View Full Version : Operation Homeplate Observation
StormBat
Oct-29-2013, 19:55
Okay first of all I would like to thank all the people who put in lots of hours and dedication to make maps for the ATAG server, it's very much appreciated.:salute:
For the operation Homeplate mission I've observed that red usually always takes the map(actually never seen blue take it, but that doesn't mean they haven't) due to lack of people bombing and fighters going right to the enemy hotspots to get shot down. Is there a way you can make it so 40 bombers have to get shot down instead of fighters and bombers? or if 40 is to much then say 25-30 bombers? Maybe then it would be better balanced for both sides. This is in no way a complaint like I said an observation, I really like that map and have just started flying Ju-88's and am having a blast with it. If you can script it so it's the bombers that need to be destroyed I think it would work for both sides. Any ideas on this anyone? Again thanks gentlemen for all your hard work and dedication contributing to this now amazing sim that TF has put new life into.:thumbsup:
:cheers:
AKA_Recon
Oct-29-2013, 20:14
I think it depends on time of day and turnout.
It takes 4 single He111 H2 flights at altitude to destroy an airfield (at least for me, I destroyed 53% in two sorties) That is quite some time if you do it right and get to altitude. That said, I bet I'm in the minority and most take Ju88 and come in mid to low altitude.
Not many people are going to wait for me to climb up to 5000m and proceed to target and I rarely get escort - nevermind the times I screw up the engine, or forget to arm my bombs, etc... (and I struggle to get turned to see my drops to see where I hit - lol)
It would be interesting to adjust the requirements based on the number of pilots on a side programmatically.
9./JG52_J-HAT
Oct-29-2013, 20:38
Me and Stormbat were taking Ju 88 to the targets. Dive bombing in that thing is one of the coolest things in the game. We were counting 6 sorties in Ju 88 to knock out an aifield. Our altitude was about 5k going into enemy territory. But still we were being intercepted, mostly on the way home when we had already been detected. We managed to knock out Hawkinge and do a great deal of damage to Lympne. Escorts were there protecting us most of the time. But the amount of fighters which just go to repeat the vulch / low level turn&burn ritual is too high in comparison to the bombers. Each one of them plus each one of us bombers getting destroyed makes the 40 planes get reached too quickly. I don't think many players actually care if not losing their planes count to winning the map.
Making only destroyed bombers (maybe even player controlled and AI with designated mission targets only) count would be a way of avoiding these non-teamplay pilots actually making it worse for blue.
And it is indeed a very fun mission! Now that I can fly the Ju 88 it is even better!
RAF74_Buzzsaw
Oct-29-2013, 22:21
Me and Stormbat were taking Ju 88 to the targets. Dive bombing in that thing is one of the coolest things in the game.
Glad you are enjoying the revised Ju-88 dive brakes. :thumbsup:
It is certainly one of the more accurate ways to bomb, and considering the bomb weight you can deliver in the Ju-88, can be fairly devastating.
The Ju-88A was probably the biggest aircraft with this capability, a result of Ernst Udet's infatuation with dive bombers, at one point in the '30's, all new contracts for bombers or attack aircraft of any type specified the types were required to have dive bombing capability.
What worries me is that I frequently see 50 blue players on but no more than one or two flying bombers (three bombers is almost unheard of!) I may be wrong but I believe in the Homeplate script the number of AI bombers launched depends on how many Blue players are online so when there are 50 the gap between AI formations is probably huge (if any get launched at all!) Bearing this in mind, Red would never see 40 bombers and Blue would still not close four airfields so the map would never be won by either side.
Looked at sensibly, if it takes 6 sorties for a JU88 to close a field then it takes 24 to win the map. It is almost impossible to stop a JU88 diving on the target and unloading its bombs somewhere on the field so even if all the JU88s are shot down after each attack you should close the map with no more than 30 losses. I actually think it takes less than 6 per field but we will stick with 6 and on that basis a target of 40 for Red may be a bit marginal if you count the suicidal 109s and also accidents so I would support the Red target being raised to 60 aircraft but not 40m bombers.
StormBat
Oct-30-2013, 09:45
Looked at sensibly, if it takes 6 sorties for a JU88 to close a field then it takes 24 to win the map. It is almost impossible to stop a JU88 diving on the target and unloading its bombs somewhere on the field so even if all the JU88s are shot down after each attack you should close the map with no more than 30 losses. I actually think it takes less than 6 per field but we will stick with 6 and on that basis a target of 40 for Red may be a bit marginal if you count the suicidal 109s and also accidents so I would support the Red target being raised to 60 aircraft but not 40m bombers.
Sure, whatever works. Right now red always wins that map so if increasing it to 60 aircraft instead of 40 that need to be shot down then we should try that ratio if at the very least to give blue a fighting chance.
I think this is Salmo's map maybe we can pm him and ask him to change it to 60 just to see how it goes. I really like this map and think that this would just be a slight tweek. Thanks Salmo btw if you read this it's very much appreciated mate.
ElGringo
Oct-30-2013, 10:27
Each 88 does around 23 or 24% to an airfield. So it takes 5 sorties. I' ve actually seen the map being closed pretty easely by blue side once. We were 4 or 5 ju-88 working together, bombing same airfields. But it does need some coordination, which is sadly pretty rare on the blue side. I do think that is the main problem on all maps. No blues on ATAG TS.
I agree that Blue *can* and *does* win the map sometimes and when it does not then it is not because they couldn't, it is because they did not try!
Just a few weeks ago I watched Blue destroy three airfields in quick succession and we could do little to stop them they then brough the last field, Lympne, to over 90% damage. Guess what they did next?...they stopped flying bombers and took 109s to Manston for a low level furball until Red had enough kills to win the map! It is almost as if Blue are trying to prove the map can't be won:doh:
Despite this I say 'Just give them their extra help by handicapping Red some more just to shut Blue up!' I have a horrible feeling that once the map has been changed so Red needs 60 kills, Blue is going to suddenly start playing properly and winning every map then start boasting about how much better their pilots are :D
III./ZG76_Keller
Oct-30-2013, 17:33
Despite this I say 'Just give them their extra help by handicapping Red some more just to shut Blue up!' I have a horrible feeling that once the map has been changed so Red needs 60 kills, Blue is going to suddenly start playing properly and winning every map then start boasting about how much better their pilots are :D
One of the main issues is that the German bomber bases are right on the coast, requiring fighter cover just to get off the ground. If you have spits and hurris strafing bombers on the ground at multiple airfields it might take you four aircraft before you finally get out of there without being seen. If 5 bomber pilots lose 3 aircraft a piece before leaving on their first bombing sortie that means Red has scored 15/40 aircraft before one German bomber has left France. I fear that the current mission scoring system is promoting strafing.
If there's a way to do it, only AI bombers should count towards the total of 40.
Catseye
Oct-30-2013, 17:59
One of the main issues is that the German bomber bases are right on the coast, requiring fighter cover just to get off the ground. If you have spits and hurris strafing bombers on the ground at multiple airfields it might take you four aircraft before you finally get out of there without being seen. If 5 bomber pilots lose 3 aircraft a piece before leaving on their first bombing sortie that means Red has scored 15/40 aircraft before one German bomber has left France. I fear that the current mission scoring system is promoting strafing.
If there's a way to do it, only AI bombers should count towards the total of 40.
Agree!
Move the bombers inland and spread out the bases.
But . . . . give extra points for shooting down human piloted bombers and tripple score for shooting down Keller. :)
Cheers,
Cats . . .
9./JG52_J-HAT
Oct-30-2013, 18:05
Nice inputs from both sides. If you consider 5 bombers can take an airfield out and there are 5 (?) targets, than blues could finish the airfields even with all bombers being shot down everytime after they drop their load. But if they get intercepted before reaching their target or when still ovef France, the number of downed bombers will be higher than the ones actually being able to hit the airfields. This would still have the situation tending towards what we have now. The best strategy for reds would be to just suppress the bombers' spawn points.
Making x human bombers as goal for the reds could lead than to reds just camping around the spawn bases and killing every single spawning bomber. That would lead to the need of fighters providing top cover or bombers taking off farther inland. The first scenario sounds better for me. It is a compromise and *could* make fighters want to provide escort and top cover over the airfields. But what would garantee blue players who don't care about the objectives anyways wouldn't still go to the red airfields for the kills? This would lead us to the same situation we are in now, maybe even worsen it.
Making only AI bombers count could work if these bombers are attacking the objectives. There would still be a reason for blue players to fly fighters and contribute to accomplishing the objective. And who wants to bomb could do it too, contributing to the objective and reducing the red's effectiveness of downing the actual planes that count. It could make it too easy for [reds] - sorry, meant blues.
Tough call... maybe increasing the numbers of any aircraft destroyed (including AI) to say 60 would be the best immediate solution and also the most effective? The fighters still outnumber the bombers, so plenty of "secondary" targets to help reds reach the objective before the blues do.
SoW Reddog
Oct-30-2013, 18:37
Two slightly facetious answers
1) reds never/rarely go over France!
2) you need a script to stop reds going over France
:recon:::recon:
Serious answer, there are some pretty good suggestions above.
How about not using Hawkinge and Manston?! To get rid of the constant low alt fighting at these bases?
If there's a way to do it, only AI bombers should count towards the total of 40.
I mentioned before that this wont work if the server is full of 50 109s as seems to be the case many nights. I have posted the proof below as taken from the mission description
Dynamic AI numbers - The number of Ai planes varies with the number of players in the battle. The fewer player, the more frequently Ai will spawn-in, and Ai spawn less frequently as player numbers increase.
Talisman
Oct-31-2013, 13:08
Okay first of all I would like to thank all the people who put in lots of hours and dedication to make maps for the ATAG server, it's very much appreciated.:salute:
For the operation Homeplate mission I've observed that red usually always takes the map(actually never seen blue take it, but that doesn't mean they haven't) due to lack of people bombing and fighters going right to the enemy hotspots to get shot down. Is there a way you can make it so 40 bombers have to get shot down instead of fighters and bombers? or if 40 is to much then say 25-30 bombers? Maybe then it would be better balanced for both sides. This is in no way a complaint like I said an observation, I really like that map and have just started flying Ju-88's and am having a blast with it. If you can script it so it's the bombers that need to be destroyed I think it would work for both sides. Any ideas on this anyone? Again thanks gentlemen for all your hard work and dedication contributing to this now amazing sim that TF has put new life into.:thumbsup:
:cheers:
IMHO, the LW rarely win the map because not enough of them get together to co-operate to win it. I think that one of the reasons for this may be that the LW fighter pilots like to 'make hay while the sun shines' as far as the fighter vs fighter match up is concerned.
By this I mean that the LW fighter pilots have a clear fighter vs fighter advantage for the first hour or so of the map. So, mostly the LW fighter pilots seem to set up camp in the vicinity of Dover for a dog fight festival. At the start of the map the RAF are limited to pre BoB early Spitfire types and the LW have Me 109 types from a later period. This appears to be encouraging the LW pilots to go for advantageous fighter vs fighter action rather than going for map objectives that require more co-operative and co-ordinated flying.
For hours I have defended the route to mission objective targets on this map as a RAF pilot and got very little action because not many LW pilots are attacking the mission objective targets. Meanwhile, on TS I hear that others are getting lots of non objective fighter vs fighter action over Dover almost all the time.
III./ZG76_Keller
Oct-31-2013, 17:27
IMHO, the LW rarely win the map because not enough of them get together to co-operate to win it. I think that one of the reasons for this may be that the LW fighter pilots like to 'make hay while the sun shines' as far as the fighter vs fighter match up is concerned.
By this I mean that the LW fighter pilots have a clear fighter vs fighter advantage for the first hour or so of the map. So, mostly the LW fighter pilots seem to set up camp in the vicinity of Dover for a dog fight festival. At the start of the map the RAF are limited to pre BoB early Spitfire types and the LW have Me 109 types from a later period. This appears to be encouraging the LW pilots to go for advantageous fighter vs fighter action rather than going for map objectives that require more co-operative and co-ordinated flying.
For hours I have defended the route to mission objective targets on this map as a RAF pilot and got very little action because not many LW pilots are attacking the mission objective targets. Meanwhile, on TS I hear that others are getting lots of non objective fighter vs fighter action over Dover almost all the time.
I'm not sure how you figure that the Luftwaffe has an advantage for the first hour of the map; the E3 matches quite well with the available Spitfires.
I think what it boils down to is the fact that not many players, red or blue, give two craps about the objectives. Since the Luftwaffe objectives require piloting a twin engine bomber, (sure you could take a 109 and do 5% damage to an airfield with your entire payload but it's not really worth it), but not many people fly the twin engine planes. Since red's objective is to shoot down AI bombers, which is all the majority ever really do anyway, they are bound to have more success.
If the stats were set up in a way that you got 20 kills for taking out an objective, then I think you'd see more people flying bombers. People are just too concerned with their scores to care about objectives that don't have any points reward.
And lastly, it's a Bf-109 (Bayerische Flugzeugwerke). Messerschmitt was not yet the name of the company when the 109 recieved it's Luftwaffe designation, so therefore the correct prefix is "Bf" right through to the K model since the plane never underwent any kind of redesignation.
92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Nov-01-2013, 05:08
If the stats were set up in a way that you got 20 kills for taking out an objective, then I think you'd see more people flying bombers. People are just too concerned with their scores to care about objectives that don't have any points reward.
.
Yup!
just my 2 cents here, but I think a middle ground has to be struck when it comes to letting people do what they want and giving them objectives. Currently perhaps 5% will do the objectives and the rest are in for the fun of a free hunt (me included). I feel like I yet have a lot to learn to master the 109, never mind taking the time to learn how to fly a bomber.
So inevitably, every mission goes the same, get up to 4-5K look for dots to fall upon, find one, miss, do it again, this time i can't find anybody, get bored, fly to hawkinge, strafe some ground targets, get shot up, limp home. Yes there are targets, but that requires a great deal of cooperation with others which is not feasible on chat and requires you to go on TS (which is all good and should be that way, except a lot of people don't go on TS either don't have a mic or don't want to)
So what to do? How to lump all the players together in one area (one attack vector even if you like). Well, what is missing is a feeling of urgency. BoB was about getting up there, shooting at those bombers, getting down for repairs/or a new plane and doing it again and again and again!
There should be flights after flights of spawned He-111 targeting airfields ( reasonable time apart, but enough to keep the pressure up 5-7 min perhaps?). They could go first after lympne, when that's destroyed, hawkinge, when that's gone - ramsgate, etc... Let's put them at 5000 or 6000m (or mix in low level flights - I believe that was also used by the luftwaffe and would sure make a change!) Airfields must be given more HP to survive longer.
The number of He-111 in each flight needs to be dynamic reflecting the number of available red fighters. (Ranging in size from 4 -18)
Red objectives: shoot down 50 He-111
Blue objectives: Destroy Airfields
If the blues don't escort their Heinkels the map is over real soon for them.
If the reds don't target the bombers, they loose ground each time an airfield goes boom.
There would be perhaps 3-4 airfields that need to be taken out by blues - the reds can only spawn from them + one reserve airfield that won't get bombed (put a lot further back near london)
Blue fighters now have something to do
Red fighters now have something to do
Blue bombers can join in the action, or fly solo. With so many escorts in the area, they should find it easier then before.
Red bombers?
Optional missions can be flown by the red bombers - here's my question. Can the targets be made dynamic? Say If reds bomb a train, they no longer need to shoot down 50 but 45 he-111 to claim victory...
This is a tough one, as I don't know what sort of sorties did the blenheims do in 1940 and whether it makes sense to include ground targets in france in conditions for victory.
What do you guys think?
P.S.: I've also read a thread with some cool ideas re - scoring and kill attribution. like you need to land on friendly territory for the kill to count, etc. - I can't find it now..:(
Or some kind of victory point system for bombers....?
Talisman
Nov-01-2013, 13:41
I'm not sure how you figure that the Luftwaffe has an advantage for the first hour of the map; the E3 matches quite well with the available Spitfires.
I think what it boils down to is the fact that not many players, red or blue, give two craps about the objectives. Since the Luftwaffe objectives require piloting a twin engine bomber, (sure you could take a 109 and do 5% damage to an airfield with your entire payload but it's not really worth it), but not many people fly the twin engine planes. Since red's objective is to shoot down AI bombers, which is all the majority ever really do anyway, they are bound to have more success.
If the stats were set up in a way that you got 20 kills for taking out an objective, then I think you'd see more people flying bombers. People are just too concerned with their scores to care about objectives that don't have any points reward.
And lastly, it's a Bf-109 (Bayerische Flugzeugwerke). Messerschmitt was not yet the name of the company when the 109 recieved it's Luftwaffe designation, so therefore the correct prefix is "Bf" right through to the K model since the plane never underwent any kind of redesignation.
Hi Keller,
I thought that during the BoB, the RAF used to use the name "Messerschmitt" in reference to the Bf 109. It may have been technically wrong perhaps, but I think that is what they used to call the aircraft, so it may be historically correct using the language of the day in 1940 to say Messerschmitt in reference to the Bf 109, as we all know what we are talking about.
Presuming that you are aware of the differences between the Spitfire props, I do not understand how you do not see that fighting against a Spitfire that does not have a Rotol prop is easier for the LW fighter pilots. Spitfires had the Rotol prop fitted ready for the BoB for a very good reason. The fitting of the Rotol prop for the RAF fighter force was one of the remarkable early technological aviation war efforts undertaken by the British people to defend their air space. In terms of BoB Spitfire types, LW pilots have the opportunity to fly against sub standard Spitfire types at the start of the map. Also, pending the hot fix, even when the Spit 1a becomes available it currently has an overheat problem that the RAF pilots are managing.
Happy landings,
Talisman
I'd really appreciate it if players could drop into the Nations@War server & test the OP HomePlate v2.0 beta mission that's running there. In particular, whether the radar is calling out airgroups correctly. Yes, I know that the ping is high for those in the US or UK, but I want to iron out what bugs remain before I send to Bliss for hosting on ATAG.
Features needing testing
* Custom (tab-4) menu items, including calling for bomber escort, calling for bomber locations, personal stats, battle stats etc
* Radar voice announcements
* Larger LW bomber formations (up to 18 aircraft) ? is there lag?
* AA increased at enemy airfields ? is there lag?
9./JG52_J-HAT
Nov-02-2013, 07:55
Roger! Sure thing, will do!
9./JG52 Ziegler
Nov-02-2013, 08:27
Will do Salmo. :thumbsup:
On the original post, It is difficult to take a bomber without several other's and at least without some cover. We (5./JG27) do tend to fly together whenever possible regardless of the server and we do look at the mission objectives and try to focus on them. I sometimes wonder if allot of the people flying even know (or care) what the objectives are?
Last night there was 3 server crashes though when it gets near 100 players. I wonder if reducing the max player wouldn't stabilize the servers more and spread out the load better? This is a whole other post though.
9./JG52_J-HAT
Nov-02-2013, 13:23
Just go to being able to play now. There test server is not online, though.
Just go to being able to play now. There test server is not online, though.
its back up now
9./JG52_J-HAT
Nov-02-2013, 16:51
Thanks, Slamo. I did some quick testing on it. PM sent.
I'll test the remaining points later.
Salmo,
Love the custom tab menus. You are a genius!
ATAG_Septic
Nov-02-2013, 20:24
Fairly short test but the radar seemed to be working, my blennie was spotted anyway.
The menus are great, couldn't test properly but scores etc seemed ok.
Thanks for all your effort with this Salmo, I'll try and test more scientifically if required.
Septic.
WE had a over run on Home plate last night, Reds won the mission but it was still going with red on 55+ kills when I left!
III./ZG76_Keller
Nov-04-2013, 11:37
WE had a over run on Home plate last night, Reds won the mission but it was still going with red on 55+ kills when I left!
It was actually 108 of 40 at one point.
ATAG_EvangelusE
Nov-04-2013, 15:00
I came across a formation of Heinkel bombers with a second formation of Nine AI Me109's escorting. The AI fighter ecorts had to be attacked before swinging into action but it was great fun once they did. Pity there were no player 109's taking advantage by tagging along.
The map enourages low level sorties simply because 109's armed with bombs can knock out airfields and reds have to defend them.
Maybe we will see more AI fighter escorts in missions which should encourage more interest at altitude.
:thumbsup:
EG14_Marcast
Feb-04-2014, 05:00
Salmo,
Yesterday night a mate bombed Manston and I could clearly see the screen message “Manston 90% damaged”. So I planned to go there and drop a few bombs to close it, then go to release the rest of my load to another airfield. But checking the Tab 4 menu while on my way I was reported as “Manston 43% damaged”, so in doubt I dropped all bombs there. I think the real damage was 90% as I immediately got “Manston totally destroyed” after the very first explosions. Maybe a possible little bug?
9./JG52_J-HAT
Feb-05-2014, 06:19
I came across a formation of Heinkel bombers with a second formation of Nine AI Me109's escorting. The AI fighter ecorts had to be attacked before swinging into action but it was great fun once they did. Pity there were no player 109's taking advantage by tagging along.
Are you sure they were AI? I didn't know there were any AIs in this mission. Or is it only when the player numbers are low?
SoW Reddog
Feb-05-2014, 06:52
J-Hat, unless Salmo's changed it since I spoke to him last, each time an AI bomber formation is spawned, there is a chance it'll be escorted by AI fighters.
9./JG52_J-HAT
Feb-06-2014, 13:33
Thanks Reddog! Didn't know that!
EG14_Marcast
Feb-20-2014, 04:57
Salmo,
in a next update of Opertion Homeplate, would you please provide the Br20 with italian markings? It feels weird to fly it with german insignia :D
LuseKofte
Feb-20-2014, 11:14
Salmo,
in a next update of Opertion Homeplate, would you please provide the Br20 with italian markings? It feels weird to fly it with german insignia :D
:thumbsup:
I have started to like this bomber, a very though kite and maneuverable
9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Feb-20-2014, 21:04
One of the finest maps ever for CloD, I would even say revolutionary with the addition of bomb damage to airfields. However, I have noticed a few issues:
- AI bombers tend to cause 10-15 minute lags when they spawn in at higher player counts. This happens in all missions with AI but I notice it on Homeplate more than others.
- Clouds. There seems to be a complete blanket of low cloud over all of England which hurt FPS and also make it really, really easy to see every little dot down low since you can see through clouds. It's like having radar and really kills immersion and I think promotes vulching. Perhaps tone the clouds down some?
- Bad spawn points. Lots of spawn points are blocked off when they really don't need to be. The blast pens are ok to spawn in, but closing them all off makes some of the designated fields impossible to use. Oye-Plage for example has so many spawn points blocked off you spawn in a field on the other side of a river and there is no way to taxi to the runway.
- Scaling for larger player counts. The objectives are accomplished very quickly with high player counts. Typically when I play this mission blue or red will win in a little over an hour. Possible to increase airfield strength and/or add more airfields deeper in-land?
- Red objective focusing on aircraft destroyed is another innovative feature but since ALL blue aircraft destroyed count towards objective it increases really quickly. +2 penalty for landing at enemy bases and AI bombers hurt those actually on TS trying to coordinate human bomber/escort missions. The dogfight crowd doesn't care if they are getting a +2 penalty for their team. System might work better if only kills against bomber types increased objective score?
I don't know if development continues on this mission or not but maybe some of that feedback is helpful.
LuseKofte
Mar-14-2014, 19:48
I must ask for a spawn point for bombers at Tramecourt. Homeplate missions are evolving to a dogfight mission. Vulching at airbases make Bomberpilots very frustrated and quit. Today it started strong but soon only one bomber was airborne and the rest fighters.
I really do not understand the purpose of vulching bombers at airbases, they do not get the mission acquired kill , just some kind of war thunder behavior I personally resent.
Todays mission started with getting attacked by multiple Spits mid channel, fair enough, they did not get the mission kill there either, but they stopped a bomber.
Then when trying to spawn at Oye plate I got vulched. I left because I kind of getting tired being target practise in ATAG server before I even got started. That is my fault alone, I guess I grown a bit tired.
But this mission has always been one of my favorites, and now it is the third time I see people give up flying Bombers in it. I think bomberspawn further from shoreline might help this
This is the best mission on ATAG.
:salute:
Dynamic,a lot of action.
LuseKofte
Mar-14-2014, 21:12
Yes it was and is , but being cut down before takeoff kind of make no sense. All I wish for is a spawn point further from sea. Not a discussion on how good it is , apparently we agree one that point
But do not want any fuzz about it
https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1505633_10153882913055015_540617252_n.jpg
Vulcher haters rejoice. TF4.3 is nearly here & has 'improved' AA. The AA is better at tracking enemy aircraft (no more firing wildly in all directions) & flak fragment numbers have been increased for some flaks, so a greater liklihood of flak damaging enemy aircraft. The flak has NOT been made uber-deadly, TF has fixed some of the bugs that made flak highly inaccurate.
Testing in HP3.0 (Yes, there's a new version to be released with TF4.3) I was chased down to the airfield by 4 enemy fighters, the fighters buzzed the field. One was shot down by flak, one was damaged & the remainder disengaged & flew away. It is still possible for enemy fighters to buzz airfields, especially if they use evasive manouvers, but the longer they stay around the field the more the liklihood of getting hit by flak.
LuseKofte
Mar-14-2014, 22:09
ThxSalmo, I am used to vulchers, they do not provoke me anymore. It is just very hard winning this map for the Blue. And if the red come over and gulch they really do not win either, since bombers falling over france.
I just want this mission played as it was intended, large bomber formations with defending RAF fighters. Most of the time that is exactly what happens so I wont make any drama about this
[quote[I really do not understand the purpose of vulching bombers at airbases, they do not get the mission acquired kill , just some kind of war thunder behavior I personally resent.[/quote]
They do not get a mission point for Reds but by making you leave the server they reduce the chance of Blue getting a mission point. Nevertheless, I see why you would get frustrated and leave. If I can say something in mitigation, several times I have followed the radar bearings to the nearest bomber (not usually in this map) and found that it has actually brought me to a base where a bomber is taking off. Yes I then proceeded to dive in and kill it but I did not set out with the aim of vulching bombers and I left soon after It is not worth the time and effort of flying to Tramecourt 'just in case a bomber spawns before my fuel runs out' because human bombers are so rare and if the bombers are spawning at bases near Calais then why aren't the Blue fighters killing the vulchers who would be easy kills?
What is needed is better AA (tick. Already sorted for Monday), a choice of bomber bases away from the main areas (Tramcourt is well placed but as soon as a 111 spawns the Reds know where it must be so there needs to be another, maybe near St Omer), and more incentive to fly bombers as it is a high chance of death for very little recognition (stats need to count all targets destroyed, not just ships and trains, as well as 'tonnage dropped on airfields') I have destroyed a radar station and dropped about 6000lb of bombs on target airfields (at 500lbs per sortie) in the last 24 hours but according to the stats I have not hit anything!
9./JG52_J-HAT
Mar-15-2014, 06:16
Hehe make blue unable to win by pissing off their players and make them leave and juat wait out on the mission time.
I flew this mission on Thursday and didn't even have a chance to go past mid-channel. The 30 - 40 minutes I was on there was constantly something over the bases. There were some 5 or 6 109s defending our bases, me included, and Spitfires harrassing constantly.
I'm looking forward to the new flak!
LuseKofte
Mar-15-2014, 07:58
Well I am trying not to whine about it, I read that was the goal of many players to get opponents frustrated and leave. In my case they succeed. It is something with the attitude of how it is done.
Well I have reduced my flighttime in Clod down to 5% of what it was a couple of month ago, I cannot say I am inflicting a great loss together with my trusted Heinkel.
And I hope ATAG server and clod as a whole grows in popularity, but I am probably well under way to get fed up by it all.
RebelSqurl
Mar-15-2014, 10:40
Since Homeplate does not require any bombing missions by Red, perhaps one solution is to adopt the "invisible line of death" for the Red team to prevent them from going to France and thus forced to stay on the defensive? Not necessarily advocating this, but tossing it out there as an idea for discussion.
LuseKofte
Mar-15-2014, 11:07
I think a more organized type of flying is required, in that I am guilty. I prefer high altitude bombing by my own. Another possibility is I am starting to grow tired of clod and my patience wearing thin. I feel like ATAG server is turning into many times a dogfight server, this is not ATAG fault nor the mission makers. But it does means us that flyes bombers will stop flying this sim as a result.
But it is probably just me that is frustrated, I think things will be better in a short while
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