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AKA_Recon
Sep-04-2013, 13:40
I might get boo'd out of the forum for this, but I was thinking last night that often times on the ATAG server , AI bombers are typically flying unescorted - which seems rather unrealistic.

I would like to propose that every time a new bomber group spawns, that we spawn a few fight escorts with the bombers (for both sides). I think that would make it more challenging and more realistic.

Thoughts ?

ATAG_Headshot
Sep-04-2013, 13:48
I personally hate having AI fighters in the game as they have completely different FMs and can do things no player planes can. To me it really would wreck things online. I think a better approach would be to have objectives that reward escorting bombers. Some maps like this are already being worked on/considered I think. If I know AI fighters are in a spot I will be staying away.

Bear Pilot
Sep-04-2013, 14:40
I personally hate having AI fighters in the game as they have completely different FMs and can do things no player planes can. To me it really would wreck things online. I think a better approach would be to have objectives that reward escorting bombers. Some maps like this are already being worked on/considered I think. If I know AI fighters are in a spot I will be staying away.

I agree. If escorting bombers had an impact on the mission I think they would receive far more attention. Right now they are just bait/something to look at until opposing fighters show up to intercept them. To me, unless I'm extremely bored or feel like trying my luck against crack-shot gunners, there are other more enjoyable things. Either bombing objectives myself, or with any luck in a group of human flown planes, or escorting humans. Perhaps a frei jagd here or there.

Like I said, if AI bombers made a difference, I think they would be the main show. I know they would for me at least.

Happy Hunting

Bear Pilot

AKA_Recon
Sep-04-2013, 17:45
I think a better approach would be to have objectives that reward escorting bombers. Some maps like this are already being worked on/considered I think. If I know AI fighters are in a spot I will be staying away.

I thought the reward is they are bombing the objectives that the side has to accomplish aren't they ? If not, not sure what they do :)

But ok, if you guys don't care, then I'll just keep shooting them down - that is the British objective is to prevent England from being bombed on just about every mission!

It's just very unreal for bombers to be flying unescorted to England - at least in the North American timezone, we don't get the numbers like Europe does.

I think personally some of the issue is the 109's carrying bombs can do all the work without needing bombers on the ships - I think I'd remove that plane if it was up to me - either use the Stuka's or the 110's. If 109's can do all the objective without bombers, why would they protect them ?

ATAG_Headshot
Sep-04-2013, 17:53
In many of the maps the AI bombers don't actually bomb the game winning objectives which I think is part of the reason that they are often ignored. The thig is that to me personally AI fighters really take a lot of the fun out of the game. I don't know how many others feel that way but the whole reason that I play online is to have humans to fight against, otherwise I would just play offline.

Bear Pilot
Sep-04-2013, 19:53
In many of the maps the AI bombers don't actually bomb the game winning objectives which I think is part of the reason that they are often ignored.

This.

Also, after dropping their bombs but before turning for home, they often do a victory lap or two over Kent just asking to be shot down. :doh:

ATAG_Deacon
Sep-04-2013, 21:03
I might get boo'd out of the forum for this, but I was thinking last night that often times on the ATAG server , AI bombers are typically flying unescorted - which seems rather unrealistic.

I would like to propose that every time a new bomber group spawns, that we spawn a few fight escorts with the bombers (for both sides). I think that would make it more challenging and more realistic.

Thoughts ?

Have you played the latest version of "Home Plate"? I was dropping on a formation of bombers, which turned out to be 9 x Me 110's...and was quickly engaged by the 9 x Me 109's flying escort. The 110's were at 20k feet and the 109's came down from approximately 24k feet. Needless to say it was AWESOME! I could care less if AI 'flies different' than a human opponent, I was way too busy to notice. BTW, I got the s*^t kicked out of me in that fight.


The thig is that to me personally AI fighters really take a lot of the fun out of the game. I don't know how many others feel that way but the whole reason that I play online is to have humans to fight against, otherwise I would just play offline.

Headshot, I normally feel the same way. There are a lot of times that there are very few players online so having some AI available in limited numbers keeps me coming back. If there are only 5-10 people flying it can get pretty boring pretty quick. I think Salmo has some script in Home Plate that accounts for the number of players in the server before spawning AI. I'm not too sure, but he could answer that better than I.

:thumbsup:

~S~

Deacon

AKA_Recon
Sep-05-2013, 00:06
I recall that mission when it first came out and it was very fun. I haven't seen it since. Not sure the status.

And I agree on numbers, the reality is, in NA timezones, when we fly around 9:30 EST until midnight at times, we have a very sparse crowd

ATAG_Headshot
Sep-05-2013, 00:24
Ya the script salmo was working on for putting in some AI when almost no players are on I don't mind as much. The other problem though is when you run into a flight of 9-18 as a single player... And when there is almost no one on at those times you will most likely be only 1-2 people together. Yes large flights were historical but the reality is we will not be able to field that many players coordinated together at once almost ever, so the huge AI flights are just overpowering.

Zisi
Sep-09-2013, 12:51
Needless to say it was AWESOME! I could care less if AI 'flies different' than a human opponent, I was way too busy to notice. BTW, I got the s*^t kicked out of me in that fight.

Personally, I don't want the AI to present much of a danger, If I see a fighter I want to know it's a human. I'd prefer there not to be any AI fighters, one can play with AI offline. As others mentioned if the bomber groups actually bombed objectives, then I think players would be all over them, more than they already are.

All that being said, I'm not sure I fully agree with the OP. Despite the bombers not playing any role in map objectives on nearly any map players seem to be all over the bombers whenever they spawn. They know that they can generally find a fight there, even when the server is sparsely populated. The reason for this I think is that the objectives on too many maps are too far inland, too far apart, and no stats are recorded anywhere for completing most objectives. This incentivises people to just go randomly dogfight, shoot down bombers, and not protect objectives (because odds are nobody would be there to defend against anyway).

The result is that maps generally expire without either side winning. I think this is the real issue, while pure dogfighting is fun, I'd really like more to be fighting over something.

AKA_Recon
Sep-09-2013, 14:15
Personally, I don't want the AI to present much of a danger, If I see a fighter I want to know it's a human. I'd prefer there not to be any AI fighters, one can play with AI offline. As others mentioned if the bomber groups actually bombed objectives, then I think players would be all over them, more than they already are.

All that being said, I'm not sure I fully agree with the OP. Despite the bombers not playing any role in map objectives on nearly any map players seem to be all over the bombers whenever they spawn. They know that they can generally find a fight there, even when the server is sparsely populated. The reason for this I think is that the objectives on too many maps are too far inland, too far apart, and no stats are recorded anywhere for completing most objectives. This incentivises people to just go randomly dogfight, shoot down bombers, and not protect objectives (because odds are nobody would be there to defend against anyway).

The result is that maps generally expire without either side winning. I think this is the real issue, while pure dogfighting is fun, I'd really like more to be fighting over something.

I think there is much merit in what you are saying here - I agree!