BoS Update is now live. December 06, 2013

[VMF214_Jupp]

http://s11.postimg.org/ugwiud7oz/Bo_S_Dec_6_2013.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FCM4z8kuE <--Me flying & listening to Pink Floyd Echoes:skydive:................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................O

[LuseKofte]

Got gready and blew my two weeks off in trade for two more weeks of work payed overtime. So again I have to wait

[Dutch]

:)

This 'update' has turned me into a shit-kicking ace, instantly. My shooting has never been this good.

Flying the LaGG, with it's non-functional vertical speed indicator, non-functional fuel gauge, and a gyro which reads 180 off (I struggled for a time with the sun being high in the northern sky, according to my gyro), I finally came across the 109 I was supposed to intercept head on. In order to confuse his aiming, I performed half of a barrel roll and made the most perfect deflection shot of my simming career, whilst inverted. It blew half his wing off and billows of smoke poured from his engine. I was elated.

Then I did it again with the second 109 and thought 'this is too easy'. Then two 109s spawned and I engaged them too, but had run out of ammo. Luckily another (AI) LaGG spawned so I hid behind him. Didn't do any good, one of the 109s gave me a severe form of enema.

What is a bit worrying, is that there are already people posting on the 'Stalingrad' forum that gunnery in the LaGG is too hard. Shit, I wish I had one of those LaGGs in Cliffs of Dover. :D

[Kling]

BOS doesnt find my rudder pedals... The only thing I can assign in the "yaw control" is my right rudder pedal toe break... So until I can use my rudder I cant really play this game... (

[ATAG_Striker]

there is now a teamspeak channel for this in our ATAG Teamspeak ........ :devilish::-P:-):salute:

[fruitbat]

Shooting is very easy in this game.

Flying a 109 is like clubbing baby seals, at least in the LaGG you have to think about your rudder.

[Dutch]

Flying a 109 is like clubbing baby seals, at least in the LaGG you have to think about your rudder.

I didn't experience that, old chum. I found it much easier to cull 109s than LaGGs. But then, I'm no 109 jock. But on either side it was way, way too easy. Waaaay too easy.
I hope they at least try to up the difficulty settings, because so far, it's a great game, but a very bad simulator.

[dburne]

BOS doesnt find my rudder pedals... The only thing I can assign in the "yaw control" is my right rudder pedal toe break... So until I can use my rudder I cant really play this game... (

It found mine, but pretty quickly lost them again - keep having to reassign them.

[dburne]

This evening was the first time I got to fly BOS. I am sure it is going to be really nice , but I just don't see myself getting away from Cliffs anytime soon...

[LizLemon]

I'll echo the sentiments that the gunnery seems to be too easy and the lagg seeming very easy to damage.

My first flight in a 109 resulted in an "ace in a day" for me. I was surprised at how easy it is to damage the Lagg engine, even when shooting from 6 o'clock. It took very little ammo on my part to bring down those 5 Laggs, and I would have continued if I hadn't run out of fuel - I guess that is what I get for flying with 30% fuel load.

Another odd thing is that both my wings broke upon landing. It was a bit off a rough landing in a field with a bit of bounce, but losing both wings seems odd, especially given where both break.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Well I finally got a chance to download it. No chance to fly it or set up my controls yet. But I have to say the textures of the external plane view and the cockpits are terrible. It reminds me of 10 year old IL2.

This was at 2560x1600 with every single setting cranked (to the max) and just like I had warned long ago, the plane textures are tiny. The rivets have no depth at all, it's almost like looking at a fuzzy blurry picture up close. Then when you zoom in close enough to try to see what the internals look like, 10 year old IL2 has better textures.

All I can say is if this game doesn't perform (with regards to objects and AI amounts of Clod / Old IL2) then they must have something seriously wrong with their game engine. There's no way textures this small in resolution should not be able to make the game run amazing with 300 people online at once. I'm very disappointed in the looks of it. The 109 cockpit is just awful. :(

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9281/hfig.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/hfig.jpg/)

I'm going to go take the same picture with Cliffs of Dover for a comparison. 2 minutes!

[Mastiff]

http://youtu.be/l6JuuvdqqdM

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I'm not having much luck with BoS which I am putting down to it only being 35% complete. It keeps loosing my control assignments and I have problems with stuttering especially when the other planes around me.

I get silly bugs like the engine starts up but nothing will work so even thought the propellers spinning and I can hear the engine, I have to start the engine again and It goes through the startup sequence a second time.

I thought CoD was bad when acquiring targets with its LOD problem, But on my system with my settings even with markers on I cant see the enemy aircraft at times only the markers.

There is lots of work for them to do and I might give it a rest till they can get their act together and sort out some of it's issues.

Not sure I like their flaming balls of fire tracers and smoke effects definitely need attention.

Cheers!

[palker]

I'll echo the sentiments that the gunnery seems to be too easy and the lagg seeming very easy to damage.

My first flight in a 109 resulted in an "ace in a day" for me. I was surprised at how easy it is to damage the Lagg engine, even when shooting from 6 o'clock. It took very little ammo on my part to bring down those 5 Laggs, and I would have continued if I hadn't run out of fuel - I guess that is what I get for flying with 30% fuel load.

Another odd thing is that both my wings broke upon landing. It was a bit off a rough landing in a field with a bit of bounce, but losing both wings seems odd, especially given where both break.

I would expect nothing less from aircraft nicknamed "Lakirovanny Garantirovanny Grob" (Varnished guaranteed grave/coffin) by its pilots.

[dburne]

Well I finally got a chance to download it. No chance to fly it or set up my controls yet. But I have to say the textures of the external plane view and the cockpits are terrible. It reminds me of 10 year old IL2.

I'm going to go take the same picture with Cliffs of Dover for a comparison. 2 minutes!

That was part of my initial impression yesterday evening as well - but there was no way imho this sim, or any currently, is going to approach the beauty and detail of Cliffs of Dover planes/cockpits.

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

I went ahead and downloaded last week. Early days but way too easy FM and DM - CloD is far superior in many areas. I hope they get it right but I can't see me getting over excited about this title!

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

Well I finally got a chance to download it. No chance to fly it or set up my controls yet. But I have to say the textures of the external plane view and the cockpits are terrible. It reminds me of 10 year old IL2.

This was at 2560x1600 with every single setting cranked (to the max) and just like I had warned long ago, the plane textures are tiny. The rivets have no depth at all, it's almost like looking at a fuzzy blurry picture up close. Then when you zoom in close enough to try to see what the internals look like, 10 year old IL2 has better textures.

All I can say is if this game doesn't perform (with regards to objects and AI amounts of Clod / Old IL2) then they must have something seriously wrong with their game engine. There's no way textures this small in resolution should not be able to make the game run amazing with 300 people online at once. I'm very disappointed in the looks of it. The 109 cockpit is just awful. :(

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9281/hfig.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/hfig.jpg/)

I'm going to go take the same picture with Cliffs of Dover for a comparison. 2 minutes!

You are looking through the pilots goggles. Go into the data/start file and change the ssao to 0 on both lines.

[ATAG_Bliss]

You are looking through the pilots goggles. Go into the data/start file and change the ssao to 0 on both lines.

Oh they were.. I even tried turning up SSAO for the heck of it (I used to play ROF so I know all about their graphics stuff/settings).

It looks like that because their textures are tiny.

[1lokos]

..I am putting down to it only being 35% complete.

http://www.demandcon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/icon3-150x150.png 'mode':

... only 7 months to do 65% with more 8 planes, include two bombers, decent DM and effects... :recon:

Hope that this "hit = instant cloud of fire/smoke/'confetti' (WoP/WT) are improved... :thumbsup:

Sokol1

[LizLemon]

... only 7 months to do 65% with more 8 planes, include two bombers, decent DM and effects... :recon:

Hope that this "hit = instant cloud of fire/smoke/'confetti' (WoP/WT) are improved... :thumbsup:

Sokol1

Speaking of WT, that game is currently undergoing an overhaul that has many players up in arms. Of course there is a subset of players who don't mind the changes, countering any criticism by bringing up the fact that the game is in beta....

I know development of games can be quite messy, but I doubt most of the textures and effect, DM, ect are placeholder given that spring isn't that far off. I'd bet that most of what we are seeing now is intended to be final, and if there are any changes it will be because the community complained. This is why the "remember its beta" crowd is doing a disservice to the game imho - you can't just expect anything to get better if you say nothing.

[vranac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI70E5BccYY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQrFZ6NrZQ4

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

10 mins is all I had..

I cannot play that game with those tracers...hideous and yes I know its WIP but imo and mo only I cannot watch that... and 1 hit from 109 cannon and wings snap off il2 styley..

Still its WIP but I sure hope they change those tennis balls for tracers

[gavagai]

10 mins is all I had..

I cannot play that game with those tracers...hideous and yes I know its WIP but imo and mo only I cannot watch that... and 1 hit from 109 cannon and wings snap off il2 styley..

Still its WIP but I sure hope they change those tennis balls for tracers

This is an old topic from Rise of Flight:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=351&t=24233

Easy gunnery has always been an issue in Rise of Flight, so this isn't surprising. "Instant wings-off" damage model is there, too. They did improve things with 1.026, though, which finally gave a more believable bullet dispersion.

Again and again, I have the distinct impression that many BoS customers never bothered to learn about Rise of Flight and its strengths and weaknesses before they preordered. Some of you have no idea how futile it will be to argue for obvious improvements.

[Archie]

Took off, flew around, shot all the LaGGs down with no effort at all, and landed. Meh. I'm a crap fighter pilot, and hardly ever shoot anything down in CoD. It is almost as if BoS is on 'easy' settings.
It seems a bit 'arcade' currently, and as soon as I turn it off and jump into CoD I have a sad face at what we have lost.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

This is an old topic from Rise of Flight:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=351&t=24233

Easy gunnery has always been an issue in Rise of Flight, so this isn't surprising. "Instant wings-off" damage model is there, too. They did improve things with 1.026, though, which finally gave a more believable bullet dispersion.

Again and again, I have the distinct impression that many BoS customers never bothered to learn about Rise of Flight and its strengths and weaknesses before they preordered. Some of you have no idea how futile it will be to argue for obvious improvements.

Well from my point of view and mine only if it doesn't change, a lot.... I wont be playing it Yes we can bang on about an Alpha and WiP but we don't know what parts are indeed wip and Alpha..

To me that whole weapon situation is hideous, maybe and I say this loosely the sounds are 'okay' and people over there are banging on about it being the greatest they have seen..? really? seriously? Put that crack pipe down son, its damaging your health.. there is nothing even remotely that feels real about that atm, Glowing tennis balls as tracers?..tracers do not look anything like that fact, not even 50 cal tracers look like that so I hope they are just placeholders

[dburne]

10 mins is all I had..

I cannot play that game with those tracers...


Then you really do not want to view the exhaust flames in external view... trust me....

[dburne]

To me that whole weapon situation is hideous, maybe and I say this loosely the sounds are 'okay' and people over there are banging on about it being the greatest they have seen..? really? seriously?

Yeah I keep seeing all this praise that folks can not even believe it is Alpha with all the greatness it already has.
I am not saying this to knock the sim, as I am sure the final product will be decent enough - but too me, it is very much an alpha product. I do hope there are some major improvements to the graphics, sound fx, plane handling, etc by the time they get to the finished product. It says it is 35% complete, hopefully a lot of the stuff I mentioned remains in the 65% that is not complete...
I have been playing around with it for the first time this weekend - think I will save tomorrow for some quality Cliffs of Dover time :).

[Mastiff]

here's a for instance its defiantly Alpha.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTSqaTPkZ-U&feature=share&list=UU1z2Ak7eJDtQ41i4IZCaeyQ

[1lokos]

Well, seems that what are show until now "win heart and minds". :thumbsup:

People like "Hollywood" effects. :)

6159
"sencillamente ESPECTACULAR !!!!"
"damage models are amazingly well done. "

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2814-general-thoughts-impressions-and/#entry62826

Sokol1

[vranac]

Yes it's alpha )

What you see in cockpits, terrain, lightning , shadows it's not. That's finished.
Effects , tracers , DM effects ,thats alfa and that could be changed.

FM , look at my post above with two videos. They have different approach to FM then old il2 and CloD and they can't tweak it with parameters ( coefficients)
like TF is doing that with CloD. They have to change the engine to do that.


Posted by-atas-
I say only that "can not allow" because affirm or reverse it I did not have enough data. Because ideal models do not exist, for me it is logical to assume that any can can concede something. If someone wants to prove otherwise, why not? (That turned out that the model was revised ICH in WT. Maybe she modeled in WT more detail? Will genuinely interested to know.)



I agree with you and then acted to clarify for all that any secrets or conspiracies are not explained by deficiencies or lack of information. In ROF revision of FM does not happen, we just refine data on specific aircraft, we have a very different approach then CloD, they have a common model with the nuances, we have no general model,it is the environment. You see, I'm answering your question. And the constant questions about flying without wings, the wings of the wings we respond, we give an explanation about the photo. Immediately out that there is an opinion that's all very cool, cooler than anywhere else, I suppose. But check it can not be because there are a hundred reasons why it is necessary to believe but can not be verified by scientific methods, it is very reminiscent of the doctrine of the church. This is the reason for my discontent and performances. We're talking about math but why then constantly in terms of faith.

About EMG will not say anything because he did not conduct deep tests with the unit of measure changes in the characteristics as chat messages are not anything other than posts in the chat. I spoke more about aerodynamics and the impact of the laws of physics on the plane, which creates a feeling of flight and eventually allow the use of the aircraft correctly and draw conclusions similar to those which were made by pilots in the war. If during the release of the project has not been given much time it unprecedented opportunities, patents and know-how, I would not have been so insistent. There is CH or AceCombat. There's games, with a degree of realism that seemed sufficient for developers to implement their ideas. Everything was different, so there are different now. I'm for truth, it is sometimes in dispute. If our work will not be mentioned further in comparisons with faith I will not write posts about our project here know enough and no sense to increase citation no.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D72875%26s%3D8c65bf5cd82febe2f bb52d1745e29fef%26p%3D1733106%26viewfull%3D1&usg=ALkJrhgWaEZAJLLapKfM7hV9XbWqHE3EnA#post1733106

Sorry , it's to late to translate all of that but you can see the date and the most important info about ND engine.

[VMF214_Jupp]

http://s28.postimg.org/a7y5n6z7x/What_was_I_thinking.jpg

[ATAG_Colander]

What do you mean? I see comments like this:

I like dog fights already more than CoD ever. A very promising start. This game has the same immersive magic that IL2 did before it was hacked.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

What do you mean? I see comments like this:

*quoted Text*

That's just pathetic reading that..

I have absolutely zero respect for anyone that can come out with a comment like that...

[Archie]

Trouble is fritzi they really believe what they are saying, which is just...weird.

[Black]

Ohh boy, looks like many idiots gather at BoS which is good. Maybe they got tired of Warthunder! :banghead:

By the way, the last game I read "Guys it's only the beta, everything will be fine after release" it was 10 times worse after release; tons of problems that weren't even in the beta! "WIP" for me is a lame excuse nowadays to get the custormers money by fooling them it will be fixed in the end. Maybe not always but very often!

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

Trouble is fritzi they really believe what they are saying, which is just...weird.

Indeed m8

[LizLemon]

Ohh boy, looks like many idiots gather at BoS which is good. Maybe they got tired of Warthunder! :banghead:

By the way, the last game I read "Guys it's only the beta, everything will be fine after release" it was 10 times worse after release; tons of problems that weren't even in the beta! "WIP" for me is a lame excuse nowadays to get the custormers money by fooling them it will be fixed in the end. Maybe not always but very often!

Its funny to see how the terms "alpha" and "beta" get applied to just about everything, regardless of the actually state of the build. Although my favorite is when "pre-alpha" screens pop up for a game 6 months before release even though its been in development for years :D


Its a nice little marketing technique that lets allows you to easily deflect any criticism. The odd thing is how many people actually buy into it, but some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

[Black]

Its funny to see how the terms "alpha" and "beta" get applied to just about everything, regardless of the actually state of the build. Although my favorite is when "pre-alpha" screens pop up for a game 6 months before release even though its been in development for years :D


Its a nice little marketing technique that lets allows you to easily deflect any criticism. The odd thing is how many people actually buy into it, but some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

Exactly and when the product is released with all the flaws the same people will say "C'mon guys, give the developers time to patch it!"

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

That's the "bad" side of marketing... and it works.

I just wish Luthier and Oleg had these fine concepts ready for their release(s) too.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

Exactly and when the product is released with all the flaws the same people will say "C'mon guys, give the developers time to patch it!"

Deluded bunch of f*knuts half of them..

I cannot spend too much time over in that forum...its like half of them have absolutely no idea or experience with ww2 birds in the sim world and now they are experts...the tracer situation is hilarious, basing all their info on 'saving private Ryan'

[gavagai]

Its funny to see how the terms "alpha" and "beta" get applied to just about everything, regardless of the actually state of the build. Although my favorite is when "pre-alpha" screens pop up for a game 6 months before release even though its been in development for years :D


Its a nice little marketing technique that lets allows you to easily deflect any criticism. The odd thing is how many people actually buy into it, but some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

The RoF single player career mode is still a "beta" almost 3 years after its release. It doesn't take much time to figure out that they call it a beta because it is so poorly implemented.

[Old_Canuck]

This is the first time in 10 years that I resisted the impulse to plunge headlong into a new sim. Will keep reading what you guys have to say and will ignore what the BoS'ers say until they sober up. The devs. might get it sorted out because it seems they've got a lot of capital behind them but time will tell and OC's wallet will stay firmly in pocket.

[Mastiff]

lol to bad; goes for the same as well for CLOD its still beta.. I like BOS; looks good. and will have many different planes sets faster then what Team Confusion can put out.
and probably more accurate.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

This is the first time in 10 years that I resisted the impulse to plunge headlong into a new sim. Will keep reading what you guys have to say and will ignore what the BoS'ers say until they sober up. The devs. might get it sorted out because it seems they've got a lot of capital behind them but time will tell and OC's wallet will stay firmly in pocket.

Good Idea

It will be fixed or should I say, they have time to fix all these things and I sincerely hope they do, we need another sim on the block

But what is ruining it for me is the pathetic views on how great it is already, its really not and I urge what it is they are basing their views on...It needs tons of work yet so I wish they would just stfu and let the devs fix the game instead of putting everyone into a false sense of security with it especially any newcomers

Talking out your hoop isn't helping anyone and as a matter of fact is very detrimental to the final product being what we want..

bloody fairy mongers over there are not savvy enough to realize that though....

''all hail BoS, its fantastic and is the best sim I've ever played'' Hmmm

[Mastiff]

Good Idea

It will be fixed or should I say, they have time to fix all these things and I sincerely hope they do, we need another sim on the block

But what is ruining it for me is the pathetic views on how great it is already, its really not and I urge what it is they are basing their views on...It needs tons of work yet so I wish they would just stfu and let the devs fix the game instead of putting everyone into a false sense of security with it especially any newcomers

Talking out your hoop isn't helping anyone and as a matter of fact is very detrimental to the final product being what we want..

bloody fairy mongers over there are not savvy enough to realize that though....

''all hail BoS, its fantastic and is the best sim I've ever played'' Hmmm

fix the game?! do you mean finish a started project?

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

fix the game?! do you mean finish a started project?

Yes I did

[ATAG_Naz]

"Team Confusion" ? ... Really Mastiff ? Really?

:pff:

[Mastiff]

"Team Confusion" ? ... Really Mastiff ? Really?

:pff:

really until they fix the spit its team confusion.

[Bewolf]

This is the first time in 10 years that I resisted the impulse to plunge headlong into a new sim. Will keep reading what you guys have to say and will ignore what the BoS'ers say until they sober up. The devs. might get it sorted out because it seems they've got a lot of capital behind them but time will tell and OC's wallet will stay firmly in pocket.

I hear you. Let's see, BoS has the potential to become a very good Sim just as much as IL2 1946. Only problems I have is:

a) The Il2 concept is over 10 years old. Back when it was released it was the creme de la creme. But just copying Il1946 in regards to flight fidelity with a few upgrades here and there does not cut it anymore. From what I have seen it "looks" a lot watered down from CloD. Will have to get a demo at times to check it out myself. Hopefully there is one, else it's dead from the start.

b) I got burned by ROF. Apart several attepmts to get into this Sim, there were too many issues here that got onto my nerves. The lack of a propper online campaigns, a very low MP frequency but most of all their business model.
I understand they charge extra for new planes. Planes are a lot of work mand giving them out for free like the Maddox guys did won't come back. I could have lived with that. But all the extras for individual planes as well? That felt like rip off. Releasing a "Black Cross" edition with 10 flyables for 30 bucks after I payed the full price for only 4 planes in the beginning did not help either.

But I will watch, read and observe what is happening at BoS and make a descision later, but for sure I won't make the same mistake again and get it at release when 1 or 2 years down the line is a new Edition with lots of planes waiting. But by then DCS WW2 may already be in shape to be a much more realistic contender.

[PFT_Endy]

fix the game?! do you mean finish a started project?

The thing is two most dominant attitudes on BoS forums will not help the game, but can potentially destroy it. These are:

1. "It's the best thing since sliced bread! awesome game, best sim EVAR!!!" - mostly by people who know little about sims, ignoring the fact that FM and DM are shit tbh, that effects suck etc. If they had their way the game could be released in the current state and they'd be happy.

2. "It's alpha/beta/current stuff is placeholders, give the devs time!" I sort of know where they're coming from, they see the potential but at the same time want to be kind to the devs hushing all the disappointed and concerned voices etc.

The problem is that both these attitudes only reinforce the ideas in the devs that they can leave some stuff as it is because people apparently don't mind them (FM, DM, tracers, cockpits, effects). Add to that the fact they're not even commenting what's a placeholder and what isn't, which only reinforces the idea that that's the stuff suggested for release being tested, because why would they waste time creating placeholder cockpit textures or effects - it doesn't even make sense but some people believe it.

It's the same thing with all new game releases and still people don't learn that now is the exact time in the development cycle to create as much outrage about some issues as possible so that devs can't ignore it. Only then will they double their efforts to improve some things. If it isn't done then the game will be released with crappy stuff players obviously didn't mind enough and then it'll be too late to do anything.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

The thing is two most dominant attitudes on BoS forums will not help the game, but can potentially destroy it. These are:

1. "It's the best thing since sliced bread! awesome game, best sim EVAR!!!" - mostly by people who know little about sims, ignoring the fact that FM and DM are shit tbh, that effects suck etc. If they had their way the game could be released in the current state and they'd be happy.

2. "It's alpha/beta/current stuff is placeholders, give the devs time!" I sort of know where they're coming from, they see the potential but at the same time want to be kind to the devs hushing all the disappointed and concerned voices etc.

The problem is that both these attitudes only reinforce the ideas in the devs that they can leave some stuff as it is because people apparently don't mind them (FM, DM, tracers, cockpits, effects). Add to that the fact they're not even commenting what's a placeholder and what isn't, which only reinforces the idea that that's the stuff suggested for release being tested, because why would they waste time creating placeholder cockpit textures or effects - it doesn't even make sense but some people believe it.

It's the same thing with all new game releases and still people don't learn that now is the exact time in the development cycle to create as much outrage about some issues as possible so that devs can't ignore it. Only then will they double their efforts to improve some things. If it isn't done then the game will be released with crappy stuff players obviously didn't mind enough and then it'll be too late to do anything.

Exactly what I was revering too...they cant even see they are damaging the game before it is even released

[Mastiff]

Exactly what I was revering too...they cant even see they are damaging the game before it is even released

yes and that's why 777 and 1CGS really shouldn't have done it this way, but to get more income and money flow,they want to make some behind the scenes involvement with the project. Which I'm sure their wincing.:-)

[Black]

lol to bad; goes for the same as well for CLOD its still beta.. I like BOS; looks good. and will have many different planes sets faster then what Team Confusion can put out.
and probably more accurate.

You got dismissed from the TF beta team and now you feel the need to post this? :doh:

[ATAG_Naz]

really until they fix the spit its team confusion.

Charming

[1lokos]

... because why would they waste time creating placeholder cockpit textures or effects - it doesn't even make sense but some people believe it.

I hate these "WT" effects.... :doh:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2814-general-thoughts-impressions-and/#entry62826

And think that they are in release...

Sokol1

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

I note that the "praise" on the forum comments for BoS is mainly by virtue of comparisons to War Thunder.

Clearly the player base isn't even aware that CloD exists and already does all the things they're praising BoS for....

[Archie]

A lot of people have done a good hatchet job on CoD, so some won't even entertain the idea of trying it to see for themselves.

[gavagai]

really until they fix the spit its team confusion.

What is wrong with the Spitfire, Mastiff?

[ATAG_Snapper]

What is wrong with the Spitfire, Mastiff?

The Spitfire 1a 100 octane is too low in top speed at sea level, plus if BCOO is used to spec the Merlin will overheat prematurely. The TF patch 4.00 resolved the high altitude performance issues of the Spits very well, at the unfortunate cost of its low altitude performance.

As a (virtual) Spitfire pilot myself, with over 2000 hours on type in Clod, I immediately climb to 20+ angels where the Spitfire 1a 100 octane and Spitfire 2a fly very well. This is the domain of high altitude bomber raids and their 109/110 escorts. I try to avoid low level dogfights, although I've shot down my share of 109 's on the deck, too. I just have to fly smarter.....which hurts my head. Another historically-correct 20 mph on the deck would cause 109 pilots' heads to hurt. :D

But to diss a fantastic collection of volunteers who give freely of their time over a few missing mph is beyond belief. :doh:

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Im not going to comment on what's been said so far in this thread, been there, done that.

Il just say im really enjoying BOS so far, and post some shots.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/51/pnzt.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/1fpnztj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/12/r0tb.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/0cr0tbj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/208/oby3.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/5soby3j)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/59/n165.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/1nn165j)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/35/n8r1.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/0zn8r1j)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/35/iqw8.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/0ziqw8j)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/856/q7ow.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/nsq7owj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/802/kynd.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/makyndj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/690/by5u.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/j6by5uj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/36/mnpf.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/10mnpfj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/833/f79v.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/n5f79vj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/9/bxo1.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/09bxo1j)

[Chivas]

I think alpha/beta's are good terms to use for sims that the developers plan to evolve over the next ten years. Almost every feature in these sims will change and evolve depending on the developers priority list, which sometimes doesn't match the priorities of some in their communities, for valid reasons.

Oleg was in the process of building another game engine that would allow another ten/twenty years of high quality improvements. Most here see its potential, and Team Fusion continues to make it happen. Unfortunately COD was crucified in the forums by people with the foresight of a nat, which gave COD a very poor rap that will be hard to change. The current BOS beta is relatively easy to fly, and put bullets on target, which suits a big portion of the community, COD is on the other end of the spectrum. As we've seen in the original IL-2, most of the community flew in rooms with more relaxed settings. BOS will evolve into a decent sim that will probably garner a larger community simply because its easier. COD if it doesn't will need setting to make flying a little more stable, for easier gun solutions, and a damage model visually devastating, if it wants to compete for popularity. That said I don't think the majority of COD users, and modders care as they certainly aren't in it for the money. All that's needed is a full server with preferred settings.

Personally I'm somewhere in the middle. I find the current BOS alpha/beta easy, and find COD to be somewhat frustrating keeping my aircraft steady enough for decent deflection shooting.

[gavagai]

But to diss a fantastic collection of volunteers who give freely of their time over a few missing mph is beyond belief. :doh:

And a huge double standard. Mastiff never criticizes far worse problems in 777's work.

[Royraiden]

lol to bad; goes for the same as well for CLOD its still beta.. I like BOS; looks good. and will have many different planes sets faster then what Team Confusion can put out.
and probably more accurate.

That quote summarizes your attitude," If my plane isnt perfect I cannot compete, cuz well, you know I dont have skills". I have never insulted/put down some one else on these forums but I feel glad calling you a pathetic loser.Putting down a team of volounteers that not only fixed CLOD but also improved it to the point that it set the bar for WW2 sims and on the other hand you praise Jason and 777/1CGS despite all the bollocks that goes on over there like the constant censorship,Jason himself dissing CLOD every time he can, ignoring constructive criticism and suggestions and the list goes on.I for one will NEVER support those guys, yet I dont expect or hope for them to fail,yet on the other hand from their actions it pretty clear that they dont want any type of competition and would do whatever they can to stay on top.Oleg and Ilya not being able to even mention the name of the sim they worked on for almost a decade, do I need to say anything else??

Those are the guys you praise and feel so proud to support while on the other hand dissing TF for doing the impossible FOR FREE!!!!!!!!! Speaks a lot about yourself son.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Salute

Gentlemen, no sense in engaging in heated discussion at this point.

From my perspective making a judgement on BoS at this stage is premature. Obviously the sim has some issues, but as they say: "35%".

The release will tell what the reality is. In the meantime the developers no doubt will be working hard.

Regarding Mastiff's complaint:

As an ordinary member of ATAG's forums, he is entitled to post his opinions in public, but as a member of the Beta testers, that opinion and the details of betas should have been kept to the beta forums.

That is why he was removed from the tester's team.

We will be implementing changes to the Spit IA 100 octane in regards to its speed, as well as the general overheat characteristics of the Merlin III engined aircraft.

These will be released with TF 4.01.

We haven't released those yet because there are a whole other layer of changes coming with TF 4.01 and those are still being worked on.

Thanks for your patience. :salute:

[gavagai]

He is also perfectly content with the Rise of Flight Sopwith Camel being a super-plane. Basically, if the error is in favor of his favorite plane, he praises the developer. If it's a temporary problem that negatively affects his favorite, he goes into insult-mode.

I would expect that TF will probably try to improve the Spit FM again in the future, which is a lot more than anyone can say for 777's track record.

[fruitbat]

After flying it a bit more this afternoon, i am slightly perplexed.

I must have it in some sort of arcade mode, only i can't find the switch to turn it off.

Clod, is much much better imo at this current time.

[dburne]

I am not going into any details, I have to say though I am quite surprised at some of the stuff that is being posted over there in the last couple of days. Gives me more appreciation for Cliffs.

[Dutch]

arcade mode.

Is there any other mode? It's a piece of rubbish. I recall a post by one of the development team, saying that they didn't want us early investors to be 'testers'. They really didn't want testers, honestly. They only wanted 'early investors' who would have a special skin and other orgasmic add-ons.

Isn't it strange that there are now a plethora of 'bug threads' instigated by Black6, wanting to know about 'bugs we have found'. Eh? I thought we weren't supposed to be 'testers', just privileged individuals....... Ah me, will I never learn?

The game is already pants, and it will get progressively 'pantser'. I mean, how does one reload? One reloads by pressing the 'reload' button. I despair. Bigly.

[dburne]

Isn't it strange that there are now a plethora of 'bug threads' instigated by Black6, wanting to know about 'bugs we have found'. Eh? I thought we weren't supposed to be 'testers', just privileged individuals....... Ah me, will I never learn?



Interestingly I asked that very question in the questions to developers thread, some time ago. ie, were they going to have a testers group or were they counting on those who pre-paid to get early access, to be that group for them?
I got well, an extremely vague response - which really did not answer the question...

[LuseKofte]

How I hate discussions like this. BOS might be the game that bring more flyers to clod. One ting is for sure clod itself do not atract enough Deeming a alpha in that way tells everyone you got secondary motif. The one sim does not rule out the other. I will not stop flying clod because of bos

[Dutch]

Deeming a alpha in that way tells everyone you got secondary motif. The one sim does not rule out the other. I will not stop flying clod because of bos

Sorry folks, I'll try to translate, correct me if I'm wrong please. :)

'Demeaning an Alpha in this way simply affirms in the minds of others that you have an ulterior motive. The existence of one Flight Sim does not negate the existence of another. I think Cliffs of Dover is shit kickingly fucking fantastic, and I won't stop being a right bloody fanboi, even though this ridiculous 'Stalingrad' thing is the flavour of the month. It's a right piece of Toss.'

Signed- ZG26Jaeger.

:)

[ATAG_JTDawg]

Sorry folks, I'll try to translate, correct me if I'm wrong please. :)

'Demeaning an Alpha in this way simply affirms in the minds of others that you have an ulterior motive. The existence of one Flight Sim does not negate the existence of another. I think Cliffs of Dover is shit kickingly fucking fantastic, and I won't stop being a right bloody fanboi, even though this ridiculous 'Stalingrad' thing is the flavour of the month. It's a right piece of Toss.'

Signed- ZG26Jaeger.

:)

roflmao

[Dutch]

roflmao

Thanks mate, I needed that one. :)

[StormBat]

Charming


Don't mind Mastiff, he has a way burning bridges and talking out of his ass sometimes. does it make him right, hell no. He can be his own worst enemy sometimes. but when you get to know him you just shrug it off and think to yourself "That's Mastiff for you, never learning from his comments and losing respect from people all the time" But he doesn't get to me. I kinda feel sorry for him, he's like a puppy pissing on an electric fence he hurts himself over and over again and never thinks it's him, but everyone else.
:P

[Archie]

Gunsights, do we need them? Bloody silly things that just get in the way.TF take note.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2904-gunsights-do-you-need-them/

[LuseKofte]

Thx Dutch for the translate.
The thing is you ATAG people has been negative to BOS since you heard it would come. And your arrogant tone just make your agenda clearer.

I just cannot understand why it is so wrong getting another WW2 sim in this world.
Liking BOS does not mean disliking CLOD.

This critique you give BOS is ridiculous since it is a alpha version of the game, and not a finished product, it is pretty obvious that you never intended to give this game a chance.

[Archie]

The more flight sims the merrier I say! See BoS for what it is, a step down from what we have got used to in CoD, and things get a lot easier. All I want to do is fly with my friends.
I do keep trying to push buttons and move levers in the cockpit with my mouse though, which is bloody annoying.

[LizLemon]

Gunsights, do we need them? Bloody silly things that just get in the way.TF take note.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2904-gunsights-do-you-need-them/

This same guy was suggesting that the 109s odd and inaccurate pitching behavior shouldn't be fixed because it'd make shooting down the LaGGs even easier :doh:

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Thx Dutch for the translate.
The thing is you ATAG people has been negative to BOS since you heard it would come. And your arrogant tone just make your agenda clearer.

I just cannot understand why it is so wrong getting another WW2 sim in this world.
Liking BOS does not mean disliking CLOD.

This critique you give BOS is ridiculous since it is a alpha version of the game, and not a finished product, it is pretty obvious that you never intended to give this game a chance.

I'm not a member of ATAG, but I have been fairly consistently clear in my opinion that any flight sim is a good flight sim. And I think a lot of people in ATAG would be quite happy to see a good Eastern Front option available to fly.:thumbsup:

This is a tough crowd though, they will very directly point out flaws in games and say what they think if they don't like it... :no:

In fact it gives me cold sweats at night thinking of the lynch mobs which would form should I really screw things up with CoD's FM... :guilty:

[Archie]

I think one of the problems is the more rabid 'yes men' on their forum. Even with the current FM issues (and it is alpha!, so WiP I hope) some will still try to argue that everything is just perfect as it is. These people do a great disservice to everybody.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

I think one of the problems is the more rabid 'yes men' on their forum. Even with the current FM issues (and it is alpha!, so WiP I hope) some will still try to argue that everything is just perfect as it is. These people do a great disservice to everybody.

I think Oster, that many (not all) of the "yes men" are coming from War Thunder. For these players, BoS is a massive jump forward in terms of realism. It makes sense that these players would be loving it.

People who are used to the complexity of CloD might be less enthusiastic.

I guess the expectation is partly based on what people have played before. CloD (in its current an on-going state) certainly sets the bar very high.

[gavagai]

Thx Dutch for the translate.
The thing is you ATAG people has been negative to BOS since you heard it would come. And your arrogant tone just make your agenda clearer.

I just cannot understand why it is so wrong getting another WW2 sim in this world.
Liking BOS does not mean disliking CLOD.

This critique you give BOS is ridiculous since it is a alpha version of the game, and not a finished product, it is pretty obvious that you never intended to give this game a chance.

It is not just another WW2 sim. They are trying to move the genre toward the newest marketing fads: unlocks for grinding single-player; exclusive weapons and skins for those willing to preorder; the attempt to sell community status....and there will be more!

I'm not saying that they're making BoS "pay to win," but anyone who wonders about why they're doing things this way should watch this presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

The discussion of "peacocks," i.e. marketing content to those who need to visually stand out, really stands out.

[dburne]

I guess the expectation is partly based on what people have played before. CloD (in its current an on-going state) certainly sets the bar very high.

Absolutely, the bar has been set very high! I suspect it will be quite some time before another sim comes this close to what we have now.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

Special shout out to Furbs! Thanks for the great screenies too. :thumbsup:

I'd also like to mention that anyone who has seen real tracers coming at them in the real air might reconsider their size complaint.

Being on the recieving end of .50cal (or aerial phos/incendiary) tracers looks allot more like softballs not tennis, although I'm sure the pucker factor had something to do with it too. :stunned:

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

Sorry folks, I'll try to translate, correct me if I'm wrong please. :)

'Demeaning an Alpha in this way simply affirms in the minds of others that you have an ulterior motive. The existence of one Flight Sim does not negate the existence of another. I think Cliffs of Dover is shit kickingly fucking fantastic, and I won't stop being a right bloody fanboi, even though this ridiculous 'Stalingrad' thing is the flavour of the month. It's a right piece of Toss.'

Signed- ZG26Jaeger.

:)

Made my morning.................:):)

[Hood]

Wah wah wah we hate BoS wah wah wah. And people that support it are smelly. Wah wah wah.

That's how this thread sounds. Some of these comments are so childish it's quite amazing.

Wait until it's released then critique it to your heart's content. And don't knock the WT crowd just because you think CLOD is better - they may be the folks that ultimately keep this genre alive once they hunger for a more "real" fix.

Hood

[ATAG_Naz]

Special shout out to Furbs! Thanks for the great screenies too. :thumbsup:

I'd also like to mention that anyone who has seen real tracers coming at them in the real air might reconsider their size complaint.

Being on the recieving end of .50cal (or aerial phos/incendiary) tracers looks allot more like softballs not tennis, although I'm sure the pucker factor had something to do with it too. :stunned:

Heh heh, I've never seen tracers in real life so I never comment one way or another...but you made me chuckle there mate, I know the pucker factor would certainly have been high if I was in that situation. Respect man :salute:

As.for the rest of this thread, I'll stay out of it, the whole argument either way is rather tiresome for mine. I've only flown the Lagg in the alpha and enjoyed it. I'll fly it again when the alpha/beta has some more meat to it. Much like vanilla Cliffs, it will be what it will be and I am quite sure (again much like vanilla cliffs) I will like certain aspects and loathe others. Such is life.

:thumbsup:

[ATAG_Lolsav]

Thx Dutch for the translate.
The thing is you ATAG people has been negative to BOS since you heard it would come. And your arrogant tone just make your agenda clearer.

I believe Dutch was beeing "Dutch". His remarks are like those towards ATAG members too, nothing against your person, i believe

Err.. no agenda. I dont even have BOS. And im with you, the more the merrier, to get more players on the gendre and... may they find the way to us :)



This critique you give BOS is ridiculous since it is a alpha version of the game, and not a finished product, it is pretty obvious that you never intended to give this game a chance.

I have no problem to agree with you 100%. Product not done so it is supposed to be developing. Im a DCS backer because i believe in that team and there has been some critiques towars that development also, but i give that the same latitude i give BOS. Its not done yet.

Final note: There is some agressivity in this thread. What for? To make us all look like jerks? Cmon boys, we all want the same, a better sim. What does one win to offend other? Internet credits? Tone down pls?

ATAG forum started to be recognized to a enjoyable and helpfull place to go find information about a certain MOD. If someone has the bad luck of reading this thread first he will be thinking we have amongst us many unreasonable persons (i wanted to type another word but refrained myself).

S!

[Hood]

Unfortunately COD was crucified in the forums by people with the foresight of a nat

Don't forget that it was crucified because when it was released it was a piece of sh!t. Very different now of course but it's hard to see past a big smelly turd to 2 years down the line when it might turn into a rough diamond.


COD is on the other end of the spectrum.

CLOD aircraft fly on rails and my experiences so far is that CLOD is far easier to fly and fight in. Whether that's because of experience or BoS not being fully developed and buggy who knows.


BOS will evolve into a decent sim that will probably garner a larger community simply because its easier. COD if it doesn't will need setting to make flying a little more stable, for easier gun solutions, and a damage model visually devastating, if it wants to compete for popularity.

Is it easier? Cross-wind landing in CLOD is easier. Aiming etc in CLOD is easier. Seeing enemies in CLOD is easier etc etc etc. I think we must be playing different games.


I find the current BOS alpha/beta easy, and find COD to be somewhat frustrating keeping my aircraft steady enough for decent deflection shooting.

I think you're in a minority here.


Aaaaand let's all remember that BoS is at alpha stage. That's ALPHA stage i.e. not yet finished anywhere near being good enough for release. ALPHA for the hard of reading/comprehension.

And for the record I was using CLOD last night and it was lovely. Ground lovely, textures lovely, aircraft models lovely, effects lovely etc etc. It doesn't mean either is better than the other though especially when one is still in development. I also suspect that BoS will end up being harder.

We'll see but really the negative waves ought to stop because they're just silly.

Hood


ps Loslav is showing the way to go - credit to him.

[ATAG_Lolsav]

Wah wah wah we hate BoS wah wah wah. And people that support it are smelly. Wah wah wah.

That's how this thread sounds. Some of these comments are so childish it's quite amazing.

Wait until it's released then critique it to your heart's content. And don't knock the WT crowd just because you think CLOD is better - they may be the folks that ultimately keep this genre alive once they hunger for a more "real" fix.

Hood

Unfortunatly i have to agree with you. I had just typed a post with more or less the same content. Not so direct, but the same way.

[Mastiff]

Don't mind Mastiff, he has a way burning bridges and talking out of his ass sometimes. does it make him right, hell no. He can be his own worst enemy sometimes. but when you get to know him you just shrug it off and think to yourself "That's Mastiff for you, never learning from his comments and losing respect from people all the time" But he doesn't get to me. I kinda feel sorry for him, he's like a puppy pissing on an electric fence he hurts himself over and over again and never thinks it's him, but everyone else.
:P

ah see some one gets me, my bark is much less then my bite, I could really care less about BoS or CLOD, I just like stirring the pot.
I will fly all of them, Rise Of Flight, IL2 BoS, and CLOD. CLOD is by far a more superior graphical advanced engine. DX10 which should of been updated to DX11.
But with the invention of more complexity of gaming engines the longer and hard it is to program in them. Hence the reason BoS is not going to advance its engine from DX9, to DX11, due to the enormous cost it will create. for such a small business to accomplish. look; not to long ago a lot of you guys were crying about how long CLOD was taking.
7 Plus years, that's because of the sim is over engineered, way ahead of its time. So I hope to see in the future more content for CLOD, and on the other side more Maps for BoS.
I know the digital Nature engine is running Cliffs of Dover map made just last year and if anyone had any business sense to capitalize on that; I wouldn't be to surprised to see a WWII version, or the European Map for that matter getting reused and charged to have that in BoS. CLOD does not have a patent on any map in the world, however I think the Greeks do. lol. (ARMA III ) ring a bell. The Greeks will put you in jail and then charge a ransomed for your release.

and to the guys at TEAM FUSION sorry for the rant not deserved, of course I appreciate all they do. I guess in my day and age when I was raised "sticks and stone's may break my bones but name calling will never hurt me". That's something maybe some of you all need to learn.

I have seen gaming begin from the days of Tandy my first computer game was Zelda or something it was on 5"1/2 inch disks if any one can remember those. I even wrote my own program for that computer. Easy back then, very difficult now.

Buzzsaw;

I hope to see the spit soon.....

W "Mastiff" Forbes

P.S. hope that's easy enough for some of y'all; meet me in the parking lot some day and I would buy ya a beer or 2...

Most of all enjoy the Sim no mater who makes it. and Remember each Sim is its own thing, none will ever have every-thing you want. (Falcon 4.0)

[Mattias]

and to the guys at TEAM FUSION sorry for the rant not deserved, of course I appreciate all they do. I guess in my day and age when I was raised "sticks and stone's may break my bones but name calling will never hurt me". That's something maybe some of you all need to learn.


I appreciate that Mastriff :salute:

Sticks and stones do fly around a lot in forums these days :D

Cheers/m

[Injerin]

Thx Dutch for the translate.
The thing is you ATAG people has been negative to BOS since you heard it would come. And your arrogant tone just make your agenda clearer.

I just cannot understand why it is so wrong getting another WW2 sim in this world.
Liking BOS does not mean disliking CLOD.

This critique you give BOS is ridiculous since it is a alpha version of the game, and not a finished product, it is pretty obvious that you never intended to give this game a chance.

Thats a broad remark don't you think? Anyway I bought BOS and I plan on giving it a shot. I have a simple rule and this goes for all games that I purchase "IF IT SUCKS, I'LL SHELF IT." I think this whole debate is pointless.

Oh almost forgot.... I don't give a shit what people play or don't play :) or like or dislike :)

[LuseKofte]

Well in my defense I did mean Dutch answer to me, not him or ATAG in general.

I like this forum and I like the discussions.

But some remarks here are arrogant. First of all I have all the sims, but not War thunder and I like what I see in BOS. I have because of work not yet tried it. But what you fine people do here is killing the reputation of a potential good sim.

And that was the very same that killed CLOD, and you guys are doing it.

I find the flightsim community in general a kind of retarded when it come to other game discussions. In all other topics we are talking about how to get more people interested , but in these kind of topics we try to prevent a interest in flight sim.

So you ATAG guys can make fun of a old guy as much as you like. I do not mind it. But do not get high all mighty moralist when clod is treated the same way

[ATAG_Colander]

I understand we all have opinions but as the old saying goes...


If you don't have anything good to say about something or someone, don't say anything.

[ATAG_Snapper]

When I think of Dutch, high and mighty moralist is the first thing that comes to mind. Hmm, well, maybe not. :goofy

I've not bought into BoS, but mainly because the theatre of operations, plane set, and business model is not my cup of tea. I do wish it well and hope it pulls in a lot of folks new to flight sims and/or the WT crowd looking for a new challenge. If they're hooked by BoS, then it stands to reason some will naturally look to Clod and DCS WW2 as well. I know many fellow Clod players -- including ATAG members -- feel the same.

And I agree it's not worth getting cranked up over BoS or any other flight sim...Clod included. At the end of the day, they're just video games. Now, beer and hockey: THOSE are worth getting all cranked up over.

:)

[Jack Morris (Lucky)]

Battle of Stalingrad is made by experienced game design individuals.

TF is made by "members of the community" who are "devoting their time"

If you look at who is more likely to screw up, it's probably TF, due to the fact that they (possibly) have less experience overall.

However, we are allowed to critique BOS as much as we want,

But when someone like Mastiff comes along and criticizes Team Fusion, which he has the right to do because, lets face it, their job is to try and recover a game that has been released, pissed on, set on fire and then abandoned in a dumpster, He gets chased off the atag forums with a pitch fork.

It just sickens me that no one is allowed to criticize team fusion. Yes, the graphics are marginally better, its still aliased. They have made the sounds fantastic, and the clouds and skies, ground textures etc. But thats pretty much it, and given the amount of time they have had, it's not a lot. All they have really done is screw up decent planes, making the game much more favorable for the blues. We still have no Anti-Aliasing, no AI planes made flyable, no effects fixes, no map extensions, edits to include new buildings or anything.

Until people are open to criticizing both sims equally, I don't think they have the right to discuss either...

~S~

Lucky

[ATAG_Lolsav]

It just sickens me that no one is allowed to criticize team fusion.

I couldnt let this one go with impunity. This is not true. Sorry Jack, it just aint.

As for taking some individuals opinions as a whole, thats a big mistake, isnt it? Ive posted on this thread and i was not bitter or attacked someone. Other ATAG members had the same conduct. Dont take a part for the whole, it just aint right.

[Mattias]

It just sickens me that no one is allowed to criticize team fusion. Yes, the graphics are marginally better, its still aliased. They have made the sounds fantastic, and the clouds and skies, ground textures etc. But thats pretty much it, and given the amount of time they have had, it's not a lot. All they have really done is screw up decent planes, making the game much more favorable for the blues. We still have no Anti-Aliasing, no AI planes made flyable, no effects fixes, no map extensions, edits to include new buildings or anything.

roflmao

Thank you Morris -that made my day :bravo:

[XE9O]

~S~
Nice 2nd post Mastiff, I don't get into a lot of post on the forums, but this one was most interesting.:salute:




71st_AH_XE90

[ChiefRedCloud]

Mastiff what happened to the 109? It was smoking a bunch. Then it wasn't and it was still trucking. Got any idea what that was besides Alpha?

[ATAG_Colander]

All they have really done is screw up decent planes, making the game much more favorable for the blues.

May I suggest you open a poll asking this very question? I would like to see is the community thinks the same. Who knows, maybe TF is screwing things up and should stop doing so and wasting everyone's time.

[Mastiff]

Mastiff what happened to the 109? It was smoking a bunch. Then it wasn't and it was still trucking. Got any idea what that was besides Alpha?

That's funny you should ask that; I was frapping a 109 v lag and I had turned off the fraps, when I just got another lag to spawn in and guess what; I cant replicate the wing damage. I hit it damaging the Lagg right wing, as it received some damage enough that when he went to turn or dive not sure which, it ripped right off and came at me! the ripping effect was awesome it was like the fabric was on it and ripped back and then came off... Man I wish I had caught that on video. I spent another hour trying to do it again. gave up. as far as the 109 probably ran out of water and oil cant tell ya, was it one of my vids?

[Injerin]

when i think of dutch, high and mighty moralist is the first thing that comes to mind. Hmm, well, maybe not. :goofy

i've not bought into bos, but mainly because the theatre of operations, plane set, and business model is not my cup of tea. I do wish it well and hope it pulls in a lot of folks new to flight sims and/or the wt crowd looking for a new challenge. If they're hooked by bos, then it stands to reason some will naturally look to clod and dcs ww2 as well. I know many fellow clod players -- including atag members -- feel the same.

And i agree it's not worth getting cranked up over bos or any other flight sim...clod included. At the end of the day, they're just video games. Now, beer and hockey: Those are worth getting all cranked up over.

:)

Right on bro! Go Redwings! :p

[Jack Morris (Lucky)]

May I suggest you open a poll asking this very question? I would like to see is the community thinks the same. Who knows, maybe TF is screwing things up and should stop doing so and wasting everyone's time.

I will do, you may be surprised. You don't have to be childish about it saying that "TF is wasting eveyones time" blah blah blah.

You can put gas in a 109 and it flies as if it's empty. A 109 can lose all of it's energy, and still rocket away from a spit in a climb. We do, certainly have Team Fusion to thank for that.

[ATAG_Lolsav]

You can put gas in a 109 and it flies as if it's empty. A 109 can lose all of it's energy, and still rocket away from a spit in a climb.

Untrue. And i can prove it to you. Get a 25 gas or even a 50 gas 109 and a full tank one and you will see it will not keep the pace.

Im ready to test when you are.

[LuseKofte]

How did this turn into a CLOD versus BOS. Why does it has to be this way.

I know I be flying in CLOD as long as there are people in the servers. It is by far the best Combatsim to date. I am just hoping BOS beats it. It might not but there are nothing wrong hoping for that. It is called evolution.

All this bitching about a new development witch we all should benefit from.

TF is doing a great job, and they do it for free. I would not played CLOD if it was not for them. Pay some respect to their efford that only benefit the community.
Everyone got a choose in that regard, you can choose for some stupid reason not to install their improvements.

[ATAG_Colander]

I will do, you may be surprised. You don't have to be childish about it saying that "TF is wasting eveyones time" blah blah blah.

You are right, childish would be wasting my time if the community thinks TF is, and quote again "screw up decent planes, making the game much more favorable for the blues."

[ATAG_Snapper]

Clearly, Jack, you have not been around since the early days of Cliffs of Dover. If you had, you would not be making the statements you have.

There is a huge difference between a commercial interest receiving customers' money for an advertised product and a group of unpaid volunteers who generously sacrifice their time for the embetterment of a game for the enjoyment of folks like you and I. Clearly that difference is lost on you, based on your self-serving little tirade. There are ways to voice concerns on any matter involving Team Fusion's patches, but your cheap shots belittling their notable achievements thus far ain't one of 'em.

I've a bellyful of this thread. It's closed.