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92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-29-2013, 09:17
Please, for the love of all things good and worthy, can the winter mission finish before sunrise.

Bright purple clouds flying over a flourescent white landscape under a glowing red sky works in Final Fantasy IV, but not in Cliffs of Dover.

TheVino3
Oct-30-2013, 06:14
:S

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-30-2013, 06:16
:S

I will post some screenshots.... the late evening on the winter map looks like a Dr. Suess book.

Vlerkies
Nov-04-2013, 02:01
Yeah, I dunno what mission it was but the time of day made it very very difficult to fly effectively. You could see contacts but as soon as they went over the sea below you they were gone.

This was last Saturday during the day GMT+2 for the whole afternoon that one mission ran. Towards the end it was getting dark and the colors were terrible, purple clouds and stuff, I thought I was flying around in SouthPark.

I know people put a lot of time and effort into creating these missions and for this I am truly grateful, some of these missions like the one I describe is not helping the cause though. I actually just quit and went to do other things and only went back online much later that day when the mission changed.
The guys in my Squadron that were online as well also bailed out of the server due to low light. It just empties the server.

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Nov-04-2013, 09:46
My guess would be that several existing missions were copy/pasted onto the new autumn & winter channel maps leading to some odd scenarios like Dunkirk in the fall. Also, a time of day of 16:00 is fine on the summer map but on the winter map it's completely dark at that time. Add in all the clouds and it looked like nuclear winter. Why does every mission need to have heavy clouds?

Gromit
Nov-04-2013, 10:59
because clear sky over the UK is a rare phenomenon indeed!

Clouds also add a lot more playability with the ability to use cloud tactically!

more the merrier I say!

Mattias
Nov-04-2013, 11:26
:salute:

Yes, nightfighting is not very popular and I agree the winter map looks a bit odd at night :D
We will try and correct this.

Cheers/m

Vlerkies
Nov-05-2013, 13:31
Thx Mattias

Again this evening afterwork the same thing which really spoils the limited time I have to play this sim.

I would frankly rather just stick white hot needles under my fingernails for 2 hours than fly this.
The last shot, the red one, is what it looks like when your pilot gets wounded. Happened after trailing a bomber formation and getting clobbered. (video to follow)


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trademe900
Nov-05-2013, 13:39
This is really important. Everyone just starts Leaving the server when it gets ridiculously dark like this.

Please, please can the map be restarted before it gets dark like this?

I dread to think of the number of new players coming on when it's very dark, not being able to see anything and then shelving the game or just not coming online again.

Vlerkies
Nov-05-2013, 13:55
Here's a video as it happens, no color adjustment or post processing. (other than compression)



http://youtu.be/9uOXIWUJvAI

ATAG_EvangelusE
Nov-05-2013, 17:48
This is potentially an excellent map and I am pleased to see that it's going get a tweak, like others I have found it difficult to cope with due to the darkeness.

Hope the following research helps regards any tweaking.

During the period 1937 - 42, snowfall that covered large parts of the UK fell in Late January and February. The sunrise/sunset at this time of the year is approx. 7-35 am and 4-50 pm giving just over 9hrs of daylight. That should be sufficient to run a 5 hour mission without difficulty regards light level.

Currently, the winter map is short on daylight hours and the Sun very low in the sky.

Skoshi_Tiger
Nov-05-2013, 21:17
I personally could see anything wrong with those pictures and as a Blenheim pilot the semi darkness give a degree of cover - just need to be able to see the targets.

I think in the red picture the pilot has been shot! ;)

Cheers!

Vlerkies
Nov-06-2013, 02:47
I personally could see anything wrong with those pictures and as a Blenheim pilot the semi darkness give a degree of cover - just need to be able to see the targets.

I think in the red picture the pilot has been shot! ;)

Cheers!

Ok so let me get this straight, you are happy with the cover the darkness provides you as a bomber pilot, but in the same breath want to be able to see targets? News Flash, as a fighter pilot I would also like to see targets :doh:

As for the red shot, I am relatively new, and have had a wounded pilot many many times when the screen goes read. The difference is on the other maps you can still see what is going on outside. On this map you cannot see a bloody thing. I was still flying perfectly and in perfect control of the aircraft, but could not see anything outside. In my limited experience this has not happened before on other maps.
If I had to hazard a guess I would say its a contrast issue, and it may well just be like that at night period.

The colors are crap, purple clouds for goodness sake. The light is way to low and the servers empty out. Its really that simple.

Skoshi_Tiger
Nov-06-2013, 03:29
Ok so let me get this straight, you are happy with the cover the darkness provides you as a bomber pilot, but in the same breath want to be able to see targets?

Notice how I did say semi-darkness, but sometime just a silhouette is enough to get your bombs on target.


News Flash, as a fighter pilot I would also like to see targets :doh:

You understand my point then? After flying under blue skies for the last few years I find an occasional dark mission refreshing.


As for the red shot, I am relatively new, and have had a wounded pilot many many times when the screen goes read. The difference is on the other maps you can still see what is going on outside. On this map you cannot see a bloody thing. I was still flying perfectly and in perfect control of the aircraft, but could not see anything outside. In my limited experience this has not happened before on other maps.
If I had to hazard a guess I would say its a contrast issue, and it may well just be like that at night period.


The red-out does vary with the severity of the injury, depending on how bad your hit even in full daylight you can't see much



The colors are crap, purple clouds for goodness sake. The light is way to low and the servers empty out. Its really that simple.

I recon if you did a google search for 'winter sunset', you'd find a lot more vivid colours than in the images provided. Guess you'd even find some purples in there too if you look hard enough.

Like I thought I said, I can't see too much wrong with the pictures provided.

Maybe if we ask TF nice enough they could put some navigation lights on the planes and we could run around with them on, or maybe the mission designers could put in some searchlights.

Cheers! :)

TheVino3
Nov-06-2013, 03:44
The Red effect is what happens when you are shot, its just a blanket red colour across the screen, it doesnt take into account time of day or anything like that so in low levels you are blinded by it - which is not ideal.

As for purple clouds...theres nothing wrong with purple clouds...the clouds in game are not quite right yet, and they are difficult to tweak, but the idea of purple clouds being unrealistic is wrong

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Around/after sunset clouds often go a bluey/grey/purple colour, in varying degrees of vibrance, so theres nothing wrong with "purple clouds", but I agree that they arent quite right in game yet.

EDIT: What is wrong with this screenshot?:

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Vlerkies
Nov-06-2013, 04:31
Skoshi

Once in a while is fine for a night mission. I don't mind it either 'occasionally' as you have put it. But what is happening is when it gets dark the server empties out, then the mission itself has to run its course as it seems there are not enough players to complete it faster.
The net result is logging in with a lot of night missions, at least that has been my experience.
i have like 2 hour time window to fly. Its killing it for me completely. I just go fly DCS rather.

Vino, make clouds like that and I have no problem, not purple marshmellows. I have done photography for years so am quite up to speed with what nature can deliver. What we have at the moment though is very cartoony.
The last screenshot you quoted, I was just showing the light level when I logged in, very dark, if you are low looking up fine, high looking down no chance.

Please don't take this as me be argumentative, I am grateful for the sim and the TF work, hopefully this is viewed with a constructive eye.

Mattias
Nov-06-2013, 05:00
:salute:

I fully understand the desire for daylight and this is an easy fix. The problem we have at the moment is that when a few missions made for the summer map was converted to the autumn and winter maps the shift in dusk/dawn was not considered.

No need to bash our clouds or post screenshots to make your point. We are well aware of the limitations of the winter maps night environment.

Skoshi_Tiger
Nov-06-2013, 05:21
Skoshi

Once in a while is fine for a night mission. I don't mind it either 'occasionally' as you have put it. But what is happening is when it gets dark the server empties out, then the mission itself has to run its course as it seems there are not enough players to complete it faster.
.....

Please don't take this as me be argumentative, I am grateful for the sim and the TF work, hopefully this is viewed with a constructive eye.

Hey, No Problems! We're all friends here!

One of the real problems I have is when it gets full dark and there are no runway lights! Crikey!

TheVino3
Nov-06-2013, 06:45
Vino, make clouds like that and I have no problem, not purple marshmellows. I have done photography for years so am quite up to speed with what nature can deliver. What we have at the moment though is very cartoony.
The last screenshot you quoted, I was just showing the light level when I logged in, very dark, if you are low looking up fine, high looking down no chance.


As I said, the clouds in game are not perfect, and commonly referred to as marshmallowy or cotton balls, but the notion that purple clouds are crap is wrong. See:


The colors are crap, purple clouds for goodness sake.

We are constantly trying to make the game look more realistic, so dont worry, we aren't deliberately trying to make the clouds look like marshmallows - thats just how the developers left them, and trying to fix that is very very difficult. Its not just a matter of "make clouds like that", its actually a huge amount of work and testing, but hopefully we'll get there. Remember, TF4.00 is but a step along the path.

Cheers

Vlerkies
Nov-06-2013, 09:29
We are constantly trying to make the game look more realistic, so dont worry, we aren't deliberately trying to make the clouds look like marshmallows - thats just how the developers left them, and trying to fix that is very very difficult. Its not just a matter of "make clouds like that", its actually a huge amount of work and testing, but hopefully we'll get there. Remember, TF4.00 is but a step along the path.

Cheers

Vino3
Operating in a 32bit enviroment will make that more difficult and I wish the team luck and again appreciate the efforts.
The clouds in the game are really great, during the day that is, and the new rendering in advance in TF4 is even better. :salute:
The purple, not nice for prolonged periods and in real life this is fleeting during sunrise and sunset, a WIP, all good.
My bugbear is the seemingly easy time fix to eliminate the lengthy dark periods of flight and that has been acknowledged and will be addressed so all is good.

Looking at the server now the sun is up in the autumn map so I am going flying without delay.
:-)

doxey
Nov-09-2013, 08:13
Atag winter mission
Local ingame time: 16:07
http://img.xrmb2.net/images/501518.jpeg

fischbs
Nov-14-2013, 20:17
I think the night fighting is cool, but I also think it can draw on for a bit too long sometimes, and setting a limit to roll the map after twilight wouldn't be the worst idea.

edit: I just so happened to take and host some screenshots from it myself from last night's sortie come to think of it. Link: http://imgur.com/QoidLwD,j2ABcfe,oTym6Wy,JJub2lX#0

EG14_Marcast
Nov-15-2013, 03:09
The main problem of this mission IMO is that there are some targets, on both sides, very hard to spot and well protected as they are close to the Littlestone area. If no one gets them the mission goes to the end just as an endless dogfight. It is the only map that I've seen to close in a draw.

ElGringo
Nov-16-2013, 00:35
Guys, the dusk happens at 5 o' clock right now in Le havre. And it will be at 4 soon. And the sky can look like this:

http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/0f8abbcd-610d-4c87-8082-23345b490300.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/0f8abbcd-610d-4c87-8082-23345b490300.jpg)
This is at dawn, but you get the idea... The clouds are purple!!!


http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/5de2c772-16f3-4c56-86aa-d778aaca7213.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/5de2c772-16f3-4c56-86aa-d778aaca7213.jpg)
Midday and some yellow clouds...


Normandy was always famous to painters for the weird colors the sky can have sometimes.
And I like Night Missions. We just need some lights at the airfields. but I know pretty much everybody else hates them...

Roblex
Nov-16-2013, 06:04
I flew a night night mission on Wednesday but not the one with tanks, it was the one where RAF bombs the JU88s at Calais. At first I was looking for a formation of bombers at 20,000ft just after the sun went down and it proved nearly impossible. I knew they were nearby as I was at 15K over Calais when they were announced but the first indication I saw was gunners shooting at someone. I flew towards the tracer and knew I was really close but still could not see where the tracer was coming from until I suddenly saw a white geometric shape nearby and realised it was the cross on a JU88s wing!
I swerved away to avoid a collision and that's it, never saw them again! :D

http://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/18/40/46/21/night310.jpg

I flew around a little longer and went to investigate some flak over Lympne but never saw any enemy aircraft so was about to give up and log off in disgust when I thought 'Hold on. If I can't see bombers then they can't see *my* bomber' so I spawned in as a Blenheim and there were already three blenheims warming up. Unfortunately they were not on ATAG Teamspeak but I though 'No problem. I will just join them anyway.' I formed up behind them and as I was not on their TS I had to wait until I saw all three moving before I started myself which meant I was about 10 seconds behind when I lifted but that was all it took to lose them completely! Nevertheless I went over to Calais on my own and even if the sky was too dark to see anything, the ground targets were very clear so I bombed the JU88s at Oye-Plage. It was lovely to see everything burning and the field lit by flickering light. Snarglepuss spawned in as I was still approaching Oye-Plage and he also reported that there were three Blenheims already taxiing out as he spawned in so it seems the night maps are great for bombing and most of the maps suffer from too few bombers. At least this way the maps might actually get closed down!

I understand that pure fighter pilots find it frustrating not being able to see the enemy so we really need accurate searchlights or maybe we need to be unhistoric and add navigation lights like IL2 has but turned on by default after dark.

On the subject of lights, people keep saying that we need runway lights but the mission I flew *did* have runway lights though as you see, we still have that bug that makes lights shine through solid objects. It is not so clear from this upload but there are four lights visible; two white in the foreground and two red further ahead. The red lights look white when you get near.

http://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/18/40/46/21/rwylig11.jpg

Vlerkies
Nov-20-2013, 10:40
Its simple, I just fly something else instead.

Dark = empty server = bad for growing TF4
Daylight = fuller server = way more fun and conducive to expanding the community.