Friday Update 12th July - Clouds

[TheVino3]

:)

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves:

337033713372337333743375337633773378

As you may be able to see, cloud visibility distance has been increased by 3x. Performance is identical, so the slowdowns with clouds around still occur at this stage, but this has not worsened the slowdowns.

Cheers!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Fantastic!

[Continu0]

Genius, oh wow!

[Manoxerox]

They finally look like clouds!! Mick Jagger would sing: Hey, hey, you, you get off of my cloud:hypnotized:

[DUI]

Comparing the TF Clouds with the ones outside of my windows... Prefering the TF Clouds that just look amazing!

[Kling]

Stunning photos!!!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Freaking AWESOME!!!! :stunned:

[Mattias]

They finally look like clouds!! Mick Jagger would sing: Hey, hey, you, you get off of my cloud:hypnotized:

roflmao

[airmalik]

That first shot is stunning!

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Very Nice Matthias, I was going to ask about GPU strain, but it seems you're comfortable with how performance is, or should I say is not affected.

[Wulf]

:)

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves:

337033713372337333743375337633773378

As you may be able to see, cloud visibility distance has been increased by 3x. Performance is identical, so the slowdowns with clouds around still occur at this stage, but this has not worsened the slowdowns.

Cheers!


They look great, really impressive. Are ships and ground objects still going to be visible through those clouds or has that issue been corrected?

[Kling]

Just looked at the photos again and the clouds are indeed STUNNING!!
May I ask, is the issue with seeing targets and planes through clouds solved?

Good times ahead!
Cheers!! :)

EDIT: You beat me to it Wulf ;)

[Macro]

Tf at it again :) well done guys looks great

[Mattias]

Very Nice Matthias, I was going to ask about GPU strain, but it seems you're comfortable with how performance is, or should I say is not affected.

Well, I cannot take credit for this one as it's very much a team effort. No names mentioned but a certain thread creator and a returned code god are the real heroes behind this :)

Yes, so far we have not seen any increased GPU strain :thumbsup:

Cheers/m

[E.F.HARTMANN]

Whoa really impressive.
Excellent work TF, great art.
Continued to make us dream.

[SoW Reddog]

Looking good. I've suffered the past couple of days with clouds suddenly loading at very close range which I'd not noticed before so it's nice to know that this in the pipeline.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

Excellent work! :thumbsup:

[ATAG_JTDawg]

Agree , looking good :thumbsup: keep up the good work!!

[Royraiden]

Looking good.Does this mean the see targets through clouds thing is being checked out? Anyways, good job again.

[Sandy1942]

That's good! Nice clouds! :salute:

[ATAG_Colander]

The targets through clouds has not been addressed (yet).

[Royraiden]

The targets through clouds has not been addressed (yet).

Thank you.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Looking great guy!
I can not adequately express the admiration and gratitude I have for all the members of Team Fusion. Without your efforts Cliffs of dover would be quietly fading away. Because of your time and effort CoD still has a future.

Thank you!

[ChiefRedCloud]

Great work .... thanks ...:thumbsup:

[Gotz]

- Это можно скачать и установить? Или это как новость?

[ATAG_Colander]

- Это можно скачать и установить? Или это как новость?

новость

[Oersted]

Superb-looking clouds for sure! - Great effort!

Are they in any way linked to the "complex weather" supposedly hiding somewhere in the code, or are they simply more of the clouds that we already have?

I was thinking that a "quick fix" to the present situation (where we only have blue sky and summer weather) would be to swap the present blue-sky-with-a-few-cirrus-clouds layer with a grey-overcast layer. That and a diminished-strength sun + grey-coloured water textures would give a convincing illusion of a grey overcast. Granted, it would be at a great heigth, but for most missions that wouldn't matter. Just as a quick fix...

[Sandy1942]

I am sorry, I at first didn't note. Why so dark trees? And where foam on waves got to?

[Chivas]

Looking great guy!
I can not adequately express the admiration and gratitude I have for all the members of Team Fusion. Without your efforts Cliffs of dover would be quietly fading away. Because of your time and effort CoD still has a future.

Thank you!

A huge plus one.

[TWC_SLAG]

Just the way cumulus clouds should look. Really good work.

Thanks,

Binky9

[Jaws]

That's really impressive! They look stuning.

Thank you!

[philip.ed]

Awesome work chaps!

Just one minor point; I still think some of the larger clouds are too cotton-ball in shape. They should have flatter bottoms and maybe less noticeable texture. I know Dutch will find a lot of humour in what I just wrote aha.

Other than that, fantastic work! That terrain is looking awesome as well.

[Geier]

I am sorry, I at first didn't note. Why so dark trees? And where foam on waves got to?

Agree. The picture is like a cartoon. Hdr is not what BoB really needs now. Look at the grass near Spit - it's terrible - like after a somekind acid rain

[Oersted]

Agree. The picture is like a cartoon. Hdr is not what BoB really needs now. Look at the grass near Spit - it's terrible - like after a somekind acid rain

Geier, don't be so obnoxious. It is work in progress and TF is composed of volunteers working for free. At least express yourself respectfully.

[LcSummers]

WOW, thats outstanding. Nice pix. Yeah the first screenshot si amazing. Thanks for this update:thumbsup:

[ATAG_Colander]

Funny how one says "look at the clouds" and some look at the floor instead :)

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Agree. The picture is like a cartoon. Hdr is not what BoB really needs now. Look at the grass near Spit - it's terrible - like after a somekind acid rain

Making judgements about other terrain when the subject pointed to by the OP is clearly clouds indicates a lack of respect or understanding.

But just to show you that other elements are not being ignored, SPECIFICALLY grass, here is a shot of WIP courtesy one of our terrific terrain mods, Hawkzz:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3329&d=1373455838

[Gotz]

People, open your eyes! It is not nice! You'll look like a ROF and its cartoon!
I understand that volunteers and TF for free, I am very grateful, but then go too!

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

People, open your eyes! It is not nice! You'll look like a ROF and its cartoon!
I understand that volunteers and TF for free, I am very grateful, but then go too!

Some people, you invite them to the party, and they bring strange gifts... :throwup:

[ATAG_Snapper]

I believe that a couple of comments/opinions here were translated from another language and may appear harsher than the posters actually intended. At least, I hope that is the case. I ask everyone to view those comments in that light and respond accordingly.

Thanks,

Snapper

[ATAG_Colander]

I believe that a couple of comments/opinions here were translated from another language and may appear harsher than the posters actually intended. At least, I hope that is the case. I ask everyone to view those comments in that light and respond accordingly.


Agree, we have to remember not everyone is fluid in english.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Something to remember here guys:

All these pictures of clouds aren't necessarily to show how they look. It's the fact that you can finally see them at distance. This is a great break through in the sim. As the clouds, have essentially only been rendered around a small portion of where your plane is flying and never off in the distance.

We now finally have them in the distance. So just remember, that's the main part here, not necessarily the look of things.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

Quite right Bliss, The fact that they are there and not doing that instant popcorn appearing is huge.

[Sandy1942]

Some people, you invite them to the party, and they bring strange gifts... :throwup:

Guys, please don't take offense. Distant clouds are magnificent. But the dark landscape too drew attention. Therefore there were these questions.
Certainly, it is necessary to see all this in dynamics of game - then it will be clear. We wait a patch.

P.S. My colleagues probably wrote a little sharply.

[RedBeard]

Those images were bigger resolutions originally i assume? Because those are really sharp screenshots, or i just got some settings all wrong:) I've got 1680x1050.

gr,

Red

[philip.ed]

Making judgements about other terrain when the subject pointed to by the OP is clearly clouds indicates a lack of respect or understanding.

But just to show you that other elements are not being ignored, SPECIFICALLY grass, here is a shot of WIP courtesy one of our terrific terrain mods, Hawkzz:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3329&d=1373455838


Picture isn't showing mate (unless I am blind which is not out of the question).

[ATAG_Colander]

Picture isn't showing mate (unless I am blind which is not out of the question).

3388

How about now?

[Gotz]

I believe that a couple of comments/opinions here were translated from another language and may appear harsher than the posters actually intended. At least, I hope that is the case. I ask everyone to view those comments in that light and respond accordingly.

Thanks,

Snapper

do not! I did not want to offend or write rude. Sorry if Google messed up the message.
I would like to pay attention to those things that do not need to touch!
There is a proverb - "A good horse furrow not spoil!"

[DUI]

In the last few days I more and more get the impression that there is a strong cultural difference in rating comments. I did not see any disrespectful comments at all, just some openly expressed opinions. It is kind of weird if there is just the option to cheer on every change (like I always do) or to say nothing at all.

Personally, I also regard the landscape and especially the wing on the screenshots as too cartoon-like. I also regard the trees as to dark. Looking at the shadow of the trees on the screenshot it seems to be a sunny day but the trees are nearly black. Without wanting to be disrespectful in any way...

As I already wrote the clouds look great!

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

In the last few days I more and more get the impression that there is a strong cultural difference in rating comments. I did not see any disrespectful comments at all, just some openly expressed opinions. It is kind of weird if there is just the option to cheer on every change (like I always do) or to say nothing at all.
Personally, I also regard the landscape and especially the wing on the screenshots as too cartoon-like. I also regard the trees as to dark. Looking at the shadow of the trees on the screenshot it seems to be a sunny day but the trees are nearly black. Without wanting to be disrespectful in any way...


Not to worry DUI, I'm sure it was a translation issue. However, the point still stands that the post is about the clouds, and not the ground textures shown in the first set of screenies.

Moving on to the latest screenshot with the trees in that small valley. I think the trees are OK. The reason trees normally look lighter in sunshine is because the leaves are (1) slightly transparent - the sun shines through their fibres, and (2) their surfaces are reflective. To model those qualities would take tonnes of processing power, especially with landscapes of this size in a flight sim. The problem with using a lighter colour palette for the leaves/ trees means that they would then look too bright in the early morning/ evening. I think the colours chosen are a compromise. And not a bad one. But, that's just my opinion ;) meow.

[priller26]

I think it all looks very nice. One big question, is there any ETA on this? Thank you

[Wulf]

In the last few days I more and more get the impression that there is a strong cultural difference in rating comments. I did not see any disrespectful comments at all, just some openly expressed opinions. It is kind of weird if there is just the option to cheer on every change (like I always do) or to say nothing at all.

Personally, I also regard the landscape and especially the wing on the screenshots as too cartoon-like. I also regard the trees as to dark. Looking at the shadow of the trees on the screenshot it seems to be a sunny day but the trees are nearly black. Without wanting to be disrespectful in any way...

As I already wrote the clouds look great!


Yeah agreed, this is getting a little crazy IMO. This is a forum after all. People are going to have a range of views; well, I'd like to think so anyway. An individual should be able to express a contrary opinion without having other people jumping down his or her throat. Let's not turn this place into some kind of Stasi state for Christ's sake.

[Chivas]

Hopefully its just a language issue. Most people/creators have no problem listening to constructive criticism. but I've never understood people insulting other peoples work. It certainly doesn't help motivate any improvement. Personally I don't have a problem with forums banning people who have no concept of constructive criticism or a WIP. They serve no useful purpose, and just start flame wars, that mask any useful content in the threads.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Hopefully its just a language issue.

'nuff said. let's leave it at that folks.

And let's all talk about the sexy clouds!

[ATAG_Snapper]

do not! I did not want to offend or write rude. Sorry if Google messed up the message.
I would like to pay attention to those things that do not need to touch!
There is a proverb - "A good horse furrow not spoil!"

No worries! Thank you for posting! :thumbsup:

Snapper :salute:

[Mattias]

Awesome work chaps!

Just one minor point; I still think some of the larger clouds are too cotton-ball in shape. They should have flatter bottoms and maybe less noticeable texture. I know Dutch will find a lot of humour in what I just wrote aha.

