Question for the Blues

[SoW Reddog]

One of the things which is obvious when firing up the FMB is how little of the map we are generally using on any given ATAG mission. Would there be an issue with the Blues having to fly further/longer in order to get into the action or is the need for a quick sortie to Hawkinge too great & ingrained in behaviour?

For example, I'd be interested in getting some action over Portsmouth, Isle of White, and further inland towards London but there's no point in building such a mission if the Blues won't play it because of the longer flight times. I recognise that sometimes all you want to do is have a quick flight before dinner, so the prospect of a sortie over the wider Channel probably doesn't appeal at that point.

I also think that this would impact the Reds and deter them from vulching French Airfields quite as easily.

Of course I'm not advocating every mission being over this distance, just one or two in the rotation.

Please consider this and give me your answers.

[Kling]

I think it would be great idea if there is garanteed action all the way to London.
Salmos mission + a couple of high alt bomber formations should do the trick. Maybe add some of the targets in the London dockyard to be destroyed by carpet combing?

I would love to see some fighting inlands of the coastal airfieds!

[III./ZG76_Saipan]

the further the better for me.....

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Just rename London "Hawkinge"

[Bear Pilot]

I would love to see a long distance mission, personally. However I think there would need to be some special considerations taken into account for it to be as well received as possible.

There needs to be a clear main focus of the mission. Multiple targets on this mission would be too much. Unless it's a target on the Isle of Wight and Tangmere airfield or Portsmouth. Something along those lines. It's just too big an area to have targets spread out along the countryside.

In accordance with the above I think large waves of bombers flying over to hit the targets is also a must. I always feel that a long flight over open water like that is made so much shorter with something to look at, especially a big bomber formation and that's why I think others may be willing to accept it besides it being a welcome change of pace. Time flies even faster flying information with your buddies as escort and if the protection of the bombers is the sole responsibility of the fighters there should be great action.

I see great potential in a mission involving more flight time and a climax as intercepting fighters swarm upon bombers and escorts struggle to keep them at bay. Hey! That actually sounds like a battle over some island I've read about!

In addition and to reiterate some of the above I think that style of mission will depend on several things from the pilots:

The vast majority of players on BOTH sides would need to be on TEAMSPEAK. It is always needed but in this scenario more than ever.

One main objective, possibly a secondary target with in a stone's throw. I say this because even with 50 guys online it's more than likely that they won't all be over the objective and I hate to say it but how many days average at least 50 online at all times?

The mission should be shorter. Maybe there are a pre-determined number of bombers that come over but maybe from mission to mission it varies in number of waves and size in each and hopefully time would vary too as that may become too easy for red to predict. If the reds can weather the storm and keep the target from taking x amount of damage and/or shoot down enough bombers they win. If the target is destroyed, blue wins. Perhaps the total number of bombers changes slightly from mission to mission. Maybe there's a dynamic code for something along those lines. Me no know, not that many brains. :doh:

More reliable radar for the red side would be more immersive I think. Blue just needs to know where the bombers are and when the next wave will leave.

I do know that for myself and a few others at least, the build up to the actual combat is honestly as exciting as the battle itself. Coordinating with other flights, flying in formation in a flight and communicating with another flight about position, tactics should x happen, who has top cover, or trying to manage the throttle to have enough fuel to make it home makes the mission all the more real. Shooting down other pilots is often the least gratifying part of the mission because I know how much effort they put into getting there. A successful, well flown and coordinated team victory is much sweeter to me.

Anywho, just some food for thought.

[indyscout]

One thing to remember is that if there are going to be missions into London for bombing raids and such, the 109's will have to be very fuel conscious. I have never flown from France to London in a 109, so I don't know for sure, but it seems like fuel would be a major concern. I suppose this issue will be remedied if we get a E7 model implemented. It sure is an interesting idea.

[AKA_Recon]

One of the things which is obvious when firing up the FMB is how little of the map we are generally using on any given ATAG mission. Would there be an issue with the Blues having to fly further/longer in order to get into the action or is the need for a quick sortie to Hawkinge too great & ingrained in behaviour?

For example, I'd be interested in getting some action over Portsmouth, Isle of White, and further inland towards London but there's no point in building such a mission if the Blues won't play it because of the longer flight times. I recognise that sometimes all you want to do is have a quick flight before dinner, so the prospect of a sortie over the wider Channel probably doesn't appeal at that point.

I also think that this would impact the Reds and deter them from vulching French Airfields quite as easily.

Of course I'm not advocating every mission being over this distance, just one or two in the rotation.

Please consider this and give me your answers.

Would love it - and yes!!!! (From both a red pilot perspective and a blue pilot perspective)

[III./ZG76_Keller]

I've always had a mission idea that might make everybody happy; if it'd work that is.

Calais to Hawkinge area is for AI bomber hunting and low level furballs. BUT, place both side's objectives in the Cherbourg to Portsmouth area with bomber and fighter bases for both teams in the west. That way the "easy-kill" AI boys and the low-level-over-airfield furball types can have fun in the Calais/Hawkinge area, while the bombers and escort/interceptor fighters can do their thing in the Cherbourg/Portsmouth area.

[SoW Reddog]

My only concern is that no one will go for the objectives.

[Dutch]

My only concern is that no one will go for the objectives.

I like Mr. Keller's way of thinking. The distance from Cherbourg to Portsmouth isn't a great deal more than say Tramecourt to Maidstone, as the crow flies. Opening up the map is something I've been advocating from day one. There just seems to be a bit of a psychological barrier to the idea for some reason.

But I bet all the people who are complaining that DCS Europe 1944 has a map which is too small, have never even thought of flying from corner to corner of the CloD map, whether in a Spit/109 or a Tiger Moth. Or even a He111, let alone a B-17 come to that.

:devilish:

[SoW Reddog]

Well, after a good long chat with Mr Bliss tonight, I can say that at some point in the (hopefully not too distant) future you'll be seeing a whole different bit of England (and France).

[Roblex]

As a Red player I have flown from Tangmere to Cherbourg several times in both fighters and blennys (on the SoW server of course as ATAG does not have the missions) It is not that far and Blue fighters seemed quite happy to do the reverse. It should be added that on that server there were also AI bombers and radar giving intercept vectors so setting out into the wider part of the Channel was not such a 'needle in a haystack' scenario. OTOH the radars refusal to give intercepts for single aircraft did not stop my blenny being constantly spotted at wavetops by 109s half way across, b*stards! :D

I must say that my wrinkled old brain seems to get very confused about bearings in that part of the map. It has been trained that 'the enemy coast is East' and cannot adjust so I am constantly flying the wrong way :D

[9./ZG26Eicken]

I look forward to these new maps coming our way, I hope they stay this time as I remember not to long ago Gruber's mission got taken down because of an extra five minutes of flight time.

Portsmouth will certainly be a nice change of scenery though :)

[SoW Reddog]

I'm working on a London mission at the moment, just so it's not quite such a leap from what we've got now. Hopefully have something to Bliss to look over and check next weekend.

[ATAG_Lolsav]

Suggestion: Use the carrot!

Seriously, this is not a blue or red problem. Its about finding the "fight". If you set a stream of bombers coming or going from London area pilots will eventually find the "fight" zone. So, in this case, the stream of bombers would be the "carrot". I think you got the general idea.

S!

[SoW Reddog]

OK, well I'm pleased to say that the mission I've been working on this week is ready for testing this weekend, hopefully by the 92 Sqn guys.

There are 5 objectives for the blues, knockout RAF Kenley, knockout RAF Biggin Hill (these two use a bomb weight method and both have the majority of the AI bomber flights aimed at them so shouldn't require Blue player intervention unless they want to), some ships and dock installations in London, Oil Storage facilities in Dartford and a factory complex outside Sevenoaks. Not a massively diverse area.
At the minute there's no Red objectives other than survive the mission.

Planesets are 100 octane fighters for the Reds (no spit 2a) and the usual selection of 109's (no N and no B models), 110, Ju 87 +88 and the He111.

There are a whole host of French airfields to choose from to spawn at and I'm looking to implement a script which will disable any red plane crossing the frontline which will be positioned on/near the French coast. The Red's have lots of airfields to spawn from including Kenley and Biggin Hill but will lose those if they don't stop the bombers.

I suspect I need to add a whole lot more flak in to defend the targets, and also more AI bombers. I'm also thinking that I shall reduce the time of the mission to something like 3/4hrs. I also suspect that the 4000kgs of bombs needed to knock out the airfields is too little but we will see.

[Bear Pilot]

OK, well I'm pleased to say that the mission I've been working on this week is ready for testing this weekend, hopefully by the 92 Sqn guys.

There are 5 objectives for the blues, knockout RAF Kenley, knockout RAF Biggin Hill (these two use a bomb weight method and both have the majority of the AI bomber flights aimed at them so shouldn't require Blue player intervention unless they want to), some ships and dock installations in London, Oil Storage facilities in Dartford and a factory complex outside Sevenoaks. Not a massively diverse area.
At the minute there's no Red objectives other than survive the mission.

Planesets are 100 octane fighters for the Reds (no spit 2a) and the usual selection of 109's (no N and no B models), 110, Ju 87 +88 and the He111.

There are a whole host of French airfields to choose from to spawn at and I'm looking to implement a script which will disable any red plane crossing the frontline which will be positioned on/near the French coast. The Red's have lots of airfields to spawn from including Kenley and Biggin Hill but will lose those if they don't stop the bombers.

I suspect I need to add a whole lot more flak in to defend the targets, and also more AI bombers. I'm also thinking that I shall reduce the time of the mission to something like 3/4hrs. I also suspect that the 4000kgs of bombs needed to knock out the airfields is too little but we will see.

4000 kgs does sound a little light as an 88 is capable of delivering 2400 kgs at a time IF dropped accurately. So my only suggestion would be to up the tonnage required.

More importantly, I really want to say thank you for putting the time in and creating a mission that I'm very excited to play when the holidays roll around. Just hearing about differnet areas of operation like London, and areas I'm not entirely sure where they are like Dartford, is a very refreshing change of pace. It's exciting to think I'll have to become acquainted with a different portion of the map and really conserve fuel on the way over!

:dthumb:

[SoW Reddog]

Bear Pilot, you're more than welcome. It strikes me that the community is improved by having more missions to select from and since I'd never be able to contribute to TF work, I might as well try and do this. But beware of thanking me just yet, we have to test it (although I tested 4 out of the 5 triggers last night solo and it all worked pretty well).

[EG14_Marcast]

There are 5 objectives for the blues, knockout RAF Kenley, knockout RAF Biggin Hill (these two use a bomb weight method and both have the majority of the AI bomber flights aimed at them so shouldn't require Blue player intervention unless they want to), some ships and dock installations in London, Oil Storage facilities in Dartford and a factory complex outside Sevenoaks. Not a massively diverse area.
At the minute there's no Red objectives other than survive the mission.



I'm really looking forward to fly this mission, on both sides :thumbsup: