gave up on it - i wanted so much to love it but it was such a frustrating experience.

After looking in to it again I found you here and installed the mods. They really are a credit to you all and have transformed CloD beyond recognition as its former form.

A big thank you for bringing the sim back from the dead and I look forward to putting many painless hours in!

[SwizCheez]

Hey I remember ^ that guy...

S` All Honorable Pilotz
I’ll chime in with a few thoughts on this subject. I’ve been messing with flight sims / games since approx. 1982 and have seen a few patterns to the life and death of many of the popular ones. This thread has already covered a few good points and I’ll try to add a few more.

Terminology and Perception
MOD: Like or not, the initial face value of the word MOD means different things to different people. It doesn’t matter if you or your current fellow players have these same perceptions. It’s the perception of others I am addressing… Those “others” being many of the same people who are not flying here and many of which you want to attract. Those who do fly regularly with you don’t have the same perceptions. (Inbred statistics)

MOD = Cheat: For many people, when the see or hear the word mod their brain computes cheat. MOD = Cheat regardless of the reality of this as it pertains to this particular game and version. This word association comes from their past experiences with other games/simulators. Not necessarily this one. One could argue CFS2 or IL2 1946 had a shorter life because of cheats and mods driving 100s-1000s of good people away. At the same time people could easily argue it wouldn’t have lasted as long without the mods… It doesn’t matter who is right. The point is that some good people that you may want to attract may have this bad perception.

MOD = PITA = Pain in the Az: For many who are not yet familiar with this game, their perception is that MOD means stay away, life is too short to deal with that crap again. Many people (whom with the proper technical help, could be fun to fly with and/or against) don’t even bother to dip their toe in the water when they see the word MOD and remember a past bad experience because they lack the computer skillz to follow the step by step directions (no matter how ez) to get things running. This is from their history of games / experience….
I’ll just give a quick example that many of you can relate to… IL-2 1946. The super mod, the ultra mod, UP, UP2, UP2.1.73.2.48.894.1347895, UP3.1_ 4.13 HSFX, HSFXABCSEFG, HSFXABCDEFG 7.123.2, TFM, The Full Monty plus a few more things, CFM, Complete Full Monty PLUS, the complete-complete fully loaded last and final CFM…plus…. And just this week the C.U.P Community Universal Patch… Next week it will be the FULL CUP aka the Complete Community Cup that still doesn’t complete the community or include everything.… Read this thread…30GB of wonderful stuff and hard work and a new door of neverending PITA (for some). See… http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,44975.0.html WOW, tonz of hard work and wonderful content. Unfortunately, those seeking simple or a working CRT=2 online environment with variety won’t touch it. I’m not knocking the work or the naming (well maybe just laughing at the naming a little)… (Steam being involved with ClOD doesn’t help matterz either)

Note...There should always be a 1 step download update process when available even if it means having a larger optional 1 step torrent file. vs.. multiple downloads...multiple installs... multiple game launches in between each etc. Less steps, less chance for error.

My point is… Some good people will not get involve with anything with the word MOD in it because it may mean to them one or more of the following… never ending hard work, cyber hell, frustration, cheatz, punkz, … etc. Perception, perception, perception. I don’t know if you are somehow bound to use the term mod vs something else. Example.. Right now when you launch the game is says MOD front and center vs. a logo that might say over the top “Cliffs Over Dover” and curved underneath “Team Fusion Edition 5”.
If all the reviews out there started reviewing “The New version of a WWII Aircraft Sim “Cliffs Over Dover - Team Fusion Edition 5” instead of for example “The newly MODDED version of the failed stuttering, incomplete Cliffs over Dover lets cash out and move on edition ”<-- which is how many reviews read. … it may catch the eye of a wider audience.

MOD and the perception of cheating… IF the modded ClOD is a secure online gaming experience.. Don’t keep it a secret. Maybe come up with a clever way to imply the security in the version name… or some other clever way. Remember…”Trust but verify” …”Cliffs Over Dover – Team Fusion Edition 5 verified”

@ Team Fusion: Modding and source code : If you still don't have it... Someone out there, that is making money on each sale, should aggressively be trying to get the code to you. Without the work of Team Fusion continued sales would not exist. If this engine is better than 46, they are knutz not to let you have the code, improve it and keep the income stream flowing.

Other terms / perceptions… some already touched on earlier…
RE: CEM = COMPLEX Engine Management… For some of you it isn’t complex ( I agree) However, if it isn’t complex why do we keep calling it COMPLEX and not “Complete Engine Management”. For some who haven’t tried the game, complex engine management soundz ….well complex …perception.

Servers: By no means should flyers of a “Full Real” server need to lower their “Full Real Settings” to bring in new players to the game. I see people have commented on servers with lower settings coming and going and not being here anymore. Many potential players would not have known lower level servers existed without reading it here or buying the game and then seeing them in the multiplayer menu … Someone without the game doesn’t know they exist without doing some research. It’s easy enough to setup other servers, you don’t need to lower your settings. However, how do you make it clearer to potential players of the game, that a variety server levels do exist? I was told from multiple people that the only populated servers were “FULL” real. Some would (incorrectly) hear that as… the only servers are “Full Real”. Which - I have heard other people say. I know people have looked at “ClOD” on Hyper lobby to see if it had ever taken off and succeeded…. They glance in at HL, see one server with nobody flying and incorrectly conclude ClOD is dead. Then tell their friends Clod is dead…. Perception.

Perceived derogatory terms: Hyperlobby / 1946 was full of “Full Real Snobz” throwing around terms and phrases to demean anyone one who played the game with settings less restrictive then they themselves chose to play. Referring to open-pit players as WonderWomen and/or arcade players…implying your joystick is bigger than theirs… is completely uncalled for. Oleg put optional check boxes for difficulty settings in for a reason… to appeal to a larger audience of gamers. Some of which might start with one set of settings and move to the settings you like. These choices in settings, online and off-line are reasons there are so many games within this one game allowing the series to appeal to many different types of players. Different hardware, different enjoyment, different personalities, different situations with none being the “wrong” way. I saw this was touched on earlier and glad to see in nipped. I bring it up as a reminder, there is no wrong/lower way and all should be welcomed… Some prospective buyers of the game are turned away at any perceived unwelcome sign or use of those mentioned terms... ATAG has done a good job at opening doors, with a good forum and startup guide…

Example of game versatility/level… I played both “closed pit” and “open pit” in 1946 using a different callsign for each. I had/have a unique situation with the ability to fly while I work. Whether I chose open or closed pit was related to how much time I had between tasks and how much attention/multitasking my work required. I flew open pit for hours daily with no sound on in the game, while talking on a headset solving tech support issues for real world clients... often remote controlling their computer on a computer to my right, while flying the computer on my left. Open pit allowed for me to do this as I didn’t have to pay nearly as close attention. I also enjoy closed pit with very short limited icons while working. Just the distance at 0.25 to remind me at the last second Red vs Blue confirmation also to try to remind what color I was flying for at that last moment. Without distractions "full real" was a great option, but still a game..

Speaking of work… I have some on weekends… so I will leave at that for now.
Just some food for thought… If even just one point from above helps bring in 10 players, and they have 10 friends and they have…

S`
SwizCheez.

Again… great forum ATAG and great work Team Fusion. I have read nearly your entire forum, some twice, before even buying the game. I not only enjoy the gaming and history aspects, I enjoy the tech side of what is being done. Even though Redhawk kept harassing me to try the game, one of the simple reasons I finally did so, was just to see if I could help solve the stutter issues that others had posted. I’m glad I tried it... Clod even on medium settings does make 1946 look old.

[NNFFL=Clovis=]

With the influx of new players to this sim and forum due to the new 4.00 Patch it might be a good idea to bump this thread and see if any new ideas from the new players get bounced around...

================================================

Recently a campaign evolved to try to bring more folks to this sim over the past few months.....Many of us here had tried different WWII Flight sims that didn't meet up to the same standards as CLOD which got us wondering why there weren't more folks flying this ground breaking sim...In this thread we discussed many reasons and many solutions to this problem....We achieved some moderate success....However we can always still benefit from fresh ideas from new players..even if it is simply to tell us how you came by CLOD, this forum and server...

If you are new and wanted to contribute something to this community then please read some of the issues we uncovered in this thread and think on how we can get even more folks flying CLOD....Remember any discussion here is positive

Thanks for your time, in advance

...lew...


I'll probably won't come with new ideas but reading this I tought I'll create an account and reply anyway.
But before suggesting anything, I'll explain a few things, as without the context, my contribution would be pointless.

I'm part of a French squad (NNFFL) which was formed at the very beginning of il2 sturmovik.
We were all very disappointed when Clodo came out. I myself took a break of two years shortly after as I did not enjoy flying IL2 1946 anymore and for personal reasons.
The release of il2 battle of stalingrad made me want to fly again. Despite the qualities of this software, the "sim aspect" is a bit lacking. A friend convinced me to try Clodo again with the mods of the TF. Spectacular! In the past three month a core of 6 NNFFL pilots are regularly flying on CLODO.

I can say today that CLODO has probably a future for our squad, but in the current state, the whole squad will not adhere to it. Simply because, our squad is actually organised around three individuals groups: bombers, fighter bombers and fighters. We fly exclusively on the "red" side (no axis). And there is a lack of relevant fighter-bomber and bomber for the red side. Overall I can say that we are not that attracted but a huge multitude of flyable planes, as we all like to learn and master one or two types of planes, and look more forward immersive missions and campaigns to all fly together. But a relevant bomber, and fighter bomber would DEFINITELY help bringing over some pilots from my squad.

We are obviously respectful of the incredible work accomplished so far by the TF, and by ATAG when it comes to the server and the missions. We also are aware of the extreme complexity and work load that the introduction of new planes require. However, the potential release of the Wellington and Beaufighter in a next patch would significantly help attracting more NNFFL pilots to this game.

Other than that:
- simplicity of mod installation would probably help
- a dedicated website or section to mods in general where people from various horizons (not only TF, if any) could present their work or ideas to keep the hungry crowd fed
- a way to bring talented modders from the first IL2 to actually take a look at CLODO.
- find a way to attract some players from arcade WOP and others games to CLODO. I myself started with CFS 1, then il2 without complex options, then il2 full realism. The success of WOP represents actually an opportunity to bring new players to the CLODO.
- more regular mod release, even "simple" ones, to maintain the interest by regular new additions to the game. A year without any release saw some players leaving the game. (not blaming anyone here, just facts)
- keep the videos coming!:thumbsup:
- convince popular websites to re-do a review of the game for what it has to offer now (regular news sur http://www.checksix-fr.com/ for example)
- get regular "events" on ATAG server

I'm going to contact the administrator of check-six, see if regular news from the TF can be advertised as news on the main page.

[EAF51_Jimmi]

Hi Clovis i remember your group from the old il2 days
happy to have you on board!

Nice points you highlighted!

[ATAG_Lewis]

Thanks for taking the time to input here Clovis....Very glad to hear you and a few of your squad mates are enjoying CLOD too...

Great post Clovis...~S~

[NNFFL=Clovis=]

http://www.checksix-fr.com/

I'll try to get news put on first page like this one for every TF update.

[69th_Damon]

Am a relatively new player with 4000+ of fixed wing hours. Like the technical aircraft realism, and most times there is someone willing to help if asked. Have a 28" screen, TrackIR, Logitech 3D pro, and a $150 video card.

2 issues, getting new players, and keeping those that start.

New. Getting the mods up and running drove me near crazy. If you can at least make them .zip. Had to get help, almost quit, and I am stubborn.

Keeping.
First frustration was blowing engines, need better guidelines up front.

Current frustrations.
Not being able to see/identify other aircraft. Often tell from teamspeak that I am in the middle of many, but can not see a single other player. Don't know that there is anything other than better equipment that will help, but am not sure that I am set up as well a can be.
I keep getting jumped by 2 or 3 players working together that have suffered hundreds of deaths developing their skills (never happen in real life), with high end equipment, and which I have no chance against.
Finding opponents that do not fit the above profile. Don't mind loosing, but need to have some chance of surviving more than the first 10 sec.
I am doing my best to just stay on the edge of things but still find opponents, with little luck.

Suggestions
Maybe an automatic email/PM to new members with a links to needed reference material. Aircraft controls, screen settings for maximum visibility, TrackIR tutorial, etc. Sorting through the web site for information is slow.
A more formal flight school program, an invitation could be part of the first email/PM above. I have looked several times and don't know how to sign up, except for the bomber class (waiting for the July schedule).
An area or time for beginners??????

I know that this is mostly problems without solutions. All in all the only game I play.

[Continu0]

New. Getting the mods up and running drove me near crazy. If you can at least make them .jpg. Had to get help, almost quit, and I am stubborn.

aehm... what...?:D You want them as a picture???

Keeping.
First frustration was blowing engines, need better guidelines up front.

It is all here:
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058&p=52711


Current frustrations.
Not being able to see/identify other aircraft. Often tell from teamspeak that I am in the middle of many, but can not see a single other player. Don't know that there is anything other than better equipment that will help, but am not sure that I am set up as well a can be.
I keep getting jumped by 2 or 3 players working together that have suffered hundreds of deaths developing their skills (never happen in real life), with high end equipment, and which I have no chance against.
Finding opponents that do not fit the above profile. Don't mind loosing, but need to have some chance of surviving more than the first 10 sec.
I am doing my best to just stay on the edge of things but still find opponents, with little luck.

This a thing I understand very well. As a "Newbie", one needs a flight teacher gives him real lessons. Just jumping on TS and try to fly where the others say does not really help.

You need to fly with someone in close formation, and just with one person for a couple of hours. To observe, to be observed, to understand how the game works. I am sorry for you if you didn`t have any teacher so far. I recommend asking someone for a 1:1 lesson. I do hardly have the time to fly atm, but I hope you find someone.

Suggestions
Maybe an automatic email/PM to new members with a links to needed reference material. Aircraft controls, screen settings for maximum visibility, TrackIR tutorial, etc. Sorting through the web site for information is slow.
A more formal flight school program, an invitation could be part of the first email/PM above. I have looked several times and don't know how to sign up, except for the bomber class (waiting for the July schedule).
An area or time for beginners??????

I am a little surprised with some points. There is the beginners thread of Lewis that in my opinion is fantastic:
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058&p=52711

I can hardly find anything that is missing in this thread...

I know that this is mostly problems without solutions. All in all the only game I play.

^
Something I am wondering about: Did you come across the beginners thread? If yes, could you maybe tell us what is missing in it?

[ATAG_Lewis]

Thanks for your input Bad_bascom....We appreciate any info on this side of things..It all helps to find out what the issues are for new players...how to get them to find us and how to keep them flying CLOD...

I fully understand the problem with not seeing contacts and I fear you are right....I found that I could only see contacts better if I had a bigger monitor and that was it....I went to a friends to fly and took my whole rig with me....When I plugged it into his BIG TV and used it as a monitor I found that I could see a lot more...We did a test whereby we flew parallel to each other and then flew apart at a 10 degree angle or so...He disappeared in my monitor about 20 seconds before I disappeared in his showing that with only a larger monitor the whole competitive balance shifted in his favour....It meant that he could react to me and get into and attacking position and also into a smaller profile to be visible way before I knew he even existed...

My advice is if you have a big TV with a PC input then test your PC on it to see if it makes a difference....Give it a try and let us know

Thanks again for your input...

...Lew...

[ATAG_((dB))]

Current frustrations.
Not being able to see/identify other aircraft. Often tell from teamspeak that I am in the middle of many, but can not see a single other player. Don't know that there is anything other than better equipment that will help, but am not sure that I am set up as well a can be.
I keep getting jumped by 2 or 3 players working together that have suffered hundreds of deaths developing their skills (never happen in real life), with high end equipment, and which I have no chance against.
Finding opponents that do not fit the above profile. Don't mind loosing, but need to have some chance of surviving more than the first 10 sec.
I am doing my best to just stay on the edge of things but still find opponents, with little luck.


Now that TAB 7 1 as been remove that will make in worst for the new guys unfortunately. Have you calibrate your colors, brightness and gamma? Do it via the calibrate color on the control panel of your PC. Control Panel\Appearance and Personalization\Display

DUI also made something very good to help spotting contact here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13915&highlight=spotting+contact

All that with practice you will be better and better at spotting Good luck

:salute:

[69th_SunDog]

Am a relatively new player with 4000+ of fixed wing hours. Like the technical aircraft realism, and most times there is someone willing to help if asked. Have a 28" screen, TrackIR, Logitech 3D pro, and a $150 video card.

2 issues, getting new players, and keeping those that start.

New. Getting the mods up and running drove me near crazy. If you can at least make them .jpg. Had to get help, almost quit, and I am stubborn.

Keeping.
First frustration was blowing engines, need better guidelines up front.

Current frustrations.
Not being able to see/identify other aircraft. Often tell from teamspeak that I am in the middle of many, but can not see a single other player. Don't know that there is anything other than better equipment that will help, but am not sure that I am set up as well a can be.
I keep getting jumped by 2 or 3 players working together that have suffered hundreds of deaths developing their skills (never happen in real life), with high end equipment, and which I have no chance against.
Finding opponents that do not fit the above profile. Don't mind loosing, but need to have some chance of surviving more than the first 10 sec.
I am doing my best to just stay on the edge of things but still find opponents, with little luck.

Suggestions
Maybe an automatic email/PM to new members with a links to needed reference material. Aircraft controls, screen settings for maximum visibility, TrackIR tutorial, etc. Sorting through the web site for information is slow.
A more formal flight school program, an invitation could be part of the first email/PM above. I have looked several times and don't know how to sign up, except for the bomber class (waiting for the July schedule).
An area or time for beginners??????

I know that this is mostly problems without solutions. All in all the only game I play.


Turn off Antialiasing and check the thread that DB linked. Tune your monitor until you can see at least 12-14 contacts in the contact spotting mission.

[Mr_Deth]

Current frustrations.
Not being able to see/identify other aircraft.

Yup, there's a steep learning curve with this game but there's tons of great info and nice people here to help with its unparalleled realism. Check out the downloadable guide that I put together while learning the game as it has a lot of the stuff you're looking for including links to help see/identify aircraft and much more...

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14710

Anyway, hope this helps, good luck and have fun. o7

[hAirypAulsAck]

THE NUMBER ONE EYE ATTENTION GRABBER ON THE IL-2 CLoD STEAM PAGE SHOULD BE THE NEW INCLUSION OF AN ALL INCLUSIVE INSTALLER. To me, it is nothing more than a 21st century instant gratification expecting lazy donkey that doesn't want to read more than a short paragraph and would rather watch someone explain it in a video at a nice 6th grade pace (so that one doesn't get to flabbergasted), which had created the number one problem which was the the multi-part download and install process. Even with it being $5.00 ([I]on sale? can't remember) and telling them that I would give them the direct download links or the torrent, they still thought it would be a hastle. This is somewhat understandable if said person had experienced the not so perfect and always updating community mod content patches from IL-2: 1946, as it would lead them to assume that this may be just as difficult. Also there is a stigma that IL-2 CLoD was shit upon release and there is nothing that a community team of people who work on this simulator as a hobby can do to make it any better, which is complete bull-dodo.. I think identifying to the steam users that it is like all other steam games as in being that of the '1-click download and wait then install' nature, as well as including some professional reviewers that can comment of the work the team has done as well as community responses and maybe something like a change log (just to show the staggering amount of pages it has accumulated) or simple a number or counter as to how many errors (and improvements!) that the team has made to rid this incorrect stigma from people's perceptions. One of my selling points is that this is the only simulator where you can have a truly historically accurate battle of Britain online.

Keep up the great work and throw out some more TF5 eye-candy! Need help combating the non-believes!!!
--skratch

[CapaUno]

The original thread on this subject got derailed and then closed after I felt there was some real progression towards attracting more players to this sim, hence this re-thread

Please don't use this thread for anything other than topic discussion..

So, Please copy and paste your posts from the original thread here and hopefully we can start again with some healthy objective discussion.

================================================== ===========

Its a Simple question....But I haven't seen anyone ask it yet

If you are reading this then you are probably one of the folks who plays COD on a regular basis and already know just how good it is...Through ATAGS we now have a dedicated crew called Team Fusion who are taking this abandoned sim and doing something constructive with it (working wonders actually) because its a quality WWII sim with a massive potential...but the fact is that still not many people play it....If you go on to Hyperlobby and look at the original IL-2 you will still see 100+ playing the owld sim on any given night and thats dying sim....but thats not the case with COD....If it were a bad game/sim then I could understand it and there be no need for a post...but we all know thats not the case

I thought I might start a discussion at least about this....I mean if we can get more folks flying COD then we WILL create longevity with the sim we love...That was proved with the original and even though it was a niche market the numbers of faithfull flyers didn't dwindle for many years....Only a couple of years ago did the numbers drop quickly and then over a few months....to the faithfull that are still enjoying it..and who still outnumber COD players

I flew the original IL-2 for many years on servers in Hyperlobby at first like 'Flying Circus', 'Big Top' and later 'Skies of Fire' but not many of those thousands of players (and there were thousands) have migrated to this follow on sim...and that stumps me...If we have that amount of players flying COD then this sim will be at the top of the online WWII sims in terms of numbers for many years to come just as the original was...We would have guaranteed longevity

So what can we do to attract more folks?

How can we get those faithfull flyers to fly COD?

Am I right in assuming we want more flyers?....That has to be a given, surely?

I just thought I would throw this out there to you clever WWII aircraft enthusiasts who might enlighten me as to how or why...and if and but

Thank ~S~

Lew


Hi there ;o)

I think there would probably be at least twice as many players if it was a bit more straight forward setting the game up....there have been so many gitches to overcome I have seen in blogs while searching for fixes that one potential flyer couldn't get it working for 6 weeks....I know this may have happened at an early MOD stage but I am sure some people basically give up as they want to get on with flying....and that is a mission in itself :D

....I really wanted to get it working and oh endeavour.....CloD crashed before christmas and I just played war thunder (I know it's a glorified etch-a-sketch....mouse users et al...??? But it worked..) for a few months til I had the time and inclination to have a another go.....I think the combination of different PC architecture, windows 8+ and the way the SIM has had to be assembled is as much a problem as attracting new players. I think that if TF manage to iron out the code and produce the finished product then the number of players will increase through ease of installation....hopefully. I say hopefully but I'm sure this will be the case.

I think the way windows renumbers the USB ports can be an issue especially with having controllers, webcams, headphones and the headtrack with just the game itself being difficult sometimes it can be a mare and it's a lot of time to fix...I think if peeps provide a comprehensive list of issues that have had to be overcome so that TF have this to ponder...not that they havn't already and I know they have a bug channel....funnily I registered and it wouldn't let me log in lololololol....anyway if the SIM is optimised and peeps can have it running as quickly as then I think this will increase the numbers quite a bit.....maybe suprisingly so.


Also I came across a previous ATAG blog suggesting that peeps go to amazon and I suppose any other game outlets and leave 5 stars and a good review...it does actually work better now the TF patches are through steam though I've had a few crashes....I have the original backed up so if it had a moment I just copy and paste from scratch though still have to set it up a bit etc. it's the quickest way atm....so if they sell a few more that would help fund the work.....it is an eclectic bunsh of enthusiasts and I suppose we all have to do our bit to support it so that it will be ongoing and improving into the future.

Maybe have a smaller training map like say the battle of the isle of wight where everyone and the newbies can get airborne quickly and have lots of targets around, we could bomb southend of the map lol ;o)

I hope that this is heipful, constructive and makes sense....this is what came to mind from my experience of getting Clod all set up, well mostly set up and personally I thing CloD is awesome and I want to play it forever...even though I get shot down mostly!


Happy flying!

Capa :salute:

[ATAG_Lewis]

Thanks for the input fellas...It makes a lot of sense what you have said...

We lost a lot of the original players of IL2 1946 because the game had a lot of bugs and glitches...Unfortunately instead of backing up the dev team with input and help to get the game working better many of the community put a lot of negative input into forums and on reviews and that ultimately lead to the abandonment by the devs which frustrated those of us that could see the potential...Now we are entering a new era...and the future looks bright for CLOD...

[QB.Creep]

Just speaking for myself here since I am very new and don't have a lot of history with flight sims although I have always been in love with WWII aviation... I came to find this game after becoming disenfranchised with Star Citizen (namely interactive mode aka pixel-perfect aiming with a mouse rather than "flying"). I know for a fact there are many more like me - people that have been complaining about the "arcade" nature of combat in Star Citizen since 2013. I reneged on my Kickstarter pledge and have lost the ability to post on their forums, but it might be worth creating a backer account on RSI forums to try and attract people like myself to give this game a try.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[ATAG_Highseas]

Just speaking for myself here since I am very new and don't have a lot of history with flight sims although I have always been in love with WWII aviation... I came to find this game after becoming disenfranchised with Star Citizen (namely interactive mode aka pixel-perfect aiming with a mouse rather than "flying"). I know for a fact there are many more like me - people that have been complaining about the "arcade" nature of combat in Star Citizen since 2013. I reneged on my Kickstarter pledge and have lost the ability to post on their forums, but it might be worth creating a backer account on RSI forums to try and attract people like myself to give this game a try.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

I recon you are onto something here.

But it has to be done in a "hey look at this stuff" kind of a way.

Rather than any kind of sim bashing way. (not suggesting for a second that is where you were comming from !!)


Not tried SC. Be very interested in your thoughts genearlly on that. (PM me .. and there sim bashing is fine !)

played Elite for a while... still do on occasion, but recreationally... as a space tourist !


All these caveats aside...

Pitching a flight sim to space simmers is a great idea.

Elite is why i got a stick.

Cliffs is why i dont play anything else !!

[thecaptain1701]

I think a fully developed dynamic campaign for single player would be a huge draw for new players. The one already in place is a nice start, but it could be so much more. Does anyone know if such an enhancement is in the works for the 4.5 or 5.0 updates?

[DOWNEAST]

I think it's more the PC than the controls (as much as cost goes) and as Phil and Snapper stated, the type person does tend to be a simmer versus a "gamer". CLoD was actually my first foray into sim/gaming (at an advanced age and very late to the party) and my interest came from my holding a private pilot cert for many years and secondly blundering into some of the great video's the community has posted on YouTube/Vimeo. That wasn't all that long and and since then I have upgraded my PC to decent specs and have used just about every control system know to man to get shot down :).

So yes,I think that we/need to be targeting specific people and I like the idea of noob training day or something like. I have met some great people and joined a squad/staffel and have/am participating in a campaign with people from all over the world. I enjoy the casual flying and also the squad training with my Mates for the campaigns. I may have never done that had I not been encouraged to get on teamspeak and fly online. :thumbsup:

I'm also a race simmer with all the requisite wheels and pedals and race in a league but that's another story. I only mention it because I think that that community might also contain potential flyers? I'll give that a go.

I can identify with you totally, this Sim is my first and only foray as well. I got into CloD for exactly the same reason (at an advanced age), because of it's flight realism, operation complexity and place in history. More exposure to aviation history buffs and those with previous pilot training would be useful. A virtual pilot's article like Henry's recent one in STERN ("One Out of 100 Nerds Over The English Channel") in the likes of "Aviation History" magazine would be a good recruiting tool.
http://mobil.stern.de/digital/games/flightsimulation-il2-cliffs-of-dover-battle-of-britain-7204358.html

[Ekko]

A virtual pilot's article like Henry's recent one in STERN ("One Out of 100 Nerds Over The English Channel") in the likes of "Aviation History" magazine would be a good recruiting tool.
http://mobil.stern.de/digital/games/...n-7204358.html



It got my heartbeat to approach the red field while I read this little but well-torn story:) ..

It will be sent to DK4, a small TV station that recommends PC games, along with the news of Clod will soon:)(My best guess is August 25 at 1800 hours) arrive in Africa.
To lure Danish pilots to CloD, it still make´s my piss boil when thinking of the numbers of Danish CloD fan´s

Have Good day out there. Thank You TFS:thumbsup:

[Craterman]

I think a fully developed dynamic campaign for single player would be a huge draw for new players. The one already in place is a nice start, but it could be so much more. Does anyone know if such an enhancement is in the works for the 4.5 or 5.0 updates?

I agree. But the AI is going to need an overhaul first because the 'I' stands for idiots ATM. A new player going online is like jumping into a blender and doesn't encourage them any.

[Mysticpuma]

Ai and Radio Commands are set for a complete overhaul for v5.00

Cheers, MP

[dhyran]

Ai and Radio Commands are set for a complete overhaul for v5.00

Cheers, MP

well, in 2023 than?

ATAG got 300 ppl on the forums, 24 flying! Ask why? Just stop teasing, release 4.5 and it will be switched

[BOO]

ATAG got 300 ppl on the forums, 24 flying! Ask why?

is Bakeoff on TV?

Strictly??

[Craterman]

[QUOTE=Mysticpuma;278957]Ai and Radio Commands are set for a complete overhaul for v5.00

Excellent! Certainly worth supporting Team Fusion for that. Improved AI would be good for offline and online play. Just dreaming, but imagine if some day that you could have a wing man AI option.

[=AN=Lobo]

Ai and Radio Commands are set for a complete overhaul for v5.00

Cheers, MP

We don't need an "overhaul", we need working AI.

Sometimes I think 1C believe it's "OK" to release an unfinished product and just years after no work delegate to a third part all the work for a future expansion of a deeply bugged and unfinished software.

But I don't know how the bussiness agreement between TFS and 1C work. If someone can tell me, I will know if I need to bother TFS or 1C directly, because someone need first to solve all unfinished/bugged features in Cliffs of Dover, and be paid for this by Cliffs of Dover owner. If TFS are being paid for Cliffs of Dover maintenance, please no more "for 5.0 we planning" regards bugs we have now. Because 1C will keep selling Cliffs of Dover, and we consumers don't have minimum support from this company.

Thanks!

[ATAG_Snapper]

We don't need an "overhaul", we need working AI.

Sometimes I think 1C believe it's "OK" to release an unfinished product and just years after no work delegate to a third part all the work for a future expansion of a deeply bugged and unfinished software.

But I don't know how the bussiness agreement between TFS and 1C work. If someone can tell me, I will know if I need to bother TFS or 1C directly, because someone need first to solve all unfinished/bugged features in Cliffs of Dover, and be paid for this by Cliffs of Dover owner. If TFS are being paid for Cliffs of Dover maintenance, please no more "for 5.0 we planning" regards bugs we have now. Because 1C will keep selling Cliffs of Dover, and we consumers don't have minimum support of this company.

Thanks!

Please do not "bother TFS or 1C directly". Let TFS do their job without interference. If you are so unhappy with the progress done by the unpaid, volunteer members of Team Fusion Simulations that you need to complain on virtually every post, perhaps you would be happier on another forum. The rest of us also look forward to the upcoming updates, but we choose to encourage TFS' efforts, not deride them.

In case I'm being too subtle above, I'll spell it out for you: your negative and derogatory posts directed at TFS' efforts have royally pissed me off in my job as an ATAG Administrator of this forum. Continue with your negative posts and I will personally show you the door.

Sincerely,

Snapper :salute:

[=AN=Lobo]

Please do not "bother TFS or 1C directly". Let TFS do their job without interference. If you are so unhappy with the progress done by the unpaid, volunteer members of Team Fusion Simulations that you need to complain on virtually every post, perhaps you would be happier on another forum. The rest of us also look forward to the upcoming updates, but we choose to encourage TFS' efforts, not deride them.

In case I'm being too subtle above, I'll spell it out for you: your negative and derogatory posts directed at TFS' efforts have royally pissed me off in my job as an ATAG Administrator of this forum. Continue with your negative posts and I will personally show you the door.

Sincerely,

Snapper :salute:

I never complained about TF unpaid, volunteer efforts. But I'm always pissed off 1c lack of support for Cliffs of Dover and the state it was released. Now TFS have a bussiness agreement with 1c. It's not unpaid or volunteer anymore, and I just want to know if we need to ask about support directly with TFS or 1c, as a consumer.

I don't make any "negative and derogatory post", I always point BUGS and do suggestion. But it's ok, I know TFS came a big part from ATAG, and I noticed too that any critics goes personal. I enjoy the progress made so far, but if someone likes Cliffs of Dover, or want to make profit os its sales, and believe the problemsare my posts, I recomend a look at the sim market today. To keep good sales of Cliffs of Dover and a future expansion, consumers need constant updates with bugs fixed and features "half made" complete.

I'm not the enemy. I already said that I want that TFS have full pockets. But I'm not blind and deaf, people are looking to other sims, what I beleieve it's sad, because Cliff of Dover have content and potetntial to be the greatest WWII sim ever, it's never fulfill it's potential.

I will not post here anymore, just read. Hope someday Cliffs of Dover will have minimum decent support of it's publisher. Bye!

[ATAG_Snapper]

I never complained about TF unpaid, volunteer efforts. But I'm always pissed off 1c lack of support for Cliffs of Dover and the state it was released. Now TFS have a bussiness agreement with 1c. It's not unpaid or volunteer anymore, and I just want to know if we need to ask about support directly with TFS or 1c, as a consumer.

I don't make any "negative and derogatory post", I always point BUGS and do suggestion. But it's ok, I know TFS came a big part from ATAG, and I noticed too that any critics goes personal. I enjoy the progress made so far, but if someone likes Cliffs of Dover, or want to make profit os its sales, and believe the problemsare my posts, I recomend a look at the sim market today. To keep good sales of Cliffs of Dover and a future expansion, consumers need constant updates with bugs fixed and features "half made" complete.

I'm not the enemy. I already said that I want that TFS have full pockets. But I'm not blind and deaf, people are looking to other sims, what I beleieve it's sad, because Cliff of Dover have content and potetntial to be the greatest WWII sim ever, it's never fulfill it's potential.

I will not post here anymore, just read. Hope someday Cliffs of Dover will have minimum decent support of it's publisher. Bye!

Bye.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Bye.

Succinct !

[Akula93]

Topic name is priceless

[ATAG_Snapper]

This thread is over four years old and has seen a lot of constructive input. Thanks to all for contributing.

:salute: