I Like This One

[Headshot]

http://youtu.be/gBUWbGCoJB0

[Mastiff]

+1

[Kodoss]

The wrong drop sequence of SC 50 bombs at the Bf 109, which you can see in the upper video for BOS,

is corrected in the coming TF 4.2 patch for CloD to historically:
1 - Front Left
2 - Rear Left
3 - Front Right
4 - Rear Right

:D:salute:

[Mastiff]

The wrong drop sequence of SC 50 bombs at the Bf 109, which you can see in the upper video for BOS,

is corrected in the coming TF 4.2 patch for CloD to historically:
1 - Front Left
2 - Rear Left
3 - Front Right
4 - Rear Right

:D:salute:

you do know that totally different game right? different graphics engine. different FM, different DM.

[Kodoss]

you do know that totally different game right? different graphics engine. different FM, different DM.

Since they took the models from the died Clod follow up (BoM), they also took some errors with them.
And I'm aware that those are different games.

What I find good is the fieldmodded head armor. Would be interesting to see if the full head armor has it's top cushion.

Btw, do they still call the Bf 109 F-4/R1 (gunpod variant) wrongly as F-4/R7?
And do they intend to build the Sigla (security glass instead of plexiglass as front window, introduced in March '41) into there F-4 cockpit model?

[Mastiff]

Since they took the models from the died Clod follow up (BoM), they also took some errors with them.
And I'm aware that those are different games.

What I find good is the fieldmodded head armor. Would be interesting to see if the full head armor has it's top cushion.

Btw, do they still call the Bf 109 F-4/R1 (gunpod variant) wrongly as F-4/R7?
And do they intend to build the Sigla (security glass instead of plexiglass as front window, introduced in March '41) into there F-4 cockpit model?

really?! your going to call out semantics on a game? When you can do the same for CLOD?


while your at it call out World of Planes or War thunder..

[DUI]

you do know that totally different game right? different graphics engine. different FM, different DM.

What does your question and statement have to do with Kodoss' hint that there is something modelled incorrectly in BoS (and until 4.2 in CloD)? If the bomb drop order is not modelled the right way, it is not modelled the right way. Point.

[Mastiff]

I'm referring the naming of planes. if were going to call out naming of planes, next thing your going to see is the manufacturing companies asking for money to use the correct nomenclatures. Just like what just happened 5 years ago with 1C Maddoxx pacific theatre.

[LuseKofte]

EDIT: It is not worth it, this section is all about telling BOS is crap and CLOD is the best.
If BOS is arcade I say clod is the same. Game physics is the best I ever tried. CLOD is better in many ways , but I am quite sure BOS willl be better in other.
This discussion is fruitless and only bring the communities further away from each other.
CLOD need flyers, even more than BOS will need them, dividing these two communities is absolutely not in best interest for CLOD.
So in my final point in this section I urge people to think about that before starting another rant.

Because no matter what your intention is it looks sure more like politics than a game review. And yes I call it a game, some of you did take me on calling it a game. saying that is inferior to a Sim.
Now that is really interesting nit pitting. CLOD is a game to me also.
I resign from this section

[Broodwich]

you're

I rest my case

[Headshot]

LOL two posts before a negative comment. Thats a record.

I just thought it was a good video.

If I pointed out every time I saw someone fly through a tree in a video people would be calling me a tossa.

Just enjoy the videos people have put the time and effort to make and post.

[9./JG52 Ziegler]

LOL two posts before a negative comment. Thats a record.

I just thought it was a good video.

If I pointed out every time I saw someone fly through a tree in a video people would be calling me a tossa.

Just enjoy the videos people have put the time and effort to make and post.

:salute: +1 It's a "game" video for members of the " flight simulation" community to "hopefully" enjoy. It's not a quiz!:) Thanks for posting HS.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

you do know that totally different game right? different graphics engine. different FM, different DM.

I'm sorry Mastiff, as much as I like you. But what a pathetic reply.

Kodoss is like a walking encyclopedia as far as German types go, and he definitely has more knowledge than you and most people on these subjects.

~S~

[Mastiff]

I'm sorry Mastiff, as much as I like you. But what a pathetic reply.

Kodoss is like a walking encyclopedia as far as German types go, and he definitely has more knowledge than you and most people on these subjects.

~S~

Then he needs to apply for the job.. or shut the hell up about it.. I'm tired of this is wrong or that is wrong, make your own thread about it. don't do it in mine..

matter of fact I'll stop posting in here.. and take all the videos down and delete them. So much for, I was going to start doing CLOD 4.2 videos if that is ever was going to see the light of day.. :P:stunned:

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Then he needs to apply for the job.. or shut the hell up about it.. I'm tired of this is wrong or that is wrong, make your own thread about it. don't do it in mine..

matter of fact I'll stop posting in here.. and take all the videos down and delete them. So much for, I was going to start doing CLOD 4.2 videos if that is ever was going to see the light of day.. :P:stunned:

He never stated that.

He stated that it was wrong in Clod and because the models were from its sequel they also had imported those errors into BoS

And yes, it will see the light of day, but we are not going to release something without thorough testing. I'm sorry that you wont be making any more videos as I quite enjoyed them, but I'm sure if you don't, plenty others will.

[Kodoss]

Looks like I stepped on a landmine...

@Mastiff, if I have in any way hurt your feelings I'm truly sorry.
It wasn't my intention to make a what's wrong theat or anything like this or that is better in another game post.

:salute:

[LuseKofte]

I promised myself not to post in here no more :wf::wf::wf::wf::wf:

please reconsider Mastiff, these game vs game discussions are only dividing a community and we can not afford it.
Many times in this section I feel kind of in a stigma, like people call me stupid for genuinely liking this game. And the effort made to get other disliking it is suspicious.

But it does not help, it just hurt a already damaged fragile society, for the name of this community , do not delete anything and keep in mind there are people that actually is very experienced and just as much simpilots that like this game and the word used in some of these topics are down right disrespect less and would have caused sanctions if used in all other sections here.

This is hopefully my last defense speech in this section, I urge those not interested in this game just to ignore it

[DUI]

I'm tired of this is wrong or that is wrong, make your own thread about it. don't do it in mine..

If a thread even can belong to someone it was/is Headshot's one who started it. :coolio:

The way I see it: In this thread you saw BoS enemies where there where none. If someone states (obviously based on a decent knowledge) that a bomb drop order is modelled incorrectly and that the naming of the planes is incorrect in the current state of the game, in my opinion it is far off from talking BoS down. I thought that is exactly what an alpha is for - people trying to find bugs so that the developers can correct them (if they want to).

P.S. Nice video with good editing and music.

[Old_Canuck]

.... I urge those not interested in this game just to ignore it

Have done so - successfully to this point. But this is such great comedy or drama or ... something.

[ATAG_Bliss]

The big difference is it seems like many seem to insult others if they point out problems. That's the true problem of it all. The other thing is how people's opinions of what problems matters is very different.

Some people don't care that the flight model doesn't fly historically; roll rates, speeds, AOA, stalls etc. I think this is one very important aspect of a flight sim you can't throw under the rug. Again, this is my opinion. It's quite clear that others don't really care about that sort of thing. The same can be said for systems modeling and virtually every other component of a sim.

But to throw a hissy fit because people care about the FM, systems modeling or anything else, and call it "bringing BoS down" is laughable. Every single day there's someone posting about flying through trees in Clod. Are those people attacked? No. And it's because, to many, the important aspects of the flight sim work pretty good. FM,DM, game engine ability, MP, mission building etc.

So it's all in perspective. And once you played ROF and got to know how many ridiculous FMs there are currently, you'll soon realize why many people are trying to get them fixed in BoS. Because they are not about to be fixed anytime soon in ROF. So the people adamantly defending the Devs of BoS either haven't played ROF or been part of that community or are perfectly fine with the FM or other issues. That doesn't mean other people won't be and they can sure as hell speak their opinion here. The same thing that was done for FM of clod at 1c for 1000s of pages.

[ChiefRedCloud]

I kind of found this thread interesting till everyone got mad at each other. Oh well ..... http://imageshack.com/a/img194/8633/7aa.gif

[Chivas]

Very few people would know, notice, or care what the drop sequence of the bombs were on a 109. It didn't appear that anyone was calling BOS crap, just pointing out a very minor fault, that garnered a total over-reaction.

[LuseKofte]

Agreed and this is obviously not the site discussing BOS. I rather call it hostile environment ;)
It was not this remark that made him angry, it is the general attitude from those that not even have tried it

[Gromit]

The big difference is it seems like many seem to insult others if they point out problems. That's the true problem of it all. The other thing is how people's opinions of what problems matters is very different.

Some people don't care that the flight model doesn't fly historically; roll rates, speeds, AOA, stalls etc. I think this is one very important aspect of a flight sim you can't throw under the rug. Again, this is my opinion. It's quite clear that others don't really care about that sort of thing. The same can be said for systems modeling and virtually every other component of a sim.

But to throw a hissy fit because people care about the FM, systems modeling or anything else, and call it "bringing BoS down" is laughable. Every single day there's someone posting about flying through trees in Clod. Are those people attacked? No. And it's because, to many, the important aspects of the flight sim work pretty good. FM,DM, game engine ability, MP, mission building etc.

So it's all in perspective. And once you played ROF and got to know how many ridiculous FMs there are currently, you'll soon realize why many people are trying to get them fixed in BoS. Because they are not about to be fixed anytime soon in ROF. So the people adamantly defending the Devs of BoS either haven't played ROF or been part of that community or are perfectly fine with the FM or other issues. That doesn't mean other people won't be and they can sure as hell speak their opinion here. The same thing that was done for FM of clod at 1c for 1000s of pages.

100% agree, this section is not called "tell us how great BOS is", it's a discussion forum to discuss what you like/dislike/think looks cool/think looks naff whatever!

BoS is advertised through video releases, from those videos you either say "I like the look of that" and part with your cash , or you say "that doesn't appeal to me" and keep your cash, either way discussion is about voicing different opinions, whether some people like it or not, everyone is entitled to their view, just because you don't agree doesn't mean you have a tantrum!

[LuseKofte]

No it is more to show in my opinion an arrogant attitude towards it

[ATAG_Endless]

Don't you guys understand there will NEVER !!!!!! be a game or sim where everybody approves NEVER
just enjoy each game /sim for what they are some people have given BOS a slamming and they haven't even played it

People like us should be behind this because if this fails there will most likely not be another ww2 sim in a long time

When was the last time you saw a new sim on a games shop new release stand ?
Have you ever thought this sim will actually bring new people to clod ???
If they buy bos they will most likely want to fly more and google tactics and videos witch they will defiantly come across a CLOD VIDEO and want to learn more about more sims an try them out

Far out some of you are acting just the same as when clod got released what would half you guys think if team fusion never took up the challenge ??? everybody would probably be praising BOS .
Come on guys just be happy the fact that there is a new sim comming out

[GERMANWOLF]

:) nice

[Wulf]

Well, there's negativity and then there's constructive criticism. If Kodoss has raised the incorrect bomb release sequence over on the BoS Forum then fair enough. That would be a useful thing to do in the circumstances because it would give the developers the opportunity to correct the issue. But mentioning it over here, IMO, is about as useful as someone pointing out CloD deficiencies over on the BoS Forum even though that person is well aware that TF is in the process of polishing the game. And I'm not even suggesting Kodoss is deliberately trying to smear the the new game but I do think these sort of niggles, as others have mentioned, have the potential to generate suspicion and further divide the community.

