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SoW Reddog
Sep-06-2013, 08:33
OK, I know that the front portion of the Spitfire cockpit is armoured glass, but is it correct that it's so opaque? I've just noticed from watching today's TF Update, how badly obscuring looking through the reflector sight and front windscreen is compared to looking through the same in the 109. I'm just wondering also if those wierd little marks on the windscreen could be removed, looks like a bit of dirt/weathering on them but again I notice none on the 109?

Apologies if this has been asked before, or is indeed correct but I've never read any reference from contemporary sources suggesting that visibility was better out of the side of the cockpit than the front.

ATAG_Freya
Sep-06-2013, 09:53
..... I'm just wondering also if those wierd little marks on the windscreen could be removed, looks like a bit of dirt/weathering on them...



I tracked those "contacts" once for about 5 minutes. The four dots on the lower left corner of the front glass. Then I made a turn and thought "WHAT THE HELL!! they fly like UFOs!!" and then the dim light flickered on and I felt like my normal idiot self again...

SoW Reddog
Sep-06-2013, 09:54
I am SOOOO glad I'm not the only one that's done that Freya.

bolox
Sep-06-2013, 09:58
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/duxford08/100_1479-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/bolox00/media/duxford08/100_1479-1.jpg.html)

does that answer your question as to how opaque Spit windscreen is?

SoW Reddog
Sep-06-2013, 10:46
Yes - ish. Glass can discolours over age, also that's clearly a modern picture so could be a non authentic screen, but I'm happy to assume that it's correct in-game if that's the consensus. I honestly didn't know.

However, could we please have the erks give it a clean, pretty sure we wouldn't all have the same marks!

bolox
Sep-06-2013, 11:04
erks working on night fighter versions have been issued windolene, windscreen for the use of,
and all nightfighter pilots have been put on a strict diet with many carrots:P

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Sep-06-2013, 11:18
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/duxford08/100_1479-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/bolox00/media/duxford08/100_1479-1.jpg.html)
does that answer your question as to how opaque Spit windscreen is?

The "blue" tint on that model (which I think is a Mark IX) is not representative. It's not easy to find in-cockpit images of Mark I and Mark II spits, from the period.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Spitfire_pilot_ready_in_cockpit.jpg
Supermarine Spitfire Mark V, BM202 'ZD-H' "Flying Scotsman" Photo form 1942. No obvious difference in forward glass panel.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3381/3254669289_ec39bc71a1_b.jpg
Modern (2003) photo, possibly with modern window. This is Spitfire Mk.Vb, (G-MKVB), BM597. No obvious difference in forward glass panel.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/425733773_c56a6517bb.jpg
Shuttleworth Collection's AR501. No obvious discoloration (or tint) in forward window.

http://www.bredow-web.de/Spitfire_-_Cockpit.jpg
Mark Vb interior shot, no obvious tint or opacity on front window from this angle

http://images2.jetphotos.net/img/2/9/0/0/51753_1095721009.jpg
PHOUQ - A Mark IX this one has the discolouration (blue tint)

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2001/12/images/detail_spitfire_ix_28.jpg
older photo of a spit IX. There does appear to be some mild opacity in the front v side windows

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/18/article-2263990-17000930000005DC-892_964x405.jpg
Modern photo with Spitfire XIV. Very obvious blue tint in front window from side angle shot

bolox
Sep-06-2013, 11:53
It is a IX- a t9 infact.- good spotting skills:thumbsup:

Just happened to be a pic I had, maybe a better one would be this
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/duxford08/100_1185_zps01e029d3.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/bolox00/media/duxford08/100_1185_zps01e029d3.jpg.html)

angle isn't great(and boy can that make a difference!) and it is modern pic, but shows what I've seen on a variety of Spits (and many other AC fitted with armoured windscreens). To my eye what we have ingame is quite a good approximation of heavily armoured glass. Attempts have been made to clean it up but it tends to end up looking like someone took the glass out.
It's one of a million things we are aware of. It may get revised at a later date (but I wouldn't hold my breath:recon:)

SoW Reddog
Sep-10-2013, 06:14
I was browsing through a few books in Waterstones yesterday and in none of the period (BoB timeframe) photo's where the windscreen was visible did there appear to be this discolouration present. Additionally, the Osprey Spit v 109 book (OK, I know osprey's aren't the greatest source by a long stretch) has a painting of a 109 in the sights of a Spitfire and that is completely clear. Now it could be that the artist didn't have anything to reference and used his imagination/common sense or it might be based on fact.

We could settle this quite easily if someone has access to a real Spitfire pilot and could ask a question!

Oersted
Sep-10-2013, 10:59
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/duxford08/100_1479-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/bolox00/media/duxford08/100_1479-1.jpg.html)


I´m not sure I like the new default TF pilot model! :-)

Eserim
Oct-23-2015, 06:36
Ok - apologies for 1) registering just to post here, 2) Reviving an old thread and 3) posting a picture that initially bears no relevance. However, I found this thread after seeing the blue tint on Spitfire screens on a recent BBC show about the Battle of Britain Flight.

The attached photo is a clock, it is obviously a time keeping clock and not one that ever was in any sort of plane.

This clock was bought by my late father-in-law's parents from a "Glaswegian Spiv" sometime post-war. They were told at the time it was a screen from a Spitfire.

When it came down to us I was sceptical, mainly due to the colour and size. I thought, and in fact still think, if it is anything Spitfire related it is a gun sight glass. But, seeing the blue tint on real planes and then again on this thread

So, what is the opinion here? It measures 9 inches with, by 6 1/8 tall and 7/32 wide - I guess imperial measurements were used when it was made.

19185


Cheers

Eserim

PS - Having discovered this site was related to a game I may even be tempted to have a go - it may make a change from World of Tanks!

philstyle
Oct-28-2015, 08:31
Hi Eserim,
Do you have the details of the BBC show with the blue tinted cockpit glass?

I can't confirm the origins of that clock-face glass in your image... The colouration looks like to cobalt blue glass used in Gin bottles. Quite difference form the green tint in the later spitfire mark armoured glass (which was also much thicker)

Eserim
Oct-28-2015, 14:30
Hi Eserim,
Do you have the details of the BBC show with the blue tinted cockpit glass?

I can't confirm the origins of that clock-face glass in your image... The colouration looks like to cobalt blue glass used in Gin bottles. Quite difference form the green tint in the later spitfire mark armoured glass (which was also much thicker)
Thanks for that - the show was this one (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06knbrn/britains-ultimate-pilots-inside-the-raf-episode-2) several bits , but one at 9.20 showing the front scren more tinted that the side panels.

So what's anyone's thoughts about it being a gun sight?

Eserim