Br.20 flying by itself online

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Hey guys,

I was trying the Br.20 out. Why does it start flying by itself as soon as I jump to the bombardier's position (just because it's the first position it switches to)? My plane started itself all by itself, taxied to the runway and I could only regain control after going to the top gunner and hitting alt f2. Doing that from the bombardier didn't work. All this just now online.

The problem is, even with it all trimmed, no autopilot engaged, if I switch to the bombsight, the "autopilot" decides to put my plane into a dive and "go back to base" apparently.

Any tips?

By the way, where is the autopilot indicator for course setting? My ghost pilot even set the compass and gyro correctly... great guy!

[Torric270]

Hey guys,

I was trying the Br.20 out. Why does it start flying by itself as soon as I jump to the bombardier's position (just because it's the first position it switches to)? My plane started itself all by itself, taxied to the runway and I could only regain control after going to the top gunner and hitting alt f2. Doing that from the bombardier didn't work. All this just now online.

The problem is, even with it all trimmed, no autopilot engaged, if I switch to the bombsight, the "autopilot" decides to put my plane into a dive and "go back to base" apparently.

Any tips?

By the way, where is the autopilot indicator for course setting? My ghost pilot even set the compass and gyro correctly... great guy!

I believe this was brought up in the BR20 oh lordy thread so TF is aware of it. I have no issues but i stay in the cockpit until after takeoff so i can only assume that this prevents it from happening, ill test it out but i havent ever had a problem jumping into the bombardiers station doing this.

AP was added to blenny and br to help with level bombing so there is not a AP course gauge in either of them.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Ok, thanks again, Torric. Good to know it's a bug and it's being corrected. And not something I was missing :)

Maybe it happened like that because I jumped to the bombardier first, before even starting the engine. I'll try next time to fly it normally and just skip to the bombardier later on.

Ah, that's why the course settings don't show anywhere. What is the slave compass, though? Radio direction finding?

[Torric270]

Ok, thanks again, Torric. Good to know it's a bug and it's being corrected. And not something I was missing :)

Maybe it happened like that because I jumped to the bombardier first, before even starting the engine. I'll try next time to fly it normally and just skip to the bombardier later on.

Ah, that's why the course settings don't show anywhere. What is the slave compass, though? Radio direction finding?


From BR AP thread:

The gyro and the slaved compass are linked with the start compressor function. When you start the plane, hit the start compressor button and the plane will start to shake.

The slaved compass will spool up and start to read correctly, then set your directional gyro to the magnectic compass and it should stay close to the course but you will have to update this throughout the flight.

The function of the slaved compass in RL is that it would be a gyroscopically stabilized compass that would read correctly in turns etc. while a magnectic compass will only read true when you are flying straight and level for a while. Having said that I don't believe the slave compass in the BR always reads true even after it is spooled up.

* Blenheim and BR.20 AP Guide:

Key bindings needed: course autopilot next mode; course autopilot adjust course left and adjust course right; directional gyro increase and decrease; [(BR.20) start motor compressor; stop motor compressor]

Simple mode: After takeoff, trim your plane on desired course for your climb. Hit autopilot next mode, you will get a read out that says mode: course. Your plane will start to turn, just hit your adjust course left/right keys until the plane is flying on the course you want. The AP default course is N so the farther away from N that you are the more turning that will initially be needed. This is mode 1 (course) you can climb, dive, fly level using elevator trim as it only controls the rudder. BR.20; for a more precise AP, start motor compressor to spool up the directional gyro (will shake the plane); known bug.

For mode 22 (level flight, level bombing) hit the autopilot next key and it will say mode 22 (). Now the autopilot will control rudder, elevator, and ailerons. The plane will most likely dive for a bit to help it level out so pick an altitude at least 300-500 meters above what altitude you want. The Blennie's nose will bounce up and down (known bug)

For both of these modes just use your course autopilot left/right keys to turn the plane. You can also use the directional gyro keys for smaller movements.

BR.20: Without the motor compressor on, the plane will drift more than other planes so it will need constant adustment.

For total correct navigation: BR.20: During startup turn on the motor compressor. Both: Turn the dirctional gyro to match the magnetic compass (You will have to continually match the gyro to the compass during flight)

Take off and pick your course, match gyro to magnetic compass, then hit autopilot next mode, then repeat the above steps.

For more info, check out the ju-88 flight manual (Autopilot) on wiki, it will all work the same except for not having a gauge for the autopilot course.

[Torric270]

JHat, I cannot replicate this. Could you replicate it noting everything, fuel/bomb load out and what keys you use to move positions and what the key binding is (i.e. c = next manned position). Is this key mapped under any other of the control functions (turret, camera, etc.) Did it happen as soon as you jumped into the bombardier position engs off or was there delay.

Thanks

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Hey Torric, thanks for looking up the thread. I looked for it real quick and couldn't find. I'll look further (search function!).

I'll try to replicate this tonight. What I can say now is, the map was the winter one with the Lewes Train Station target. Both times I spawned in It happened. Bomb load was 12xGP100, with high alt fuses (the only ones avaliable). I was carrying 40% fuel IIRC.

I jumped in the plane for the first sortie and wanted to explore the bombardier. I hit c (move to next position; I have shift c for previous positions; c isn't mapped for anything else) and ctrl f1 to lean into gunsight (bombsight) and started adjusting height and speed (ctrl numpads 1&7 and 3&9; I presed ctrl 2 & 8 too). All of a sudden came the message Electropirometro off and my engines started going on. I don't remeber exactly what I did but I regained control after going back to the cockpit. I always go back to the cockpit with alt f2.
When I took over I opened rads and dropped flaps tha took off.

I don't recall how the sortie ended. When I was about to bomb I hit c agai to go for the bombardier and the electropirometro off message came up, revs went crazy and the plane dove into the sea, kinda like doing a split-s without going on it's back. I went back to the pilot and didn't get control back. I then cycled to the upper gunner with c and hit alt f2. Than I regained cintrol I carried on.

In the second sortie it was kind of like the same thing. I jumped to the bombardier before starting the engines. I am thinking it could be related to that.

I have AI take-over mapped to ctrl a and cycle autopilot mode to a. Both times these keys didn't do anything other than engaging course and then mode22. All from the pilot.

Like I said, I'll try to replicate it with some sort of systematic and report back.

[Torric270]

Hey Torric, thanks for looking up the thread. I looked for it real quick and couldn't find. I'll look further (search function!).

I'll try to replicate this tonight. What I can say now is, the map was the winter one with the Lewes Train Station target. Both times I spawned in It happened. Bomb load was 12xGP100, with high alt fuses (the only ones avaliable). I was carrying 40% fuel IIRC.

I jumped in the plane for the first sortie and wanted to explore the bombardier. I hit c (move to next position; I have shift c for previous positions; c isn't mapped for anything else) and ctrl f1 to lean into gunsight (bombsight) and started adjusting height and speed (ctrl numpads 1&7 and 3&9; I presed ctrl 2 & 8 too). All of a sudden came the message Electropirometro off and my engines started going on. I don't remeber exactly what I did but I regained control after going back to the cockpit. I always go back to the cockpit with alt f2.
When I took over I opened rads and dropped flaps tha took off.

I don't recall how the sortie ended. When I was about to bomb I hit c agai to go for the bombardier and the electropirometro off message came up, revs went crazy and the plane dove into the sea, kinda like doing a split-s without going on it's back. I went back to the pilot and didn't get control back. I then cycled to the upper gunner with c and hit alt f2. Than I regained cintrol I carried on.

In the second sortie it was kind of like the same thing. I jumped to the bombardier before starting the engines. I am thinking it could be related to that.

I have AI take-over mapped to ctrl a and cycle autopilot mode to a. Both times these keys didn't do anything other than engaging course and then mode22. All from the pilot.

Like I said, I'll try to replicate it with some sort of systematic and report back.

Thanks for all that. I still could not duplicate, but you are at least the 2nd person that has this problem. If it does it to you again, you could use a Keller suggestion which is to use the alt keys to move to each position, (alt 1-6) alt 2 (not f2) for bombardier, etc. You should still be able to alt F2 back to pilot to make sure gunners are manned. Seems to be some kind a conflict with certain systems, I'll make sure it is on the list.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Tried again. No joy. Started the engine myself and as soon as I moved into the bombardier position it started again. I noticed it only happens in the following stations: top gunner, bombardier a d bottom gunner. Nose gunner and radio operator don't sem to affect it.

The plane collapsed onto the landing gears after running by itself, not taking off, though, and bounced off the ground some 20 m in the air, then crashed and exploded. It was so slow it was as if I was in a balloon.staying up there I mean. Then it started dropping and went faster.

Again, 40% fuel, 12xGP100 fully weathered. Autopilot doesn't affect it. And I noticed yesterday there was no copilot next to me. Now there is. This time it's the Homeplate map.

Alt 2 4 or 6 didn't cause any problems. I could move to the position and still have control. As son as I hit c from the cockpit it went on its own again.

There was a message showing auto prop pitch off this time. The Br20 doesn't have auto pitch afaik.

I found something now too. It seems whenever I hit c it turns this auto-mode on. So if I go from pilot t bombardier, back with shift c and than to bombardier again it toggles the auto-mode back tol off and I regain control fro the bombardier position. C is causing it. Just double checked, c is not binded for anything else.

Trying another key for changing position doesn't affect it. The c key is definetly causing it, even unassigned.

One more thing, when I hit c and again (turns auto-mode off and I regain control) it shows Prop Pitch Automation: off and twice Telepirometro elletrico: off.

Blennie IV and Ju 88 work fine.

More findings: offline it acts the same way. I don't get the messages but ai takes over when hitting c once and leaves it for me when pressing once more. I tried with german markings, italian markings, useoldhumans yes and no. Same results.

New findings: in my confuser.ini there was an entry for c=pilot_switch and an entry for c=nextCabin (which is what you get in the menu). The first entry is not visible ingame. I changed it to g and changing position didn't cause any oddities anymore, because c wasn't bound to this pilot_switch command. Pressing g though, at whatever position (external view, other planes etc) caused the ai to take over.

It looks like we found it...

[Torric270]

Tried again. No joy. Started the engine myself and as soon as I moved into the bombardier position it started again. I noticed it only happens in the following stations: top gunner, bombardier a d bottom gunner. Nose gunner and radio operator don't sem to affect it.

The plane collapsed onto the landing gears after running by itself, not taking off, though, and bounced off the ground some 20 m in the air, then crashed and exploded. It was so slow it was as if I was in a balloon.staying up there I mean. Then it started dropping and went faster.

Again, 40% fuel, 12xGP100 fully weathered. Autopilot doesn't affect it. And I noticed yesterday there was no copilot next to me. Now there is. This time it's the Homeplate map.

Alt 2 4 or 6 didn't cause any problems. I could move to the position and still have control. As son as I hit c from the cockpit it went on its own again.

There was a message showing auto prop pitch off this time. The Br20 doesn't have auto pitch afaik.

I found something now too. It seems whenever I hit c it turns this auto-mode on. So if I go from pilot t bombardier, back with shift c and than to bombardier again it toggles the auto-mode back tol off and I regain control fro the bombardier position. C is causing it. Just double checked, c is not binded for anything else.

Trying another key for changing position doesn't affect it. The c key is definetly causing it, even unassigned.

One more thing, when I hit c and again (turns auto-mode off and I regain control) it shows Prop Pitch Automation: off and twice Telepirometro elletrico: off.

Blennie IV and Ju 88 work fine.

More findings: offline it acts the same way. I don't get the messages but ai takes over when hitting c once and leaves it for me when pressing once more. I tried with german markings, italian markings, useoldhumans yes and no. Same results.

New findings: in my confuser.ini there was an entry for c=pilot_switch and an entry for c=nextCabin (which is what you get in the menu). The first entry is not visible ingame. I changed it to g and changing position didn't cause any oddities anymore, because c wasn't bound to this pilot_switch command. Pressing g though, at whatever position (external view, other planes etc) caused the ai to take over.

It looks like we found it...

Thanks for narrowing it down to the C key, I'll make sure this gets passed on.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

No problem, Torric. Glad I could help.

It is this command pilot_switch which is causing it. It just happened to be c for whatever reason (didn't test binding the nextcabin command ingame to see if pilot_switch changed too). I hav no idead what this pilot_switch command is supposed to do, though.

[Torric270]

No problem, Torric. Glad I could help.

It is this command pilot_switch which is causing it. It just happened to be c for whatever reason (didn't test binding the nextcabin command ingame to see if pilot_switch changed too). I hav no idead what this pilot_switch command is supposed to do, though.

Excellent, looks like u solved it! What language version do u have, as I don't have that command.

[1lokos]

in my confuser.ini there was an entry for c=pilot_switch and an entry for c=nextCabin (

Curiously my confUser.ini dont have this "pilot_switch" entry.

Probable you are using one of the first version of the game (In this case thanks STEAM Cloud :D).
I remember that in first release was possible take control of Tiger Moth in front cockpit - another CloD "good" idea that dont work well. :)

Sokol1

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

Well, it makes sense. Than my instructor takes over, as I am the student pilot. Apparently this command hasn't been disabled in the Br.20.

I'll try deleting this entry and see if it all goes back to normal. Ie no ai takeover with the last key bound.

Hadn't seen your post, Torric.
I bought the game off of steam as soon as it was released in Europe I guess, or within a couple of months even maybe. I have the western version, no fiddling with maddox.dll.

[kampf]

...
When you start the plane, hit the start compressor button and the plane will start to shake.
...
start motor compressor to spool up the directional gyro (will shake the plane); known bug.


Will this "shaking" bug taken care of in next patch?



For both of these modes just use your course autopilot left/right keys to turn the plane.


Since Course Setter Heading is merely a graphical element, not linked to Autopilot logic (I wonder if in RL it was so useless:stunned:),
a visual feedback of the current AP heading when changing left/right course would be helpful.
i.e.
AUTOPILOT COURSE LEFT (45°)
AUTOPILOT COURSE LEFT (40°)
etc. etc.

Thanks
Kampf
:salute:

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Will this "shaking" bug taken care of in next patch?

Thanks to Torric's work, I believe we will be able to avoid it.

We have changed the power systems so the pneumatic pressure is generated from the engines instead of the small pump.

[kampf]

Thanks to Torric's work, I believe we will be able to avoid it.

We have changed the power systems so the pneumatic pressure is generated from the engines instead of the small pump.

Great! :thumbsup: