Bf 109 E-3 Take-off Question

[ATAG_Flare]

I have a problem.

I normally fly Spitfires, and know the takeoff sequence by heart. I decided to try my hand at the 109, and I watched Soeren Dalsgaard`s 109 tutorial. BUT, when I throttle up the engine, my plane starts going at 3 kph across the field and am turning to the right. No matter WHAT, I can't get going fast enough! Help me get off the ground (lol) please.

flare2000x

[ATAG_JTDawg]

I have a problem.

I normally fly Spitfires, and know the takeoff sequence by heart. I decided to try my hand at the 109, and I watched Soeren Dalsgaard`s 109 tutorial. BUT, when I throttle up the engine, my plane starts going at 3 kph across the field and am turning to the right. No matter WHAT, I can't get going fast enough! Help me get off the ground (lol) please.

flare2000x

I know it is a prop pitch ATA thing , a Blue pilot will point you at vid etc. Or walk you through it :thumbsup:

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

I have a problem.

I normally fly Spitfires, and know the takeoff sequence by heart. I decided to try my hand at the 109, and I watched Soeren Dalsgaard`s 109 tutorial. BUT, when I throttle up the engine, my plane starts going at 3 kph across the field and am turning to the right. No matter WHAT, I can't get going fast enough! Help me get off the ground (lol) please.

flare2000x

Prop pitch position for the manual pitch 109's need to be a 12 o'clock. So you need to use your controls to move the pitch to the fully fine pitch position.

Also, deploy your landing flaps a few clicks down to assist in takeoff.

TF Wiki manual:

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=bf109e34

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

As Buzz and Dawg mentioned it is a prop pitch issue. There is a bug in the game on 109's that spools the pitch to coarse when you first spawn (in manual and auto models). You need to look at the pitch clock and roll it back to 12:00. E 109's had electric pitch control which is quite different to constant speed hydraulic props. It is infinitely variable and the pilot adjusts specific pitch to get a specific rpm at a power setting (ata).

[ATAG_Flare]

Thank you all very much. I didn't figure out the problem, but I tried the E-4, with automatic pitch control. It worked! First multiplayer mission flying for blue, I was able to damage a Hurricane over Folkstone or Dover, not quite sure which, before obtaining my usual fine fireball crash!

flare2000x

[Vlerkies]

I find the E4 with auto pitch needs to be disengaged, then moved to 12 o clock quick then re-engaged for it to work. Seems like a little bug.
Easy to tell though, if you in level flight and power down or up you should see the prop pitch indicator move on its own, if its working.

[ATAG_Flare]

I find the E4 with auto pitch needs to be disengaged, then moved to 12 o clock quick then re-engaged for it to work. Seems like a little bug.
Easy to tell though, if you in level flight and power down or up you should see the prop pitch indicator move on its own, if its working.

It seemed to be working for me.

Thanks anyways, flare2000x

[Davis0079]

on topic...on take off if you go full throttle and you dont go far or you cant get the RPMs up it is because the prop pitch is wrong....even with auto pitch this happens....best advice is for you to bind the auto prop pitch on/off button to something you can remember....on that same note I suggest you bind prop pitch increase/decrease keybinds to something on you controllers...in the 109 prop pitch is not something you flip when crossing an alt threshold...it requires constant adjustment when not on auto


off topic...if you learn to fly in the 109 without the auto pitch you can get better performance.....for instance at low alt if you go full throttle the intake pressure gets too high and you will over heat quickly...but if you lower your throttle so your intake pressure is at 1.3 with the auto pitch it will lower your rpm also.....but without auto pitch you can run the lower pressure for proper heat management and yet still get the full power of running at max RPM...if you learn to fly without it you can push the 109 to the limits....


this post from Buzzsaw is about the best intake/rpm info I know to use for this game.....many of the setting are unobtainable with the auto pitch...mainly low alt/ 1.3ata/max rpm and high alt/max throttle/above normal max rpm (example: running at 2800 rpms in the E4n above 6k)......this post can be a little overwhelming to try and read at first...but if you keep at it with the 109s...one day you will read it and it will all make sense (i think I'm looking at it right???)....hes not really talking about only 109 performance, but what he does post on the matter is the info that got used when the game was tweaked to its current state....or so I would assume by the way that he post it as fact, and not up for debate.....


All of your quotes are anecdotal, and therefore cannot be taken as objective scientific testing.

It is impossible for the narrators of your quotes to know whether the German aircraft they were up against were using full power, partial power, what their fuel status and weight were, what the status of the engines were, etc. etc. They also do not mention their own fuel status. Without knowing what the relative weights of the aircraft are, it is impossible to know which might have an advantage. Perhaps one aircraft had almost empty tanks, perhaps one had full tanks.

In your discussion of engine power, you neglect to mention the fact the 109E, fully loaded, was approx. 500 lbs lighter than a Spitfire.

In addition, your facts in regards to engine power are inaccurate.

Here are the power charts for the 3 main types of DB601 engines:

DB601A used in 109E-3/E-4

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6196/ttj7.jpg

DB601Aa used in E-3B/E-4B

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6783/8jgl.jpg

DB601N used in E-4N

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1978/vpmj.jpg

The following is a chart for the Merlin III used in the Spit IA, (the blue line) showing both +12 boost and +6 boost power levels:

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8094/65gx.jpg

I would recommend you study the charts carefully.

The Merlin III produces 1310 Bhp at 8000 ft.

At that altitude the DB601A at 1.30ata is producing 1070 PS, which is 1055 Bhp, not your claim of under 1000 hp.

And when using 1.40ata, its emergency power rating, not shown clearly on the chart, but it could provide approx. 1150 PS, or 1134 Bhp.

At 8000 ft, the point at which is the Merlin III's strongest altitude, the Spitfire IA 100 octane holds a powerloading advantage, with 1310 hp pushing approx. 6172 lbs, for a powerloading figure of 4.71 lbs per hp.

At that same altitude, if we extend the 1.40 ata power line, the 109E-3 at 5600 lbs has 1134 hp, for a powerloading of 4.93 lbs per hp.

Moderate advantage Spitfire.

Now lets look at 14,763 ft, where the DB601A has its full throttle height at 1.30ata. At that altitude, it is producing 1020 PS or 1006 Bhp for a powerloading of 5.56 lbs per hp.

The Merlin III is producing 1090 Bhp at the same altitude, for a powerloading of 5.66 lbs per hp, now slightly behind the German aircraft.

Slight advantage 109.

Now lets look at 20,000 ft, where the Merlin III is producing 890 Bhp, for a powerloading of 6.93 lbs per hp.

At the same altitude, the Daimler Benz is producing 840 PS or 828 Bhp, for a powerloading of 6.76 lbs per hp, it has improved its lead.

Moderate advantage 109.

Altitude now up to 7000 meters or 23,000 ft, the DB601A is producing 750 PS or 739 Bhp, for a powerloading of 7.57 lbs per hp.

The Merlin III is now producing 780 Bhp, for a powerloading of 7.91 lbs per hp, falling further behind.

Definite advantage 109.

The Merlin line runs out, I could extend it and continue the comparison, but the facts are clear, the Spit IA holds a definite powerloading advantage at altitudes under 10,000 ft, but falls behind as the comparison is taken higher.

If you decide to compare the lower alt tuned DB601Aa engine, you can see it will do better at lower altitudes versus the Spit IA 100 octane, and if you factor in the DB601N engine, then you will find it is a match, or better than the Merlin III throughout the altitude range.

I haven't included the Merlin XII which powers the Spit IIA, it has slightly less horsepower at lower altitudes than the Merlin III, but more at higher, so it does better than the DB601A which equips the E-4 throughout the altitude range, but is a little behind the E-4N and its DB601N.

I have also not factored in the fact the DB601 engines were cleared for higher rpms at altitudes over 6000 meters, for the DB601A and Aa, they were allowed 2600 rpm and the N models were allowed 2800 rpm. This is going to provide additional horsepower and add to the advantage they already hold.