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ATAG_Bliss
Dec-14-2011, 15:03
Hi fellas,

It's finally time to get a Bomber Night going. The intent of these missions are to have a teamwork / strategic based atmosphere where the team that works the most effectively together and comes up with a good strategy will win. With that said, this will be open to the public, but it is highly suggested you hop on our TS3 (you can see it in my sig) and get tactical.

The mission features 0,zilch,nada, none AI of any kind (air or ground). The mission is fairly light on the objects as well, in the hopes that can hopefully get over 100 people on and once without any performance problems. It's 1/20th of what we have going on in the main server to give you an idea.

With that said, blues will be attacking and reds defending. There are 4 spread out objectives for blues to bomb all throughout England. Blues will have a 4 hour window to get all the objectives or Reds will win. If Blues win and destroy all the objectives, the map will rotate. Consequently if Reds hold off the blues, after a certain amount of time, reds will successfully win.

This mission will definitely come down to how has the better tactics. I see it coming down to the final objective in a massive engagement, but we'll just have to wait and see ;)

Mission will start Saturday @ 6AM CST (so you Aussies/Kiwi's get the 1st crack at it) and will run throughout the weekend. This mission will be running on our second server, so the 1st one will be unchanged and still available.

Early Planesets:

Reds:

SpitMk1
HurriMk1

Blues:

109E1 (limited to only 15)
G.50
110C7
Stuka

With that said, especially blue pilots, if you've only flown the 109, time to learn some other crates :) I hope to see a bunch of G.50's plowing through!

Here's some screenies to prepare with:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7921/mapmp.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/mapmp.jpg/)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8823/obj1k.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/obj1k.jpg/)

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/4788/obj2i.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/obj2i.jpg/)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3522/obj3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/obj3.jpg/)

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7031/obj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/obj4.jpg/)

Hopefully this goes off without a hitch. Hope you have fun ;)

Special thanks goes to ATAG_Watchman for making this mission for everyone to enjoy!

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-14-2011, 22:30
This will be the last time I'm posting these types of events on 1C. I've never seen soo much Luftwhining in my life. The blues IMO, are going to win 9 out of every 10 times. There's no pleasing everyone, but the rash of crap we got on there for doing this is ridiculous.

Dutch
Dec-15-2011, 07:17
This will be the last time I'm posting these types of events on 1C. I've never seen soo much Luftwhining in my life. The blues IMO, are going to win 9 out of every 10 times. There's no pleasing everyone, but the rash of crap we got on there for doing this is ridiculous.

Yeah, I saw that. It's just the sort of thing that makes my blood boil too.

Having said that, it'd be a shame not to notify the general 1C community because of the highly vocal minority.

Thanks for putting this together chaps, I'll certainly be there at some stage. I might disable the chatbox though, just so's I don't get riled!

P.S. Is the recce Tiger Moth out of the picture now?

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-15-2011, 08:47
This will be the last time I'm posting these types of events on 1C. I've never seen soo much Luftwhining in my life. The blues IMO, are going to win 9 out of every 10 times. There's no pleasing everyone, but the rash of crap we got on there for doing this is ridiculous.

As my dear old Mamma used to say to me, "If you don't stop Luftwhining, I'll give you something to Luftwhine about!". Never made much sense to me back in the day, but now I understand completely.

Is it still too late to change the Red plane set to entirely Spitfire IIa's? :laugh:

ATAG_Torian
Dec-15-2011, 09:25
Is it still too late to change the Red plane set to entirely Spitfire IIa's?

Only if blue is entirely G50s :lolol:

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-15-2011, 11:20
I don't understand the negative response, it's optional given that both servers are available. I am going to have a crack at it at some point over the weekend...it will be diferrent that's for sure and variety is the spice............:dthumb:

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-15-2011, 12:44
Might start to fly the Hurri MkI or Spit MkI on the regular server to get used to it by Saturday morning ;)

GULP:uhoh

ATAG_JTDawg
Dec-15-2011, 13:09
:eek: see no post from me ,well just had to say ,you have to be kidding me!! lol, i'll be there to ,seen what was posted on banana =OMG OMG!!! REALLY

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-15-2011, 14:15
Might start to fly the Hurri MkI or Spit MkI on the regular server to get used to it by Saturday morning ;)

GULP:uhoh

Hmmmm, you're right Deak. It could be really easy frying an engine with only 2-speeds! :eek:

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-15-2011, 15:45
The Spitfire I Pilots Notes (A.P.1565A) states:

Airscrew control.- This aeroplane may be fitted with one of the following airscrew controls: (a) de Havilland two position (b) de Havilland constant speed, or (c) Rotol (35°) constant speed. If constant speed control is fitted the r.p.m. can be adjusted to remain as desired, but within the limits allowed by the airscrew pitch range. If the two position control is fitted on this aeroplane it can also be operated to give various airscrew pitch settings between fine and coarse; this is obtained by slowly moving the control between its range of movement until the desired r.p.m. are obtained. For example, if a full power climb is required, instead of pushing the control into fully coarse pitch as the r.p.m. rise after taking-off, the control should be moved slowly forward until the r.p.m. drop to the maximum permissible for climb (2,600) and then pulled slightly back; this will leave the airscrew pitch at the position which gives these r.p.m. until power begins to drop off with altitude. As the power drops off the r.p.m. can be maintained by again fining the airscrew pitch as required. This in effect will give a similar improvement in performance to that obtained by means of a constant speed airscrew. The operation of varying the airscrew pitch in this manner to suit different conditions of flight will be found quite simple after a little experiment.

From here:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

Knowledge is power :thumbsup:


Way looking forward to the event this weekend!!!!

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-15-2011, 16:45
Noooo!!!

You're not allowed to actually learn your planes before mission starts :Grin:

Very good info, Deacon :thumbsup:

I'm wondering how many pilots new to the 2 speed props are going to do engine over revs and ruin their engine while in combat. Should add a little spice to things.

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-15-2011, 17:25
Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings Deacon but the two speed prop is exactly that, two positions and thats yer lot in CloD. I cut my MP teeth on the two speed prop so it will be like old times again....:uhoh

BlitzPig_EL
Dec-15-2011, 18:56
I will be there.

I'm hoping that at least one of my "Pig" wingmen will be as well.

I was not surprised in the least by the reaction from the Luftwaffe guys. This has been the pattern of their behavior for the entire ten years I have been flying IL2. "I want my big guns or I'm going home". Typical.

Many years ago I was hosting an east front early war scenario on Hyperlobby. Three or for "JG" types came in and demanded that I edit the mission to include the FW 190 D9, as it's "the only plane we fly". I told them it's a 1941 mission and the FW 190D had not even been built yet. They were adamant in chat, so I kicked them all out.

Like I said I was not surprised, but I will never understand that mindset.

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-15-2011, 19:29
Like I said I was not surprised, but I will never understand that mindset.

What, the "it's my ball and I'm playing my way or going home" mentality? :laugh1

ATAG guys, thanks for the set-up. Plane set looks challenging and fun!

~S~

Deacon

*Helo*
Dec-15-2011, 23:15
After having read through the thread, I am sure that I will fly with the Spit I this weekend :happy . The question arises, why would someone fly with the vulnerable Ju-87 to the targets, when there is a much more faster, better armed BF 110-C7 available, which can destroy with its cannon more ground targets than three bombs of the Ju-87. Itґs (the 110) also faster and climbs better then the Stuka.
I would choose a BF 110 C7 if I would raid England and would fly very low and fast in (some would fly through the trees) towards the targets.

So, in order to make this more realistic and in order to satify thos people who have a bomber fetish, why not adding Ju-88 or He-111? If itґs crashing (the game) itґs their problem. I for my part had never any launcher crash in a Stuka, Ju-88 order He-111. Mostly the launcher collapse gets me in the Spitfire.

335th_GRAthos
Dec-16-2011, 02:06
ATAG_Bliss
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by el0375
great news, thank you. I will surely give a try.
may i ask, why arent heinkels and ju 88 s not in? few users or not feasible maybe for the current mission?
my hope , to be honest is that we wont get crashes after 1 hour or so ASAP as the travel distances have been increased. EndQuote

The Ju88's and 111's when flown in formation always cause launcher crashes in our testing. But we've gotten away having huge formations of 110's and Stuka's before. That's the main reason they aren't included.

With the mission very light in objects and with absolutely 0 AI, I think performance will be quite good (even the crashing issue). It was that way in our testing anyhow. Only time will tell, I guess.




~S~

jaydee
Dec-16-2011, 05:24
Havent been able to fly this month,but im rockin up for this one ! Thanks Bliss for puting it all together ! Ill be in my Spit awaiting orders ! ~S~

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-16-2011, 08:32
You have to fly the 2 speed Hurris and Spits as currently modelled to see that they are very poor in terms of climb rate. A Stuka can outclimb it. I don't think that the planesets favour any side - success will be down to tactics and E management. Will be very interesting to see the outcomes.

Dutch
Dec-16-2011, 10:23
Seems there's a fair amount of interest over at Sukhoi!

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=73527

:Grin:

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-16-2011, 10:25
You have to fly the 2 speed Hurris and Spits as currently modelled to see that they are very poor in terms of climb rate. A Stuka can outclimb it. I don't think that the planesets favour any side - success will be down to tactics and E management. Will be very interesting to see the outcomes.

Flew nothing but the MkI Hurri and Spit yesterday and this morning...They're pigs to climb, use caution in the dive.

5 Sorties
2 blown engines
2 bomber (AI) kills
0 landings...

They do not have the speed to escape...EvangeluseE's comment regarding e-management is spot on.

I can't wait until tomorrow morning. I have a feeling I am going to die many many times...LOL. Will be fun though!

ChiefRedCloud
Dec-16-2011, 11:32
I want to commend Bliss and ATAG in general for all his/their hard work. I will do my darndist to be there at one point or another during the weekend.

This being said and haveing read the 1C forums, I would hope that you do not give up on the 1C community as a whole. There will be those factions that will take issue no matter the subject. In these instances, there is no way to make a perfect mission (especially given the nature of what your working with) that would please everyone.

Most of the responses (unless I missed some of the editing out) seemed pro or very positive.

Bliss, you and the guys here at ATAG play a VERY big part in holding this sim community together. So much that often the thanks or acculaise are far and between. But rest assured YOU and ATAG are making a BIG differance.

Keep up the good work. :dthumb:

kapa
Dec-16-2011, 11:34
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

Knowledge is power :thumbsup:

Great link, thx :dthumb:

335th_GRAthos
Dec-16-2011, 14:25
If Blues win and destroy all the objectives, the map will rotate.

How much destruction "destroy all" means?
100% percent of all wagons of the two trains for example?

Is there a way to know if some targets have been destroyed?
I mean with that, I would hate to lurk over the bomber airfield trying to recognise if there is any bomber left (when all have been destroyed already) or, struggling to recognise if any of the damaged trains has any wagons intact.

I do not want to be smart-@ss, it is just previous experience...


~S~

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-16-2011, 15:22
How much destruction "destroy all" means?
100% percent of all wagons of the two trains for example?

Is there a way to know if some targets have been destroyed?
I mean with that, I would hate to lurk over the bomber airfield trying to recognise if there is any bomber left (when all have been destroyed already) or, struggling to recognise if any of the damaged trains has any wagons intact.

I do not want to be smart-@ss, it is just previous experience...


~S~

Hi Grathos,

When you destroy an objective, there will be a server message saying, for instance, "Lewes Train depot at BC31 has been destroyed" followed by a message "Objective 1,2,3,4" etc., has been successfully been destroyed." Sadly there is no FBDj type software out there to recall up % of targets destroyed and so forth. We are working on some type of generated stats stuff, but it is slow going with all the other problems we have.

So the best thing to do if you join mid-mission, is to ask around on TS3. But if you're there during mission start, you'll be apprized of the situation, your objectives throughout the mission.

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-17-2011, 03:14
It is now up!

Here's hoping works ok :inq:

335th_GRAthos
Dec-17-2011, 03:58
Great!

I have to get a better time-zones conversion table...


~S~

ATAG_Bliss
Dec-17-2011, 05:39
Hi Grathos,

We took the password out the last rotation. If we didn't then the server rotation clock (complicated tools to keep the mission rotated etc.,) would have been past the initial start up time.

And I honestly didn't think I'd be up this late :Grin:

335th_GRAthos
Dec-17-2011, 06:35
Watchman, I found it!

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23621


Brief description for one axis autopilot (directional only)

First Gyro Compass has to be set to the same direction that magnetic compass is showing.
Gyro Compass is the one underneath the big 'DaughterCompass' the one with two bands for course and Libelle (BALL Intsrument) integrated.
Set course with the knob on the right of the instrument.
This has to be corrected every now an then. (i.e. at least every 5 min crosscheck gyro with magnetic)
(I dont know wether the need to correct that often isnґt a bug. I think itґs strange behavior, maby someone knows?!)

Desired Course for One axis autopilot has to be set with two-way-switch on left upper side panel labelled L and R.
Course which is set shows on lower gauge of gyro.

Switch on one axis autopilot with switch right underneath the ReVi, switch position 1
Position 2 is unused in Bf110.

Mismatch of steering course and course set with autopilot is shown by instrument labelled 'Kurs' right under ReVi.

Since Plane tends to roll when autopilot is correcting direction with rudder, keeep plane straight with corresponding aileron input.

Corrcet course for winddrift if wind is present.

Switch of with selectorswitch under ReVi prior to landing or manuevering, since autopilot will try to correct cours otherwise.


And the full text for those who have never used the ME110 autopilot setup before (only extracts related to the course autopilot out of the original post):

Redroach
Me 110: 1-axis AP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the second point, I'd really appreciate it if somebody could give me a short introduction for that shiny 1-axis-'course mode' autopilot in the Me110. I'm not really sure how to use the knobs and switches. After 'testing' around rather randomly, I've settled on a course that fit my desired one quite well, but the read-outs were rather awkward:
-Magnetic Compass showed 68° (Yep, I'm aware of magnetic N vs. geographic N )
-'Daughter' Compass showed 71° (might be irrelevant with respect to the AP)
-upper dial in the AP controls showed 59°
-lower dial in the AP controls showed 55°
So, somewhere 'in the middle', I came home with that, but I'd like to understand it a bit better. It seems to be a neat tool, especially for the long channel transits


#2 06-16-2011, 12:28 PM
W32Blaster
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brief description for one axis autopilot (directional only)

First Gyro Compass has to be set to the same direction that magnetic compass is showing.
Gyro Compass is the one underneath the big 'DaughterCompass' the one with two bands for course and Libelle (BALL Intsrument) integrated.
Set course with the knob on the right of the instrument.
This has to be corrected every now an then. (i.e. at least every 5 min crosscheck gyro with magnetic)
(I dont know wether the need to correct that often isnґt a bug. I think itґs strange behavior, maby someone knows?!)

Desired Course for One axis autopilot has to be set with two-way-switch on left upper side panel labelled L and R.
Course which is set shows on lower gauge of gyro.

Switch on one axis autopilot with switch right underneath the ReVi, switch position 1
Position 2 is unused in Bf110.

Mismatch of steering course and course set with autopilot is shown by instrument labelled 'Kurs' right under ReVi.

Since Plane tends to roll when autopilot is correcting direction with rudder, keeep plane straight with corresponding aileron input.

Corrcet course for winddrift if wind is present.

Switch of with selectorswitch under ReVi prior to landing or manuevering, since autopilot will try to correct cours otherwise.



#4 06-17-2011, 03:03 AM
Blackdog_kt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the autopilot, Blaster is mostly correct and as with all gyroscope operate instruments, the gyrocompass needs adjustment every 15 minutes or so, or after violent maneuvers.

I only have two other observations to add. First, the big red "disengage AP" button seems to be a temporary switch: the AP is disengaged when you hold it down, but as soon as you release it the AP snaps back into action. This is probably only for minor corrections to the tune of "oops, i'm slowly drifting into the 88s i'm supposed to be escorting, let's temporarily disengage the AP and maneuver wide of them".

I use keys that i mapped to the "course autopilot next/previous" functions to really turn it off for good.

Second, there's an offset of between 5 to 7 degrees between the master gyrocompass and the desired/commanded heading compass card.

For example, let's say i'm flying a heading of 100 degrees back to base and i want to engage the AP and stretch my legs a bit to relax. I look at the magnetic compass, place the mouse cursor over it and it reads 100 degrees. I then turn the master gyrocompass to 100 degrees.

To make sure the aircraft won't drift once i engage the AP, i also turn the desired/commanded heading compass card (what i want the AP to maintain) to 100 degrees.

The AP works on a correlation between these two, it completely ignores both the magnetic compass (right hand side of the cockpit) and the magnetic repeater compass and its course finder (the compass rose with the airplane silhouette in the middle disc).

So, the way to do it is:
1) Read magnetic heading (add the magnetic deviation if you want to be really precise).
2) Input magnetic heading into master gyrocompass
3) Input the same heading into the desired heading compass
4) Engage the AP.

At this point the aircraft should maybe drift left and right a bit until the gyroscopes stabilize, but it should for the most part stabilize with all relevant instruments (magnetic compass and repeater, master gyrocompass and desired/commanded heading compass card) indicating 100 degrees.

Well, it doesn't. It actually banks the aircraft until it's 5-7 degrees off each and every time. Not a big deal because it's always the same amount roughly so you can account for it when setting it (i just give it a wrong desired heading by 5-7 degrees the opposite way so it evens out), i just don't know if this is realistic behaviour or a bug.

In the end, if for example i want to go north the instrument face looks like this:
------N--
----N----

When it should look like this:
----N----
----N----

I don't know if this can be zeroed out by maneuvering "against" the AP, as it's perfectly possible to use the controls while the AP it's doing its thing.
__________________


#5 06-17-2011, 03:31 AM
Redroach
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, I've mostly found out things by myself in the meantime, but still, useful info!
Regarding that 5-7 deg. offset: It's actually 10.11deg (west), as was stated in some patch notes by luthier. I cross-checked this value with an US geomagnetic Survey site and it's fairly accurate for 1940 england.
This means that, in order to account for magnetic declination (offset between geomagnetic north, which is what the mag. compass shows, and geographic north, which is used in maps), you have to set your gyro compass (as well as the daughter compass, if you want it to show true north) 10 deg. forward with respect to the magnetic compass - then, the 1-a-AP works correctly, at least for me.



Thank you for the great afternoon ATAGs, I had a long time to practice long distance navigation, it was a bit of a challenge, thanks Watchman for the help, thanks Tomcat for the air support offer, it was great experience to go, find the target, get in - get out and return back to France safe (despite that Spit that wanted to go after my ... ;) )

The biggest strategic mission I ever played was in IL2 with 120players on line (Finland map). Even with so many players it was not easy to find bandits to dogfight with.
I have the feeling that this map is huge compared to Finland, especially because it is a lot more difficult to visually identify enemies in CoD.

~S~

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-17-2011, 08:56
~S~ All,

Bliss, Watchman, ATAG Squad...great time flying your bomber night map.

I have just a few thoughts, I am not complaining!!!

1. Spit 1/Hurri 1 unable to keep up with 110 & 110 climbs away (especially as pilots are using auto-pilot. much like 1946 the autopilot function will give full advantage as the aircraft will not overheat - gaming the game). There is no way a 110 should outpace any Spit/Hurri in level flight let alone climb...especially if the Spit/Hurri comes in with an advantage.

2. No radar for defenders...not historic. I know radar is not available on dedi servers yet...maybe some AWACs like on the regular server.

3. One base for Red fighters closer to the coast.

Other than those 3 items I think that it was great fun! Will be back for more later ;-)

~S~

Deacon

335th_GRAthos
Dec-17-2011, 14:35
much like 1946 the autopilot function will give full advantage as the aircraft will not overheat - gaming the game


Is autopilot function available on the ATAG server ????? :eek:

Or, do you refer to the course-autopilot that I explained above? (Which if it is the case you have no idea what you are writting about)

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-17-2011, 15:11
~S~

Your correct, I don't know squat about flying Blue planes. I do know that ATAG_Snapper chased your 110 across the map today. No way his Spit should not have caught you...and you were the one discussing using auto pilot, so you tell me.

Deacon

335th_GRAthos
Dec-17-2011, 16:20
I hope that you live in The Neverlands Deacon, because this is the only country you can legaly consume what you are taking....

Where on earth did I write that the course autopilot "will give full advantage as the aircraft will not overheat - gaming the game"

I post a full thread of explanations how the course autopilot works and this is what your brain crastalized out of all this?
Go visit a doctor because no aiplane manual will help you...
And if you deduct from what I wrote in chat that I was (cheating) using the course autopilot you have no %%&&/(()* idea about how a bomber flies, red, blue, purple or whatever else you have knowledge of....

But as always, "half knowledge is worse than no knowledge".

AND do not run to me crying that the ME110 flies better than your Spit with the wooden propeller. Maybe it is the case, amybe nit, I have not the facts in front of me to tell you...
What I am nailing you about is that you claim you understood that the course-autopilot is a "cheat" and this is absolut rubbish!


sincerely,

335th_GRAthos

ATAG_Snapper
Dec-17-2011, 17:21
OK, gentlemen, put your knives away.

I know you both as honourable men; no one was cheating.

Yes, I chased Grathos in his 110 with my Spitfire I and couldn't catch him. He flew by me at Lewes after his attack there - he was heading NNE and I was heading S when he went by at a high speed. I had to turn almost a full 180 degrees to give chase. I opted to fly level rather than climb to try to overtake him. I was continually adjusting my engine settings and trim, but mostly kept my prop at Coarse pitch, throttle adjusted to approx 4 - 6 lbs boost, rpms between 2800 and 2900. I could've pushed it higher but didn't want to blow the engine. My speed at ~ 2000 ft altitude was, I think, 240/250 IAS. My gas tank was approx 75% full (didn't take a reading at that time).

Although I could see the 110 slowly outpacing me, I continued chasing him in a northly direction thinking he may be planning to strafe Redhill or one of the other targets. I was hoping that this would slow him down enough for me to intercept him. However, he seemed to be gradually changing his course more eastward (towards the Estuary), so I throttled down at remained on CAP over Redhill.

It was only as I was terminating my chase that I saw Grathos had been addressing me on Chat -- hadn't noticed earlier. I believe he mentioned taking some damage from AAA and didn't wish to risk a low level attack as a result. Meanwhile, I was cursing my Spit I for not being fast enough, but that's it. :)

So, let's let it go as a misunderstanding and please move on. There will be other battles......

Snapper

ATAG_Deacon
Dec-17-2011, 17:23
Dude,

Get over yourself. I never said you were cheating. I said that there is no way a 110 should pull away from ANY Spit. I did also say that you guys were utilizing autopilot based on your comments in the chat bar.

I also claimed that I know NOTHINabout flying Blue a/c...I did not personally attack you or anyone else.

Maybe, just maybe you should grow up. I was trying to provide constructive input to make the Bomber Night event more competitive and enjoyable for all.

~S~

Deacon

335th_GRAthos
Dec-17-2011, 18:59
...However, he seemed to be gradually changing his course more eastward (towards the Estuary)

using the course autopilot in order to avoid making abrupt movements and lose speed... :Grin:


Look Deacon, as I said "half knowledge is worse than no knowlede at all".
A clever man who does not know, keeps his mouth shut.
You did not and not only that you wrote "that the course autopilot will give full advantage as the aircraft will not overheat - gaming the game".

You do not accuse me of cheating but you accuse me for using unrealistic things because your brain drew the false conclusions and you decided not to keep your mouth shut but rather publish your half-knowledge....and everybody who reads this forum may think that you are authority on ME110 making such bold statements and will start thinking that everybody who flies a ME110 is a natural born cheaterІ
Now you accuse me for misbehaving because I tell you straight back what I think of what you write.

If you seed winds do not be surprised when you harvest storms.

Topic closed for me

The rest in the air...

~S~

Post edit:
I have the golden rule to never write more than twice about the same pile of rubbish but, this is just too good to miss
ІSo hero, here is your first victim...
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28174&page=36 (last post)

.......
D. Now you guys are gaming the game and using the autopilot on the Bf 110 to achieve speeds without overheat that are totally unrealistic.
Go cry me a river.
Congrats, you became the worldwide expert of the (non-existing) ME110 "autopilot no-overheat cheating trick" now :(

Dutch
Dec-17-2011, 19:38
Woah chaps; there's no sense in arguing over something that's down to the FM in Cliffs.

It's just the way it is at the moment.

Yes, a spit should be able to catch a 110 eventually, but they were very fast.

Back in the old Sturmovik days, I used to love flying an I-16 against 109's.

They'd all boom and zoom, boom and zoom, and I'd just fly tight circles into the direction of their attack.

My record was 5 x 109's in one sortie.

We just have to treat Spit mk1's like I-16's.

Heh, heh! :Grin:

BlitzPig_EL
Dec-17-2011, 21:57
The Spitfire Mk. I was 20mph faster than the Bf 110 in real life.

Apparently in the sim this is not the case.

I flew a few sorties this afternoon on the Bomber server.

The RAF has no chance of winning.

None.

The Blue Ju 87s and Bf 110s all came in low flying in the trees where they cannot be seen and simply and methodically pick off all the ground targets, while the 109s boom and zoom with impunity because the Mk. I RAF birds climb like a Cessna 150 with a full load of fat girls.

I got one kill simply by flying over to France and catching a Bf 110 on finals with his gear and flaps down. Currently flying for Red is like fighting Me 262s with P-40s.

NO FUN.

Dutch
Dec-17-2011, 22:08
Oh El, you can't be serious!

I was on a fair bit today, off and on, and had a blast!

When I took off from Maidstone and helped you out with the 109, it really felt like I was there.

Bloody good stuff!! :Grin: :thumbsup:

[FFCW]Urizen
Dec-18-2011, 00:20
Thanks ATAG for this event, i had fun :thumbsup:

BlitzPig_EL
Dec-18-2011, 10:21
Dutch,

I'm not speaking about the immersive qualities of the sim. In that area CLOD has no equal.


The issue at hand is the current state of the FMs, to wit, while all the aircraft, save the Spit IIa and perhaps the Bf 110 are severly undermodeled, the Mk I RAF aircraft are at a far worse disadvantage than any of the Axis aircraft, except the G.50. Their laughable climb rates and low speeds make any attempt to climb a total losing proposition. And even if you start co-alt with a 109 it is impossible to catch them except by surprise. You know this.

So in the bomber night scenario we have a set piece battle that the RAF have no possibility to win. I know that Bliss' intentions were well thought out, but, in all matters military, once the shooting starts, the plans go out the window.

Placing the bases for both sides so far away was done to get all sides to climb for realistic altitudes. What really happened? The axis attack forces stayed low in the trees, taking advantge of the visibility issue we currently have. Cannot blame them, I'd do the same. So now the RAF is forced to fly low to find the bombers, leaving the sky clear for the 109s to attack the British fighters with total impunity.

It's a lose-lose situation for the RAF. If we stay low to stop the bombers we get cut to pieces by the fighters, if we go high to stop the escorts, the bombers get to their targets.

It would take 50 RAF fighters to cover the target areas properly on a map of that size.

Did the RAF win any of the missions yesterday?

I at least want to play a scenario where I have a chance to come out on top. As it stands that is not possible.

Dutch
Dec-18-2011, 12:02
Well yes, Red did win a few of the earlier missions, but I think it was more to do with the Blues needing to get used to where the targets are, rather than superbly worked out defence strategy! :Grin:

Don't get me wrong, the FM's all need serious work. No a/c can achieve it's operational ceiling for instance, including the one causing such controversy.

What I meant was that the undercooked FM's don't stop us having fun with what we've got.

For instance, I discovered yesterday that using one degree down trim on the Spit I really helps with maintaining airspeed.

I also discovered that I couldn't catch either 109's or 110's once they put their noses down to run home. But making them run home is just as effective as shooting them down when it comes down to preventing them hitting their target/escorting the bombers. So as a defensive interceptor, job done!

I also chased a 109 all the way from Tunbridge Wells to Eastchurch, with him pulling away every step of the way, but caught him as soon as he decided to make a strafing run on the aerodrome.

Long winded but immensely satisfying! :thumbsup:

BlitzPig_EL
Dec-18-2011, 16:13
Dutch,

I agree that it can be fun, and I do have my moments.

It's good to have the teamwork we do have, even if I am not used to flying with most of you.

That, coupled with the environmental immersion are indeed the best aspects of the sim right now.

I suppose I am whining a bit here, but I am frustrated with the performance aspects, and I just cannot bring myself to fly for Jerry. Just how I am.

Dutch
Dec-18-2011, 16:26
I agree that it can be fun, and I do have my moments, and I just cannot bring myself to fly for Jerry. Just how I am.

Well that goes for both of us mate! :Grin:

ATAG_EvangelusE
Dec-18-2011, 20:41
I think this mission has a lot of potential and I enjoyed it. :thumbsup:

In its present format, it is a very large map, involves long flight times and needs a lot of players to do it justice. I have to say that, for the first time, I really felt guilty (seriousley) for bringing a BF110 down en route as the player probably spent a long time getting close to his destination. I noticed that he quit (which didn't suprise me) - maybe he felt that going through the whole procedure again was just too much. Reducing flight times for the Axis bomb carrying ac may help or have the option of a few airstarts if a player wants.

Running this type of mission every so often should appeal to the serious 'simmers' and squadrons - and hopefully get large numbers taking part regularly as did with Farbers mission nights.

jaydee
Dec-19-2011, 01:13
Had two really good sorties on Bomber Night,each about 70 mins without any launchers either! Teamed up with Catseye and Stompy,we flew cover over Redhill.We knew two of the blue objectives were achieved so we reckoned we'd be getting inbound soon.After chasing off a number of intruders and protecting Redhill (with no kills or losses) Torian came in from the north and caught us napping ! ~S~ Torian.....one thing I did learn,we all need to get to know the map and improve our navigation..Knowing where you are "roughly" is not good enough on this big map !...First im gonna bind some keys to compass/giro so I dont spend 10 mins looking down at the compass,trying to set it up after combat..Secondly im going to have some "joyflights" offline getting to know the names of towns etc........Thanks ATAG,Bliss,Catseye,Stompy,Torian and all involved...Ive had the best online flying ive ever had ! Jaydee ~S~

Jimbop
Dec-19-2011, 07:00
Great fun - thanks guys!

Jugdriver
Dec-19-2011, 11:31
Great time guys, Thanks. I am hoping there is going to be some stats going up for the bomber weekend?

Thanks again!

JD
AKA_MattE

ATAG_Torian
Dec-21-2011, 16:24
After chasing off a number of intruders and protecting Redhill (with no kills or losses) Torian came in from the north and caught us napping ! ~S~ Torian.....one thing I did learn, we all need to get to know the map and improve our navigation..Knowing where you are "roughly" is not good enough on this big map

~S~ Jaydee,
That was a good mission. Normally I love flying fighters but getting a handle on
the Stuka and the 110 was immensly satisfying even with the long flying time to
target. U are absolutely right about learning the map. Makes for a more efficient
defence/attack. Oh, and thx for letting me take out the target before turning me
into a lawn dart :thumbsup: