The pre-orders page is up.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I guess I must be a sucker, But there are few flight sims I haven't bought. If nothing else I guess it will be interesting to see what they have on offer.

The promo video looks fairly good with. I guess only time will tell.

Oh and they have a new web site

http://il2sturmovik.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFBl49lQdeg&list=PLAn5xS7gOumkW8w0WdFsYX2h9RI9S42ym

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFBl49lQdeg&list=PLAn5xS7gOumkW8w0WdFsYX2h9RI9S42ym

Cheers!

Ouch! - Not 1c-777's fault but I got burned with the exchange rate - Only a month or two ago the AU was at $1.09US now its down to $0.89 - Maybe I should have waited for a better rate!

[Black]

Any details if the game needs steam?

To be honest I don't like this stupid "Preorder the super expensive edition to get a super great golden logo next to your name!". How old am I ffs, 12? I will not preorder, I want to see if they have a better launch than Clifs of Dover.

Looking forward to it nevertheless, if they make a great game I support it!

[Royraiden]

Any details if the game needs steam?

To be honest I don't like this stupid "Preorder the super expensive edition to get a super great golden logo next to your name!". How old am I ffs, 12? I will not preorder, I want to see if they have a better launch than Clifs of Dover.

Looking forward to it nevertheless, if they make a great game I support it!

1+:thumbsup:

[Archie]

To be honest I don't like this stupid "Preorder the super expensive edition to get a super great golden logo next to your name!". How old am I ffs, 12? !

This is the target audience ;)

$89 is pushing it I think, one for the 'fans'

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

As I've said elsewhere. I'm shy now of investing pre-release.

CloD is ticking the boxes for me right now, and I don't see the need to buy a game that (1) is still in pre-order and (2) is for a theater (eastern front) which I don't really give a crap about.

Hwever, if BoS really does turn out to provide some truly revolutionary simming features that bring a new level of immersion and realism to the genre, I will buy it. But only after the release-dust settles.

[gavagai]

Any details if the game needs steam?

To be honest I don't like this stupid "Preorder the super expensive edition to get a super great golden logo next to your name!". How old am I ffs, 12? I will not preorder, I want to see if they have a better launch than Clifs of Dover.

Looking forward to it nevertheless, if they make a great game I support it!

Agreed.

The special-logo thing is based on the newer approaches to DLC marketing. Game-makers have discovered that many will pay money just to have accoutrements that others can see. These customers are sometimes known as "peacocks" in the marketing speak.

I noticed they're keeping the unlockable aircraft thing, too. That's a deal-breaker for me. If I wanted War Thunder I would be playing it right now. Maybe they'll come to their senses in the future.

[JG5_Emil]

Any details if the game needs steam?

To be honest I don't like this stupid "Preorder the super expensive edition to get a super great golden logo next to your name!". How old am I ffs, 12? I will not preorder, I want to see if they have a better launch than Clifs of Dover.

Looking forward to it nevertheless, if they make a great game I support it!

The pre order comes with two extra aircraft and to be able to be involved in the Beta or at least get to sample the Sim two or three months earlier. Is it really worth that extra 30 quid? That's down to the individual but I doubt anyone even noticed if you get some gold star or something...I didn't :D

I pre-order only the games/sims that I really want to support. They are limited to ARMA and CLOD and now BOS.

In fact on the subject of CLOD I fully expected that I wouldn't be able to fly the sim on the pc I had back then but I have had thousands of hours of enjoyment from such a small investment so I felt obliged to buy it even before I built my gaming rig. I don't owe 777 the same but I still want to support them. If I get burned this time I'll probably never do it again but the main way I'd feel burned would be if the sim came out and was really dumbed down a la war thunder etc. I am fully expecting a very good flight and damage model although I don't think it will be as good (or have teh potential) as CLOD.

[EG14_Marcast]

As I've said elsewhere. I'm shy now of investing pre-release.

CloD is ticking the boxes for me right now, and I don't see the need to buy a game that (1) is still in pre-order and (2) is for a theater (eastern front) which I don't really give a crap about.

Hwever, if BoS really does turn out to provide some truly revolutionary simming features that bring a new level of immersion and realism to the genre, I will buy it. But only after the release-dust settles.

I agree...I'm satisfied with CloD (more and more with TF patches) and the Eastern Front never excited me so much. I'll buy BoS only if it will be extraordinary.

[NLS61]

Hm, at this stage it feels like crowd funding to me.
That is not wrong but I for one would like the honesty for the developer to call it such.
The benefits of pre ordering don't seem interesting to me, and the two extra planes seem extraordinary expensive.
If that is to be the regular price for add-on planes I will keep well away from this title.
Furthermore the information about the product is slight to say the least.
But it maybe that this series is not aimed at westerners at all, being situated at the east front. Does anybody know what pre ordering cost in Russia?
Looking at that intro film the title promises some Hollywood style encounters flashing mussels and such.
The thing that mesmerises me is the way the clouds are done that is simply the best i've ever seen it, remains of coarse the question will that be the representation in the actual release also.
After looking at this promo on a frame by frame basis it seems that there is quite al lot of after effect style effects, very beautiful as they are but mayhap not as hardcore as I would like it.
All in all I don't see a valid reason to pre order now, if they need money they should ask for it, but selling something that ( literally ) virtually doesn't exist I wont buy.
Further more this sort of titles are dropping in price very rapidly after release regularly, makes me decide to go for the late bird advantage this time around.
One can not hold that against a guy in my opinion, as they are continuing a slightly burned title, not that cod is bad I still enjoy it quit often, but the after sales standing taken by the publisher on COD was way below par.
May hap that they will select an other for the western release of the eastern front, in my opinion that would be a good idea, but still even then I'm no not sceptic but sure enough careful.

Cheers,

Niels

[Black]

I ignore those intros / trailers / whatever you want to call them anyway, looks like every other action trailer I have seen so far. What you see there is like 1% of the actual game, the 99% of less interesting moments in the game that make a flight sim so interesting are not shown because nothing explodes there, no cannons are fired etc. I am actually surprised they chose such a trailer though because it doesnt fit a real flight sim in my opinion, if they want to attract real flight simmers they could just show simple things like formation flights and stuff like that. If someone would have told me that this is the trailer for a war thunder addon I would have believed it to be honest!

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

I ignore those intros / trailers / whatever you want to call them anyway, looks like every other action trailer I have seen so far. .... if they want to attract real flight simmers they could just show simple things like formation flights and stuff like that. If someone would have told me that this is the trailer for a war thunder addon I would have believed it to be honest!

I know I'm coming across as perhaps overly critical but I must agree with you. What impresses me about a good sim is complexity (Damage, Flight model, maps, groud objects, interactions etc..), not flash-bang! action.

[Oersted]

I don't get the critique of the premium version at all: it is not just about a gold sign, you actually get a Focke-Wulf FW-190 as well! That is why I preordered the premium edition.

I am sorry to read some of the jaded cynical comment sin here and at il2sturmovik.net. how about we just rejoicve in the fact that some people make hi-fidelity flight sims for all of us to enjoy? - You know, sim makers are on a shoe-string budget, there is really no need to kick a genre that is already lying on the ground.

[E69_pupo]

I don't get the critique of the premium version at all: it is not just about a gold sign, you actually get a Focke-Wulf FW-190 as well! That is why I preordered the premium edition.


im just wondering how much the fW-190 and LA5 will cost afterwards. because if 2 planes are going to cost 40 bucks, its way to expensive, if not, people who are ordering the premium are being ripped.

[Oersted]

A trailer like this is supposed to capture new people, no those who are already flightsimmers and who know about the sim anyway.

[Black]

So in other words I pay 40 extra for a 190, no thanks ;)

I guess they will cost as much as additional planes in Rise of Flight and that would make the Premium edition totally overpriced!

[Royraiden]

I don't get the critique of the premium version at all: it is not just about a gold sign, you actually get a Focke-Wulf FW-190 as well! That is why I preordered the premium edition.

I am sorry to read some of the jaded cynical comment sin here and at il2sturmovik.net. how about we just rejoicve in the fact that some people make hi-fidelity flight sims for all of us to enjoy? - You know, sim makers are on a shoe-string budget, there is really no need to kick a genre that is already lying on the ground.

There is nothing cynical about our opinions.Just because I dont want to preorder doesnt mean Im not eager to see the actual sim and if it is good enough for me I will buy it.So far we havent seen much gameplay, just a couple of videos, so I rather wait and see more to consider any preorder.The silly logos and stuff like that are truly unnecessary from my point of view but that is not the reason I am not pre ordering.And yes I am really excited about the butcher bird, but again we havent even seen a single picture about it.Congratulations to you and everyone else who already supported BOS with your money, just dont label me(or us) for having a different approach on the matter.

[Oersted]

So in other words I pay 40 extra for a 190, no thanks ;)

I guess they will cost as much as additional planes in Rise of Flight and that would make the Premium edition totally overpriced!

40 dollars for the FW-190 AND the La-5, making it 20 dollars per plane. Still overpriced? OK, tell me about all those other sims where you can get planes of a similar quality at that price, because I'd like to see them...

[Black]

Of a smiliar quality? Which quality are you talking about? The flight model? The quality of the game itself? Do you know something no one else knows? 20 for one 3D model + flightmodel, think about it. 2 planes are almost as expensive as a full prized game?

Anyway, I respect your opinion, you could try doing the same when it comes to other opinions.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I don't blame anyone for holding off. The trailer is very nice, but I want to see the gameplay not some special effects movie. We really don't know that much about the sim yet other than it is like ROF with WWII planes.

As the others have said, if it is good I will buy everything they make for it, but if its restricted like ROF, as a MP only guy, I will not be purchasing. If this is to be the successor to IL2 with the IL2 name, it had better at least be able to do something 10 year old IL2 did back in the FB days. If not, we are going backwards.

I'm also very interested to see what Ilya is coming up with for WWII in DCS. Either way, looks like we'll have plenty of WWII sims to keep us occupied.

[Royraiden]

Pictures just published:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3814642/IL2_Battle_of_Stalingrad_scree#Post3814642

Some of them look gorgeous.

[Oersted]

double posting, sorry (bit of trouble with the site, hope it is not an attack!)

[Oersted]

There is nothing cynical about our opinions.Just because I dont want to preorder doesnt mean Im not eager to see the actual sim and if it is good enough for me I will buy it.So far we havent seen much gameplay, just a couple of videos, so I rather wait and see more to consider any preorder.The silly logos and stuff like that are truly unnecessary from my point of view but that is not the reason I am not pre ordering.And yes I am really excited about the butcher bird, but again we havent even seen a single picture about it.Congratulations to you and everyone else who already supported BOS with your money, just dont label me(or us) for having a different approach on the matter.

Not thinking of you, but more of NLS61 and a few others.

I definitely respect the opinions of others, so no need to go down that road, but if I think some are being cynical and jaded I'm absolutely going to say that as well. I'm not allowed an opinion on what others write? Why even have a forum then? Anyway, if what I'm saying is so totally unacceptable I'll just stay away, so cheers I'll stop posting in here for the foreseeable future. Maybe see you in some months time. Thanks for the links to screenies btw.

[Royraiden]

Not thinking of you, but more of NLS61 and a few others.

I definitely respect the opinions of others, so no need to go down that road, but if I think some are being cynical and jaded I'm absolutely going to say that as well. I'm not allowed an opinion on what others write? Why even have a forum then? Anyway, if what I'm saying is so totally unacceptable I'll just stay away, so cheers I'll stop posting in here for the foreseeable future. Maybe see you in some months time. Thanks for the links to screenies btw.

Well Oersted I just respectfully and publicly wrote that I disagree with something you said,you know wrote more about your reasons and thats about it.Why would you feel the need to stay away from a discussion for that?

Anyways back on topic, more pictures and videos are planned for tomorrow.Hopefully we will get to see more gameplay.

[Black]

Oersted in the end, if the game is good, we will all come together again and enjoy the flying experience. However for now I prefer to stay on the safe side and not risk wasting 50, or even 90, before I know the game is really worth the money, as easy as that! I have no blind trust in any company anymore, if you think different thats your decision mate :thumbsup:

[startrekmike]

It seems like a lot of the pre-order cost (at least the premium version) is due to early access, I mean, if you get the standard edition you can access it in the winter of 2013, if you do premium, you get access in the fall.

I don't know, I mean, the lack of extra planes on the normal pre-order kinda rubs me the wrong way but I do like the early access stuff.

[III./ZG76_Saipan]

any game I ever pre ordered sucked, colonial marines, clod (vanilla), etc. Ill wait until the reviews come in. Not a fan of RoF so i am not expecting much.

[Kodoss]

hmm,

F-4 failures so far:
- wrong Revi sight (outer Revi lines to short), (you will see the correct Revi sight in our next release)
- missing plexyglas stripe to open the top window (exists since E-4),
- head armor with wrong bolt position (must be vertical) and wrong upper armor holder (shouldn't be visible from that view),
- no leather rest for the head at the head armor (quadratic cushion with round edges)

The head armor looks to wide, but that could be a point of view thing (no binocular view).

I fear we have to pay for our armored front glass...

If someone of you is registrated there, please tell them these failures for correction :salute:

[Mastiff]

89.99/8=11.25 approximately per aircraft.
So pretty worth it to me. Unlock-able content is basically
You need to learn first before you can fly on line. They don't want a novice to go on the
Multiplayer and start chatting how do i do this how do i do that. Its for our own good.

[Chivas]

I've always tried to support most of the sims in this genre early and often, especially if I believe in the developer and product. It was an awesome trailer, but it immediately brought back memories of the CFS3 trailer, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. The BOS trailer will definitely sell product, but for a few reasons I will wait for info more representative of the product.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I think the video is sweet, however I'm not too keen on the "buy now - else its the end of the world for combat flightsims" hookline. From what I've seen at ROF forums, the folk there seem like they feel abandoned.

I will wait and see how the game matures, and in the meantime I'm looking forward to Ilya's 1 September announcement. I doubt great numbers will be playing BoS online until the main release anyway.

[Archie]

The RoF forum is a pretty sad place to be lately, abandoned is the right word. I like the trailer, but it obviously has little to have with the actual game, and is targeted at a certain audience. WT players might think it is great.
Hopefully real game play trailers will appear soon, and people will get a better idea.

[Mastiff]

I don't feel abandon, ROF is still being worked on and supported for those kind of allegation to be made when your not behind the scenes is just liable conjecture. As stated before there is 2 teams ROF and 1CGamesStudios.

[Salmo]

Nope, not for me I'm afraid. One bitten twice shy.

* No system specs
* No information on whether early development limitatons have been overcome - Max players online?
* "A new, higher level of physics modeling, damage modeling and aerodynamics has been achieved" - Heard that before.
* "will include several famous aircraft that have been recreated from detailed drawings and blueprints" - but no actual detail on which aircraft or models.
* "most ambitious and detailed reconstruction ever attempted in a flight-sim of the most critical battle on the Eastern Front." - Not much details on actual map area(s) in the release.

[Mastiff]

Nope, not for me I'm afraid. One bitten twice shy.

* No system specs if you can fly ROF you can fly this.
* No information on whether early development limitatons have been overcome - Max players online? 100 plus
* "A new, higher level of physics modeling, damage modeling and aerodynamics has been achieved" - Heard that before.
* "will include several famous aircraft that have been recreated from detailed drawings and blueprints" - but no actual detail on which aircraft or models. All models.
* "most ambitious and detailed reconstruction ever attempted in a flight-sim of the most critical battle on the Eastern Front." - Not much details on actual map area(s) in the release.

Well theres more info on there facebook and the map is F'en huge!
All

[Mastiff]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3814642/IL2_Battle_of_Stalingrad_scree#Post3814642


Screen shots

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

I don't blame anyone for holding off. The trailer is very nice, but I want to see the gameplay not some special effects movie. We really don't know that much about the sim yet other than it is like ROF with WWII planes.

As the others have said, if it is good I will buy everything they make for it, but if its restricted like ROF, as a MP only guy, I will not be purchasing. If this is to be the successor to IL2 with the IL2 name, it had better at least be able to do something 10 year old IL2 did back in the FB days. If not, we are going backwards.

I'm also very interested to see what Ilya is coming up with for WWII in DCS. Either way, looks like we'll have plenty of WWII sims to keep us occupied.

Yeah, that's the only thing I don't get. Why would you go to a movie company to have your trailer made when you could use in-game footage and show the game you're trying to sell.

I'm not against buying a pre-order, but they've been really quiet about any FM/DM improvements to the engine, and they haven't mentioned MP much other than it will have MP.

I also don't need an icon next to my name to feel happy about my life :(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2X3vVMdh-s

Oh, and we might see Ilya's game coming up.... next summer... or maybe the summer after that

[con3para]

3445i just hope this don't go down the same rout as War thunder , it will be a arcade Sim with polished graphics and a pay and play game , this wont be for me , i like the history of war , i want Sim not false marketing ..got burnt with CLOD when it first came out , like we all did , i am just happy we still have DCS and ATAG team ............. :P

[Hooves]

3445i just hope this don't go down the same rout as War thunder , it will be a arcade Sim with polished graphics and a pay and play game , this wont be for me , i like the history of war , i want Sim not false marketing ..got burnt with CLOD when it first came out , like we all did , i am just happy we still have DCS and ATAG team ............. :P



ITs Definitely NOT war thunder. Its IL2 just like we have come to love. 1CGS has added pieces of flare that they felt added to the experience. But it is not an MMO. Hurray!!!

Yes DCS is still a very a good product. It will be great to see their flushed out product. Ill be purchasing that for sure!

But until then Stalingrad, here I come!!!

[aus3620]

Thanks RoyRaiden for the screen images link.
If the ground equipment is that good in the game it will be a big step forward in the ground attack role.

Don't blame punters for holding back on pre-ordering. In reality, not much on offer for what I suggest is going to be a premium price.

However, the little I have seen suggests a more advanced flight model that I am looking forward to trying. Not to mention weather and more advanced "air" environment.

When I really enjoy a game or genre I don't mind going the pre-order route, if just to show my support to the developers. So I'm in.

Look forward to seeing others post official release, I think this is going to be the successor that we all hoped CLoD would be.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

My decision to pre order was based mainly on the ability to see the sim earlier. Basically I couldn't help myself.

What the saying? "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread!" and when it comes to flight sims I (and my wife for that matter) consider myself to be a bit of a fool.

I doubt anyone is going to revisit the early years of WWII for quite a while so COD will be with us for quite a long time. I think it is going to be very interesting seeing what BoS delivers.

[Salmo]

Well theres more info on there facebook and the map is F'en huge!
All

Thanks to Mastiff & Hooves for answering my questions :)

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Well there's more info on there facebook and the map is F'en huge!
All

BoS map will be about 250*160 km2 (40,000km2)
Existing Clod Map is about 150*150 km2 (22,000km2)

So yes, it will be a big map.

[Mattias]

BoS map will be about 250*160 km2 (40,000km2)
Existing Clod Map is about 150*150 km2 (22,000km2)

So yes, it will be a big map.

:salute:

I thought the Clod channel map was 360 x 310 km2?

In any case the BoS map size will be sufficient :thumbsup:

Cheers/m

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

I think the video is sweet, however I'm not too keen on the "buy now - else its the end of the world for combat flightsims" hookline. From what I've seen at ROF forums, the folk there seem like they feel abandoned.

I will wait and see how the game matures, and in the meantime I'm looking forward to Ilya's 1 September announcement. I doubt great numbers will be playing BoS online until the main release anyway.

Deja CLoD Slipstream.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

I think the video is sweet, however I'm not too keen on the "buy now - else its the end of the world for combat flightsims" hookline. From what I've seen at ROF forums, the folk there seem like they feel abandoned.

I will wait and see how the game matures, and in the meantime I'm looking forward to Ilya's 1 September announcement. I doubt great numbers will be playing BoS online until the main release anyway.

Deja CLoD Slipstream.


:) Naked Squirrel

Sorry about the double post. The forum has been acting weird like my connection is lost? To many meaningless posts maybe?

[JG5_Emil]

Nope, not for me I'm afraid. One bitten twice shy.

* No system specs
* No information on whether early development limitatons have been overcome - Max players online?
* "A new, higher level of physics modeling, damage modeling and aerodynamics has been achieved" - Heard that before.
* "will include several famous aircraft that have been recreated from detailed drawings and blueprints" - but no actual detail on which aircraft or models.
* "most ambitious and detailed reconstruction ever attempted in a flight-sim of the most critical battle on the Eastern Front." - Not much details on actual map area(s) in the release.

Someone took videos of the presentation given by LOFT. Some of your questions are at least partly answered. They show some of the DM and they show the map size. Also they mentioned the multi-player is up to 100 pilots I believe.

The aircraft that are going to be in the game are

LaGG-3
Yak-1
Bf 109 F-4
Bf 109 G-2
IL-2 (1942 year model, single-seat)
Ju 87 D-3
He 111
Pe-2

Also there are two addition aircraft available to purchase which are the FW-190-A3 and the La-5

[DUI]

Beside the overaverage price - I think it is difficult to choose for the normal priced standard version if there is two very popular planes only in the premium one - there is one thing that holds me back most from pre-ordering. And that is the way 777 Studios/1C tried to put Cliffs of Dover over the edge by not granting Team Fusion insight into its source code.

To my ears it sounds quite weird that they are trying the "support the flight sim genre" now:

We invite you to become a participant in the development of BOS by placing a Pre-Order. By doing this, you will be the first to get access to the product and help us to make it even better.The combat flight-sim genre now needs your attention; (...)
I mean, it sounds quite weird after trying everything to harm the Cliffs of Dover community and to make the work of Team Fusion as difficult as possible.

Though, quite excited about the release of the flight sim I will await some more news on BoS before I will make a pre-order decision.
For the moment the next Team Fusion release counts much more for me.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Whatever our personal feelings are about the source code not being released it's undoubtedly the right decision for 1c from a commercial standpoint that looks toward the future. Using the 777 engine is the future for them and they'll be looking to expand into multiple theatres no doubt. Doesn't make sense for them commercially to empower a competitor where future sales would only net them maybe 10 euro per copy sold - especially a competitor which has a bad reputation (mostly undeserved now thanks to TF) in the marketplace.

[Black]

Dui you can buy the Fw190 A3 and the La5 extra lateron, I expect the aircrafts to be in the same price range as RoF aircrafts so it will be cheaper to buy the normal version and buy those two aircrafts afterwards!

[Dutch]

Well theres more info on there facebook and the map is F'en huge!
All

So the map is huge. Great. So when I take-off in my Sturmy, how long will I have to fly before getting to target? This from a dedicated Forgotten Battles Sturmy pilot, with 200-odd missions in the FB offline campaign.

Beats me why everyone is raving over the size of the map. It just means you fly longer with nothing happening. I also remember pacific fighters, with hours of endless ocean, only to be shot down by flak as you approach your target. Yes, I know you can speed things up, but I like to do things 'real' as poss.

Great, the map is big, but Stalingrad is just one city. Cliffs of Dover's map is big too, but who sets off from Normandy to attack London?

The map is huge. Great.

[Foul Ole Ron]

The map being big, while offering long flight times if that's what some players really want, just means there's more variety for mission builders to work with, make better campaigns, etc. Which is a good thing in my opinion - especially if they want to open up into SEOW campaigns where having the extra room to move about in is handy to produce realistic scenarios with patrolling and reconaissance.

[Dutch]

The map being big, while offering long flight times if that's what some players really want, just means there's more variety for mission builders to work with, make better campaigns, etc. Which is a good thing in my opinion - especially if they want to open up into SEOW campaigns where having the extra room to move about in is handy to produce realistic scenarios with patrolling and reconaissance.

Uh-huh. Like we have in Cliffs, you mean? :D All those bombing raids from Normandy to the Supermarine Works at Southampton, the Battle of France missions which would limit Reds to Hurris and Blenheims?

I remember Bliss had an idea for a mission waaaaaay back, when he was going to include a tiger moth reconnaissance flight as a mission objective, flying from the western side of England to Normandy, something like that. A very long flight for a TM anyway. I was looking forward to that, but it didn't go ahead for whatever reason. Probably that only weird masochists like me would even attempt it! :D

[Foul Ole Ron]

Haha yeah I know what you mean. A lot of players want to get into the action with the minimum of fuss and that's fair enough. I've played close to 200 hours on CloD and I've never really been past the coast of France as the way the current missions are setup there's generally not much need to go far - in fact you'll often find them flying right over your aerodrome. I guess it all comes down to mission builders and what players are really interested in playing. If there was a weekly mission that required players to group up and work together I'd be interested in playing that but that might put a lot of people off who just want to get into knife-fights. We'll see what comes along in BOS I guess but it looks to me like CloD is pretty much settled in its ways for the moment given the relatively low numbers that play MP.

[Tvrdi]

I don't blame anyone for holding off. The trailer is very nice, but I want to see the gameplay not some special effects movie. We really don't know that much about the sim yet other than it is like ROF with WWII planes.

As the others have said, if it is good I will buy everything they make for it, but if its restricted like ROF, as a MP only guy, I will not be purchasing. If this is to be the successor to IL2 with the IL2 name, it had better at least be able to do something 10 year old IL2 did back in the FB days. If not, we are going backwards.

I'm also very interested to see what Ilya is coming up with for WWII in DCS. Either way, looks like we'll have plenty of WWII sims to keep us occupied.

This....plus, there is a chance they will abandon BOS if sales are not superb (like they did with ROF, no fm fixes, much slower production of new stuff etc) and to move on with new jet era sim. This time, they should be honest with their customers. So many ROF customers bought new planes and mods in hope fm fixes will happen...and that money was spent on BOS development.

[Mastiff]

This....plus, there is a chance they will abandon BOS if sales are not superb (like they did with ROF, no fm fixes, much slower production of new stuff etc) and to move on with new jet era sim. This time, they should be honest with their customers. So many ROF customers bought new planes and mods in hope fm fixes will happen...and that money was spent on BOS development.

That's a lie Tvrdi and you know it

Tvrdi, on 28 Jul 2013 - 15:19, said:



OK. Lets pretend that is true. You know very well, that many mp folks from ROF purchased planes and mods they never fly and use just to support your team in hope you will fix most critical issues ( FM etc) in the sim. And what you did is work on BOS. Well, how do we know you wouldnt have the same approach for BOS....in some stage of development? Like I said earlier, I dont have a problem to pay and support your or anybody elses products of my interest as long as you have honest and truthfull approach. In fact I wouldnt mind if you told us what is really going on.....from the day one....at least i wouldnt snap. Like my father told me once. "Son. Whatever it is. Tell me the truth. I cant stand a lie." I know marketing and bussiness is always "2 truths and one lie". But is it worth at the end?


at the end BOS would be success only with honest approach after all the recent fiaskos in sim market....

Do not call me a liar Tvrdi or imply that we are not truthful with our customers. All revenue from ROF go to making more planes and covering other usual expenses related to ROF development like bug fixes, servers, contractors etc. We did not take money from ROF to work on BOS. As I have stated many times money from 1C is funding BOS development.



Jason

[Little_D]

Hi gents,

i will wait too till i get some ingame reports from my online friends that i trust. when they say me in middle august that the dm/fm is ok, the multiplayer is working like we had it in 1946 and have it in CoD and there is a BoS Server ( ATAG, SOW, WoP, etc.).

i will buy it ( if there is still the possebillity to buy it with preorder to get on the server in august) if not i will wait till the normal server are up.

the promovideo looks cool, but it is what it is a promovideo, nothing more. i watched some other video, in where i could see some landscape in the dawn, different cockpitlights, landinglights :), car convois (where visible from i think about 1000m, maby 4000m away inthe dawn, a flight thrue enemy aaa, etc. and it looks good. From what i saw i would by it now, but looking good is not enough.

some other thing that scares me a little bit is this:

"Players will get to fly historical accurate and richly detailed aircraft with functional cockpits and detailed physics models based on Soviet test pilot reports.", but we will see. i found this in the review from SimHQ.

now to this paymodle and onlinegaming, a question:

so when i buy the big pack to get the FW190 and ATAG as example make a map where F4,G2 and FW190 can be taken, can i still fly this map, even when i have no G2, because i dont by it or spent my onlinetime to a singleplayercampaign to get the G2? or i am forced to by the g2 to play on this map, even when i can take the Fw190, because i have it?

regards

Little_D

[Dutch]

@ Mastiff, I saw those posts myself. I've also been watching, yours, Hooves' and Aborted Man's vids and reports.

We have no idea how long 1C had been funding BoS for prior to the demise of Maddox games late last year, but what I can't really understand is if what Tvrdi says is untrue, how did they get all this together so damned fast?

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea of the technicalities, but how did they get from day 1 to public Alpha demo in 8 months and to Beta testing in less than a year?

That's a genuine question, not a dig by the way.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

@ Mastiff, I saw those posts myself. I've also been watching, yours, Hooves' and Aborted Man's vids and reports.

We have no idea how long 1C had been funding BoS for prior to the demise of Maddox games late last year, but what I can't really understand is if what Tvrdi says is untrue, how did they get all this together so damned fast?

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea of the technicalities, but how did they get from day 1 to public Alpha demo in 8 months and to Beta testing in less than a year?

That's a genuine question, not a dig by the way.

They had the ROF engine, took models and some textures & sounds from the MG sequel and hacked it all together in the alpha.

That takes a lot of coding, modeling and artwork out of the way. Now all they have to do it refine it and add more features and it looks like they are going to have a nice looking sim.

[Dutch]

They had the ROF engine, took models and some textures & sounds from the MG sequel and hacked it all together in the alpha.

That takes a lot of coding, modeling and artwork out of the way. Now all they have to do it refine it and add more features and it looks like they are going to have a nice looking sim.

Mmmmm. Seems to me, that after Cliffs was released and Oleg was no longer around, and the game got such a poor response and lost money, 1C funded both Maddox games and 777 studios to develop a 'Stalingrad' scenario in 'competition' with eachother, and when Ilya mentioned having to reach a 'milestone' by around Sept last year, it was at that milestone point that 1C may have decided to go with 777s development so far, rather than Maddox Games. Pure conjecture of course, but we'll prob never know.

[Foul Ole Ron]

I'd say that 1C were maybe more wary about funding another flight sim after CloD and probably wanted to ditch MG after it was clear that things just weren't going to work out long-term. They probably saw that 777 knew how to operate on a budget and timeline and 777 had to get a proof of concept together by that milestone in order to keep the project alive. I'd say 777 worked their asses off to meet it as this is a very big chance for them given that ROF was on the way down and WW2 is just more popular. I think they'll deliver a better product than MG would with respect to fight modelling and overall quality which is what I look for in a flight sim. MG made so many errors in CloD that I really have no clue how they could match the result to available test flight data and think it was even close to acceptable. ROF had it's problems as well with some Axis planes in particular but the differences weren't all that bad. From a commercial standpoint it looks like a no-brainer decision to me for 1C - 777 will get the product out the door quicker, it'll be better quality [in my opinion anyway] and they know how to monetize it better over it's lifetime.

[Tvrdi]

time will tell

[ATAG_Bliss]

This....plus, there is a chance they will abandon BOS if sales are not superb (like they did with ROF, no fm fixes, much slower production of new stuff etc) and to move on with new jet era sim. This time, they should be honest with their customers. So many ROF customers bought new planes and mods in hope fm fixes will happen...and that money was spent on BOS development.

With me it's not so much about the FM. I hate those debates. I fly sims to have fun etc, even if the performance figures aren't spot on.

To me the biggest downside of ROF was the limitations. In the old IL2 and CloD there is a protocol in place so the server can talk with the client and vice versa. Because of that the sky is the limit on stuff like server commanders, online campaigns, things like ADW/SEOW. This is where ROF always failed.

As the user you are stuck with what you are given. There's no protocol in place for 3rd party to design a campaign setup, a moving dogfight server etc. Thats why clients can talk to the server in Il2/Clod and get responses. ROF has done many things to get a better grasp on the realism side with machine guns that fire at the correct rates now and stuff like that, but as far as game modes go for online and offline you are simply stuck with what you are given. That along with the object limits and MP numbers limit just left a stale repetitious environment.

Granted I know cliffs feels stale from its one semi historical map, but the ability to create whatever type of online system (a protocol system) or offline system is there from the get go. It's just takes people with the time and effort to create it. Since a large majority of the old IL2 modders didn't/don't work with Clod, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place on that front. These tools could be made, but then that would require the new content for TF to be put on hold. That's the catch 22.

So I think if they can get rid of the object limit/AI limit and have 100+ humans in the air, that will be leaps and bounds towards making a good flight sim. But without the ability to let 3rd party do magic with offline and online content/ squad wars/ server commanders etc, it will get stale pretty quick unless the content is free flowing. We've already seen 1000+ AI planes in a mission with clod (search the dot chasers in youtube) so a 50x50 tank battle doesn't really impress me that much. Now have a 100x100 battle with 30 AI in the air, a mission with 3000+ static objects, and 100+ humans in the same server and we are getting somewhere.

So I'm very interested on that front. But if MP masks what they currently have in ROF, it will be a huge dissapoonent for MP fans. We can only wait and see what they come up with or if they can expand/unrestrict the DN engine.

[Tvrdi]

I hear you Bliss. Regarding FM. Ofcourse, FM cant be perfect. After all for ww1 planes we have some confusing infos ( tests with battle worn planes, with wrong fuel bla bla). Then many docs and infos are missing. BUT. On example, If a Camel can catch an albie, if pfalz acts like fekin heli, if pups overclimbs an se5a etc....those are serious fm innacuracies and it can ruin historicall missions in mp. I wouldnt like to see a zeke catching a p47 right? And No of usable units in mp is also an important part of recreating historicall missions. Thats whats all about in " hardcore" sims. Otherwise, we can all play ww1 like or ww2 like planes with ufo fms in endless furballs which is how (more or less) ROFs MP looks alike now...

[Foul Ole Ron]

Yep I'd agree with that - they need to be broadly right at the very least in my opinion. ROF did throw up some oddities though the same [and more] can be said about CloD before TF started tearing it to pieces. I'm hopeful that this time around 777 learned the lesson from before with ROF and either use the right approach to start off with or are open to revision if they're clearly wrong. I have a bit of concern about the captured plane test flight date collected by the Soviets on German aircraft but if it ties in with other data from the German side then it'll be ok.

Hopefully this time they've also made it a bit simpler to adjust FMs as well as with ROF I have to think it wasn't easy for them as it would have placated a lot of people if they could have made the necessary changes. But whatever about ROF there's going to be 10 times more scrutiny in BOS about FMs, etc. so I think they'll definitely be looking to get it right to make their own lives easier if nothing else. Time will tell I suppose how it all works out.