109 convergence

[indyscout]

So put simply, how does it work. I have my convergence set at 400 horizontal and 200 vertical for the wing guns. I am told that this means the guns are set to converge at 200m, but how? If horizontal is 400 wouldnt that mean it will converge at 400m? I ask this because I generally shoot way inside 200, generally at 150m or less. I would like to set my convergence for 150, but I am unsure of what values to put in.
Any help is appreciated
-Indy

Image that demonstrates the 400x200 convergance:
4905

[DUI]

I never thought about it but what the image shows:

If you set the vertical convergences of all weapons (nose and wings) to 400 m then there are two vertical points where the bullets hit the same spot: when the bullets are still in a climb at 200 m and when they are already in a fall at 400 m.

In the image the horizontal convergence of the wing-mounted guns is set to 200 m and the one of the nose-mounted to 400 m. This leads to the following results:
- For the wing-mounted guns there is only one convergence-spot at 200 m.
- For the nose-mounted guns there is only one convergence-spot at 400 m where the bullets hit the same spot. But at 200 m and beyond the bullets are already hitting a very small area.


I have my convergence set at 400 horizontal and 200 vertical for the wing guns.
If you want to have the convergence of your wing guns set to 200 m then you would have to set the horizontal convergence to 200 m and the vertical one to 200 m or 400 m. Not the other way round. ;)

[Karaya]

Got all of my guns set to 200/200 which works fine for me and provides a fair compromise between range and close in concentration of firepower. Firing at distances of 400m to me seems like a no-brainer, especially with the rather poor ballistics of the low-velocity MGFF cannons. Having said that the wing guns are the primary reason I like later marks of the Bf109 a lot more, you just dont have to mess around with convergence.

[Davis0079]

if you notice in the picture...the numbers are setup to read MG400/400 Cannon200/400....but that does not mean that you are setup for 400 meter shots.....everything converges at 200meters...thats what you are setting yourself up for by using this setup, a 200 meter shot...


when running in on a target, use the MGs at distance to lead yourself in...then at range open up with the cannons for the kill.....and I normally dont use my cannons for fighters until I damage them first and make them easy kills....

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

Got all of my guns set to 200/200 which works fine for me and provides a fair compromise between range and close in concentration of firepower. Firing at distances of 400m to me seems like a no-brainer, especially with the rather poor ballistics of the low-velocity MGFF cannons. Having said that the wing guns are the primary reason I like later marks of the Bf109 a lot more, you just dont have to mess around with convergence.

I'm close to same at 250/200. Seems to work all around pretty well. :thumbsup:

[1lokos]

So put simply, how does it work. I have my convergence set at 400 horizontal and 200 vertical for the wing guns. I am told that this means the guns are set to converge at 200m, but how? If horizontal is 400 wouldnt that mean it will converge at 400m?

The question with this German drawing are: they are set for hit a 200 meter or 400 meter?

At 200 meter you have one spot where bullets an shells intersect, but slight (?) above line of sight.
At 400 meter you have tree spots, spaced 2,25 meter each - at this distance cannons shells are diverging, MG bullets converging - but over line of sight.
Setting against bombers?

Sokol1

[Davis0079]

in that drawing there I am under the impression that they are setting up for a 200 meter shot.....+/-10 meters for acceptable convergence funnel...meaning that at 185-190 meters the shells are close enough together (normally a 1 meter circle) to be considered the correct range, and up to 210/215 meters they should still be together....



the further out you set your shot up for the bigger the +/- kill funnel....so setting my cannons at 600 meters will mean that once the shells get down range they will actually fly close together for a longer period of time......but setting your cannons at 100 meters means that they will only be in the acceptable kill zone for a short period of time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kJKSuF6sKI this video shows what I'm talking about....he calls it the "window"


close up convergence is good...but you lose 100% effectiveness at range.....medium convergence is good at medium and long range and still will kill at close range....with this in mind...thats why its not bad doing the 400/400 200/400 setup....its a good compromise for the system, good close in damage, but can still hit at range when needed (like ground attack...close in convergence leads to ground collisions)

P.S. I set mine so the kill window is between 125m and 150m...thats a good for bombers and will still shread fighters close in....

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

The question with his German drawing are: they are set for hit a 200 meter or 400 meter?

At 200 meter you have one spot where bullets an shells converge, but slight (?) above line of sight.
At 400 meter you have tree spots, spaced 2,25 meter each - at this distance cannons shells are diverging, MG bullets converging - but over line of sight.
Setting against bombers?

Sokol1

Always confused my tiny lil mind this diagram.. I don't understand the vertical in this... The 200m is where all the bullets will hit (the cone) so what exactly are they doing at 400m and why would you set them so? Surely you want them at either 200 or 400 so all the firepower is meeting at one spot?

[Bear Pilot]

Always confused my tiny lil mind this diagram.. I don't understand the vertical in this... The 200m is where all the bullets will hit (the cone) so what exactly are they doing at 400m and why would you set them so? Surely you want them at either 200 or 400 so all the firepower is meeting at one spot?

Vertical is to account for the bullet/shell dropping :thumbsup:

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

Vertical is to account for the bullet/shell dropping :thumbsup:

Yes I understand that's what the vertical aspect means what I'm trying to say is that if the vertical distance (400) is larger than the horizontal distance (200) then you wont get the crossover (cone) mean spot at the 400? especially so for all wing mounted cannons? So at 400 your ammo impact would be more a horizontal line across a wing for example as opposed to one spot?

Or am I missing something here

[Bear Pilot]

Yes I understand that's what the vertical aspect means what I'm trying to say is that if the vertical distance (400) is larger than the horizontal distance (200) then you wont get the crossover (cone) mean spot at the 400? especially so for all wing mounted cannons? So at 400 your ammo impact would be more a horizontal line across a wing for example as opposed to one spot?

Or am I missing something here

I think I see what you're saying.

There are a few reasons why a lot of guys, myself included, set up the cannons and mg's of the 109 so that they don't all meet at exactly one spot. Hopefully the following will show why.

1. I set my cannons to 400 vertical 200 horizontal. I do this because there is no reason for me to take a shot with the cannon from any farther than 200 meters. They are too few and too precious to be spraying around. But I have gotten to the point where I know just when to pull the trigger to score hits around the 180-200m range.

2. I set my mg's to 400 vertical and 1000 horizontal (that's as far as the game will allow). I do this because the mg's are only 18 inches apart so horizontally convergence is not an issue.

3. The key in having them both set to the same vertical of 400 meters is that at 200 meters the mg's and cannon shells almost converge perfectly. Some error isn't necessarily a bad thing because unless you hold the same speed as your opponent, the distance between you and him will most likely change very rapidly.

4. From a practical standpoint, 400m vertical seems to have a very natural feel to it. I've experimented with it and sometimes even a difference of 100m +/- causes me to miss down range. Usually just barely but I've squeezed off good bursts at vertical convergences other than 400 and thought I nailed them and it turns out they all went just over or just under him. For me, 400m is just what looks and produces them best results in the sight.

Increasing the vertical can help in leading targets but this is more useful in red fighters as a 109 shouldn't be doing too much turn fighting anyway.

To sum it up, I set the cannon to 200m horizontal because I just know through experience when I have the green light to open up and be effective. Horizontal mg's don't need to converge at all honestly but 1000m is the most we plug in. Vertically, 400m for both just feels right and mg's and cannon almost meet at 200m which is exactly when I like to open up.

Long pot shots at running fighters or trying to take out bomber gunners excluded of course.

So no, they don't all hit at one spot but it seems to be a pretty good compromise.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

I think I see what you're saying.

There are a few reasons why a lot of guys, myself included, set up the cannons and mg's of the 109 so that they don't all meet at exactly one spot. Hopefully the following will show why.

1. I set my cannons to 400 vertical 200 horizontal. I do this because there is no reason for me to take a shot with the cannon from any farther than 200 meters. They are too few and too precious to be spraying around. But I have gotten to the point where I know just when to pull the trigger to score hits around the 180-200m range.

2. I set my mg's to 400 vertical and 1000 horizontal (that's as far as the game will allow). I do this because the mg's are only 18 inches apart so horizontally convergence is not an issue.

3. The key in having them both set to the same vertical of 400 meters is that at 200 meters the mg's and cannon shells almost converge perfectly. Some error isn't necessarily a bad thing because unless you hold the same speed as your opponent, the distance between you and him will most likely change very rapidly.

4. From a practical standpoint, 400m vertical seems to have a very natural feel to it. I've experimented with it and sometimes even a difference of 100m +/- causes me to miss down range. Usually just barely but I've squeezed off good bursts at vertical convergences other than 400 and thought I nailed them and it turns out they all went just over or just under him. For me, 400m is just what looks and produces them best results in the sight.

Increasing the vertical can help in leading targets but this is more useful in red fighters as a 109 shouldn't be doing too much turn fighting anyway.

To sum it up, I set the cannon to 200m horizontal because I just know through experience when I have the green light to open up and be effective. Horizontal mg's don't need to converge at all honestly but 1000m is the most we plug in. Vertically, 400m for both just feels right and mg's and cannon almost meet at 200m which is exactly when I like to open up.

Long pot shots at running fighters or trying to take out bomber gunners excluded of course.

So no, they don't all hit at one spot but it seems to be a pretty good compromise.

Yes as I thought mate...thanks :)

[Wulf]

So put simply, how does it work. I have my convergence set at 400 horizontal and 200 vertical for the wing guns. I am told that this means the guns are set to converge at 200m, but how? If horizontal is 400 wouldnt that mean it will converge at 400m? I ask this because I generally shoot way inside 200, generally at 150m or less. I would like to set my convergence for 150, but I am unsure of what values to put in.
Any help is appreciated
-Indy

Image that demonstrates the 400x200 convergance:
4905


This is my understanding of the situation.

If you want the projectiles from your weapons to converge on a single point in space at say 250m, (that is, an area of about 2-3m diameter at that range - under good conditions) then set your vertical and horizontal values at 250m. However, if for example, you still want to shoot at 250m, but you want to increase the probability of hitting your target, (that is to say, you want the area of convergence increased from 2-3m to about 4-5m or so) you could for example set your horizontal convergence at 400m so that at 250m your projectiles are spread out somewhat and therefore more likely to make contact with a target that may be moving and jinking about. Using a wider convergence pattern is probably more likely to result in hits. However, because the projectiles are going to be less concentrated (at the target range) those hits that you do get are also likely to be fewer and potentially less destructive.

As has been noted above, this approach essentially creates several convergence points (in this case 250m and 400m) however, because in the case of the 20mm MGFF cannon, the trajectory is so loopy, the 400m convergence point will be well below your line of sight and therefore of very little use. As the range increases beyond 400m the projectile drop below your line of sight would increase so much, and so quickly, that you would have to know the exact range of the target (within a meter or two) to register any hits at all.

I note you say you like to shoot at very close range. In my opinion that is the most sensible approach to take when flying the 109.

[indyscout]

I note you say you like to shoot at very close range. In my opinion that is the most sensible approach to take when flying the 109.

I tend to enjoy shooting at very close range, generally when the wingspan of the target fills up my gun sight. While it does put me at risk of being detected, I make certain that I will land critical hits, and I can still pull a few shoots of them if they react when I am that close.

So I think I may give the 150m convergence a try, though by what you have all been saying it sounds like I will loose my effectiveness at any sort of long range. Good thing I only use the mg's for the long shots.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

I tend to enjoy shooting at very close range, generally when the wingspan of the target fills up my gun sight. While it does put me at risk of being detected, I make certain that I will land critical hits, and I can still pull a few shoots of them if they react when I am that close.

So I think I may give the 150m convergence a try, though by what you have all been saying it sounds like I will loose my effectiveness at any sort of range. Good thing I only use the mg's for the long shots.

Not really. If you set them at 150 and are disciplined enough to fly that close you will score big damage and if center mass probably a PK.

[Wulf]

I tend to enjoy shooting at very close range, generally when the wingspan of the target fills up my gun sight. While it does put me at risk of being detected, I make certain that I will land critical hits, and I can still pull a few shoots of them if they react when I am that close.

So I think I may give the 150m convergence a try, though by what you have all been saying it sounds like I will loose my effectiveness at any sort of long range. Good thing I only use the mg's for the long shots.



You'll already be aware of this but just in case you aren't don't forget your reflector sight is designed in part as a range finding mechanism. If the wingtips of the enemy single-seater are touching the outer ring of the sight circle, he's 100m away. If the E/A is half the width of the ring he's 200m away etc. If you're shooting at close range I suspect convergence isn't too much of an issue whatever you choose. In my experience, if you're energy fighting it typically comes down to a split second burst as your enemy disappears right under your nose. Anything between 150m - 250m is probably fine. As with most things in life, your convergence setting will invariable involve some element of compromise.

[doxey]

Which values (in meters) are the "default convergence settings" in the game for BF109?

[JG6_BigglesCDN]

Did the in-game settings get fixed in TF 4.3 i.e is Vertical really setting vertical now? And does this apply to RAF as well?

Cheers!

Biggles

[Catseye]

Did the in-game settings get fixed in TF 4.3 i.e is Vertical really setting vertical now? And does this apply to RAF as well?

Cheers!

Biggles

Fixed quite a while back.

[Little_D]

Hi gents,

i use for the cannons now H:135m and V:135 and for nose mg's H:250m V: 135m. works perfect in ranges from 150 to 125 meters for the cannons and for long shots up to 250m i only use the nose mg's works also great. shots over 250m is waisting ammo :).

regards

Little_D

[Little_D]

You'll already be aware of this but just in case you aren't don't forget your reflector sight is designed in part as a range finding mechanism. If the wingtips of the enemy single-seater are touching the outer ring of the sight circle, he's 100m away. If the E/A is half the width of the ring he's 200m away etc. If you're shooting at close range I suspect convergence isn't too much of an issue whatever you choose. In my experience, if you're energy fighting it typically comes down to a split second burst as your enemy disappears right under your nose. Anything between 150m - 250m is probably fine. As with most things in life, your convergence setting will invariable involve some element of compromise.

Hi Wulf you are right, but the gunsighn is wrong in 109 when the wingtip from Spit is in the circle she is 125m away. Team Fusion know about this problem allready. for 150m - 170m us the first little dot in the gunsighn when you zoom in on the gunsighn, from the outside ring.

regards

Little_D

[GERMANWOLF]

I use 200/200 for all is fine for me

[ATAG_Endless]

[QUOTE=Little_D . shots over 250m is waisting ammo :).

regards

Little_D[/QUOTE]

Shooting from distance is verry effective
I shoot anywhere from point blank to 400m away with cannons depending on my situation eg:

If a spit is flying head on either just to your left or right you can shoot from distance because you want to be the first to score hits as to get the opponent on the defensive

If you are chasing an opponent and he is at 250m+ away you can get him to turn with a quick burst the sound of rounds hitting his plane will give him the allusion you are right on his six thus forcing him to go evasive and give you time to take appropriate actions to set up an advantage

Setting your cannons at distance is still verry effective at close range hell the other night a took off both wings of a hurrie at point blank range and my cannons are set to 400/400 it just gives me the option to shoot from a distance if I have to

[Wulf]

Hi Wulf you are right, but the gunsighn is wrong in 109 when the wingtip from Spit is in the circle she is 125m away. Team Fusion know about this problem allready. for 150m - 170m us the first little dot in the gunsighn when you zoom in on the gunsighn, from the outside ring.

regards

Little_D


Thanks for that. I look forward to the newly calibrated sight. Recently, I've been reduced to switching it off and using 'the force'. Unfortunately, it would seem that my version of 'the force' has been calibrated by the same guy who did the Revi. :ind:

[Vlerkies]

Thanks for that. I look forward to the newly calibrated sight. Recently, I've been reduced to switching it off and using 'the force'. Unfortunately, it would seem that my version of 'the force' has been calibrated by the same guy who did the Revi. :ind:
LOL :)

My E1 as follows (E3+4 would be the same for with maybe higher 'V' for wing guns to compensate for slightly slower ammo when trying to pull a lead)
Gun 1+2
H=900
V=100

Gun 3+4 (wings)
H=150
V=100

I can snipe long range with nose guns, trying to force a panic turn or whatever.
I only fire all 4 guns when the target fills the revi wingtip to wingtip on either side, and closer even more often than not.

[9./JG52 Mindle]

Which values (in meters) are the "default convergence settings" in the game for BF109?



Found this post from 'Verrattu' on the 1C forums

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since iL2CoD-v1.05.15950 the standard convergence for all BF109E is defined as follows:

nose mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 400 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 420 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF/M (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

There is a good reason why vertical standard convergence is 500 m (Visierschuss). The German iL2CoD munition types have been animated in a version "verbessert" (improved). The cartridges are of high-velocity type for maximum performance in aircraft machine guns and give higher pressure than other 7,9 mm rounds.