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JG52Karaya
Jul-24-2013, 04:45
Hello,

first let me say that I enjoy flying with the TF patch a lot, I think it has improved on the base sim quite a bit and I look forward to future releases! Having said that I wanted to point out two things that I think could be worthwhile for inclusion in the next patch (or the one after if time does not permit)

Suggestion #1: A check up on the MG FF cannon

I do not personally have access to Cliffs armament and ammunition values so I cannot check myself what is right/wrong but I was always puzzled by the choice of rounds available to the vanilla MG FF cannon (non /M). From what I have been able to gather there were only 3 different types of rounds available for the cannon, these being:

Sprenggranatpatrone L-Spur-FF (i.e. High explosive round Tracer FF)

and the

Sprenggranatpatrone L-Spur-Ueb.-FF (i.e. High explosive round Tracer Practice FF)

as well as the

Sprenggranatpatrone Ueb.-FF (i.e. High explosive round Practice FF)

Information on these rounds is available here (http://de.scribd.com/doc/101428785/maschinengewehr-mg-ff-ausfuhrungen-30-05-1940)

Also reading through the above document I came to the following conclusion:

It seems that the MG FF was loaded down with a mix of the first two rounds in the ratio of 1:4 and the last type of round was ONLY used for adjusting the cannon and checking up on its proper functioning. The document further states that the practice shells did not have neither detonator nor HE filler so they basically acted as "full rounds" (i.e AP) and had the exact same ballistic properties as the non-practice round.

Also about the MG FF: It is important to note that it could only fire projectiles of 134g weight. The later MG FF/M was modified to fire the newly introduced 92g Minengeschoss round which had roughly 4-5 times the amount of explosive that the ordinary HE shell carried up to that point (18g vs 4g). In order to being able to fire the Minengeschoss the recoil mechanism had to be lightened in order for the gun to be able to cycle but that in turn meant it could not fire the old 134g projectiles without risk of damaging the gun, therefore new types of rounds were introduced in order to complement the Minengeschoss. These ranged between 115 - 117g weight and included AP, API, HE & HEI rounds (as well as tracer variants of these). So you see these two cannons are quite different animals!

Now coming back to my original observation: I have seen several types of rounds for the MG FF in Cliffs that I have never seen in a technical description, in fact to me it seems that in Cliffs the MG FF is the same as the FF/M except for the lack of Minengeschoss rounds which of course is simply wrong. I would therefore appreciate it if the TF team could have a look at this particular gun and adjust it accordingly!

Suggestion #2: Fixing the Bf110C-7 and introducing a C-4/B model

Most people probably already know but our ingame C-7 model is basically just a C-4/B with the ability of carrying a pair of 500kg bombs (the real life C-4/B was limited to 2x250kg). A true to life C-7 model would require the engines to be changed to DB601Ns and the cannons to be changed to the FF/M type and most probably also to have automatic prop pitch added.

I would therefore suggest a cloning of our C-7 with the same current FM but loadouts limited to 2x250kg and upgrading our existing C-7 by the above mentioned measures!

Please give it a thought, another Bf110 certainly would not hurt!

JG52Karaya
Jul-30-2013, 14:32
Some more observations regarding the MG FF in CloD (found on the Bf 109E-3/E-3B & Bf 110C-4/C-7). Just recently tested a few ammunition combinations of the existing rounds in CloD and found out the following:

- The "Brandsprenggranate" (High explosive incendiary round) seems to be anything but a HE round. If fired at water there is no impact splash, no explosion, no frag pattern, nothing!

- The "Brandgranate" (Incendiary round) actually is a high explosive round. It has a time delayed fuze and results in a frag pattern on the water surface. Seems like it's what the above round is supposed to be!

Did not test the other rounds yet but will do so as I have time and post my observations in here.

Mattias
Jul-30-2013, 15:04
:salute:

Thank you for the information and obeservations JG52Karaya :thumbsup:
I'm not working on the ammo part and can't answer any of this (but still felt the urge to make a post for some reason :D)
I will ask one of the ammo guys to get back to you on this.

Cheers/m

LG1.Klein
Jul-31-2013, 09:51
Karaya thank you for the informative post. It also helps that I agree with most of it. I know little about ammo so I can not comment on it much.

You have said exactly what I have been thinking since the beginning with regards to the C7. The C7 in it's current form is just a C4 with the ability to carry bombs. One thing missing though is that the C4/b actually had uprated engines over the standard C4. So in it's current form with the C7 having the same engines/power as the C4 is wrong. A true C7 should have the N engine and the C4/b should have the DB601Bb engine which rates at about 100hp more than the standard DB601B. I've mentioned this on a couple occasions but I have been told I was wrong so I've let it be.

My opinion of the 110 family.

110C4: DB601B engine. No bombs.
110C4/b: DB601Bb(apprx 100hp more per engine.) uprated engine. 2x250kg bombs. Bomb rack removable?
110C7: DB601N upgraded engine. 2x500kg bombs. Bomb rack removable?

This similar discussion took place years ago in a game called WW2 Online or Battleground: Europe as it's now called. Well it took place over the 110C4 and the 110C4/b. The C7 was never discussed in that game.

LG1.Klein
Jul-31-2013, 09:51
Sorry for double post. Website kept telling me null result found or some nonsense like that. Didn't know I was replying.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jul-31-2013, 12:57
There will be multiple new versions of the 110 provided in Release 2, including the C-4N with DB601N, as well as a C7/b with uprated DB601B engine.

I have contacted Karaya, and he may be joining the weapons/damage team to provide assistance to our lead member.


Karaya thank you for the informative post. It also helps that I agree with most of it. I know little about ammo so I can not comment on it much.

You have said exactly what I have been thinking since the beginning with regards to the C7. The C7 in it's current form is just a C4 with the ability to carry bombs. One thing missing though is that the C4/b actually had uprated engines over the standard C4. So in it's current form with the C7 having the same engines/power as the C4 is wrong. A true C7 should have the N engine and the C4/b should have the DB601Bb engine which rates at about 100hp more than the standard DB601B. I've mentioned this on a couple occasions but I have been told I was wrong so I've let it be.

My opinion of the 110 family.

110C4: DB601B engine. No bombs.
110C4/b: DB601Bb(apprx 100hp more per engine.) uprated engine. 2x250kg bombs. Bomb rack removable?
110C7: DB601N upgraded engine. 2x500kg bombs. Bomb rack removable?

This similar discussion took place years ago in a game called WW2 Online or Battleground: Europe as it's now called. Well it took place over the 110C4 and the 110C4/b. The C7 was never discussed in that game.

Kling
Jul-31-2013, 13:01
There will be multiple new versions of the 110 provided in Release 2, including the C-4N with DB601N, as well as a C7/b with uprated DB601B engine.

I have contacted Karaya, and he may be joining the weapons/damage team to provide assistance to our lead member.

Great news Buzzaws!!

Time for a teaser video soon dont you think? ;)

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jul-31-2013, 13:21
Great news Buzzaws!!

Time for a teaser video soon dont you think? ;)

We need to test the beta first.

Mysticpuma will be no doubt providing you with some video eye candy in the future... :hide:

ATAG_Colander
Jul-31-2013, 13:48
We need to test the beta first.

Mysticpuma will be no doubt providing you with some video eye candy in the future... :hide:

Alpha :D

III./ZG76_Saipan
Jul-31-2013, 14:32
perhaps a tweaked ai gunner upgrade? not asking for a sniper but these default guys are horrendous.