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Jugdriver
Dec-07-2011, 23:41
Let me start off by saying I like the concept of having more AI aircraft and low flying AI aircraft, but tonight on the server I had a lot of dips down into single digit frame rates around Calais which I have never had. Of course there were 8 to 10 AI aircraft around, a few human piloted aircraft and flack so there was a lot of activity but it did bring my game to a crawl.

I hope you guys consider reducing the amount of low flying aircraft or maybe spreading them out a bit.

Still love the server, Thanks Guys

JD
AKA_MattE

ATAG_WatchMan
Dec-08-2011, 02:28
Thanks for your input Jug. As more time goes by we'll make adjustments for the ai flights just give it awhile to settle in.


Thanks Again.
ATAG_WatchMan.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-08-2011, 05:22
Guys, I posted it at the 1c forum but here it is again:

I had the same problem, dogfighting low (which I rarely do) above that seaside town near Manston with many planes around used to drop my fps down to 18 and get me a rapid increase of the amount of memory used, leading eventually to CTD :sad!:

With these settings below my fps remain stable 60fps and no less than 40fps when low attacking all those beaufighters patrolling around the airport :Grin:
(just ot avoid missinderstandings, I never strafe the poor sods which try to take off - even if they are in SpitII...)
I have not noticed any substantial degradation of the graphics quality (except for the lack of grass which I find miserable during take off and land :no) but my field of view has not changed, I can still recognise targets at 20Km distance (at optimal conditions) and I can fly now for 2 hours (three missions) without any CTD :TYTY!:

I run single (no-sli) GTX570 1,3Gb VRAM (the SLI gives me more 90fps but less smooth game).

Below my settings, if it is of help to anyone - I ma sure that there is more room for experimentation but for me it was one try - one winner so I did not bother to test further...
=> I mean the settings except the resolution...
http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/No_Leak.jpg



Many thanks for the ATAG server guys, your server and REPKA'S gave a whole meaning to the IL2 online community :TYTY!: :dthumb:


PS. Somebody could perhaps "tone down" a bit the expertise level of those Defiant gunners, this is a "one shot - one pilot kill" snipper action :no

ATAG_WatchMan
Dec-08-2011, 07:21
Yep, will do guys.

Thanks Again:Grin:

ATAG_WatchMan.

Jugdriver
Dec-08-2011, 11:59
Yeah GRAthos, I really have not had too many issues with my settings with the exception of the slowdowns around Hawkinge when it is really busy and that seems to have smoothed out since I did the reinstall of the game. What I am experiencing is major FPS drop due to the number of AI aircraft in the area low. Last night the Calais area looked like Chicago O'Hare airport there was so much traffic.

I just wanted to give the ATAG guys a heads up to what I experienced last night flying, I appreciate the response WatchMan, I know it is a constant work in progress.

Thanks
JD
AKA_MattE

shrivey
Dec-08-2011, 14:44
Hi all, today we had 21 allied ai ac over manston with 2 109's straffing, the allied AI didn't engage the 109's, also the stuttering and lag was tremendous at this stage.
regards Shrivey

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-08-2011, 15:29
Thank you, gentlemen, for your comments.

@Shrivey, Watchman and I had a lengthy discussion on TS after you and I spoke where we examined in detail your observations this afternoon, plus your concerns. Work in Progress!

Appreciate everyone's comments. There will be ongoing changes and tweaking, so keep letting us know what works and what doesn't. We want to make the ATAG server a satisfying experience for Red and Blue alike!

shrivey
Dec-08-2011, 15:53
Great stuff guys, thanks to you all.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-08-2011, 16:44
Hi all, today we had 21 allied ai ac over manston with 2 109's straffing, the allied AI didn't engage the 109's,

I am afraid they fixed that...big ways :huh:

http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/This_is_War.jpg

:sad!::sad!:
312

This is war!
Now I will also start vulching because I can not distinguish what is a Spit AI and what is a player trying to gain alt...;)

~S~

ATAG_Snapper replies:


It's good to see that the Spit AI were doing their job (in this instance, anyway). The Red fliers are reporting equally hot receptions if they dare intrude at low altitude over Blue airfields.

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-08-2011, 17:59
Let me start off by saying I like the concept of having more AI aircraft and low flying AI aircraft, but tonight on the server I had a lot of dips down into single digit frame rates around Calais which I have never had. Of course there were 8 to 10 AI aircraft around, a few human piloted aircraft and flack so there was a lot of activity but it did bring my game to a crawl.

I hope you guys consider reducing the amount of low flying aircraft or maybe spreading them out a bit.

Still love the server, Thanks Guys

JD
AKA_MattE

Hey Matt - Thanks for the heads up. Watchman's been having a go at some of the additional AI. Perhaps they are building up?

Will give it a look over ASAP.

Thanks!

MK.Mr.X
Dec-08-2011, 21:00
Hi all!
What have you done with the server? Why?
Because the server is red? If you do not like, that kills you E4, then remove it
Why do you fly Spit2? It's a plane with the wrong FM.
Or do you think he will always be so? LOL
What did you learn flying on Spit2? What do you feel when you win BF-109?
I'll tell you: No you do not learn anything!, And will be removed when Spit2, you will find yourself noob.
But the blue pilot, quite the contrary.
The victory over Spit2, feels dignified and proud! When knock him Spit2, no regrets, because Spit2 uber.
I fly the red 2 weeks.
I flew to explore these machines and how to confront them on BF-109.
It is like the Hurrikeyn. A worthy opponent.
I flew with my friends and knocked down a lot. And do not cry when we were shot down.
There is a video where I'm flying to the aid of his friend in the center proliva. He fought three BF-109.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FqMyBw4g94
I had time, the enemy was defeated, but a friend of mine also fell, tearing away into a tailspin, very sorry ..
Never flew on Sit2, it is humiliating for me.

AI!
Remove this squalor, they spoil the whole interest in the game.
Why should I fight with bots? I am offline?
My suggestion:
Remove Spit2, E4, AI.
Thank you!

ATAG_WatchMan
Dec-08-2011, 22:47
Okay all after some testing and discussion we decided to pull the ai fighter cover from the mission. Based on comments and input from people concerning frame rates and overall gameplay it's best to keep it out for now.



Thanks for helping us out.:thumbsup:

ATAG_WatchMan.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-09-2011, 04:55
{I hope I will not be beaten up for this post...}

I had no trouble with the fighter cover. Actually it was nice, more targets for practice.

I spend a few hours yesterday on your server.
For one moment I thought you need to add a PG15 warning for the foul language I saw in the chat :D (no worries, I am way over 18 myself) between some Red and some Blue.

I also noticed one specific Blue player who vulched at least 50 SpitII yesterday which I personaly find unacceptable (because I spent hours at 4000m waiting for some Spits to take off and come up, which obviously they could not).
So, I got fed up and came low 1000m over Manston in order to hunt some Defiants and Beaufighters (and my surprise was huge when on the second mission, squizing myself between two Defiants, I realised they had guns in the front [hense the screenshot!].
I have no problems even with the Spitfires defence, they stay low and they are hopefuly a good solution again the shameful merciless vulching some Blue players do {and judging by the speed of re-appearance, they exit and change aiplane by pressing Alt-F1}. Which is ridiculous.
I am still in favour of vulching-allowed as it is historically correct and realistic.

To cut the long story short, my proposal:
The Defiant gunners are very precise but they can not cover the SpitIIs from being vulched because they can not attack a target. They defend excellently if they are being attacked.
How about if you place groups of three Defiants static on the ground near the spam points?
Their turrets (and precision) should be able to defend any low flying attacker trying to strafe a SpitII warming up its engine.
And another group at the perimeter of the airstrip in order to give the SpitII a change to avoid been vulched as soon as its "wheels off ground".

Lastly, what confused me the most was:
70% of the Luftwaffe was above Manston yesterday. Me included, this was the place I could find enemy fighters, AI or the few red planes that made it up in the air.
Where was the RAF? I would be expecting them to be there too, since this was the place where the Bf109s were low and vulnerable.
But this time very few Hurricanes were flying defencive perimeter to allow the SpitIIs take off.
Two Blenheims were practicing ship bombing, some Hurris/Spits were high intercepting bombers, and the rest I do not know what they did bcause I spent hours flying trying to find some of them...


~S~

335th_GRAthos
Dec-09-2011, 05:08
MK.Mr.X what music is this at your youtube video???

MK.Mr.X
Dec-09-2011, 06:43
MK.Mr.X what music is this at your youtube video???
I do not know it without the author's name ...
335th_grathos, 9 years ago in your squad was 335th_Pegasus.
This is an excellent pilot, where he had gone???:happy

ATAG_WatchMan
Dec-09-2011, 06:56
Hi GRAthos, no worries about being beaten up concerning your posts.:Grin:

I personally won't be doing anything else mission related, after this last run I'll be focusing on the server itself and developing stats. It seemed like whatever I tried was met with complaints of one sort or another, in fact every change I've tried to make to the current mission has been retracted in some way, shape or form. So it's up to others to sort out, not me. Heck I'm a bomber guy anyways, there's better things I can do with my time and honestly it's not worth the headaches. I hope things get sorted out, but I'm fresh out of ideas, patience and time.


ATAG_WatchMan.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-09-2011, 06:56
Pegasus is well, he is a bit older now, he stopped flying three years ago (like me) when we decided that there was more to life than IL2.
He had to do a knee operation and after that it was more important to do re-habilitation (= fitness) than sitting on a chair flying. Same thing hapened to me.
He is married now so he is kept occupied otherwise...;)
He does not even have a game-PC anymore (detoxination :laugh:)

I keep contact with him and we talk every year when I visit Greece.

If you tell me your IL2 callsign I will pass him regards next time.

Probably you remember also Platon (was always with Pegasus), he was less lucky, he passed away last year in a traffic accident (motorcycle vs car) :-(

335th_GRPlaton Missing man formation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzZHtGwhTAc


~S~

MK.Mr.X
Dec-09-2011, 08:16
ATAG_WatchMan Thanks, that removed the AI!

Pegasus is well, he is a bit older now, he stopped flying three years ago (like me) when we decided that there was more to life than IL2.
It's a pity!
It was the best blue pilot project in ADW (first war)
He and your squad know me as 13SQ_Kojedub, while I was always red.
Conveyed greetings to all)))
Admin, Sorry for flooding ...

Ohms
Dec-09-2011, 09:45
Hey Watchman

Thanks for all your effort!!!!!!:clap:

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-09-2011, 09:54
~S~ All,

Just my ever so humble opinion. Was vulching done by both sides in WWII? Yes. Was it a historical component of the BoB? No.

German fighters were tasked with CLOSE escort of the bomber streams. They were not sent over to cover RAF air-fields.

The nature of some "players" have turned the server at times into a "vulch-fest". As a Red flyer I believe my primary role to be that of stopping the bombers, period. Historically Blues would be covering the bomber stream. This is rarely the case on the server.

OK, all is fair in war right? I'm not complaining about Blue this vs. Red that...it is what it is. There are some who like the historical aspect, there are those who don't and only wish to pad their stats by showing how great they are by being able to B n Z over Red airfields. Honestly, they are by definition "stat whores". If you feel the definition is offensive and it describes you...good. I respect the teamwork aspect and working as a group, I do not respect the non-historical part of the whole ordeal.

That said, I know Watchman has worked hard to find an equitable solution to the vulchfest. Honestly, I don't think there is one...


Why do you fly Spit2? It's a plane with the wrong FM.

Actually, I believe the Spit IIa is the only properly modeled FM at the moment, it's the other planes that are porked.


Remove Spit2, E4, AI.

Will that stop the vulching stat whores? I don't think so...


Never flew on Sit2, it is humiliating for me.

Why, if you've not flown it then what makes you think the FM is wrong? And why would the most historically accurate FM in the sim be humiliating instead of the other way around?


It is like the Hurrikeyn. A worthy opponent.

Is a worthy opponent someone who is just lifting off the airfield? Or still warming up his engine? Those are worthy opponents by many peoples definition here I guess. :FS:

Why not keep the server as is, but limit the fuel in the 109's to make their time over England more realistic. It's kind of a bitch to try and fight for your life and be very concerned about making it back to France. Oh yeah, the vulching stat whore doesn't care if he gets killed, he just respawns, flies low over the channel, and vulches again and again and again ad nauseum.

Maybe a time-out penalty if you receive 3 deaths? Although this penalizes the victim of the vulching stat whore as well. But might make things more realistic in that Reds will now spawn and take off from airfields further from the coast.

I just know that I enjoy most aspects of the server (when I'm able to spawn, warm up, take off...) so thank you Bliss, Watchman, ATAG, and all involved!

Sorry for the rant!:goofy:

~S~

Deacon

*Helo*
Dec-09-2011, 10:16
Question: Is it basically under equal conditions possible for a Me 109 E-4 to outclimb a Spit IIa when both planes are operated at their maximum?

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-09-2011, 10:41
Hi Helo,

I believe that, as modeled in CoD, the Spitfire IIa can outclimb the E4 at the lower altitudes (all things, such as energy states, being equal). Not sure at altitudes above 6000 m/20,000 feet.

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-09-2011, 10:43
Hi,

Not the Spit II, but I believe this remained the case vs. the E-4:


The performance of the Spitfire Mk I and the Messershmitt Bf-109E was very similar. The former possessed a better turning radius at any height and was slightly faster below 15,000 feet, but the Messerschmitt was superior in the climb and marginally faster above 20,000 feet. The Messerschmitt's Daimler-Benz DB 601A engine had the advantage of fuel injection which enabled the aircraft to bunt (push negative g at the top of a manouvre or climb) without losing power. The Merlin engine of the Spitfire had a float-type carburettor which necessitated the aircraft performing the longer manoeuvre of rolling inverted before diving to maintain positive g, thus preventing the engine from cutting out as a result of fuel starvation.

From here:

http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/spitfire/survival.htm


I have not found anything comparable for the E-4, but see this on the MkIIa:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-II.html

shrivey
Dec-09-2011, 16:21
Thanks for sorting the ai out ATAG, the server is awesome with spit 2 and e4 on it.

Learn how to fly well men and use real tactics, this way you'll survive. And stop whining about everything

Blue Blighter
Dec-09-2011, 16:24
Reds! Do you have any planes. In aircraft machine-guns. In the machine-guns bullets. If you do not like vulchers - kill them over the English Channel. I do not see problems. Do not talk here - Fight on the server. you guys are all males?

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-09-2011, 16:40
Reds! Do you have any planes. In aircraft machine-guns. In the machine-guns bullets. If you do not like vulchers - kill them over the English Channel. I do not see problems. Do not talk here - Fight on the server. you guys are all males?

You sure are an opinionated yet ignorant person...:no Your last two posts have offered little value to the discussions you've posted on.

'Tis true, ignorance is bliss ;)

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-09-2011, 16:54
Thanks for sorting the ai out ATAG, the server is awesome with spit 2 and e4 on it.

Learn how to fly well men and use real tactics, this way you'll survive. And stop whining about everything

Thanks for your kind comments re ATAG server. I agree that Bliss and Watchman are doing an awesome job.

All of us can no doubt learn to fly better and improve our tactics -- no argument there. I disagree strongly with your "stop whining" comment. Just as we heard and reacted immediately to your concern about frame rate drops due to the AI over the airfields, we want to hear of other players' concerns as well. Today I noted that one player alone logged close to 60 kills alone today - that concerns ME (and many others) and I do not characterize that as "whining". Nor did I consider your concern about the frame rate drop to be whining, although I was spawning at Manston as well and suffered no slowdowns on my system. Since you experienced problems the odds were excellent that others would, too, and your input to me via TS was the first I was aware -- so thank you again! Anything that impedes a players's enjoyment of this server -- within reason -- we want to hear about.

We are deeply concerned about the current imbalance of play due to continuous vulching that has been taking place over the past few weeks. Perhaps better tactics COULD restore the balance, so long as every player is willing to divert their all-too-rare discretionary "flying time" towards a small group of opposing players who choose to exploit the rules-free nature of the ATAG server for their own sort-sighted gratification.

I won't go on, I'm sure you understand my POV. We want to hear EVERYTHING. But if it IS whining, we'll sic you on 'em!:thumbsup:

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-09-2011, 16:59
Reds! Do you have any planes. In aircraft machine-guns. In the machine-guns bullets. If you do not like vulchers - kill them over the English Channel. I do not see problems. Do not talk here - Fight on the server. you guys are all males?

Blue Blighter, I've sent you a Personal Message. Please have the courtesy to respond.

Thank you,

ATAG_Snapper
Moderator

ATAG_JTDawg
Dec-10-2011, 13:13
ATAG members an server SALUTE!!!! While doing the best you can with what you have to work with, you have tried to keep things fair , and everything that is asked for is done in quick fashion= fighter cover ,better flak more targets etc etc. only to be shot down in flames by the next day, :eek: by 1 side or the other!!! I dont think most of the guys really understand the hours upon hours it takes to run a server or forum!!! an i know we only see about half of whats going on becouse of P.M.s (i'll bet their boxes are full daily) I think they have been more than fair,even when the shit hits the fan!!! To watchman, bliss, snapper .an others behind the the server SALUTE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!! For those who have done this we know what your going through!!! :dthumb: For those of you that say the server is biased towards red ,(atleast half of atag guys fly blue) why wouldn't they all fly red? common sence says thats not true!! some guys play fair, some dont!! an never will!! give them a atta boy instead of constint B.S, GIVE THEM A BREAK SO THEY DONT FEEL ANYTHING THEY MIGHT DO IS WRONG !!! MAYBE A TAD BIT OF RESPECT===============SOMETIMES JUST SEE HOW IT GOES BEFORE YOUR POSTS OF TOTAL B.S-------To ATAG thanks for the good times an hours of fun, an really isn't that why we play !!!!,

JG6_BigglesCDN
Dec-10-2011, 13:58
Well said Dawg!:dthumb: Big thanks again to the ATAG guys and for the rest keep it constructive. Reasoned debate and discussion is great but if you see a problem let's propose a solution too.

Cheers!

Biggles

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-10-2011, 15:34
Thanks for the kind comments, JT and Biggles. Bliss, Watchman, Striker, & Co. do all the heavy lifting and put in the hours, they let me come here and try to take all the credit. They even gave me a tin badge to put on whenever I log on here, but they won't let me call myself "Sheriff" (my choice), nor was I keen on "Resident A-Hole" (not my choice), so we agreed on Moderator. Thought I'd get a reserved-for-Snapper-only Spitfire IIa out of the deal, but nojoy on that. :no

But thank you, again. :thumbsup:

335th_GRAthos
Dec-12-2011, 16:56
Anybody remembers where the mechanic put that fire extinguisher?????
http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/Burning.jpg
314
At least I always make it back to France one way, or another (=swimming)

And after seeing that message "XXXX got penalty for leaving aircraft in flight" flashing a couple of times, I sailplaned half of the channel without engine (and a frigging Hurricane on my tail) in order to step out of my plane in France...:Grin:


Great fun guys! :dthumb:

~S~

Ohms
Dec-12-2011, 19:13
Hi Grathos
I am pretty sure you ran into myself and XE90 today.We both commented that we where up against a good 109 pilot.It was a good fight and am glad to hear you made it home,the next 109 was not so lucky as he was the pilot that got the penalty(?).Salute from me for such a good duel this is exactly what the Atag guys are aiming for.

Ohmie. Hurri pilot:dthumb:

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-12-2011, 19:21
Great screenshot, GRAthos!!!

But.......how do we know you didn't use that fire extinguisher after you landed so that your plane would warp all over the runway to dodge those vulching RAF-ers? J/K!!!:)

Robo.
Dec-13-2011, 03:30
Hi Mr.X,

I think they have introduced the AI airfield covers because of some E-4 pilots were doing some really nasty stuff on ATAG, ''pilots'' like alambash, kraggash, vit_unit, whole -=A=- squad simply flew low and minengeschossed any MkI on the ground. Mind you, this is the reason they introduced the Mk.IIa in the first place - co counter this 'smart' tactics. With Mk.I fighters, you can only watch lousy pilots vulching and getting away with it with no problem because E-4 will outrun anything. Just my experience ;)


Hi all!
What have you done with the server? Why?
Because the server is red? If you do not like, that kills you E4, then remove it

When the server is red, why is everyone sitting in a E-4. I don't mind any plane, it's the pilot in the first place anyway.


But the blue pilot, quite the contrary.
The victory over Spit2, feels dignified and proud! When knock him Spit2, no regrets, because Spit2 uber.

And what about the times before the Mk.IIa has been introduced in the numbers of 5? Sitting in a E-4, victory over Mk.I fighters feels not dignified or proud because E-4 is uber. You still seemed to enjoy that :thumbsup:

When knock him E-4 in my Mk.I, no regrets because E-4 uber. It's not the plane, it's the pilot and the comms. You know that very well so why are you asking these questions?


I fly the red 2 weeks.
I flew to explore these machines and how to confront them on BF-109.
It is like the Hurrikeyn. A worthy opponent.
I flew with my friends and knocked down a lot. And do not cry when we were shot down.

I remember that 2 weeks, you got your bottom kicked and switched back to the E-4 very quickly. Fair enough. :laugh1


Never flew on Sit2, it is humiliating for me.

Same here, I don't need the Mk.IIa, but you also don't need the E-4 with 'historically correct' minengeschoss only loadout yet you still fly it to have some extra edge. :D And that's exactly what the Mk.IIa pilots do. Fair enough ;)

You know what, Mr.X, fly the red in a Mk.I fighters when these vulchers come over on ATAG and give it a shot for longer than 2 weeks and don't give up, then you'll see and share the frustration of some red pilots on this forum.

Mind you I have no problem at all with anything, I fly red and blue, mostly Rotol Hurricane or E-3 and I never complain when I get shot down by a better pilot, Spit IIa or simply when I die badly outnumbered - I always blame myself and I always learn a lesson. I see and understand what you are trying to say, but from a fella who flies E-4 exclusively that is not really to be taken very seriously. :D That would be the same for a Mk.IIa pilot commenting on ATAG - he'd have no clue whatsoever what the other players think :D

Just my 0.02 Eurocents (lol)

335th_GRAthos
Dec-13-2011, 05:43
@Ohmie 412: Hi Ohmie, was that you and the XE90 in a Spit over the channel yesterday? S! :salute:
Thank you for your nice comments. The two big ventilation holes on my center and right window are from you, your last effort hanging on the propeller was a scare, I was not expecting a hit, I was very lucky nothing else was damaged.
I am sorry I lost sight of you (the penalty for typing the message to the other Bf109 which crossed path with me). I looked for a few minutes trying to gain visual again but no success so after a few min I left the area. It was a pity, I had been tracking the two of you since you took off from Manston ;) only to lose you typing on the chat (and had made the stupidity to fly with MeshShowLod=0 in order to test the result).
Two questions out of curioucity: Did you see my Bf109 with wheels up or down? (I stopped switching wheels to neutral) and, how did you finish that mission sortie???? Because 10min later, sailplaning towards France, I received the message of shooting down a Hurricane!!!! posted in chat, but no answer.



@ATAG_Snapper: Dammit, my secret weapon has been unveiled ;) LOL!
Just to state the fact, I have never been vulched by a Spit while on the ground, even the Spits who made low passes over me, waited until I had "wheels up" so, cudos to the gallant tactics of the Spits over our bases in France! ...and thanks to the other Bf109 pilots who occupied them low and turning!!!!




you also don't need the E-4 with 'historically correct' minengeschoss only loadout..
Just my 0.02 Eurocents (lol)
Oh God, did the EUR went down that much over the weekend!!!? :)

I am not sure I understood the "Minengeschoss" point Robo, we do not usually load only Minengeschoss rounds because you need some incendianery as well.
If you mean the modelling of the rounds, I do not have any 20mm Minengeschoss pictures to show but for reference, here is what explosive of a single 30mm Minengeschoss would do
to a Blenheim
http://fcdn.valka.cz/files/thumbs/t_mk-108_blenheim.jpg
to a Spitfire
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/469646329_dee07050e0_o.jpg
so the explosive ammo (Minengeschoss) was doing a hell of a lot of damage compared to other types of ammunition.
On the other side, you usually have to shoot at point blank range and it is very difficult to hit deflection shots in E4 using the cannons (I dogfight against Spits/Hurris using guns only, and the last shots (closer than 100m) I may use guns+cannons).



Anyway, it is a hell of a lot of fun this server! :thumbsup:

~S~

Robo.
Dec-13-2011, 06:44
Oh God, did the EUR went down that much over the weekend!!!? :)

Quite possibly :D


I am not sure I understood the "Minengeschoss" point Robo, we do not usually load only Minengeschoss rounds because you need some incendianery as well.

Not sure what you mean by 'we' as I am a blue pilot too. ;)

I mean the loadouts of most of the online pilots (red or blue) are 'unhistorical' because everyone is banging in deWilde or Minengeschoss. As for what you 'need' that might be true but from what you see online, most E-4s are packed with M-Geschoss only to make more damage. Fair enough, if the game allows it.

My point is that it's not the game or the way the aircraft are modelled. It's about us, the players. Everybody is trying to exploit it in every possible way to get the advantage. Take an E-4 packed with MGschoss, 20 percent fuel and go kill some Spits taking off and then lol into the chatline. I honestly think some people take this game (well, almost a sim) as some kind of aerial counter strike.

Some guys jetisson their canopy on a 109 to get a better view (no drag penalty lolz). Some guys don't bother to take enough fuel to come back from their vulching raid. Lolz. That's all cool, everybody flies this game for different reason and with different expectations, I am just sad to see this kind of stuff and in this context I can only laugh bitterly at the discussions about 'realism' and planeset balance and the fact that 109 is doing something better / worse than it should do.

Guys on ATAG did superb job trying to get their server playable and enjoyable for everybody and they still do - Most of the time they're wasting their time trying to counter some 'smart' tactics. But as I said, it's mostly about players and I am not naive to expect any change. I am pretty much pointing the obvious for the 'reality' whiners. ATAG is great fun but don't expect it to be anywhere close to the BoB era stuff simply because of the people visiting it.

These Russian E-4 jockeys, they have their fun because they're good and they exploit every possible way of having an advantage - fair enough. At least they don't whine when you scratch them.


If you mean the modelling of the rounds (...) On the other side, you usually have to shoot at point blank range and it is very difficult to hit deflection shots in E4 using the cannons (I dogfight against Spits/Hurris using guns only, and the last shots (closer than 100m) I may use guns+cannons).

Thanks, I know what M-Geschoss are and what they do (although comparing them to 30mm shells is a bit of a overkill) and I am OK with how they're modelled and I am OK with deflection shooting in a 109s, too. I always said it takes considerable skill to fly any a/c well, be it Hurricane or 109. Good pilot is good pilot in any plane.

edit - typnig ;)

335th_GRAthos
Dec-13-2011, 07:02
Ah ok, sorry, I thought you meant something else with "historicaly correct" in your initial post.

All you points are (unfortunately) valid of course.

Nevertheless, it is not so bad for my taste, I consider CoD a major improvement compared to IL2FB, the major reason for it is:
In IL2FB, one single MK.303 hit would transform my Bf109 into a limping elefant = chances of survival after that, nil.
So I spent years of flying learning how to avoid a single hit at all costs.

Now I have a much more realistic damage model, I can receive hits and as long as I do not receive a critical hit (engine lose power, hydraulics:wheels/flaps down, heavily wounded) my chances of disengaging a dogfight at my conditions always look good.

This is what makes CoD so far better than IL2FB (for me) and my personal opinion outweights every other (small) items which help players get advantage.

Oh, and there is one other thing that annoys me (a bit): I find myself zooming down on the back of unsuspecting Spits with my engine at idle, and they can hear me at 150m (I am not Mr.X, I am no long range shooter) :sad!:
It is OK, I will survive it, it was not different in IL2FB.... :laugh1

Happy Flying!

PS. very bad that with the EUR.....:laugh:

Ohms
Dec-13-2011, 07:31
Hi Grathos
We both made it home,XE90 got home just as his engine crapped out on landing.I don't remember seeing your gear down.We broke off and headed to Folkstone after tangling with you and tracked the second 109 that you typed too warn about us below you.

Salute Ohmie

Robo.
Dec-14-2011, 04:29
Nevertheless, it is not so bad for my taste, I consider CoD a major improvement compared to IL2FB, the major reason for it is:
In IL2FB, one single MK.303 hit would transform my Bf109 into a limping elefant = chances of survival after that, nil.
So I spent years of flying learning how to avoid a single hit at all costs.

It is a major improvement regarding both FM and DM and of course it looks much nicer, too. But as for 1946 - never had the same problem you describe. Flying a Hurricane, I find it difficult to get a single .303 hit into a 109 unless I happen to have my other 7 guns jammed. When I shoot well, it takes a longish burst to cripple the Emil. Sometimes, when he's not careful enough, a well aimed burst into the engine and canopy will do the job, but very often he escapes unharmed even after few good hits. The only way of getting close to the 109 in 1946 is a Mk.II Hurricane above 4500m. Below that, well flown Emil won't give the Hurri many chances, just like in CoD. And rightly so, I believe. Flying the 109 A LOT, I never felt the .303 were too dangerous unless I did silly stuff like TnB with Hurricanes or going headon. Of course, engine is very vulnerable, but as I see it, in CoD - the .303 is much more effective when compared to 1946 and Hurricane Mk.I has got far better chances against a Bf 109E when compared to 1946. I fly both sides a lot mind you. :Grin:


Now I have a much more realistic damage model, I can receive hits and as long as I do not receive a critical hit (engine lose power, hydraulics:wheels/flaps down, heavily wounded) my chances of disengaging a dogfight at my conditions always look good.

True, DM is more realistic in it's potential, but with many many bugs especially regarding the drag and lift penalties when damaged, it's only a beta stage. It still is the part of the game I enjoy the most (physics and ballistics especially) and I completely agree with what you said.

MK.Mr.X
Dec-14-2011, 08:13
I remember that 2 weeks, you got your bottom kicked and switched back to the E-4 very quickly. Fair enough. :laugh1
What kind of nonsense?:eek:
I Messers killed in batches at Hurrik. Concluded that the fight against it can Messer.

And what about the times before the Mk.IIa has been introduced in the numbers of 5? Sitting in a E-4, victory over Mk.I fighters feels not dignified or proud because E-4 is uber. You still seemed to enjoy that :thumbsup:

:eek:
If you do not know, know, I flew only to E1 before entered MK2.
Or can you forget?
Spit2 will be removed, I will fly to E1!
Your tone and accusations I do not like to talk to you I will not, goodbye.

ATAG_Torian
Dec-14-2011, 08:29
Just reading thru the posts here and finally I see why MrX, Molnienosny & co so
frequently crash land. They only take enuff fuel to get over the channel, do some
strafing then head back part way over the channel & belly into the water. No
penalty for it, u don't die in a belly ditch so doesn't show as a death and gets u
back into the air for your next strafing run qwiker. And I thought they were just
sloppy with their landings. D'oh, takes me a while to catch on.
Makes u feel "dignified and proud" no doubt MrX ?
Torian

335th_GRAthos
Dec-14-2011, 14:12
I do not usually talk about things that do not concern me Torian but, I think you should watch first some videos of Mr.X dogfighting and then start talking about "his strafing runs".


Sincerely,

335th_GRAthos

Ohms
Dec-14-2011, 14:57
I must admit in all my encounters with MR X it has never been on the deck always up high.Don't think i have ever seen him strafe either but could be wrong.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-14-2011, 15:32
I am sorry to the guy that had been hunting me just in front the coast of France (after having followed me all the way from the English coast (& the Wellingtons :sad!: nice pass through the Minesuchboot AAA by the way;) )
You had lost me in the sun and I was getting ready to zoom in for you but got a CTD and could not reconnect again :goofy:

ATAG guys, is there something wrong?

It looks as if STEAM kicked every surver but, also Direct Connect does not work either :sad!:

~S~

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-14-2011, 15:37
Yeah steam is in the crapper atm. And considering the IL2COD dedi server connects as a client instead of like every other steam game in MP :cussing:, we're left waiting till it comes back up to have the server work.

Trust us, babysitting the server gets old. We need dedicated server files so badly!!!

ATAG_WatchMan
Dec-14-2011, 15:38
Yep it looks like steam is having issues with all COD servers today, but as soon as they resolve it you can be sure we'll be up and running again.


S! ATAG_WatchMan.

Robo.
Dec-14-2011, 16:43
What kind of nonsense?:eek:
I Messers killed in batches at Hurrik. Concluded that the fight against it can Messer.

Calm down dude, all I know you didn't last long in the RAF, you tried Hurricanes for a week or so, but you went back to the E-4 very soon. I was actually watching your efforts as you announced it on 1c but all I've seen is your K/D went a bit downhill. You can have some success in a Hurricane if you fly it well, that's not a question. But Emil makes it much easier to kill and rtb... simple as that. :thumbsup: The Mk.Is have little chance against Emil that's not flown silly - that being said without taking cooperation in account.

:eek:

If you do not know, know, I flew only to E1 before entered MK2.
Or can you forget?
Spit2 will be removed, I will fly to E1!
Your tone and accusations I do not like to talk to you I will not, goodbye.

No, you always flew E-4 as far I remember, even before they got Mk.IIa on the server. That's fair enough as everybody wants to fly the best crate available. That's why I don't understand your attitude towards the guys that want to fly the Mk.IIa. Not a big deal, no reason to get offended as I didn't mean to hurt your feelings :laugh1 I only stated the obvious. I don't care if you fly E-1 or E-4, it's up to you.

And Torian is right, there is lots of ditching because some pilots don't bother with enough fuel. Not to blame them as it's the game giving 'kills' anyway no matter if you rtb or not.

Jugdriver
Dec-14-2011, 17:44
Yeah steam is in the crapper atm. And considering the IL2COD dedi server connects as a client instead of like every other steam game in MP :cussing:, we're left waiting till it comes back up to have the server work.

Trust us, babysitting the server gets old. We need dedicated server files so badly!!!

Whew! I thought it was a problem on my end! I was pouring over connection error info for steam, but it is just a steaming pile of steam. I really love the fact that when steam takes a dump the direct connect does not work, what BS!


JD
AKA_MattE

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-14-2011, 18:11
Well it looks like it's finally working.. What a joke!

ATAG_Torian
Dec-15-2011, 01:22
I do not usually talk about things that do not concern me Torian but, I think you should watch first some videos of Mr.X dogfighting and then start talking about "his strafing runs".
Sincerely,
335th_GRAthos

Haven't flown much on our server have u GRAthos.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-15-2011, 02:02
Haven't flown much on our server have u GRAthos.

You are so right (as always) in your conclusions Torian, I hardly have flown on your server....:roflmao:

...probably you have never seen me because I always sneak-in low on the ground so nobody can see me - that's why I only get ground kills ;)

"half-knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all" is a saying in my country.

Anyway, this discussion leads to nowhere thus equals to spam. I understood enough of your way of drawing conclusions so this will be my last post to you, you are in my ignore list from now on.

Happy flying!

~S~

MK.Mr.X
Dec-15-2011, 02:42
Just reading thru the posts here and finally I see why MrX, Molnienosny & co so
frequently crash land. They only take enuff fuel to get over the channel, do some
strafing then head back part way over the channel & belly into the water. No
penalty for it, u don't die in a belly ditch so doesn't show as a death and gets u
back into the air for your next strafing run qwiker. And I thought they were just
sloppy with their landings. D'oh, takes me a while to catch on.
Makes u feel "dignified and proud" no doubt MrX ?
Torian

Evidence in the studio!
Log of the mission, data from the server, all that can Confirm your words, in the studio
No? Then, close your mouth and wipe his tears.:cry:
Your crying already filled all the forum topics. How old are you? You're like a child, do not be ashamed of?
Give me Spit2! LOL And for what it is you? You fly on it and you die as well as on Spit1
Perhaps you need Spit2 to use his abilities, not their brains.
I always take on the BF-109, 75% of the fuel.
I plant in an emergency landing ever!, I do not want to fly back for so long, why?
This, that, Architectural project? Here we have to keep planes? If I dolechu to the base, it is still an enemy they include me, then fly back to the meaning?
If one who is willing and has a lot of time, then let fly, personally I have no desire.

Calm down dude, all I know you didn't last long in the RAF, you tried Hurricanes for a week or so, but you went back to the E-4 very soon. I was actually watching your efforts as you announced it on 1c but all I've seen is your K/D went a bit downhill. You can have some success in a Hurricane if you fly it well, that's not a question. But Emil makes it much easier to kill and rtb... simple as that. :thumbsup: The Mk.Is have little chance against Emil that's not flown silly - that being said without taking cooperation in account.

K/D went down. :laugh1
Dude, show me even one Virpi, who moved from another aircraft and for two weeks, learned to fly as an expert, shoot like an expert? It's funny is not it?
I repeat again for those who are in the tank!
I flew FOR RED TO TELL THEM OPPORTUNITIES WEAKNESSES AND STRENGTHS!

No, you always flew E-4 as far I remember, even before they got Mk.IIa on the server. That's fair enough as everybody wants to fly the best crate available. That's why I don't understand your attitude towards the guys that want to fly the Mk.IIa. Not a big deal, no reason to get offended as I didn't mean to hurt your feelings :laugh1 I only stated the obvious. I don't care if you fly E-1 or E-4, it's up to you.
Torrian Tell a friend Robo, how you got 4-5 shots to the head of my E1
Robo, you at least watched my video? Where are you saw the E4?
I have flown only on E1 and made the video, then asked me to make a video of how I shoot with E4, as these little pellets all tired. Since then, I'm flying on E4 and I like to shoot with him, tearing off the wings.

I do not care for Spit2! I can stand up for themselves on any airplane, but you?
You can not reply to this message, because I'm not going to write in foreign forums.
See you in heaven!:salute:

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-15-2011, 03:00
Cmon guys! This is enough. I think everyone has made their points here. I personally don't see a problem with the way anyone flies. This is exactly why we make it so if you are getting vulched you can move away into a further airfield to avoid it.

There's no sense in stirring the pot here. Do it with bullets on the battle field. :thumbsup:

I see everyone's point of view, but we really don't need to say some of the things we'll regret later. At Torian and Grathos - I know you both, and you're very good guys. Shake hands like men! There's no reason for you guys to at each other in this fashion!

ATAG_Torian
Dec-15-2011, 03:37
I plant in an emergency landing ever!, I do not want to fly back for so long, why?
This, that, Architectural project? Here we have to keep planes? If I dolechu to the base, it is still an enemy they include me, then fly back to the meaning?
If one who is willing and has a lot of time, then let fly, personally I have no desire.


Why? because getting your plane landed back at your base is flying it like a real
sim not an arcade game. OK I apologise for assuming u took minimal fuel but
routinely ditching your plane in an emergency landing makes u mature and me a
crybaby ??
Maybe I haven't been flying sims long enuff to see that as being a desirable
achievement.
At least u are honest about it.


Perhaps you need Spit2 to use his abilities, not their
brains.
I hope to be able to use both the Spit IIs ability and my brains as well as
the E4, the 110, the Blenheim, Hurricane, SPit Ia, Stuka, Ju88 and Hienkel and
expand my sim experience and expertise and enjoy them all and subsequent
planes as they are released. Is there a problem with that ?

@ GRAthos...Be juvenile about it if u want but my original comment was more
about their deliberate crash landings for a qwik respawn. MrX has kindly outlined
his reasoning for that as above. As for the ground strafing feeding frenzies.....
I'm sure MrX can confirm he has indulged on occasions when their comrades have
been on in force. I never said that that was all he ever did. No problem with that
now that some options to deal with it are available. I'm sorry that u feel I warrant
ignoring but that's your call.
Torian

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-15-2011, 23:18
I met Mk.MrX mid channel at around 15k, of course I didn't know it was him at the time, but once I lost visual on him due that infernal glitch where ac vanish when they shouldn't it was a lost cause against a pilot like him. It was a great instant Pilot Kill shot that he eventually got on me and I consider a fair kill! I had one opportunity, so did he.....I missed mine....he didn't!

Exceptional gunnery Mk.MrX.......S:

335th_GRAthos
Dec-16-2011, 01:54
Sorry BullSkin for shooting at you (I do not know if you saw my message on the chat window).

I had my gunsight zoomed in hitting the gunner of the Wellington (I did not remember whether I had killed him earlier or not) and your plane appeared from below, straight into my line of sight when it was too late...

~S~

PS. Lot's of great fights yesterday, great fun! :)

Robo.
Dec-16-2011, 04:11
Evidence in the studio!
Log of the mission, data from the server, all that can Confirm your words, in the studio
No? Then, close your mouth and wipe his tears.:cry:
Your crying already filled all the forum topics. How old are you? You're like a child, do not be ashamed of?

I am not crying at all, in fact I am sort of defending your tactics saying the red side needs to improve a lot. (flying in pair, shooting etc...) Perhaps you could read what I am saying better before coming with aggresive response like that :thumbsup:

You flew E-4 even before Mk.IIa but you made it sound like you switched from E-1 to E-4 because of Spitfire Mk.IIa. Which is not true. :dthumb:


Give me Spit2! LOL And for what it is you? You fly on it and you die as well as on Spit1
Perhaps you need Spit2 to use his abilities, not their brains.

You don't know me dude. If you would, you'd know I fly Hurricanes. I don't die in them too often. On ATAG, I flew the Mk.IIa exactly once to try it in a MTE. It's a rocket.


I always take on the BF-109, 75% of the fuel.
I plant in an emergency landing ever!, I do not want to fly back for so long, why?
This, that, Architectural project? Here we have to keep planes? If I dolechu to the base, it is still an enemy they include me, then fly back to the meaning?
If one who is willing and has a lot of time, then let fly, personally I have no desire.

I said some pilots don't bother to take enough fuel, I didn't mention you at all and I never said you do that, too. :goofy: I also said that it's fair enough as the server / game allows it. Same with loadouts. If you're not bothered to fly back and land on your base to finish the mission, the OK. :D I don't understand why you come over on full real server, but fair enough.


K.MK/D went down. :laugh1
Dude, show me even one Virpi, who moved from another aircraft and for two weeks, learned to fly as an expert, shoot like an expert? It's funny is not it?
I repeat again for those who are in the tank!
I flew FOR RED TO TELL THEM OPPORTUNITIES WEAKNESSES AND STRENGTHS!

I know, but your 'stats went down simply because Mk.Is are more difficult to survive against decent 109 pilots. That was a statement about the planes, not your pilot skill.

I don't mind anyone flying anything, I fly any planes myself including bombers although I am a pure fighter pilot. In 1946 too. What was your nick on virpil? ;)


Torrian Tell a friend Robo, how you got 4-5 shots to the head of my E1 Robo, you at least watched my video? Where are you saw the E4?
I have flown only on E1 and made the video, then asked me to make a video of how I shoot with E4, as these little pellets all tired. Since then, I'm flying on E4 and I like to shoot with him, tearing off the wings.

I don't mind your choice of airplane. It's up to you. All I am saying is everybody wants to fly the best crate available and you blame Mk.IIa pilots (which is not me) but you also sit in a best a/c on the blue side. Minengeschoss loaded. :thumbsup: And that's the bit I was trying to point out.


I do not care for Spit2! I can stand up for themselves on any airplane, but you?
You can not reply to this message, because I'm not going to write in foreign forums.
See you in heaven!:salute:

Yes you do care and you came over here mainly to complain about it - post No.11 in this thread. I actually enjoy flying Emils against Spits Mk.IIas and I usually win if that was the point :laugh1

If you're worried about this forums being foreign, I understand and dasvidanja.

edit* quote tags

Jugdriver
Dec-19-2011, 12:22
Wow, Talk about Hijacking a thread Thanks for reducing the amount of AI in the server, I has helped considerably with my framrates.

@ Watchman, I hope you dont feel that my issues with the AI are out of line, I appreciate the effort and everyone at ATAG that put this server up. The O'Hare airport comment was a bit much, sorry.

And now to re-hijack my own thread, Mr.X dont thump you chest too hard, your stats are inflated because you dont take the time to land your planes, that is a fact. Why tarnish your obvious skill with a lame tactic?


JD
AKA_MattE

=vit_unit=
Dec-21-2011, 16:53
Hi to all.
As I'm new here first of all I'd like to thank all ATAG team for doing work well.
I had looked through the posts here and it made me smile a lil bit. It's never ending war between red and blue sides)) I'd like to put my 50 cents here)) Robo thx that u listed me in the row of the biggest vaulchers. I have approximately 10-15 % of all my kills I would say "blocked" planes on the fields. Not too much i guess. This is the game but not the sand game and not even duel. And I think that whoever played on the blue side, most of them, has a sin of "blocking" the fields as some kind of widespread tactics. In the beginning I had opinion that if red side had plane with the best FM in the game it had to pay for that. And of course it costs too much so we've got the strongest vaulching)) So reds need to use better tactics, take off of other fields, act together ect. Is the improvement of red's tactics not positive side of blue vaulching? And by the way it's so boring without vaulchers. In other hand putting spits2 in the game u teach German pilot to fly better. I always try to go to England with the best pilots to learn something. Get positive from negative lol

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-21-2011, 17:18
Welcome to the ATAG forum, =vit_unit=! :happy

You have made some interesting points about how the Blues' tactics of "blocking" can only improve our fighting skills, act together, etc. in fact, you indeed take the boredom out of the game as we sit helpless in our planes warming up while you fearlessly strafe our static aircraft.

By the same token, I believe the Red side owes YOU a huge debt for the above. The only way I see that this debt can be repaid is by obliging the Blues to use better tactics, act together and increase YOUR skills. That's right -- you must be bored to tears making that long flight low over the water, shooting stationary or taxiing adversaries, then having to fly an additional two minutes to ditch your aircraft in the Channel to respawn and have to do the same thing over. To help you out, Spitfire IIa's should be made available at EVERY RAF airfield. Finally you'll have an adversary that can actually shoot back! You'll have an adversary that you can't outclimb, can't outdive (well you can still bunt, of course), can't outrun! Sort've like what the Red side has faced since April! Your skills, tactics, and fighting methods will improve rapidly.......and you sure won't be bored!

I like it when opposing sides truly try to help each other! :thumbsup:

Good flying!

Snapper

335th_GRAthos
Dec-21-2011, 17:46
:go:

I guess in your previous life you were a diplomat. Or speech writer for the president...

I will have to keep this text for future use, it would be a pity such talent to be wasted...

:roflmao:

I learned something today Snapper, thank you!
Actually I learned two things. The second, never enter into a dispute with/against you!!!! :Grin:

~S~


PS. And a third thing: If you are flying as you are writting, I was damn lucky I survived our last encounter :laugh:

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-21-2011, 17:47
:)

s!

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-21-2011, 18:02
Thank you for the kind words, Grathos. :)

You were as safe as in a church in your damaged 110 last weekend. I was the lucky one for not catching up to you! (Check my stats -- the numbers don't lie! LOL)

Actually, I'm a salesman in real life -- for many years selling cases of Canadian whisky to "colourful" characters in the lower parts of town. Always legal, of course.:laugh1

But I'm sure you have a saying where you live, too: "Never kid a kidder!" ;)

Respects,

Snapper

=vit_unit=
Dec-22-2011, 00:13
Welcome to the ATAG forum, =vit_unit=! :happy

You have made some interesting points about how the Blues' tactics of "blocking" can only improve our fighting skills, act together, etc. in fact, you indeed take the boredom out of the game as we sit helpless in our planes warming up while you fearlessly strafe our static aircraft.

By the same token, I believe the Red side owes YOU a huge debt for the above. The only way I see that this debt can be repaid is by obliging the Blues to use better tactics, act together and increase YOUR skills. That's right -- you must be bored to tears making that long flight low over the water, shooting stationary or taxiing adversaries, then having to fly an additional two minutes to ditch your aircraft in the Channel to respawn and have to do the same thing over. To help you out, Spitfire IIa's should be made available at EVERY RAF airfield. Finally you'll have an adversary that can actually shoot back! You'll have an adversary that you can't outclimb, can't outdive (well you can still bunt, of course), can't outrun! Sort've like what the Red side has faced since April! Your skills, tactics, and fighting methods will improve rapidly.......and you sure won't be bored!

I like it when opposing sides truly try to help each other! :thumbsup:

Good flying!

Snapper
U mentioned some kind of tactics not concerning to the most of blue pilots. To fight well against any aircraft one needs energy. How do u get it at low altitude? Even if one needs to block airfield. I don't wanna put fire in relationships of blue/red sides but I wouldn't say that reds were in so poor position relative to blues. I understand that the most of reds has evil thoughts for the blue side, but try to fight on bf against spit2 in equal conditions so bf must fight on the reds' rules. U'll have the same thoughts as well. Reds think bf is ьber, blues think spit2 is ьber (I still think that explosion engine plane can't fly like jet plane). Any plane has its plus and minus. Germans have to offend, British - defend. And vaulchers are vaulchers. We can do nothing with it. Any way this integral part of the air war is not forbidden by anyone. I just try to low tension. If u wish spits2 at any airfields let it be so, and u will learn nothing. If don't wanna take off of inland fields, that's ur problem. Cut off vaulching from rules and server will be empty. If u wish blue comes back to their fields make it interesting to one. If one wish FairPlay he should go to duel server and ect. And ect.
With best wishes. Lol
vit_unit

335th_GRAthos
Dec-22-2011, 01:19
I have to admit, I struggle to understand the mentality of some addicted vulchers.

I understand that some will say "but the airplane XXX is so much superior to mine that I can never win an engagement".
There is a saying: "if you had a fair fight then you probably didn't plan right".

In my ten years of IL2, I never saw a WWII aircraft being superior to mine as long as I had a 1500meter altitude advantage.... (many, after I lost that advantage...).
A Spit at 500m when I am at 2000m is a dead Spit, all the time. If I do not know how to shoot (and hit), it is a different problem....

Destroying an airplane while it is sitting on the ground is not an accomplishement of flying skill.
If you vulcher are such a bad pilot and you have so poor skills that you are afraid to meet an airplane in the air then probably you should not be flying airplanes at all.

If your skills are so poor but, you want to keep flying airplanes in order to become better, nothing will you learn if you shoot at enemy planes on the ground.

If you like shoting at ground targets, you can, there are many tanks and trucks near the English coast - I fly ME110 shooting ground targets when there are not enough red pilots in the server.

I do not understand the accomplishment of shooting at a plane which is not moving, if you think you are a good fighter pilot then you are cheating yourself, you are still a very, very bad pilot...

I am no angel myself, if I would be over Engand, low, and had to fly back home, with some bandits at the vicinity, I would certanly not avoid straffing the Spit/Hurri warming up its engine when passing by an enemy airbase because I know it would soon be hunting me all the way over he channel. But it is a different thing alltogether than taking off with the sole purpose of going over an enemy airbase to hit everything that is standing.


The other thing that I do not understand is that I never saw a Spt/Hurri coming over our German airbase to strafe us. Why are the red pilots no vulching????? The Spit/Hurri are the ideal planes for vulching, stay low, turn like hell, you are invincible low over the German airfields (we need three - four Bf109 to get one Spit over our bases).
So why do you need to take a Bf109 to go vulching when a red plane would make more sense???
I mean, some of them come, but then we are engaged into air battles low over France - nobody ever camped above our arfields vulching at static targets...

My post is not addressed to you vit_unit. It was nice reading your comments because it made think about some things I have seen while flying and I realised I started getting bored flying long hours without seeing any airplanes.
I do not expect an answer to my post, I also do not want to attack anyone personaly, everybody does what he thinks is right, I just fail to understand how some people think, that is all.


~S~

Ohms
Dec-22-2011, 08:01
As a strictly red pilot i will admit to strafing an enemy airfield but i have never flown to france with that as my primary purpose.Normally come high looking for bombers etc then go low if no contacts are found.This is not a smart idea as the AAA is quite intense but it can be done but you get in get out,one maybe two passes max then out or your dead.Getting home is a large part of the game for me.

Blue Blighter
Dec-22-2011, 08:47
If you vulcher are such a bad pilot and you have so poor skills that you are afraid to meet an airplane in the air then probably you should not be flying airplanes at all.
The destruction of enemy aircraft on the ground - the easiest way to victory, and do not say that it is not sport or not fair, it's within the rules, ok? And on the skill of the pilots, some of our vulchers you better in the air does not occur, and when he saw them at 6 immediately press Alt-F2. Although half of the red it always does.


Why are the red pilots no vulching?????
Because they do not know how to do it ;)

335th_GRAthos
Dec-22-2011, 09:03
Because they do not know how to do it ;)

Good point! My question is: Can you take a red plane and start vulching the blue bases with the same success????
Because I only see you flying blue planes when vulching...

And about the good flying skills of the blue vulcher pilots, ehem, I do not know of any good flying skills! I do not remember seeing a blue vulcher pilot fighting another plane in the air...:Grin:
No complaints, vulching is legal and within the rules, absolutely no problem with that...
I just say you simply do not kow how to fight in the air. On the other side your ground fighting tactics are magnificent!

~S~

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-22-2011, 09:12
The destruction of enemy aircraft on the ground - the easiest way to victory, and do not say that it is not sport or not fair, it's within the rules, ok? And on the skill of the pilots, some of our vulchers you better in the air does not occur, and when he saw them at 6 immediately press Alt-F2. Although half of the red it always does.


Because they do not know how to do it ;)

Well, Grathos, there's our answer. It's a mindset. Why do a small number of players continually vulch helpless aircraft? Because they can.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-22-2011, 09:36
Why do a small number of players continually vulch helpless aircraft? Because they can not do anything better than this.

Yeah, I admit defeat...

Blue Blighter
Dec-22-2011, 10:21
Because the red fighters they allow it. Fact that 95% of the fights are over airfields in England, the RAF handed the sky over the English Channel to the enemy, while they themselves are circling over their bases. Pitiful sight ..

335th_GRAthos
Dec-22-2011, 10:28
Fact that 95% of the fights are over airfields in England, the RAF handed the sky over the English Channel to the enemy, while they themselves are circling over their bases. Pitiful sight ..

Which fights over airfields are you talking about!!!!?????
You are shooting them all while they are at the ground :roflmao:

=vit_unit=
Dec-22-2011, 11:28
I agree that spit2 is not dangerous as it was at first time. Team work, altitude advantage and that's it, job is done. But meetings with spits2 in equal conditions is not so funny for the most blue players as vaulching isn't funny for the red ones.
Let me explain why blue blocks the red fields more then red players in my opinion. It's not just mindset.
First of all it is the plane bf with good engine for diving and powerful canons. One shot and enemy pilot is ready. Especially it looks great when plane moves on the ground (landing or taking off) and attacker comes to it at high speed and dangerous angle for itself. What did one tell about skills? I saw many times that some bf pilot just crashed on the ground doing that thang. U need to be well-prepared for ground attack.
Everything I've red in these posts above is in fighters point of view. But what to do to multigoal fighters? Here comes second reason of blocking the fields. It's motivation. why should one assault ai ground targets if the result of this attacks doesn't bring any success to him or his team? It doesn't help to accomplish the mission. Wait a minute... There is no mission at all. This question is not for ATAG team but to developers. It's all about stability of the game. We need real goal to fight for. Anyway it's not interesting to attack ai ground/naval targets.
It's the same if I say to fighters: "if u can't find any live air targets go to other server or offline and shot down all bots u can find there". Is it not so boring?
And third. The age of knight tournament and honor was gone. Or it's in other server like duel))

I'm as many of blue pilots not biggest vaulcher as many reds think. But I will block the fields as many of even ATAG's do if it's still interesting in certain situation. Or if it helps to complete the mission or if it looks great like in movie or something like that. The reasons? Look above)) I hope it's not look childish or something. And it's little drop of understanding between blue and red teams.
Regards
vit_unit

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-22-2011, 12:10
Because the red fighters they allow it. Fact that 95% of the fights are over airfields in England, the RAF handed the sky over the English Channel to the enemy, while they themselves are circling over their bases. Pitiful sight ..

I tend to agree with that point - the best tactic is to stop you getting to England and bounce you feet wet a short distance from N Calais where there is no flak and the fire extinguisher trick fails to work as you intend . Not sure it's a 'pitiful sight' in they way you mean but the severe drop in fps once the fire extinguishers are set off and added to the flak bursts certainly is.

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-22-2011, 12:18
But meetings with spits2 in equal conditions is not so funny for the most blue players as vaulching isn't funny for the red ones.

In other words, we get away with vulching because it is the only way to "win". So long as the Spit 2 remains limited it will be a vulchfest. Add more Spit 2's and Blues will leave because they will lose the ability to "win". (It's the old "I don't like the way you guys play so I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality). The Merry Band of Vulching Underachievers. (Sarcasm on::dthumb: - you guys are the best on the server!)

Try staying alive = win, dead = lose: just as in real life.

I like colander's proposal that stats will be reset at death or a bail behind enemy lines. It would probably curtail much of this issue.



As a Red pilot I've been taking off from airfields inland and not giving the vulchers anything low to shoot at. I hit the coast with 14-16k feet altitude, perfect for intercepting bombers or dog fighting in a Rotol. Not too many Blues at altitude as well, some ... just not many.

Just my take on things (not that anyone listens to me, right Snapper ;) LOL )

~S~

Deacon

=vit_unit=
Dec-22-2011, 12:53
Add more Spit 2's and Blues will leave because they will lose the ability to "win". (It's the old "I don't like the way you guys play so I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality).

Not agree. More spits2's won't help much. And just for information: 3-4 km is not so high altitude)) I guess someone didn't see bf's working in pairs at this or higher altitude. In other hand I saw lonely red contacts at this altitude only. Strange... Maybe these guys (blue and red) are not so many.... By the way that's about balls and going home and the way we play can be said for the red side too lol. Just listen to this phrase lol.

Little_D
Dec-22-2011, 13:08
Hi gents,

for me the vulching is for players that cant fight and win a doghfight. Easyer targets you cant find as an starting or landing plane, but where is the yes i get him after a good long fight or even when you managed to kill an enemy after an B&Z atack from 5k down to 3k?

most of the time when i fly on ATAG i need to search long for an enemy and in the chat i read 10 to 20 times in my flight ... was killed on the ground. thats boring, because you never finde an enemy. they are most of the time get killed before take off and do the startproduce over and over again.

when the vulching blue/red needs to vulch because they cant fight a enemy or special the MK II/109E-4 i would say go and search for an acarde server with icons and everything on.

the MK II is hard and sometimes it piss me off when i see a MK II at same alt in headon and he turn 180 degrees and catch me in 2 minutes after his turn, and i was flying strait or climb a little with 350+ Km/H in the same direction before we go headon, or when he climb with me from 1k to 7k and get me after i make a B&Z atack and missed and i climb out and he follows me. but this is the game in the moment, but you can hold your own in a 109 against a MK II even in a dogfight, sometimes you win and sometimes you only make it home or die.

sorry for my bad english

regards

Little_D

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-22-2011, 13:28
From Snapper (and yes, I'm pretty sure he was being facetious, but again - one can never be too sure where Snapper is concerned ;) )


To help you out, Spitfire IIa's should be made available at EVERY RAF airfield. Fina109lly you'll have an adversary that can actually shoot back! You'll have an adversary that you can't outclimb, can't outdive (well you can still bunt, of course), can't outrun! Sort've like what the Red side has faced since April! Your skills, tactics, and fighting methods will improve rapidly.......and you sure won't be bored!

and from vit


Not agree. More spits2's won't help much.



vit, I'm thinking that you should be careful what you ask for. Can you imagine if they added 5 Spit 2's to be available at each airfield on the Red side? Dear god, there was enough crying about the 5 that were added to ONE airfield. I mean think about it:

"You'll have an adversary that you can't outclimb, can't outdive (well you can still bunt, of course), can't outrun! Sort've like what the Red side has faced since April!"



Sounds like fun right...just like sitting on an airfield having to warm up your engine (where the 109 is start the engine and go) and being killed just sitting there. It has NOTHING to do with tactics. It has NOTHING to do with ability. Additionally, you as a Blue would actually have to fly and earn your kills...there is novel thought (heavy sarcasm).

The 109's I've encountered at altitude have all be very good pilots, extremely proficient...those I see continually vulching I view with contempt. They may be very able and proficient but in the context of the server I view them as cowardly.

Want to fight on even terms? Get high and fight against an adversary who can fight and not just die ingloriously on the ground...:goofy:

Deacon

=vit_unit=
Dec-22-2011, 22:33
Understood... Here are good guys with honor. There are bad guys on other side of barricades (99%). Always. Logging this out.

Robo.
Dec-23-2011, 08:59
Robo thx that u listed me in the row of the biggest vaulchers. I have approximately 10-15 % of all my kills I would say "blocked" planes on the fields. Not too much i guess.

:thumbsup: No problem mate, you're welcome. We've had a conversation about this on the ATAG TS the other day, we even discussed that lengthy fight of ours, you're a nice guy and there is no reason taking that personal :laugh1 that's all OK. I am too lazy to read server stats so I simply named the folks who happened to vulch me a lot (and yes I tried to spawn on different airfield) and it was always you or my good buddy alambash - hence my impression of you being one of these jolly 'friendly visitors'.

On other things like not so good cooperation and tactics of the red pilots, I agree completely as you can see. ;)

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-23-2011, 13:51
Alambash in a Spit2a this afternoon? Wot's he up to?........:eek:

Suprised to see him in Red and giving the Blues a bit of grief but is there more to this than meets the eye, I wonder?

Whatever, Happy Christmas to all.

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-23-2011, 14:03
Alambash in a Spit2a this afternoon? Wot's he up to?........:eek:

Suprised to see him in Red and giving the Blues a bit of grief but is there more to this than meets the eye, I wonder?

Whatever, Happy Christmas to all.

Double Agent? :laugh1

Probably seeing if the Spit II is really all they think it is ;)

Just remember this holiday season, 'tis better to give than to receive :dthumb:

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-23-2011, 14:25
Double post...sorry!

335th_GRAthos
Dec-23-2011, 18:23
Well, there is always something to learn, even in the worst possible situation.

Example:
http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/Alambash.jpg
328

Learning #1
My question is: Can you take a red plane and start vulching the blue bases with the same success????
Because I only see you flying blue planes when vulching...
YES he can... :laugh:


Learning #2
When packing your Xmas presents, always pull your Bf109 back to the hangar :roflmao:




Merry Xmas Alambash, merry Xmas everybody!

:iloveu:


~S~

=vit_unit=
Dec-23-2011, 22:35
Thanks Robo for that u think that way)) Merry Christmas to all u guys!! Although we have this holiday in Russia in Juanary he-he. We tend to celebrate all biggest holidays in the world, just give to us a reason)) just kidding. Anyway see ya in the air soon.:salute:

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-24-2011, 09:39
@=vit_unit=


Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom

Snapper :Grin:

Blue Blighter
Dec-24-2011, 14:08
330

Our best wishes to the server Atag with Christmas and New Year. May you always accompanies good fortune good luck!

Russian gang.

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-24-2011, 15:08
Merry Christmas to you and your family, Blue Blighter!

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-24-2011, 17:30
330

Our best wishes to the server Atag with Christmas and New Year. May you always accompanies good fortune good luck!

Russian gang.

Same to you Blue.

Happy Holidays to all our Russian friends :)

ATAG_WatchMan
Dec-24-2011, 21:32
To everyone who flys on this server, red and blue I wish you the very best this holiday season and hope the new year brings you happiness and joy!


ATAG_WatchMan.

=vit_unit=
Dec-25-2011, 04:19
@=vit_unit=


Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva i s Novim Godom

Snapper :Grin:

Thanke u! Ur Russian is good :dthumb: