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Dutch
Oct-07-2013, 15:39
Soooo.....the kickstarter went pretty well, but it seems that there's not a lot of upbeat discussion around.:D

I suppose it'd be fair to say that due to the complexity and high fidelity of DCS stuff, more than ever we'll all be sticking to one a/c rather than jumping in and out of different ones all the time.

So what'll it be chaps? What's your poison? Out of the initial planeset available, which one gets your heart pumping fastest? Which will you jump into as soon the game is on your hard drive and why?

Spit IX? T-bolt? 109? 190? 262? Or will you stick with the P-51 you will know so well by then?

Me? My heart says Spit IX, because, well, because it's a Spit. But my head says T-bolt, for all the reasons people think it should be the free to play one.

So whaddya think?

:)

ATAG_Snapper
Oct-07-2013, 15:52
It's the Spittie for me, but I'll certainly want to take the P-47 for a spin! :thumbsup:

ATAG_Colander
Oct-07-2013, 16:14
I'll stick to the 109 although the 262 is calling me :)

ATAG_Bliss
Oct-07-2013, 16:18
Gotta be the 190 to start with, though the ground pounding in the bolt is very enticing. I actually like all the planes they plan to make. So IMO I'll be flying them all and never being good in any of them :D

Mysticpuma
Oct-07-2013, 16:31
I'm sort of a little gutted to be honest :(

I have and always will be a P-47 flyer. I learned it's true worth in IL2 (when it became available) and soon would team up with some superb pilots. We'd fly escort for bombers, Boom and Zoom E/A using double-team tactics (one stays high, the other attacks. If he misses he climbs, you dive, he covers high. If he hits and the enemy chases, you dive and catch him unawares) and also ground pounding (but not often as if you get caught on the deck in a P-47...well you are in trouble!

So there I am, looking forward to seeing the P-47 arrive in DCS and starting my whole new chapter of flying "The Jug"...and everyone chips in with "oh yeah that's the easiest plane for noobs to fly, it's so forgiving....make it the free one!" :(

It's almost like the pleasure has been taken away from me now! I have pledged to get all the aircraft and now it seems that the one I have always loved is seen as easy and 'everyone' who didn't pledge anything at all will get this beauty for free...........HOWEVER.........at-least I'll have a lot more online pilots to team up with ;)


Long live the P-47.....it reminds me of the two girls who live on any street you care to name. One is a true stunner and knows everyone fancies her. The other is (to some eyes) ugly and always second choice, but deep down you know she will try that little bit harder to make you happy...and that's just what the 47 does for me... ;)

Beware my P-47......she's gonna get ya! ;)

Cheers, MP

ATAG_Bliss
Oct-07-2013, 16:46
Well the good thing MP, is when someone says something is easy in DCS that means its only about 10x harder than other sims. I don't think any of these birds will be easy to fly let alone master. That's one of the main reasons a WWII sim in this type of fidelity is such an exiting thought.

Can you imagine the chat bar? "How do I start my plane?" :D

Royraiden
Oct-07-2013, 17:04
Dont worry Mystic, Im sure the Thunderbolt will be a joy to fly.While my absolute favorite is the 109 and I will surely fly the 262 a lot as well, the Thunderbolt is very special to me and I intend to fly it at least as much as my favorite machine.It being free shouldnt take any of the excitement to fly it away from us, as you said that means we will have a lot of guys to team up with and that team work will be needed sooner or later.And as Bliss said, we saying that the 47 will be relatively easy to fly doesnt meant it will be easy at all, just a tiny bit less difficult :)

ATAG_JTDawg
Oct-07-2013, 17:04
Think jug first , then work my way through them , but 262 seems like it could be fun :thumbsup:

Royraiden
Oct-07-2013, 17:06
Well the good thing MP, is when someone says something is easy in DCS that means its only about 10x harder than other sims. I don't think any of these birds will be easy to fly let alone master. That's one of the main reasons a WWII sim in this type of fidelity is such an exiting thought.

Can you imagine the chat bar? "How do I start my plane?" :D

I hit "I" but my plane didnt start up... is this game broken????:grrr:

Tomsk
Oct-07-2013, 17:06
Well the good thing MP, is when someone says something is easy in DCS that means its only about 10x harder than other sims. I don't think any of these birds will be easy to fly let alone master. That's one of the main reasons a WWII sim in this type of fidelity is such an exiting thought.

Can you imagine the chat bar? "How do I start my plane?" :D

Yes, but as a n00b I own DCS P-51D (bought just before the KS, doh!) and I actually find it easier than the planes in CloD. Why? Probably just due to the far far better tutorials. Yes, there is a lot to learn but at least there are some nice guided videos teaching you how to do it. CloD seems to have a "work it out for yourself" kind of approach :-S I'm really hoping they'll continue (and improve) on the training for DCS WWII, one of the best things about the DCS series IMO.

In response to the original question of which plane: I honestly have no idea, I'll probably start with the P-51 because I'll be able to learn that one beforehand. But to be honest I think they've got an awesome set of planes there ... they are all truly historic :)

Catseye
Oct-07-2013, 18:02
Soooo.....the kickstarter went pretty well, but it seems that there's not a lot of upbeat discussion around.:D

I suppose it'd be fair to say that due to the complexity and high fidelity of DCS stuff, more than ever we'll all be sticking to one a/c rather than jumping in and out of different ones all the time.

So what'll it be chaps? What's your poison? Out of the initial planeset available, which one gets your heart pumping fastest? Which will you jump into as soon the game is on your hard drive and why?

Spit IX? T-bolt? 109? 190? 262? Or will you stick with the P-51 you will know so well by then?

Me? My heart says Spit IX, because, well, because it's a Spit. But my head says T-bolt, for all the reasons people think it should be the free to play one.

So whaddya think?

:)

Hi Dutch,
For me, it depends on the fidelity of the avionics and flight model they will come up with. The minimum I would expect is at least equivalent to the existing DCS P51 with hopefully by then additional improvements to it as well.

I love the Spit above all else but my heart is in ground pounding and I truly would love to see the Tiffy or Tempest but alas since it is not on the list the next best for me is the P47 Thunderbolt. What a brute it would be to fly if modeled correctly.

All in all, this is truly a welcome development group in my opinion and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that their business model comes through for them this time around.

Cheers,
Cats . . .

Catseye
Oct-07-2013, 18:10
Well the good thing MP, is when someone says something is easy in DCS that means its only about 10x harder than other sims. I don't think any of these birds will be easy to fly let alone master. That's one of the main reasons a WWII sim in this type of fidelity is such an exiting thought.

Can you imagine the chat bar? "How do I start my plane?" :D

I agree.

I think a lot of folks are going to be suprised when they try to land that bird with the giant torque and exacting approach power required to make it fly at landing speed.

I watched a TV series with the late Geof Ethel flying the P47 and he was very very explicit about having to set it up absolutely correctly on the approach or it would do nasty things to you because of the power. He stated that no power should be applied just prior to the threshold as the torque would roll the aircraft very hard so you had to have the correct power, rpms, pitch and angle of approach as there was little forgiveness if any at all.

I also watched him do rolls at altitude with a P51 simultaneously and the P47 was smooth but lost a bunch of altitude compared to the P51 because of the weight and wing loading difference.

So fie and diddley bobs to those guys who state it's easy to fly as they speaketh as that from the mouths of babes. :)

This should be fun!!

Cheers.

Old_Canuck
Oct-07-2013, 18:19
"Easy to fly" is a relative term in DCS but I will most likely start with the P-47 and hope they record the snap and growl of that radial as we likes it. But definitely all of them - says the guy with the A10 still sitting in the hanger. :)

Chuck_Owl
Oct-07-2013, 18:57
Spit IX for me, definitely. It's been the first aircraft I ever heard about and I always dreamed to fly a real late-mark Spitfire since I was little.

This sim is probably the closest thing I'll ever get to flying the real thing. :)

HaJa
Oct-08-2013, 01:17
I don't know which to select. I have a bias towards the German planes and as I will have the
Alpha the FW190 will be first in my hangar :thumbsup:

Roblex
Oct-08-2013, 03:15
I love the Spit above all else but my heart is in ground pounding and I truly would love to see the Tiffy or Tempest but alas since it is not on the list the next best for me is the P47 Thunderbolt. What a brute it would be to fly if modeled correctly.

Cats . . .

My thoughts exactly. If I could choose just one mount it would be the tempest for both ground attack and dogfighting but it does not seem to be in the pipeline yet. The typhoon has been mentioned as a future addition and I look forward to trying it as ground attack but meanwhile it will have to be the jug for ground pounding and the spit for pure combat.

Greywing
Oct-08-2013, 04:20
I'm getting the DCS world P-51 in a week or so (yay). So it will be that or the Spit IX for me. Kind of depends how much time I have to play between now and the DCS44 alpha and release.

Combat Wombat
Oct-08-2013, 04:43
braking in the spitfire first :recon: just one at a time for me.

Meaks
Oct-08-2013, 05:32
I fancy taking the P-47,the 'old jug',I bet it'll be beautifully modelled just like the P-51 has been crafted,their eye for detail is superb.

Anyone else fancy joining Zemke's Wolfpack ?

Tomsk
Oct-08-2013, 05:55
I agree.

I think a lot of folks are going to be suprised when they try to land that bird with the giant torque and exacting approach power required to make it fly at landing speed.

I watched a TV series with the late Geof Ethel flying the P47 and he was very very explicit about having to set it up absolutely correctly on the approach or it would do nasty things to you because of the power. He stated that no power should be applied just prior to the threshold as the torque would roll the aircraft very hard so you had to have the correct power, rpms, pitch and angle of approach as there was little forgiveness if any at all.


That's interesting, I think I've seen the same program and I don't remember that :) I'm guessing it was this video (Jeff Ethell - Roaring Glory Warbirds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RwPrdAej8

He does say that you have to be careful with your speed at landing. Too little and it would stall (nothing new there), but too much and it would roll off the end of the runway (it's a heavy plane). But he only seemed to have positive things to say about easy the plane was to fly and land.

For example, at 1:10 he says:



It was designed to be lethal to the enemy and kind to the pilot. Just look at how wide that landing gear is. When I first flew the 47 I was astounded at how easy it was to land.


And at 20:16 he says



Pilots could fly a thunderbolt to its limits with no fear of getting in over their head. That's probably the strong point of the airplane, it was one of the simplest to fly, one of the most gentle to fly.

Mysticpuma
Oct-08-2013, 06:02
Now that's just rubbing salt in! :)

Don't worry ny darling P-47...I'll treat you well ;)

322SQN_Dusty
Oct-08-2013, 06:28
Spitfire first, Jug second.

Slightly wondering why the Mk IX and not the Mk XIV was chosen. But Ok, the first fully operational squadrons from the 2nd taf were around December 1944...

ATAG_Jeepy
Oct-08-2013, 06:35
Jug Jug Jug !-)

I`ll wing You MP.. :salute:

Tomsk
Oct-08-2013, 06:44
... says the guy with the A10 still sitting in the hanger. :)

Yeah, I bought DCS A-10C, did all the training, learnt all the various weapons systems and then hardly ever flew it again. I enjoyed Falcon 4, and the A-10A in LOMAC, but with A-10C I just found it the most insanely complicated aircraft ever. And eventually having done all that training, I ended up feeling a bit like a glorified delivery van: dropping GPS guided munitions from high altitude. It seemed less about skill, and more about knowledge, which was less fun to me. In the end that's why I started looking more at WWII planes. Modern jets are beautiful, and sexy, but I'm finding that WWII planes are actually more fun to fly and fight with.


Now that's just rubbing salt in!

Lol. No disrepect to Catseye, I was just slightly surprised by his comment as I remembered Jeff Ethell saying that the P-47 was very forgiving and easy. Indeed, that's probably the main reason that I think of it as an easy aircraft (obviously I've never flown one). So, then I had to rewatch the episode on youtube to see whose impression was most accurate. Of course, we could both be right, and Catseye could be talking about an entirely different episode.

Stryker
Oct-08-2013, 07:02
My favorite AC of all, in all the different sims I have ever played, is the A10 (any model).

For the same reasons I love flying it, the answer to this particular question is, the P-47 .

LG1.Klein
Oct-08-2013, 08:39
It will be the 262 for me as that is the natural progression for my squad. We, 9./ZG26, became part of Kommando Nowotny when it formed.

On my off time I will be flying the P-47 though. The P-51 got me excited about DCS and I really like how they made that aircraft. Though, for some reason, that particular airframe does nothing for me.

Maybe it is because of all the hype around the historical P51, as I read through my history books and watch TV specials, that made me go bleh I'm tired of hearing about it lol. Same with the Spitfire. I'll take a Tempest/Typhoon/Mosquito over it anyday.

Tvrdi
Oct-08-2013, 08:53
http://oi44.tinypic.com/2hcopyt.jpg

ATAG_Torian
Oct-08-2013, 09:01
Can't wait to recreate the "Legend of Y29" (here's a link in case u have lived under a rock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VhrAzJFJo4 )
Hope there's a map with slag heaps and Blue nose skins for the Stangs :D

Cheyenne
Oct-08-2013, 09:05
I will take my favorite the B-17's!!!! Give me a full world map of England to Germany and I will be Happy!!!!!!!

ATAG_Knuckles
Oct-08-2013, 09:47
and make it night time !!

4808

Royraiden
Oct-08-2013, 09:49
I will take my favorite the B-17's!!!! Give me a full world map of England to Germany and I will be Happy!!!!!!!

The Flying Fortress wont be flyable for a while:recon:

ATAG_Headshot
Oct-08-2013, 09:51
Of the current planes I am probably the most excited for the P-47 but my dream for this sim would be to do carrier ops in a Corsair.

Tomsk
Oct-08-2013, 09:59
Can't wait to recreate the "Legend of Y29" (here's a link in case u have lived under a rock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VhrAzJFJo4 )
Hope there's a map with slag heaps and Blue nose skins for the Stangs :D

Ah I love American documentaries they are so totally over the top, it's fantastic (I'm British, our documentaries are a bit more reserved).

9./JG26_Brigg
Oct-08-2013, 15:11
of course the mk ix but i cant wait to get my hands on that jug

Kling
Oct-08-2013, 15:26
I seem to be the only one looking forward to the 109

Mysticpuma
Oct-08-2013, 15:57
Kling, I'm looking forward to the 109.......I like a target rich environment ;)

Catseye
Oct-08-2013, 16:12
That's interesting, I think I've seen the same program and I don't remember that :) I'm guessing it was this video (Jeff Ethell - Roaring Glory Warbirds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RwPrdAej8

He does say that you have to be careful with your speed at landing. Too little and it would stall (nothing new there), but too much and it would roll off the end of the runway (it's a heavy plane). But he only seemed to have positive things to say about easy the plane was to fly and land.

For example, at 1:10 he says:



And at 20:16 he says

Hi Tomsk,

This is an excellent vid you've linked to. It is however, not the same one I was referring to. I'll see if I can locate it and determine if my memory is serving me correct on the landing issues I recall.

In the vid you've referred to, at 11:40 he refers to landing also at 18:20 repeats it and (paraphrasing), if you didn't watch it, it would fall like a rock - maintain at least 130 without turning the aircraft. This, I recall now is what he referred to also in the vid I watched. My excuse is over 50 memory fade :) but at least I got the "be careful on landing" thingy correct. :)

Cheers,

ATAG_Bliss
Oct-08-2013, 16:24
I seem to be the only one looking forward to the 109

Oh I am as well :)

I just have to sit in the Dora 1st. Luckily it will be out a lot earlier :D

Catseye
Oct-08-2013, 17:01
Oh I am as well :)

I just have to sit in the Dora 1st. Luckily it will be out a lot earlier :D

Ah,
Great to have real pilots to aim my aircraft's pointy end at. :)

Tempered
Oct-08-2013, 20:13
I can't read or speak German, so I'm going to have to go with the P-47. Already own the Mustang. Love it, but I'm sure I'll be ready for something new by the time DCS:WW2 is released. I would really have liked to try my hand at the fork tailed devil, p-38. I've not flown many twin engine craft.

Roblex
Oct-09-2013, 02:58
Of the current planes I am probably the most excited for the P-47 but my dream for this sim would be to do carrier ops in a Corsair.

Same here, or maybe a Hellcat. I have a fascination with carrier ops that is at odds with my struggles to land on a carrier safely. One of my previous squadrons taught me a failsafe trick that had me landing confidently every time on escort carriers in gale force winds but I have completely forgotten what that simple trick was now so I am back to square one and counting myself lucky if I walk away alive :-)

Mysticpuma
Oct-09-2013, 03:09
Was it to hit the letter 'A' on the keyboard?

:)

322SQN_Dusty
Oct-09-2013, 05:18
Neh... 'fold wings' over carrier....

Stab/JG1_Britchot
Oct-09-2013, 10:38
I am certainly looking forward to the late model 109, myself. However, the 262 will be fun to learn and not blow myself up trying to taxi to the runway.

indyscout
Oct-09-2013, 12:19
I am gonna have to go with the 109. Though I am defiantly going to do some hunting with the 262.
But the 109 is just so cool looking.
4812

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Oct-09-2013, 14:38
The Flying Fortress wont be flyable for a while:recon:

2 weeks! :)

Tettric
Oct-16-2013, 15:07
I'll be in the Spit until we get a Typhoon or a Tempest V...

Vampyre
Nov-03-2013, 02:09
Until I have the Corsair in the Pacific, for WWII Europe I'm really looking forward to the twin engine aircraft like the Mosquito FB mk IV.

Jaws
Nov-03-2013, 13:15
I should be really excited about the D9, it was my go to ride for many many years in il2. I got burned out. After that I really enjoyed the jug. That's what I'm loking forward to the most. Big fat and ugly Thunderbolt. :)
I'll still fly the d9 until the jug is released though.

If they make, at some point the A model 190, now that's a plane I'd like to get my hands on. Four cannons are. always better than two.....if you can't shoot worth a damn. :)

Mysticpuma
Nov-03-2013, 14:15
The P-47....ahhhhh.....lets' hope the 50-cals aren't 'porked' whaa:popcorn2:

9./JG52_J-HAT
Nov-03-2013, 15:54
For me it's going to be the P-47 and Me 262, not necesseraly in any order! I just love these two planes!

BTW: the P-47 cockpit in the last update sure looks better than the Il-2 one... :)

Revvin
Nov-03-2013, 16:10
The Spit will be the one I will want to learn and fully enjoy in all its DCS glory, I'd like to fly the Thunderbolt for delivering ordnance and the 262 just because it's different and I used to fly it occasionally in Warbirds when it entered the rolling plane set. I do have some concerns for the Spit having read Yoyo's comments on its handling. I'm no expert on flight models but surely scores of past sim developers could not have all got it wrong? Could the pilots who flew them who say it was a joy to fly, that it was like becoming part of the plane also be wrong and the Spitfire was really a beast to fly as Yoyo suggests?

gavagai
Nov-09-2013, 09:52
The Spit will be the one I will want to learn and fully enjoy in all its DCS glory, I'd like to fly the Thunderbolt for delivering ordnance and the 262 just because it's different and I used to fly it occasionally in Warbirds when it entered the rolling plane set. I do have some concerns for the Spit having read Yoyo's comments on its handling. I'm no expert on flight models but surely scores of past sim developers could not have all got it wrong? Could the pilots who flew them who say it was a joy to fly, that it was like becoming part of the plane also be wrong and the Spitfire was really a beast to fly as Yoyo suggests?

Lots of pilots said the Mustang was a joy to fly, but that is due to many hours experience learning its handling qualities. In reality, the laminar flow wing gave it terrible stall characteristics. So, if it's possible for pilots to give misleading accounts of P-51 handling, it is also possible for the Spitfire.

In my opinion, if you like the Spitfire, then you should welcome the challenge of flying something more like the real thing, and not the hero-plane facsimile we had in Il-2 1946, or Warbirds, or Aces High 2. In those sims the Spitfire is the go-to plane for pilots who know nothing about BFM and think energy management means turning off lights and appliances in their home. I can already feel a big difference between the Clod Spitfire and those other sims; can't you?

ATAG_Snapper
Nov-09-2013, 12:24
The proof is in the pudding, so we'll see where YoYo takes us. Hard for the sake of hard doesn't necessarily make for realism. There are dozens of accounts by first time Spit pilots who described how easy and forgiving it was to fly. The English countryside was not littered with Spitfire carcasses flown by first-time or low-time pilots caught unawares. IMHO the challenge should be in flying it well. It'll be up against top-of-the-line 109's and 190's. Beating THEM should be the hard part, not hamstrung by a plane that blacks you out if you move the joystick a hair past YoYo's 3/4" dictum.

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Nov-09-2013, 12:48
The proof is in the pudding, so we'll see where YoYo takes us. Hard for the sake of hard doesn't necessarily make for realism. There are dozens of accounts by first time Spit pilots who described how easy and forgiving it was to fly. The English countryside was not littered with Spitfire carcasses flown by first-time or low-time pilots caught unawares. IMHO the challenge should be in flying it well. It'll be up against top-of-the-line 109's and 190's. Beating THEM should be the hard part, not hamstrung by a plane that blacks you out if you move the joystick a hair past YoYo's 3/4" dictum.

Have to admit when the post went up about how hard the spit will be to fly and everyone will have a shock....

why?

Cant remember reading anywhere that the Spitty was hard to fly... Bit strange why that was said

gavagai
Nov-09-2013, 13:09
YoYo's 3/4" dictum.

According to Yo-Yo, that is figure is from an NACA report. You make it look as if it is something he deduced by himself.

ATAG_Snapper
Nov-09-2013, 13:27
According to Yo-Yo, that is figure is from an NACA report. You make it look as if it is something he deduced by himself.

Let's wait and see what he comes up with, shall we?

Dutch
Nov-09-2013, 13:40
According to Yo-Yo, that is figure is from an NACA report. You make it look as if it is something he deduced by himself.

My tuppence-ha'penny here, is that it's a common Spitfire anecdote that simply squeezing the stick between finger and thumb, first with mainly thumb, then with mainly finger, was enough to initiate a slight dive or climb respectively. I think it was in Bungay's book too.

I believe Yo-yo's comment to be directed at the 'yank and bank' school of 'flight-simmers', rather than a statement of 'the Spitfire was difficult to fly'. It probably will be difficult to fly for computer pilots. For The Flying Horsemen, maybe not so much.

I remember reading that the best pilots were either musicians or horseriders, both of which require subtle pressures as opposed to violent movements. Makes you think, eh? :thumbsup:

Revvin
Nov-09-2013, 14:09
The proof is in the pudding, so we'll see where YoYo takes us. Hard for the sake of hard doesn't necessarily make for realism. There are dozens of accounts by first time Spit pilots who described how easy and forgiving it was to fly. The English countryside was not littered with Spitfire carcasses flown by first-time or low-time pilots caught unawares. IMHO the challenge should be in flying it well. It'll be up against top-of-the-line 109's and 190's. Beating THEM should be the hard part, not hamstrung by a plane that blacks you out if you move the joystick a hair past YoYo's 3/4" dictum.

Well said, making things hard just to try and make it seem realistic is not the answer

9./JG52 Ziegler
Nov-09-2013, 19:22
The 190 has always been my favorite looking piston WW2 warplane. I'm looking forward to it. The P47 Jug is another love of mine and is a massive brute. And of course my trusty 109 which I saw recently at the RAF Museum at Hendon, London next to a P47. It looked like a midget. :thumbsup:

Good analogy Dutch with the finesse touch for flying. I remember my fixed wing instructor telling me that the plane was designed to fly and flew better by itself than you (me) jerking it around. It only requires a series of small corrections to fly it. Correct, neutralize, correct, neutralize was drilled into our heads.

Cybermat47
Nov-09-2013, 21:19
I hope the P-47 is free. I loved the short film Not My Time To Die, which I think Mystic Puma made.

It's a shame that I can't donate to the kickstarter, but I think that Atlantic Warfare will need more help...

Broodwich
Nov-12-2013, 23:55
the Spitfire is the go-to plane for pilots who know nothing about BFM and think energy management means turning off lights and appliances in their home

rofl

VO101_Kurfurst
Nov-13-2013, 12:29
Well obviously.....


http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109K/Bf-109K-JG3.11-(Y1+I)-Deskau/images/1-Bf-109K4-11.JG3-(Y1+I)-Martin-Deskau-WNr334176-Pasewalk-1945-01.jpg

ATAG_Flare
Dec-28-2013, 18:01
Bf. 109K, definitely. With the clear-view Erla canopy, I'll be unbeatable! But of course, I'll also fly my favourite aircraft of all time, the Spitfire.

flare2000x