PDA

View Full Version : New DeWilde Ammunition



Catseye
Aug-04-2013, 23:54
Hi Guys,
It took some time but I just wanted to post a little teaser. The DeWilde ammunition has been modeled incorrectly for quite some time and now it has been re-engineered to historical values at this beta - repeat beta stage.

Tests will be underway shortly by TF for the complete next update and the DeWilde will be included in these tests.

Here are a couple of pics.

Cheers,
Catseye

34863487

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-05-2013, 00:25
Hi Guys,
It took some time but I just wanted to post a little teaser. The DeWilde ammunition has been modeled incorrectly for quite some time and now it has been re-engineered to historical values at this beta - repeat beta stage.

Tests will be underway shortly by TF for the complete next update and the DeWilde will be included in these tests.

Here are a couple of pics.

Cheers,
Catseye

34863487

Thanks to Catseye and Colander for their work on this issue.

This will be coming as a part of the weapons and damage review.

indyscout
Aug-05-2013, 00:40
I don't normally fly red, so I was not aware there was an issue with the DeWilde rounds.
What is wrong with them, do they not make things burn?

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-05-2013, 02:41
I don't normally fly red, so I was not aware there was an issue with the DeWilde rounds.
What is wrong with them, do they not make things burn?

The issue was that they didn't flash when they hit, there was not the characteristic incendiary ignite. Instead there was a puff of smoke.

The second element is the degree of damage they do, this was revised by the original developers down from being too damaging, (in the first edition of the vanilla game) to being almost completely ineffective. (in the last versions of the vanilla game) We are working to find the sweet spot in the middle. :thumbsup:

This is among quite a number of weapons issues being examined, as for example, the too heavy tracer smoke on the German 20mm, to the lack of minen geschoss in the 110's.

Kling
Aug-05-2013, 04:23
Beautiful!!!!

ATAG_Lewis
Aug-05-2013, 05:42
Very Good Work Fellas...I'm in awe!!!

Dutch
Aug-05-2013, 09:27
Catseye mate, you're my saviour!! :D

I'd heard about this a while ago of course, but couldn't be bothered changing all my loadoouts, as I've always used 50/50 AP and DeWilde in all a/c. I was happy to put up with fewer kills owing to the DeWilde probs. Recently, I've been heard to comment that 'My guns are firing cheese.' Or words to that effect. :D

I can now look to the future with hope, that my kill rate will at least double after this next patch. However, I will not be taking any bets. :recon:

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-05-2013, 09:42
Great work, Cats! :thumbsup:

kopperdrake
Aug-05-2013, 10:21
Catseye mate, you're my saviour!! :D

I'd heard about this a while ago of course, but couldn't be bothered changing all my loadoouts, as I've always used 50/50 AP and DeWilde in all a/c. I was happy to put up with fewer kills owing to the DeWilde probs. Recently, I've been heard to comment that 'My guns are firing cheese.' Or words to that effect. :D

I can now look to the future with hope, that my kill rate will at least double after this next patch. However, I will not be taking any bets. :recon:

I'm with you Dutch - that's pretty much my loadout as well, so it turns out I'm not such a bad shot after all, I'm just firing blanks!

Bounder!
Aug-05-2013, 10:26
Nice to see aircraft properly burning, will we see more of this in the upcoming patch for both red & blue? Would be great in the future to ignite leaking fuel from planes.

Thanks, Bounder.

Macro
Aug-05-2013, 13:30
almost completely ineffective??? that makes up 50% of my ammo at the moment lol happy days.

guess i should change for now....

Hubert Bigglesworth
Aug-05-2013, 13:57
Great News. Well done guys !!!

Hub S!!

Catseye
Aug-05-2013, 17:10
The issue was that they didn't flash when they hit, there was not the characteristic incendiary ignite. Instead there was a puff of smoke.

The second element is the degree of damage they do, this was revised by the original developers down from being too damaging, (in the first edition of the vanilla game) to being almost completely ineffective. (in the last versions of the vanilla game) We are working to find the sweet spot in the middle. :thumbsup:

This is among quite a number of weapons issues being examined, as for example, the too heavy tracer smoke on the German 20mm, to the lack of minen geschoss in the 110's.

Just to follow up on what Buzzsaw just said about the minen-geschoss, I removed the heavy tracer smoke and it was finally a pleasure to see the rounds exploding.

Cheers,
Cats . . .

Catseye
Aug-05-2013, 17:18
Great work, Cats! :thumbsup:
Thanks Snapper,
But . . . . . a team effort with Colander's collaboration we managed to get it to do what it is supposed to do . . . . comtact flash, set fires, make holes, kill crew.

Cheers,
Cats . . . .

Catseye
Aug-05-2013, 17:25
Nice to see aircraft properly burning, will we see more of this in the upcoming patch for both red & blue? Would be great in the future to ignite leaking fuel from planes.

Thanks, Bounder.

Hi Bounder,
Aircraft catching fire and burning as you see in my pic has always been there. The problem was hitting them with the appropriate incendiary round to make it happen. It required a tracer/incendiary round either Red or Blue to start the fires with the fuel tanks.

The difference between the DeWilde round and a tracer/incendiary round is that the DeWilde round ignites on impact while the tracer/incendiary round has a phosphor ignition as it leaves the barrel of the gun - thereby being somewhat depleted on arrival at the contact point if shot from too far away.

Cheers,
Cats

VO101_Tom
Aug-05-2013, 17:40
The issue was that they didn't flash when they hit, there was not the characteristic incendiary ignite. Instead there was a puff of smoke.

The second element is the degree of damage they do, this was revised by the original developers down from being too damaging, (in the first edition of the vanilla game) to being almost completely ineffective. (in the last versions of the vanilla game) We are working to find the sweet spot in the middle. :thumbsup:

This is among quite a number of weapons issues being examined, as for example, the too heavy tracer smoke on the German 20mm, to the lack of minen geschoss in the 110's.

Hi. Can you tell me, TF will review the accuracy of the weapons too?

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-05-2013, 17:46
Hi. Can you tell me, TF will review the accuracy of the weapons too?

Yes, Catseye has looked at the dispersion for most weapons types.

As mentioned, we are also looking at damage modelling.

Kling
Aug-05-2013, 17:56
Just to follow up on what Buzzsaw just said about the minen-geschoss, I removed the heavy tracer smoke and it was finally a pleasure to see the rounds exploding.

Cheers,
Cats . . .

Can we see a video of this Catseye? I always disliked the visual effect of the minengeschoss in the game. The explosion was bigger than the targets sometimes... shouldnt it just be a big quick flash and just a little bit of smoke?!
Awesome work
Regards

VO101_Tom
Aug-05-2013, 18:01
Yes, Catseye has looked at the dispersion for most weapons types.

As mentioned, we are also looking at damage modelling.

Thanks. Good to hear it. :thumbsup:

Broodwich
Aug-05-2013, 20:58
Any word on whether you can set trails of leaking flammable liquids on fire? Or on whether other things besides fuel will be flammable?
Looking forward to it!

LG1.Klein
Aug-06-2013, 08:57
The issue was that they didn't flash when they hit, there was not the characteristic incendiary ignite. Instead there was a puff of smoke.

The second element is the degree of damage they do, this was revised by the original developers down from being too damaging, (in the first edition of the vanilla game) to being almost completely ineffective. (in the last versions of the vanilla game) We are working to find the sweet spot in the middle. :thumbsup:

This is among quite a number of weapons issues being examined, as for example, the too heavy tracer smoke on the German 20mm, to the lack of minen geschoss in the 110's.

To be perfectly honest when I read this I immediately thought," great more love for the red planes and here we are in the 110 still lacking m-geschoss". Thank you for making me remove my head from my ass before I had the knee jerk reaction of posting something inflammatory.

In an odd way the too heavy tracer smoke fix makes me more happy than getting m-geschoss. It'll be nice to see what I'm aiming at while firing lead.

Keep up the good work guys and I'm really excited for this next patch. LOD fix, new 110 variants, and the above mentioned fixes. All on my short list of need to be fixed items are being addressed.

The final item for me would be to improve the largely useless as anything other than an observer tailgunner I'm stuck with.

Plt Off JRB Meaker
Aug-06-2013, 09:45
Fantastic work Catseye :thumbsup:,you guys are really spoiling us rotten................not that we're complaining mind you:D

Little_D
Aug-06-2013, 10:00
As mentioned, we are also looking at damage modelling.

this sounds promising, hope we will get lost of the main dm problems for both sides. the main thing that interests me about the dm is, will the good shooters / good pilots from both side get an advantage from the dm changes?
thereb nobody can say:" oh no a blue winer again". i will explane it from the red side view :) will a good shooter and good pilot flying a spit / hurricane that aimed right and is in the convergence range (its a targeted kill, i mean the pilot knows exactly when he opens fire he will hit at this spot where he aimed for and put there the maximum of damaged into the section ( with lead corection wile fireing) has the possebillety to brake the wing off? or will the fire and pray pilots from more than 500m can breake a wing off with 2 ore 3 lucky hits too ? in the moment it is it makes no different if a good shooter/ pilot or a spray and pray pilot hit the wing of 109 both can do only damaged to the water coller or maby they get the aileron off.

the reduced smoke from the 20mm is what i love the most on this patch + the LOD-fix, greate job :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

1 question, please :-) :

what is with this damn headshaking when fireing the 20mm? it is to mutch to in this game the view shakes more than when i am drive with full speed, with an non suspended bicycle over a street with cobble plaster, i will ruin my ball`s but my view will not shake like this.

regards

Little_D

Dutch
Aug-06-2013, 10:08
when i am drive with full speed, with an non suspended bicycle over a street with cobble plaster, i will ruin my ball`s but my view will not shake like this.

:)

:thumbsup:

ATAG_Colander
Aug-06-2013, 10:11
when i am drive with full speed, with an non suspended bicycle over a street with cobble plaster, i will ruin my ball`s but my view will not shake like this.

Now try that while 4 cannons are shooting in your front wheel :)

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Aug-06-2013, 11:36
what is with this damn headshaking when fireing the 20mm? it is to mutch to in this game the view shakes more than when i am drive with full speed, with an non suspended bicycle over a street with cobble plaster, i will ruin my ball`s but my view will not shake like this.


lol. maybe not. but the handle-bars sure will, and anything else that is attached to them.

Royraiden
Aug-06-2013, 11:43
Looking great, this patch will surpass the first release from what I have been seeing.Really happy for Team Fusion being so involved with this sim and giving us so much hours of enjoyment.

Royraiden
Aug-06-2013, 11:50
this sounds promising, hope we will get lost of the main dm problems for both sides. the main thing that interests me about the dm is, will the good shooters / good pilots from both side get an advantage from the dm changes?
thereb nobody can say:" oh no a blue winer again". i will explane it from the red side view :) will a good shooter and good pilot flying a spit / hurricane that aimed right and is in the convergence range (its a targeted kill, i mean the pilot knows exactly when he opens fire he will hit at this spot where he aimed for and put there the maximum of damaged into the section ( with lead corection wile fireing) has the possebillety to brake the wing off? or will the fire and pray pilots from more than 500m can breake a wing off with 2 ore 3 lucky hits too ? in the moment it is it makes no different if a good shooter/ pilot or a spray and pray pilot hit the wing of 109 both can do only damaged to the water coller or maby they get the aileron off.

the reduced smoke from the 20mm is what i love the most on this patch + the LOD-fix, greate job :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

1 question, please :-) :

what is with this damn headshaking when fireing the 20mm? it is to mutch to in this game the view shakes more than when i am drive with full speed, with an non suspended bicycle over a street with cobble plaster, i will ruin my ball`s but my view will not shake like this.

regards

Little_D
Regarding your question I dont see any problem with shooting at convergence and not getting the most concentrated damage possible or the other way around. Also you can already break wings off planes
( mostly the poor Hurri:-P) if you fire at convergence hitting the wing root and the bandit is pulling high G's or had a damaged wing before being hit. There are a few variables needed for this to happen, so it is really difficult to replicate at will.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-06-2013, 13:23
The final item for me would be to improve the largely useless as anything other than an observer tailgunner I'm stuck with.

Looking at that, no guarantees.

Catseye
Aug-06-2013, 15:10
Can we see a video of this Catseye? I always disliked the visual effect of the minengeschoss in the game. The explosion was bigger than the targets sometimes... shouldnt it just be a big quick flash and just a little bit of smoke?!
Awesome work
Regards

Hi Kling,
I can't give you a video at this time but I hope these two pics in sequence will help.
Cats . . . 35003499

Plt Off JRB Meaker
Aug-07-2013, 03:21
Wow......fantastic Catseye

Kling
Aug-07-2013, 06:27
Hi Kling,
I can't give you a video at this time but I hope these two pics in sequence will help.
Cats . . . 35003499

Sorry bud i must be stupid...
What exactly am I looking at there?
Is the left photo the current effect and the right photo how it will look in release 2?
The smoke trails from the cannons still look pretty thick no??
Or maybe I just need to see a photo of how it looks now to compare...
What exactly is being worked on?
The smoke trails or the explosion when the round hits the target?? (Or misses for that sake as well)
Sorry if I seem stupid haha

Best regards
Kling

9./JG52 Ziegler
Aug-07-2013, 07:44
Yeah Kling, the right side is the less explosive NAI version. Really amazing the details that are even available. Sitting on the ground and firing a couple M-gesloss and you can see them burst like grenades in the distance, in silence, then a half second later, the sound booms in. It is these/this attention to detail that is what hooked us all in the first place I venture to say. Thank you Cat's and all the TF guys for your selfless labors on this sim. I salute you all :salute:

PS: Roy, Never say you feel sorry for "poor hurri's" when regarding damage model. I have seen that blasted thing take more damage (and keep flying) than any other plane! But, my judgement may be biased after nearly emptying an E1's guns into one, and having it happily continue on, then taking 2 (count em) hits from his mate (from extreme left field) and having my rads pierced! :-P :)

Kling
Aug-07-2013, 09:14
Yeah Kling, the right side is the less explosive NAI version. Really amazing the details that are even available. Sitting on the ground and firing a couple M-gesloss and you can see them burst like grenades in the distance, in silence, then a half second later, the sound booms in. It is these/this attention to detail that is what hooked us all in the first place I venture to say. Thank you Cat's and all the TF guys for your selfless labors on this sim. I salute you all :salute:

PS: Roy, Never say you feel sorry for "poor hurri's" when regarding damage model. I have seen that blasted thing take more damage (and keep flying) than any other plane! But, my judgement may be biased after nearly emptying an E1's guns into one, and having it happily continue on, then taking 2 (count em) hits from his mate (from extreme left field) and having my rads pierced! :-P :)

Ah cool but will they still produce a bright flash when hitting its target like seen in so many guncam videos?

Headshot
Aug-07-2013, 12:21
The hit flashes are some thing I've always found fascinating in some of the old ww2 gun cam footage. Will be great to see it in COD

Royraiden
Aug-07-2013, 13:09
Yeah Kling, the right side is the less explosive NAI version. Really amazing the details that are even available. Sitting on the ground and firing a couple M-gesloss and you can see them burst like grenades in the distance, in silence, then a half second later, the sound booms in. It is these/this attention to detail that is what hooked us all in the first place I venture to say. Thank you Cat's and all the TF guys for your selfless labors on this sim. I salute you all :salute:

PS: Roy, Never say you feel sorry for "poor hurri's" when regarding damage model. I have seen that blasted thing take more damage (and keep flying) than any other plane! But, my judgement may be biased after nearly emptying an E1's guns into one, and having it happily continue on, then taking 2 (count em) hits from his mate (from extreme left field) and having my rads pierced! :-P :)

From what I have seen, the Spits seem to take a lot more damage than the Hurricanes , I think a burst of 20mm shells hitting the wings and fuselage should get that plane down or at least do some critical damage but more than once me and my squad mates have hit Spits from point blank with good solid canon bursts and they keep on flying.The hurricanes brake off a lot easier, might be due to their construction but still, too much difference in my opinion.

Little_D
Aug-07-2013, 14:16
From what I have seen, the Spits seem to take a lot more damage than the Hurricanes , I think a burst of 20mm shells hitting the wings and fuselage should get that plane down or at least do some critical damage but more than once me and my squad mates have hit Spits from point blank with good solid canon bursts and they keep on flying.The hurricanes brake off a lot easier, might be due to their construction but still, too much difference in my opinion.

Hi Royraiden,

same view from my side, most of the times you can give a spit a good solid canon burst, into the wing and the only thing that happens sometimes, is that you can see the weel comes out and even than it looks out from the coockpit, that they still are able to turn and manover like they are not realy damaged, it looks only not so easy to control anymore but still able to make the normal manovers. in the last tracks i run without getting kicked i count by most shoots when i was aiming for the wing of the spit about 4 - 6 20mm hittingflashes ( all minengeschosse) in an a square about 60cm big. i dont know if it is only a grafic special ore if it shows the real impact from 4 - 6 20mm bullets but not taking all bullets to count for the damaged the spit get in his wing.

and yes i fly only with minengeschosse, because brandgranate, brandsprenggranate and panzerbrandgrate makes no sence, when 90% of your fights is against a plane that dont burn. my historical belt, before i notice that incendary ammo is usless against spit was:

3x Minengeschoss, 2x Brandgeschoss, 1x Panzerbrandgeschoss and this is perfect against all planes in CoD exept spitfire.

regards

Little_D

Gromit
Aug-07-2013, 15:25
From what I have seen, the Spits seem to take a lot more damage than the Hurricanes , I think a burst of 20mm shells hitting the wings and fuselage should get that plane down or at least do some critical damage but more than once me and my squad mates have hit Spits from point blank with good solid canon bursts and they keep on flying.The hurricanes brake off a lot easier, might be due to their construction but still, too much difference in my opinion.

It's not the construction , it's the damage model, the Hurricane was the most robust single engine aircraft in the BoB, renown for bringing it's pilots back despite considerable damage , in this game its made of cardboard and biscuits!

The wings and tail fall off with little effort (utter nonsense in reality),and if you damage it it's almost unflyable, having to limp back to base is par the course for Hurricane pilots!

The flight models a mess too, but hopefully the patch can address some of that!

Gromit
Aug-07-2013, 15:30
Hi Royraiden,

same view from my side, most of the times you can give a spit a good solid canon burst, into the wing and the only thing that happens sometimes, is that you can see the weel comes out and even than it looks out from the coockpit, that they still are able to turn and manover like they are not realy damaged, it looks only not so easy to control anymore but still able to make the normal manovers. in the last tracks i run without getting kicked i count by most shoots when i was aiming for the wing of the spit about 4 - 6 20mm hittingflashes ( all minengeschosse) in an a square about 60cm big. i dont know if it is only a grafic special ore if it shows the real impact from 4 - 6 20mm bullets but not taking all bullets to count for the damaged the spit get in his wing.

and yes i fly only with minengeschosse, because brandgranate, brandsprenggranate and panzerbrandgrate makes no sence, when 90% of your fights is against a plane that dont burn. my historical belt, before i notice that incendary ammo is usless against spit was:

3x Minengeschoss, 2x Brandgeschoss, 1x Panzerbrandgeschoss and this is perfect against all planes in CoD exept spitfire.

regards

Little_D

Goes for the 109 too Little, I rarely see my victims go down despite riddling them with gunfire, multiple hits seem to cause no degradation in the flying ability, unless you kill the pilot you generally get a report of a kill when they crash land or bail out 5 mins later when the engine overheats, venting cooling systems seems to be about all .303 is good for most of the time, so the 109 DM needs looking at too!

UpsilonCrux
Aug-07-2013, 15:55
It's not the construction , it's the damage model, the Hurricane was the most robust single engine aircraft in the BoB, renown for bringing it's pilots back despite considerable damage , in this game its made of cardboard and biscuits!

The wings and tail fall off with little effort (utter nonsense in reality),and if you damage it it's almost unflyable, having to limp back to base is par the course for Hurricane pilots!

The flight models a mess too, but hopefully the patch can address some of that!

Before I got back into CloD, I watched a couple of different documentaries on YT and such, and yeah, these guys were saying the Hurri was a solid little plane and perhaps a more stable gun platform than the Spit.

Guess which plane I learned....
I'd been wondering why I've rarely, if ever seen a Hurri being piloted on the server.
I'd simply blamed my own ineffectualism, so it's somewhat re-assuring to hear this!
Back to flight-school for me for now then!

Gromit
Aug-07-2013, 16:01
There's a few diehards flying the Hurricane through bloody mindedness rather than logic, most try it once or twice then discard it as too inferior, bit like the G50 really, which is a shame!

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-07-2013, 16:13
Salute

The FM and damage model of the Hurricane will be revised for Release 2, which should make it more competitive.

Little_D
Aug-07-2013, 17:06
Goes for the 109 too Little, I rarely see my victims go down despite riddling them with gunfire, multiple hits seem to cause no degradation in the flying ability, unless you kill the pilot you generally get a report of a kill when they crash land or bail out 5 mins later when the engine overheats, venting cooling systems seems to be about all .303 is good for most of the time, so the 109 DM needs looking at too!

hi Gromit,

absolutly right. 1 of main problems with 109 DM, the cooler is solft. Long before i was thinking, ok they can kill your cooler at every distance, at any angles, with a single lucky shot/bullet. But with a good salvo at convergence with multible hits from 8 guns in the same section they cant rip my wing off. never get a wing shot of from a spit/hurrie, but it is easy to take of the wing from 109 with the 2 nose mg`s and mutch easyer with the 20mm, even easer than taking the wing from a hurrie off :). and this is not the first time i wrote this.

both sides have the same problems when it comes to 109 and spit, hurrie is not a problem. even with a long good placed salvo into 1 smal section of the wing ( it must be the right section ) you cant rip a wing off, ore make so mutch damaged that with the next high pressure load the wing brake off. its more like a lotterie to rip a wing of from spit and 109.

but i think we will get with this and the next release a mutch better DM and damaged FM that is more realistic than this we have now. i need only to look what TF found out about the hittingsection for the cooler of the 109 in the code and i bet they will find a lot more :) and i am the first that is happy when it is possible that a spit/ hurrie can take off my wing, with a good aimed burst ( gives an other good reason that it is a bad thing when you have six :) ), but please not with the dm the cooler in the 109 has in the moment :)

regards

Little_D

Kling
Aug-07-2013, 17:15
hi Gromit,

absolutly right. 1 of main problems with 109 DM, the cooler is solft. Long before i was thinking, ok they can kill your cooler at every distance, at any angles, with a single lucky shot/bullet. But with a good salvo at convergence with multible hits from 8 guns in the same section they cant rip my wing off. never get a wing shot of from a spit/hurrie, but it is easy to take of the wing from 109 with the 2 nose mg`s and mutch easyer with the 20mm, even easer than taking the wing from a hurrie off :). and this is not the first time i wrote this.

both sides have the same problems when it comes to 109 and spit, hurrie is not a problem. even with a long good placed salvo into 1 smal section of the wing ( it must be the right section ) you cant rip a wing off, ore make so mutch damaged that with the next high pressure load the wing brake off. its more like a lotterie to rip a wing of from spit and 109.

but i think we will get with this and the next release a mutch better DM and damaged FM that is more realistic than this we have now. i need only to look what TF found out about the hittingsection for the cooler of the 109 in the code and i bet they will find a lot more :) and i am the first that is happy when it is possible that a spit/ hurrie can take off my wing, with a good aimed burst ( gives an other good reason that it is a bad thing when you have six :) ), but please not with the dm the cooler in the 109 has in the moment :)

regards

Little_D

Never read that 303 could take wings off... if u have any combat reports stating that i would be happy to see them.
Not saying u are wrong but i just never read that anywhere.

Little_D
Aug-07-2013, 17:27
Never read that 303 could take wings off... if u have any combat reports stating that i would be happy to see them.
Not saying u are wrong but i just never read that anywhere.

Hi Kling,

i never red this too, but when it is possible in the game to rip a wing from 109 with the 2 nose mg`s from the 109, than it should possible for 8 mg`s from the Hurrie and spit too.

on the other side what happend in real life to a 109 wing if the ammo storage from the 20mm is hit with severel bullets and let the ammo explode?. i think the explosion should rip the wing of or make so mutch damaged that with the next high pressure load the wing rip off.

regards

Little_D

vranac
Aug-07-2013, 18:44
hi Gromit,

absolutly right. 1 of main problems with 109 DM, the cooler is solft. Long before i was thinking, ok they can kill your cooler at every distance, at any angles, with a single lucky shot/bullet. But with a good salvo at convergence with multible hits from 8 guns in the same section they cant rip my wing off. never get a wing shot of from a spit/hurrie, but it is easy to take of the wing from 109 with the 2 nose mg`s and mutch easyer with the 20mm, even easer than taking the wing from a hurrie off :). and this is not the first time i wrote this.



Cooler was very soft spot on 109 and Spit and Hurri, I don't dig in the DM files but some other guys did.DM in this sim is far away from all other flight sims.
Where you hit its recorded , with great precisioin also, every part can be counted to the fourth decimal position.
And this are the parts

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/2Q/4p/XAs2Hso/full-14230-16808-damaget.png

And of course there is water rad damage also.

Guys they modeled two separate damages for every cannon or MG that you have and every cilindar of the engine and they missed water radaiator ?

:)

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-07-2013, 19:27
Never read that 303 could take wings off... if u have any combat reports stating that i would be happy to see them.
Not saying u are wrong but i just never read that anywhere.

Don't have the source available at the moment, but I have seen reports of Stuka wings being sawn off by .303's. And no reason to doubt if a a concentrated and sustained burst hit a 109 main spar, there quite likely could be wing loss, especially if the wing was under G loading. The 109 was quite lightly built, single main spar. As far as larger bombers, never read anything about wing loss due to .303's, frames in these aircraft are much heavier.

Predominantly though, combat reports talk of aircraft being set on fire, and smoking, followed by crashes or bailouts.

Report of 110 tail coming off after burst, and under G loading:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/hurricane/richey-pg76.jpg

Wulf
Aug-07-2013, 20:18
Never read that 303 could take wings off... if u have any combat reports stating that i would be happy to see them.
Not saying u are wrong but i just never read that anywhere.

In August '42 the Generallluftzeugmeister issued technical instructions regarding the maximum permissible speeds for the bf 109 following a number of accidents involving wing breakages.

It had been determined that these accidents typically followed excessive diving speeds and as a consequence the permissible indicated speeds were reduced. In the cases noted there is no mention that the aircraft had suffered battle damage prior to the wing failures. I mention this because one doesn't have to exercise too much imagination to understand what might happen to the wing of a 109 that was already under extreme stresses, if either the main spar or torsion box structure behind the leading edge became perforated by a burst of .303 rounds. Specialist ammo aside, any .303 ball round would easily pass right through the wing structure of a 109. In these circumstances where the wing was already under stress, the weakening of the underlying airframe could reasonably be expected to result in catastrophic failure.

Broodwich
Aug-08-2013, 00:33
Predominantly though, combat reports talk of aircraft being set on fire, and smoking, followed by crashes or bailouts.


Yeah no kidding, which is why I've been so disappointed with how hard it is to light planes on fire. More than just fuel burns!

LG1.Klein
Aug-08-2013, 08:57
There's a few diehards flying the Hurricane through bloody mindedness rather than logic, most try it once or twice then discard it as too inferior, bit like the G50 really, which is a shame!

The Hurricane pilot, our kindred spirit on the red side. I truly have the most fun when my squad comes across another squad of Hurricanes. We are outclassed by the Hurricane but it is a close enough fight to make it fun.

Plt Off JRB Meaker
Aug-08-2013, 10:20
There's a few diehards flying the Hurricane through bloody mindedness rather than logic, most try it once or twice then discard it as too inferior, bit like the G50 really, which is a shame!

Yep,diehard bloody minded Hurricane pilot here from day one Gromit,no shame however,just proud,lol :)

kopperdrake
Aug-08-2013, 10:35
Another Hurri pilot from day one here too - not so much die-hard bloody minded, I just lack the stash of rationed brylcreem I'd need to fly a Spitfire :P

Bunny