DCS WW2 Kickstarter is live [Archive] - The Air Tactical Assault Group - Team Fusion

View Full Version : DCS WW2 Kickstarter is live

Bounder!

Sep-05-2013, 13:46

The kickstarter is up for DCS WW2

link http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944

and Oleg Maddox is involved!

Really excited about this project, here's hoping they are successful!

[edit] here is a link to the DCS forums for more info:
DCS WW2 Europe 1944 Forum

(http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=294)

Welcome to DCS WWII: Europe 1944, the start of an exciting new flight simulation series!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/378/9a53dd8e0105c71b15eb4690b06f9c49_large.jpg?1371623 335
Legendary flight simulation designers Oleg Maddox, Ilya Shevchenko, and Igor Tishin, are excited to bring you a new WWII flight simulation for the PC. Built by industry veterans with the same approach that made the famous flight sims of the past great, and in partnership with the experts at the Fighter Collection and Eagle Dynamics, the simulation aims to satisfy seasoned aces as well as attract new pilots to the genre.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/234/2b27a4702cbb414ffa940258c5c7941a_large.jpg?1373377 679
With unparalleled attention to detail, our developers have decades of experience with aerial combat simulations. We are famous for our ability to make our games fun while maintaining unwavering dedication to historical realism. We can do it because relatively simple WWII-era aircraft do not require extensive training, and nimble controls and simple weapons naturally lead to fast-paced close-quarters battles.
We want to open a new page in WWII combat simulations. We also strive to recapture everything that made famous flight simulations of the past great, starting with a thick spiral-bound manual and comprehensive training, and ending with great free-for-all multiplayer. But we cannot do it without your help!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/380/463d004d403bf03aad6d3c736b26b5eb_large.jpg?1371623 381
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/220/a26c66f15382a54f8b1184d9624c9d83_large.jpg?1373377 268

Detailed recreations of famous WWII aircraft.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/154/bcb1dc81e822337372041f03fe585c31_large.jpg?1373375 788

Meticulous modeling of individual aircraft systems.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/157/4742b4c541ac12d4efcfe11d7dbdfb4d_large.jpg?1373375 834

Planes can be flown by following actual historical flight manuals without the need to refer to in-game documentation!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/166/0c69e19fc5e81592d9782e5bb95c7e6e_large.jpg?1373375 928

Huge game world painstakingly recreated from period maps.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/225/d297b738a66e9871e550f20379a3df36_large.jpg?1373377 465

Rich single-player experience recreating famous battles from both sides.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/227/4bffd70ae6bfb41f96d5f15c2ca8c532_large.jpg?1373377 515

Join the German Luftwaffe, or attack Fortress Europe with the British RAF or the US Army Air Force.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/183/30840afa9d12f95c370104b4051ec831_large.jpg?1373376 177

Fight in famous battles like the D-Day Invasion and the Battle of the Falaise pocket.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/230/2e6239b4da54b634c8c3ca2b5d6c3ed5_large.jpg?1373377 550

Join a historical squadron and fly alongside famous aces from both sides.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/177/6ab05d325e5dcb211fbde94d649a0d46_large.jpg?1373376 104

Advanced AI recreates historical tactics and models pilots of varying skill levels, from bumbling rookies to merciless aces.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/182/318dcb930a19e2f0e3e4a1f0c7f19308_large.jpg?1373376 158

Dynamic weather and seasons add a beautiful backdrop and additional challenges to each sortie.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/201/83446a0862156c2e6471af214f5f6679_large.jpg?1373376 643

Comprehensive training system makes the game accessible to people who have never flown before.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/180/5d934b09274a24f0aa3966dd93eebd68_large.jpg?1373376 142

Detailed aircraft manuals explain the specifics of each aircraft, and the realities of historical aerial combat.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/223/a3d6f10d73dc9e1fff040289ef1227e3_large.jpg?1373377 416

Robust multiplayer module provides the ultimate challenge by pitting players against each other in heated large-scale battles.
Powerful mission and campaign editors allow creation of player-made scenarios.
Mission replay system, pilot log book, and other features add to the player experience.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/381/8aaba2972434fc5f1f80c4119c191e7b_large.jpg?1371623 407
Flyable Aircraft:

Republic P-47D-28 Thunderbolt;
Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX;
Messerschmitt Bf-109K-4;
Focke-Wulf FW.190D-9 (from DCS: World);
North-American P-51D Mustang (from DCS: World).

Non-Flyable Aircraft:

Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress;
Messerschmitt Me.262A-1.

Landscape:

Normandy. Area of the historical D-Day Invasion, as well as the extensive preparation and follow-up battles.

Single-Player:

Training campaign for each aircraft;
Luftwaffe Fighter campaign (Bf.109);
British Fighter campaign (Spitfire);
US Ground Attack campaign (P-47).

Multi-Player:

Selection of missions for each aircraft.

Other:

Authentic ground vehicles, guns, and ships;
Authentic historical buildings and landmarks;
Regular content updates.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/383/c0f351a8fae7e1d4c22015ea4641f60f_large.jpg?1371623 430

$100,000

Standard project features

$375,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Hawker Typhoon IB
A flyable FW.190A-5
Single-player campaign for the Typhoon
Single-player campaign for the FW.190

$550,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Douglas A-26B-15 Invader
A flyable Messerschmitt Me.262A-1
Ardennes, new large gameplay map
Single-player campaign for the A-26
Single-player campaign for the Me.262
A Luftwaffe Fighter and a US Fighter campaign for the Battle of the Bulge.

$750,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Lockheed P-38J-15
A flyable de Havilland Mosquito FB.VI
Single-player campaign for the P-38
Single-player campaign for the Mosquito

$1,000,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Boeing B-17
A flyable Luftwaffe plane (Me 410 A or Ju 88, as voted for by the backers)
Romania, new large gameplay map
4 new single-player campaigns for the new aircraft and theaters

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/384/a171febe8390860662da609870c6739d_large.jpg?1371623 448

Realities of the current PC marketplace have a lot of developers moving away from traditional distribution models. The last major release in the DCS line, DCS World, is distributed via a free-to-play model. The core game is available free of charge. We encourage you to check the game out, but keep in mind that the included modern aircraft, like the free Su-25 attack jet, are as different from WWII prop fighters as today’s smartphone from a 1940s Bakelite rotary.
The free to play model allows a wider audience access the core game. It is, in essence, a free demo that allows everyone to try the game before they buy it. At the same time, the model accurately reflects immense development costs attached to historically accurate study sims. Recreating a single historical aircraft to DCS standards is a large-scale project for an entire team of experienced developers, each possessing unique skills. Schedules and budgets for each individual aircraft built to today’s standards are comparable to those for entire games from just a few years ago.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/204/9a998ecea20f2e909114f7ef85dc11c6_large.jpg?1373376 687
The DCS WWII series will start with Europe 1944 and, given enough interest, continue to grow to cover more theaters, more aircraft, and more content. Moreover, its modules will plug into DCS World modules and vice versa, so you’ll be able to fly a 1940s Messerschmitt against a modern Su-25, if you so choose.
DCS: Europe 1944 will distribute via a free-to-play model, with the core game available as a free download! That means that a supporter of ANY level will be able to fly and enjoy this game! The rest of the modules will be available as a separate purchase.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/232/178afb8cca70f663fbfad8e2ab1b8341_large.jpg?1373377 622
The free downloadable version of Europe 1944 will include THREE fully flyable aircraft, each arguably more famous than the next: the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt fighter/ground attack aircraft, the Supermarine Spitfire fighter, and the German Messerschmitt Bf.109G. Non-player-controllable versions of all other aircraft will also be included, allowing the players to see them in action at any time.
Backers at the $20 level or above will receive one more flyable aircraft of their choice, and backers at $40 or above will receive the entire flyable aircraft set.
If we manage to hit our stretch goals and the list of aircraft grows, backing at a $40 level or above will increase in value exponentially, getting you the complete set of launch flyables!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/385/11c6845bb6e720cf5916a40e65be7acc_large.jpg?1371623 467
The project is a joint venture between RRG Studios and Eagle Dynamics.
RRG Studios brings over 10 years of experience with WWII flight simulations to the table. Staffed with flight sim veterans that worked on the greatest WWII flight sim series of the 21st century, we literally wrote the book on the new generation of flight sims.
Eagle Dynamics is the studio responsible for the biggest modern aviation sims of the past twenty years. In-house experts have industry-best experience with physics, avionics, ballistics, and all other components that go into making a successful flight simulation. Eagle Dynamics continues to redefine the genre and continuously sets the bar high with each new release.
The Fighter Collection is the company that manages Eagle Dynamics. It is based in Cambridge, England, and it operates Europe’s largest fleet of airworthy WWII aircraft. The Fighter Collection runs the annual Flying Legends airshow, giving us unprecedented access to the aircraft we simulate.
Oleg Maddox is one of the biggest names in flight sims. A graduate of the world-famous Moscow Aviation Institute, he spent 11 years in the Soviet aerospace industry. He then developed some of the biggest PC games of the Russian market, including unique FPS titles such as Zar and Mad Space. The games offered such innovative features as non-euclidean geometry and speech recognition. Oleg then used their success to focus once again on his childhood obsession with aviation. In 1998 his team began to work on what was to become a smash hit flight sim. The rest is history. Lauded for its unique mix of excitement and realism, Oleg’s work went on to become the biggest and the most award-winning flight simulation of the 21st century. It launched an entire litter of spin-off aerial simulations that continue to this day.
Oleg’s incredible talent lies in his ability to interact with gamers and to translate their desires into game features. Oleg will act as the team’s advisor, distilling the wishes of the fans into design decisions, and making sure they properly translate into something that satisfies the fans today as well as in the long run. As the team’s foremost expert on aircraft performance and WWII history, Oleg will act as the ultimate quality control on the game, ensuring it meets the highest possible standards of both historical accuracy and playability.
Ilya Shevchenko is an industry veteran that worked with Oleg's team since the very beginning. Spearheading community efforts, Ilya led the international team of volunteers that created and expanded the original simulation, took it to new theaters, and eventually ended up producing the biggest most comprehensive collection of flyable WWII aircraft ever created.
Ilya will act as the project’s lead producer. He will take part in all design decisions while managing the day-to-day operations, assigning and tracking tasks, and keeping everyone on their toes. As a member of a relatively small team, Ilya will, as always, dabble in most tasks first-hands, working on the game’s landscapes, building missions, managing voice recordings, and generally making sure things get done.
Igor Tishin is the driving force behind the successes of Eagle Dynamics over the past 20 years. Starting with the smash hit Su-27 Flanker (1995), he led the team that built the biggest successes in modern combat simulations, including Lock-On: Modern Air Combat, DCS: Black Shark, and many others. Long-time friends with Oleg Maddox, both working out of Moscow, Russia, they had a gentleman’s agreement to avoid direct competition by sticking to their own time frames. Igor is now very excited to finally join forces with Oleg and Ilya and to start a new series of WWII flight simulations.
Igor will oversee all engine and flight dynamics work on the project. Putting the same effort into the historical accuracy and realism as he did into the recent DCS: P-51 release, Igor will ensure the new WWII aircraft built for this project will satisfy the most discriminating expert.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/386/cb7fe3e11bf07c4488d821fe8883cc93_large.jpg?1371623 487
First of all, 100% of the funds received will go towards the project.
The money being raised is only a portion of the development budget. The majority of the programming, including engine improvements, new landscape engine, large chunk of aircraft and object programming, some aircraft art, and more, are costs on top of the Kickstarter budget that the team is funding internally.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/891/805/06ffc39784778253e17ffc6017405996_large.jpg?1378397 158
The initial kickstarter goal is needed to fund a longer more extensive beta testing period for the game, giving all its components extra polish, and to make the game landscape more alive by creating a larger variety of ground objects and vehicles, and spending more time to hand-craft various historical areas such as accurate recreations of more coastline villages, important bridges, unique airfields, and more.
The general project funds will be distributed thus:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/388/2942704266e39d9e6c4f9b0cc3f8cbc3_large.jpg?1371623 501
14% will go towards aircraft design, that is, building the 3D models of the planes and cockpits that will appear in the game.
9% will go towards other 3D models, which include buildings, vehicles, ships, guns, bombs, and other objects that populate the game world.
16% will go towards landscape design, that is, building the large historical game map or maps.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/891/807/0ea8a38c31145b4c63b003d0f9d104d5_large.jpg?1378397 199
14% will go towards a multitude of other development tasks such as GUI design and other art, sound recording, music, and a trip to Duxford for two lucky programmers for an up-close-and-personal encounter with the aircraft being modeled.
10% will go towards dedicated aircraft programmers.
12% will go towards the overhead, including office rent, electricity, computer hardware and upgrades, and the cheapest office chairs the store around the corner will have.
5% will go towards single- and multiplayer mission design.
Finally, out of the remaining 20%, approx. 9% will go towards Kickstarter and transfer fees. Another 10% or so will be spent manufacturing, shipping, and otherwise providing our backers with their Kickstarter rewards.
Now, you ask, what about the schedule?
If we are funded at the basic tier, we will work to have the project finished and available to everyone within 12 months.
If there is enough interest to fund additional stretch goals, the development schedule will also stretch. At the highest tier, all bells and whistles, the project should be ready within 18 months.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/718/591/b2d3e75f371093bb4e2ec2c4ec64950f_large.jpg?1372868 072
Our goal is not just to make DCS WWII: Europe 1944, but to grow the DCS WWII line into a long-running simulation series covering all theaters of WWII, and expanding into other nearby conflicts, such as the Korean War.
We want to keep creating the content that we enjoy creating and that our fans enjoy playing for years to come.
If the kickstarter does not reach some of the stretch goals, but the project is commercially successful, the unreached stretch goals will be our next target. If we are fully funded, new versions of existing aircraft as well other new aircraft, focusing on both existing and new WWII battlefields, are already in our plans.
We want to be able to release regular content updates in the shape of new aircraft, new gameplay maps, new ground vehicles, as well as various feature improvements and additions that keep both the game and the game engine ahead of the curve.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/207/7ad38f4a334b326fb413908bacb817f4_large.jpg?1373376 741
We also plan to turn future commercial success into various free content updates, most importantly in the shape of new historical missions and campaigns that the community can enjoy while waiting for the next aircraft or battlefield.
In general, we see a clear line of communication on the game’s future constantly evolving and changing based on the wishes of the community. It worked well for us in the past. We want to keep the same spirit with DCS WWI, where both immediate and long-term development goals are clearly communicated to the community, and updates in the shape of individual features or larger content packs are regularly released both commercially and for free.
Finally, we have huge plans for the game’s multiplayer component. They are outside the listed kickstarter goals because they are a bit too ambitious to fit into the kickstarter timeframe, and because they also stretch to other products in the DCS line. We feel that multiplayer is a huge part of any flight sim’s success, and with Oleg Maddox and some of his former teammates, we have an incredible team that can both design a great comprehensive approach to multiplayer on paper, and implement it into robust, exciting gameplay.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/732/208/7bcf50f1b425840681381cca03b41d97_large.jpg?1373376 757
Ultimately, we are building a robust multiplayer module that covers all aspects of the spectrum from gratuitous free-for-all to rigid historically realistic cooperative, both centrally- and community-run, with persistent online record-keeping and many other features that keep the online war current and exciting for years to come.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/718/593/0449ebf16bc068f2ddf313d0782818b3_large.jpg?1372868 087
The following aircraft will appear in the game:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/718/602/6be22dc8384722f2c0770d3c6781a01e_large.jpg?1372868 250
The Messerschmitt Bf.109, often called Me 109, was the mainstay German fighter of WWII. It served with distinction throughout the war, and new variants with new improvements kept it up to date and competitive all the way until the war’s end in 1945.
The G series 109 modeled in Europe’44 was the most produced of all Bf.109 variants. Many Luftwaffe aces scored a bulk of their kills in the Bf.109G. With a powerful nose cannon, and available underwing gunpods, it could destroy most targets in a single salvo. Its powerful engine, small size and nimble controls also meant it could dogfight on part with any contemporary Allied fighter. However the 109’s inline engine and construction meant that it could not withstand much punishment. Unlike the P-47 Thunderbolt, you really want to avoid getting hit in the Bf.109.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/718/603/a8d89c301a941f49211d8a1caed14953_large.jpg?1372868 275
The Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress was a four-engine heavy bomber, perhaps on the most recognizable aircraft of WWII.
Sturdy, durable, and easy to fly, it could carry a massive payload. Its advanced Norden bombsight meant that bombs would usually find their target. Beloved by the USAAF crewmen who flew it for its ability to limp back home looking like a hunk of Swiss cheese, the B-17 was equally reviled by the Germans for its participation in what the propaganda termed “terror bombing” and for its bristle of defensive guns.
Thousands of the Flying Fortresses dotted skies over Germany and occupied Europe. Flying through black splotches of exploding flak, they became a symbol of US air power.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/718/605/c83bcb0575def40d16750672b19b1b20_large.jpg?1372868 289
The Republic P-47 Thunderbolt was one of the most mass-produced American fighter planes of the war. Large and heavy, it amazed both friend and foe twice: first with its sheer size that dwarfed many contemporary fighters, and then with the fact that it could still hold its own in a dogfight.
However, by 1944 most P-47s were no longer flying as fighters. Newer, nimbler, more advanced P-51 Mustangs replaced them in the role. Instead the Jug as it was affectingly known, flew in the ground attack role. Carrying more bombs and rockets than some dedicated bombers, yet fast and nimble as a fighter, P-47s wreaked havoc on the European countryside. They flew at tree-top level, seeking out German vehicle hiding in the brush, or dove down from the clouds suppressing German firing positions, flipping over attacking Panzers, or strafing infantry with the impressive array of 8 .50-cal machine guns.
Most importantly, the P-47 was highly durable and could withstand punishment. It could come back home with a bullet through the engine cylinder, a basketball-sized hole in the wing, and the pilot’s armor plating all peppered with enemy rounds. There are even stories of German fighters flying directly behind a damaged P-47 and emptying entire ammo stores right into its back, with the Jug seemingly devouring the rounds with no noticeable effect. If there was one thing the P-47 excelled at, it was getting its pilot back home.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/718/607/a2f7b4e3a40ee7395b0ca17be321c179_large.jpg?1372868 302
The Supermarine Spitfire was the most famous, and without a doubt the most beautiful British fighter of the war.
First earning its fame in the Battle of Britain, the Spitfire went through numerous improvements and modifications. It stayed in service well after the war, serving on all theaters, from Europe to Africa and the Pacific.
Beloved for its pleasing outlines, powerful armament, excellent engine, and great overall performance, the Spitfire was respected by all adversaries, German, Italian, Rumanian, or Japanese. If anything, Spitfire is the ultimate proof that if it looks good, it flies good.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/270/ed6f6353d547d7a341c75b9fdf4da6a8_large.jpg?1372883 815
The Messerschmitt Me.262A-1 was the world's first operational jet fighter. Product of some of the most advanced engineering anywhere in the world, it was powered by twin Junkers Jumo 004 engines, the most exceptional part of the aircraft. Other countries were also working on their own jet engines, but their program was just a little ahead of everyone else. They were flight-testing when everyone else was by their drawing boards, and by the time everyone else was flight testing, the Luftwaffe was starting production.
Other than the engines, the aircraft itself was not particularly advanced or novel. It was, in many ways, just a prop plane with jet engines strapped in. However the engines were better, more powerful, and more reliable than anyone else's. So, when Allied bomber crews first spotted strange propellerless aircraft gliding through the air at unbelievable speeds, the shock and awe was complete. The Allies had nothing up their sleeve. For a while, Luftwaffe was back on top.
After a few months, the general Allied air superiority began to shift the balance yet again. The Germans could not produce the jets fast enough; nor could they replace the pilots they were losing. While the Allies were still flying piston-engine fighters that were just too slow to catch the 262 in combat, many of the German jet pilots were not experienced enough to get much use out of their superior speed. They simply could not aim well enough at those incredible speeds. Then, the Allies had such superiority that they could simply hang around until the jets came in to land, and shoot them down by their airfields.
Still, the Me.262 is one of the most incredible aircraft of WWII. In capable hands it can make its pilot literally invincible. If flown fast enough, you'll always be beyond your enemy's reach; and if your aim is true enough, the enemy is always at your mercy.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/268/4d6e6d46e942555c266bc40a07c28f59_large.jpg?1372883 778
The Focke-Wulf FW.190D-9, also known as the Dora-9, was one of the most advanced variants of the famous Focke-Wulf single-engine fighter. The FW.190 was a radial-engine counterpart to the inline-engine Bf.109. Just as the Luftwaffe fighter force was split between those two fighters, today's simulation fans are split in their preference. Some prefer the sleek, powerful 109; others swear by the comfortable yet devastating 190.
Almost futuristic for its time, the Focke-Wulf fighter addressed many of the cockpit workload issues that plagued the 109 till the end of the war. A forerunner of the hands-on-throttle-and-stick methodology, the 190 automated many important functions that required multiple actions by the pilot in a Messerschmitt.
The D or Dora variant however was a radical departure from the radial engine of the earlier variants. Intended to improve high-altitude performance in response to the Allied bomber raids, the Dora was equipped with a powerful inline engine. This required a dramatic redesign of the entire aircraft, most visible in the greatly lengthened nose section. Pilots nicknamed the FW.190D-9 a "long-nose Dora" as the result. Easy to fly, fast, and well-armed, the D-9 was a formidable opponent and was rightly feared by Allied pilots unlucky enough to encounter it in the air.
NOTE: The FW.190D-9 will be the same as the upcoming not-yet-announced FW.190D-9 being developed for DCS:World.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/269/bff71948215b98d8b32521ae1539016b_large.jpg?1372883 796
The North-American P-51D Mustang is one of the most famous aircraft of all time. A true star of the American air power both in looks and performance, this amazing aircraft had humble beginnings. Offered almost as an afterthought, or perhaps a gamble, to a British purchasing commission, it started off as an underpowered, cheap, simple fighter with light armament.
However the inherent strength of the simple design really began to shine, when, a few years later, the P-51 was equipped with a new Merlin engine. The Mustang finally found its strength, and the USAAF suddenly had a great aircraft in its line-up. It was certainly needed. None of the other US fighters had the power or the range to escort heavy bombers to their targets. Losses were heavy. Morale was low. Now, the new version of the P-51 could fly all the way to Berlin and back, and fight anything the Germans could put up on equal terms.
When Hermann Goering, the chief of the German Luftwaffe, saw glimmering silver P-51s over the Nazi capital, he knew, in his own words, that "the jig was up". Now that the Americans had a fighter capable of reaching anywhere inside the Third Reich, Germans had nowhere to hide.
NOTE: The P-51 in Europe’44 will be the same as the P-51D (http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/mustang/) already released for Digital Combat Simulator. Please feel free to look into the project for more information about the quality of modeling and attention to detail that went into this aircraft.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/468/a82d3126a63df0d1919cef731001edb7_large.jpg?1371628 780
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/469/6aa0597022fd53b0c552eade512e5b17_large.jpg?1371628 819
$1 – our heartfelt thanks, access to the backer section with weekly development updates, videos, and more, and a special BACKER medal on our official forums.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/470/44e5499ced6513c7341374e880c56d34_large.jpg?1371628 831
$10 – Everything at the previous level, plus early access to the game’s closed beta.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/471/9e05367199a93cbe2cd6d507ef592716_large.jpg?1371628 842
$20 - Everything at the previous level, plus a digital copy of one additional flyable aircraft of your choice.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/472/b8c61d2d6901a87444d7d111e1a6756c_large.jpg?1371628 853
$30 – Everything at the $10 level, plus a digital copy of two additional flyable aircraft of your choice.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/474/c984f39f06a13b57f8f5359dc447d91e_large.jpg?1371628 864
$40 - Everything at the $10 level, plus a digital copy of all flyable aircraft in the game (this will grow with the stretch goals and possibly end up offering a huge value!)
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/475/f408e0197bb675f2f4920854eabab1a3_large.jpg?1371628 875
$50 - Everything at the $40 level, plus a custom-designed project backer T-shirt.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/476/a8214098dae4fe168c81473795b3c85d_large.jpg?1371628 886
$75 - Everything at the $40 level, plus a hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/478/385c12d63bc4a2bc51622830b622f1dc_large.jpg?1371628 899
$100 - Everything at the $40 level, plus a hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual, and a spiral-bound copy of complete aircraft manuals for one flyable aircraft in the game.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/479/e13df507b5f9fefc7b0f4a393af42bef_large.jpg?1371628 910
$150 - Everything at the $40 level, plus a hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual, and spiral-bound copies of complete aircraft manuals for two flyable aircraft in the game.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/480/4ce18883a622e3d26177e1c26c615d35_large.jpg?1371628 921
$250 - Everything at the previous level, plus a mention in the Special Thanks section of the game credits.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/481/9e8510779551f5c73c36173dd27b03be_large.jpg?1371628 931
$500 - Everything at the previous level, plus a custom-designed individualized paint scheme for an aircraft of your choice, made by one of our in-house experts.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/482/7f3c85ccee9eb9e627f4e86bacb84913_large.jpg?1371628 943
$1,000 - Everything at the previous level, a large framed art print from the game signed by all key team members, plus access to weekly team development meetings via Skype where you can participate in some decision-making and keep up-to-date with the development process.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/484/d4a4131573b9835c18e159a7269a828d_large.jpg?1371628 955
$2,000 - Everything at the previous level, plus your face on one of the in-game pilot models (space obviously very limited).
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/485/9089a2538a95cbf368cd6439d09616e9_large.jpg?1371628 967
$5,000 - Everything at the previous level, plus your voice in the game, speaking for one of the AI-controlled pilots.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/486/04345267ed87c78dbb87960bb27f379f_large.jpg?1371628 978
$7,500 - Everything at the previous level, and a special place as a unique in-game ace in the game encountered in single-player campaigns including your aircraft with a unique ace paintscheme, your voice, your likeness, and focus on your persona in the mission briefing.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/685/487/6c9773c0780cb7fb78ef42dffb89f835_large.jpg?1371628 990
$10,000 - Everything at the previous level, plus we’ll fly you to Moscow (visa is on you) for an entire day with the team, access to early builds, lunch with the development leads, and a night out on the town!

Risks and challenges Learn about accountability on Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#Acco)

The general risks are always the same: trying to do too much with not enough money and not enough time. We've been doing flight sims long enough to know that, and we've been doing it long enough to, hopefully, know how to avoid it.
The risks are always there. Unfortunately, there are always some things that you just don't know. Writing complex features from scratch always has that risk. We can't count the number of times when something we thought would take a month ended up taking two, and something we thought would take a week ended up being done in two days. It can go both ways, but of course, it's usually the former.
The project does contain some unknowns, most importantly the currently unfinished landscape engine, and the multiplayer module. The multiplayer module is in fact so unpredictable that we've taken it out of the kickstarter completely. We're going to work on it, but we'd rather not tie the overall schedule to it.
Other things, making airplanes fly, making tanks roll through the fields, making bombs explode, is generally rather predictable. It's time consuming, takes a lot of ingenuity and skill, but if we think it will take six months, it usually takes about six months.
So, the biggest unknown in this kickstarter is the landscape. There is a potential for something unknown, unpredictable, currently lurking in the shadows, jumping out eight months from now and causing us to delay.
We have been doing this long enough to know that this can happen, so the project has a little buffer.
We really want to make this work and we really, really, really want to make our fans happy. We've worked countless nights and weekends on our earlier projects and we'll happily do it again. We love what we do and we want to keep doing it, and that, to us, means that we can face any challenge that comes up.

(http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=294)

Marmus

Sep-05-2013, 14:26

I just pledged the +$50 level....all aircraft + (1) printed manual for (1) airplane

Recoilfx

Sep-05-2013, 14:34

RAF74_Buzzsaw

Sep-05-2013, 14:42

109K4 and 190D9 in Normandy....? :stunned:

Hmmm.... someone needs to check the historical record. The 190A5 they promise as possible addition is also wrong for June 1944, by then the Luftwaffe was using 190A6's, A-7's and A-8's.

The most common 109 models in Normandy were the 109G6 and 109G14. The K4 didn't arrive in the Jagdgeschwader till November of 1944.

The 190D9 didn't arrive till late August and in very small numbers.

And:

However, by 1944 most P-47s were no longer flying as fighters. Newer, nimbler, more advanced P-51 Mustangs replaced them in the role...

Another factual error. In June 1944, the most numerous aircraft in the USAAF Fighter Groups escorting the B17's and B-24's was the P-47. Many Fighter Groups were converting to the P-51, but this was NOT because the P-47's were less capable as escort fighters, it was because they didn't have the range of the P-51.

And even though later the P-47's were changed to the ground attack role, they still were classified as fighters, and had a very positive air to air kill ratio. This continuing myth that the P-47 wasn't a good fighter should have been flushed down the toilet long ago, but somehow it manages to rear its malformed and misinformed head again.

In case someone thinks I am negative on the project, no. I will donate $100 to the fund, hopefully it will reach its goal and more. But I would like to see some realism in their project outline.

Mysticpuma

Sep-05-2013, 14:48

I'm going to support it, but I don't think ED are helping much? I mean where are we supposed to see the 2-years work on the "Edge" engine since the last video and this would have been a perfect opportunity?

I think it will easily reach the $100,000 and with Oleg back onboard, that's a big draw for the team.

I do love the idea if they reach $1,000,000 the amount of aircraft and possibilities that will be opened up will be incredible.

Just wondering though, it says they have 30-days to get $100,000. If they reach that amount, does it extend for another 30-days or is the project then seen as viable and left open to add funding to?

Cheers, MP

Recoilfx

Sep-05-2013, 14:51

I think they are still deciding on 109 variants - Luthier had said that they might be doing a 109K since they have much better documentations (available to them), but they are still deciding. Looks like they are switching to the G model, but K is still listed?

The FW190D is from ED themselves, it was planned before this project is started, like the P-51D....

Recoilfx

Sep-05-2013, 14:53

ATAG_Bliss

Sep-05-2013, 15:02

The kickstarter is up for DCS WW2

link http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944

and Oleg Maddox is involved!

Really excited about this project, here's hoping they are successful!

Gonna send them $500. This sounds like my cup of tea. And Oleg back makes me all giggly inside :D

This could be very amazing if they can pull it off. They definitely have the team.

Greywing

Sep-05-2013, 15:04

Hmm...

I'd love to and most likely will in a couple of weeks. Once the house reno is paid for and I see how much CPR and Intensive Care my bank balance needs. It sounds good for sure.

Greywing

ATAG_Bliss

Sep-05-2013, 15:20

Hell yeah! THIS IS THE TRUE SPIRITUAL SUCCESSOR to Cliffs of Dover.

I just plopped $200 as a thanks for the 500hrs+ I spent on Cliffs of Dover -

People, please support Luthier's effort! If you not convinced what they are trying to achieve, check out the DCS P-51D module now, you will be astounded! Situations should be much better now as Eagle Dynamics is now in charge of development and final seal of approval (since their brand is at stake).

Exactly. If the kick starter is successful, no more stupid publisher and bean counters pulling the strings. Look what star citizen has done!

So they have the guys that have made the most successful WWII sim of all time combined with the fidelity of DCS and part of the team from Lock On. This is a whole bunch of win!

Dutch

Sep-05-2013, 15:21

Oleg back makes me all giggly inside :D

Brought a huge grin to my face too. But 'Fighter Collection'/'Duxford'/'Eagle Dynamics'/'Ilya Schevchenko'/'Oleg Maddox' - all in the same breath? Jesus, that's some line-up.

And I have to say that it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth that none of them is actually allowed to name the combat flight sim they developed to all our benefits.

I will be supporting their kickstarter, I just have to decide on what level. I wish I had a spare ten grand, frankly. :thumbsup:

Mysticpuma

Sep-05-2013, 15:32

I'm going to start my own kickstarter....to fun my $10,000 investment....then I can take a camera, interview them all....and ask for the key to CloD code :D

Dutch

Sep-05-2013, 15:34

I'm going to start my own kickstarter....to fun my $10,000 investment....then I can take a camera, interview them all....and ask for the key to CloD code :D

Maybe the Kickstarter is to buy said code from 1C.....Joke......I think......ermmmm............:D

Marmus

Sep-05-2013, 15:42

Gonna send them $500. This sounds like my cup of tea. And Oleg back makes me all giggly inside :D

This could be very amazing if they can pull it off. They definitely have the team.

Bliss,

I was expecting you to go for the $10,000 with trip to Moscow included.

ATAG_Colander

Sep-05-2013, 15:44

Bliss,

I was expecting you to go for the $10,000 with trip to Moscow included.

He would need to have vacations for that :D

ATAG_Bliss

Sep-05-2013, 15:47

Bliss,

I was expecting you to go for the $10,000 with trip to Moscow included.

LOL not hardly. Already been to Moscow, just under, umm, more secret circumstances :D

Royraiden

Sep-05-2013, 16:11

Im really glad and excited for this and will definitely support it.

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-05-2013, 16:39

Just wondering though, it says they have 30-days to get $100,000. If they reach that amount, does it extend for another 30-days or is the project then seen as viable and left open to add funding to?

Whatever they hit in 30 days is the final sum RRG will get provided they get past the $100k mark - there's no extension.

AKA_Recon

Sep-05-2013, 17:09

I'm going to start my own kickstarter....to fun my $10,000 investment....then I can take a camera, interview them all....and ask for the key to CloD code :D

hmm, not a bad idea 'I hereby pledge xyz and all I want is the CloD source code'

AKA_Recon

Sep-05-2013, 17:10

I am kicking myself actually for spending money on BoS, as this looks much much better long term investment. Sigh

Off to explain to my wife why I need another $100 LOL

Roblex

Sep-05-2013, 17:14

Did I read it right? Did they say that there is a good chance of no Multiplayer mode in the initial release?

The project does contain some unknowns, most importantly the currently unfinished landscape engine, and the multiplayer module. The multiplayer module is in fact so unpredictable that we've taken it out of the kickstarter completely. We're going to work on it, but we'd rather not tie the overall schedule to it.

ATAG_Bliss

Sep-05-2013, 17:21

Did I read it right? Did they say that there is a good chance of no Multiplayer mode in the initial release?

From what I've read (long before the kick starter) the dedicated server software is supposed to come with the EDGE engine. Refinements / features (in the short term) will all depend on the kick starter.

Dutch

Sep-05-2013, 17:26

Did I read it right? Did they say that there is a good chance of no Multiplayer mode in the initial release?

Who cares mate? Oleg is supporting Ilya, in consort with ED, and life is pretty damned wonderful. So in the words of the 'Iron Lady', Rejoice!! Rejoice!! Maybe that wasn't such a good suggestion, in retrospect........ :D

Bounder!

Sep-05-2013, 17:37

Did I read it right? Did they say that there is a good chance of no Multiplayer mode in the initial release?

I had assumed they would be using the multiplayer software that exists in DCS currently and they were referring to dedicated server software

ATAG_Bliss

Sep-05-2013, 17:41

1/10th of the way in only a few hours. Very good so far!

Archie

Sep-05-2013, 17:45

A master stroke to bring Oleg into the project, that got to be worth several thousands all on its own!
To anyone waiting on funds, don't forget with kickstarter the money is not taken from your account until the time is up and the target has been met!
So, pledge away!
I'm so happy right now, the future of flight sims seems to have turned around big time!

Tvrdi

Sep-05-2013, 17:47

Guys im sorry in advance...

This is *beep!* awesome news!

50 bucks in, next week!....Im sorry I cant do more....bah

Oleeeeeeeegg! arrrghhhhh!!
P47
hardcore sim
MP which actually works

Archie

Sep-05-2013, 17:51

Guys im sorry in advance...

This is *beep!* awesome news!

50 bucks in, next week!....Im sorry I cant do more....bah

Oleeeeeeeegg! arrrghhhhh!!
P47
hardcore sim
MP which actually works

You are so negative these days Tvrdi! If you don't like it, don't pledge, the world won't stop.

SoW Reddog

Sep-05-2013, 17:52

I'm not over impressed if there's not going to be MP capability for an undetermined time.

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-05-2013, 18:05

There'll be a MP - DCS has one already. But I'd say RRG want to built that out and make it a bit more robust. Dedi server capability also needs to be added which I'd say will arrive with the package.

Dutch

Sep-05-2013, 18:12

I'm not over impressed if there's not going to be MP capability for an undetermined time.

Keep the Faith mate, Keep the Faith. That's what Team Fusion have been doing, I trust you will do the same. :thumbsup:

indyscout

Sep-05-2013, 18:45

Doesn't 100k seem a bit short for the game? Or are they receiving additional funding?
And o my a 109k4. All you reds better run and hide once I get my hands on that beauty!

airdoc

Sep-05-2013, 18:49

Doesn't 100k seem a bit short for the game? Or are they receiving additional funding?
And o my a 109k4. All you reds better run and hide once I get my hands on that beauty!

They stated that they have some kind of additional "internal funding". The 100k apparently is the money they need to fill in the gap.
Lets hope they make at least the 375k.

Already pledged

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-05-2013, 18:50

They have some funding already - no idea what the split is. But yeah $100k wouldn't go too far for a project scheduled to take a year.

Dutch

Sep-05-2013, 18:53

They have some funding already - no idea what the split is. But yeah $100k wouldn't go too far for a project scheduled to take a year.

Please could you stop being so serious? Today is a day for celebration, so shut the flip up. :D

Chivas

Sep-05-2013, 18:55

One hundred pledged but could increase that amount depending how close they get to the different stretch goals. I'm not too worried about the aircraft timetable being out a bit historically as the sim should flesh itself out if the money is there, with kickstarter and product sales.

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-05-2013, 19:08

Please could you stop being so serious? Today is a day for celebration, so shut the flip up.

Lol of course I'm excited. Maybe not like your impression of a kid who's about to wet themselves as they think they're getting a xbox for xmas tomorrow excited but pretty fucking delighted all the same :) I fly the P51 way more than CloD so this is a great day. Now time to sleep... just 373 more sleeps to the release date...

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-05-2013, 19:27

Royraiden

Sep-05-2013, 19:45

The stretch goals are killing me, I mean I will be grateful if the 100k mark is all we get but just imagining a P-38, Typhoon,190 A-5,Mosquito the freaking ME 262 and B-17 on DCS level gets me happy:-)

ATAG_Naz

Sep-05-2013, 22:53

Well I've kicked in. Wish I could have put in more but at the end of the month the books have to balance. I put in $112 and if past experience is anything to go by I should end up with a damn fine sim!

Cheers!

Did the same Skoshi. Looking forward to having TF Cliffs, BoS and DCS all installed in the future. Our little hobby seems to have a brighter future than I could have hoped for a year ago.

Salute all.

Screamadelica

Sep-06-2013, 01:12

This is great news. Good to have Oleg back. I was going to pledge $100, but the good wife insisted on adding another $100 herself! What's going on...?:stunned: I hope this will truly be the outstanding flight sim that Cliffs Of Dover gave us a glimpse of. Good luck to the team.:thumbsup:

Old_Canuck

Sep-06-2013, 02:06

I will be kicking in shortly. This is when it comes home to me that retirement income is a whole 'nuther ball game. That fireside video with Oleg was really good to see.

EDIT: In for $40 and ashamed it isn't more as payback for over ten years of flight sim enjoyment. Setting up DCS World today as well.

Xcom

Sep-06-2013, 03:10

Pledged 40$.

If all you guys fly the 51 so much, come join us today for some dogfighting fun on the DCS Israel server.

Check my post on this forum.

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 04:37

You are so negative these days Tvrdi! If you don't like it, don't pledge, the world won't stop.

you cynical you

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af156/AliFishGMT/f7f0d76b.jpg

palker

Sep-06-2013, 04:38

Judging by the screenshots on the Kickstarter page Cliffs of Dover looks way better than DCS WW2 it is such a shame that so awesome looking game as CloD got axed. Anyway looking forward to this especially the P-47 and the realistic turbocharger operation I have seen a P-47 training video and it looked really interesting cannot wait to blow it up :) .

-Sven-

Sep-06-2013, 06:00

Excellent news for us hardcore CFS fans! They seem to be using a winning formula of using an already proven to work engine to build on. I hope they will deviate their plans a tad to represent a realistic scenario from the start. I think, currently, that only with Ardennes map you can have a realistic setting, involving D9 me262, K4 and the latest Allied fighters. But we'll see. Normandy map should give plenty of opportunity for mission builders!

EDIT: What a load of shite, I need a creditcard to back the project.

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 07:27

I have only two concerns. They said MP wouldnt be available for some time...hmm...really? And...I heard there is no collision model in DCS engine....like in CLOD...Is that true?

Greywing

Sep-06-2013, 08:09

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 08:18

They don't say MP won't be available. Only that the funds from the Kickstarter are not being allocated toward the development of MP. In fact they have this as one of the 'Highlights' about the software:

'•Robust multiplayer module provides the ultimate challenge by pitting players against each other in heated large-scale battles.'

OFcourse there will be MP. The question was if it will be available right from the start...there was some mentioning it wont be from the start....but thanks for reply

AKA_Recon

Sep-06-2013, 08:27

I didn't read it that way myself - I read it as they would enhance the multiplayer with new features but that wouldn't be done right at the start.

But maybe I'm reading into it too much.

If they are using DCS engine, including P51, etc... why wouldn't they have multiplayer at the start?

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 08:28

Bounder!

Sep-06-2013, 08:52

I have only two concerns. They said MP wouldnt be available for some time...hmm...really? And...I heard there is no collision model in DCS engine....like in CLOD...Is that true?

Regarding multiplayer, as others have said multiplayer is in DCS right now, it allows for dogfight style battles and co-op missions. I can't see why this wouldn't be ported over into DCS WW2. As I understood it, the real question is whether there would be extra work done on the MP software and whether there will be dedicated server software:

Originally Posted by Charly_Owl: Please tell me that multiplayer will be included!.

Answer: Multiplayer is definitely included in the project! We have a lot of ideas, and we even have some old colleagues that have lots of experience making multiplayer great, but this is one area where we're not making any concrete promises.

After we did all the thinking and planned things out on paper, we realized we were looking at a huge project of its own. We can't afford to plug it into the core Kickstarter tier because it more than doubles the money we'll need. We don't want to risk not reaching even the initial goal because of this. The basic tier is supposed to be basic, after all.

We can only start rehiring old friends and programming and designing away once we hit larger stretch goals, but there's another problem there. This is an entirely new codebase for our old programmers, and multiplayer is extremely hard to program and test and perfect. This is the riskiest component of the entire project with both time and budget. If we make hard kickstarter promises about multiplayer, we run the risk of sinking the entire project by not meeting them on time.

So we're not going to promise anything now, or list any multiplayer features in kickstarter. If we hit larger stretch goals, we will work away on expanding and improving multiplayer, but there is a chance that a large comprehensive multiplayer update won't be ready in time for the initial DCS WWII release.

Originally Posted by airdoc. This has been asked before, but i didn't see an answer, sorry if i missed it but here goes : are you planning to have a dedicated server? This would give the online community a huge boost. A significant percentage of flight simmers find playing online much more rewarding, and a dedicated server offers a lot more opportunities and attracts bigger numbers of participants.

Answer: We are thinking of lots and lots of stuff for multiplayer. It's a huge part of a project's success. However we are so early in our planning that we're keeping it out of our Kickstarter completely. We're still at the point where we might end up being unable to keep any promise we make in this respect.

However we are well aware that dedicated servers are very important!

Originally Posted by Vampyre. luthier1, I am very glad you and your team has taken up the task of building a WWII era simulator within the DCS framework. I am a long time Il-2 flyer and that software has been the best WWII flight sim around for a very long time but it definatly shows its age now. I am wondering if the updated engine will allow for the sheer numbers of online flyers that Il-2 has allowed. 90 or more flyers in game at the same time is a lot of fun. Do you see these kinds of numbers of online pilots being feasable withing the DCS engine?

Answer: The updated engine is for landscape. Multiplayer numbers have to do with something else entirely. To have 100+ aircraft you need to have very smart net code, where you manage to send it all the pertinent information to all participants about all the relevant FM data.

We definitely want this! However please read above for more details on our approach to multiplayer improvements.

Originally Posted by droz. Anyone know if the Multiplayer will, in fact, be as dynamic as the multiplayer functionality we have now? Also, how many players could we feasibly get into a game? Will the current DCS mission editor be available for full use?

Answer: See above

If you are concerned it might be worth posting on the official DCS forums and clarifying the situation i.e. the question: will MP be available in DCS WW2 at all? Will MP be, at the very least what is in DCS already?

On collisions:

Originally Posted by Flagrum. Question: Planned new engine EDZH. There-there "material" trees? I mean, with collisions? Test right now.
My interpretation: EDGE will provide new trees that are not just sprites, but "real" - aka block line of sight and will actually get into our way if we fly too low

Answer: The problem with tree collisions, at least in my past experience, is just in the sheer number of collision objects.

There is probably a hundred million trees and bushes across a large gameplay map.

That's potentially up to a hundred million collision objects for the engine to track. You obviously need to track the trees any place there are planes at lower altitude. In a multiplayer match, for example, where you can have dozens of people flying all over the map, you may potentially need to track every single tree across the map. An extreme case, but you know what I mean. All these trees also need to be tracked constantly, every tick, multiple times a second.

You can't check for collisions between millions of 3D objects 20 times a second.

This kills the PC.

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 08:57

I mean I dont have a prob with ghost trees as long as ppl wont use them as cover in level escapes...and if you turn them off landscape goes uglier....

ATAG_NakedSquirrel

Sep-06-2013, 11:44

Oh boy oh boy!

:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump:

Flyable B-17? This must happen!

I don't plan on actually flying it, but I do plan on sitting in the cockpit and flipping all the switches uselessly, with no hope of ever being able to get it off the ground.

No.401_Wolverine

Sep-06-2013, 12:48

EDIT: Putting this up top so that it's clear. PLEASE BACK THE PROJECT! My post below is only intended to remind people to stick to what they can afford. There's lots of pledge levels! Get stuck in and help with the project, just stay smart about it and informed. S!

I know everyone is very excited, I am too (I pledged at the $50 level), but I think everyone should breathe a bit and remember a few things (NOT trying to be a buzzkill, honest, just concerned for people who may be susceptible to 'over-extending' themselves):

There's zero accountability here at all, not just to any publishers. They will not be accountable to us in any way. It may seem like we are investing, but there's no investor protection. So only pledge what you can afford to write off if nothing comes out of it. There are a number of Kickstarters for games and other things of this type that have folded after collecting money.

Meeting their $100,000 goal is in no way a guarantee of product of any kind. Kickstarter doesn't enforce any of this stuff. Remember Cliffs of Dover's troubled development and consider that it's basically the same people heading this one up. I know everyone likes to call out Ubisoft as the cause of all the problems, but Ilya and Oleg were there too. Maybe the inclusion of DCS helps, but it sounds from the video that DCS is basically just providing support for the game engine. Like it or not, Ilya's and Oleg's credibility to deliver has been somewhat diminished by Cliff's nearly DOA release.

And to point 1 about accountability...$100,000 doesn't sound like nearly enough to cover a project like this, so there's likely funding in the background and so there will be people the devs will be accountable to. That means all the same issues of having a publisher. Someone will be out there wanting to know how his money is being spent. Unless that other funding is revealed, it's suspicious to me.

I'm VERY hopeful for the project. I want that Spitfire Mk.IX so bad it hurts. I just want to again make sure people don't pledge more money than they can afford. Only pledge what you can afford and understand that it's gone and you MIGHT see a game one day.

I feel better having said it and I know I'm probably going to be attacked for having said it, but I have been bitten by Kickstarter in the past. It's not a guarantee. Be safe and S!

AKA_Recon

Sep-06-2013, 13:08

Archie

Sep-06-2013, 13:24

They nearly, not quite, but nearly, broke 30% in the first 24 hours.I hope they/we can keep the momentum up!

No.401_Wolverine

Sep-06-2013, 13:27

Well, $40-50 isn't really that much money - so I think that is safe.

And I agree, go pledge. If you like combat flight sims, this is one to support for sure.

I'd love to see them exceed their expectations, it just means more for us. Win-win!

Yeah, $40 or $50's a good amount. I've seen some people go crazy with Kickstarter 'rewards' though and really over spend themselves. Considering how crippling credit card debt is for some people, Kickstarter can be like a very bad drug.

On the flip side, I guess I'm also saying to people who aren't donating because they're really pessimistic that they SHOULD donate! Throw in a few bucks you can afford to lose because you are a fan of the genre, even if you don't think the project will come off! Show support and pitch in a little bit. Every bit will help. They're going to need it.

Bounder!

Sep-06-2013, 14:10

Wise words Wolverine, it is very easy to get excited and put more than we perhaps should or can afford. I hope the project is a success and I've donated what I feel is right for me and what I can afford. If they don't deliver what they promise/what I expect, I am not putting in too much that it'll be a big loss if it all goes tits up. I hope they make their minimum goal and can go ahead properly but they have said they can develop content even if they don't reach the minimum goal, just that things wont be as polished. As DCS is modular, the way I see it is if they don't make their stretch goals they can always make that stuff later and add it in.

Kodoss

Sep-06-2013, 14:11

$112 spend.

I want full realism with all it's failures.:salute:

Edit: 29.500$ now, only 70.500 to go.

Artist

Sep-06-2013, 16:04

Put my $40 in.

Oersted

Sep-06-2013, 16:05

It may seem like we are investing, but there's no investor protection. So only pledge what you can afford to write off if nothing comes out of it. There are a number of Kickstarters for games and other things of this type that have folded after collecting money.

Ehhh, it is not as if we would recoup the investment even if they manage to make the sim... In any case it is "money lost". But in the positive case it is money plus lots of hours of our lives "lost"!

No.401_Wolverine

Sep-06-2013, 17:33

Ehhh, it is not as if we would recoup the investment even if they manage to make the sim... In any case it is "money lost". But in the positive case it is money plus lots of hours of our lives "lost"!

Getting the product would be recouping the investment in a manner of speaking.

Kickstarter cleverly tricks the investor (you and me) into accepting a worse deal than investors normally get - the product itself instead of percentage return.

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 17:53

Luthier wrote:

The problem with tree collisions, at least in my past experience, is just in the sheer number of collision objects.

There is probably a hundred million trees and bushes across a large gameplay map.

That's potentially up to a hundred million collision objects for the engine to track. You obviously need to track the trees any place there are planes at lower altitude. In a multiplayer match, for example, where you can have dozens of people flying all over the map, you may potentially need to track every single tree across the map. An extreme case, but you know what I mean. All these trees also need to be tracked constantly, every tick, multiple times a second.

You can't check for collisions between millions of 3D objects 20 times a second.

This kills the PC.

This is so unfortunate...... for **** sake...

Archie

Sep-06-2013, 18:14

WTF is this preoccupation with trees people have? I take off from a runway, fly away from the ground, and don't give a **** about trees.
Best you keep away from the project Tvrdi, if you don't like what they are doing. You're trolling hard now.

Chivas

Sep-06-2013, 18:20

I don't believe DCS World WW2 receives any of the pledge money unless they reach atleast the 100,000 threshold.

Archie

Sep-06-2013, 18:27

I don't believe DCS World WW2 receives any of the pledge money unless they reach atleast the 100,000 threshold.

Thats correct.Its how kickstarter works. The money only comes out of your account if the total is reached at the end of the funding period.

Tvrdi

Sep-06-2013, 19:16

Who cares mate? Oleg is supporting Ilya, in consort with ED, and life is pretty damned wonderful. So in the words of the 'Iron Lady', Rejoice!! Rejoice!! Maybe that wasn't such a good suggestion, in retrospect........ :D

WTF is this preoccupation with trees people have? I take off from a runway, fly away from the ground, and don't give a **** about trees.
Best you keep away from the project Tvrdi, if you don't like what they are doing. You're trolling hard now.

did you ever chased someone on level through trees in clod? Well that suck cause ppl abuse them for level escapes. They use them as cover and if you turn em off land is ugly and dull!

Falco

Sep-06-2013, 19:19

100 bucks in, so glad I didn't pre order BoS:)

Dutch

Sep-06-2013, 19:27

did you ever chased someone on level through trees in clod? Well that suck cause ppl abuse them for level escapes. They use them as cover and if you turn em off land is ugly and dull!

Hmmmm, well I wasn't referring to trees Tvrdi. But as you bring it up, yes the blokes who fly through trees to get away are a bit of a nuisance. I always have trees on high, and if someone flies through trees to get away, I just break off as they're not worth chasing after if they use tactics like that imo.

It's not a big deal for me though. The 3D trees in old IL2 didn't have collision boxes either, thankfully, because you'd quite often see them in the middle of the runway on some higher 'conf.ini' tree settings. The 'Oleg trees' were pretty hard though as I recall. :D

DCS trees don't have collision boxes either I don't think. Just not a big deal for me. On the other hand, a flyable Spit MkIX as detailed as the DCS P-51? Now that is a big deal for me. And a Jug too. And as for the B-17, good god that'd be awesome. Trees? Meh.

Wulf

Sep-06-2013, 19:51

On the other hand, a flyable Spit MkIX as detailed as the DCS P-51? Now that is a big deal for me. And a Jug too. And as for the B-17, good god that'd be awesome. Trees? Meh.

Interesting that you would say that. I had an equal and opposite reaction. I always find it interesting that these sims seem to represent the Mk IX as the Apex Spit when in fact that position is held by the Mk XIV. Why is it that the Griffon Spits are always hidden away like so many mad relatives? Anyone like to hazard a guess as to why this appears to be the case???

Chuck_Owl

Sep-06-2013, 20:28

Interesting that you would say that. I had an equal and opposite reaction. I always find it interesting that these sims seem to represent the Mk IX as the Apex Spit when in fact that position is held by the Mk XIV. Why is it that the Griffon Spits are always hidden away like so many mad relatives? Anyone like to hazard a guess as to why this appears to be the case???

Because Merlin Sound > Griffon Sound.

In all seriousness, I have no idea. Maybe they just don't have Mk XIV as readily available as a Mk IX...

Dutch

Sep-06-2013, 20:39

Interesting that you would say that. I had an equal and opposite reaction. I always find it interesting that these sims seem to represent the Mk IX as the Apex Spit when in fact that position is held by the Mk XIV. Why is it that the Griffon Spits are always hidden away like so many mad relatives? Anyone like to hazard a guess as to why this appears to be the case???

As it happens, I was expecting, and very much wanting a MkXIV, given the '44 time period. but a MkIX will do fine. Best of the Merlin powered Spits etc. The Griffon engine ran in the opposite direction, so would need a good deal of re-learning as regards torque on take-off etc. Plus, put simply, the Griffon Spits just aren't as pretty. IMO of course. :D

Wulf

Sep-06-2013, 21:54

... put simply, the Griffon Spits just aren't as pretty. IMO of course. :D:stunned:

....ok, if you insist, I'll tell you my theory. Needless to say it's conspiratorial in nature. I think it's about marketing. The P51 is a very good machine and would give a Mk IX a very good run for its money at most altitudes. In truth, whether you take a Mk IX or a P51 D is probably a matter of personal preference. The overall performance difference won't be that marked. The Pony will be faster of course but the Mk IX makes up for that in other areas. However, a P51 is simply outclassed by the Mk XIV in pretty much every respect bar speed, where they're about the same. So the question must then be asked, how well will that state of affairs go down in the world's largest sim market - the US. I suspect we know the answer to that and if you have just sold the farm in order to get your new sim on the market that's a risk you just aren't going to take.

A somewhat more charitable view might be that the Mk XIV would simply 'unbalance' the game ... but I'm not buying that for a second ......

Chivas

Sep-06-2013, 22:16

I doubt the conspiracy, as they seem to model the version they have the most detail in a given class of fighter, and don't really think they care if a given fighter was better than another. It shouldn't be about a level playing field, or favoritism, atleast that's the vibe I've noticed from the COD, BOS, and DCS developments. That said, everyone seems to think they're favorite aircraft is porked. I doubt they're all right. ;)

No.401_Wolverine

Sep-07-2013, 02:01

I think the Spit IX is probably the one a lot of people think of when they think 'Spitfire'. That or the Vb, but it doesn't fit the time. I'm super excited for the Spit IX because that's the aircraft that No.401 was flying at that time. With good quality historic skins, it could be so good....

Tvrdi

Sep-07-2013, 02:16

Hmmmm, well I wasn't referring to trees Tvrdi. But as you bring it up, yes the blokes who fly through trees to get away are a bit of a nuisance. I always have trees on high, and if someone flies through trees to get away, I just break off as they're not worth chasing after if they use tactics like that imo.

It's not a big deal for me though. The 3D trees in old IL2 didn't have collision boxes either, thankfully, because you'd quite often see them in the middle of the runway on some higher 'conf.ini' tree settings. The 'Oleg trees' were pretty hard though as I recall. :D

DCS trees don't have collision boxes either I don't think. Just not a big deal for me. On the other hand, a flyable Spit MkIX as detailed as the DCS P-51? Now that is a big deal for me. And a Jug too. And as for the B-17, good god that'd be awesome. Trees? Meh.

Lol Dutch, your quote was there by my mistake...There should be only Hans qoute....sry for that mate

MadTommy

Sep-07-2013, 02:58

Tvrdi you crack me up with your trees. :-P

This project is really sounding very very exciting. AS DCS is my main sim platform I'm so happy to see effectively what is left of Maddox games join Eagle Dynamics & The Fighter Collection.. a flight sim partnership made in flight sim heaven. If we get 2 flyable equivalents of the DCS P-51 and a WWII setting to fly in to join the Dora & P-51 from DCS i will be more than happy with my investment. Knowing yo-yo from ED is the quality control gives me huge confidence.

It will also push through something that has pissed me off for years about DCS, lack of a dedicated server exe... i'm now confident after 8 years waiting this will be in place within the year.

Also glad I didn't pre-order BoS, not that i ever really considered it.

vranac

Sep-07-2013, 05:54

Luthier wrote:

This is so unfortunate...... for **** sake...

Is that quotation about CloD or DCS WW2 ?

Originally Posted by Theo
Question:
Planned new engine EDGE.
There-there "material" trees?

You mean, with collisions? Testing right now.

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-07-2013, 06:17

One third of the way there in the first two days. Sounds good to me but I've never followed a Kickstarter campaign before?

How do they normally progress?

Dutch

Sep-07-2013, 06:40

A somewhat more charitable view might be that the Mk XIV would simply 'unbalance' the game ... but I'm not buying that for a second ......

Dunno about that. When I fly the DCS P-51 against the Dora in the stock 'one on one' dogfight, my God I wish I had a MkXIV. It's like trying to fight a E4/N with a Hurri.......:)

(Proviso - I never got on with the P-51 in old IL2 either. Must take some lessons from Deacon or Recoil.......:D )

Zappatime

Sep-07-2013, 07:21

Well I've just pledged my $40, I want to see the flight sim genre live on and get stronger, its given me a lot of pleasure over the years and a very good friend, so spread the news on this, I nearly missed it and I'm sure others could easily do the same despite seeing Ilya's post on the DCS forums a few months ago confirming the rumours of WW2 sim.

Nice to see Oleg involved, having met him at the World Flight Sim convention in sunny Blackpool many years ago when they were just showing development on il2 Pacific Fighters it was clear his passion for the subject runs very deep, whatever anyone thinks of the CLOD debacle; good luck to all involved.

airdoc

Sep-07-2013, 07:32

Guys, although the Mark XIV (griffon) and XVI (merlin) were very fast airplanes, the discrete advantage of the MkIX (and earlier versions) -namely maneuverability- was somewhat compromised. The beastial horsepower/weight ratio of the later marks made these aircraft very jerky and also very difficult for take-off and landing (especially for take-off, I remember reading that pilots had to apply full opposite rudder AND aileron to keep her steady while being VERY soft on the throttle). Many veterans have said that the best fighter version of all Spit marks was the IX because of its smoothness and ease of handling.

I 'd never want a Griffon anyway. Merlins sound better, and don't like those counter-clockwise rotating props. :)

Roblex

Sep-07-2013, 08:10

Getting the product would be recouping the investment in a manner of speaking.

Kickstarter cleverly tricks the investor (you and me) into accepting a worse deal than investors normally get - the product itself instead of percentage return.

I see it more as getting a better deal on the game by pre-ordering. If you pledge just $20 now then you will get to play it earlier and an extra aircraft when it comes out. If you wait until it is released you may well be charged more than $20 for an extra aircraft anyway.

MadTommy

Sep-07-2013, 08:29

One third of the way there in the first two days. Sounds good to me but I've never followed a Kickstarter campaign before?

How do they normally progress?

The only other one i've seen for a DCS module was for the F-35A Lightning II and failed badly.. didn't even make 50% of its goal. (got $32k of its desired $75k). But it was IMO a badly conceived project.

This one is look far more promising. It should breeze past $100,000 and everything else is a bonus!

Its 35% funded with $35,032 in 2 days!

Archie

Sep-07-2013, 08:44

9./JG26_Brigg

Sep-07-2013, 11:47

yes people it is our duty to make sure the mission succeeds. :salute:

gavagai

Sep-07-2013, 13:00

I'm also glad we're getting a Merlin Spit and not an ungainly Mk. XIV. Whatever airspeed advantage you gain with that thing is ruined by the debauched handling. I would have also preferred some type of 109G and not a K, but I'm not complaining. I'm much more interested in an ETO sim than the Eastern front *again*.

MadTommy

Sep-07-2013, 13:37

Yes lets hope it makes it, although there seems to be a bit of an effort to damage it from some quarters.Thats only to be expected I suppose.
Some people can't afford it, some people like to play games rather than sims, some people are fanboys of other games, and think they will get a cookie if they show they are a big enough fanboy ;)
Personally I like flight sims, and will whenever possible support each and every one.

:thumbsup:

The nay sayers baffle me. I'm SO sick of supposed flight sim fans bashing 'other' flight sims even when they are in their embryonic stages.. really pisses me off. They normally justify it as constructive criticism, which it rarely is. :(

No.401_Wolverine

Sep-07-2013, 13:46

I see it more as getting a better deal on the game by pre-ordering. If you pledge just $20 now then you will get to play it earlier and an extra aircraft when it comes out. If you wait until it is released you may well be charged more than $20 for an extra aircraft anyway.

Sure you can look at it that way.

gavagai

Sep-07-2013, 14:29

Que the Spitwhiners, the Allies' best weapon against the Luftwhiners...

:stunned:

....ok, if you insist, I'll tell you my theory. Needless to say it's conspiratorial in nature. I think it's about marketing. The P51 is a very good machine and would give a Mk IX a very good run for its money at most altitudes. In truth, whether you take a Mk IX or a P51 D is probably a matter of personal preference. The overall performance difference won't be that marked. The Pony will be faster of course but the Mk IX makes up for that in other areas. However, a P51 is simply outclassed by the Mk XIV in pretty much every respect bar speed, where they're about the same. So the question must then be asked, how well will that state of affairs go down in the world's largest sim market - the US. I suspect we know the answer to that and if you have just sold the farm in order to get your new sim on the market that's a risk you just aren't going to take.

A somewhat more charitable view might be that the Mk XIV would simply 'unbalance' the game ... but I'm not buying that for a second ......

Tvrdi

Sep-07-2013, 16:00

Is that quotation about CloD or DCS WW2 ?

I already decided I would backup kickstarter but with less than initially intended. As Luthier said, the plan is to have gold version in about a year with P47, Spit 9 and kurfurst free of charge. And P47 is my favourite. So...I will wait for full version and I will see how dcs engine works on my rig. I will see how and if MP works because i dont care for sp stuff. Then will check if there is a collision model for trees and many other stuff....and if everything goes fine I will invest in more planes. I would spend 300 bucks right away, but you know that here average salary is 800 bucks ehhh

BOS I would buy only if they wont charge for pilot belts and such crap....And if they would fix FMs as ppl report valid issues.....long wait for both sims but we have CLOD and future patches.

BTW, it was my utopia that most of us just want a good sim....nope.... most ppl are just fans of one project (for whatever reason, personal or not), and will defend it no matter what.

gavagai

Sep-07-2013, 16:03

BOS I would buy only if they wont charge for pilot belts and such crap....And if they would fix FMs as ppl report valid issues.....lomg wait for both but we have CLOD and future patches.

In the end that's probably the big reason why I've chosen to support DCS WW2 and not BoS. 777 will have to fix the RoF flight models before I feel like offering them any support.

Oersted

Sep-07-2013, 16:56

The funding rate has slowed to a crawl... - Looks difficult to reach 100,000 IMHO.

Royraiden

Sep-07-2013, 17:15

The funding rate has slowed to a crawl... - Looks difficult to reach 100,000 IMHO.

I was thinking the same thing.We need more advertisement.

Old_Canuck

Sep-07-2013, 17:43

Ilya was planning to release more videos when necessary. When the next one is released, we should broadcast it everywhere we can. P-51 incoming today .. yeah I know I blinked when the sale was on. :(

$37,006 with 27 days to go. A temporary lull is normal but it will take off again be sure.

Marmus

Sep-07-2013, 17:43

The funding rate has slowed to a crawl... - Looks difficult to reach 100,000 IMHO.
I was about to post the same.

Our community is only so big, flight sims in general....let alone prop planes from WWII. I have always been amazed by the division between jets people and prop people. Many "original" dcs fans have no interest in this project.

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-07-2013, 17:57

It's following a standard enough curve - first couple of days are when all the followers get in right away. Now Luthier needs to start putting out more updates showing some more details. There's probably a good few people still on the fence and some good video updates and providing feedback to questions would encourage them to pledge. Would also get newcomers interested. And pay days will be rolling around which some people would be waiting for before pledging.

Getting 37% of the way there after just 2 and a bit days is a good start. We need to get the word out as best we can but a lot now depends on Luthier stepping up and selling the product... hopefully with more clarity as the KS page so far made a lot of people confused. Was good to see the M4T team getting in and spreading the word on their forums - hopefully that'll bring in a bunch of the old IL-2 crowd.

Archie

Sep-07-2013, 18:00

I believe theres another video due Monday.

Dutch

Sep-07-2013, 18:34

In the end that's probably the big reason why I've chosen to support DCS WW2 and not BoS. 777 will have to fix the RoF flight models before I feel like offering them any support.

Now that's a surprising statement which I wholeheartedly welcome. I think I may have misjudged you mate. My apologies.

Me? I've stumped up some cash for both. And most of the DCS stuff too, which I hardly ever fly (play). BTW, Wulf is by no means a 'Spitwhiner'. :D

Chuck_Owl

Sep-07-2013, 20:39

The only other one i've seen for a DCS module was for the F-35A Lightning II and failed badly.. didn't even make 50% of its goal. (got $32k of its desired $75k). But it was IMO a badly conceived project.

This one is look far more promising. It should breeze past $100,000 and everything else is a bonus!

Its 35% funded with $35,032 in 2 days!

Purely speculating here, but I can't seem to get that idea out of my head.

Truth be told, I'm not sure about how things are going right now. I was part of the F-35A kickstarter and the maximum number of backers was after the 3rd day (I believe the goal had to be reached in 2 weeks if I remember correctly). The growth rate of backers is not constant. The hardcore flight sim community will massively invest in the first 3 days (as it is a niche market), but the rest of the funding will probably have to come from other flight simmers or average gamers (I really doubt average gamers would want to invest in a project they know nothing about though, especially if they're not familiar with flight sims).

Anyway. I feel like the backer pool is rapidly being exhausted and that there needs to be backers coming from elsewhere. War Thunder crowd could be a possibility (a lot of people left because they felt the game was too arcady, which it is). They're numerous and most of them would kill to fly a Late-Mark Spitfire in true HD Full-Real-Battle glory. And, most important of all, we know that the player pool for DCS will always be coming back, so there will always be players online to fly with. There might be less servers and games won't last 10 minutes, but they'll get their money's worth by flying the most ambitious project yet revealed by DCS and Il-2 vets like Luthier and Oleg Maddox. Lots of people just don't realize how big of a deal Oleg's participation in the project really is. Especially in this "game" genre. Especially since he said that he was "done" with flight sims. But, I'm drifting off, back to topic.

Any ideas on how the kickstarter could reach more people? I was thinking of setting up a non-official facebook page for the kickstarter, but I'm not sure I'm in my right to do so. Youtubers definitely need to join the parade.
Baron
www.youtube.com/user/BaronVonGamez
Jingles
http://www.youtube.com/user/BohemianEagle
Dslyecxi
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtIBkKQD1u7asfuRsqSLvYQ
Jester
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jester814/videos
Ramjb
http://www.youtube.com/user/ramjb
And, of course, last but most certainly not least:
TotalBiscuit!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut/videos

I believe that in order for the project to be successful, the community needs to help. We need to help the kickstarter to have better visibility.

I think it's what we've been asking for years and years. I don't think we'll get another chance like that if the project fails... not in a couple of years anyway.

Silver_Dragon

Sep-08-2013, 06:40

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1863250&postcount=1053

Evening everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN View Post
Can you clarify the free flyables from the licensed ones, is there going to be free ones (or one like DCS World), it seems a little confusing right now...
FREE for everyone:
P-47
Spitfire
Bf.109K

Paid on release
P-51 (from DCS World)
FW-190D (from DCS World)

If you back at a $20 level, you can pick a P-51 or FW-190D.

If you back at a $40 level, you will have both.

If you already own a DCS World P-51 and/or FW-190, then obviously no one wants you to have to pay for anything twice.

If we reach stretch goals, then the story changes.

Free aircraft list will most likely not change.

Backing at $20 still gets you one of the larger variety of paid aircraft.

$40 or above still gets you ALL of the initial flyables.

None of the aircraft released in future updates are covered by any of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainstay View Post
I also want to ask Ilya to reconsider making a G serie along with the K. Either a G6/8 or 10 would be great.
I like the G. It's just we currently can only make one variant of the 109, and we picked the K as we have the best data on it.

I don't want to make empty promises or vaguely hint at something, but I really liked having multiple variants of the same plane in my older projects. The overall process is much simpler. Once we have the K, making the various Gs and maybe the F should be comparatively simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tintifaxl View Post
Don't know, if it has been posted already, but the 100 USD backing reward states: printed manuals for 2 planes, in the description it is only 1 manual.
The sidebar description is the most correct.

Sorry about the confusion. I'm still unable to edit the description, getting the limit reached error. I guess I'll just honor the bigger rewards in every case, and deliver the maximum or the combination of any two tiers with errors in descriptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaelu View Post
I hope the map can be extended a bit more... we are used to 800+km across map .
We can extend the map to the entire globe, but manually adding detail will be extremely hard to do.

We can have all of England done for the map in virtually no time, but it'll be a general coastline filled with vague generic field.

It really makes no sense to spend time making British airfields if you only have AI bombers; a flyable B-17 will obviously need to have a nice-looking airbase to take off from and return to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseback View Post
The size of the map is a bit of a disappointment (expectations can be a biotch), but It looks like we'll get a territory reaching approximately from Cherbourg to Le Havre and a good bit south--assuming that my Google Earth distance thingie is accurate. Still, even in 1944, Normandy was a lot 'busier' than the Black Sea area, especially if they have to make time to create new landmarks, vehicles, buildings, ships as well as the aircraft flight models at the level advertised.

The way I understand EDGE - and I have to mention that there is a chance that I can be wrong here - is that we can take an existing map and just drag out the outer edges and extend it by any number of kilometers.

Creating generic terrain with a vague coastline and some elevation is not a huge task. Making it look good is. Making it historically accurate, i.e. recreating road networks, landmarks, etc, is a huge huge effort.

We could take our existing Normandy and tack on England and Paris and Ruhr and Berlin. Theoretically. It's just it'll either take many man-years to polish every square mile, or we'll end up with some empty generic filler across vast areas.

And THANK YOU to all the backers once again.

We'll have a new cool video released on Monday morning.

I'll be around until then to answer questions, so keep them coming!

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-08-2013, 08:01

They just broke 40 Kilobux at the kick starter!

Looking good!

Oersted

Sep-08-2013, 08:29

Any ideas on how the kickstarter could reach more people?

I have done my bit on Reddit, which is the new big thing on the internets... - But it sure would be good to get some more people posting to the threads and adding the all-important upvotes! (Signing up for Reddit is for free.)

Flightsim subreddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1lspqu/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_kickstarter_is_here/

Hoggit subreddit ( DCS Warthog fans):
http://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1lsosr/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_kickstarter_is_here/

Warthunder subreddit (it already dropped way off the front page...):
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1lsrgi/a_bit_off_topic_dcs_wwii_europe_1944_just_started/

- Apart from that I posted a message on my youtube channel which should go out to all my 1800 subscribers...
https://www.youtube.com/user/wwwDOTdalsgaardDOTeu/discussion

I agree that NOW is the time to get the pledging campaign starting! - No use trying to scrounge up pledgers desperately with five days left.

Hope other people will have more ideas for PR of different kinds.

Oersted

Sep-08-2013, 08:44

BTW, if anyone can re-post my above posting on the eagle.ru forums it would be great... - Lets get more people and upvotes on reddit.

Silver_Dragon

Sep-08-2013, 11:57

I check flyawaysimulation.com has nothing info from DCS: World / 3rd Party projects or DCS:W WW2 (required register pay members), If something can "revive" the old "lomac" forum, surely can be very usseful to DCS: WW2 KickStarter.

Roblex

Sep-08-2013, 13:11

Let's hope this project goes as well as the 'Omni' project; they asked for $150,000 and got $1.1 Million :-)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game

Chuck_Owl

Sep-08-2013, 13:57

BTW, if anyone can re-post my above posting on the eagle.ru forums it would be great... - Lets get more people and upvotes on reddit.

Just upped all convos on reddit.

56RAF_klem

Sep-08-2013, 14:50

I have done my bit on Reddit, which is the new big thing on the internets... - But it sure would be good to get some more people posting to the threads and adding the all-important upvotes! (Signing up for Reddit is for free.)

Flightsim subreddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1lspqu/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_kickstarter_is_here/

Hoggit subreddit ( DCS Warthog fans):
http://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1lsosr/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_kickstarter_is_here/

Warthunder subreddit (it already dropped way off the front page...):
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1lsrgi/a_bit_off_topic_dcs_wwii_europe_1944_just_started/

- Apart from that I posted a message on my youtube channel which should go out to all my 1800 subscribers...
https://www.youtube.com/user/wwwDOTdalsgaardDOTeu/discussion

I agree that NOW is the time to get the pledging campaign starting! - No use trying to scrounge up pledgers desperately with five days left.

Hope other people will have more ideas for PR of different kinds.

I had similar ideas and started on Toms Hardware Video Games forum this afternoon but within a few hours it was deleted :(

I suggested the following on the 'how can we get more people playing CoD' thread. I'll follow these up later unless I find someone beat me to it - have to go play just now:

Places like SimHQ, Flyaway simulation, A2A, DCS, Ubi, 1C, flightsim.com, uk.gamespot.com, simflight.com, flightsimworld.com, Avsim(?), pcaviatorforums.com, forum.keypublishing.com, nzff.org/forum, forums.simviation.com, http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum-13.html, http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=44, http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk ..........

Oersted

Sep-08-2013, 14:58

Great Chuck, I saw that and hope others will do the same!

Archie

Sep-09-2013, 01:39

Luthier posted on the kickstarter page:

Also, a little clarification since a lot of people seem to be writing about this.

Here's what happens if we hit our base goal, but no stretch goals.

The final product that is released will have the following content:

FREE Flyable P-47
FREE Flyable Spitfire
FREE Flyable Bf.109
FREE Non-Flyable P-51 (can be made flyable for an additional fee)
FREE Non-Flyable FW.190D (can be made flyable for an additional fee)
FREE Non-Flyable B-17 (cannot be made flyable)
FREE Non-Flyable Me.262 (cannot be made flyable)

If you back the project at a $20 level, you will receive either the FW.190D or the P-51 as a flyable.

If you back the project at a $40 level, you will receive BOTH the FW.190D and the P-51 as flyables.

Now, if we hit stretch goals, then all additional aircraft will be seen by everyone as non-flyables, but will be available as a flyable for a fee. If you back at a $20 level, you will choose any ONE of the paid flyables. If you back at a $40 level, you will still receive ALL the paid flyables on release.

If we end up meeting our ultimate $1million stretch goal, that means you will receive 13 aircraft for backing at a $40 level or above.

And yes, all aircraft will be made to the same level of quality and high standards as the DCS P-51.

Silver_Dragon

Sep-09-2013, 07:52

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1865971&postcount=1113

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
Luthier, One crucial question, which will decide me backing or not. Do you plan to make a collision model for trees. If not then ppl would use trees in mp to excape level chases. To hide. Its killing fun and is highly unrealistic. And if we turn off trees terrain will look ugly.
Let me be perfectly frank here.

I just cannot promise it at this time. All I can promise is that we will try.

I may have deja vu after my old project, where we've had quite a few instances of saying "we will do this" instead of a more semantically correct "we will try to do this", and where we eventually ended up not being able to deliver what we promised.

As it is today, EDGE is still being integrated with the rest of the game. That's precisely what's being done right now, today, having various game objects interact with terrain. Vehicles need to drive, planes need to collide, etc.

We're obviously extremely interested in having tree collisions. There's no gameplay or realism reason for why it should not be that way. The only reason why trees would not have collisions is performance.

There are obvious algorithms for making this work. There are also less obvious ones. We need to finish the programming, try things out, and make sure everything works well.

Need to point out that the people working on this are ED programmers. They're outside my control, and they obviously had absolutely nothing to do with any of my old projects.

This is why I personally cannot say with 100% certainty we will have tree collisions. My certainty is, let's say, 93.6%. This may be PTSD talking, but I don't think that's good enough for a promise, especially if your pledge depends on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishtmail View Post
As it stands now, there is some confusion.
One part of the description states that at 100k funding goal we get 5 airplanes (P51D and FW190 included), in another part it states that we get 3 airplanes.

Five airplanes total, three of them free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogster View Post
I don't really understand the business model at this point.

Giving 3 free DCS level planes seems a strange choice, unless the idea is to draw punters away from other products the initial release being really a loss leader. DCS isn't known for anything other than jets, the WW2 hardcore may take some drawing away from the IL2 series. Maybe this is Tishin's play for world flight sim domination.

This decision was based on gameplay considerations, not marketing or sales.

DCS World is based on decades of content. While there's only one free plane, there's tons and tons of other content that the player encounters, and there's a lot of fun to be had.

DCS WWII starts from scratch. We can't do all that much in the next year. If we were to release a free version of the game with a single flyable plane, there'd be significantly fewer options for the player.

We want people to enjoy themselves and really have a good, all-around complete product even in the free version.

I personally would be very uncomfortable releasing a bare-bones single-flyable free game. We still have to strong paid aircraft in the basic version, and we really hope that the influx will drive enough people to purchase the P-51 and the Dora to keep the series going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbs View Post
1. How will MP work? Coops/servers? how many players in a mission.

Same as DCS at least, and we're hoping to improve on it as much as we can.

Like I said in the kickstarter description, we really want to spruce up the MP, but we don't know how much we can do and how fast, so perhaps some major features will be added on later.

In other words, we have lots of strong opinions and a lot of plans, but it's way too early to talk about them. We'll only know what we can do in the process of doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbs View Post
2. How big is the map, ive heard 100/160km but is that just the detailed area with more less detailed map area around that, will there be a English coast?

100x160 for the detailed terrain, yes.

This is the current size of our WIP map.

We can extend it at any time but we have not done so yet.

I'm personally scared to include England because it really opens up a whole new set of tasks. I am very uncomfortable doing low-quality terrain, especially with all the great things EDGE can do given enough effort. I think we could be shooting ourselves in the foot by releasing low-quality poorly textured inaccurate England with a few major airbases.

In other words, I'm potentially open to the idea, but perhaps it needs a bigger discussion with the community. We might try to add on some England and show how it can be done quickly, just so it's there, and then ask and see if the majority of the players would rather have something like that, or have nothing at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbs View Post
3. Can Paypal be added to the ways to pledge?

Sorry, we can't do anything with the kickstarter system. Whatever it supports, we'll take. Whatever it does not, we can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xaoslaad View Post
You need to get some of that first days momentum back!
[IMG]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?

It's already looking eerily close to what happened to the F-35A, big contributions on day one and two then a trickle from there on out.
We do have a few more things up our sleeve. As a matter of fact, even with the slowed down pace the project is doing better daily than we might have hoped for. It's just that the first few hours were so unbelievably strong, that's making the current pace look bad in comparison.

We really do need to pick up the pace and really get the momentum going again if we really want to hit those stretch goals. A flyable B-17 is my personal dream. There's gotta be a way to get there somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=MadCat=- View Post
First off, I am curious if the initially provided planes will be at DCS or FC level ?
I honestly can't see three planes at DCS level given away for free, but I'm asking to make sure.
Please excuse if this has already been explained, but it is impossible to remember every information in this giant thread.

Like I said above, this isn't just a kickstarter for the project. The project itself is supposed to kick-start a new WWII flight sim series.

We want to start it with a bang. So we really are doing three free DCS-quality planes. Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=MadCat=- View Post
We get the Fw190D-9 as a full price module by ED, matter of fact.
If stretch goals are met, we then get a Fw190A-5 (I expect it to be a full price module too) by RRG.
Here, one could still argue those are fundamentally different planes (radial vs inline).

What if then, later on, it gets decided to do a Fw190A-5 1,65 Ata or any other version, whilst we already have the D-9 and A-5 ? !
Is this then expected to sell as another full price module too ?
Same with the various Bf109s and/or Spitfires ?!

I really hope that you'd trust the guys who give away three DCS-quality planes in order not to nickel and dime everyone not to nicked and dime everyone on another plane

We want to have a strong series, and we want to build a good relationship with our players. We are not against giving stuff away for free, as you see.

FW-190A and FW-190D are really very different planes. That's why we are putting them as two separate line items; please not that we have not released even a hint of the pricing structure for anything because we ourselves do not have it set at this time.

I personally only have a vague idea of some sort of a anthology pack for major aircraft that includes various important variants in a single purchase, with a heavy discount for the owners of the initial single-variant package. But like I said, we are nowhere near far enough in the kickstarter, much less the development process, to really have made any decisions about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klem View Post
Why do you want to model individual trees? Why not forest and hedgerow blocks, like single objects? I suppose one answer might be to allow vehicles to travel through forests but are we really interested in that? The Ardennes aside (January 1945) where you could perhaps use trees or clumps of trees, I don't see the need for them in an air combat simulator. Surely the compromise should be in ground vehicle operations rather than flight aspects.

We'd want to have individual tree collisions because in my experience with my older projects anything less is not precise enough.

When your wingtip passes through a tree with no effect, or you fly a foot away from a tree and explode, that's horrible. And that's what happens when your collision is too rough.

If we were to go with blocks of trees, that would really change the look of the terrain. We'd need to have all fields, all roads, all parks, everything, to be a multiple of the standard tree line width. You'd see that right away. The terrain would look horribly blocky, almost Minecraft-like.

So we really do need to have fine tree collisions for this to work well. They need to match the shape of the tree, otherwise the disconnect is extremely maddening. There's nothing more upsetting than flying in MP, inching closer to the kill at tree-top level, pulling a hard turn around a tree, and exploding even though the tree is over there, just because the collision is a little too coarse.

Anyway, back to video editing for tomorrow morning!

Royraiden

Sep-09-2013, 12:33

A little video to possibly encourage a pilot or two.I cant be the only dying to get the Thunderbolt on DCS level.:recon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RwPrdAej8

Old_Canuck

Sep-09-2013, 13:08

Just love the sound of that radial.

$48,261 at the five day mark! I'm hoping to see it hit the halfway mark before today is finished.

KICK IT.

$50,658 -- half way in five days.

KICK IT AGAIN.

CaptJack

Sep-10-2013, 01:51

I'm in, this game will probally cause my next computer upgrade.

Congratulations!
You're a Backer!
DCS WWII: Europe 1944 You're a backer of
DCS WWII: Europe 1944
by Ilya Shevchenko

Pledge Summary
Amount pledged
$50.00 USD

Reward
Everything at the $40 level, plus a spiral-bound copy of a complete aircraft manual for the plane of your choice.

Estimated delivery
Sep 2014

Shipping
Within the US

If this project is successfully funded, your card will be charged on:

SATURDAY OCT 5, 1:20PM EDT
When your reward is ready, Ilya Shevchenko will send you a survey via email to request any info needed to deliver your reward (mailing address, t-shirt size, etc).

Project Name Project Status Project Ends Pledge Pledge Status Selected Reward
DCS WWII: Europe 1944 In Progress Saturday Oct 5, 1:20pm EDT $50.00
(09/10/2013) Pledged $50.00 - Everything at the $40 level, plus a spiral-bound copy of a complete aircraft manual for the plane of your choice

Old_Canuck

Sep-10-2013, 02:33

I'm in, this game will probally cause my next computer upgrade.

:salute: CaptJack, if you post a screenshot of your confirmation here you'll be entered for a draw to win high end rudder pedals:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5635

Silver_Dragon

Sep-10-2013, 05:23

WW2 reach 50% (51.354$).

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1867547&postcount=1131

I'm starting to think we might need to shuffle things about a little bit.

We'll try to change the immediate next stretch goal, and make it a flyable B-17 and British airfields. Move all other stretch goal aircraft one tier up.

We'll talk this over and have a decision for you within a day or two.

Also going to work on adding some more attractive backer rewards.

Oh trust me, I'm very familiar with southern England :)

--------

RRG does not currently have a dedicated AI programmer.

We could theoretically look into hiring one for this project, which would probably give us tons and tons of cool stuff over the course of the project, but I really don't know how to budget for that. We're already pretty far out there for a stretch goal. I'm kind of cautious about adding too many tiers or too many options. If I add, for example, and intermediate "improved AI" stretch goal, all as a part of all additional stretch goals, that might turn off some other people, and make it seem like the aircraft they really want are too far away.

ED has programmers too, of course. We however do not have a current plan for AI improvement.

-----------------

No clue at this point.

---------------

This new video is basically introduction part 2. Nick Grey is a hugely important part of this project, but it felt like putting him in the initial video made everything way too long.

It's also not about passion but about our relationship with TFC. This has immediate, direct, and unique impact on the product. We have access to the actual aircraft and the actual pilot. That's not sentimentality or small talk at all. These are the precise reasons why DCS: P-51 is the best prop simulation available today.

I have another talk video all put together, which I foolishly planned to release as video 3, but I realized the error of my ways while uploading video 2 this morning. Video 3 will be a detailed look at EDGE. Video 4 will be a detailed overview of aircraft modeling in DCS. Video 5 will be a video QnA, and then video 6 will probably be the thing I planned for Video 3.

I also have to point out that it's all just me. I write the scripts, I direct, I shoot, I edit, I release, I discuss. I don't have a marketing staff, anything like that. I'm learning as I go. Hopefully I can do enough to reach at least one stretch goal in the next 30 days. Please don't let the fact that I'm not a marketing professional or a filmmaker influence your opinion of myself as a game developer!

SoW Reddog

Sep-10-2013, 07:51

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-10-2013, 07:58

They don't have to spend a lot of time writing a code engine from the ground up. They can make use of the existing DCS world core module and concentrate on the planes & map. The code to handle all the flight physics is already there and proven to work well. That's a vastly different undertaking.

And if you've flown the P51-D you'll understand why we're excited to get some other iconic birds at that same level of detail. The overall flight model, ground handling, landing & take-off characteristics are significantly more advanced than other combat flight sims around currently.

The ED bit is big too - means we're getting assured quality control. Also they'll have access to the Fighter Collection who'll offer feedback on the flight models, etc. to ensure that they're close to the real thing based on their operation of the real planes.

ATAG_Bliss

Sep-10-2013, 08:24

I don't mean to come across as a naysayer and I'm posting this here because I know I'll get a mostly civil and informative response.

I missed the debacle that CLoD suffered on release and onwards, buying it and finding that it didn't run well I just dumped it and only came back 6 months ago when I was reinstalling Steam after a PC upgrade. So, I don't really know what happened, and why CLoD failed and was left in the state it was. I've seen the almost hero worship for this project and the personalities involved, but with the exception of ED, what's changed? It's still mostly the same people who've already failed to give you a game with immense promise once. Why would I want to pay up front for a game that could never be delivered since Kickstarter's do fail and there is no guarantee of an end product. Once bitten, twice shy I guess. Just seems that having spent money on something that everyone would agree was an unfinished product once, you're now investing in something that you might never get at all?

As I said, I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely interested why this has got the support of so many here and why I should back it?

I'll answer this one. 1st and foremost, the reason for the tremendous support (from people like me) is because they have already created the greatest and longest lasting combat sim of all time. They produced expansion after expansion (how I like it done) where you pay for an entire theater of war and all the planes, objects, etc., that goes with it. That way when you own the sim, you have the exact same product as person x,y,z does, and taking that approach (right now what appears to be only a measly $40) gets you that theater.

About Clod: One thing I'll never understand is people saying Clod's release is entirely the blame of Oleg/Ilya. I'm pretty sure, heck, I'm 100% sure they sure as heck didn't want to have to release the sim in the state it was. But, since you have played Clod, especially modded Clod, I'm sure you have an appreciation for all the passion that went into it in the 1st place. The cockpits, the feeling of flight, the damage model etc., are all amazing. The little details like the generator that can be used in the Br20. The way certain animations work within the cockpit etc, the astounding attention to detail. The fact that, just like the original IL2, the sim is a sandbox that was designed like the original, for modders etc., to create whatever they want.

I don't really want to turn this into a my sim vs your sim type of thread, but if you've played other modern sims, take ROF for instance, you'll soon see how much different the DM is compared to even 10+ year old IL2. In Clod, the damage goes down to the component level, hell, down to individual cylinder damage in the engine. And what I mean by this, is ROF while having animations for it's wings coming off etc., still uses a massive hitbox for it's DM. That means X number of bullets into the box of the wing = the wing falling off / coming apart etc. While in Cliffs, for instance, you could unload your entire compliment of ammunition into the wings of a Ju88 and basically have it full of holes, still flying on. But, on the flip side, you converge just right, and have perfect aim in just the right spot of that wing, and you can slice it right off, same goes for taking out engines, fuel fires, etc. etc.,etc. This is huge for online, because it's not about how many bullets you shoot on any part of the plane, but how accurately you shoot them.

Even the pilot in ROF is a hitbox, where it takes 4 bullets to the head to kill him. It takes a single bullet in Cliffs. But other parts of the body, depending on where hit, can take a few rounds. That why in old IL2 and Cliffs we can lose our control cables as they can be shot out, lose hydraulics, lose electrical power, lose batteries etc., all from where the round hits. In ROF for instance, you don't lose any of that. You essentially have control surfaces that can be shot off, a pilot that takes 4 bullets to the dome, a very weak engine damage model (with about 3 different failures), and some fuel / oil leak damage. ROF doesn't even have cockpit damage yet.

Now this wasn't, again, to do a sim vs sim thing, but to people like me, I find that sort of thing very important. The little details. In Cliffs we can turn on damage and see exactly what is happening (when we are damaged) and in ROF we can not, ala a dev console that everyone can use. There's all sorts of things that Oleg / Ilya did for the user, the sandbox if you will, that isn't found anywhere else. Now how much of that sort of effort makes it into DCS, maybe even further down the road? I don't know. But I do know, if there's any group of people that can make a sim like that (as they already have for over 10 years now) it's these guys. So that's why I will most definitely blindly support at the chance of any sim they are a part of. It's a no brainer. But I will also support the others as well. They just have a special place in my heart. I can't tell you the 1000's of hours I've spent in the old game, let alone the well over 1000 I've spent in Cliffs. That is a pretty cheap price to pay for entertainment.

Robusti

Sep-10-2013, 10:26

I am watching the results with keen interest and hope.

ATAG_Colander

Sep-10-2013, 10:52

However, perception is reality in marketing and I am reading lots of anger on other websites and people calling this a "cash grab" etc.

About this, not sure how different this is from a "pre-sale" before the game is finished. Actually in this case, you can actually get more value for your money than in a pre-sale if the stretch goals are met.

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-10-2013, 11:00

And they're also giving away 3 DCS level birds for free - P47D, 109K-4 and Spit IX. Overly generous if anything in my opinion!

Robusti

Sep-10-2013, 11:06

Old_Canuck

Sep-10-2013, 11:27

Good point, Icarus. It would have a big impact if Eagle Dynamics were to weigh in and put people's fears to rest. Those who know Oleg and Ilya's history (as in Bliss's great post above) have seen what they can do over the longest running benchmark-in-its-time flight sim: huge stable of WWII aircraft - much of it as free addons - Pacific theatre with believable carrier landings, etc. NO NO NO .. Oleg and Ilya are not to blame for CoD's premature release and they show great character by not pointing fingers at the ones THEY KNOW are responsible. So if a partner(s) actions tore down their reputations, it would be poetic justice that their new partner (ED) step in to build it back up again.

Royraiden

Sep-10-2013, 11:34

Im doing my bit:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1425678/kickstarter-dcs-ww2-europe-
1944#post_20774016 (http://www.overclock.net/t/1425678/kickstarter-dcs-ww2-europe-1944#post_20774016)
:D

SoW Reddog

Sep-10-2013, 11:54

About this, not sure how different this is from a "pre-sale" before the game is finished. Actually in this case, you can actually get more value for your money than in a pre-sale if the stretch goals are met.

Well, the difference is that this is a kickstarter which legitimately can fail to deliver you a product and you have no recourse. You're in a sense an investor, not a consumer. At least that's my understanding of it.

Old_Canuck

Sep-10-2013, 12:01

Good one, Royraiden :salute: Kick it again.

ATAG_Colander

Sep-10-2013, 12:08

Well, the difference is that this is a kickstarter which legitimately can fail to deliver you a product and you have no recourse. You're in a sense an investor, not a consumer. At least that's my understanding of it.

If the goals are not reached, you don't loose a cent.
If they are reached, yes, there is a risk but so there is with anything you buy (games or otherwise).
You might get a buggy game, a close to useless operating system (not naming any :D), a massive car recall, you name it.

The risks are the same, but as pointed out, the perception is different.

I saw a program about this a few days back where they made a little experiment...
In a movie theater, they sold two sizes of popcorn:
- Small for 3 dollars
- Big for 7 dollars
Almost every one bought the small one because the big one was too expensive.

Then they introduced another size:
- Small for 3 dollars
- Medium for 6.5 dollars
- Big for 7 dollars

Almost every one bought the big one because the difference was only 50 cents!

This comes to show how easy is to have a perception influence our decisions (and how our brains can be manipulated :D )

Archie

Sep-10-2013, 12:13

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/minichart.png (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/)

Old_Canuck

Sep-10-2013, 14:32

This shortened version of the chart is deceptive as it shows the trend falling short of the goal. Click on the chart and also the "trend" chart which shows a clearer projection.

Archie

Sep-10-2013, 14:35

Over 5k today! If Luthier brings in a flyable B17 then it could get very interesting!

Old_Canuck

Sep-10-2013, 15:15

Over 5k today! If Luthier brings in a flyable B17 then it could get very interesting!

+1 ... and middle of the month payday is coming :)

Robusti

Sep-11-2013, 12:32

This shortened version of the chart is deceptive as it shows the trend falling short of the goal. Click on the chart and also the "trend" chart which shows a clearer projection.
Hmmm.....

Oersted

Sep-11-2013, 16:36

Icarus, on the site they differentiate between trend and projection and explain the difference.

Robusti

Sep-11-2013, 18:11

Icarus, on the site they differentiate between trend and projection and explain the difference.

Yes, but...............

jjohnson241

Sep-11-2013, 18:37

Yes, and the projection that this is going to end up at $255,000 at the deadline is comical with the way this is trending. Those graphs are far too optimistic. We all know it will be tight just to get the $100,000.

Absolutely agree with you.. in fact I don't think they'll hit $100K without something stimulating at least another 800 donors.

ATAG_Snapper

Sep-11-2013, 19:56

Here's a brief note I sent to Ilya via Kickstarter/Facebook. I hope he decides to drop by!

------------------------------------

Sep 11, 2013
Hi Ilya,

My name is Dave Rilstone and I'm the moderator of the ATAG forum at

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forum.php

The founder of ATAG, John Bliss, has launched an initiative at our forum to encourage members (3,743 strong as of today) to contribute to your Kick Starter project. We all avidly fly Cliffs of Dover online on our ATAG server, and are very excited and supportive of your DCS-WW2 Europe project. With Team Fusion about to release their second patch, this would be an ideal time for you to visit the forum to promote your efforts.

Wishing you every success with DCS-WW2 Europe!

Sincerely,

Dave Rilstone
aka "ATAG_Snapper"

Royraiden

Sep-11-2013, 20:22

Again good idea Snapper!

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-11-2013, 20:31

Short artitcle on simflight.com. I left what is (hopefully) a positive comment in hope of generatining some interest and getting a few more pledges.

http://www.simflight.com/2013/09/10/dcs-ww2-europe-1944-kickstarter-project

Chuck_Owl

Sep-11-2013, 23:43

I'm absolute rubbish with photoshop, but I'm thinking of re-writing the kickstarter brochure and allow it to be downloaded in a pdf format. The goal of this brochure would be to clarify many questions (added FAQ section), re-arrange information layout, a bit of dark magic, add graphs, better presentation and give a better idea of what the project is about and what it all means (I consulted the Star Citizen kickstarter page to know what generates interest... and what doesn't).

4219

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-12-2013, 04:59

One more $40 pledge and they will break $60K!

Well done guys!

Archie

Sep-12-2013, 06:36

Over 60k now! Looks like the hatchet job a couple of morons posting at Simhq tried to pull has backfired a bit. Luthier really needs to step it up a bit though, he's late with his update.

ATAG_JTDawg

Sep-12-2013, 10:17

ATAG_Snapper

Sep-12-2013, 10:41

I Sent this, to his contact me ==========4224

Nice! :thumbsup:

Yep, "Bliss and Snapper"! Gotta like it! Bliss puts up the excellent rudder pedals, gets out the mass emails to the membership, works with ATAG Admin to get Kick Starter link on the masthead, defends Ilya/Oleg detractors on other forums.....and I get to bask in the glory of it! :D (Hey, it's all good -- from my perspective! LOL)

Thanks for the kind thoughts, though, JT.

:)

ATAG_JTDawg

Sep-12-2013, 11:51

so I made stuff worse , lol oh well ( snapper tricked me )

Chuck_Owl

Sep-13-2013, 02:20

4241

An alternate cover... maybe... or not...

Royraiden

Sep-13-2013, 09:07

Am I reading some of the rewards correctly??Now with some of the higher ones you get 2 copies of all the available aircraft to gift to friends?

ATAG_Colander

Sep-13-2013, 09:54

Am I reading some of the rewards correctly??Now with some of the higher ones you get 2 copies of all the available aircraft to gift to friends?

Yep! Read the update post from Ilya.

Archie

Sep-14-2013, 15:01

Just passed 75k! :thumbsup:

I/JG53_Friedric

Sep-16-2013, 03:51

Question:If i pay is this montly or just a one time fee ?

56RAF_klem

Sep-16-2013, 05:11

Question:If i pay is this montly or just a one time fee ?

It's a one-time backing (contribution) to the development of the game and the rewards you get (game content) when it releases or in some choices including early Alpha testing, depend on the level of your backing.

Your backing money isn't taken until the kickstarter money target is reached and the project is launched. If it doesn't make it you pay nothing but its looking very likely that it will succeed.

Choose well young grasshopper.

I/JG53_Friedric

Sep-16-2013, 10:46

Ok thx i backed up :thumbsup: I never don this before so i just Backed up for 40$ to see how things work.

Cheers al .

ATAG_Snapper

Sep-16-2013, 12:38

Ok thx i backed up :thumbsup: I never don this before so i just Backed up for 40$ to see how things work.

Cheers al .

Good stuff, mate! :thumbsup:

:)

Silver_Dragon

Sep-22-2013, 18:55

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts

Hello everyone,
We're almost there! We've almost reached the goal. That is amazing.

I think the backing pace slowed down a bit because everyone feels that the base goal is pretty much there, but the very next stretch goal is so far it's virtually unreachable.

We need smaller stretch goals, and we need to make them good. I've asked about this in the comments yesterday and received overwhelming support.

The thing is, after the base 100K we are hitting the no-internal-funding zone. Features begin to cost what they really cost. We need to raise a lot more money for individual line items. 150K seems like a very reasonable stretch goal to add, but we can hardly do anything for the extra 50K. Definitely not a map and definitely not a whole new plane. The only thing we can try to squeeze in for the 50K is a cockpit for the 262, and that's only because we are already doing the AI version.

So, the new stretch goals will be as follows:

100K: Base

150K: Flyable Me.262A-1 jet fighter

275K: Normandy map extended North to include Southern England (up to but without London)

425K: Flyable B-17

Moving the 262 up allows us to create an attractive stretch goal at the lowest cost possible of all. This pushes back the flyable B-17 by the same 50K, but I think it's worth it.

Please help us get there! If you've already backed the project, please consider increasing your pledge. If we all put together, everyone who pledged $40 or higher gets the Me.262 for free in the initial release!

And if you have not yet backed, please consider doing so. Even backing at the $1 level helps. That still gets us a little closer to our goals, and most importantly shows the overall level of support. This project is not just about the dollar amount, but about community support. The number of backers shown next to the project is extremely important! We're currently at 1,378 backers and $97,293. If we can get to 2,000 backers by the project's end, even if that means only adding a single dollar from these new backers, that is still going to be an amazing showing.

Please remember that backing at even the $1 level allows you access to backer-only updates, polls, and discussions. We will be interacting with the community a lot in the months between the end of the KS campaign and the initial release. We are currently discussing our 3rd party content development options internally. A decision will be reached next week as to the exact extents, but some level of involvement is virtually guaranteed. We will almost certainly do a backer-only something, perhaps an SDK, perhaps some other tools. So backing at even the $1 level will allow you to either get directly involved in modding and expanding the game, or just to access the internal updates on the progress.

Thank you everyone for your support and for your enthusiasm. Let's keep pushing forward!

PS Some of you noticed that the P-51s in the previous update had no weight with the gear struts fully extended. Everyone responsible has been dealt with. Struts have been compressed. Apologies extended.

TWC_BikerJack

Sep-24-2013, 09:16

Royraiden

Sep-24-2013, 10:01

It has a steeper learning curve than CLOD but fortunately the interactive tutorials are excellent and pretty much what you need to get off the ground( pun intended) :)

Foul Ole Ron

Sep-24-2013, 10:35

Bikerjack - there's a sale on currently where you can pick the P51 up for $15.99. Well worth the money if you have it spare as it's normally $39.99. Probably would be another sale around year end if you miss it this time.

airdoc

Sep-24-2013, 13:12

Felt the need to help the cause by pledging $62 - could do with a T shirt!

Question - I have looked at DCS and often considered going for it and downloading the base DCS World software and then purchasing the P51. But, from what I can gather, there is a very steep learning curve to be able to fly DCS. I have only just got to grips with CLoD and feel quite competent using the package and all (well, most!) of its functionality. If the new WW11 sim does occur on schedule will time spent now on DCS be beneficial in terms of cockpit procedures etc?

Those of you who switch between DCS and CLoD could perhaps share your experiences with regard to key and joystick set up similarities. I am concerned that, once started, DCS could be so immersive and time consuming that CLoD will take a back seat and my poor little brain will find it difficult to run both concurrently. If the set ups are vastly different I for one would worry about staying current on either sim?

Any thoughts, recommendations?

Thanks

DCS is about full realism. That means that the time it takes you to learn how to fly an aircraft depends a lot on the aircraft itself. The P51-D is a pretty advanced warbird, having more systems (and more complex) than the early MkI Spits used in BoB. So, you can expect that it will take you more time to learn how to handle the P51 (relative to CLoD). Note that it is not only about flying, but also about managing all the other systems. My guess is that it would take someone (who flies on weekends only) a couple of months to master the P51, if he already has no trouble coping with CLoD. Getting acquainted with the DCS environment also contributes to the learning curve, but this will have an impact only once.

However, after mastering the P51, moving on to the P47 should be much easier, since the american fighters shared a lot of systems and gauges. A lot of similarities for the startup procedures, weapon arming etc. Another implication is that some people would prefer flying with german fighters, because of their more automated systems. Automatic radiator,prop pitch, etc would take a significant burden off the CEM needed, and this would translate in a less steep learning curve. We should see this with the Dora coming up. Handling all these systems is part of the beauty of DCS, and offers, in my opinion, an unparalleled level of immersion, since there are so many more parameters that can affect the outcome of a mission/flight.

As for having a hard time running DCS and CLOD concurrently, i wouldn't really consider it happening. Once you 've mastered an aircraft in DCS, you will find it easier to fly it in another sim. Flying it to its limits however in both sims would be rather difficult in my opinion, as it always takes some time to readjust to sim-specific variables. What I 've found out is that I tend to fly less aggressively in IL-2 or CLOD after DCS, because it takes me some time to readjust to the flight model (which is significantly harder in DCS P51) and stick settings.

As for the seeming complexity of DCS P51, my HOTAS buttons are similar in both CLOD and DCS P51. Once you re in the air, 99% of the time you will use the same old buttons : throttle, rpm/prop pitch, gunfire, views, gear, flaps and rads. Engine startup, weapons arming and radio require some non-HOTAS buttons (also clickable on the cockpit), that you will learn to do effortlessly after some time.

cheers

PFT_Endy

Sep-24-2013, 15:55

I think you overestimate the learning curve. For simple startup/takeoff/landing and basic systems operations procedure it will be not more than 1-2 hours. Now you're right about learning to fly it well, it always takes a lot of time to really master a plane. Same as in Clod btw. but the P51 is way more sensitive to rough input and much more dangerous if you mistreat it. Anyway, there's no need to scare people away it's really not that hard to learn this stuff if you know some basics from other flight sims :)

airdoc

Sep-24-2013, 18:00

I think you overestimate the learning curve. For simple startup/takeoff/landing and basic systems operations procedure it will be not more than 1-2 hours.

You are right Endy, I didn't mean to put someone off. You definitely can get the startup/takeoff/landing pretty quickly, especially with the excellent tutorials that come with the game. The "couple of month" timespan was referring to mastering the plane. :)

After all, RL spit pilots in BoB only had about 7-10 hours in the bird before going right into battle iirc. Surely one can learn to fly an aircraft in the sim faster than in RL!

TWC_BikerJack

Sep-25-2013, 03:43

Thanks for the comments above. Well, it is downloaded and I got the P51 for $15.99 - bargain. Now the fun starts!:thumbsup:

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-26-2013, 02:09

Well, we've got the update but unfortunately the video is marked as private by youtube.

Hope Luthier gets onto it fairly soon!

HaJa

Sep-26-2013, 02:17

I do believe he has used some unfortunate wording in this update:

quote:
"Secondly, we can get some extra help from existing backers. If you've backed at a $40 level, it may seem like you're already getting everything you want. If enough others come in and pledge, you'll get the Me.262 at no extra cost. However what if they don't? No one gets anything. We're getting into a very interesting field of psychology here, but basically we're in a situation where inaction gets everybody nothing, while a seemingly altruistic action benefits everyone, including the actor. In other words, if you can, please bump up your $40 pledge. If enough people do that, all $40 backers get the Me.262. In yet other other words, while on paper the price of the game with the included Me.262 is $40, in reality it is probably a bit more. The way things stand today, a $40 pledge may not actually buy the 262."
end quote.

That doesn't sound right to me and some people might be annoyed by them even though it's not meant as it sounds.

//
regards

Silver_Dragon

Sep-26-2013, 04:18

Update DCS WWII: Europe 1944: Kickstarter

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/610190

DCS WWII: Europe 1944: Kickstarter Video #4: Plane Talk

Update #6 · Sep 25, 2013 · 15 comments
Good evening gentlemen!

We're down to the wire! Just a few days left before this kickstarter ends.

I really hope we can energize the community enough not to just hit the 150K Me.262 stretch goal, but to get as close as we can to the 275K Southern England stretch goal!

We can do this in one of several ways.

We can find a large new community that has never heard of this project and get them excited. That's certainly very possible. We're getting virtually no exposure outside flight sim forums. If you know of a gaming resource that could be interested in our project, please help us out!

Secondly, we can get some extra help from existing backers. If you've backed at a $40 level, it may seem like you're already getting everything you want. If enough others come in and pledge, you'll get the Me.262 at no extra cost. However what if they don't? No one gets anything. We're getting into a very interesting field of psychology here, but basically we're in a situation where inaction gets everybody nothing, while a seemingly altruistic action benefits everyone, including the actor. In other words, if you can, please bump up your $40 pledge. If enough people do that, all $40 backers get the Me.262. In yet other other words, while on paper the price of the game with the included Me.262 is $40, in reality it is probably a bit more. The way things stand today, a $40 pledge may not actually buy the 262.

Lastly, we hope that some people who were on the fence about the project will be finally converted by today's video. If you have not yet backed the project but were watching it, please get involved! Even a $1 pledge is absolutely great. It still gets us a bit closer to our stretch goal, and, even more importantly, it increases our total number of backers. That, at this point in time, is at least as important a number as the dollar amount below it.

So, without further ado, here's a long extended conversation with Dmitry "Yo-Yo" Moskalenko, the lead aircraft programmer in DCS. He'll talk about the long evolution of the Eagle Dynamics flight model, and puts forward a great case for it being the best flight model on the market today. Yo-Yo created the P-51, our flagship prop-driven fighter simulation, and we're very fortunate to announce that not only will Dmitry be involved with and supervise and quality control all aircraft built by RRG, he will also personally work on our Spitfire Mk.IX, a project of a great personal interest to him.

Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/8o6zOuvhY-k

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-26-2013, 07:17

Great update!

Old_Canuck

Sep-26-2013, 19:03

Update 7 is on its way:

"Hey folks,
Brace yourselves. The next video I release is going to be a much less hardcore look at the game, targeted towards more casual or new players. Still going to have a bunch of gameplay footage, maybe some EDGE, but generally nothing amazingly new.
Then I'll do a part two of the aircraft video talking about the modeling. There's a lot of intricacies there too. External models, cockpits, animations, damage, etc. Should be interesting, and I don't think a lot of developers usually talk about that.
Now, back to EDGE. Doing some color corrections. Maybe it'll look a lot prettier by tomorrow."

Remon

Sep-27-2013, 08:26

Interview on Rock paper shotgun

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09/27/the-flare-path-toad-array/

ATAG_Snapper

Sep-27-2013, 08:54

Interview on Rock paper shotgun

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09/27/the-flare-path-toad-array/

Good article. Thanks for posting the link, Remon! :thumbsup:

Tvrdi

Sep-27-2013, 08:58

RPS: Will hedge-hopping DCS WWII pilots need to worry about vegetation collisions?

Ilya: My long and painful experience with past projects forces me to add a warning here that all features are subject to change and so on and so forth. And, the answer is yes.

:)

aaaarghhh

Silver_Dragon

Sep-27-2013, 13:04

Update 7:

www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts

Good morning !

Brace yourselves. The video we're releasing now is a much less hardcore look at the game. Yet, it tries to answer some of the most important questions we have as flight simmers.

Why are there so few of us?

Why are millions of people playing other hardcore games, games with perhaps more of a learning curve than DCS P-51? Why are they willing to brave through hours of frustration, deaths, restarts, toxic multiplayer, and all of that for a payoff that, to me, is much less satisfying than watching your enemy go down after a dogfight?

The video has my thoughts.

Next, we'll do a part two of the aircraft video focusing on the modeling. There's a lot of intricacies there too. External models, cockpits, animations, damage, etc. Should be interesting, and I don't think a lot of developers usually talk about that.

And a quick update on EDGE. We've been doing some color corrections this week. Beginning to look a lot more like what we want. We'll have a few screenshots soon; just don't want to muddle up this update.

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYy5MgFd7ME

Skoshi_Tiger

Sep-27-2013, 19:21

Good update about accessibility to new players and a talk about goals! Bloopers included at end!

Can't wait for the next discussion about the aircraft!

Royraiden

Sep-28-2013, 17:03

Little update:

Ilya Shevchenko 14 minutes ago
Good afternoon folks!
Working on the 3D modeling video. Have some interviews I recorded with the team back in July. As it turns out there's a bunch of audio problems. Darn. I think I'll just record myself by my lonesome. Hope you're not tired of my mug yet!
Some answers:
Michael: we have a fragile peace with the people who create a competing product. I want to keep it that way. I am sure there is enough room for more than one or two or five flight sims on the market. I do not feel that for me to succeed others must fail.
There has been bad blood and flame wars between the two teams going back to almost the very inception of the other product. If you'll go back years and years, you'll notice that I never once participated in any of them, and my mood has always been concilatory.
In the end, words are just words. Developer promises are just that, promises. When both products are released, people will fly what they like regardless of any promises or flame wars or any other forum drama. I'm sure there will be lots of people flying more than one flight sim. I remember back in 1998, like I mentioned in my video, I flew both WWII Fighters and EAW and I didn't care to join in any discussions on which were better. I liked both.
And so that's that. People who know me already know what I've worked on. Those who don't wouldn't really care at this point. It does not matter.
Charles: what am amazing video
Luke: Not sure what you mean, what planes and tanks and guns? The museum in the background? That's the Victory Museum in Moscow. Most tanks are the real thing, while the planes are modern replicas. Some are actually pretty poorly done. The cameraman for that video was Roman Deniskin, my veteran colleague, lead aircraft programmer on our old series and now the new as well as a veteran 3D modeler. We were looking at the museum's 109 replica. The wing had no airfoil at all. It actually looked almost exactly like the low-poly angular wing in our old series. Had a good laugh about that.
And yes, they're all in the same spot.
http://www.poklonnayagora.ru/…
Bearcat: I completely agree on most points. However I disagree that a flight sim is the MOST hardcore of all genres. There are many games that take hundreds if not thousands of hours to master. Millions of people are willing to put that into another title. There used to be that many willing to try Oleg's game just 12 years ago, when it was the most hardcore thing on WWII market. Something happened since then. We could hardly expect to sell a million copies of Europe 1944.
Nothing I'm saying has to do with making a game less hardcore. It has to do it with making a hardcore game more accessible. Right now, the entrance window is a tiny slit 10 feet above ground level. I'm not lowering it. I just want to widen it, and maybe remove the shards of broken glass leading up to it.

Silver_Dragon

Oct-04-2013, 07:59

Update 12 DCS: World WW2:

Perhaps a little sleep deprived, DCS WWII lead developer Ilya Shevchenko answers some of the most important questions of the campaign and talks about why he's confident he can deliver on the promises made.

Please watch this video for an in-depth discussion of the project's inception as a leaner, cleaner design the team is confident they can deliver, and why the tasks that make up DCS WWII: Europe 1944 are inherently more stable than many other tasks that often are involved in game design.

http://youtu.be/KARx6C6Y4r8

This video took a lot longer to make than I anticipated, but I think it was very important to have this out before the campaign ends.

A question that gets asked perhaps more than any other is, are you sure you can pull this off? Can you keep all the promises you're making?

The answer is yes.

First of all, it is a yes because the alternative is unthinkable. Not delivering a product after a kickstarter campaign would not only be fatal to the developer's careers, it would also make them contractually obligated to refund the entire amount raised on Kickstarter to the backers. The team understands the risk, and has chosen Kickstarter as opposed to many other alternatives precisely because we are confident in our ability to deliver.

The project was designed from the ground up to be simple and lean. It's largely made up of three types of tasks: aircraft creation, landscape design, and mission and campaign design. All of these tasks are inherently more predictable than many other tasks often involved in game design. The feature list for DCS WWII was specifically chosen to contain as few risks as possible.

This way, the project plan is a matter of simple math. We can accurately estimate the amount of time it will take us to make the 3D models of aircraft and cockpits because we're not breaking any new ground here. We can accurately estimate the amount of time it will take to create new aircraft because most DCS WWII tasks follow the tracks laid down by DCS P-51. Looking over the blueprints and technical descriptions of all featured aircraft, we see no major tasks that have a serious risk of falling through or taking too much time and jeopardizing the entire project.

The landscape design is also predictable. We know exactly what needs to be done. All tasks can be estimated accurately because they follow preexisting examples.

Content creation, missions, campaigns, is again predictable. We are using the powerful DCS Mission Editor, a stable, established program, that again allows us to accurately gauge the amount of time needed for all tasks.

All in all, we know exactly what needs to be done. We can estimate all tasks with a high degree of accuracy. Kickstarter budget gives us a comfortable cushion to play test everything and correct any unanticipated problems we may encounter.

We are really looking forward to working with our backers, providing constant updates on the development progress, and watching this project take shape.

Please watch the video for an even more detailed explanation from the project's sleep deprived lead developer Ilya Shevchenko.

Silver_Dragon

Oct-04-2013, 13:12

edited

Royraiden

Oct-04-2013, 13:25

That was supposed to be a private update but what the hell, looks awesome I think it should had been public.

ATAG_Bliss

Oct-04-2013, 13:29

That was supposed to be a private update but what the hell, looks awesome I think it should had been public.

Agree.. Should have been public to begin with, but I understand the want for backers to have their own special something. Here's hoping we hit 150k today!

Dutch

Oct-04-2013, 13:45

:)

'Backer's Only' - Surely Ilya didn't expect it to stay secret? I was enjoying the idea of people squirming in their chairs though, wanting to see the WIP, with their hands straying to their back pockets then back to the mouse..........:D

Royraiden

Oct-04-2013, 13:46

Well the post with the pics on ED got deleted.I dont know if this one should be taken down, Luthier clearly doesnt want these set of pictures out in the open unfortunately:ind:

airdoc

Oct-04-2013, 13:58

He is obviously well aware of the fact that these shots won't be kept secret. I think that he is doing this for two reasons : to give something back to the fans and to spur the interest (curiosity to see the pics really) of those who haven't decided yet, for the final 24 hours.

After the KS is over, he will probably release higher resolution images.

Anyway, these shots and the fact that he just mentioned that the P47 pit is in a same stage of development, make me feel that this project is well thought of in terms of planning, and we probably won't have any delays in production.

Royraiden

Oct-04-2013, 14:07

Some one posted a link to this thread on the BOS forums and already there are a few guys pledging because of the pictures.

Marmus

Oct-04-2013, 14:13

Well, they suckered me in for more. I pledged $50 the first day of Kickstarter...then upgraded to $60 to get ALPHA access when that was unveiled...now I just upgraded to $100 so I can get ALPHA access, FW-190 and a manual....or something like that....I agree it is ALL a bit confusing!

God dammit.....I am going to hear it from the wifey when the credit card bill comes!!!

Silver_Dragon

Oct-04-2013, 14:16

Apologize all.... sorry by my error :(

Royraiden

Oct-04-2013, 14:19

Apologize all.... sorry by my error :(

Feel proud that your "error" encouraged a few guys to pledge and a lot more others to up their pledge:thumbsup:

Vlerkies

Oct-04-2013, 14:21

Those new 109 pit pics in their mail look like my home for the next few years to come :-)

ATAG_Bliss

Oct-04-2013, 14:46

Apologize all.... sorry by my error :(

I liked your error very much :-)

Silver_Dragon

Oct-06-2013, 06:38

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/619741

We did it! Thank you backers! The Kickstarter Campaign is a success!
What a wonderful Saturday morning! We really pulled through in the last couple of days and we did absolutely awesome!

Current total:

Kickstarter: $158,897

PayPal: $5,436.39

GRAND TOTAL: $164,333.39

We'll be shutting down the paypal page in a few minutes to coincide with the end of the kickstarter campaign.

Please watch my celebratory video that talks about what happens next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFoBYmDegsE

Quick summary:

1. Your rewards. I have to tally all Kickstarter and PayPal backers into a single database. Then we have to create a web interface for you to access backer-only content. Kickstarter by itself is no good since it leaves all PayPal backers out. There will also need to be an interface for your reward management.

It's a bit of a project, so we probably won't have it ready for a little while.

In the meantime, the only reward that can go out right away is the DCS World P-51.

If you have selected a reward tier that specifically lists the P-51, you'll be receiving your product keys via email next week.

Otherwise, the process will be completely manual for now. I'll do a backer-only update in a little while that describes this process in more detail.

2. We'll keep on working on the project as previously scheduled. We are adding the Me.262 cockpit to our task list. It'll be done by the same wonderful duo of German cockpit experts that built the FW.190D-9 and Bf.109K cockpits.

3. We will be posting regular backer-only, and slightly less regular open development updates. We'll keep you updated on our aircraft and landscape.

4. The landscape SDK! We can start a dialogue even before the SDK itself is available. Obviously, the most ideal situation that I see is that the community forms a core group of landscape designers that will, with developer support, create more landscapes for Europe 1944. Again, please stand by for a separate more detailed discussion on this.

5. The main priority for the team however is delivering a good game to backers with the features we've listed. We will work very hard to have our alpha available next year. Once that's out, we will most likely open another campaign either on kickstarter or on our own site for more additions to DCS WWII: Europe 1944. I know that a lot of people really want the flyable B-17. I think it's the most logical next step for this product, but of course we have plenty of time for discussions.

We will definitely discuss every single aspect of any future campaign with our backers before launching it.

Silver_Dragon

Oct-06-2013, 07:03

DCS: WW2

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/619858

Update #16 Oct 5, 2013
Landscape Development Update - October 5, 2013
29 comments Unlike 36 likes
Hello everyone,

Here's where we are with Normandy. We haven't made any drastic changes this week, it's just progressing along the same lines. We're playing a bit with the landscape mesh and adding lots of small details such as brooks, little bridges, and so on. Also playing a bit with colors, as you'll probably notice, and adding some detail to landscape textures.

We're also working on something really cool which, to my knowledge, has never been done before in a flight sim.

The terrain can have multiple, potentially limitless, number of states that define virtually everything. What does that mean? It means we can have the early 1944 Normandy with Pointe du Hoc still intact. We can have the D-Day Normandy with bomb craters all over the coast, floodgates open, and some of the landing areas flooded. We can have the post-invasion Normandy with flooding receded and lots of new Allied airfields.

That's what we're working on right now. And actually, here comes out first request. We know what was flooded by the Germans for the invasion. However, we can't find any references on how it was dealt with. Can anyone provide some more info? What would you see on June 7, June 8, June 9?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/987/997/185f20d7d4a60bfecf22558e8773fa06_large.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/987/999/be43a5073db878b30c4cb1627524cee0_large.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/988/003/655b26873cc519d967427b4cf877dea3_large.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/988/006/155bddfbcc6007614ac2253629e5d2ba_large.jpg

Silver_Dragon

Oct-10-2013, 06:18

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/comments

Hey everybody!
Sven: We're kind of on the fence about this. By the way, you guys are really sharp. You pick up on important questions just about as soon as we do, and sometimes even earlier.
This is the very strange nature of the modular structure of the project.
What is DCS WWII? Surely it's the sum of all its parts, and taking the parts away destroys the whole? If seen this way, it's natural to sit on the planes that are ready, only make them available to kickstarter backers in alpha-beta, and launch another pledge drive for the B-17 in the interim.
But on the other hand, why not just release one or more of the new DCS WWII planes into DCS World, and use those funds to make the flyable B-17 instead?
This is something that requires a much larger backer-wide discussion I guess. We'll have it in a little while. In any case, we're months away from having any planes ready for release.
MP: I see multiplayer as a huge, huge part of any product's success. However it's not just the net code. It's the interface, the game modes, mission design, a gazillion components. Those of you who go back to the beginning of my early series will probably agree that the MP in Oleg's first flight sim was the bomb. It was so because Oleg had just created two absolutely amazing MP modes for his award-winning FPS titles (virtually unknown in the West, idolized alongside the likes of Doom and Duke3D in Russia). He had a whole crew of experienced MP programmers and designers that spent almost two years ironing out all the kinks.
So, we definitely have a long list of things we want to improve with multiplayer, but if we were to consider doing them for day 1 release of DCS WWII, we'd probably need to double our budget.
Since we didn't, the only thing I can really promise is that we'll try.
Also, trueSky looks really cool, but we're far too commited to making our own clouds and weather system to switch horses mid-jump.
Hopefully the stuff you'll see there will compare favorably to that video.
And regarding the Flight Sim show, we really should be doing a lot more stuff like that. There's always something happening somewhere, and a booth and some product boxes is a great thing to have. Unfortunately we just have no resources to attend most of them, no people to arrange and set up and man a booth, literally no one. So for the time being we'll probably just do a few major airshows, especially those connected with TFC and Duxford.

Silver_Dragon

Oct-16-2013, 16:31

WW2 update

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1907102&postcount=1

Hello folks,

I’ve been absolutely swamped these past few days. Catching a plane to Moscow in a couple of hours, so I probably won’t respond to any questions or comments on this update for at least 24 hours.

Here’s where we are with Normandy today.

We started working on a 1:1 recreation of Utah beach. It’ll be one of the areas recreated down to each street, each object. It’s obviously in the very early stages.

We’re playing around with the representation of the areas with German defensive flooding, and trying to get it so you can still see the fields and villages underneath the floodwaters.

We’re also just generally laying out all the important areas, roads, bridges, villages, and so on.

Finally, we’re also working on different types of coastal cliffs.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1375239_652620434759848_772470111_n.jpg
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1393927_652620368093188_1025016545_n.jpg
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391711_652620571426501_1764589638_n.jpg
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1385738_652620768093148_1684899449_n.jpg

Silver_Dragon

Oct-31-2013, 06:11

DCS: WW2 Update

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1918848&postcount=151

at the risk of my head . Picture from the flooded area. As usual WIP. We're working.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1451455_659701737385051_1739412307_n.jpg

Old_Canuck

Oct-31-2013, 14:43

DCS: WW2 Update

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1918848&postcount=151

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1451455_659701737385051_1739412307_n.jpg

That is a VERY convincing image :salute: