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Silver_Dragon
Mar-08-2014, 05:35
Update #30 WW2

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/770277

Friday March 07, 2014 Development Update – We're Getting THere
6 comments Liked 17 likes
These regular updates are really hard to do when you’re in pre-alpha. If there’s one thing I learned during this project, it’s that there really was a very good reason for the industry standard to announce and market projects after they’re ready and playable.
I yearn for the days of yore when I could just boot up a game, set up a quick scenario, snap a bunch of action screenshots, and be done with a Friday update in an hour.

Actually, I yearn for the day of even yore-er yore. Seems like it was just yesterday when I could say, hey, I’d like to fly plane X. And a month or so later I’d be flying it. It’s only been, what, 10 years since that was the case. Of course, there’s no going back to that. Even the simplest flying games of today probably can’t do an airplane in a month. I myself can barely stand to look, much less to fly, airplanes from 10 years ago. But I am still a bit sad about all the work that goes into the extra quality. If you were to draw a graph on work hours vs simulation quality, the line grows exponentially.

And while you’re here, close but not quite at the self-imposed 100%, progress is very hard to show.

First of all, here’s where we are with the backer rewards section. We really tried to have it operational last Friday, but internal testing showed that once again we had a logical flaw for larger reward tiers with more than one copy of a stock plane selected. Had to drastically redo the flyable selection this week. Lost all the prettiness and ended up with a painfully simple design, but at least it works.

I guess the page is ready for the world, we just have one final task: to merge the kickstarter and paypal database of backers with the DCS site member list, the hardest part of which is dealing with accounts for backers that do not currently have a digitalcombatsimulator.com user profile.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1976976_727278637294027_1851558044_n.jpg

On the aircraft front, we finally do have a delay on one aircraft model, the P-47 external. We had a long unpleasant saga with trying to get high-quality original blueprints for it last summer. That took longer than anticipated, and what we got was not as thorough as we needed. Once we finally got into animating all the bits and pieces of the aircraft, we’ve realized that our data was not good enough, and that some parts would go out of alignment when moved. We had to go chasing pixels, and start fitting parts back together, animating, measuring, refitting, and trying again. This, again, goes back to my earlier point about standards. In an older game, we’d never care that an aileron slightly clips through the wing when fully deflected. We wouldn’t care that a gear strut does a physically impossible warp a few inches to the side in order to move to the down and locked position. And so with DCS, we have to go and make sure every movement is absolutely perfect, spending more time on these details than on the entire model in an older project.

The 109, our flagship, the pinnacle of our hopes and desires, is still a bit shiny everywhere. Not nearly as bad as two weeks ago, but it still fluctuates. Graphics programmers are slowly but surely moving DCS over to DX11, and it’s a process.

The choice for me is extremely painful - show nothing, or show something that does not look great.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/1975227_727278627294028_997149189_n.jpg
Shiny!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1795525_727278630627361_861539642_n.jpg
From switch to shining switch

The cockpit programming is complete. All the gauges and switches and systems are working, except, annoyingly from the point of a Friday update, you cannot see it in the cockpit yet. We can see it all in debug mode. However DCS cockpits are done in a peculiar complex way, different from what we’re used to from before, and a programmer cannot simply tell a certain needle to rotate a certain number of degrees. As it is during most of the process, the cockpit mesh is a monolith. In our previous projects, we would simply make each moving part a separate object with a pivot, and the programmer would move that object about that pivot when needed. In DCS, we have to do a lot more work on cockpit animations, doing them manually, and we’re still waiting for them to be complete.

In the meantime, all the gauges gauge, and the switches operate all the systems, the radio talks, the AFN2 guides you to airfields (the only objects at the moment you can guide to), everything works, and this would have been a great time to make a cockpit procedures video, except you can only see all of that happening in debug readouts and not in the cockpit 3D model.

So, since I’ve made too many overly optimistic predictions in the past, I won’t this time. I will only say that it’s very frustrating for me to write these kind of updates, that I really want to have a fully functional plane I can take for a spin and screenshot away, and that we really are tantalizingly close.

SC/JG_Kaiser
Mar-08-2014, 06:28
As indicated by Luthier, a log in to DCS World will be required to use DCS WWII.
I have a kickstarer ID and log in but no DCS World ID or log in, what should I do?
Stand bye for instructions or??
Can anyone tell me if it is possible now to link a DCS K/S log to a DCS World log in.
Curious.

Catseye
Mar-08-2014, 16:00
As indicated by Luthier, a log in to DCS World will be required to use DCS WWII.
I have a kickstarer ID and log in but no DCS World ID or log in, what should I do?
Stand bye for instructions or??
Can anyone tell me if it is possible now to link a DCS K/S log to a DCS World log in.
Curious.

My understanding is that you will have to set yourself in DCS. Go to the DCS website and download DCS world including the free aircraft available. Then wait for the universe to unfold as WWII gets linked eventually.

Hope this is what you mean . . . .

heinkill
Mar-08-2014, 17:20
At least, though slowly, it seems things are being worked on. There was a FW190 in game 'out of cockpit' screenie shown on ED Facebook this week too.

I wish Shevchenko would do himself a favour though and appoint someome who can manage his communications. The peeved Kickstarter backers are really dominating the dialogue.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Mar-08-2014, 17:26
At least, though slowly, it seems things are being worked on. There was a FW190 in game 'out of cockpit' screenie shown on ED Facebook this week too.

I wish Shevchenko would do himself a favour though and appoint someome who can manage his communications. The peeved Kickstarter backers are really dominating the dialogue.

+1

I am sure he could find a volunteer to do this... there are lots of well intentioned enthusiasts who would be willing to help. He should make use of the community.

---

Re. the developments... I am sure this will be quite an extraordinarily good sim, the level of detail on the aircraft promises to be something special.

Catseye
Mar-08-2014, 20:44
+1

I am sure he could find a volunteer to do this... there are lots of well intentioned enthusiasts who would be willing to help. He should make use of the community.

---

Re. the developments... I am sure this will be quite an extraordinarily good sim, the level of detail on the aircraft promises to be something special.

Hi Buzzsaw,
Agreed!

From the explanation Ilya is making on the hours spent on design in the last update it looks like he's having to conform to DCS "P-51" standards. This can only be good in the long run as it certainly defines targets and milestones for him to reach regarding functionality and graphics detail.

It can only be good for us the Community.

Cats . . .

Old_Canuck
Mar-10-2014, 21:22
+1

I am sure he could find a volunteer to do this... there are lots of well intentioned enthusiasts who would be willing to help. He should make use of the community.

---

Re. the developments... I am sure this will be quite an extraordinarily good sim, the level of detail on the aircraft promises to be something special.

I nominate Snapper the mega-mediator (if someone hasn't already).

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-11-2014, 13:18
I nominate Snapper the mega-mediator (if someone hasn't already).

Thanks, O.C., but I can just see it now:

Ilya:

"What do you mean the Spitfire development has been moved up? What are you telling people??? And it's the Spit nine, NOT the fourteen! And what is this 150 octane you keep prattling about? Geez, we gave you animated trim wheels. Isn't that enough? Clearly this isn't working out. YOU'RE FIRED!!!!"

Ilya is a nice guy. He deserves better. Hell, not even I would hire me! LOL

Old_Canuck
Mar-12-2014, 13:58
Was so certain you were the best choice. I've seen careers stopped in their tracks before but never before they even start. Oh well, I hear Obama might be looking for a new job soon.

Archie
Mar-12-2014, 15:48
Ilya is his own worst enemy unfortunately. I think MP offered all sorts of help and was blanked.

9./JG52_J-HAT
Mar-12-2014, 16:55
Yeah, sometimes I also don't get some of Luthier's reactions (or lack of, actually). I am layed back waiting for this game to come out but sometimes I can't stop thinking, why doesn't he just come in, say a couple of words and make everyone stop speculating? It's so easy nowadays when you are connected all the time!

Kling
Mar-12-2014, 19:18
Its the same with every game they produce. Complete silence. No feedback at all. Was the same for Clod while it still was in 1Cs hands. Complete out of sync with the community. No communication... Maybe its a russian mentality thing I dont know.
Im hoping for the best. But its for this exact reason I did not sponsor DCSWW2. I was afraid of another project being developed in silence... and this is what seemed to happened. again...

Anyway lets hope for the best!

Chuck_Owl
Mar-12-2014, 20:03
On one side, I see that there are some updates, but on the other hand, they are few and far between. I will not give up on DCS WWII for a very simple reason. I learned to love the DCS P-51D Mustang more than any other aircraft I've ever flown in a simulator. If there's a chance the Spitfire, Bf 109, FW 190 and P-47 will be done with such a level of detail and FM fidelity, I'm willing to take that chance. Whatever the cost :)

gavagai
Mar-13-2014, 07:18
Its the same with every game they produce. Complete silence. No feedback at all. Was the same for Clod while it still was in 1Cs hands. Complete out of sync with the community. No communication...

There is communication, but only one-way communication. I think they know they've screwed up the rewards, and now they're just going to close their ears and work on releasing the product.

What I don't understand is why the insistence on being infallible? "I'm sorry" could go a long way here.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Mar-13-2014, 14:13
There is communication, but only one-way communication. I think they know they've screwed up the rewards, and now they're just going to close their ears and work on releasing the product.

What I don't understand is why the insistence on being infallible? "I'm sorry" could go a long way here.

WTF are you talking about. The rewards aren't screwed up, they are simply making an interface for them on the website. They were going to have it ready by Friday, but the original design didn't have enough spots for Kickstarter donations that come with more than one version of the same plane. Either way they don't have a way to link kickstarter rewards to the DCS store yet.

Chivas
Mar-13-2014, 15:10
Not sure why all the angst. The development has just started. There are no guarantees with kickstarter, its just a way for developers to access funds when they aren't available from normal sources. You are taking the risk instead of the financial institutions. Show a modicum of patience.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-13-2014, 15:24
Either way they don't have a way to link kickstarter rewards to the DCS store yet.

Specially if, like me, you don't even have a DCS account :)

gavagai
Mar-13-2014, 19:21
WTF are you talking about. The rewards aren't screwed up, they are simply making an interface for them on the website. They were going to have it ready by Friday, but the original design didn't have enough spots for Kickstarter donations that come with more than one version of the same plane. Either way they don't have a way to link kickstarter rewards to the DCS store yet.

P-51 keys were supposed to go to backers months ago. $1000 backers were supposed to have skype chats with the devs. That's what I'm talking about.

heinkill
Mar-14-2014, 03:03
WTF are you talking about. The rewards aren't screwed up, they are simply making an interface for them on the website. They were going to have it ready by Friday, but the original design didn't have enough spots for Kickstarter donations that come with more than one version of the same plane. Either way they don't have a way to link kickstarter rewards to the DCS store yet.

They promised P51 keys last year, many backers say they have not received them and queries about them go unanswered
They promised FW190D in Feb 2012, not delivered, no news on when
They promised alpha access in Feb 2012, not delivered, no news on when
They promised personal updates to high roller backers, not delivered

Anything I missed?

ATAG_Slipstream
Mar-14-2014, 03:34
They promised P51 keys last year, many backers say they have not received them and queries about them go unanswered
They promised FW190D in Feb 2012, not delivered, no news on when
They promised alpha access in Feb 2012, not delivered, no news on when
They promised personal updates to high roller backers, not delivered

Anything I missed?

Yes! Are you sure they promised all that in Feb 2012? :)

Foul Ole Ron
Mar-14-2014, 04:30
I can understand the gripe over the no Skype chats and for those backers who are still waiting for the backer rewards to be sorted out. But in fairness he's apologised more than once about the rewards delay in the updates he'd put out and there clearly seems to be progress being made there finally. People who are saying there's been total silence on the matter are just plain wrong. Hopefully that'll get done in the next week or so as that'll remove the only issue I've noticed. His communication is fine other than that with decent updates every 1-2 weeks.

And anybody who takes the dates advertised in KS campaigns as cast iron promises is setting themselves up for a disappointment. I've backed Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen and Project Eternity and they're all months behind where they said they would be in their KS rewards. The only flight sim developers I've seen be able to stick to a timetable more or less is BOS and a lot of that is down to the fact that they're working with something that's a complete known quantity to them so project elapsed times can be accurately estimated and there's far less chance of running into some unknown roadblock which can really kill your estimates.

gavagai
Mar-14-2014, 06:13
Yes, we agree that software development isn't easy. But again, some of this is stuff that they could do right now. Skype chats with the $1000 backers could start now. P-51 keys for DCS World could happen now. I don't think anyone in his right mind resents them for being behind schedule with software development (except for heinkill?).:)

9./JG52_J-HAT
Mar-14-2014, 07:11
I'm one of those P-51 keys request went unanswered guys. I tried emailing, PM ovr at ED and also over at KS. No response. Nothing. I am a Matrix backer in with $120, which means I had to choose my key. I didn't choose it right after KS end, but months later. I ended up buying a key at the DCS store for $15 when it went on sale.

Other than that, I am just waiting for things to come. It#s released when it's released.

My personal opinion is he (or someelse) should be more active to prevent the damage some users do with speculation though.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Mar-14-2014, 13:07
The P51 keys went out a while ago, they should have been emailed to the email address linked to your kickstarter account in October of last year.

Did you send an email them to say your key wasn't sent?

I don't know much of anything about the skype calls, I'm not that high of a roller ;) I agree that the skype calls ought to happen, but maybe they aren't starting with them yet since there isn't much to show, no idea. They really should do them though.

Wags posted a long time ago why Fw190 development was delayed. The flight model programmer was working on rotor physics for helicopters. I'm not sure if the Fw190 has much to do with Ilya's team. The development was started well before Ilya came with the WW2 project. It's about the same as blaming them for the Edge engine not coming out yet.

What they need is a moderator to deal with the community instead of the lead programmer doing that ontop of organizing the project.

9./JG52_J-HAT
Mar-14-2014, 13:55
Hey Squirrel, sure did. As I wrote, email, PM at ED and at KS. No response. But I blame the matrix tiers, which don't necessarily mean you want the key. The only way to get the key with the matrix tiers will be with the homepage. The keys were sent automatically to the people who had it as part of their reward (the initial tiers).

But it doesn't matter. I'll wait for the game to be released.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-14-2014, 14:00
But it doesn't matter. I'll wait for the game to be released.

Me too, just hope I'm not asked to buy it again :)

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Mar-14-2014, 14:11
Well that's still crappy, you should get your key for P51

Here is the contact list from the email I got with my key.


For problems with this order, please contact luthier1@gmail.com

For any other problems:
Primary support contact: http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support
Secondary support contact: team@eagle.ru
User to user support: http://forums.eagle.ru

9./JG52_J-HAT
Mar-14-2014, 14:49
Hehe yeah, rewards are in but the game isn't :)

Thanks Squirrel! I think I sent it to the gmail one. I ended up buying the Mustang because I wanted to try taking off and landing it and couldn't wait for Luthier's response. I then sent him another email saying I didn't need it anymore. I hope he doesn't process his emails at a point and says oh, I missed this one. I'd have to give the second key away to someone.

I'll probably pick one of the manuals instead when the website is done. Oh man, all those planes at the same level of detail as the P-51... starting the Me 262 up... hmmmm

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Mar-14-2014, 14:50
Unless you got one of the backer profiles that say "Plus any (1-4) Extras" For that tier you probably have to wait for them to integrate a system between Kickstarter and DCS Store.

Atreides
Mar-17-2014, 18:23
In the end I hope we will have a great successor to ClOD in DCS WW2. :jump: One thing that does concern me however is the "weekly" updates seem to be released more irregular lately :td2:

heinkill
Mar-19-2014, 13:50
In the end I hope we will have a great successor to ClOD in DCS WW2. :jump: One thing that does concern me however is the "weekly" updates seem to be released more irregular lately :td2:

Actually as long as the project hasn't gone underground, I prefer infrequent updates to stupid ones like 'here are screenshots of the MSWord document I am working on'. Better to save it for when you do have something to say.

On the other hand, the total lack of contact with the people who gave you their money and are trying to contact you...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/comments

...that is just plain dumb.

More than plain dumb. It is monumentally dumb.

Broodwich
Mar-19-2014, 19:24
Actually as long as the project hasn't gone underground, I prefer infrequent updates to stupid ones like 'here are screenshots of the MSWord document I am working on'. Better to save it for when you do have something to say.

On the other hand, the total lack of contact with the people who gave you their money and are trying to contact you...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/comments

...that is just plain dumb.

More than plain dumb. It is monumentally dumb.

Some people never learn

hnbdgr
Mar-20-2014, 05:34
Is anyone else starting to think there's something fishy about the lack of updates...? Has anything been posted anywhere that I might have missed?

Foul Ole Ron
Mar-20-2014, 15:26
He posts an update every 1-2 weeks. I'd expect one tomorrow as last one was 2 weeks ago. Nothing wrong with an update every 2 weeks in fairness. He just needs to sort out the KS rewards and things are fine as far as I'm concerned.