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EG14_Marcast
Aug-07-2013, 10:55
I would like to try some online bombing mission, just to make some action :). I’d like to know what I have to expect from my AI gunners, as I think that I will become a sort of magnet for fighters. What’s their online skill setting?

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Aug-07-2013, 11:19
Skill setting changes depending on whether or not you are in the bomber, or the fighter.

If you fly the bobmer, the AI gunners will be set to "useless-lazyass-brats"
However, if you're in the fighter, suddenly they switch to "awesome-sniper-man"

:P

EG14_Marcast
Aug-07-2013, 12:00
Skill setting changes depending on whether or not you are in the bomber, or the fighter.

If you fly the bobmer, the AI gunners will be set to "useless-lazyass-brats"
However, if you're in the fighter, suddenly they switch to "awesome-sniper-man"



I see....then exactly the same as offline...

Zisi
Sep-09-2013, 13:47
That being said, nothing stops you from jumping to the gunner position while in flight. Though you would be best off requesting an escort from one/more of the other players on the server, generally most anyone is willing to help!

ATAG_Knuckles
Sep-09-2013, 14:10
o.k. heres the deal, with the Belnheim that is. I have NEVER had my gunner do any damage to an attacking fighter.

Now say that you can join anyone one flying a Blenheim as their gunner or bomb aimer. I have a separate joystick programed for the Blennie gunner position.

and have ridden that position many time with someone else flys: and I have yet been able to inflict any damage on an attacking fighter

so A.I or live no difference. Now is that due to my crappy shooting skills or the puny single .303 vickers "dont know" ???

Bear Pilot
Sep-09-2013, 15:46
o.k. heres the deal, with the Belnheim that is. I have NEVER had my gunner do any damage to an attacking fighter.

Now say that you can join anyone one flying a Blenheim as their gunner or bomb aimer. I have a separate joystick programed for the Blennie gunner position.

and have ridden that position many time with someone else flys: and I have yet been able to inflict any damage on an attacking fighter

so A.I or live no difference. Now is that due to my crappy shooting skills or the puny single .303 vickers "dont know" ???

Knuckles, convergence on the lewis gun is critical and I think it's a detail that is often overlooked. I set mine to 230m so roughly 250 yards which is my convergence for all red fighters so I have a good idea of when the opposing fighter is at about the right distance. I was once told that the gun needed to be set at 1000/1000 to avoid random jamming. Turns out the jamming was caused by the bug that prevents the gun from firing if climbing or descending at 5 m/s or more.


For a long time I found myself unable to hit anything either. Even when the 109's would rub it in my face and come to almost point blank range chattering away with their mg's while I had fired off a whole drum and was killed while waiting for it to reload.

Since making the convergence change and adopting a strategy of short (and hopefully) accurate bursts, from long range to hopefully hit the engine/water radiator and maybe the pilot, I have been much more successful.

Before making the change, assuming I was flying solo with no escort, I would say I had roughly a 100% death expectancy and the 109 was free to fly away like nothing had happened. Now, at least 90% of the time, assuming he doesn't kill my gunner outright, I hit his water radiator. I have killed 4 attacking pilots outright. Unfortunately, since we're sitting at computers and not in real planes, suffering fatal damage from a single lewis gun in the back of a relatively slow lonesome bomber tends to royally piss off attackers and often come back firing everything they've got until either I go down or he goes down.

With a human gunner the survival rate does go up, as often, we can time the break if the gun is being reloaded and adjustments to give the gunner a good field of view is far easier. Thrown in an escort and Blenheim drivers finally have a fighting chance. Obviously there is safety in numbers.

ATAG_Drock and I have claimed many 109's using teamwork and great communication. It all starts with the right convergence though.

With a separate joystick set up for the gunner's position, you could be deadly :thumbsup:

ATAG_Knuckles
Sep-10-2013, 16:24
Not sure how convergence works on a single gun though ???

I do have a separate profile for the Blen turret for my joy stick which is a hoot.

Bear Pilot
Sep-10-2013, 18:32
Not sure how convergence works on a single gun though ???

I do have a separate profile for the Blen turret for my joy stick which is a hoot.

Horizontal will obviously do nothing. Vertical is what makes a difference. Just like adjusting the rear sight on a rifle. The higher the rear sight is raised off the barrel, the higher the trajectory of the bullet will travel assuming the sight is kept on the same spot down range....so the bullet will miss high. Whether there is an actual adjustment animation on the lewis gun or not in game, I don't know. I don't think so, though. Nonetheless, the vertical trajectory of the gun will change based on what you plug into it.

So all you really need to know is this:

1. Go into the weapon sets to change convergences just like you would a fighter, only for the Blenheim.

2. There should be two available to adjust. One is obviously the forward firing gun, the second is the lewis gun.

3. It sounds like it might still be on default so if it is I would recommend changing it to a value close to what you use in fighters. This is important because it's much more a "feel" to the distance than the reticle sight. Assuming you set it pre-flight to a certain distance and wing length.

I do so mostly for those long shots to get them to break and I do so so I don't waste ammo but also because I know it's the perfect time to fire. Many water radiators have been taken out with less than a half second burst by putting as many bullets as possible into one spot on a running 109. :-)

But that's another topic.

1lokos
Sep-10-2013, 18:53
Turns out the jamming was caused by the bug that prevents the gun from firing if climbing or descending at 5 m/s or more.

Errr, not a bug, a requested "feature" (UbiZ00 wishes). :D

Sokol1

Bear Pilot
Sep-10-2013, 19:12
Errr, not a bug, a requested "feature" (UbiZ00 wishes). :D

Sokol1

Whatever floats your boat.

Wulf
Sep-10-2013, 20:22
Knuckles, convergence on the lewis gun is critical and I think it's a detail that is often overlooked. I set mine to 230m so roughly 250 yards which is my convergence for all red fighters so I have a good idea of when the opposing fighter is at about the right distance. I was once told that the gun needed to be set at 1000/1000 to avoid random jamming. Turns out the jamming was caused by the bug that prevents the gun from firing if climbing or descending at 5 m/s or more.


For a long time I found myself unable to hit anything either. Even when the 109's would rub it in my face and come to almost point blank range chattering away with their mg's while I had fired off a whole drum and was killed while waiting for it to reload.

Since making the convergence change and adopting a strategy of short (and hopefully) accurate bursts, from long range to hopefully hit the engine/water radiator and maybe the pilot, I have been much more successful.

Before making the change, assuming I was flying solo with no escort, I would say I had roughly a 100% death expectancy and the 109 was free to fly away like nothing had happened. Now, at least 90% of the time, assuming he doesn't kill my gunner outright, I hit his water radiator. I have killed 4 attacking pilots outright. Unfortunately, since we're sitting at computers and not in real planes, suffering fatal damage from a single lewis gun in the back of a relatively slow lonesome bomber tends to royally piss off attackers and often come back firing everything they've got until either I go down or he goes down.

With a human gunner the survival rate does go up, as often, we can time the break if the gun is being reloaded and adjustments to give the gunner a good field of view is far easier. Thrown in an escort and Blenheim drivers finally have a fighting chance. Obviously there is safety in numbers.

ATAG_Drock and I have claimed many 109's using teamwork and great communication. It all starts with the right convergence though.

With a separate joystick set up for the gunner's position, you could be deadly :thumbsup:


Hi

Just so we don't simply repeat incorrect information, the MG fitted in the mid-upper turret of the Blenheim is actually a Vickers Gas Operated, also known as a Vickers 'K' gun. It is not a Lewis.

The weapon has a very high cyclic rate (up to 1200 rounds per minute) and was developed with aircraft use in mind. Essentially it's intended to put as much lead in the air as possible, in the fastest possible time, for the least amount of weight. It was typically phased-out as the War went on in favour of the .303 Browning, but would sometimes be used in tandem with Brownings in beam gun positions.

As has already been mentioned, the term 'convergence' cannot be applied to the operation of a single MG. In stead, we use the term 'sighted-in'. This will involve the adjustment of the sights to ensure that the weapon is reliably striking at target at a pre-determined range.

On the subject of air gunner effectiveness, the reality is that a bomber, even a heavily armed bomber, is most unlikely to survive a combat with a single seat fighter. The notion of the self-protecting bomber, which became all the fashion during the 1920s and 1930s, ended abruptly for the RAF during the Battle of France. At that point it became glaringly obvious that daylight bombing in the face of a properly organised air defence was simply suicidal. After getting shot out of the air in droves, RAF Bomber Command was forced to concede that day bombers simply couldn't defend themselves effectively against determined fighter attack. At this point all raids into Germany (that is to say, raids which were beyond the range of escort fighters) had to be switched to night operations. Medium and low level bombing continued, both day and night, but the rate of attrition was extremely high if not prohibitive until late in the War when German air defences were completely overwhelmed. In the case of RAF Coastal Command, strike aircraft were lost at a rate of almost 90% up until 1943. When the US began it's bombing campaign in the same year it was done on the basis of the already discredited notion of the self-defending bomber. However, like the RAF, The 8th Air force soon found that bombers simply couldn't operate by day over Germany unless escorted.

Bear Pilot
Sep-11-2013, 12:54
On the subject of air gunner effectiveness, the reality is that a bomber, even a heavily armed bomber, is most unlikely to survive a combat with a single seat fighter. The notion of the self-protecting bomber, which became all the fashion during the 1920s and 1930s, ended abruptly for the RAF during the Battle of France. At that point it became glaringly obvious that daylight bombing in the face of a properly organised air defence was simply suicidal. After getting shot out of the air in droves, RAF Bomber Command was forced to concede that day bombers simply couldn't defend themselves effectively against determined fighter attack. At this point all raids into Germany (that is to say, raids which were beyond the range of escort fighters) had to be switched to night operations. Medium and low level bombing continued, both day and night, but the rate of attrition was extremely high if not prohibitive until late in the War when German air defences were completely overwhelmed. In the case of RAF Coastal Command, strike aircraft were lost at a rate of almost 90% up until 1943. When the US began it's bombing campaign in the same year it was done on the basis of the already discredited notion of the self-defending bomber. However, like the RAF, The 8th Air force soon found that bombers simply couldn't operate by day over Germany unless escorted.

We know this. All bomber pilots in the game know when they take off there's often a higher chance they won't survive than one they will. If you're caught anywhere except within a few miles of a friendly coast without escort and alone, often you're a dead man flying the moment you're spotted. You're only realistic chance of surviving is to evade on the deck. Which, surprisingly, is often effective. Particularly in a Blenheim over France as it tends to blend into the countryside well.

My point is, in regards to the Blenheim, we more or less have a pea shooter in the rear turret so it might as well be an accurate instrument of miniscule cylindrical vegetable hurling. Correctly sighting the gun to a comfortable and effective distance is a step I believe to be often overlooked as being unimportant. In my experience, this, in conjunction with firing at opportune moments and evading while reloading as well as good communication between pilot and gunner assuming there are two in the plane, has greatly improved the number of attacking fighters brought down.

This does not mean I am not also shot down. Most of the time I am. The big improvement is that now I take down the fighters with me. Every once in a blue moon a fighter that attacks my Blenny gets away to fight another day. However that is the exception instead of the norm.

Gromit
Sep-15-2013, 07:49
Considering how vulnerable bombers are I would think putting all player flown aircraft gunners on ace status would be acceptable!

Got to give these guys a fighting chance, at the moment they are just targets!