[GERMANWOLF]

:)

[Tycoon]

The big difference is it seems like many seem to insult others if they point out problems. That's the true problem of it all. The other thing is how people's opinions of what problems matters is very different.

Some people don't care that the flight model doesn't fly historically; roll rates, speeds, AOA, stalls etc. I think this is one very important aspect of a flight sim you can't throw under the rug. Again, this is my opinion. It's quite clear that others don't really care about that sort of thing. The same can be said for systems modeling and virtually every other component of a sim.

But to throw a hissy fit because people care about the FM, systems modeling or anything else, and call it "bringing BoS down" is laughable. Every single day there's someone posting about flying through trees in Clod. Are those people attacked? No. And it's because, to many, the important aspects of the flight sim work pretty good. FM,DM, game engine ability, MP, mission building etc.

So it's all in perspective. And once you played ROF and got to know how many ridiculous FMs there are currently, you'll soon realize why many people are trying to get them fixed in BoS. Because they are not about to be fixed anytime soon in ROF. So the people adamantly defending the Devs of BoS either haven't played ROF or been part of that community or are perfectly fine with the FM or other issues. That doesn't mean other people won't be and they can sure as hell speak their opinion here. The same thing that was done for FM of clod at 1c for 1000s of pages.

Bliss have you actually played ROF? A lot? You are right about there being issues with the fm, but in many aspects the fm is superb. Its the sim that got me in to all the others, COD, DCS, you name it. I know for some strange reason this will fall on deaf ears but if anything BOS WILL i say again WILL draw people to COD.

[Ohms]

Bliss have you actually played ROF? A lot? You are right about there being issues with the fm, but in many aspects the fm is superb. Its the sim that got me in to all the others, COD, DCS, you name it. I know for some strange reason this will fall on deaf ears but if anything BOS WILL i say again WILL draw people to COD.

Pretty sure he was a Beta tester and ran a server for some years.

[dburne]

Then he needs to apply for the job.. or shut the hell up about it.. I'm tired of this is wrong or that is wrong, make your own thread about it. don't do it in mine..

matter of fact I'll stop posting in here.. and take all the videos down and delete them. So much for, I was going to start doing CLOD 4.2 videos if that is ever was going to see the light of day.. :P:stunned:

Sorry Mastiff, you are a bit off base on this one. I normally don't get involved in replying to things such as this, but this one got my attention.
I have no axe to grind either way, I fly and very much enjoy Cliffs TF 4.0, and can't wait for 4.2 - which I have no doubt will be out sooner , rather than later...
I also have BOS ( early access Premium Edition), which I fly and enjoy as well - and am fairly active over on their forums also.

But - technically this was not " your thread", as you were not the OP. The reply that upset you was not done to your OP.
I also did not see anything wrong with him pointing out the incorrect drop order either.

Your call on whether to leave, I think you are just somewhat sensitive on the whole BOS thing for whatever reason. I would hate not to see your videos here, but I will see them there - and as mentioned plenty other talented video guys in here will undoubtedly be posting as well.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Bliss have you actually played ROF? A lot? You are right about there being issues with the fm, but in many aspects the fm is superb. Its the sim that got me in to all the others, COD, DCS, you name it. I know for some strange reason this will fall on deaf ears but if anything BOS WILL i say again WILL draw people to COD.

I'll let Bliss explain more if he wants too.

But yes ohmie is right, Bliss was part of the beta team, and a RoF squadron and has extensive knowledge of the subject

[Tycoon]

I'll let Bliss explain more if he wants too.

But yes ohmie is right, Bliss was part of the beta team, and a RoF squadron and has extensive knowledge of the subject

Sorry didn't know, do you still play bliss?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Bliss have you actually played ROF? A lot? You are right about there being issues with the fm, but in many aspects the fm is superb. Its the sim that got me in to all the others, COD, DCS, you name it. I know for some strange reason this will fall on deaf ears but if anything BOS WILL i say again WILL draw people to COD.

I played ROF when it released for a few years. I started the syndicate server (back when people used to actually play there). Yes, I was a beta tester, so was a whole bunch of people that also left.

Essentially I worked to try to grow the sim, to make it more accurate, and more importantly, grow the MP side of the game. As what has shown with the old IL2, the online community is a good judge of longevity. So back in those days we had a few hundred online during some peak times, and it was fairly popular. But the biggest issues remained. You simply could not have many people online at the same time. The master browser would not take much over 50 people, and this was making sure that you had around 100 static objects and no AI.

So you can imagine the only thing that was left for Bombers, was a plane equipped with bombs and nothing to bomb, fighters simply met in the middle and duked it out etc. That is why the most popular server for ROF revolves around a map with airspawns and planes 1km apart in an "airquake" type atmosphere. The game engine simply does not allow for many objects or players on a server.

For example, here's a simple map of what you can do in IL2 (same with Clod) that is full of 1000's of objects to build and create at your desire. This is the type of stuff that keeps missions/scenarios interesting. So ROF is basically dead online now because that ability hasn't changed at all. It's also why, I fear, BOS will be releasing the online/Mission Editor thing at the last part of the game because once the old IL2 hands start trying to make a mission like they are used to for the old game or for Clod, they are going to be very disappointed.

Essentially, you cannot do this stuff in ROF. And that is the core of making MP missions/immersion, let alone player count etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3opv_Ez-P_A

And this is just one example of 1000's of videos available showing this sort of thing for IL2/Clod etc., but you won't find a single one for ROF, because it won't do it. Again, this is important to me. I'm sure there are people perfectly fine playing in a baron wasteland with absolutely nothing going on etc., but alot of the MP guys will get bored with it. I also see all these comments from people that haven't been around ROF MP at all, or for very long, saying how big the BOS community online will be, but as shown with ROF, it's gotta have the ability to be big in the 1st place or just like ROF, it will dwindle down to nothing. I know the reasons it died out online, and it's because of the stuff I talk about that anyone could spend 10 minutes testing and doing for themselves. But then again, WT is pretty popular. So I also believe the hard core sim crowd is really small.

So the resources we, as beta testers wanted to see weren't spent on improvement, we merely tested new products the dev teams wanted to sell to get more money. It was bad enough when they started selling the pistols, scarves, and cockpit gauges such as the fuel gauge/compass etc., the final straw for me was once they started selling weapon packs for the planes without actually making the planes go the correct speed in the 1st place. So we found out, 1st hand, accuracy is not the number 1 priority of the team. And as a hardcore flight simmer, that's what I really like seeing.

So to answer your other question, the only time I really play it anymore (ROF) is to fire it up every now and then to see if we can add any more objects etc. I have a test mission that has 100 objects in it within 100 feet. One day it might load without the server crashing. Then I know they are making progress, on to me, one of the most important aspects of mission creation, MP, etc., for immersion. But thus far, a very simple mission in IL2/Clod terms will crash a ROF server. That's just not acceptable to the online crowd. And again, shows it in the ROF MP numbers that still play the game. 1000's have long left it. Just look at the posters on that forum with over 1000 posts and see how many of them are still posting in 2014.

Another thing is that team is very arrogant. The producer of a flight sim, in this case, Jason, self admittedly doesn't know the 1st thing about code/programming, yet has the audacity to say stuff like "No other sim models this like us, or that like us, or does this like us etc.etc.etc...," And I find comments like that very disturbing. Because there's no way he knows the 1st thing about the code for a game like DCS, just as example. So it's almost like salesman hype. And as a customer, I don't like those types of BS comments. They are the only development team that makes such arrogant comments in the 1st place. That would be like the president of UBI coming out on the 1c forum saying our game does this better than everyone else etc., for something like IL2. So internally this is also how the beta stuff went.

As beta testers our jobs are supposed to be pointing about problems, but only with that beta team did they try and hand pick the most "fanboyish" people there are. One simple look at the BoS forums, and the people in Red will attack people that call out faults or don't like something. That's just not the way to have a conversation. And I see it here on this forum with the BoS fanatics as well. Someone points out a problem with the FM, and instead of discussing that issue, a BoS fanatic will instead come in here and try to attack the poster or even these forums instead of trying to have a discussion. It's almost like they are sitting there with both barrels loaded waiting for someone to have an opinion they don't like or agree with so they can attack with both barrels the person stating that opinion. On this forum the opinions are going to be allowed, and if you like to attack people because of them, then it will probably come full circle in kind.

[Tycoon]

ROF multiplayer has been very fun for me, but i see youre points,

[vranac]

Bliss have you actually played ROF? A lot? You are right about there being issues with the fm, but in many aspects the fm is superb. Its the sim that got me in to all the others, COD, DCS, you name it. I know for some strange reason this will fall on deaf ears but if anything BOS WILL i say again WILL draw people to COD.

Tycoon, with all due respect and you're very nice guy by the way, BoS will draw some pilots from CloD. I'm pretty sure about that.

You'll shot down a aeroplane with 1 or 2 cannon shells wherever you hit. People like that in general.
You can see here a lot about concrete spits or hurries " I hit him with 6 rounds and he is still flying" .
From pilots that I never saw flying an RAF aeroplane, mostly.

I saw a lot of pilots ( most of them bomber ones) that are saying , " I just piont my nose into the target and without aiming , he is smoking".
There is some dispersion of the rounds ( probably from RoF) but I can't be sure about that , I didn't try the game.
But there was questions about DM and weapons impact and Loft said , it's final.

[Headshot]

My main objection is the fact that almost every post about BOS turns into an argument. If a person posts a VIDEO on almost any other subject he will be thank and encouraged to do it again.
If you don't like soming about BOS and you are serious about helping to change the game for the better (and not just shitting on it) then you need to go to the official BOS web site and discuss it there. Otherwise you are just upsetting people with your negativity.There is no point discussing it in length here because we are just players not developers.
Most of you guys know it's forum edicate, If not maybe there should be more discussion on what's polite conversation and what's just butting in and taking over.
Another thing is don't gang up on Mastiff for his reaction to this childish behavior,I don't blame him I feel the same way as him. Try using a bit of sympathy instead of stirring him up more.
I know I'm not making friends here but being kind and positive is much more important in my books than making friend at the cost of others.

[Remon]

My main objection is the fact that almost every post about BOS turns into an argument. If a person posts a VIDEO on almost any other subject he will be thank and encouraged to do it again.
If you don't like soming about BOS and you are serious about helping to change the game for the better (and not just shitting on it) then you need to go to the official BOS web site and discuss it there. Otherwise you are just upsetting people with your negativity.There is no point discussing it in length here because we are just players not developers.
Most of you guys know it's forum edicate, If not maybe there should be more discussion on what's polite conversation and what's just butting in and taking over.
Another thing is don't gang up on Mastiff for his reaction to this childish behavior,I don't blame him I feel the same way as him. Try using a bit of sympathy instead of stirring him up more.
I know I'm not making friends here but being kind and positive is much more important in my books than making friend at the cost of others.

The problem is that wherever you are going to post criticisms, there will be people that will tell you to go somewhere else and post them.

Btw, were there really people in the official forums that were claiming that BoS is the first sim to have exhaust flames?

[LuseKofte]

I agree, and the amount of future BOS fliers coming from here will draw people into this game in big numbers. If we only start being a little less skeptical.
Take the sim for what you like or not like, but this is a great opportunity to get more fliers to this game, we just need to drop any site politics and patronizing remarks.

[Headshot]

You totally miss the point. Bob on ATAG gets an unusual amount of criticism and most of that from people who don't own the game and others who say they will never buy the game. So whats the point of complaining if there is no point.
I had watch video others post all the time. But if I see them fly through trees I don't start up a debate on unrealistic aspects of COD. I know the faults with the sim and will discuss them if TF ask for constructive criticism. Not on the blokes post that didn't ask for criticism. It would be different if I started a thread that said what's wrong with BOS but I did not start the thread that way.
The way I see it unless attitudes change people will leave the ATAG forum just like they left the banana forum because of a few argumentative negative trouble makers people.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Except the only negativity I see are coming from the staunchest supporters of BoS. What do you expect here? This is the home of who is developing Clod now. This is a clod website, full of clod fans. We were all critical of clod and considering this is the next IL2 series supposed to be the sequel to it, people are going to be critical of it also.

It just infuriates some of you people for w/e reason that people are actually allowed to discuss faults here. And maybe they do that here because on the official forum if you don't like something you are met with the same rude rabbid retards of that forum which always ends in a thread lock. Those same people bash clod every chance they get. Just like potenz, which I remember from ROF. I knew the second he joined the forum, his whole intention was to be the same troll he was on the ROF board. It's almost like clockwork.

Let the BOS people go to the BOS forum (who'd a thought?). But for the love of god stop trying to tell others what they can and can not post. If you have a criticism that isn't an insult towards someone. That is not negativity. That is someone that wants something better FFS. And if the only thing you can do if you don't share that opinion is insult the poster then you should be the one learning how to post. It's like kindergarten in here and most definitely not from people pointing out flaws. It's from those people telling others they shouldn't be saying them.

[Wulf]

... on the official forum if you don't like something you are met with the same rude rabbid retards...


Dang; if only we could work out why they get so riled-up over there??? It's cray-seee is what it is just cray-see... :D

[LuseKofte]

I just see history goes on as it ever did. Much said in this section are not based on fact and got a very political pow. You got the same crap over at BOS site, but even smaller to non chance to do anything with it.
SO here I am as a CLOD fanboy trying to make sense of it all. I have reacted on the tone of those that want this sim to hell without even tried it.
I figure I keep my tongue straight and do nothing. Because where this is going is the same old same old retarded war against communities.
Yeah sure the critique is nessersery, but for some of those serving it, it is too obvious there is another agenda.

I am not often flying ROF , but when I do I find servers with 30 + 2 or 3 of them, it is healthier than only one here in CLOD.
I hope BOS servers are going to be popular, and I hope CLOD will start to grow even more than it has lately, because we are in a period of positive grow in CLOD world.
I think I will play more CLOD than BOS any way it goes, I find the community very friendly and BOS people is not known to me

[Headshot]

Bliss you're a real piece of work. You stir the shit then tell us who are trying to be positive that it's us at fault. You tell us that this site is for COD and for us to go to the BOS site if we want to discuss BOS. You seem to have your own fan base that follow your lead and they will now no doubt jump on me. Having a lot to do with the community doesn't give you the right to talk down to others. I get it you have bad history with the ROF team. Keep it to yourself.
Up yours mate I'm out of here.

[Archie]

I have BoS, I'm not desperately impressed so far, and can't see myself stumping up £100 every yer for the next instalment...
Spoiled by il2/CoD I suppose.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Bliss you're a real piece of work. You stir the shit then tell us who are trying to be positive that it's us at fault. You tell us that this site is for COD and for us to go to the BOS site if we want to discuss BOS. You seem to have your own fan base that follow your lead and they will now no doubt jump on me. Having a lot to do with the community doesn't give you the right to talk down to others. I get it you have bad history with the ROF team. Keep it to yourself.
Up yours mate I'm out of here.

Wrong...

The real piece of work is the one who executed a foul business move on his mate and denied us of an amazing sequel to Clod. Also as soon as it was announced people, like LukeFF who had never been active in banana were trying to usher the community over to the "new" site.
You go and get spoon fed the same old crap of how we modelled this, and technique for the "living" gun sight is exclusive to BoS, well BS! everything model related was stole from the original sequel from MG. Then if you say anything against it, even if its correct, the programmed admins come down on you like a bunch of bricks. But yet they were happy to take your 94 dollars for a beta, something that MG would have never done. All they did was provide 10 years ground breaking flight simming excellence before they were force to release a beta, shutdown and the community they created Judas'd them. Then you expect people not to be butt hurt?

[LuseKofte]

This is exactly what I was afraid of, BOS vs CLOD . Noone is gained on this old hostile community aggravating way things are going.
Noone here should need to defend anything.
Every sim I played got its ups and downs. IL 2 I deem as the best ever all-round sim, but its game engine is old and tired, but still lots of fun yet to come.
BOS and CLOD are well at best substitutes for what a new and improved IL 2 could have been.

I am really grateful for the work here that is done and allowing me to have a few hours of fun in the week, and I am sure I will be towards BOS also in the future.
Calm down, it is only a game

[ATAG_Bliss]

Bliss you're a real piece of work. You stir the shit then tell us who are trying to be positive that it's us at fault. You tell us that this site is for COD and for us to go to the BOS site if we want to discuss BOS. You seem to have your own fan base that follow your lead and they will now no doubt jump on me. Having a lot to do with the community doesn't give you the right to talk down to others. I get it you have bad history with the ROF team. Keep it to yourself.
Up yours mate I'm out of here.

And this is exactly the BS I'm talking about. Tell me how I stir the pot. Name one thing I say that's not correct. I can back up everything I say with countless examples. Again, the difference between me and you is I don't go out and try to tell people to put on rose tinted glasses for whatever game they are playing. Whatever sim I'm playing I long have criticism for, be it clod, ROF etc etc. and there were always people like you that enjoyed jumping on everyone's ass because of it. At least the people criticizing are trying to make something better. What people like you do is simply piss people off. Just like your last comment. Don't agree so you simply insult. Great job.

[ATAG_Bliss]

This is exactly what I was afraid of, BOS vs CLOD . Noone is gained on this old hostile community aggravating way things are going.
Noone here should need to defend anything.
Every sim I played got its ups and downs. IL 2 I deem as the best ever all-round sim, but its game engine is old and tired, but still lots of fun yet to come.
BOS and CLOD are well at best substitutes for what a new and improved IL 2 could have been.

I am really grateful for the work here that is done and allowing me to have a few hours of fun in the week, and I am sure I will be towards BOS also in the future.
Calm down, it is only a game

You are one of the biggest posters here trying to tell people how to post. Why are you afraid of competition? Do you own every single car ever made? Or do you buy a vehicle because it's one you can enjoy and has the features you like? Every single ounce of gaming is competing for people's free time. There is going to be competition between games of the same genre just like cars manufacturers and everything else that people have the freedom to buy or not to buy.

And just because person A doesn't like something about product X doesn't mean they are some sort bad person. It means they care about making the product better. BoS had a spotting problem/visability problem to many people. There was a 10 page thread about it, and low and behold something was done about it.

Its as if you think everyone should just sit back and say thank you for a new sim. If no one complained nothing would ever get fixed. And the moment you realize that, you realize just how important constructive criticism is in the 1st place. The last thing you do is try to attack the people wanting something better. One day you'll see this is how the entire world works.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Dang; if only we could work out why they get so riled-up over there??? It's cray-seee is what it is just cray-see... :D

But what I said is true. Even in the spotting thread you had people defending the past (now fixed) spotting system trying to attack those complaining about it. At least enough people thought that one was a problem that those posters who try to insult the guys making constructive criticism were drowned out by complaints, and viola, the Devs actually fixed the issue.

Thats is the problem. Some people think you should just accept things as they are. Some people actually want something better. There's nothing wrong with either one. The problem always comes in when complaints start getting directed at people instead of the product. That's when arguments and a whole plethora of nonsense starts. Just like this entire thread. Kodoss noticed the bomb drop is wrong so he pointed it out. But instead of discussing that issue, mastiff who is now a beta tester for BoS tries and attacks Kodoss. It's ridiculous. Mastif should've said "thanks for pointing that out. I'll make sure the Devs are aware" (what I would do as a beta tester) but instead feels the only thing he can do is go into full blown defense mode. It's all very funny and sad at the same time, because it happens over and over again. But it also shows people's agendas.

[Tvrdi]

But what I said is true. Even in the spotting thread you had people defending the past (now fixed) spotting system trying to attack those complaining about it. At least enough people thought that one was a problem that those posters who try to insult the guys making constructive criticism were drowned out by complaints, and viola, the Devs actually fixed the issue.

Thats is the problem. Some people think you should just accept things as they are. Some people actually want something better. There's nothing wrong with either one. The problem always comes in when complaints start getting directed at people instead of the product. That's when arguments and a whole plethora of nonsense starts. Just like this entire thread. Kodoss noticed the bomb drop is wrong so he pointed it out. But instead of discussing that issue, mastiff who is now a beta tester for BoS tries and attacks Kodoss. It's ridiculous. Mastif should've said "thanks for pointing that out. I'll make sure the Devs are aware" (what I would do as a beta tester) but instead feels the only thing he can do is go into full blown defense mode. It's all very funny and sad at the same time, because it happens over and over again. But it also shows people's agendas.

777 expelled all the "critic" (btw constructive critic) ppl from their ROF beta team...Now they have yes ppl and HTF that will suppose to end up...I ask you all...

[t4trouble]

Except the only negativity I see are coming from the staunchest supporters of BoS. What do you expect here? This is the home of who is developing Clod now. This is a clod website, full of clod fans. We were all critical of clod and considering this is the next IL2 series supposed to be the sequel to it, people are going to be critical of it also.

It just infuriates some of you people for w/e reason that people are actually allowed to discuss faults here. And maybe they do that here because on the official forum if you don't like something you are met with the same rude rabbid retards of that forum which always ends in a thread lock. Those same people bash clod every chance they get. Just like potenz, which I remember from ROF. I knew the second he joined the forum, his whole intention was to be the same troll he was on the ROF board. It's almost like clockwork.

Let the BOS people go to the BOS forum (who'd a thought?). But for the love of god stop trying to tell others what they can and can not post. If you have a criticism that isn't an insult towards someone. That is not negativity. That is someone that wants something better FFS. And if the only thing you can do if you don't share that opinion is insult the poster then you should be the one learning how to post. It's like kindergarten in here and most definitely not from people pointing out flaws. It's from those people telling others they shouldn't be saying them.

+1

Its kinda weird.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I think it just goes to show how liberal and free this community is when you can tell an Admin were to go and he doesn't ban you.

And that's what makes this place unique, everyone is entitled to their opinion whether others like it or not. Some people here like BoS, others don't and others are sat on the fence waiting to see how it goes. It doesn't matter what your view is, or how heated the debate gets, everyone is welcome here to express themselves within obvious reason.

:salute:

[Karaya]

Bliss have you actually played ROF? A lot? You are right about there being issues with the fm, but in many aspects the fm is superb. Its the sim that got me in to all the others, COD, DCS, you name it. I know for some strange reason this will fall on deaf ears but if anything BOS WILL i say again WILL draw people to COD.

The basic modelling of flight is excellent in RoF, thats without a doubt. I personally like the dynamic nature & feel of RoFs flight and damage modelling a lot. The individual flight models for the various aircraft however range from "good" to "travesty". And the fact that some of the bread and butter types (*cough* Albatros *cough*) are very poorly represented makes many historical matchups next to useless. Also the fact that these issues have been brought up time and time again without any response other than "no fix any time soon" does not instill faith. I very sincerely hope that 777 will put more effort into getting the performances right first try this time around or at least show more interest in seeing them fixed as we move on.

I have no negative feelings towards BoS, the more flight sims the better but atm I am still somewhat sceptical...

BTW I own all content there is for RoF

[LuseKofte]

You are plain wrong, this section is for people mostly those not tried it yet talking very hateful and want this sim to go down the drain. I am sorry for my many posting here. I will stop it asap.
You Bliss have many times over told us you personally do not like the people behind it. And the critique is mostly based around those feelings and not the sim. If you read the post I mean you will see there is way beyond the actual sim.
You can of course run all those you do not like the posting out of here, it is your Site.
One of the reasons I have posted so many times is because you Bliss does not have a diplomatic mindset, together with a lot of posters here you think I like every fucking thing about BOS and hate CLOD.
This is not true at all, I have tried to say that there are no fucking reason to divide the community more than it is. I give a rat ass if you and your fellow fanboys like BOS or not. But you do spend your time treating that game, witch isn't more developed than 39 % the same way as most people did and do towards CLOD.

And from now on I will follow your advise about not posting in this section again. It really serve no other purpose than your propaganda against it.

But again I am not going in anger as a couple earlier did. I rather wait for a ban or something

[Revvin]

It does seem a bit pointless having this forum for BoS as just about every bit of news is followed by a slew of negativity and barbed comments

[ATAG_Bliss]

You are plain wrong, this section is for people mostly those not tried it yet talking very hateful and want this sim to go down the drain. I am sorry for my many posting here. I will stop it asap.
You Bliss have many times over told us you personally do not like the people behind it. And the critique is mostly based around those feelings and not the sim. If you read the post I mean you will see there is way beyond the actual sim.
You can of course run all those you do not like the posting out of here, it is your Site.
One of the reasons I have posted so many times is because you Bliss does not have a diplomatic mindset, together with a lot of posters here you think I like every fucking thing about BOS and hate CLOD.
This is not true at all, I have tried to say that there are no fucking reason to divide the community more than it is. I give a rat ass if you and your fellow fanboys like BOS or not. But you do spend your time treating that game, witch isn't more developed than 39 % the same way as most people did and do towards CLOD.

And from now on I will follow your advise about not posting in this section again. It really serve no other purpose than your propaganda against it.

But again I am not going in anger as a couple earlier did. I rather wait for a ban or something

And yet again you try to insult the person. If you don't like that people criticize products fine. But don't insult people and make up BS about them because they do so. You are one of the biggest reasons the BoS section is as bad as it is.

You want to see how well a fault with clod is addressed on this forum? Go to the radiator thread where there is a lengthy discussion on that subject. You won't see a single person yelling at the OP or saying how he is hurting/bashing clod because he thinks something is wrong or because he thinks there is a problem with clod. Yet you go to this section and raise holy hell if someone points out a flaw in BoS. It's people like you that have made this section of the forums what it is.

[Mastiff]

My whole contention on the post was it was way off OP.. Never mind if it was my OP or not. if OT.. it will be moved warned or deleted? That's why I said; "if this is wrong and that is wrong, go make it in another thread". But As I can see there is no rules for thread post in ATAG..

Which is a good thing, I guess as long as its respected by the social norms, it can be said in here... No censorship in ATAG..

So I came off a bit harsh at Kodoss; "sorry Kodoss" I get frustrated with this, he said, she said crap; after a 16 hour shift.. lol, I need to sleep before I start posting stuff. any way your right about the drop salvo thing and yes it has been reported.. you can rest assured, there are guys on the test team that are very critical about the 109s intricacies.

[Tvrdi]

there are guys on the test team that are very critical about the 109s intricacies.
We will see how long you will last. Dolan and me got nailed pretty soon (MiG and chilli just silented) and that is not from open beta but core beta team. And if, for some reason, you wont be expelled, then Im not sure your word will be taken into acount. I hope Im wrong. I too have some hopes for BOS (bought in preorder) but for FM I dont have any hopes.. Unfortunately.

[ZG15_robtek]

My whole contention on the post was it was way off OP.. Never mind if it was my OP or not. if OT.. it will be moved warned or deleted? That's why I said; "if this is wrong and that is wrong, go make it in another thread". But As I can see there is no rules for thread post in ATAG..

Which is a good thing, I guess as long as its respected by the social norms, it can be said in here... No censorship in ATAG..

So I came off a bit harsh at Kodoss; "sorry Kodoss" I get frustrated with this, he said, she said crap; after a 16 hour shift.. lol, I need to sleep before I start posting stuff. any way your right about the drop salvo thing and yes it has been reported.. you can rest assured, there are guys on the test team that are very critical about the 109s intricacies.

Now, thats the way to do it!!!

Big Thumbs up to you, Mastiff

[ATAG_Slipstream]

My whole contention on the post was it was way off OP.. Never mind if it was my OP or not. if OT.. it will be moved warned or deleted? That's why I said; "if this is wrong and that is wrong, go make it in another thread". But As I can see there is no rules for thread post in ATAG..

Which is a good thing, I guess as long as its respected by the social norms, it can be said in here... No censorship in ATAG..

So I came off a bit harsh at Kodoss; "sorry Kodoss" I get frustrated with this, he said, she said crap; after a 16 hour shift.. lol, I need to sleep before I start posting stuff. any way your right about the drop salvo thing and yes it has been reported.. you can rest assured, there are guys on the test team that are very critical about the 109s intricacies.

Does this mean we will get to enjoy some more of your videos Mastiff? :thumbsup:

:salute:

[ATAG_Lolsav]

I tought hard before deciding to post in this thread, since i dont own BOS. But what i am about to post is about individuals, not the game.

@Bliss and Jaeger (LuseKofte)

Bliss, my friend, while i understand all the technichal reasons you hold about how the game is beeing developed and your reasonable doubts about it i see no reason to a Admin go that harsh towards a user like Jaeger who undoubtly loves the game and has a passion for sim´s. It was, as a admin, way out of the line. I call it a outburst who will do more harm than good.

Jaeger, my fellow simmer, i can understand Bliss outburst because you are indeed testifying in many posts that you feel there is a bad will on this forum towards BOS. You kept on repeating that if you dig on your own posts. We all have read it. Im not saying you are not intitle to think that way, im saying its like reading something and at the end of evry sentence you will always say "i like blue but i know evryone else likes green, but i like blue. There´s a bad will against blue, but i like green. In the end i like blue". Its repetitve my friend. We all took the point.

@Tvrdi you are also constantly putting doubts and doubts and doubts. Again.. free to post them, but like Jaeger posts it bounces against you, because you only point towards the bad parts. Gets tiring... sorry, its how i perceive.

@Mastiff, pleased to see you can retract from a outburst. Kodoss was well intended.

Now i hope you guys think twice before posting. Sorry if i do seem to be the "moral king", but its not about that. Its about respecting a fellow member of the community.

[LuseKofte]

Removed: Because I have reviewed my post in this section and in some ways you are right in your verdict Bliss.
Therefor I apologize

[LuseKofte]

After reviewing my post in this section I can see that I have grown more and more militant against criticism toward BOS. In many ways I have not change opinion, but I realize that I have not allowed other their opinion. I have grown blind in frustration of what I think opinions not entirely without politics.
Anyway, my conduct and in the heat not been able to see myself blindly getting carried away.

First I want to apologize to wulf witch I attacked some weeks ago, without any reasons what so ever, I cannot remember what I got upset about.
I will in some extend apologize to Grommit for the tone and I like to say language barrier that made some answers a bit hard, the same goes to Bliss.

I do not agree in all your opinions, but I do see now that my tolerance toward them was out of order.
I apologize for the noise all this has caused in this site and I think that is it.

Best Regards

LuseKofte

[Gromit]

After reviewing my post in this section I can see that I have grown more and more militant against criticism toward BOS. In many ways I have not change opinion, but I realize that I have not allowed other their opinion. I have grown blind in frustration of what I think opinions not entirely without politics.
Anyway, my conduct and in the heat not been able to see myself blindly getting carried away.

First I want to apologize to wulf witch I attacked some weeks ago, without any reasons what so ever, I cannot remember what I got upset about.
I will in some extend apologize to Grommit for the tone and I like to say language barrier that made some answers a bit hard, the same goes to Bliss.

I do not agree in all your opinions, but I do see now that my tolerance toward them was out of order.
I apologize for the noise all this has caused in this site and I think that is it.

Best Regards

LuseKofte

No worries mate, no offense taken :salute:

[Wulf]

After reviewing my post in this section I can see that I have grown more and more militant against criticism toward BOS. In many ways I have not change opinion, but I realize that I have not allowed other their opinion. I have grown blind in frustration of what I think opinions not entirely without politics.
Anyway, my conduct and in the heat not been able to see myself blindly getting carried away.

First I want to apologize to wulf witch I attacked some weeks ago, without any reasons what so ever, I cannot remember what I got upset about.
I will in some extend apologize to Grommit for the tone and I like to say language barrier that made some answers a bit hard, the same goes to Bliss.

I do not agree in all your opinions, but I do see now that my tolerance toward them was out of order.
I apologize for the noise all this has caused in this site and I think that is it.

Best Regards

LuseKofte

I think I remember the post in question. It was just a misunderstanding as I recall. In any event I didn't take it personally and as far as I'm concerned no apology is required. However I appreciate it nevertheless.

The Northern European Winter can be a cruel mistress - I'm told :D

[nacy]

Je m'excuse aussi d'avoir rien dit,BOS peut pas faire de miracle quand même avec DirectX9.0...
7642

[LuseKofte]

Thanks for the understanding