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Little_D
Oct-10-2013, 08:10
Hi gents,

i was thinking about a map with no A.I. Bombers, no fighterbombers ( E3/B, E4/B, Me110C7 )to generate maby mutch more fun. here some points that help me to explane it better and make it mabe easyer to understand what i mean :-):

1. A.I. Bomber:

a) in the moment we have bomberformations with 5 - 9 bombers, that will never generate the fealing of BoB, for this we would need formation about 27 or more bombers, but this is not possible because of CoD. i think even a bomberformation like
3 x 9 bombers with little distance on the same curse with the same target is not possible.
b) the bombers are to easy to kill and as it is now it makes no sence to escord this smal bomberformation, maby they are good to find some fighters at high alt, but nothing more. even with more than 4 109`s it is not possible to bring them to the target and back home when more than 2 reds find your bomberformation.
c) the gunners of the bombers are not strong enough, wish they where snipers like in 1946, with this, this stupit 6 a clock killingparty would be over. and even with the sniper gunners from 1946 it was easy to kill bombers with the right tactic.

2. no fighterbombers:

a). fighterbombers come short after BoB, first with Erprobungsgruppe 210 in the beginning with 110 and than with 109`s too. so not realy fitting into the timeframe.
b) it destroy the gameplay, specialy for bomber/stuka pilots when bomber / Stuka targets getting killd by fighterbombers and you as bomber/stuka pilot take you the time to climbe to alt and fly 30min. - 45min. to reach a bomber/stuka target that get killed by fighterbombers short before you reach it.
c) if you need the fighterbomber, than put it into a late BoB map where also the Spit MK II and Me 109E4/N is.

3.generally:

a) most people i know fly online because of fighting against other human and not against A.I., for this is singleplayer.
b) escorting A.I. bombers, even when important for the mission is borring and makes no sence, see point 1., it is A.I. why i should care about them?
c) A.I. splits the tasks to mutch out, red and blue have in the moment to protect there own targets, escort human bombers, fly cap over enemy targets, fly cap over own hombases to stop the vulching gamekillers and have to escort A.I. bomberformations, this are to mutch tasks.
d) A.I. Bomberformations smal or big ones are for special events like a Bombernight and not for a normal onlinemap.


with no A.I. bombers all pilots that escort now A.I. bomber would be free to escort the human bomber and make the life of them mutch easyer and for a fighter it is mutch more a challenge to escort a humen flown bomber than A.I. when A.I. get killed its like ok he is down, but when i human fighter lost his human bomber it is mutch more a loose than A.I and he will think about a solution to bring the human bomber next time save to target and back home. and maby the human bombers would take the part of creating a bomberformation.

hope you all get what i mean, sorry but i dont know how i could explane it better, maby i should talk with Phil about this so he can write it with the correct words :) and this are only my 2 cents.

regards

Little_D

SoW Reddog
Oct-10-2013, 08:58
I know what you mean Little D. The problem I think though is that the AI are there to compensate for a few things.

1) Low player numbers. If there's only 5 players in a server, then its either a dogfight fest or completely boring and uneventful as they miss each other.
2) The lack of any really structured player bombing raids. I've seen plenty of players fly a bomber, and indeed a few fly together, but they are never in "proper" formations, and usually seem to favour the dive bomb/dive+glide approach which again isn't typically BoB.
3) The size of the map. With lots of objectives, you get a lot of spreading out.

I'd love nothing more than to fly against all Humans but I think it would only really work in a Storm of War Thursday mission type affair, where there's a single objective scenario. I wouldn't say no to seeing such a thing here on ATAG, but it would perhaps be a little too prescriptive for the general public and go against some of the ATAG ethos.

Its worth thinking about and seeing if there's enough interest to try this out. Variety is the spice of life after all.

EG14_Marcast
Oct-10-2013, 10:09
I know what you mean Little D. The problem I think though is that the AI are there to compensate for a few things.

1) Low player numbers. If there's only 5 players in a server, then its either a dogfight fest or completely boring and uneventful as they miss each other.
2) The lack of any really structured player bombing raids. I've seen plenty of players fly a bomber, and indeed a few fly together, but they are never in "proper" formations, and usually seem to favour the dive bomb/dive+glide approach which again isn't typically BoB.
3) The size of the map. With lots of objectives, you get a lot of spreading out.

I'd love nothing more than to fly against all Humans but I think it would only really work in a Storm of War Thursday mission type affair, where there's a single objective scenario. I wouldn't say no to seeing such a thing here on ATAG, but it would perhaps be a little too prescriptive for the general public and go against some of the ATAG ethos.

Its worth thinking about and seeing if there's enough interest to try this out. Variety is the spice of life after all.

I agree with this answer. Just one point: it's true, most of raids are in glide bombing mode. It happens because it's easier (especially when you sit in your comfortable chair and you don't care of the 90% rate of losses from the deadly flak), but also because of the clouds at very low levels that make altitude bombing very hard. Once in Op. Homeplate, particularly fitted for altitude bombing, clouds ceiling was below 1000 mt.. I understand that it's over England that we are flying, :) but a little bit better weather could allow a different approach. I've seen that in next version of Op. HP there will be a weather report, this will help.