Other than that, fantastic work! That terrain is looking awesome as well.

:salute:
We all love a flat bottom, don't we?:)

We wish and try to getting the clouds as real life-like as possible within the limitations of the game engine and popular wish not to increase GPU strain/decrease FPS.

Regarding constructive criticism in general; we very much appreciate to get it at this stage, in the Fridays update WIP threads, rather than after release :thumbsup: We do read and consider it all, and if we agree (which we do not always do of course :D) and it's technically possible we try our best to implement it.

Also, some kind of picture or equally substantial "evidence" always helps in determining the value of the suggestion/criticism :thumbsup:

Cheers/m

[Roblex]

Making judgements about other terrain when the subject pointed to by the OP is clearly clouds indicates a lack of respect or understanding.

...on the other hand....

I have had a lot of experience of being shown 'WIP' software (not talking games here) and getting my head bitten off for pointing out a flaw when "it is just a WIP" so kept my mouth shut next time. A few months later it has been turned live with the flaw in place and suddenly it is "Well when we were showing functionality 'X' to the users nobody said anything about not liking the way 'Y' looked and now it is live it will be hard to change." As a developer I have also had the opposite "Well we did not mention it at the time because we knew it was still being developed." not to mention "Oh that has been wrong since it was released but we just work round it" Grrrrrrr! :D For myself, I would like someone to point out the bits they don't like and they answer they will get from me is either "OK. We did not realise you would not like that." or "It's OK. We have not done that part yet."

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, I am another person that has thought before that sometimes the WIP pics we get are a bit odd looking in terms of tonality but I assumed that was just the way that particular person had his graphics set up and we would see it differently. If it turns out that what we are seeing is a how the team intends the graphics to look then the earlier people give feedback, the better, even if it when something else is being demonstrated. It is not 'making judgements' or criticising and certainly not disrespecting the time and effort that went into it, it is just feedback (as long as it is done politely). If the answer is 'Don't worry about that, we are still tweaking the colours & tones' or even 'That is the decision we have made and are happy it is correct' then that is all that need be said.

Let me finish by saying I am in awe of what TF has achieved in their spare time when a team of paid full-time professionals were unable to give us even 10% of the improvements we have. :salute: It reminds me of the time I was asked for an estimate of how long it would take me to design, write and release some software and I replied 'two months' to which they replied 'No good, we *have* to have it in one month'. So they hired a contract programmer who spent SIX MONTHS on an inflated salary investigating the problem and at the end delivered a lovely presentation explaining why what they requested was impossible and my bosses went away happy at money well spent.
:doh:

[TheVino3]

People shouldnt worry, we have no problem with feedback :thumbsup: If you think something doesnt look right to you, then you have the right to say it - however, saying "that looks terrible." really doesnt help a whole lot...and generally just comes across a bit rude. Thats what got this whole discussion going, really. Feedback is good! Feedback is an important part of Friday updates, but the feedback should really be useful to us.

For instance, if most people think the trees are too dark, thats fine - you guys who will be playing the game as well, after all :D - but it'd be more helpful to show us why you think the trees are so dark. I know that sounds a little like "naah proove it", but really if people said "well judging by this picture etc etc etc" rather than "too dark", then we could better model the colour for you. As it is, we have based our colour choices off photos for the most part, but any input is helpful so dont hesitate to say "why doesnt it look like that in this photo here". Anyway, the trees are more relevant to the actual terrain Friday Update from a while ago - but this is relevant to the clouds as well. So just remember, feedback is useful as long as you make it a bit more helpful than "that looks terrible" :thumbsup:

Cheers

[Roblex]

feedback is useful as long as you make it a bit more helpful than "that looks terrible"

Fair enough. I did say 'As long as it is done politely' and the original commenter did phrase it badly, possibly through bad translation. I was just a bit worried that the reactions were coming back even less politely and giving the impression that anything that did not say 'Wow!' was unwelcome and would not be tolerated.:hide:

[RedToo]

Well here we go.

The clouds look much, much better. Well done.

The trees (IMHO) do look too dark particularly from lower elevations. They don't look too bad from higher up. Do I have any photos etc. to show? No. I'm simply saying that on my monitor, to my eyes, compared to other flight sims and real life (I live in the north of the UK and have lived in Dover in the past) they appear too dark. There also seem to me to be a few too many pointy conifer types along field edges than there are in the UK in real life. Conifers in the UK are mostly confined to forests not field boundaries.

Not wanting to upset anybody but wanting to help make CoD better,

RedToo.

[SepiaX]

As living ... precision work:thumbsup:

[philip.ed]

3388

How about now?

I can see it. Looking awesome :thumbsup:

[Manoxerox]

:salute:
We all love a flat bottom, don't we?:)

We wish and try to getting the clouds as real life-like as possible within the limitations of the game engine and popular wish not to increase GPU strain/decrease FPS.

Regarding constructive criticism in general; we very much appreciate to get it at this stage, in the Fridays update WIP threads, rather than after release :thumbsup: We do read and consider it all, and if we agree (which we do not always do of course :D) and it's technically possible we try our best to implement it.

Also, some kind of picture or equally substantial "evidence" always helps in determining the value of the suggestion/criticism :thumbsup:

Cheers/m
Yes!! Better flat bottom than flop out bottom:nnbb:
But I would like to see 2-3 pics without sharpening effect used. And as important as life-like is the life-size aspect. And for those who complain about colours etc.: use your own imagination and create your own colour and/or visual world using video card settings and/or e.g. SweetFX. Like they say: variola is the space of life!!:recon:

[DennydD]

I like the new look and the clouds...Yeah! I asked Bliss a while back about the viewing distance of them and now it is done. Very nice.

The grass is also visible now!

Just :thumbsup:

[DUI]

For instance, if most people think the trees are too dark, thats fine - you guys who will be playing the game as well, after all :D - but it'd be more helpful to show us why you think the trees are so dark. I know that sounds a little like "naah proove it", but really if people said "well judging by this picture etc etc etc" rather than "too dark", then we could better model the colour for you. As it is, we have based our colour choices off photos for the most part, but any input is helpful so dont hesitate to say "why doesnt it look like that in this photo here".
Here we go: Two pictures of an oak (http://www.buero-hoppe.de/eiche.htm) in daylight. The first one very much green and the second one darker green but still green.

I think this picture (http://www.gut-klostermuehle.com/fileadmin/images/seiten/presse/Pressebilder/Luftaufnahme2.jpg) nicely shows that trees have different colors, with broadleaf trees (like the ones shown on the WIP screenshot) generally more "lime-green" and conifers generally being darker green.

And for comparison reasons the very dark WIP trees with some shades of green:
3390
I would not have never expected that I ever have to show someone how ordinary European trees look like. Also shocked that I am spending so much time in arguing what the color of trees should be. :)

Thanks for the statement about the feedback - much appreciated!

[Meaks]

Wow............superb work guys,thank you very much indeed,there is no doubt some great talent there in that Team Fusion :)

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

I think it all looks very nice. One big question, is there any ETA on this? Thank you

We are working towards a late August/early September release.

And if that seems like a long time, below is a general outline of the changes and additions we hope to include. Most of these have been mentioned already on the board.

- Refinement of Flight Model performance for all Fighter aircraft, more accurate ceilings, altitude performance, etc.
- Revision of high speed handling for all aircraft
- Revision of overheat modelling for all aircraft
- Revision of damage modelling for all aircraft
- Revision of all onboard weapons types effects
- 10 or more new aircraft versions (not new aircraft models, new versions of existing aircraft, most flyable, some not)
- Up to 3 new versions of Channel Map, Summer, Fall, Winter
- Revision of LOD's to improve spotting
- Revision of Cloud effects
- Many new cockpit etc. revisions
- Many new aircraft skins
- Revision of graphics effects for weapons, explosions, etc.
- Updated and revised terrain, object, cloud, ocean, etc. textures and effects
- Probably have missed a number of improvements

- Special mod package of effects, aircraft, etc. which will be revealed later.

[92Sqn.Strings (GZ-O)]

the first thing i noticed was the draw distance of the clouds and thought wow
the second was that the trees look like trees and having lived my life in the southern part of the globe thought little of the color tonality of said vegetation.
what i did think though was that the shimmering effect that is usually apparent when looking at trees was not evident which leads to the hypothisisisis that maybe the shimmering that is currently visible on aircraft may not be there when the patch goes live and then maybe we what does fly spitfires might have a chance at following the invisible 109 that climbs into the sky above us.
thirdly i thought that TF is doing fantastic job and should possibly consider doing a kickstarter to get the funds to purchase the rights to the game engine and get a salary for the stuff what they do.
great job guys S!
Strings

[II./JG1_Baron]

Really fantastic... Cant wait for new patch from TF...

[Zappatime]

We are working towards a late August/early September release.



- Special mod package of effects, aircraft, etc. which will be revealed later.

oooh, intrigued!...... you teasers; keep up the great work, that patch feature list is looking mega.:thumbsup:

[miky]

We are working towards a late August/early September release.

Thank you very much!

[wuffman]

Very Nice. Thank You TF

[evilvoland]

Thanks for your work TF!
Does someone work on collision with a tree?
And on screenshots, especially canopy cover is not visible ladders. How smoothed the way? The video card or SweetFX or... game?
Good luck!

[Cassius]

Thanks for your work. Those who do not like the work TF, always can switch the patch to the original or another is the easiest way ... Make it better yourself. If you can...:)

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Got to say as someone who moaned like hell about the colours of the landscape palette of CLOD during the development, the colours in these screenshots look perfect to my eyes.

Very well done.

[Flyingblind]

I too like the latest colours. Much better than anything before, even the dark trees. If it is decided to lighten them I hope is only by a teeny amount. Curious to know what happened to the white wave tops though. Will they be coming back or even come and go with wind strength? Whatever. It is all looking excellent especially with the clouds and reflective skins.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Only for evidence, not because I have a strong opinion either way; Photo of SevenOaks Golf Course, in Kent, on bright-blue-sky day.

3396

The shade-side colours are very dark, but the sun-side leaves are a very bright green. Not sure how many species are in this, only a couple it looks to my eyes.

[priller26]

We are working towards a late August/early September release.

And if that seems like a long time, below is a general outline of the changes and additions we hope to include. Most of these have been mentioned already on the board.

- Refinement of Flight Model performance for all Fighter aircraft, more accurate ceilings, altitude performance, etc.
- Revision of high speed handling for all aircraft
- Revision of overheat modelling for all aircraft
- Revision of damage modelling for all aircraft
- Revision of all onboard weapons types effects
- 10 or more new aircraft versions (not new aircraft models, new versions of existing aircraft, most flyable, some not)
- Up to 3 new versions of Channel Map, Summer, Fall, Winter
- Revision of LOD's to improve spotting
- Revision of Cloud effects
- Many new cockpit etc. revisions
- Many new aircraft skins
- Revision of graphics effects for weapons, explosions, etc.
- Updated and revised terrain, object, cloud, ocean, etc. textures and effects
- Probably have missed a number of improvements

- Special mod package of effects, aircraft, etc. which will be revealed later.


Thank you very much for the information. Timed coincidentally for the actual battle of Britain? It looks like all your hard work and hours are certainly paying off. It certainly is a joy seeing so much attention given to these small details. You all have made this game so much more playable And enjoyable.
Thanks again, much appreciated.

[Roblex]

It has only just occurred to me but... has increasing the cloud visibility distance also increased the con-trail distance? Probably a silly question as even though they are scientifically similar things they are likely to be different models in CLOD.

It would be nice to see con-trails from further away but it could put a terrible strain on performance. I am a bit surprised that seeing clouds from further away does not affect performance. Maybe the LOD rules reduce the impact?

[Katdog5]

thats what im talking bout

booya