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View Full Version : Lets have some unity for ALL who love to "Fly" planes on a pc !



jaydee
Dec-10-2013, 04:14
Hi all ! First off I must disclose that (because of moving home) I only have about 3-4 hours flying BOS,so I am no expert !....I have 800 hrs flyin COD(according to steam) and still no expert !
For guys who don't have BOS ,here is my 3 hours opinion ! : Cockpit : Dull and lacking vibrance compared to COD !....."The Flying" World : Covered with snow and the towns all are duplicated in the landscape(making navigation for a loner difficult) !...
Now for the juicy bit :... FM's :Try landing that La3 in crosswinds...(Without breaking it )..Fun ...!!!..Ive had 799 hours in a Spit and 1hr in a 109 in COD!...So when I had no internet,I decided to set steam up in "Offline" mode,abandon my Spit and jump into this "strange"(for me) "energy" Fighter,The 109E4n !....With some great advice from people on ATAG(convergences,loadouts,etc),Thank you !!!
I was lovin the "screaming" of the 109 Engine,using the PP to keep my 109 in its "sweet spot" !......
Then I flew the 109 in BOS !....First impressions :Ground handling..too stable and easy to take off !....(at the minute,trim is not implemented in BOS yet)so whatever plane you are flying,you are goin to be "overcompensatin" with your joystick !..
I like BOS and believe it is the best "Commercial" venture for us at the minute...I will put some money towards it!
Having said all that,I try to be optismistic about all in my life,and contribute in Forums where I can !
I am very disappointed (and saddened) to see "Members" of a voluntary Community (who have contributed so much)to COD,nit pick and have a go at each other).

What upsets most about all of this,Is , now,there are people(IMHO) on ATAG that want BOS to FAIL !...and will knock and denegrade at every opportunity.(lets call a a spade a spade here lads,I don't know anyone from a bar of soap,but,I have gathered their is some Bitterness from SYN days)!
In my mind,there is no "THEM' and "US" !!
I want to fly planes and I think,coz we are such small numbers,we should stick together ,support anyone who is crazy enough to Dev a flight sim for a bunch (like us)
Just a reminder for anyone who wasn't around when COD was released !...It was a Fuckin Disaster ! Memory leaks,Launchers,not been able to join ATAG,No win XP,No SLI/crossfire,FM debates,crap AI,virtually no offline player content !
Now thanks to TF and the likes of "Heinkill" ,we hav a great WW2 sim ! Thank you ~S~
Lets give BOS a chance !...
Ive plenty of room on my hardrive for Sims ! ~S~
BTW rememeber the "Patch" that was going to fix everything !...The Buisness Models,The Fms,the "investors"... and all the expert opinions !..The Patch was coming in "2 Weeks" !...Never came ! until TF !....
No doubt in my mind,Cod is the best BOB WW2 sim at the moment ! ..Its had 3 years of Community support!..
I am going to give BOS the same chance with same optimism ! ~S~

Tycoon
Dec-10-2013, 05:39
I agree! Combat flight sims are so few and far between we should be happy when anyone is making a new one.
Even if it isn't what everyone wants that's no reason to bash it to pieces, more or less it is still a
SIM, that's what its all about(and i think in all honesty a very good one).
I play ROF,COD,BOS, and others and in their own way they are all very good!
And these sims support each other! I hadn't played flight sims in a while when i saw some videos of ROF, it really captured me and got me interested,and then eventually led me to COD and others.
So the release of BOS will be good for all cfsimmers, there is even a post on the BOS forum with gold bar BOS guys writing in how good COD is now!
So lets be cool and enjoy the diversity of all our great sims, just like ROF led me also to COD,so will BOS lead many people there also.

StormBat
Dec-10-2013, 11:26
I have to admit I made up my own mind about BOS being crap from reading other peoples posts on it without even playing it. Some of them I know and trust so I took their word for it. That's wrong I know and I will wait to see what the final product looks like.(after a couple of months or so of it's release) My only concerns are that your going to have to pay through the nose to get what ever plane sets you want to fly along with better ammo and such. In other words if you want the advantage then you'll be spending real money for upgrades to your planes. (I could be wrong on that too) The other thing, and this is my own personal fear that people will leave CLOD for BOS and we will lose a great sim for another that may or may not be as good, along with TF who might decide it's futile to work on something that hardly anyone is playing. Again that's just my personal fear and I hope I am completely wrong about that. That's why I think most people are bashing BOS because they fear losing CLOD. I just hope to be playing this sim(CLOD) for many years to come along with all the awesome people ATAG or otherwise who have joined us throughout the days, weeks months and years. Love, peace and respect to all of you!

Black
Dec-10-2013, 11:27
I have played CloD for a long time and got used to its high standard when it comes to historical accuracy and all the small details! I had high hopes for BoS in the beginning, the more I see of it the more disappointed I am! I can not honestly say that I wish BoS a great success if in my eyes it is only a step backwards from what we have seen in CloD and definitely not a worthy sequel. The negative comments are only the result of BoS not living up to the expecations for now!

If it turns out to be a great sim then I will support it! I doubt it will be so you will not hear any praising words from me. ClOD always had the potential to become what it is now, I doubt that BoS can turn into such a diamond aswell for several reasons!

VMF214_Jupp
Dec-10-2013, 12:28
"Simmers be like..." lately.
http://s27.postimg.org/9582wpsyr/Blackjack_and_Hookers.jpg

When I started flight simulations online it was the law of the sea, that you helped your fellow pilots in whatever may be troubling them. Much of that still exits today, I believe, because of that.

There were still a handful of actual WW2 aviators who regularly flew and talked with us online via "Roger Wilco", the program we used pre-Teamspeak. Those talks to me are priceless memories.

I have observed mostly discontent and nitpickering over our usual forums, and very little positive input from anyone lately. The truth is that every flight sim fails in some regard or another obviously.

The scope of pleasing firstly the investors, then the single players, and multiplayers, and novices, and experten, and TM's, and FM's and DM's, history, content, sound, graphics, distribution, etc. etc. etc.

Is absolutely staggering. And I agree with the OP on this. Please raise your standards of tolerance and patience my friends. The rest of you are just pissing in the wind. So I say...

"Never in the course of flight simulator history, has so much, been given to so many, and appreciated, by so few". Which is a very sad statement to make.

& Merry Christmas from America ya sods! :wings:

MadTommy
Dec-11-2013, 06:22
With luck Team Fusion will continue improving and keeping CloD great, BoS will be a fun simulation with a large community and DCS WWII will be a true study sim.

They don't have to be all be on the same level in every respect, each will likely be better at certain areas. Each will have its short comings...there are elements I'm critical on in all 3 but I look forward to fly all 3 next year. (if i ever have any time).

There is unfortunately some inherit dislike for BoS/777 in this community.. I can understand that.. their community forums get right up my nose too and puts me off supporting it. But that will only be to my own disadvantage.

VMF214_Jupp
Dec-12-2013, 03:25
* Love the Princess from Battle of the Planets avatar Tommy that show was light-years ahead of it's time.

Cybermat47
Dec-12-2013, 04:08
Noooooo, I hate all the competing games and I want them to fail because I want them to and I'm more important than Jesus and you're all poo-poo heads, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!

On a serious note though, I hope all these games succeed. As far as I know, there's no rule saying you can't buy from competing companies. In one day I'll play games from 777, Gaijin, Bungie, 343 Indsutries, Ubisoft and Valve.

1lokos
Dec-12-2013, 11:55
Then I flew the 109 in BOS !....First impressions :Ground handling..too stable and easy to take off !....(at the minute,trim is not implemented in BOS yet)

Jaydee,

Bf 109F in Bo$ have all trim that they should, is the called "stabilizer adjust" (correctly) on GUI. :thumbsup:

Sokol1

MadTommy
Dec-12-2013, 12:05
* Love the Princess from Battle of the Planets avatar Tommy that show was light-years ahead of it's time.

:)

My childhood fancy... loved that show when it was 1st out. Good to see another fan!

LuseKofte
Dec-12-2013, 20:27
I like Clod. But it is about bob and for me flying all sims from the beginning. It kind of is not enough I do not got the patience flying two bombersorties often vulched on first attempt. To me a simpler enginemanagement is a good thing together with clod. For the map it is only a placeholder until Stalingrad map is finnished. The FM is just too early to deem. I just see a lot of people complain about unfair judgement on Clod and the very same people doing the same to BOS.
Why? Lets wait and see when the product is finnished. Either way I will fly it even if the selfclaimed aces here call me warthunder fanboy dearing to say I want to give it a chance. Arrogance I call it

jaydee
Dec-13-2013, 05:39
Jaydee,

Bf 109F in Bo$ have all trim that they should, is the called "stabilizer adjust" (correctly) on GUI. :thumbsup:

Sokol1
Sry 1lokos,I meant 109 easy ground handling,Lagg ,not so ,but fun !...I thought no elevator trim in BOS yet ? ~s~

Headshot
Dec-13-2013, 07:16
It always makes me sad and frustrated when I hear people don't try some thing new for them selfs. Just try it and make up your own mind. If more people did that with COD we could have had a larger community than we do now. Some are just coming to the party and just might have missed the best part it.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Dec-13-2013, 07:48
It always makes me sad and frustrated when I hear people don't try some thing new for them selfs. .

If trying something new was free, maybe you'd have a point.
Software/ games are not yet subject (at least in the EU) to returns law in the same way as other products and service are.



Either way I will fly it even if the selfclaimed aces here call me warthunder fanboy dearing to say I want to give it a chance. Arrogance I call it

Who's calling you a warthunder fanboy?
And who here is claiming to be an ace?

LuseKofte
Dec-14-2013, 14:03
Sorry just me being frustrated. But it was said in a earlyer closed topic. Calling out selfclaimed aces was totally out of order.
But being as few as we are we cant continue this campaign of ruin other flightsims. We need more people in all of them. I love clod. But I really hope this one is usable so I can have some more fun

ATAG_Striker
Dec-14-2013, 17:16
Jaydee everyone one has there opinion. now that 1c and 777 working with bos alot of us and not alot of us want to see this fail. myself bought this im amazed of bos but with there marketing style i think it a waste ive bought bos im amazed of of the work but come on $95 early access with just few missions and 109 and laGG waste of money i think . also the development is at 32% it a waste but i will be surprised what they will do with it. got to remember dcs also bringing out a big ww2 sim as well so you might get mixed thoughts.


:salute:

Dutch
Dec-16-2013, 20:41
I'd love to have some unity with everyone who either produces or flies computer combat flight simulators.

But there is a simple truth to be considered. It is this;

I am sick to death of waiting. Waiting for new sims, waiting for patches, waiting for other new sims, waiting for their patches, waiting for Maddox Games, Waiting for news, waiting for updates, waiting for what will happen to the hobby next, oh my God it's that Jason bloke, waiting for mods, waiting for Ilya, waiting, waiting.

I sometimes regret ever having left the old IL2 Sturmovik behind. If I hadn't seen the next generation, I wouldn't feel so bad, I'd be like a pig in muck. But I did see it, so now I'm waiting. Just like I have been since 2006 when I got the bonus DVD with 1946. And here we are, nearly eight years later, waiting....................

So I signed up for 'Star Citizen'. Guess what we all do there? You guessed it, we wait.

Maybe I should just buy a boat. At least the scenery will be nice.

ATAG_JTDawg
Dec-16-2013, 20:45
I'd love to have some unity with everyone who either produces or flies computer combat flight simulators.

But there is a simple truth to be considered. It is this;

I am sick to death of waiting. Waiting for new sims, waiting for patches, waiting for other new sims, waiting for their patches, waiting for Maddox Games, Waiting for news, waiting for updates, waiting for what will happen to the hobby next, oh my God it's that Jason bloke, waiting for mods, waiting for Ilya, waiting, waiting.

I sometimes regret ever having left the old IL2 Sturmovik behind. If I hadn't seen the next generation, I wouldn't feel so bad, I'd be like a pig in muck. But I did see it, so now I'm waiting. Just like I have been since 2006 when I got the bonus DVD with 1946. And here we are, nearly eight years later, waiting....................

So I signed up for 'Star Citizen'. Guess what we all do there? You guessed it, we wait.

Maybe I should just buy a boat. At least the scenery will be nice.

SO true +1

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-17-2013, 02:37
Well, there's DCS WW2 with Spits and Jugs and Butcher Birds and......well.....we just have to....wait.....:ind:



:-P

Skoshi_Tiger
Dec-22-2013, 19:48
Maybe I should just buy a boat. At least the scenery will be nice.

Sorry Dutch,

The waiting doesn't stop with flight sims.

I've got a boat and all the time I'm waiting to use it.

Waiting for the weekend when the kids aren't playing sport
and it's not too cold
and not too hot
and the sea breeze isn't going to come into early
and the swell not going to be too big
and the fish are in
and the white pointer aren't hanging around!

But just like flight sims, very rarely when all the planets align and it all comes together it can be just magic!

ATTACH=CONFIG]6344[/ATTACH]

Cheers![

LuseKofte
Dec-22-2013, 20:53
Hmm I signed up too , that Star Citizen thing boy did I feel stupid. I never read the instruction never. So I figured a bad pilot like me need a good ride so I bought the most expensive ship of them all.
For what? I finally got into the pit and what did I see in there a Saitek x 52 Joystick and throttle and no way to connect my flight equipment to it. I sat in there and it suddenly hit me while I waited and tap my fingers. I should have read the instruction.
What the hell did I sign into? Crap
Yes we wait, because the developers know we are few and we know we aint got shit to choose from. We will know the day we die if it was worth the wait

Mastiff
Dec-23-2013, 19:57
you know I was thinking, (I know, nooo not again Mastiff!) :) Some of y'all are like model builders.

We want the most fun and most detailed Sim we can get our hands on right. So we have a variety of Flight Sim that are going to be released this 2014,

DCS World with Edge and sophisticated difficulty.

Cliffs of Dover with its medium difficulty but HD graphics and brilliant Special effects. Standard flight modeling, with the Team Fusion caring on the details of this Sim in v5.0. Just like Team Diadalos is with IL2 1946.

What I like to call semi-difficulty Rise of Flight, and soon to be IL2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad. Slip stream physics and Advanced Flight modeling.

FSX is also up there as far as operation push button and UI difficulty but flight physics rails. also the new 3D programing and updating going on with TacPac.

now here is were flight Simming gets a little muddled, War of Thunder, and soon world of planes. I cant believe my eyes when I saw Sims Flight Sim of the year was awarded to

War of Thunder I was like, wtf? So this is what brought me to this missive. 12 and 13 year olds that have never built a model! your like say "WTF!"

This is the problem we are facing we need more moms and dads out there to stop buying these simple games and give them something to build and to appreciate the patient's it take to build a

model. Just maybe we will get a new generation of flight Sim enthusiast out of it. In the near future there won't be pilots any longer, only automaton drones.


we all have an opinion on what a flight sim is or should be. me it's in between, I like advanced Flight models, and physics, the engine part I don't want to have to worry about keeping my plane in the

air unless its been damaged. So yea Rise of Flight and easy engine management is what I like.

and what's up with this web page not letting me spell check?!

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-23-2013, 20:23
Your spelling iss fine.

Games like War Thunder bring instant gratification in action coupled with terrific eye and ear candy. Nothing wrong with that, as the numbers clearly show. Corgi sells a ton of the ready-built cast medal model airplanes -- I have a few myself and I think they're great. But they're a far cry from the hours needed to assemble and paint the plastic models I built myself as a kid, or the balsa wood & tissue models my Dad's generation built.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I haven't been following the relevant forums, but I wonder what the take is in the A2A forums when making the inevitable comparison of their Wings of Power 3 P51D Mustang to DCS' version in terms of accuracy and detail.

Dutch
Dec-23-2013, 21:01
The waiting doesn't stop with flight sims. Cheers![

Thanks for that Skoshi mate. Just as the horrendous winter storms thrash the UK, you post an idyllic picture of summer. Thanks mate. That makes me feel better. :grrr:


I sat in there and it suddenly hit me while I waited and tap my fingers. I should have read the instruction. What the hell did I sign into?

Yep. I know that feeling. :doh:


Some of y'all are like model builders.

We're probably all model builders. Once upon a time that's all we had. But Airfix seem to be making a comeback........ Liked your post Mastiff mate. :thumbsup:


Corgi sells a ton of the ready-built cast medal model airplanes -- I have a few myself and I think they're great. But they're a far cry from the hours needed to assemble and paint the plastic models I built myself as a kid, or the balsa wood & tissue models my Dad's generation built.

Your Dad's generation? Haha, I built loads of those things, with balsa, tissue and dope in the old style. When the garden shed got too cold, I went back to the scale models in plastic, assembled in my bedroom.

Nice to know that all you chaps have similar roots. :thumbsup:

:)

Tvrdi
Dec-24-2013, 04:31
you know I was thinking, (I know, nooo not again Mastiff!) :) Some of y'all are like model builders.

We want the most fun and most detailed Sim we can get our hands on right. So we have a variety of Flight Sim that are going to be released this 2014,

DCS World with Edge and sophisticated difficulty.

Cliffs of Dover with its medium difficulty but HD graphics and brilliant Special effects. Standard flight modeling, with the Team Fusion caring on the details of this Sim in v5.0. Just like Team Diadalos is with IL2 1946.

What I like to call semi-difficulty Rise of Flight, and soon to be IL2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad. Slip stream physics and Advanced Flight modeling.

FSX is also up there as far as operation push button and UI difficulty but flight physics rails. also the new 3D programing and updating going on with TacPac.

now here is were flight Simming gets a little muddled, War of Thunder, and soon world of planes. I cant believe my eyes when I saw Sims Flight Sim of the year was awarded to

War of Thunder I was like, wtf? So this is what brought me to this missive. 12 and 13 year olds that have never built a model! your like say "WTF!"

This is the problem we are facing we need more moms and dads out there to stop buying these simple games and give them something to build and to appreciate the patient's it take to build a

model. Just maybe we will get a new generation of flight Sim enthusiast out of it. In the near future there won't be pilots any longer, only automaton drones.


we all have an opinion on what a flight sim is or should be. me it's in between, I like advanced Flight models, and physics, the engine part I don't want to have to worry about keeping my plane in the

air unless its been damaged. So yea Rise of Flight and easy engine management is what I like.

and what's up with this web page not letting me spell check?!

Agree with you Mastiff with almost everything you said...but you know that the FM of current planes in BOS are 90% done (Zak's own words) and that you can turn all day long in a 109 without a single rudder touch....Well, I think we cant call it an advanced FM.

Ofcourse, in ideal world we would have CLOD cockpits and MP ability, best of the FMs of DCS (air handlaing), CLOD (drag, Gs etc) and BOS (ground handling, stalls), future visual effects of BOS and a complexity (engine management etc.) of DCS.
But we wont. And we will always have die hard fan camps on all sides arguing to death no matter whats true or false.

gavagai
Dec-26-2013, 08:46
It's like Mastiff said, "semi-difficulty," as if these WW2 birds are too complicated to operate according to real procedures. 777 will sacrifice realism to appeal to a wider audience, for things they believe just look cool (it's all subjective, remember?). I can't wait until more of you encounter the ambient flak.

Hood
Dec-26-2013, 10:24
Why have unity when a thread about it gets idiotic posts? For example the whinge about $95 for 2 planes and a few missions duh. Actually it's $95 for the full game, 10 or so planes plus two special ones and full on campaigns, plus alpha and beta access.

And the comparisons with clod just don't work. In clod the planes fly like they're on rails but you still get clod fanboys saying it's fm is more advanced. Sure the cockpits look nicer and of course it's a finished game so everything is in place.

Personally I quite like the different opinions if only because some posts make me laugh.

Bah humbug

Hood

ps I'm looking forward to BoS then hopefully TF5 then maybe DCS:WWII if it isn't cocked up. I've supported them all financially but that hasn't closed my eyes to the faults in each.

ATAG_Colander
Dec-26-2013, 11:12
you forgot the /beginrant tag :)

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-26-2013, 11:41
Just a reminder to all here: we all are guests of this forum and are to treat this forum and fellow members with respect at all times. Please post accordingly. Posting in an inflammatory or derisive manner towards fellow forum members is unacceptable here. We have new forum members who are clearly unaware of this, and longtime members who are aware. Please adjust your wording in further posts made.

Thanks to all,

Snapper

SoW Reddog
Dec-26-2013, 14:35
fleX, that sounds like bunny hopping in FPS, a game exploit. All just a bit sad really.

Skoshi_Tiger
Dec-26-2013, 17:32
In clod the planes fly like they're on rails but you still get clod fanboys saying it's fm is more advanced.


You know if you substitute 'BoS' for 'Clod' in that sentence I would agree with you 100% Hood. I guess we will get a lot more unity when people start realizing that their subjective opinions are not universal facts.

Dutch
Dec-26-2013, 17:45
In clod the planes fly like they're on rails....

Maybe that's because of the simple fact that the trim controls actually function in Cliffs of Dover......

Skoshi_Tiger
Dec-27-2013, 05:07
Maybe that's because of the simple fact that the trim controls actually function in Cliffs of Dover......

Remember Dutch that it is only an Alpha. I guess we are very unfortunately that none (as far as I am aware) RoF planes have trim so I guess we will have to wait until they allocate resources to implement it into the flight models. I guess they have more important things to do at the moment. It's a pity because as far as I am aware by the time of the second world war trim controls (elevator at the very least) were fairly universal in combat aircraft. (Please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong!).

Looking back at combat flight sims of the past I can't remember any that didn't have some form of trim control, so I guess it's just a matter of time before they get around to implementing one?

Cheers everyone and have a very happy and preposterous New Year!

Arthursmedley
Dec-27-2013, 05:35
(Please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong!).



Yes, you are wrong. Planes in RoF have functioning trim controls if they had them fitted historically. It has been stated by the devs that trim for BoS is being worked on.

Skoshi_Tiger
Dec-27-2013, 09:26
Yes, you are wrong. Planes in RoF have functioning trim controls if they had them fitted historically. It has been stated by the devs that trim for BoS is being worked on.

Which ones had functioning trim controls?

Now I've owned the game since release but just to make sure I looked into the control section. On my up-to-date version of the game there are no trim control assignments.

There is however a stabilizer setting for aircraft that have adjustable horizontal stabilizers. Hey! I bet that's why the 109 has it's stabilizer adjustment, but the LaGG which uses trim tabs doesn't have trim?

Like I said Hopefully, sooner rather than later, they get around to putting trim into the flight model.

LuseKofte
Dec-27-2013, 11:22
I understand most post here, this tread is obviously meant for smoothing things between Clod and BOS.
And I agree entirely, what I see here is the same thing I see when I try and try and try to drag someone over from SAS site over here(I am admin over there). I might get lucky but suddenly my topic are spammed by people trying to convince them not to fly CLOD.
Frustrating, since they already bought the game, there are nothing to loose by trying ATAG server, I offer people a lot of my own spare time to nurse them in the start. But there are always someone that just do not want other to have fun with other sims. It is destructive for the entire sim community.

I think everyone that is negative towards BOS should think about their motives, because criticism that has surfaced most places is against the early beta, I like the fact that I got to try it, but every one here knows a judgement for the complete game is to soon.

vranac
Dec-27-2013, 13:57
And the comparisons with clod just don't work. In clod the planes fly like they're on rails but you still get clod fanboys saying it's fm is more advanced. Sure the cockpits look nicer and of course it's a finished game so everything is in place.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKE-qeEO8EM#t=3

Watch from 1:30.

LaGG FM is finished and final according to Han, he wasn't talking about 109F because discussion was about LaGG FM but I assume it's also final.
LaGG rolls like FW190 and doesn't behave according to the manual which is very detailed for some critical regimes of flight.

BoS is alfa only in few aspects, effects, DM visuals, maybe sky will have some more tweaking.

Tycoon
Dec-27-2013, 14:14
I am begging,pleading,praying, for someone,anyone to post the official lagg 3 roll rate.
NOT, it's too fast.
NOT, fast as a fw 190.
NOT, arcade.
NOT, stupid BOS.
THE official roll rate.
It DOES seem a bit fast but that argument has no credibility until we know the real roll rate.

LuseKofte
Dec-27-2013, 14:24
I find it funny to talk about historical roll rate in a sim.
WE do not fly in a real world, a sim simulate the real world , it simulate airflow, lift ,torque , sidewind and gravity. You cannot start comparing it with a plane not present in the game yet.

You need to see the difference between the opposing planes, in most sims to date they have been different within the same parameters but not entirely different to fly.
It need to be historical difference between the aircraft in the game with a simulated realistic feel to it. You will not have the same realistic flightsim as you got in DCS . We might get a more realistic combatsim in the line of IL 2 but up to date, to think otherwise are not within the developers goal for this sim.

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-27-2013, 14:40
I am begging,pleading,praying, for someone,anyone to post the official lagg 3 roll rate.
NOT, it's too fast.
NOT, fast as a fw 190.
NOT, arcade.
NOT, stupid BOS.
THE official roll rate.
It DOES seem a bit fast but that argument has no credibility until we know the real roll rate.

The Fw190 roll rate time has already been posted. It is widely known the 190 has one of the best if not the best roll rates of any WWII single prop plane. The Lagg is also widely known to have a very horrible roll rate. So when the Lagg times to roll are faster than a recorded 190's, there is a problem.

So while I cannot answer your specific question, the fact is the Lagg in BoS rolls better than a 190 which is obviously wrong. I can't give you the correct number, if it even exists. But can obviously say that the Lagg should roll slower than a 190 and not faster. That would be the 1st step in correcting the issue.

Edit: And with the caveat as far as correcting the problem, as Jaeger and gavagai says, if the Devs are shooting for realism. If not then it will be like it will be. Just like the ROF FMs that may never get fixed etc. I personally believe those types of errors will hurt the game in the long run. Many people like to fly their planes based on flight manuals etc.

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-27-2013, 14:50
Which ones had functioning trim controls?

Now I've owned the game since release but just to make sure I looked into the control section. On my up-to-date version of the game there are no trim control assignments.

There is however a stabilizer setting for aircraft that have adjustable horizontal stabilizers. Hey! I bet that's why the 109 has it's stabilizer adjustment, but the LaGG which uses trim tabs doesn't have trim?

Like I said Hopefully, sooner rather than later, they get around to putting trim into the flight model.

The additional trim hasn't been around that long. It was over 2 years after release in ROF before planes that had historical trim were actually equipped with it in game. The same can be said for the weapons that all used to have the same ammo and fire at the same speed. Now they are more realistic etc.

Skoshi_Tiger
Dec-27-2013, 19:27
The additional trim hasn't been around that long. It was over 2 years after release in ROF before planes that had historical trim were actually equipped with it in game. The same can be said for the weapons that all used to have the same ammo and fire at the same speed. Now they are more realistic etc.

Thanks for the clarification Bliss! I just hope they get their act together and sort out the trim for the LaGG. I'm sure the code will be transferable to the majority of the aircraft in their plane set and it would be better for all to get it sorted out from the beginning.

And sorry to the OP for running off at a tangent.

Hood
Dec-28-2013, 10:27
You know if you substitute 'BoS' for 'Clod' in that sentence I would agree with you 100% Hood. I guess we will get a lot more unity when people start realizing that their subjective opinions are not universal facts.

We must fly different games then. CloD is light years easier to fly and fight in to the point where it seems too easy. Maybe that is true to life or a reflection of how the control systems are modelled (maybe CloD allows for us using small joysticks where BoS doesn't) I don't know, but to argue that it's better is just silly.

That goes towards the entire point of this thread as does your point about subjectivity. Some people here have zero objectivity and all they see is BoS and immediately whinge whinge whinge, and see CloD and think epiphany. CloD is great but that doesn't mean BoS is bad when, after all, it's at alpha stage. I think some people know its alpha but don't understand or want to understand what that means.

Hood

nacy
Dec-28-2013, 11:45
Cliffs Of Dover is alpha with Team-Fusion as BOS is alpha.

Old_Canuck
Dec-28-2013, 11:52
This "unity" message would get more traction if you were able convert certain devs. and their fanboys first rather than starting at the consumer end. At the consumer end we tend to evaluate and buy - sometimes through experimentation by purchasing sims that don't live up to expectations- and yes CloD falls into that category but it was rescued by a dedicated group of volunteers because it had unused potential.

One example of how this top down unity could work is how Igor Tishin, Oleg Maddox and Ilya Shevchenko agreed long ago not to trample on each others products. I believe their adherence to this agreement over time is what forged their trust in each other to proceed (in unity) on the upcoming WWII sim. So now we see the beginnings of unity among flight sim developers thanks to their example. Will other developers join that scenario or will they continue to carve out market share by attempting to undermine other developers and by encouraging their fanboys to attack competing developer's products? If devs. create a superior product, these tactics of subterfuge would be unnecessary.

ChiefRedCloud
Dec-28-2013, 13:29
That goes towards the entire point of this thread as does your point about subjectivity. Some people here have zero objectivity and all they see is BoS and immediately whinge whinge whinge, and see CloD and think epiphany. CloD is great but that doesn't mean BoS is bad when, after all, it's at alpha stage. I think some people know its alpha but don't understand or want to understand what that means.

Hood

Perhaps it's a case of A bird In the Hand (i.e. CloD) is worth Two Birds (BoS) in the Bush.

Look I see a lot of personal opinions and good information here in this thread and else where. Which is a good thing. However when THE opinion starts to get POINTED then you have to wonder. You mentioned FAN BOYS. I'm transplating this to either mean someone who prefers one thing over another ( a lot) or one who sees problems in the picture (sims) as a "whole". Which is it. And the answer your question (which you have not asked) I do not have the Alpha of BoS. I'm relying on you and others to bring me unslanted information so that when it costs less than $100 (ok $90 what ever) I can perhaps purchase it.

Till then, Happy New Year ....

Hood
Dec-28-2013, 13:47
Which is it. And the answer your question (which you have not asked) I do not have the Alpha of BoS. I'm relying on you and others to bring me unslanted information so that when it costs less than $100 (ok $90 what ever) I can perhaps purchase it.

Till then, Happy New Year ....

Fan boys in my context means those that are blinkered by their adoration of one game or developer. This goes for all games and developers.

If you're relying on others for info I suggest you don't read these threads at all in this forum. You'll just see inane comments about problems in a game that is at alpha stage. Or inane comments based on personal dislike of the developer or 777 1C etc.

Instead I recommend waiting until final release for a better opinion or maybe even further if they release a demo version with a small map and 2 planes as they did in ROF. This is by far the best option as it may be that the final release is pants or that it's great but you don't like the content.

Personally I like it but until I can fly MP or campaign missions I only play it a couple of times each open session. The content isn't enough for me to devote more time to it yet.

And please don't get hung up on the price. Anything niche is more expensive generally and in real terms pc games are cheap compared to 10 years ago.

Hood

LuseKofte
Dec-28-2013, 14:00
oh boy. Kind of easy to see why sim community is dying :( . It is done by their own hand. There are no market for this stuff we do. And we have no sim to choose from. We cannot pick what we want . There isnt anything out there for us. When it comes we start attack it as it is evil itself.
None of these games are perfect, critisising a game on it Alpha stage for not being finnished ???
Like clod the game is not finnished

Kwiatek
Dec-28-2013, 14:39
And the comparisons with clod just don't work. In clod the planes fly like they're on rails but you still get clod fanboys saying it's fm is more advanced. Sure the cockpits look nicer and of course it's a finished game so everything is in place.



Yea you right in BOS planes definitly dont fly on the rails. I think more like on the springs :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SveBPF6AN0#t=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BguS-PzFuz4#t=0


Far from realistic to me. CLOD is much more realistic here. Only thing for now where BOS is better there is ground handling of planes but unfortunately planes in the air fly like hanging on gums or springs.

If 777 dont change these seriusly issue in flight model i think for me game is over before it would be relased :(

Hood
Dec-28-2013, 14:47
I kinda feel the same about the planes on springs but when I put an extension onto my joystick it was so much better. I'm hoping that some time before final release that they fully enable axes sensitivity adjustment.

Hood

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-28-2013, 15:40
I kinda feel the same about the planes on springs but when I put an extension onto my joystick it was so much better. I'm hoping that some time before final release that they fully enable axes sensitivity adjustment.

Hood

What exactly does that have to do with the problem? Did you watch the vids? Flight sim software (Flight model etc.) limits us to what/how we are able to fly. Immersion from a longer stick etc., has absolutely nothing to do with the problem in the above videos. The flight model is seriously flawed. In it's current state, it feels like a slight step up from War Thunder, let alone the inaccuracies with roll rates, climb speeds, turn rates etc. It's not even close to being realistic or accurate.

I've rode along in many tail draggers including some WWII birds, and DCS and Clod are the closest visual representations of that right now. They say it's 35% complete so I'll wait until they say it's released to do further testing. But it's laughable and boring to play in it's current state to me, especially with the arcade damage model and systems modeling. It just feels many steps down from what I'm used to playing.

Hood
Dec-28-2013, 15:51
Well if the controls aren't dampened down to realistic levels whatever they might be then all sorts of weird things can happen. Extending the stick for me reduced the effective stick movement so made things smoother. It was harder to get the "springs" effect.

If the curves can be dampened even more I'm hoping it'll be even better. I recall Eric Brown reducing the original IL2 curves way down to get something approaching what he used to experience.

Edit: Found a post dealing with this issue and including Eric Brown's joystick profile.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/archive/index.php/t-16887.html

It'll be interesting to see the end result. Although I'll be a dedicated LW pilot at the moment any time I spend is in the LaGG but that isn't really much time at all - too early in the development cycle for me.

Hood

ChiefRedCloud
Dec-28-2013, 18:39
@ Hood .... I read and weed out a lot in the various forums I frequent. And yes I do have to sift things through the "REALITY" filter a bit. But this is how I came to play CloD in the first place. At the price of $60 + tax. I've never been disappointed as after I read through ALL the positive and Negative comments of any forum willing to cover CloD, I then made my decision to purchase it. Honestly I've never regretted it. I do find it kind of humorous when I read of someone forking out something like $15 for CloD and they feel ripped off.

As for the price, well economics play a big part in my fixed income family (my wife, my self and my 18 year old special needs granddaughter which we are raising) and so I have to be very selective what I invest in. At New Wings we are making plans, if all goes well to host a server for BoS. But as much as I would enjoy jinxing through the alpha I will not put out that kind of money yet. So I'll take your advice and wait and read.

I've noticed that some are indeed passionate about their chosen game or sim. I am too but I try to be more tolerant with regards to my beliefs and others. No matter how madding it might be at times. usually I just laugh and shake my head and move on. Then sometimes, I open my mouth and (type). I can no more change another persons thoughts nor would I want to. I might present my case in the hope of changing their minds, but I will do it with respect to those around me and myself. Knowing full well that I might not succeed.

Anyway, thank you for your advice and, your opinion on things. And again, Happy New Years

Wandalen
Dec-28-2013, 18:41
I went for the premium edition of BOS, and i must say its looks good so far.
Dont realy understand peoples complains about a game that only 36% in alpha stage. How many % was CLOD when it was realised?? Well i thanks the Team Confusion for their good job at CLOD , my game vould ended up in my trash bin if it wasent for them! . Argee with the thread starter, why bother argue over another flight sim.
I love CLOD, BOS, ROF, DCS and i still having a good time flying IL2 46 :-)

Salute !
Wandalen

Foul Ole Ron
Dec-28-2013, 18:46
Part of the problem seems to be that the modelling that would restrict the levels of deflection you could actually get is absent currently. If you add an extra extension to your stick and fly smooth the problem won't appear as readily but there's clearly an issue that needs correction. The other problem seems to be that when the excessive deflections are pulled the aircraft isn't reacting the way you'd expect and all sorts of funny looking flight maneuvers can be pulled which don't look like they should be possible. It's still an alpha so we'll see what happens but they're talking about the flight models basically being done which doesn't bode too well to me. Hopefully it gets sorted out.

ChiefRedCloud
Dec-28-2013, 18:51
I went for the premium edition of BOS, and i must say its looks good so far.
Dont realy understand peoples complaints about a game that only 36% in alpha stage. How many % was CLOD when it was realised?? Well i thanks the Team Confusion for their good job at CLOD , my game would have ended up in my trash bin if it wasent for them! . Argee with the thread starter, why bother argue over another flight sim.
I love CLOD, BOS, ROF, DCS and i still having a good time flying IL2 46 :-)

Salute !
Wandalen


I agree in that I don't understand some folks complaints. But don't mistake an opinion for a complaint. I realize you know the difference, still. And I think some of the opinions come from bad tastes left from either 1C or 777 or both in some of their short comings. These are things we each have to overcome or deal with individually. Perhaps my novice mind can deal with things better in that I don't understand much of the technical side of these issues. But as in the videos above, I can see that those in development still have a ways to go. And I'm just as sure they know about it and are working on it.

Time will tell it all and we will then see what comes of all of this.

Happy New years from myself, my family and all of us at New Wings ....

Wandalen
Dec-28-2013, 19:04
Well i thanks the Team Confusion for their good job at CLOD

Sorry too mutch vine :alcohol: Team Fusion LOL

ATAG_Jeepy
Dec-28-2013, 20:08
Haha. Cheers Wiggo 'n Merry Christmas m8 !

chris455
Dec-31-2013, 14:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKE-qeEO8EM#t=3

Watch from 1:30.

LaGG FM is finished and final according to Han, he wasn't talking about 109F because discussion was about LaGG FM but I assume it's also final.
LaGG rolls like FW190 and doesn't behave according to the manual which is very detailed for some critical regimes of flight.

BoS is alfa only in few aspects, effects, DM visuals, maybe sky will have some more tweaking.

I found this video to be very disconcerting.
I've been to a few airshows in my time but I don't think I've ever seen a real aircraft do things like this.
I know the 109 was good, but.........jeesh.
I will almost certainly purchase BOS when it is released, but things like this make me even more grateful for what has been done with COD.

gavagai
Dec-31-2013, 22:28
The Fw190 roll rate time has already been posted. It is widely known the 190 has one of the best if not the best roll rates of any WWII single prop plane. The Lagg is also widely known to have a very horrible roll rate. So when the Lagg times to roll are faster than a recorded 190's, there is a problem.

So while I cannot answer your specific question, the fact is the Lagg in BoS rolls better than a 190 which is obviously wrong. I can't give you the correct number, if it even exists. But can obviously say that the Lagg should roll slower than a 190 and not faster. That would be the 1st step in correcting the issue.

Edit: And with the caveat as far as correcting the problem, as Jaeger and gavagai says, if the Devs are shooting for realism. If not then it will be like it will be. Just like the ROF FMs that may never get fixed etc. I personally believe those types of errors will hurt the game in the long run. Many people like to fly their planes based on flight manuals etc.


Ta-da! It's Rise of Flight all over again.

Who is going to be the sucker who digs all over for documented LagG-3 roll rates, finds them, shows them to be wildly out of step with BoS, and then is told to piss off? It's not going to be me this time.

I'm all for unity among flight sim fans, but we also need to do ourselves a favor and show a little backbone now and then. Flight sims aren't going anywhere. Insist on quality.

Tycoon
Jan-01-2014, 00:01
I guess your right, good point gav, but I'm still curious about the true roll rate and I'll tell you why.
I am sure anyone who has played BOS can testify that the slightly faster roll rate of the lagg over the 109 doesn't seem to give it any real advantage fighting, I personally thought that the quick roll rate would give the lagg a big advantage(and it makes sense if they are just trying to make the Russian coffin good) but it just doesn't.
What good is a slightly faster roll rate when the plane flies like a brick otherwise? That's why I'm wondering if there's something to it(so I would like to find the real roll rate some time).:thumbsup:

LuseKofte
Jan-01-2014, 06:00
Hmm, all I see is people wanting to have the best simulator there is. But what is a good simulator.
Well that depend on the user, and all us who wrote here got different opinion on that. To be honest I cannot fly too much CLOD every day, it gets boring very quick. I am sure if I fly a complete BOS every day it also gets boring.
These endless discussions on flight models don by armchair pilots never ends well. If you guys want to only fly CLOD in future that is fine by me, by the way I run the 109 in similar way when I saw that vid.
I also honestly cn say there are many many things in clod that are different from the real deal.
In the future I will probably fly Clod , Bos and DCS. And I hope as many from here will do the same. Because it is boring flying on empty servers

Incog
Jan-01-2014, 07:48
I paid €10 for Clod on steam and feel as if I ripped off the game devs. :p

LuseKofte
Jan-01-2014, 10:08
Well you are right :) Our squad originally wanted to move over to BOS but considering we like to fly bombers , that is going to be difficult. So our maingame will still be CLOD and a little BOS for fun

gavagai
Jan-01-2014, 11:21
I guess your right, good point gav, but I'm still curious about the true roll rate and I'll tell you why.
I am sure anyone who has played BOS can testify that the slightly faster roll rate of the lagg over the 109 doesn't seem to give it any real advantage fighting, I personally thought that the quick roll rate would give the lagg a big advantage(and it makes sense if they are just trying to make the Russian coffin good) but it just doesn't.
What good is a slightly faster roll rate when the plane flies like a brick otherwise? That's why I'm wondering if there's something to it(so I would like to find the real roll rate some time).:thumbsup:

Faster roll rate offers more advantage in a multi-aircraft fight, assuming you can take a few hits before your aircraft breaks apart...

@Jaeger,

This is not an endless armchair discussion. It is well documented that the Fw 190 had a superlative roll rate. We don't know the exact figures for the LagG-3 roll rate, but we know it shouldn't be comparable to the Fw 190. Therefore, the BoS LagG-3 roll rate is obviously wrong. There is nothing to discuss here.

The next point I take as a given, but I always have to make it explicit in these kinds of discussions: no one here expects perfection. None of us believe that a simulator on a PC can be just like the real thing. All we ask is that shit not be obviously wrong.

IIN8II
Jan-01-2014, 13:21
I have also notices the propensity of hardcore simmers the resist new or different games (not specifically ATAG but all sim communities). I for one don't see BoS as a competitor to CloD, but rather a compliment. We have had the Western front, and now we will have the Eastern. How are more people not excited for this? Many seem to be acting as if you have to choose one over the other. Maybe they just have small hard drives and cant install both?

I have been following the development of BoS ever since I heard about the project. The number of forum posts condemning the game to fail before anyone had even taken off yet was astounding to me. Not just rivet counting, but conspiracy theories of the dev's being out to rip everyone off as well. I think that a lot of this is just because those types of people tend to be more vocal than the people who are otherwise content with where a project stands in the dev process. The dev's for BoS have been very open and engaging with the community throughout the project, which was a major reason I purchased the early access for the game. Once the early access was released and people finally got their hands on the game the response was overwhelmingly positive. The game is in Alpha, with a long way to go before completion. People are now condemning the game again saying that its FM's are broken and the map is plain. The map is placeholder, and the flight models need tweaking and refinement to have them preforming as intended... its in alpha!!. Many of the people that are bashing the game haven't even played it....

As hardcore simmers we have high standards and expect a lot from our sims, as we should, but sometimes it leads to us not giving anything new a chance. Many thanks to Team Fusion for transforming CloD into an amazing game, but it doesn't have to be the only one guys... BoS is in Alpha, be patient, don't condemn a game thats far from finished. We need to support flight sims to keep them around!

LuseKofte
Jan-01-2014, 16:52
I know about the 190 roll rate, I also know that pilots converting from I-16 to LAGG 3 despite the plane.
Stalin did not want to replace the I-16 for some weird reason, but was convinced by his generals to do so. The LAGG was accepted because of its low consumption on Aluminium and not its performance. If it had been all metal it would never been accepted.
In this game I hope the YAK - 1 is made a little over the top since flying the 109 is plane boring. You can shoot down 7 Lagg before your out of ammo, and you do it easy. Shooting down two 109 with the lagg before winchester is an achievement.

So for me the turn rate on the LAGG is not of importance at all, I hope they stick to it.

Now who is going to fly LAGG online, it isn't like the real thing where massive numbers gained as a + . People are going to choose 109 and none want to be flying targets in a LAGG

ATAG_Endless
Jan-01-2014, 20:42
All of you have very valid points but you have to remember that we are just a spec in the ocean being a combat flight community so when it comes to new flight sims I think it's fantastic that people still develop them and without support there would be none

I understand that with clod it was a disappointment but people forget that the same people made the original il2 and 1946 and I haven't heard anybody say shit about them
Companies make mistakes we all do we are all human and I know for a fact people judge them on others opinions and if clod wasn't a disaster have you ever thought that there would be no team fusion as there would be no reason to

I think that with bos people will want more flight sims and I think and hope it will bring more people to clod not less

Think of it this way when was the last time you saw a combat flight sim in a games shop ?
With this new sim sitting on the shop stand it will get more people interested who would otherwise never even had considered it and then after buying and playing it will want to watch vids on you tube and research better flying tactics and they will certainly come across a clod thread

So for you guys who want it to fail just remember if this fails then you will most likely not see another combat flight SIM in a long time because it will not be worth the risk

This is our hobby if you slam the sim you are biting the hand that feeds you

Skoshi_Tiger
Jan-01-2014, 22:20
I paid €10 for Clod on steam and feel as if I ripped off the game devs. :p

I pre-ordered the Collectors edition of CoD for $120AUD (just as I supported the BoS developers by becoming a Gold founder of BoS an hour or two after it became available and became involved in the Kickstarter for DCS WWII), I still think the money I spent on CoD is the best money I've ever spent on a flight sim.

Hopefully BoS and WWII will reach the same or higher marks. I guess only time will tell, There is a lot of work for them to do between now and their release.

Headshot
Jan-02-2014, 04:37
I pre-ordered the Collectors edition of CoD for $120AUD (just as I supported the BoS developers by becoming a Gold founder of BoS an hour or two after it became available and became involved in the Kickstarter for DCS WWII), I still think the money I spent on CoD is the best money I've ever spent on a flight sim.

Hopefully BoS and WWII will reach the same or higher marks. I guess only time will tell, There is a lot of work for them to do between now and their release.

Have to agree with you there ST. Pre ordered the collectors as well and also I had saved for a new pc at release. I've never had to much trouble running COD (due to the new rig I think) and have had thousands of hours of fun with it. Can't think of to many other hobbies as cheap as that.

So bring on BOS and DCS and any other WW2 fight sims.

LuseKofte
Jan-02-2014, 04:57
I firmly believe that ,however BOS goes it is a opportunity for recruitment to the sim community.

CLOD is crap when you look at populated servers. The game does not serve all timezones and have many other dysfunctional features. But us who fly it do so with passion.

vranac
Jan-02-2014, 07:06
Hmm, all I see is people wanting to have the best simulator there is. But what is a good simulator.
Well that depend on the user, and all us who wrote here got different opinion on that. To be honest I cannot fly too much CLOD every day, it gets boring very quick. I am sure if I fly a complete BOS every day it also gets boring.
These endless discussions on flight models don by armchair pilots never ends well. If you guys want to only fly CLOD in future that is fine by me, by the way I run the 109 in similar way when I saw that vid.
I also honestly cn say there are many many things in clod that are different from the real deal.
In the future I will probably fly Clod , Bos and DCS. And I hope as many from here will do the same. Because it is boring flying on empty servers

What is a good simulator for you Jaeger ? What is missing in CloD ?

CloD is a sandbox sim , you can make everything you want out of it. Lets say I'm missing online wars like in old Il2. Imagine SoW BoF campaign but not once in the week but
constantly running until map is won. Lot of fun for fighter and bomber guys and bombers are essential.
That was also made for CloD, scripts are available but there was problem with a good server and bandwidth.

No one is against a new good sim, but CloD had set some standards and a new sim have to be as good or better. I don't see that in BoS.
I expected that FM will be good at least but it seems right now it will not.

From what I saw Kwaitek is pilot in RL and I saw some others criticizing FM, LaGG is documented very well in manual and pilots are asking why it doesn't fly like that.
Those disagreements are not small details, many things are way off and only answers you'll get from devs are that like I quoted already or this.


Han[/B]"]And one more thing - we spent tremendous amount of effort that would create the most realistic FM, spend more stolkozhe on what would prove to freaks from sukhoi that it's actually realistic - do not intend, and do not have time for this, even if we wanted to.
We need to do a return and instruments, for example, it is more important to meet than complexes of a few nerds who can not even communicate normally.
Is that right?



SAS_47, on 29 Dec 2013 - 13:38, said:

Yeah I'm not worried. )
Only a few do not understand why Messer with less and less support section ailerons and wing with less restriction is better managed with closed slats. And on the roll too.

Here is a more interesting question, in fact it is. That would not lie - after New Year I'll ask Andrey about his vision of the basic reasons for this situation. Remind me in PM after 13th.

And those "nerds" just asked why LaGG is way off from manual data, none of those guys was rude or disrespectful.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D81474%26s%3Deb39a9f6b1c178410 ae9b86463c22d82&usg=ALkJrhgFVMYbAoEaEVc5DYvGiTKvL_WbVQ


CLOD is crap when you look at populated servers. The game does not serve all timezones and have many other dysfunctional features. But us who fly it do so with passion.

I would also like at least two big servers populated but we rarely had numbers for that. But this is much better than having three half empty servers with 15-20 pilots on a big map.

Which dysfunctional features ?


The game is in Alpha, with a long way to go before completion. People are now condemning the game again saying that its FM's are broken and the map is plain. The map is placeholder, and the flight models need tweaking and refinement to have them preforming as intended... its in alpha!!. Many of the people that are bashing the game haven't even played it....

IIN8II, FM isn't alpha it's finished and final, they are very satisfied with it.


Posted 26 December 2013 - 17:56



72AG_martefi, on 26 Dec 2013 - 10:29, said:

This can not be.

I look then straight festival militant ignorance ... LaGG FM is final, this is how he should fly. The higher the speed the greater the overload at the same angle of attack = less "drawdown".

Go practical aerodynamics that if read on what some aircraft before notifying ITALICS in what neither belmesa do not understand ...

Just sort of a fairy ...
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/122-fizika-i-aerodinamika-v-bzs/page-70&usg=ALkJrhggyalQgYC0OZvaqiMpJHSsMKLeDA#entry115012

ATAG_Nudge
Jan-02-2014, 07:10
I'd love to have some unity with everyone who either produces or flies computer combat flight simulators.

But there is a simple truth to be considered. It is this;

I am sick to death of waiting. Waiting for new sims, waiting for patches, waiting for other new sims, waiting for their patches, waiting for Maddox Games, Waiting for news, waiting for updates, waiting for what will happen to the hobby next, oh my God it's that Jason bloke, waiting for mods, waiting for Ilya, waiting, waiting.

I sometimes regret ever having left the old IL2 Sturmovik behind. If I hadn't seen the next generation, I wouldn't feel so bad, I'd be like a pig in muck. But I did see it, so now I'm waiting. Just like I have been since 2006 when I got the bonus DVD with 1946. And here we are, nearly eight years later, waiting....................

So I signed up for 'Star Citizen'. Guess what we all do there? You guessed it, we wait.

Maybe I should just buy a boat. At least the scenery will be nice.



+1 for me

For me, BOS and the offer of early access via payment (Alarm Bells ringing in my head) was that with the waiting and screwed up patch releases with Cliffs I felt how can I trust these guys to come through with the goods. I tried 777's rise of flight and felt it was too arcade like for me even in realistic battles.

Hopefully BOS won't be anything like WARTHUNDER and the ridiculous waiting times to join a battle (19 Minutes) then I will be disappointed.

With that said I will be trying the finished product though. But I will just simply sit out and wait.

For me with regards to complexity to a sim, I prefer this to the older 1946. IMHO 46 is a game compared to Cliffs of which I regard to be a simulator more than a game.

LuseKofte
Jan-02-2014, 08:28
To be honest ROF and CLOD is the same but with different speed :)
and too easy levelbombing features in ROF. But I find the gameengine on ROF more realistic than in CLOD. Same goes for BOS, I am not afraid it is going to be like warthunder. But I know , for getting me interested I need more planes a realistic bombsight ad routine on levelbombing and more maps, iow same problems as in CLOD.

You guys saying it is a multiple choise on what to do in CLOD, I do not see that, sorry. And sadly the majority of simmers dont either. And that is a problem. More combatsims equal more people. And that is all that counts

Tettric
Jan-02-2014, 12:42
Your spelling iss fine.

Games like War Thunder bring instant gratification in action coupled with terrific eye and ear candy. Nothing wrong with that, as the numbers clearly show. Corgi sells a ton of the ready-built cast medal model airplanes -- I have a few myself and I think they're great. But they're a far cry from the hours needed to assemble and paint the plastic models I built myself as a kid, or the balsa wood & tissue models my Dad's generation built.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I haven't been following the relevant forums, but I wonder what the take is in the A2A forums when making the inevitable comparison of their Wings of Power 3 P51D Mustang to DCS' version in terms of accuracy and detail.

I beg to differ, nothing beats are realistic sounding Merlin for "ear candy" XD

Incog
Jan-02-2014, 13:06
War Thunder isn't that great, though it's a game that I actually hope really takes off.

I for one have been playing most RTS games (Aoe3, SC2) up until I saw War Thunder as "free to play" on steam. I decided to give it a shot and I was promptly hooked. I'd played all 3 combat flight sims that microsoft released and I thought war thunder was even better than those (which it's probably the case). Anyway, on War Thunder forums some mentioned how it was lackluster in quite a few different aspects: flight models, damage models and even spotting were pretty bad, even at the highest possible realism level. That person said that people should play Clod instead. A few youtube videos later convinced me to give the game a shot. Haven't looked back since. The game is amazing.

So, the point is that if War Thunder succeeds, it'll be very good for the Clod community as it's an entry level flight sim. Since it's also free, more people will try. As more people try, a few of those will come play this game, as I have. Which means that Clod will grow. This is thanks to games like World of Tanks and War Thunder. I think the combat flight sim community will continue growing. Which is great! I'm not even taking the new hot shot flight sims that are DCS and BoS. Nor am I talking about how good these games all look (and new GPUs!).

Great time to get into virtual flying imo. That's why my fingers are crossed that war thunder succeeds. I don't think it will as a sim but it might as a game. A ton of people play and enjoy the arcade mode already.




Edit: Now the RTS scene... well that's another story. It's really damn sad that there are no new amazing multiplayer RTS being made anymore. q_q

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-02-2014, 14:19
I beg to differ, nothing beats are realistic sounding Merlin for "ear candy" XD

Hmm, perhaps the difference is subtle for many, but I perceive a huge difference between what the Merlin engine sounds like in Cliffs of Dover and what the real thing sounds like at any air show:



https://vimeo.com/83252728


Here are some excellent mods done by "Tiger_33" which come very close to "the real thing":


https://vimeo.com/groups/192419/videos/58826952

ATAG_Lolsav
Jan-02-2014, 14:34
Here are some excellent mods done by "Tiger_33" which come very close to "the real thing":


https://vimeo.com/groups/192419/videos/58826952

Link doesnt work

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-02-2014, 17:05
Link doesnt work

Hmm, for some reason Tiger_33 has made all his Vimeo videos unavailable. Perhaps he cancelled his Vimeo account; I don't know. Although I downloaded his Clod sound mod video from Video (I'm a "Vimeo Plus" member, so maybe I have access to archived videos. Who knows?), I don't think it's appropriate for me to upload it to YouTube for all to see without his express permission. This video was posted here in the ATAG Forum about a year or so ago and got rave reviews from most of the forum members who saw it. Needless to say, it much more closely sounded like the real Merlin that I imbedded above, so it is possible. I'm not sure if he approached Team Fusion or even if there was any communication at all.

nacy
Jan-02-2014, 18:20
les vidéos de tiger_33 ICI: http://vimeo.com/65246677 http://vimeo.com/58826952

Pourquoi tiger_33 fait pas parti de la Team-Fusion, voir ici Numéro de Message #55 http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=412&t=178930&start=50

(tiger_33):
Bah ce n'est pas vraiment un désaccord mais les Anglos Saxons ont une manière bien a eux de concevoir les choses et surtout d'avoir toujours raison ..de plus ils ont tous les outils pour réellement "Modder" COD et moi pas, sauf pour ce qui est de la partie sonore (et encore que la partie samples).

De plus pour arriver a un résultat comme celui des vidéos,je suis obligé de modifier quelques petites bricoles dans quelques fichiers FM et la je ne peux le faire qu'avec la dll de KEGETYS qui n'est plus compatible avec le mod du Team Fusion.

Au final il vaut mieux faire ça pour le Fun et pas comme tous les autres mods sons qui ont été fait sur le vieux Il2 avec tous les outils disponibles pour réellement bosser.

De plus je pense savoir que la TF travaille sur leur propre Mod Son qui sera intégré dans le futur Patch donc pas d'inquiétudes pour l’environnement sonore ça va venir de leur coté....

Chuck_Owl
Jan-03-2014, 11:05
les vidéos de tiger_33 ICI: http://vimeo.com/65246677 http://vimeo.com/58826952

Pourquoi tiger_33 fait pas parti de la Team-Fusion, voir ici Numéro de Message #55 http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=412&t=178930&start=50

(tiger_33):
Bah ce n'est pas vraiment un désaccord mais les Anglos Saxons ont une manière bien a eux de concevoir les choses et surtout d'avoir toujours raison ..de plus ils ont tous les outils pour réellement "Modder" COD et moi pas, sauf pour ce qui est de la partie sonore (et encore que la partie samples).

De plus pour arriver a un résultat comme celui des vidéos,je suis obligé de modifier quelques petites bricoles dans quelques fichiers FM et la je ne peux le faire qu'avec la dll de KEGETYS qui n'est plus compatible avec le mod du Team Fusion.

Au final il vaut mieux faire ça pour le Fun et pas comme tous les autres mods sons qui ont été fait sur le vieux Il2 avec tous les outils disponibles pour réellement bosser.

De plus je pense savoir que la TF travaille sur leur propre Mod Son qui sera intégré dans le futur Patch donc pas d'inquiétudes pour l’environnement sonore ça va venir de leur coté....

I took the liberty to translate for our english-speaking friends:

"Bah, it's not really a disagreement, but Anglo-Saxons have their way of seeing things and thinking they are always right about everything. Furthermore, they have tools to really mod COD. I don't have such tools. I can mod some sound effects, but I can only mod short samples.

To achieve such a result as seen in my videos, I have to modify some small things in some FM files and even then, I can only do so with the KEGETYS ddl file, which is no longer compatible with the Team Fusion Mod.

In the end, I think it's better to do this kind of stuff for fun. Other sound mods have been done on the old Il-2 game with appropriate tools available, tools that allow a modder to truly do what he wants to do.

Furthermore, I believe that Team Fusion is working on their own sound Mod that will be integrated in a future patch. So, I wouldn't worry for sound environment. It probably is being worked on their side.

Bearcat
Jan-04-2014, 23:08
I'd love to have some unity with everyone who either produces or flies computer combat flight simulators.
But there is a simple truth to be considered. It is this;
I am sick to death of waiting. Waiting for new sims, waiting for patches, waiting for other new sims, waiting for their patches, waiting for Maddox Games, Waiting for news, waiting for updates, waiting for what will happen to the hobby next, oh my God it's that Jason bloke, waiting for mods, waiting for Ilya, waiting, waiting.
I sometimes regret ever having left the old IL2 Sturmovik behind. If I hadn't seen the next generation, I wouldn't feel so bad, I'd be like a pig in muck. But I did see it, so now I'm waiting. Just like I have been since 2006 when I got the bonus DVD with 1946. And here we are, nearly eight years later, waiting....................
So I signed up for 'Star Citizen'. Guess what we all do there? You guessed it, we wait.
Maybe I should just buy a boat. At least the scenery will be nice.

Suck it up because wait we must... :grandpa:grandpa:grandpa:grandpa

Remember when the patches would come out for IL2...and within a day someone would be asking for the next patch..? :)


I understand most post here, this tread is obviously meant for smoothing things between Clod and BOS.
And I agree entirely, what I see here is the same thing I see when I try and try and try to drag someone over from SAS site over here(I am admin over there). I might get lucky but suddenly my topic are spammed by people trying to convince them not to fly CLOD.
Frustrating, since they already bought the game, there are nothing to loose by trying ATAG server, I offer people a lot of my own spare time to nurse them in the start. But there are always someone that just do not want other to have fun with other sims. It is destructive for the entire sim community.

I think everyone that is negative towards BOS should think about their motives, because criticism that has surfaced most places is against the early beta, I like the fact that I got to try it, but every one here knows a judgement for the complete game is to soon.

I agree.. and I don't get the notion that you have to be loyal to one sim or another.. My loyalties lie with the genre.... CoD, IL2,DCS.. heck CFS.. FSX.. tey all had issues at first and some never got resolved.. but for me WWII is the sim niche that I prefer.. so CoD, BoS, DCS WWII .. and IL2 are no brainers for me.. WoP had promise.. but instead of fixing it they came out with WT and I tried to like WT.. it wasn't for me... I am grateful that I can now run CoD.. I even put it on the same rig I had when it was released for Ss&Gs .. and guess what... It runs... it doesn't run as well as I would like.. but if it had run like that when it was released I am sure there would be a lot more folks enjoying it now and a lot less rancor.. but it runs great today so that's all that really matters.. I think BoS is great.. at this stage it really implies great things for the genre ... I hope that I do not regret the $$$ I dropped for DCS WWII.. and I hope I don't have issues with the extras that came with my KS support.. but if it fails .. I will have learned a costly but necessary lesson..

If we want this genre to survive we need to support it and all the side stuff that goes with it regardless to the camp it falls in.. Most of us can't afford to support everything .. but all of us can support something.. Sites like this.. M4T.. SHQ .. and Hyperlobby.. they are the lifesblood of this pastime of ours.. I had no problem dropping for the Premium Edition of BoS because even though I don't fly German AC much.. I do fly the La-5 .. and I know the sim needs support and it was going to be on my HD regardless.. just as CoD was in 2011.. and hopefully DCS WWII will be when it gets here.. I don't care for WWI much .. but I have all of the single seat fighters save 1 in RoF.. and I got most of them on sale for less than a 6 pack or a nice Merlot .. We do this because we like it .. we enjoy it and for many of us it touches a part of our youth ... I bet most of us as kids held our hands out in the air going "Eaarrraaannnnanannnhhhhhhhh duhduhduhduhduh" as we took to the skies from the ends of our arms and shot down our imaginary foes... I know I did.. so for me this simming thing runs deep.. and it touches a nerve. We need to focus more on what binds us than what separates us.. because what separates us is really an illusion .. it should always be about the simming.

My 2 cents..

ATAG_Headshot
Jan-05-2014, 00:01
I bet most of us as kids held our hands out in the air going "Eaarrraaannnnanannnhhhhhhhh duhduhduhduhduh" as we took to the skies from the ends of our arms and shot down our imaginary foes... I know I did.. so for me this simming thing runs deep.. and it touches a nerve.


This sums it up quite well for me actually.

jaydee
Jan-05-2014, 04:58
thanks for great opinions and viewpoints lads !..My OP was a Troll to get pilots talkin to each other!
2014 : We got TF 401 on the horizon for COD.(anyone whos reading this post who hasn't flown COD this year,its incredible !) Try it if you don't believe me !
We got BOS with early access! We got all the moans and groans from the "Experts" with "charts and graphs" to prove their point !...as per usual !
We got DCS with WW2 coming next !
For fuck sake Sim Pilots ! We haven't had it so good since HL with Il2 !
2014 is the year that "us pilots" may be spoiled for choice ! Like I said in my OP,I have got room on my HD for BOS,COD and DCS..and still enjoy Il2 HSFX!
Happy new "flying" year to all !~S~

Headshot
Jan-05-2014, 05:51
thanks for great opinions and viewpoints lads !..My OP was a Troll to get pilots talkin to each other!
2014 : We got TF 401 on the horizon for COD.(anyone whos reading this post who hasn't flown COD this year,its incredible !) Try it if you don't believe me !
We got BOS with early access! We got all the moans and groans from the "Experts" with "charts and graphs" to prove their point !...as per usual !
We got DCS with WW2 coming next !
For fuck sake Sim Pilots ! We haven't had it so good since HL with Il2 !
2014 is the year that "us pilots" may be spoiled for choice ! Like I said in my OP,I have got room on my HD for BOS,COD and DCS..and still enjoy Il2 HSFX!
Happy new "flying" year to all !~S~

Well said JD. :salute:

Skoshi_Tiger
Jan-05-2014, 20:04
I guess it's a bit like trying to argue about the best Australian Car! Ford people will extol the virtues of the FPV and GM-Holden guys rabbit-on about HSV's until their blue in the face and now since both companies are pulling manufacturing out of Australia all the Toyota aficionados are walking around with a smirk on their face arguing that Toyota will be the only Australian automotive manufacturer in a year or so's time.

Eventually it ends up bad and their wives/girlfriends get angry at them and drag them home from the party.

People on these forums are united in their love of Combat Flight Sims, just as the guys described above are united in their love of Australian cars! What more do you want????

Headshot
Jan-06-2014, 01:55
I guess it's a bit like trying to argue about the best Australian Car! Ford people will extol the virtues of the FPV and GM-Holden guys rabbit-on about HSV's until their blue in the face and now since both companies are pulling manufacturing out of Australia all the Toyota aficionados are walking around with a smirk on their face arguing that Toyota will be the only Australian automotive manufacturer in a year or so's time.

Eventually it ends up bad and their wives/girlfriends get angry at them and drag them home from the party.

People on these forums are united in their love of Combat Flight Sims, just as the guys described above are united in their love of Australian cars! What more do you want????

ST don't you drive an old Valiant Charger or some thing ? :)

Skoshi_Tiger
Jan-06-2014, 06:12
ST don't you drive an old Valiant Charger or some thing ? :)

Yes! Mate, in so many ways they are the BEST AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED and BUILT CAR eva! ;)

Headshot
Jan-06-2014, 06:53
Yes! Mate, in so many ways they are the BEST AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED and BUILT CAR eva! ;)

Like flight sims, my taste for cars are varied (I drive HJ Monaro coupe). I find all things mechanical beautiful. Even the mighty Australian Valiant.:)

Skoshi_Tiger
Jan-06-2014, 07:24
Like flight sims, my taste for cars are varied (I drive HJ Monaro coupe). I find all things mechanical beautiful. Even the mighty Australian Valiant.:)

Monaro's are cool! My wife has a HT Premier wagon. There is something about the older cars that makes them a bit special.

Headshot
Jan-06-2014, 08:00
Monaro's are cool! My wife has a HT Premier wagon. There is something about the older cars that makes them a bit special.

This is my little girl and her first car (16 and learning to drive)6582
Its a 1964 Triumph Herald. Some of our Pommy mates will know this one pretty well.

Sorry for going off topic guys:sorry: