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View Full Version : New Mission Idea - the "Equal Opportunity Mid-Channel Massacre"



92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-09-2013, 10:06
Here's the concept drivers;

1. Move the battle to a new area of the map
2. provide approximately equivalent targets for each team
3. Minimise the boredom of flight time over the wider part of the channel

Here's the mission;

Approximately two fleets of ships (1 British, 1 German), each numbering around 50 ships are located in the channel between Le Harve and the Isle of Wight. The ships steam towards a meeting point approximately mid-way across the water, ~equidistant from the nearest fighter bases of the Luftwaffe and RAF. Once the ships meet, the can either mill about in that location, or pass each other.

4811

The closer the ships get to enemy territory, the harder they become to defend, and obviosly the easier it becomes to destroy the enemy ships.

The team that wins is the first team to nail all the enemy ships.


Do people think this idea is worth building on to make a mission for the server?
Are there any additional things you would add?
Are there specific planes-sets that would be best?
How long should the mission run. Remember, ships move at, or less than 10 miles per hour [20 mph closing speed when head-on), so they would likely start 40 to 80 miles apart, or so?

Feedback and impressions is/are appreciated.

DRock
Oct-09-2013, 10:23
Sounds good, Phil.:thumbsup:

I would make sure that a couple of the ships have AAA, to defend themselves when the server isn't so busy.

This map would create some pretty good dogfights, I imagine.



Cheers,
ATAG_DRock

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Oct-09-2013, 10:34
Yes ships AAA would be good.

Also an attrition for the airfields OR percentage damaged like we have now which would encourage CAP flights. Failure to protect bases will result in longer flight times which equates to no protection over ships = mission lost

Gives a bit more of a realistic edge to it

EG14_Marcast
Oct-09-2013, 11:07
I always liked the idea of a pure convoy attack mission, but I never thought to a double attack....will the two fleets mix together at the meeting point? Ships look exactly the same in CloD, blue or red, there will be any way to recognize them?

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-09-2013, 11:12
....will the two fleets mix together at the meeting point? Ships look exactly the same in CloD, blue or red, there will be any way to recognize them?

This, I did not think of! Well spotted....

I might have to separate the fleets by, say, 1 mile or so.... Thanks for pointing this out!

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-09-2013, 11:13
I would make sure that a couple of the ships have AAA, to defend themselves when the server isn't so busy.


Yes, I would ensure there are AA-armed ships.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-09-2013, 11:15
Also an attrition for the airfields OR percentage damaged like we have now which would encourage CAP flights. Failure to protect bases will result in longer flight times which equates to no protection over ships = mission lost

This could be done by allowing the knock-out of the enemy forward-most bomber bases. Destroying the bases would not be a victory condition, but would make it difficult for the enemy to win.

This would add an extra option for the players, who wanted to disrupt the enemy.

EG14_Marcast
Oct-09-2013, 11:45
Consider also that Germans have an advantage. Blenheim can carry only 4 bombs by 250 Kg., while a Ju88 can have 28 more bombs by 50 Kg., two of which can be enough to sink a ship. This means that (not considering the fighters' "disturb" and pilots' skill) the reds are forced to more back-and-forth trips to sink the same number of ships. On the other hand, it' s true that usually there are more Blenheim pilots than Ju88's, so it can be a fair game anyway. It could really be a nice mission.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-09-2013, 11:54
Consider also that Germans have an advantage. Blenheim can carry only 4 bombs by 250 Kg., while a Ju88 can have 28 more bombs by 50 Kg., .

I think I can set the weapon load outs in the mission so that both sides have similar bomb-load.
The JU-88 is faster, but there's nothing really that can be done about that.

I think Blenheims v JU88s would work for bombers (no 109b versions, and fighter 110s only).

Probably fighter plane-set would be mostly

109 E1, E3 and E4 with E4/N at a single rear base, and
Hurricane 100 octane rotal, spitfire 100 octane 1a rotol with Spitfire 2a at a single rear base.

ATAG_Lolsav
Oct-09-2013, 11:58
If the problem is the 50kgs bomb on JU88 just restrict the loadout. And the aircraft could be used to do high altitude bombing.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-09-2013, 11:59
If the problem is the 50kgs bomb on JU88 just restrict the loadout.

yup, see my reply above.

ATAG_Lolsav
Oct-09-2013, 12:04
yup, see my reply above.

I took too long to reply :S

ATAG_Bliss
Oct-10-2013, 03:38
Here's the concept drivers;

1. Move the battle to a new area of the map
2. provide approximately equivalent targets for each team
3. Minimise the boredom of flight time over the wider part of the channel

Here's the mission;

Approximately two fleets of ships (1 British, 1 German), each numbering around 50 ships are located in the channel between Le Harve and the Isle of Wight. The ships steam towards a meeting point approximately mid-way across the water, ~equidistant from the nearest fighter bases of the Luftwaffe and RAF. Once the ships meet, the can either mill about in that location, or pass each other.

4811

The closer the ships get to enemy territory, the harder they become to defend, and obviosly the easier it becomes to destroy the enemy ships.

The team that wins is the first team to nail all the enemy ships.


Do people think this idea is worth building on to make a mission for the server?
Are there any additional things you would add?
Are there specific planes-sets that would be best?
How long should the mission run. Remember, ships move at, or less than 10 miles per hour [20 mph closing speed when head-on), so they would likely start 40 to 80 miles apart, or so?

Feedback and impressions is/are appreciated.

Lovin' the idea, Phil. Variety is the spice of life! Build it and they will come. :thumbsup:

If you want to have a go with things like Reddog is doing or change up some of my stuff as a template, go for it as well!

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-10-2013, 04:53
Lovin' the idea, Phil. Variety is the spice of life! Build it and they will come. :thumbsup:

If you want to have a go with things like Reddog is doing or change up some of my stuff as a template, go for it as well!

cheers Bliss. appreciate the support

DRock
Oct-10-2013, 12:27
Explain in the briefing the direction of travel of friendly convoy. This will make them identifiable when approaching them. No special flags or markings needed. Also flak will tell you which convoy you're attacking.

Good work, Phil. Thank you.:thumbsup:


Cheers,
ATAG_DRock

Roblex
Oct-10-2013, 15:07
I have always seen the 110 as being the German version of the Blenheim. Twin engine with rear gunner and no real level bombing ability. Take away the forward guns on both and restrict the bombloads and they are a good match.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-10-2013, 15:22
I have always seen the 110 as being the German version of the Blenheim. Twin engine with rear gunner and no real level bombing ability. Take away the forward guns on both and restrict the bombloads and they are a good match.

there's an option...

No.54 Ghost (KL-G)
Oct-10-2013, 15:27
cannon fodder....

Bear Pilot
Oct-10-2013, 15:40
IMHO the blue side bombers should be limited to the 110 C-4 and C-7 with no restrictions on loadouts and the Stuka. The Blenheim can hit 4 ships at a time whereas the 110 and Stuka can only hit 2 in a sortie. I guess some would argue it wouldn't be exactly fair but neither is war and if it's relatively close mission after mission then it won't be a big deal.

Also no 109 jabos. Maybe even just the E-4 and 1a 100oct for a true Kanalkampf feel? I personally don't care for the IIa or 109N in most missions as neither one is very representative historically and sometimes they seem to incite red vs. blue finger pointing shenanigans.

Much will come down to strategy and teamwork.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

*I know the C-4 doesn't carry bombs but there is a difference in performance even when you take the bomb rack off the C-7 so it would be convenient for those who enjoy it if it were also included

DRock
Oct-10-2013, 15:45
The BF109 E3-B and E3-4 carry bombs. And fast, too.

This may level the playing field with four bombs on Blenheims.



ATAG_DRock

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-10-2013, 15:50
The BF109 E3-B and E3-4 carry bombs. And fast, too.

This may level the playing field with four bombs on Blenheims.
ATAG_DRock

I am not of this opinion. 109s can evade interception in a way that blenheims cannot

1lokos
Oct-10-2013, 19:01
True.

Your original ideal in use Blenheim and Ju-88 (with limited loadout) is fine. :thumbsup:

Sokol1

ATAG_Bliss
Oct-11-2013, 02:19
IMHO the blue side bombers should be limited to the 110 C-4 and C-7 with no restrictions on loadouts and the Stuka. The Blenheim can hit 4 ships at a time whereas the 110 and Stuka can only hit 2 in a sortie. I guess some would argue it wouldn't be exactly fair but neither is war and if it's relatively close mission after mission then it won't be a big deal.

Also no 109 jabos. Maybe even just the E-4 and 1a 100oct for a true Kanalkampf feel? I personally don't care for the IIa or 109N in most missions as neither one is very representative historically and sometimes they seem to incite red vs. blue finger pointing shenanigans.

Much will come down to strategy and teamwork.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

*I know the C-4 doesn't carry bombs but there is a difference in performance even when you take the bomb rack off the C-7 so it would be convenient for those who enjoy it if it were also included

I like this idea.. Seems pretty fair considering the frontal weapons of the 110 compared to the Blenheim. :thumbsup:

EG14_Marcast
Oct-11-2013, 06:03
I like this idea.. Seems pretty fair considering the frontal weapons of the 110 compared to the Blenheim. :thumbsup:

I don't agree on this. It's about a convoy attack that we are talking, and 110's guns are totally uneffective against ships. What counts is the number of bombs, and we have 2 bombs on the 110 versus 4 on the Blenheim. The fair game is the Blenheim vs. Ju88 with loadout limited to 4 external 250 kg. bombs.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-11-2013, 07:53
The fair game is the Blenheim vs. Ju88 with loadout limited to 4 external 250 kg. bombs.

that is the closest to fair that I think we can get.

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Oct-11-2013, 08:18
Axis- 110 & Stuka
Allies- Blenny

At least give the Axis something decent to bomb with too...Yea yea I know but 'come-on' don't just give them the Stuka

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-11-2013, 09:33
.Yea yea I know but 'come-on' don't just give them the Stuka

The intention is to give Blue the JU88, not the stuka (JU87). The JU88, despite being faster than the Blenheim, is the most like-for-like, performance wise. It has an increased bomb load, but this can be set by the mission maker to nearly match the Blenheim.

I might include, just for variation, a JU87 stuka base at the Luftwaffe rear, for those who simply cannot bear to play without them.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-12-2013, 10:00
Due to some recent activity on the forums, it is also my intention to add some "dummy" AI bombers that will spawn in and Not contribute to the mission outcomes, but just for those people who have requested such aircraft be present in the missions.

I apologise to those people who think this will detract from the mission objectives. However I guess there should be always something going on somewhere anyways... to simulate a more rich environment and provide some variety for players who are not strictly interested in mission objectives, or who would like something to do when the server is nearly empty.

Kling
Oct-12-2013, 10:58
Due to some recent activity on the forums, it is also my intention to add some "dummy" AI bombers that will spawn in and Not contribute to the mission outcomes, but just for those people who have requested such aircraft be present in the missions.

I apologise to those people who think this will detract from the mission objectives. However I guess there should be always something going on somewhere anyways... to simulate a more rich environment and provide some variety for players who are not strictly interested in mission objectives, or who would like something to do when the server is nearly empty.

Now this sounds like a great idea to me!! :)

AKA_Recon
Oct-13-2013, 08:19
Sounds like a suicide mission for Blenheim pilots such as myself :)

It's hard enough hitting targets defended by a single 109, imagine trying to fly in to destroy ships with that entire area being the main combat zone!

But, I will certainly try it!!! Just pray for many escorts to help!

As far as bombers:


The fair game is the Blenheim vs. Ju88 with loadout limited to 4 external 250 kg. bombs.

It's fun flying during europe timezone on the weekends because there are so many pilots, the I can always find escort - I seriously would give medal of honor to any fighter that escorts a Blenny - they are saints !!!!

But in my timezone, we don't get many pilots typically.



Due to some recent activity on the forums, it is also my intention to add some "dummy" AI bombers that will spawn in and Not contribute to the mission outcomes, but just for those people who have requested such aircraft be present in the missions.

I apologise to those people who think this will detract from the mission objectives. However I guess there should be always something going on somewhere anyways... to simulate a more rich environment and provide some variety for players who are not strictly interested in mission objectives, or who would like something to do when the server is nearly empty.

I disagree to the having random AI. If those guys want to fly offline and shoot bombers down that have no effect on the missions, then so be it. But if you add these AI, then those fighters won't escort and help with the mission objectives ???

EG14_Marcast
Oct-14-2013, 06:27
I disagree to the having random AI. If those guys want to fly offline and shoot bombers down that have no effect on the missions, then so be it. But if you add these AI, then those fighters won't escort and help with the mission objectives ???

In fact, AIs are dangerous for that....fighters' guys could concentrate on shooting down AIs and ignore "escort duties". Could at least AI planes be low level convoy attacks? Ideal could be torpedo attacks performed by He115 on the blue side, but I don't know if there is a plane on the red side able to do the same, maybe the Sunderland? And there should be a way to limit AIs when there are enough players.

Gromit
Oct-28-2013, 06:25
there's an option...

Go the other way, lets have just blenny iv/ivF and 110/Ju88's no single engine, battle of Biscay style lol!

EG14_Marcast
Oct-28-2013, 07:03
Go the other way, lets have just blenny iv/ivF and 110/Ju88's no single engine, battle of Biscay style lol!

A good idea, to see something different from the same Spit/109 dogfight. Apart from the armament, I think that Blenheim and bf110 performances should be comparable.

9./JG52_J-HAT
Oct-28-2013, 07:04
I like the idea of just having twin engine bombers, no fighter bombers. It will make for nice dogfights between escorts or maybe even 110s and Blennies!

Maybe the Ju 88 would be overkill. One kann destroy more than 30 Ships with a single Ju 88 if it remains untouched and all bombs hit.
Limiting the loadout could be a good solution (4 ships per Ju 88 with external stores only - as much as the Blennie AFAIK).

Uwe
Oct-29-2013, 02:04
So, basically Operation Cerberus?
Sounds good to me.