PDA

View Full Version : BoS at Gamescom 2013



322SQN_Dusty
Aug-26-2013, 05:01
S!

Just wanted to point out the BoS Alpha information on the il2 forum. Also holds pictures and movies made by me during a meeting with Loft and Jason in the 777/1C media stand.

BoS at Gamescom 2013 (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1088-gamescom/)

III./ZG76_Saipan
Aug-26-2013, 05:14
an estimate that its only 10% increase of system requirements compared to RoF.

that doesn't sound very impressive

322SQN_Dusty
Aug-26-2013, 05:27
All systems used for showing at GamesCom were leased. The specs of the used machines will be announced. Because it's ALPHA the only thing i can say..didn't notice strange things during flying with it. BoS is made to fly on a full range of systems.

III./ZG76_Saipan
Aug-26-2013, 05:48
thats what worries me, hope for best prep for the worst

322SQN_Dusty
Aug-26-2013, 06:37
Well using a system almost identical to yours (HD 6970 2gb and 16Gb Viper 3) i'm not that worried about performance.

The systems used during the Hornet presentation could be something different.

So, who has seen BoS running could gather those specs to give an idea of the Alpha version?

III./ZG76_Saipan
Aug-26-2013, 07:46
Well using a system almost identical to yours (HD 6970 2gb and 16Gb Viper 3) i'm not that worried about performance.

The systems used during the Hornet presentation could be something different.

So, who has seen BoS running could gather those specs to give an idea of the Alpha version?


I'm actually worried the bar will be too low, not high.

322SQN_Dusty
Aug-26-2013, 07:56
Too low? As in: it looks like () on full settings because of the lower needs?

vranac
Aug-26-2013, 08:21
Too low?

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1B/Pe/3JtQGmQ8/laggkabina.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo41/ka1ros/CloD/shot_20120629_122809.jpg~original (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/ka1ros/media/CloD/shot_20120629_122809.jpg.html)

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/2S/RL/3xS1Ccto/1/bf109f42.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo41/ka1ros/CloD/G2.jpg~original (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/ka1ros/media/CloD/G2.jpg.html)

322SQN_Dusty
Aug-26-2013, 08:58
Haven't seen it running on full res with all postprocess aa msfaa or other fancy on. It's still Alpha, so i can't really compare. Just have a look at the other forum..the 109 also has the wire to the connector in those..

vranac
Aug-26-2013, 09:46
Cockpits that you saw its what you'll get. Loft was asked would they include hi-res textures in the settings for the cockpit for users with stronger PCs.
Answer was no.

Another question about shadows:

Loft


FataLLex, on 16 Aug 2013 - 23:40, said:

Albert, if possible can clarify about the shadows in the cockpit, now in the game, they have the final form or will be improved in the future?


We'll leave the setting, but the improvement of the current that we have already shown on a typical PC will be noticeably blunt, ie it will only be for high-end computers.

Оставим настройку, но улучшение от текущего что мы показали уже на типовом PC будет ощутимо тупить, т.е. это будет только для мощных компьютеров.

By the way gfx card ~100 EUR (6850, 7770, gtx560...) runs cockpits from CloD without any problem. 2014 that will be ~70 EUR.
What are they optimizing for ?

Skoshi_Tiger
Aug-26-2013, 10:27
Guess the proof of the pudding will be in it's eating!

I wonder how big our air battles will be able to get before it affects our performance?

Hooves
Aug-28-2013, 11:28
Vranac you crack me up, comparing a 720 livestream picture to a high res screenshot, then pretending that you actually want us to believe that is what it will look like on full hd settings. Give me a break dude. Forget the fact that Ive seen and played it and the Cockpits are beautiful. I hope that I get to up against you in the opening days of release, you'll be so busy taking screenies on all low settings to post on these forums that you'll be an easy kill. ;)

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-28-2013, 11:57
Let's please keep the tone of this thread respectful, everyone. The topic is BoS, but this is still the ATAG Forum.

Thanks in advance,

Snapper

vranac
Aug-28-2013, 12:18
Well why don't you ask Loft and Jason for hi-res screenshots. They were asked by others with no response. Maybe because the details are more noticeable at 1920.

If you don't see the difference between hi-res textures and low-res ones on the same cockpit, thats good for you but other people can.
Just to remind you on earlier discussion, I'll repeat some Loft's words for you:


Loft

FataLLex, on 24 May 2013 - 22:39, said:

The cabin is good of course, but the texture can be seen in some places that the WIP. And you can ask how many textures (and what format) to the cab go? 1x 4096x4096 + 1x 4096x4096 - on the instruments? And one more question if you can not expect the shadows in the cockpit of the quality of what is BOB?

At the cabin, yes,on the instruments size of the textures are lower. Do not expect it.


Loft

carsmaster, on 26 May 2013 - 11:20, said:

It's a pity of course, that the developers have not yet responded to questions from page 5 post number 172.

I hoped you'll see it in an avalanche of discussion.

Another question is this:

Is there are now already possibility in the code of the game of including the use of high-resolution textures for the land, and cockpits.?

A simplified analogy is like in IL-2 to include the use of textures 1024 (now to be others, 4096).

Ie. option for the user to enable higher resolution if he has "hardware resources" for it.

It is assuming that it will be the next step in the development of the sim, it is necessary to create a texture, I know.

But now interested in the possibility of that in future options (if not running at the beginning)

Thanks for the reply.

No, there are several reasons, some technical, some logical. But doing something prozapas and just in case this is the most unprofessional of non-professional positions. There are the primary audience, the project is being done for them, there is some percent who have the PC wich cost one hundred thousand with samolepny joystick with 38 axles, someone who is more convenient to play upside down. All are not satisfied, so the emphasis on the core audience. This is the inheritance of the mods, they do not carry liability.

But that isn't the most important thing, the real question is how much ground objects and units wil be supported in online play.
If that stays arround RoF level it will be just WT with better FM. That was also confirmed by Loft when he was asked about possibility to make online wars and campaigns.


Edit: Sorry Snapper, I was typing the post already.

Chivas
Aug-28-2013, 13:14
Only a 10% increase in system spec is fairly good considering there is so much more detail in a WW2 sim than a WW1 sim.

I can't see the developers creating cockpit textures/resolution that will make the gauges difficult to read.

The developers have said that they have increased the amount of objects and aircraft available in online missions.

Apparently there has recently been some optimizations made by the BOS developers that have been applied to ROF in its latest patch.

Like Skoshi_Tiger stated the proof will be in the pudding, but I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the BOS development crew, considering how quickly they created a decent ROF game engine. Sure it had flaws, but none that couldn't be addressed with further work. Much like the huge improvements the TF team is creating in the COD game engine.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-28-2013, 13:54
Salute

Those screenshots look pretty good to me. Gloomy Russian winter and all that means gloomy cockpits.... :P

I'm sure the game will run well and will be worthwhile playing. :thumbsup:

Tvrdi
Aug-28-2013, 17:11
By the way gfx card ~100 EUR (6850, 7770, gtx560...) runs cockpits from CloD without any problem. 2014 that will be ~70 EUR.
What are they optimizing for ?

Its true only up to 1680x1050....Im struggling at 1920x1200 with GTX660Ti with most settings to medium...

Honestly, cockpits looks nice in ROF and in BOS...yes, they are not detailed as in CLOD (they are DX9 btw) but they look good enough...there are other, more important things which makes a good sim.....I will wait with purchase, because I want to see what will be out of it...how it will deal with MP (NO of units, online wars, COOPs etc), will they make good FMs......willl they fix em if needed....how will be with purchasing things..I dont weant to pay for fekin weapon mods, just to be (more) competitive in MP...etc etc...

Archie
Aug-29-2013, 03:33
I'm hoping when they show the 109 today the cockpit will look better than the screenshot above.I was impressed with the LaGG, but the 109 cockpit looks very 'flat' compared to the CoD 'pit in pics I have seen so far.I have preordered, but I am still waiting to be convinced.
But, as said above, if they haven't increased the object limit by a huge amount...

vranac
Aug-29-2013, 06:27
Its true only up to 1680x1050....Im struggling at 1920x1200 with GTX660Ti with most settings to medium...



Tvrdi, you need fast CPU also. I'm talking that from the experience of my friends. One is running Phenom @3.6 GHz and gtx460 at 1600 res almost everything on max ( just bought better mobo to put it on 4 GHz). Other one have FX 4100 @ 4 GHz and 6850 at 1920 res and he says just, smoooth.

Look at this tests how the game runs on different CPU and GPU frequencies.


I looked at the dynamics of the growth rate of FPS with increase of cpu and gpu core.

cpu 3,9: gpu core 953, gpu mem 3004: 66,122,16
cpu 4,2: gpu core 953, gpu mem 3004: 72,179,17
cpu 4,4: gpu core 953, gpu mem 3004: 72,163,15, 72,162,14, 72,169,15
cpu 4,6: gpu core 953, gpu mem 3004: 73,159,13, 73,155,15, 73,177,16
cpu 4,6: gpu core 953, gpu mem 3004: 74,164,14, 73,168,15, 72,168,16

cpu 4,6: gpu core 1045, gpu mem 3105: 75,158,14, 75,152,17
cpu 4,6: gpu core 1149, gpu mem 3206: 77,159,17;
===================
cpu OC +300 MHZ (7,7%) => 66 -> 72 = 6fps = 9%
cpu OC +500 MHZ (12,8%) => 66 -> 72 = 6fps = 9%
cpu OC +700 MHZ (17,9%) => 66 -> 74 = 8fps = 12%
===================
gpu core +92 Mhz (9,6%), mem +101 Mhz (3,3%) => 73 -> 75 = 2fps = 2,7%
gpu core +197 Mhz (20%), mem +196 Mhz (6,5%) => 73 -> 77 = 4fps = 5,4%
===================
+18% Cpu => + 7fps = + 10,6%;% for each increase in the frequency we gain 0.588% of base fps.
+20% Gpu => + 4fps = + 5,4%;% for each increase in the frequency we gain 0.27% of the base fps.

In total, an increase in frequency by 18% cpu and gpu core 20% were fps growth of 16.6%.
CloD is more sensitive to frequency cpu, rather than the performance gpu. Well, taking into account the reliability of testing methods playing track is The Black death


Sorry for offtopic, but someone can find it interesting.

=BKHZ=Furbs
Aug-31-2013, 18:23
couple of shots from the feed...

http://imageshack.us/a/img35/3633/ejb4.png

Nice refection from the snow under the wing...

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/2453/3l5m.png


http://imageshack.us/a/img856/6325/rubl.png

vranac
Aug-31-2013, 18:43
About those official screenshots, I noticed some strange effects on reflections.
Like someone was hammering the wings and other surfaces on the planes. No one noticed that ?

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/o/vo/2xJ34xCL/il22013082208.jpg
http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1L/oH/3U0MLlTl/post-7693-0-54811600-137.jpg
http://www.dodaj.rs/f/r/Sz/4bytSOdm/109-refleks.jpg

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/M/3f/2PzWpxz0/33333333333333333333333b.jpg

Does anyone knows , are they trying to make reflections with bumpmapping ?
I really don't know anything about that, just asking, but those surfaces should be smooth and reflect the sunlight at certain angle without distortions.

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/2d/8y/1DjBZk5L/pe2il10.jpg

=BKHZ=Furbs
Aug-31-2013, 19:19
I think its all to do with the angel you catch the plane at and the sunlight at the time, the real pic you show there of the Pe2 looks like its been taken on a cloudy day not bright winter sun shine, plus that aircraft looks like its been sitting there a long time and the paint has lost its reflection.

Hooves
Aug-31-2013, 20:06
@Vranac, Have you ever run your hands over the wing surface of an old WWII fighter? I have and you can feel those bumps and imperfections you are talking about. I really don't get it man, you are foaming at the mouth to trash this game? why?

vranac
Sep-01-2013, 06:58
Furbs, flat surface doesn't reflect sunlight like that. Picture of Pe-2 is there just to show the wing is flat.

@Hooves , I actually live a few km from this place. What is wrong in constructive criticism ?
Those reflections are wrong.

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/0/Cr/3Sipih0x/11909974178007dscf0492.jpg

http://www.muzejvazduhoplovstva.org.rs/?jez=eng&id=1


http://www.muzejvazduhoplovstva.org.rs/editor_slike/me109_3.jpghttp://www.mjrv.mod.gov.rs/pages_files/parter_files/partexpo/il2_files/images/il2-010.jpg
http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1T/1P/4yznDtNX/82627232958d985110f7b.jpg

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1L/7m/4Yz5cxZt/113650pic-0217.jpghttp://www.mjrv.mod.gov.rs/pages_files/parter_files/partexpo/jak3_files/image/jak3-08.jpg
http://www.muzejvazduhoplovstva.org.rs/editor_slike/spit_V-1.jpg

And probably the last G.50 in the world waiting for restauration, unfortunately.

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/c/zM/293ls2Sa/11365069517235g50bisbeog.jpg

And FW190

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/3V/yH/1INUJMTy/113650208551464avioninet.jpg

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/2R/4k/2aCNH7xW/113522178781345g.jpg

No wrinkles on the wings .

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1f/Li/EGahPW9/363805506451dbcae5c1o.jpg


http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r595/Shtele/Tehnicki%20Muzej%20Berlin/IMG_4292.jpg~original (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/Shtele/media/Tehnicki%20Muzej%20Berlin/IMG_4292.jpg.html)
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r595/Shtele/Tehnicki%20Muzej%20Berlin/IMG_4279.jpg~original (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/Shtele/media/Tehnicki%20Muzej%20Berlin/IMG_4279.jpg.html)

322SQN_Dusty
Sep-02-2013, 10:14
Take a look at the roundel of the Spitfire wing, also a small effect is seen on the spinner and nose of the 109.

It's still a simulation and i'm fine with the work done so far. Enjoyment of detail will always be dependend from taste and liking. As long it doesn't shine and reflect too much like a neon sign..Here I am...

Still Alpha.

vranac
Sep-02-2013, 15:05
Dusty, that blue paint is highly reflective and practicaly mirrors the windows behind.

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/2u/pt/jNAkqGD/rundela.jpg

Wing shouldn't look like that.

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/3j/IK/1ZdZu4lK/pe2-krilo.jpghttp://www.dodaj.rs/f/2s/a1/4D2r9Hlx/dscn-1368811245.jpg


And finaly someone else noticed that and they started the discussion on the Russian forum.


With me was the sister-in-law, behind my back she saw the video with Messer, long and carefully watched. Noted for reflection on the wing emblem, gloss painted metal, asked why the wings are slightly wrinkled , Noted that the right side does not whistle and the left whistling something had to explain. Donned headphones on her head, sat in a chair and when Messer, after the run, pulled away from the concrete runway and went to the set, she quietly and without rancor rugnuvshis "complained" to the goose bumps and clutched the arm. In a moment of contemplation her corkscrew said and bl be possible. Test for Ochumelye ochucheniya passed on excellent, full body immersion in a virtual cockpit. The developers are going the right path! Thank you, again, for the new format of Fridays!

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/554-obsuzhdenie-30-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/page-6&usg=ALkJrhgbnf53qmfNRWcV9elN-s4wRMAtWQ#entry52800

Developers also joined later and called this "nit-picking for the sake of nitpicking".
Look at the posts from Wotan, he is respectable member with lot of knowledge and material from WW2 and he allready convinced devs to change the dials on the instruments because they were wrong.


[I.B.]Zulu, on 02 Sept 2013 - 12:42, said:


Hmm, I do not see much of such catastrophic diversity from duralumin sheets manually made.


"Manually made duralumin sheets" what is it? How the process looked like and where was applied?

Mabroc
Sep-02-2013, 16:49
Look at this google search for WWII fighters High resolution images:

https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=wwii+fighters+high+definition&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=TVH&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hPMkUtyRJpfe4AOw6oFY&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=980&bih=545#q=wwii+fighters&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbs=isz:lt,islt:2mp

I saw in person some WWII and Korea time planes (F-86 Saber, Gloster Meteor, Ju-52, Avro Lincoln) not very well preserved (so no excellent polished modern paint, waxed or museum replicas) and they had slight wrinkles, not so many and not so uniformely distributed like in the BoS images, but close to that.

For example http://0.tqn.com/d/militaryhistory/1/0/r/B/-/-/P-51D-Mustang.jpg look around the cockpit and engine area.

Look around the wings, MGs, engine radiator cover, etc http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2788/4063077906_830707b5ac_o.jpg
Even in the Spitfire behind you can see some wrinkles, but not on the near P-51, because like I said before, depends on the restoration, paint and like other says how much reflection you get on the metal.

I think between the riveted construction, the high stress on the metal, and the not necessary top notch factory work everywhere everytime, wrinkles happens.

Hooves
Sep-02-2013, 20:27
Look at this google search for WWII fighters High resolution images:

https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=wwii+fighters+high+definition&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=TVH&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hPMkUtyRJpfe4AOw6oFY&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=980&bih=545#q=wwii+fighters&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbs=isz:lt,islt:2mp

I saw in person some WWII and Korea time planes (F-86 Saber, Gloster Meteor, Ju-52, Avro Lincoln) not very well preserved (so no excellent polished modern paint, waxed or museum replicas) and they had slight wrinkles, not so many and not so uniformely distributed like in the BoS images, but close to that.

For example http://0.tqn.com/d/militaryhistory/1/0/r/B/-/-/P-51D-Mustang.jpg look around the cockpit and engine area.

Look around the wings, MGs, engine radiator cover, etc http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2788/4063077906_830707b5ac_o.jpg
Even in the Spitfire behind you can see some wrinkles, but not on the near P-51, because like I said before, depends on the restoration, paint and like other says how much reflection you get on the metal.

I think between the riveted construction, the high stress on the metal, and the not necessary top notch factory work everywhere everytime, wrinkles happens.



Yes, wing stress and pounding on the wings and rivets, makes a slightly un even surface. Paint also makes the look seem "bumpy"

Vranac, Its not "wrong" at all It is a fact that these planes were not perfectly smooth surfaces. You can even see it in some of the reflections on the photos you posted (which most were in the shade btw) But beyond that, the style of reflections in the Digital Nature engine, is different to what you are used to apparently. Its funny that you say you hate them but the majority of people seem to like them very much. To each his own I guess.

Dutch
Sep-02-2013, 21:55
It's way overdone on the Pe2 shot, not quite as bad on the 109.
Yep, I've seen real aircraft surfaces look like that, but they've normally been static beat up relics kept outdoors at a museum. As a visual effect in a PC game it's interesting, and if they tone it down a bit it'll be fine. That Pe2 looks ridiculous though, so I agree with Vranac on that one. The 109 I could live with, but then again, I don't fly 'em. :D

By the way Hooves, what was all the big fuss about different reflections from wood and metal? Everyone saying 'Wow! Amazing!!'??

Take a look at this screenshot.

4002

Tvrdi
Sep-03-2013, 04:50
Tvrdi, you need fast CPU also. I'm talking that from the experience of my friends. One is running Phenom @3.6 GHz and gtx460 at 1600 res almost everything on max ( just bought better mobo to put it on 4 GHz). Other one have FX 4100 @ 4 GHz and 6850 at 1920 res and he says just, smoooth.

Look at this tests how the game runs on different CPU and GPU frequencies.




Sorry for offtopic, but someone can find it interesting.

I have i7920 CO set at 3.65 Ghz...I think that should be enough...no i dont want to mess up with voltages just to run game engine which is poorly optimized...im hoping TS will improve things there
The problem with sim communities is agendas, hard-sick fanboysm and BIAS...therefore there are just ppl who love sims and will just point good and bad things about sim products...all in hope it will get fixed so we can have better use of them...

like me...


sry

322SQN_Dusty
Sep-03-2013, 07:41
We will see what they make of it. Perhaps a slight dimmer version..COULD be more realistic, but nice work so far.

Bling bling P51 outside (http://airwingspotter.com/hall-of-fame-photos/_mg_3741-2/)

Picture credit Airwingspotter.com

kopperdrake
Sep-03-2013, 12:16
They just need to turn down the bump/normal mapping and it'll be fine. It's just a texturing cheat to portray a manufactured or weathered look, and it's been over-done. Wouldn't take much to lose it - 5% of what they have would look decent imho :)

vranac
Sep-04-2013, 09:19
They just need to turn down the bump/normal mapping and it'll be fine. It's just a texturing cheat to portray a manufactured or weathered look, and it's been over-done. Wouldn't take much to lose it - 5% of what they have would look decent imho :)

Not so shure. Loft finally answered where is the problem. I have to say, very honest answer, like always, on every direct question.
Most of you guys are missing a lot of details and precise answers from the Russian forum.


I agree Wotan. All is credible and doable and reason is not in our unwillingness or in the lack of knowledge, but only in the technology. T.e because we can not allow texture material with higher resolution. And currentlly the boundaries between high and low are very sharp. This effect we decided to simulate, your suggestions are feasible but not for us now.
But after the release artists will have more opportunity to try to achieve better result when they'll have more time.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=sr&tl=en&u=http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/554-obsuzhdenie-30-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/page-9&usg=ALkJrhievW-kDyaz6I8oken99mU2KFQtKw#entry53260

Chivas
Sep-04-2013, 12:39
Good answer, and a point many of us miss, because of our lack of patience, and/or forethought. This is the great thing about a sim "series", many aspects/features can be improved for the addons, and merged/applied to previous theaters.

322SQN_Dusty
Sep-05-2013, 05:17
Most of you guys are missing a lot of details and precise answers from the Russian forum.



Ohw...

Hooves
Sep-06-2013, 19:50
Cool article about BOS and Oculus

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09/06/best-of-gamescom-il-2-sturmovik-and-oculus-rift/

Talisman
Sep-07-2013, 10:53
4061

Hooves
Sep-12-2013, 01:44
4061

That is one BA picture dude! added it to my desktop photo slide show, Cheers!

Talisman
Sep-12-2013, 14:32
That is one BA picture dude! added it to my desktop photo slide show, Cheers!

Glad you like it. I used it as my screen saver for a long time. Just draw in a line between the two aircraft and it looks like the Spit is pulling the Typhoon on a tow rope, LOL.

It shows the different paint surfaces well I think.

Happy landings,

Talisman